Discussion:
[Goanet] : India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
Jerry Fernandes
2008-03-16 19:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Venantius./ Sachin

Thanks for your write-ups to my query. I appreciate both your honest views. I also thank Mario for his reply. But then the main issue is the survey. As has been pointed by Mario, who maybe feels that the survey?s opinion may have been given after, intermingling with the Indian community in USA. The Indian community must have been the silent ambassadors to promote India in such a large way, although now they themselves being American citizens. I wonder what could be the percentage of Indians who have already settled in USA.

It could also be due to cheap medical treatment that is available in India compared to American prices, which has made India a more popular destination? Just my opinion. Well whatever may be the reason, good to know that the negative conceptions the Americans had about India, are gone. I hope this conception will not rise again due to the present news of Goa which seems to be doing the rounds now a days.

Cheers

Jerry

From: "Venantius Pinto" <venantius.pinto at gmail.com>
Dear Sachin,
It would have helped if you asked specifically which part you did not
understand. I must say that the my grammar in my post is not the
finest. But other than I believe the ideas do come across. In all
probability no one else may respond, so here is what I meant. The
thread as you know began with Jerry Fernandes' query reproduced below.
When that question was asked by JF, "Dear Netters
So what has brought about this sudden rise in the interest of India
amongst the Americans? Is there any truth in this news?" [WASHINGTON
(Agencies)], I responded; answering your vide, "The report indicates
the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated,
one should take it at face value" I do not need to say it is
manipulated, but since you ask questions in tandem -- SP: "And if one
says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming
to such a conclusion," I shall point the general rational behind my
response, and not specific details. I do sense that you feel I am
being irresponsible towards India.

We give our opinions (as if they matter) on a plethora of issues in
this forum. I gave my opinion based on how I viewed JFs question. I
could have made little of it, but too it seriously, and cared to
explain, but also giving examples that force one to think for oneself
-- whether one wishes to do so or not. This is where it begins. I
began by looking briefly at the word "popular" (CAPPED by me in the
excerpt from Jerry Fernandes below), by making an analogy between the
qualities (largely superficial) between a human and extrapolating
those notions (but seeing them deeply and relating them to the country
as an being) onto country -- in this case India. What I am doing is
attempting to nail down why India is considered as being popular in
the imagination/analysis/or survey of the WASHINGTON Agencies. I also
said, "There are good sides to India, but the USA is comfortable with
an India which is assiduously following its lead on many
issues...(economically motivated) This as well as my examples should
be a response to your point, "There are indeed many faults in the
Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the
broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey
have done."

I am not allowing myself to be held in thrall by the pronouncement of
the "popular" for two reasons. First of all, although an Indian I am
not impressed with notions of popularity, and secondly having lived a
life of observation (as have others too) -- the media is the media,
and being the media, seen it(the media) puts out news, including
facts, largely based on the interests of power brokers. So my response
must be seen within this duality.
India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
WASHINGTON (Agencies): India is the sixth most POPULAR country in the US, with 69 per cent of the Americans having a positive image about it, while Pakistan finds itself among the 10 most unpopular nations, according to a new poll. Of 22 countries rated in Gallup's 2008 World Affairs survey, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and Japan win favour with at least 80 per cent of Americans. The top four is followed by Israel at 71 per cent. India ties with France at the sixth spot for the positive image. [GT]
So my picture, is a broad picture, and will always be a broad picture.
My expressive temper may come across as harsh, but it aims for
precision and the splintering of obfuscation or pithy statements,
which we inadvertently absorb into our social identities. India is
complex, and I do understand that, but India like any other country
has its interests and protects or protests based on how our Mandarins
(very important term here) see themselves, themselves as India, and
India as in themselves. So what I am saying is, the label of "popular"
has a plurality of connotations; we should look beyond the denotations
of "popular." I see Indians as reasonably proud people, but I do not
see Indian politicians from the same mould. This is what I am saying.
I am not banging on the proud swadeshi Indian. People like me will
always make connections and analogies that I can only hope others may
see. These are not done casually, are not tormented by any stretch of
imagination, but may just be a bit more visually forceful than the
comfort level in this forum.

Now JF may respond by at least saying he got the gist of what I am
saying, or that it is pure gibberish.

venantius j pinto
From: Sachin Phadte <sachinphadte at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
I do not understand what Venantius Pinto is trying to say in context of the subject line. The report indicates the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated, one should take it at face value. And if one says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming to such a conclusion.
There are indeed many faults in the Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey have done.
Sachin Phadte
________________________________
Dear Jerry,
There are many sides to this popularity consensus, which is a
consensus to begin with. But should Indians even care, and who are
those that do concern themselves with such pronouncements in the
media. To be popular means you have something -- in the case of
humans; one is vivacious, elegant, a great pair of legs, and so on and
so forth. They all allude and promise things. With countries, as we
are embraced within late late capitalism -- being popular may have to
do with economic aspects of an economy that enthralls the largest
self-souped up super power. I happen to live in it so see the humor as
well as the depth of the thought process, which is quite deep really,
disarming and illusory. Pure maya really! There are good sides to
India, but the USA is comfortable with an India which is assiduously
following its lead on many issues, unlike other countries less than a
fifth of our size. We do not berate the US (and certainly not
publicly) on anything. We are opening economy in ways that gives
meaning to the existences of the stewards of capital, to the
constantly presumed engorging middle-class, to mirroring their
concepts and constructing images of Protestant asceticism where making
money using a shared model while playing pretense at trickle-down, to
not really making ourselves clear in no uncertain terms about the
relevance of the oil pipeline from Iran, and more than occasionally
doing the shastang to appease which we do not even proverbially do
anymore to our elders. See the track records of parties who have been
in power to see this clearly. We also have the numbers to keep the
surviving financial model continue thriving. Hey, Indians are even
beginning to get enamoured with 18 carat gold. What can you not like
about that. That's free money -- practically. Fibreglass cows will be
next. If an F-16 "strayed" over India, it would certainly not be sent
back in crates as the Chinese did. But despite such acts of
belligerence and a fascinating insult to itself,they still love the
Chinese. Why -- undoubtedly for what China is willing to do to satiate
the bellies of capitalism, their own and that of the USA.

