Discussion:
Goans a special breed?
(too old to reply)
Gabe Menezes
2004-02-27 09:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Are Goans a special breed?

Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.

I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.

So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.

Cheers,

Gibe Menezes.
vivek araujo
2004-02-27 12:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Sorry you have not yet felt that Goenkars are special
in their own way.

You need not explain about each and every community
which if you read comes back to my opinion, and that
is what 'am stressing my point again, everyone and
everycommunity is free to feel special , i am a
goenkar and always believed and believe that we are
special.

On Gujratis having had a rough time in Uganda,(during
the exodus everyone had a rough time including the
Goans , who left their properties behind,) kindly wake
up and see where the Gujrati's are today, let's talk
of the present , past is history of what happened ,
why , how , which, etc. questions can be left aside
and we move. You must read a lot Gabe and advise you
to read the Times of India today's edition , let me
assist you, kindly log on to www.timesofindia.com ,
about indians joining the list of richness with Bill
gates. I can go on and on about Gujratis in Uganda,
but you will never be convinced about their standing
in Uganda, if time persist make a trip and see how
they have changed the face of Uganda.

Let's talk what's on the ground, do not write
unrealistic issues like the Gujratis in Uganda had a
rough time etc....I

--- Gabe Menezes <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >
Are Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
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cornel
2004-02-27 12:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <goanet at goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
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##########################################################################
Eddie Fernandes
2004-02-27 12:56:15 UTC
Permalink
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special.
===================================================

Folks,

Gabe is so right regarding the East African context in the mid 20th
century but do the concepts have universal validity today?

I was brought up in Mombasa, Kenya and my own experience was not much
different from Gabe's. I went to a Goan School, relaxed at the Goan
Institute and went to the Catholic Church which had a predominantly Goan
congregation. Life revolved around the three. The reason we excelled in
sports was because we had excellent facilities.

At the Goan School, English was the medium of instruction and we
specialised in English history and geography. The Principal introduced fines
if any pupil was caught talking Konkani whilst on school premises. In most
other respects, the Principal was excellent and incidentally went to Goa
after retirement - Parrikar, Goa's CM, remembers him fondly as his Maths
teacher!

I submit that it was largely religious teaching that was responsible for
brainwashing us to believe we were a special breed. We were also
conditioned to accept white supremacy whist believing that we were a breed
apart from the blacks and the other Asians.

When I then went to St Xavier's College, Mumbai, it came as quite a shock
to the system to realize that "Indians" who were "heathens", did not drink
alcohol or eat meat or waltz and spoke a "funny" language were able to speak
English more fluently than me and excelled academically, socially,
intellectually and even spiritually! I lived at the College hostel and
benefitted enormously by friendship with them.

So perhaps we ought to sympathise with the ilk of Vivek who are still
cloistered in the East Africa context. Pity is all that he deserves!

The key question is how do we react in the Western environment. If we
believe in Goan superiority to the other Asians it means we accept our
inferiority to the whites. How do we react to the discrimination and racial
attacks?

BTW. News has just come in that Denis Lobo, (aged 53, ex-Nairobi), has
been the victim of repeated racial attacks in the UK, Hillingdon Times of
27 Feb 2004 has a 517 words article about it. I have the full text and have
just spoken to him. However the website http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/
is currently down and I am unable to give you the url.


Cheers

Eddie Fernandes
Alfred de Tavares
2004-02-27 15:34:11 UTC
Permalink
From: vivek araujo <vivek_araujo2003 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
Arre, Vivek-bab,

Whuin-cho re baba tuum.

Vincha'tam kitteak amchea Lot'liant zaite uxau Arujo assat.

Mogan,
Alfred de Tavares

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
vivek araujo
2004-02-28 07:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Mr.Cornel,

On the word breed as explained very well by you is
totally agreeable by me, i have no problems, but just
imagine the person who started the topic by mentioning
GOANS AS SPECIAL "BREED" was not questioned, but when
i expressed my opinion stating yes we goans are
special breed, the reaction on my yes was not liked by
some, the entire subject matter was forgotten but now
the hicup was BREED,and i apprecaite your concern on
the word breed, some went to bring in CM Mr. Parrikar
to some context, poodles etc. there was no need at all
for all this.