Other than my two bits, it would always be good to get a personal take
from an economist, a stockbroker, one playing the market, or perhaps
even a Goa assimilated bhanya. But these are vain hopes as usual.

venantius

?
Jerry Fernandes
2008-03-16 19:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Venantius./ Sachin

Thanks for your write-ups to my query. I appreciate both your honest views. I also thank Mario for his reply. But then the main issue is the survey. As has been pointed by Mario, who maybe feels that the survey?s opinion may have been given after, intermingling with the Indian community in USA. The Indian community must have been the silent ambassadors to promote India in such a large way, although now they themselves being American citizens. I wonder what could be the percentage of Indians who have already settled in USA.

It could also be due to cheap medical treatment that is available in India compared to American prices, which has made India a more popular destination? Just my opinion. Well whatever may be the reason, good to know that the negative conceptions the Americans had about India, are gone. I hope this conception will not rise again due to the present news of Goa which seems to be doing the rounds now a days.

Cheers

Jerry

From: "Venantius Pinto" <venantius.pinto at gmail.com>
Dear Sachin,
It would have helped if you asked specifically which part you did not
understand. I must say that the my grammar in my post is not the
finest. But other than I believe the ideas do come across. In all
probability no one else may respond, so here is what I meant. The
thread as you know began with Jerry Fernandes' query reproduced below.
When that question was asked by JF, "Dear Netters
So what has brought about this sudden rise in the interest of India
amongst the Americans? Is there any truth in this news?" [WASHINGTON
(Agencies)], I responded; answering your vide, "The report indicates
the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated,
one should take it at face value" I do not need to say it is
manipulated, but since you ask questions in tandem -- SP: "And if one
says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming
to such a conclusion," I shall point the general rational behind my
response, and not specific details. I do sense that you feel I am
being irresponsible towards India.

We give our opinions (as if they matter) on a plethora of issues in
this forum. I gave my opinion based on how I viewed JFs question. I
could have made little of it, but too it seriously, and cared to
explain, but also giving examples that force one to think for oneself
-- whether one wishes to do so or not. This is where it begins. I
began by looking briefly at the word "popular" (CAPPED by me in the
excerpt from Jerry Fernandes below), by making an analogy between the
qualities (largely superficial) between a human and extrapolating
those notions (but seeing them deeply and relating them to the country
as an being) onto country -- in this case India. What I am doing is
attempting to nail down why India is considered as being popular in
the imagination/analysis/or survey of the WASHINGTON Agencies. I also
said, "There are good sides to India, but the USA is comfortable with
an India which is assiduously following its lead on many
issues...(economically motivated) This as well as my examples should
be a response to your point, "There are indeed many faults in the
Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the
broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey
have done."

I am not allowing myself to be held in thrall by the pronouncement of
the "popular" for two reasons. First of all, although an Indian I am
not impressed with notions of popularity, and secondly having lived a
life of observation (as have others too) -- the media is the media,
and being the media, seen it(the media) puts out news, including
facts, largely based on the interests of power brokers. So my response
must be seen within this duality.
India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
WASHINGTON (Agencies): India is the sixth most POPULAR country in the US, with 69 per cent of the Americans having a positive image about it, while Pakistan finds itself among the 10 most unpopular nations, according to a new poll. Of 22 countries rated in Gallup's 2008 World Affairs survey, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and Japan win favour with at least 80 per cent of Americans. The top four is followed by Israel at 71 per cent. India ties with France at the sixth spot for the positive image. [GT]
So my picture, is a broad picture, and will always be a broad picture.
My expressive temper may come across as harsh, but it aims for
precision and the splintering of obfuscation or pithy statements,
which we inadvertently absorb into our social identities. India is
complex, and I do understand that, but India like any other country
has its interests and protects or protests based on how our Mandarins
(very important term here) see themselves, themselves as India, and
India as in themselves. So what I am saying is, the label of "popular"
has a plurality of connotations; we should look beyond the denotations
of "popular." I see Indians as reasonably proud people, but I do not
see Indian politicians from the same mould. This is what I am saying.
I am not banging on the proud swadeshi Indian. People like me will
always make connections and analogies that I can only hope others may
see. These are not done casually, are not tormented by any stretch of
imagination, but may just be a bit more visually forceful than the
comfort level in this forum.

Now JF may respond by at least saying he got the gist of what I am
saying, or that it is pure gibberish.

venantius j pinto
From: Sachin Phadte <sachinphadte at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
I do not understand what Venantius Pinto is trying to say in context of the subject line. The report indicates the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated, one should take it at face value. And if one says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming to such a conclusion.
There are indeed many faults in the Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey have done.
Sachin Phadte
________________________________
Dear Jerry,
There are many sides to this popularity consensus, which is a
consensus to begin with. But should Indians even care, and who are
those that do concern themselves with such pronouncements in the
media. To be popular means you have something -- in the case of
humans; one is vivacious, elegant, a great pair of legs, and so on and
so forth. They all allude and promise things. With countries, as we
are embraced within late late capitalism -- being popular may have to
do with economic aspects of an economy that enthralls the largest
self-souped up super power. I happen to live in it so see the humor as
well as the depth of the thought process, which is quite deep really,
disarming and illusory. Pure maya really! There are good sides to
India, but the USA is comfortable with an India which is assiduously
following its lead on many issues, unlike other countries less than a
fifth of our size. We do not berate the US (and certainly not
publicly) on anything. We are opening economy in ways that gives
meaning to the existences of the stewards of capital, to the
constantly presumed engorging middle-class, to mirroring their
concepts and constructing images of Protestant asceticism where making
money using a shared model while playing pretense at trickle-down, to
not really making ourselves clear in no uncertain terms about the
relevance of the oil pipeline from Iran, and more than occasionally
doing the shastang to appease which we do not even proverbially do
anymore to our elders. See the track records of parties who have been
in power to see this clearly. We also have the numbers to keep the
surviving financial model continue thriving. Hey, Indians are even
beginning to get enamoured with 18 carat gold. What can you not like
about that. That's free money -- practically. Fibreglass cows will be
next. If an F-16 "strayed" over India, it would certainly not be sent
back in crates as the Chinese did. But despite such acts of
belligerence and a fascinating insult to itself,they still love the
Chinese. Why -- undoubtedly for what China is willing to do to satiate
the bellies of capitalism, their own and that of the USA.

Other than my two bits, it would always be good to get a personal take
from an economist, a stockbroker, one playing the market, or perhaps
even a Goa assimilated bhanya. But these are vain hopes as usual.

venantius

?
Jerry Fernandes
2008-03-16 19:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Venantius./ Sachin

Thanks for your write-ups to my query. I appreciate both your honest views. I also thank Mario for his reply. But then the main issue is the survey. As has been pointed by Mario, who maybe feels that the survey?s opinion may have been given after, intermingling with the Indian community in USA. The Indian community must have been the silent ambassadors to promote India in such a large way, although now they themselves being American citizens. I wonder what could be the percentage of Indians who have already settled in USA.

It could also be due to cheap medical treatment that is available in India compared to American prices, which has made India a more popular destination? Just my opinion. Well whatever may be the reason, good to know that the negative conceptions the Americans had about India, are gone. I hope this conception will not rise again due to the present news of Goa which seems to be doing the rounds now a days.

Cheers

Jerry

From: "Venantius Pinto" <venantius.pinto at gmail.com>
Dear Sachin,
It would have helped if you asked specifically which part you did not
understand. I must say that the my grammar in my post is not the
finest. But other than I believe the ideas do come across. In all
probability no one else may respond, so here is what I meant. The
thread as you know began with Jerry Fernandes' query reproduced below.
When that question was asked by JF, "Dear Netters
So what has brought about this sudden rise in the interest of India
amongst the Americans? Is there any truth in this news?" [WASHINGTON
(Agencies)], I responded; answering your vide, "The report indicates
the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated,
one should take it at face value" I do not need to say it is
manipulated, but since you ask questions in tandem -- SP: "And if one
says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming
to such a conclusion," I shall point the general rational behind my
response, and not specific details. I do sense that you feel I am
being irresponsible towards India.

We give our opinions (as if they matter) on a plethora of issues in
this forum. I gave my opinion based on how I viewed JFs question. I
could have made little of it, but too it seriously, and cared to
explain, but also giving examples that force one to think for oneself
-- whether one wishes to do so or not. This is where it begins. I
began by looking briefly at the word "popular" (CAPPED by me in the
excerpt from Jerry Fernandes below), by making an analogy between the
qualities (largely superficial) between a human and extrapolating
those notions (but seeing them deeply and relating them to the country
as an being) onto country -- in this case India. What I am doing is
attempting to nail down why India is considered as being popular in
the imagination/analysis/or survey of the WASHINGTON Agencies. I also
said, "There are good sides to India, but the USA is comfortable with
an India which is assiduously following its lead on many
issues...(economically motivated) This as well as my examples should
be a response to your point, "There are indeed many faults in the
Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the
broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey
have done."

I am not allowing myself to be held in thrall by the pronouncement of
the "popular" for two reasons. First of all, although an Indian I am
not impressed with notions of popularity, and secondly having lived a
life of observation (as have others too) -- the media is the media,
and being the media, seen it(the media) puts out news, including
facts, largely based on the interests of power brokers. So my response
must be seen within this duality.
India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
WASHINGTON (Agencies): India is the sixth most POPULAR country in the US, with 69 per cent of the Americans having a positive image about it, while Pakistan finds itself among the 10 most unpopular nations, according to a new poll. Of 22 countries rated in Gallup's 2008 World Affairs survey, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and Japan win favour with at least 80 per cent of Americans. The top four is followed by Israel at 71 per cent. India ties with France at the sixth spot for the positive image. [GT]
So my picture, is a broad picture, and will always be a broad picture.
My expressive temper may come across as harsh, but it aims for
precision and the splintering of obfuscation or pithy statements,
which we inadvertently absorb into our social identities. India is
complex, and I do understand that, but India like any other country
has its interests and protects or protests based on how our Mandarins
(very important term here) see themselves, themselves as India, and
India as in themselves. So what I am saying is, the label of "popular"
has a plurality of connotations; we should look beyond the denotations
of "popular." I see Indians as reasonably proud people, but I do not
see Indian politicians from the same mould. This is what I am saying.
I am not banging on the proud swadeshi Indian. People like me will
always make connections and analogies that I can only hope others may
see. These are not done casually, are not tormented by any stretch of
imagination, but may just be a bit more visually forceful than the
comfort level in this forum.