I did not start mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED,
anyways.Right from the start I have not made any
distinction nor discriminated communities.

Less the word Breed , yes We goans are speciall.

Vivek

cornel <cornel at btinternet.com> wrote: Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate-
especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people
bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I
feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a
breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian
Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying
casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or
morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to
be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business)
and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that
their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani
mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian
communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the
plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting
in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in
Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I
also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in
sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very
special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans
cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they
were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were,
say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to
sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and
they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that
community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow
minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony
-until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes"

To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
Post by Gabe Menezes
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be
special)
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St.
Teresa's
Post by Gabe Menezes
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
Post by Gabe Menezes
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Post by Gabe Menezes
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
Post by Gabe Menezes
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
Post by Gabe Menezes
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
Post by Gabe Menezes
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses
including
Post by Gabe Menezes
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
Post by Gabe Menezes
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
Post by Gabe Menezes
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
Post by Gabe Menezes
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect
respect to others #
##########################################################################



________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more.
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
Gabe Menezes
2004-02-27 09:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Are Goans a special breed?

Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.

I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.

So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.

Cheers,

Gibe Menezes.
vivek araujo
2004-02-27 12:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Sorry you have not yet felt that Goenkars are special
in their own way.

You need not explain about each and every community
which if you read comes back to my opinion, and that
is what 'am stressing my point again, everyone and
everycommunity is free to feel special , i am a
goenkar and always believed and believe that we are
special.

On Gujratis having had a rough time in Uganda,(during
the exodus everyone had a rough time including the
Goans , who left their properties behind,) kindly wake
up and see where the Gujrati's are today, let's talk
of the present , past is history of what happened ,
why , how , which, etc. questions can be left aside
and we move. You must read a lot Gabe and advise you
to read the Times of India today's edition , let me
assist you, kindly log on to www.timesofindia.com ,
about indians joining the list of richness with Bill
gates. I can go on and on about Gujratis in Uganda,
but you will never be convinced about their standing
in Uganda, if time persist make a trip and see how
they have changed the face of Uganda.

Let's talk what's on the ground, do not write
unrealistic issues like the Gujratis in Uganda had a
rough time etc....I

--- Gabe Menezes <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >
Are Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################



________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more.
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
cornel
2004-02-27 12:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <goanet at goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
Eddie Fernandes
2004-02-27 12:56:15 UTC
Permalink
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special.
===================================================

Folks,

Gabe is so right regarding the East African context in the mid 20th
century but do the concepts have universal validity today?

I was brought up in Mombasa, Kenya and my own experience was not much
different from Gabe's. I went to a Goan School, relaxed at the Goan
Institute and went to the Catholic Church which had a predominantly Goan
congregation. Life revolved around the three. The reason we excelled in
sports was because we had excellent facilities.

At the Goan School, English was the medium of instruction and we
specialised in English history and geography. The Principal introduced fines
if any pupil was caught talking Konkani whilst on school premises. In most
other respects, the Principal was excellent and incidentally went to Goa
after retirement - Parrikar, Goa's CM, remembers him fondly as his Maths
teacher!

I submit that it was largely religious teaching that was responsible for
brainwashing us to believe we were a special breed. We were also
conditioned to accept white supremacy whist believing that we were a breed
apart from the blacks and the other Asians.

When I then went to St Xavier's College, Mumbai, it came as quite a shock
to the system to realize that "Indians" who were "heathens", did not drink
alcohol or eat meat or waltz and spoke a "funny" language were able to speak
English more fluently than me and excelled academically, socially,
intellectually and even spiritually! I lived at the College hostel and
benefitted enormously by friendship with them.

So perhaps we ought to sympathise with the ilk of Vivek who are still
cloistered in the East Africa context. Pity is all that he deserves!

The key question is how do we react in the Western environment. If we
believe in Goan superiority to the other Asians it means we accept our
inferiority to the whites. How do we react to the discrimination and racial
attacks?

BTW. News has just come in that Denis Lobo, (aged 53, ex-Nairobi), has
been the victim of repeated racial attacks in the UK, Hillingdon Times of
27 Feb 2004 has a 517 words article about it. I have the full text and have
just spoken to him. However the website http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/
is currently down and I am unable to give you the url.