Now JF may respond by at least saying he got the gist of what I am
saying, or that it is pure gibberish.

venantius j pinto
From: Sachin Phadte <sachinphadte at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
I do not understand what Venantius Pinto is trying to say in context of the subject line. The report indicates the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated, one should take it at face value. And if one says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming to such a conclusion.
There are indeed many faults in the Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey have done.
Sachin Phadte
________________________________
Dear Jerry,
There are many sides to this popularity consensus, which is a
consensus to begin with. But should Indians even care, and who are
those that do concern themselves with such pronouncements in the
media. To be popular means you have something -- in the case of
humans; one is vivacious, elegant, a great pair of legs, and so on and
so forth. They all allude and promise things. With countries, as we
are embraced within late late capitalism -- being popular may have to
do with economic aspects of an economy that enthralls the largest
self-souped up super power. I happen to live in it so see the humor as
well as the depth of the thought process, which is quite deep really,
disarming and illusory. Pure maya really! There are good sides to
India, but the USA is comfortable with an India which is assiduously
following its lead on many issues, unlike other countries less than a
fifth of our size. We do not berate the US (and certainly not
publicly) on anything. We are opening economy in ways that gives
meaning to the existences of the stewards of capital, to the
constantly presumed engorging middle-class, to mirroring their
concepts and constructing images of Protestant asceticism where making
money using a shared model while playing pretense at trickle-down, to
not really making ourselves clear in no uncertain terms about the
relevance of the oil pipeline from Iran, and more than occasionally
doing the shastang to appease which we do not even proverbially do
anymore to our elders. See the track records of parties who have been
in power to see this clearly. We also have the numbers to keep the
surviving financial model continue thriving. Hey, Indians are even
beginning to get enamoured with 18 carat gold. What can you not like
about that. That's free money -- practically. Fibreglass cows will be
next. If an F-16 "strayed" over India, it would certainly not be sent
back in crates as the Chinese did. But despite such acts of
belligerence and a fascinating insult to itself,they still love the
Chinese. Why -- undoubtedly for what China is willing to do to satiate
the bellies of capitalism, their own and that of the USA.

Other than my two bits, it would always be good to get a personal take
from an economist, a stockbroker, one playing the market, or perhaps
even a Goa assimilated bhanya. But these are vain hopes as usual.

venantius

?
Jerry Fernandes
2008-03-16 19:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Venantius./ Sachin

Thanks for your write-ups to my query. I appreciate both your honest views. I also thank Mario for his reply. But then the main issue is the survey. As has been pointed by Mario, who maybe feels that the survey?s opinion may have been given after, intermingling with the Indian community in USA. The Indian community must have been the silent ambassadors to promote India in such a large way, although now they themselves being American citizens. I wonder what could be the percentage of Indians who have already settled in USA.

It could also be due to cheap medical treatment that is available in India compared to American prices, which has made India a more popular destination? Just my opinion. Well whatever may be the reason, good to know that the negative conceptions the Americans had about India, are gone. I hope this conception will not rise again due to the present news of Goa which seems to be doing the rounds now a days.

Cheers

Jerry

From: "Venantius Pinto" <venantius.pinto at gmail.com>
Dear Sachin,
It would have helped if you asked specifically which part you did not
understand. I must say that the my grammar in my post is not the
finest. But other than I believe the ideas do come across. In all
probability no one else may respond, so here is what I meant. The
thread as you know began with Jerry Fernandes' query reproduced below.
When that question was asked by JF, "Dear Netters
So what has brought about this sudden rise in the interest of India
amongst the Americans? Is there any truth in this news?" [WASHINGTON
(Agencies)], I responded; answering your vide, "The report indicates
the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated,
one should take it at face value" I do not need to say it is
manipulated, but since you ask questions in tandem -- SP: "And if one
says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming
to such a conclusion," I shall point the general rational behind my
response, and not specific details. I do sense that you feel I am
being irresponsible towards India.

We give our opinions (as if they matter) on a plethora of issues in
this forum. I gave my opinion based on how I viewed JFs question. I
could have made little of it, but too it seriously, and cared to
explain, but also giving examples that force one to think for oneself
-- whether one wishes to do so or not. This is where it begins. I
began by looking briefly at the word "popular" (CAPPED by me in the
excerpt from Jerry Fernandes below), by making an analogy between the
qualities (largely superficial) between a human and extrapolating
those notions (but seeing them deeply and relating them to the country
as an being) onto country -- in this case India. What I am doing is
attempting to nail down why India is considered as being popular in
the imagination/analysis/or survey of the WASHINGTON Agencies. I also
said, "There are good sides to India, but the USA is comfortable with
an India which is assiduously following its lead on many
issues...(economically motivated) This as well as my examples should
be a response to your point, "There are indeed many faults in the
Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the
broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey
have done."