Cheers

Eddie Fernandes
Alfred de Tavares
2004-02-27 15:34:11 UTC
Permalink
From: vivek araujo <vivek_araujo2003 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
Arre, Vivek-bab,

Whuin-cho re baba tuum.

Vincha'tam kitteak amchea Lot'liant zaite uxau Arujo assat.

Mogan,
Alfred de Tavares

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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vivek araujo
2004-02-28 07:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Mr.Cornel,

On the word breed as explained very well by you is
totally agreeable by me, i have no problems, but just
imagine the person who started the topic by mentioning
GOANS AS SPECIAL "BREED" was not questioned, but when
i expressed my opinion stating yes we goans are
special breed, the reaction on my yes was not liked by
some, the entire subject matter was forgotten but now
the hicup was BREED,and i apprecaite your concern on
the word breed, some went to bring in CM Mr. Parrikar
to some context, poodles etc. there was no need at all
for all this.

I did not start mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED,
anyways.Right from the start I have not made any
distinction nor discriminated communities.

Less the word Breed , yes We goans are speciall.

Vivek

cornel <cornel at btinternet.com> wrote: Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate-
especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people
bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I
feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a
breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian
Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying
casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or
morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to
be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business)
and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that
their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani
mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian
communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the
plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting
in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in
Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I
also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in
sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very
special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans
cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they
were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were,
say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to
sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and
they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that
community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow
minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony
-until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes"

To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
Post by Gabe Menezes
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be
special)
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St.
Teresa's
Post by Gabe Menezes
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
Post by Gabe Menezes
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Post by Gabe Menezes
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
Post by Gabe Menezes
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
Post by Gabe Menezes
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
Post by Gabe Menezes
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses
including
Post by Gabe Menezes
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
Post by Gabe Menezes
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
Post by Gabe Menezes
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
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# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
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Post by Gabe Menezes
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Post by Gabe Menezes
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reflect respect to others #
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Gabe Menezes
2004-02-27 09:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Are Goans a special breed?

Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.

I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.

So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.

Cheers,

Gibe Menezes.
vivek araujo
2004-02-27 12:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Sorry you have not yet felt that Goenkars are special
in their own way.

You need not explain about each and every community
which if you read comes back to my opinion, and that
is what 'am stressing my point again, everyone and
everycommunity is free to feel special , i am a
goenkar and always believed and believe that we are
special.

On Gujratis having had a rough time in Uganda,(during
the exodus everyone had a rough time including the
Goans , who left their properties behind,) kindly wake
up and see where the Gujrati's are today, let's talk
of the present , past is history of what happened ,
why , how , which, etc. questions can be left aside
and we move. You must read a lot Gabe and advise you
to read the Times of India today's edition , let me
assist you, kindly log on to www.timesofindia.com ,
about indians joining the list of richness with Bill
gates. I can go on and on about Gujratis in Uganda,
but you will never be convinced about their standing
in Uganda, if time persist make a trip and see how
they have changed the face of Uganda.

Let's talk what's on the ground, do not write
unrealistic issues like the Gujratis in Uganda had a
rough time etc....I

--- Gabe Menezes <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >
Are Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################



________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more.
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
cornel
2004-02-27 12:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <goanet at goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
Eddie Fernandes
2004-02-27 12:56:15 UTC
Permalink
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special.
===================================================

Folks,

Gabe is so right regarding the East African context in the mid 20th
century but do the concepts have universal validity today?

I was brought up in Mombasa, Kenya and my own experience was not much
different from Gabe's. I went to a Goan School, relaxed at the Goan
Institute and went to the Catholic Church which had a predominantly Goan
congregation. Life revolved around the three. The reason we excelled in
sports was because we had excellent facilities.

At the Goan School, English was the medium of instruction and we
specialised in English history and geography. The Principal introduced fines
if any pupil was caught talking Konkani whilst on school premises. In most
other respects, the Principal was excellent and incidentally went to Goa
after retirement - Parrikar, Goa's CM, remembers him fondly as his Maths
teacher!