I am not allowing myself to be held in thrall by the pronouncement of
the "popular" for two reasons. First of all, although an Indian I am
not impressed with notions of popularity, and secondly having lived a
life of observation (as have others too) -- the media is the media,
and being the media, seen it(the media) puts out news, including
facts, largely based on the interests of power brokers. So my response
must be seen within this duality.
India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
WASHINGTON (Agencies): India is the sixth most POPULAR country in the US, with 69 per cent of the Americans having a positive image about it, while Pakistan finds itself among the 10 most unpopular nations, according to a new poll. Of 22 countries rated in Gallup's 2008 World Affairs survey, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and Japan win favour with at least 80 per cent of Americans. The top four is followed by Israel at 71 per cent. India ties with France at the sixth spot for the positive image. [GT]
So my picture, is a broad picture, and will always be a broad picture.
My expressive temper may come across as harsh, but it aims for
precision and the splintering of obfuscation or pithy statements,
which we inadvertently absorb into our social identities. India is
complex, and I do understand that, but India like any other country
has its interests and protects or protests based on how our Mandarins
(very important term here) see themselves, themselves as India, and
India as in themselves. So what I am saying is, the label of "popular"
has a plurality of connotations; we should look beyond the denotations
of "popular." I see Indians as reasonably proud people, but I do not
see Indian politicians from the same mould. This is what I am saying.
I am not banging on the proud swadeshi Indian. People like me will
always make connections and analogies that I can only hope others may
see. These are not done casually, are not tormented by any stretch of
imagination, but may just be a bit more visually forceful than the
comfort level in this forum.

Now JF may respond by at least saying he got the gist of what I am
saying, or that it is pure gibberish.

venantius j pinto
From: Sachin Phadte <sachinphadte at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
I do not understand what Venantius Pinto is trying to say in context of the subject line. The report indicates the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated, one should take it at face value. And if one says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming to such a conclusion.
There are indeed many faults in the Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey have done.
Sachin Phadte
________________________________
Dear Jerry,
There are many sides to this popularity consensus, which is a
consensus to begin with. But should Indians even care, and who are
those that do concern themselves with such pronouncements in the
media. To be popular means you have something -- in the case of
humans; one is vivacious, elegant, a great pair of legs, and so on and
so forth. They all allude and promise things. With countries, as we
are embraced within late late capitalism -- being popular may have to
do with economic aspects of an economy that enthralls the largest
self-souped up super power. I happen to live in it so see the humor as
well as the depth of the thought process, which is quite deep really,
disarming and illusory. Pure maya really! There are good sides to
India, but the USA is comfortable with an India which is assiduously
following its lead on many issues, unlike other countries less than a
fifth of our size. We do not berate the US (and certainly not
publicly) on anything. We are opening economy in ways that gives
meaning to the existences of the stewards of capital, to the
constantly presumed engorging middle-class, to mirroring their
concepts and constructing images of Protestant asceticism where making
money using a shared model while playing pretense at trickle-down, to
not really making ourselves clear in no uncertain terms about the
relevance of the oil pipeline from Iran, and more than occasionally
doing the shastang to appease which we do not even proverbially do
anymore to our elders. See the track records of parties who have been
in power to see this clearly. We also have the numbers to keep the
surviving financial model continue thriving. Hey, Indians are even
beginning to get enamoured with 18 carat gold. What can you not like
about that. That's free money -- practically. Fibreglass cows will be
next. If an F-16 "strayed" over India, it would certainly not be sent
back in crates as the Chinese did. But despite such acts of
belligerence and a fascinating insult to itself,they still love the
Chinese. Why -- undoubtedly for what China is willing to do to satiate
the bellies of capitalism, their own and that of the USA.

Other than my two bits, it would always be good to get a personal take
from an economist, a stockbroker, one playing the market, or perhaps
even a Goa assimilated bhanya. But these are vain hopes as usual.

venantius

?
Jerry Fernandes
2008-03-16 19:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Venantius./ Sachin

Thanks for your write-ups to my query. I appreciate both your honest views. I also thank Mario for his reply. But then the main issue is the survey. As has been pointed by Mario, who maybe feels that the survey?s opinion may have been given after, intermingling with the Indian community in USA. The Indian community must have been the silent ambassadors to promote India in such a large way, although now they themselves being American citizens. I wonder what could be the percentage of Indians who have already settled in USA.

It could also be due to cheap medical treatment that is available in India compared to American prices, which has made India a more popular destination? Just my opinion. Well whatever may be the reason, good to know that the negative conceptions the Americans had about India, are gone. I hope this conception will not rise again due to the present news of Goa which seems to be doing the rounds now a days.

Cheers

Jerry

From: "Venantius Pinto" <venantius.pinto at gmail.com>
Dear Sachin,
It would have helped if you asked specifically which part you did not
understand. I must say that the my grammar in my post is not the
finest. But other than I believe the ideas do come across. In all
probability no one else may respond, so here is what I meant. The
thread as you know began with Jerry Fernandes' query reproduced below.
When that question was asked by JF, "Dear Netters
So what has brought about this sudden rise in the interest of India
amongst the Americans? Is there any truth in this news?" [WASHINGTON
(Agencies)], I responded; answering your vide, "The report indicates
the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated,
one should take it at face value" I do not need to say it is
manipulated, but since you ask questions in tandem -- SP: "And if one
says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming
to such a conclusion," I shall point the general rational behind my
response, and not specific details. I do sense that you feel I am
being irresponsible towards India.

We give our opinions (as if they matter) on a plethora of issues in
this forum. I gave my opinion based on how I viewed JFs question. I
could have made little of it, but too it seriously, and cared to
explain, but also giving examples that force one to think for oneself
-- whether one wishes to do so or not. This is where it begins. I
began by looking briefly at the word "popular" (CAPPED by me in the
excerpt from Jerry Fernandes below), by making an analogy between the
qualities (largely superficial) between a human and extrapolating
those notions (but seeing them deeply and relating them to the country
as an being) onto country -- in this case India. What I am doing is
attempting to nail down why India is considered as being popular in
the imagination/analysis/or survey of the WASHINGTON Agencies. I also
said, "There are good sides to India, but the USA is comfortable with
an India which is assiduously following its lead on many
issues...(economically motivated) This as well as my examples should
be a response to your point, "There are indeed many faults in the
Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the
broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey
have done."

I am not allowing myself to be held in thrall by the pronouncement of
the "popular" for two reasons. First of all, although an Indian I am
not impressed with notions of popularity, and secondly having lived a
life of observation (as have others too) -- the media is the media,
and being the media, seen it(the media) puts out news, including
facts, largely based on the interests of power brokers. So my response
must be seen within this duality.
India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
WASHINGTON (Agencies): India is the sixth most POPULAR country in the US, with 69 per cent of the Americans having a positive image about it, while Pakistan finds itself among the 10 most unpopular nations, according to a new poll. Of 22 countries rated in Gallup's 2008 World Affairs survey, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and Japan win favour with at least 80 per cent of Americans. The top four is followed by Israel at 71 per cent. India ties with France at the sixth spot for the positive image. [GT]
So my picture, is a broad picture, and will always be a broad picture.
My expressive temper may come across as harsh, but it aims for
precision and the splintering of obfuscation or pithy statements,
which we inadvertently absorb into our social identities. India is
complex, and I do understand that, but India like any other country
has its interests and protects or protests based on how our Mandarins
(very important term here) see themselves, themselves as India, and
India as in themselves. So what I am saying is, the label of "popular"
has a plurality of connotations; we should look beyond the denotations
of "popular." I see Indians as reasonably proud people, but I do not
see Indian politicians from the same mould. This is what I am saying.
I am not banging on the proud swadeshi Indian. People like me will
always make connections and analogies that I can only hope others may
see. These are not done casually, are not tormented by any stretch of
imagination, but may just be a bit more visually forceful than the
comfort level in this forum.

Now JF may respond by at least saying he got the gist of what I am
saying, or that it is pure gibberish.

venantius j pinto
From: Sachin Phadte <sachinphadte at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
I do not understand what Venantius Pinto is trying to say in context of the subject line. The report indicates the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated, one should take it at face value. And if one says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming to such a conclusion.
There are indeed many faults in the Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey have done.
Sachin Phadte
________________________________
Dear Jerry,
There are many sides to this popularity consensus, which is a
consensus to begin with. But should Indians even care, and who are
those that do concern themselves with such pronouncements in the
media. To be popular means you have something -- in the case of
humans; one is vivacious, elegant, a great pair of legs, and so on and
so forth. They all allude and promise things. With countries, as we
are embraced within late late capitalism -- being popular may have to
do with economic aspects of an economy that enthralls the largest
self-souped up super power. I happen to live in it so see the humor as
well as the depth of the thought process, which is quite deep really,
disarming and illusory. Pure maya really! There are good sides to
India, but the USA is comfortable with an India which is assiduously
following its lead on many issues, unlike other countries less than a
fifth of our size. We do not berate the US (and certainly not
publicly) on anything. We are opening economy in ways that gives
meaning to the existences of the stewards of capital, to the
constantly presumed engorging middle-class, to mirroring their
concepts and constructing images of Protestant asceticism where making
money using a shared model while playing pretense at trickle-down, to
not really making ourselves clear in no uncertain terms about the
relevance of the oil pipeline from Iran, and more than occasionally
doing the shastang to appease which we do not even proverbially do
anymore to our elders. See the track records of parties who have been
in power to see this clearly. We also have the numbers to keep the
surviving financial model continue thriving. Hey, Indians are even
beginning to get enamoured with 18 carat gold. What can you not like
about that. That's free money -- practically. Fibreglass cows will be
next. If an F-16 "strayed" over India, it would certainly not be sent
back in crates as the Chinese did. But despite such acts of
belligerence and a fascinating insult to itself,they still love the
Chinese. Why -- undoubtedly for what China is willing to do to satiate
the bellies of capitalism, their own and that of the USA.

Other than my two bits, it would always be good to get a personal take
from an economist, a stockbroker, one playing the market, or perhaps
even a Goa assimilated bhanya. But these are vain hopes as usual.

venantius

?
Jerry Fernandes
2008-03-16 19:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Venantius./ Sachin

Thanks for your write-ups to my query. I appreciate both your honest views. I also thank Mario for his reply. But then the main issue is the survey. As has been pointed by Mario, who maybe feels that the survey?s opinion may have been given after, intermingling with the Indian community in USA. The Indian community must have been the silent ambassadors to promote India in such a large way, although now they themselves being American citizens. I wonder what could be the percentage of Indians who have already settled in USA.

It could also be due to cheap medical treatment that is available in India compared to American prices, which has made India a more popular destination? Just my opinion. Well whatever may be the reason, good to know that the negative conceptions the Americans had about India, are gone. I hope this conception will not rise again due to the present news of Goa which seems to be doing the rounds now a days.

Cheers

Jerry

From: "Venantius Pinto" <venantius.pinto at gmail.com>
Dear Sachin,
It would have helped if you asked specifically which part you did not
understand. I must say that the my grammar in my post is not the
finest. But other than I believe the ideas do come across. In all
probability no one else may respond, so here is what I meant. The
thread as you know began with Jerry Fernandes' query reproduced below.
When that question was asked by JF, "Dear Netters
So what has brought about this sudden rise in the interest of India
amongst the Americans? Is there any truth in this news?" [WASHINGTON
(Agencies)], I responded; answering your vide, "The report indicates
the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated,
one should take it at face value" I do not need to say it is
manipulated, but since you ask questions in tandem -- SP: "And if one
says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming
to such a conclusion," I shall point the general rational behind my
response, and not specific details. I do sense that you feel I am
being irresponsible towards India.