I submit that it was largely religious teaching that was responsible for
brainwashing us to believe we were a special breed. We were also
conditioned to accept white supremacy whist believing that we were a breed
apart from the blacks and the other Asians.

When I then went to St Xavier's College, Mumbai, it came as quite a shock
to the system to realize that "Indians" who were "heathens", did not drink
alcohol or eat meat or waltz and spoke a "funny" language were able to speak
English more fluently than me and excelled academically, socially,
intellectually and even spiritually! I lived at the College hostel and
benefitted enormously by friendship with them.

So perhaps we ought to sympathise with the ilk of Vivek who are still
cloistered in the East Africa context. Pity is all that he deserves!

The key question is how do we react in the Western environment. If we
believe in Goan superiority to the other Asians it means we accept our
inferiority to the whites. How do we react to the discrimination and racial
attacks?

BTW. News has just come in that Denis Lobo, (aged 53, ex-Nairobi), has
been the victim of repeated racial attacks in the UK, Hillingdon Times of
27 Feb 2004 has a 517 words article about it. I have the full text and have
just spoken to him. However the website http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/
is currently down and I am unable to give you the url.


Cheers

Eddie Fernandes
Alfred de Tavares
2004-02-27 15:34:11 UTC
Permalink
From: vivek araujo <vivek_araujo2003 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
Arre, Vivek-bab,

Whuin-cho re baba tuum.

Vincha'tam kitteak amchea Lot'liant zaite uxau Arujo assat.

Mogan,
Alfred de Tavares

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
vivek araujo
2004-02-28 07:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Mr.Cornel,

On the word breed as explained very well by you is
totally agreeable by me, i have no problems, but just
imagine the person who started the topic by mentioning
GOANS AS SPECIAL "BREED" was not questioned, but when
i expressed my opinion stating yes we goans are
special breed, the reaction on my yes was not liked by
some, the entire subject matter was forgotten but now
the hicup was BREED,and i apprecaite your concern on
the word breed, some went to bring in CM Mr. Parrikar
to some context, poodles etc. there was no need at all
for all this.

I did not start mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED,
anyways.Right from the start I have not made any
distinction nor discriminated communities.

Less the word Breed , yes We goans are speciall.

Vivek

cornel <cornel at btinternet.com> wrote: Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate-
especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people
bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I
feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a
breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian
Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying
casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or
morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to
be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business)
and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that
their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani
mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian
communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the
plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting
in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in
Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I
also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in
sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very
special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans
cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they
were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were,
say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to
sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and
they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that
community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow
minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony
-until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes"

To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
Post by Gabe Menezes
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be
special)
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St.
Teresa's
Post by Gabe Menezes
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
Post by Gabe Menezes
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Post by Gabe Menezes
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
Post by Gabe Menezes
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
Post by Gabe Menezes
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
Post by Gabe Menezes
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses
including
Post by Gabe Menezes
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
Post by Gabe Menezes
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
Post by Gabe Menezes
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
Post by Gabe Menezes
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http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect
respect to others #
##########################################################################



________________________________________________________________________
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Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
Gabe Menezes
2004-02-27 09:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Are Goans a special breed?

Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.

I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.

So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.

Cheers,

Gibe Menezes.
vivek araujo
2004-02-27 12:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Sorry you have not yet felt that Goenkars are special
in their own way.

You need not explain about each and every community
which if you read comes back to my opinion, and that
is what 'am stressing my point again, everyone and
everycommunity is free to feel special , i am a
goenkar and always believed and believe that we are
special.

On Gujratis having had a rough time in Uganda,(during
the exodus everyone had a rough time including the
Goans , who left their properties behind,) kindly wake
up and see where the Gujrati's are today, let's talk
of the present , past is history of what happened ,
why , how , which, etc. questions can be left aside
and we move. You must read a lot Gabe and advise you
to read the Times of India today's edition , let me
assist you, kindly log on to www.timesofindia.com ,
about indians joining the list of richness with Bill
gates. I can go on and on about Gujratis in Uganda,
but you will never be convinced about their standing
in Uganda, if time persist make a trip and see how
they have changed the face of Uganda.