We give our opinions (as if they matter) on a plethora of issues in
this forum. I gave my opinion based on how I viewed JFs question. I
could have made little of it, but too it seriously, and cared to
explain, but also giving examples that force one to think for oneself
-- whether one wishes to do so or not. This is where it begins. I
began by looking briefly at the word "popular" (CAPPED by me in the
excerpt from Jerry Fernandes below), by making an analogy between the
qualities (largely superficial) between a human and extrapolating
those notions (but seeing them deeply and relating them to the country
as an being) onto country -- in this case India. What I am doing is
attempting to nail down why India is considered as being popular in
the imagination/analysis/or survey of the WASHINGTON Agencies. I also
said, "There are good sides to India, but the USA is comfortable with
an India which is assiduously following its lead on many
issues...(economically motivated) This as well as my examples should
be a response to your point, "There are indeed many faults in the
Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the
broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey
have done."

I am not allowing myself to be held in thrall by the pronouncement of
the "popular" for two reasons. First of all, although an Indian I am
not impressed with notions of popularity, and secondly having lived a
life of observation (as have others too) -- the media is the media,
and being the media, seen it(the media) puts out news, including
facts, largely based on the interests of power brokers. So my response
must be seen within this duality.
India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
WASHINGTON (Agencies): India is the sixth most POPULAR country in the US, with 69 per cent of the Americans having a positive image about it, while Pakistan finds itself among the 10 most unpopular nations, according to a new poll. Of 22 countries rated in Gallup's 2008 World Affairs survey, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and Japan win favour with at least 80 per cent of Americans. The top four is followed by Israel at 71 per cent. India ties with France at the sixth spot for the positive image. [GT]
So my picture, is a broad picture, and will always be a broad picture.
My expressive temper may come across as harsh, but it aims for
precision and the splintering of obfuscation or pithy statements,
which we inadvertently absorb into our social identities. India is
complex, and I do understand that, but India like any other country
has its interests and protects or protests based on how our Mandarins
(very important term here) see themselves, themselves as India, and
India as in themselves. So what I am saying is, the label of "popular"
has a plurality of connotations; we should look beyond the denotations
of "popular." I see Indians as reasonably proud people, but I do not
see Indian politicians from the same mould. This is what I am saying.
I am not banging on the proud swadeshi Indian. People like me will
always make connections and analogies that I can only hope others may
see. These are not done casually, are not tormented by any stretch of
imagination, but may just be a bit more visually forceful than the
comfort level in this forum.

Now JF may respond by at least saying he got the gist of what I am
saying, or that it is pure gibberish.

venantius j pinto
From: Sachin Phadte <sachinphadte at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
I do not understand what Venantius Pinto is trying to say in context of the subject line. The report indicates the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated, one should take it at face value. And if one says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming to such a conclusion.
There are indeed many faults in the Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey have done.
Sachin Phadte
________________________________
Dear Jerry,
There are many sides to this popularity consensus, which is a
consensus to begin with. But should Indians even care, and who are
those that do concern themselves with such pronouncements in the
media. To be popular means you have something -- in the case of
humans; one is vivacious, elegant, a great pair of legs, and so on and
so forth. They all allude and promise things. With countries, as we
are embraced within late late capitalism -- being popular may have to
do with economic aspects of an economy that enthralls the largest
self-souped up super power. I happen to live in it so see the humor as
well as the depth of the thought process, which is quite deep really,
disarming and illusory. Pure maya really! There are good sides to
India, but the USA is comfortable with an India which is assiduously
following its lead on many issues, unlike other countries less than a
fifth of our size. We do not berate the US (and certainly not
publicly) on anything. We are opening economy in ways that gives
meaning to the existences of the stewards of capital, to the
constantly presumed engorging middle-class, to mirroring their
concepts and constructing images of Protestant asceticism where making
money using a shared model while playing pretense at trickle-down, to
not really making ourselves clear in no uncertain terms about the
relevance of the oil pipeline from Iran, and more than occasionally
doing the shastang to appease which we do not even proverbially do
anymore to our elders. See the track records of parties who have been
in power to see this clearly. We also have the numbers to keep the
surviving financial model continue thriving. Hey, Indians are even
beginning to get enamoured with 18 carat gold. What can you not like
about that. That's free money -- practically. Fibreglass cows will be
next. If an F-16 "strayed" over India, it would certainly not be sent
back in crates as the Chinese did. But despite such acts of
belligerence and a fascinating insult to itself,they still love the
Chinese. Why -- undoubtedly for what China is willing to do to satiate
the bellies of capitalism, their own and that of the USA.

Other than my two bits, it would always be good to get a personal take
from an economist, a stockbroker, one playing the market, or perhaps
even a Goa assimilated bhanya. But these are vain hopes as usual.

venantius

?
Jerry Fernandes
2008-03-16 19:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Venantius./ Sachin

Thanks for your write-ups to my query. I appreciate both your honest views. I also thank Mario for his reply. But then the main issue is the survey. As has been pointed by Mario, who maybe feels that the survey?s opinion may have been given after, intermingling with the Indian community in USA. The Indian community must have been the silent ambassadors to promote India in such a large way, although now they themselves being American citizens. I wonder what could be the percentage of Indians who have already settled in USA.

It could also be due to cheap medical treatment that is available in India compared to American prices, which has made India a more popular destination? Just my opinion. Well whatever may be the reason, good to know that the negative conceptions the Americans had about India, are gone. I hope this conception will not rise again due to the present news of Goa which seems to be doing the rounds now a days.

Cheers

Jerry

From: "Venantius Pinto" <venantius.pinto at gmail.com>
Dear Sachin,
It would have helped if you asked specifically which part you did not
understand. I must say that the my grammar in my post is not the
finest. But other than I believe the ideas do come across. In all
probability no one else may respond, so here is what I meant. The
thread as you know began with Jerry Fernandes' query reproduced below.
When that question was asked by JF, "Dear Netters
So what has brought about this sudden rise in the interest of India
amongst the Americans? Is there any truth in this news?" [WASHINGTON
(Agencies)], I responded; answering your vide, "The report indicates
the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated,
one should take it at face value" I do not need to say it is
manipulated, but since you ask questions in tandem -- SP: "And if one
says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming
to such a conclusion," I shall point the general rational behind my
response, and not specific details. I do sense that you feel I am
being irresponsible towards India.

We give our opinions (as if they matter) on a plethora of issues in
this forum. I gave my opinion based on how I viewed JFs question. I
could have made little of it, but too it seriously, and cared to
explain, but also giving examples that force one to think for oneself
-- whether one wishes to do so or not. This is where it begins. I
began by looking briefly at the word "popular" (CAPPED by me in the
excerpt from Jerry Fernandes below), by making an analogy between the
qualities (largely superficial) between a human and extrapolating
those notions (but seeing them deeply and relating them to the country
as an being) onto country -- in this case India. What I am doing is
attempting to nail down why India is considered as being popular in
the imagination/analysis/or survey of the WASHINGTON Agencies. I also
said, "There are good sides to India, but the USA is comfortable with
an India which is assiduously following its lead on many
issues...(economically motivated) This as well as my examples should
be a response to your point, "There are indeed many faults in the
Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the
broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey
have done."

I am not allowing myself to be held in thrall by the pronouncement of
the "popular" for two reasons. First of all, although an Indian I am
not impressed with notions of popularity, and secondly having lived a
life of observation (as have others too) -- the media is the media,
and being the media, seen it(the media) puts out news, including
facts, largely based on the interests of power brokers. So my response
must be seen within this duality.
India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
WASHINGTON (Agencies): India is the sixth most POPULAR country in the US, with 69 per cent of the Americans having a positive image about it, while Pakistan finds itself among the 10 most unpopular nations, according to a new poll. Of 22 countries rated in Gallup's 2008 World Affairs survey, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and Japan win favour with at least 80 per cent of Americans. The top four is followed by Israel at 71 per cent. India ties with France at the sixth spot for the positive image. [GT]
So my picture, is a broad picture, and will always be a broad picture.
My expressive temper may come across as harsh, but it aims for
precision and the splintering of obfuscation or pithy statements,
which we inadvertently absorb into our social identities. India is
complex, and I do understand that, but India like any other country
has its interests and protects or protests based on how our Mandarins
(very important term here) see themselves, themselves as India, and
India as in themselves. So what I am saying is, the label of "popular"
has a plurality of connotations; we should look beyond the denotations
of "popular." I see Indians as reasonably proud people, but I do not
see Indian politicians from the same mould. This is what I am saying.
I am not banging on the proud swadeshi Indian. People like me will
always make connections and analogies that I can only hope others may
see. These are not done casually, are not tormented by any stretch of
imagination, but may just be a bit more visually forceful than the
comfort level in this forum.

Now JF may respond by at least saying he got the gist of what I am
saying, or that it is pure gibberish.

venantius j pinto
From: Sachin Phadte <sachinphadte at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] India, sixth 'Wonder' of Americans
I do not understand what Venantius Pinto is trying to say in context of the subject line. The report indicates the results of a survey, and unless one says that it is manipulated, one should take it at face value. And if one says it is manipulated, one should give the reasons why one is coming to such a conclusion.
There are indeed many faults in the Indian society, and amongst the Indians. However, one has to see the broader picture, and this is what those who responded to the survey have done.
Sachin Phadte
________________________________
Dear Jerry,
There are many sides to this popularity consensus, which is a
consensus to begin with. But should Indians even care, and who are
those that do concern themselves with such pronouncements in the
media. To be popular means you have something -- in the case of
humans; one is vivacious, elegant, a great pair of legs, and so on and
so forth. They all allude and promise things. With countries, as we
are embraced within late late capitalism -- being popular may have to
do with economic aspects of an economy that enthralls the largest
self-souped up super power. I happen to live in it so see the humor as
well as the depth of the thought process, which is quite deep really,
disarming and illusory. Pure maya really! There are good sides to
India, but the USA is comfortable with an India which is assiduously
following its lead on many issues, unlike other countries less than a
fifth of our size. We do not berate the US (and certainly not
publicly) on anything. We are opening economy in ways that gives
meaning to the existences of the stewards of capital, to the
constantly presumed engorging middle-class, to mirroring their
concepts and constructing images of Protestant asceticism where making
money using a shared model while playing pretense at trickle-down, to
not really making ourselves clear in no uncertain terms about the
relevance of the oil pipeline from Iran, and more than occasionally
doing the shastang to appease which we do not even proverbially do
anymore to our elders. See the track records of parties who have been
in power to see this clearly. We also have the numbers to keep the
surviving financial model continue thriving. Hey, Indians are even
beginning to get enamoured with 18 carat gold. What can you not like
about that. That's free money -- practically. Fibreglass cows will be
next. If an F-16 "strayed" over India, it would certainly not be sent
back in crates as the Chinese did. But despite such acts of
belligerence and a fascinating insult to itself,they still love the
Chinese. Why -- undoubtedly for what China is willing to do to satiate
the bellies of capitalism, their own and that of the USA.

Other than my two bits, it would always be good to get a personal take
from an economist, a stockbroker, one playing the market, or perhaps
even a Goa assimilated bhanya. But these are vain hopes as usual.

venantius

?

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