Let's talk what's on the ground, do not write
unrealistic issues like the Gujratis in Uganda had a
rough time etc....I

--- Gabe Menezes <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >
Are Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
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reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################



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cornel
2004-02-27 12:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <goanet at goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
Eddie Fernandes
2004-02-27 12:56:15 UTC
Permalink
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special.
===================================================

Folks,

Gabe is so right regarding the East African context in the mid 20th
century but do the concepts have universal validity today?

I was brought up in Mombasa, Kenya and my own experience was not much
different from Gabe's. I went to a Goan School, relaxed at the Goan
Institute and went to the Catholic Church which had a predominantly Goan
congregation. Life revolved around the three. The reason we excelled in
sports was because we had excellent facilities.

At the Goan School, English was the medium of instruction and we
specialised in English history and geography. The Principal introduced fines
if any pupil was caught talking Konkani whilst on school premises. In most
other respects, the Principal was excellent and incidentally went to Goa
after retirement - Parrikar, Goa's CM, remembers him fondly as his Maths
teacher!

I submit that it was largely religious teaching that was responsible for
brainwashing us to believe we were a special breed. We were also
conditioned to accept white supremacy whist believing that we were a breed
apart from the blacks and the other Asians.

When I then went to St Xavier's College, Mumbai, it came as quite a shock
to the system to realize that "Indians" who were "heathens", did not drink
alcohol or eat meat or waltz and spoke a "funny" language were able to speak
English more fluently than me and excelled academically, socially,
intellectually and even spiritually! I lived at the College hostel and
benefitted enormously by friendship with them.

So perhaps we ought to sympathise with the ilk of Vivek who are still
cloistered in the East Africa context. Pity is all that he deserves!

The key question is how do we react in the Western environment. If we
believe in Goan superiority to the other Asians it means we accept our
inferiority to the whites. How do we react to the discrimination and racial
attacks?

BTW. News has just come in that Denis Lobo, (aged 53, ex-Nairobi), has
been the victim of repeated racial attacks in the UK, Hillingdon Times of
27 Feb 2004 has a 517 words article about it. I have the full text and have
just spoken to him. However the website http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/
is currently down and I am unable to give you the url.


Cheers

Eddie Fernandes
Alfred de Tavares
2004-02-27 15:34:11 UTC
Permalink
From: vivek araujo <vivek_araujo2003 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
Arre, Vivek-bab,

Whuin-cho re baba tuum.

Vincha'tam kitteak amchea Lot'liant zaite uxau Arujo assat.

Mogan,
Alfred de Tavares

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
vivek araujo
2004-02-28 07:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Mr.Cornel,

On the word breed as explained very well by you is
totally agreeable by me, i have no problems, but just
imagine the person who started the topic by mentioning
GOANS AS SPECIAL "BREED" was not questioned, but when
i expressed my opinion stating yes we goans are
special breed, the reaction on my yes was not liked by
some, the entire subject matter was forgotten but now
the hicup was BREED,and i apprecaite your concern on
the word breed, some went to bring in CM Mr. Parrikar
to some context, poodles etc. there was no need at all
for all this.

I did not start mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED,
anyways.Right from the start I have not made any
distinction nor discriminated communities.

Less the word Breed , yes We goans are speciall.

Vivek

cornel <cornel at btinternet.com> wrote: Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate-
especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people
bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I
feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a
breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian
Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying
casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or
morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to
be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business)
and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that
their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani
mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian
communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the
plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting
in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in
Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I
also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in
sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very
special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans
cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they
were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were,
say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to
sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and
they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that
community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow
minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony
-until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes"

To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
Post by Gabe Menezes
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be
special)
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St.
Teresa's
Post by Gabe Menezes
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
Post by Gabe Menezes
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Post by Gabe Menezes
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
Post by Gabe Menezes
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
Post by Gabe Menezes
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
Post by Gabe Menezes
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses
including
Post by Gabe Menezes
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
Post by Gabe Menezes
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
Post by Gabe Menezes
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
Post by Gabe Menezes
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Post by Gabe Menezes
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
##########################################################################
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# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
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http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect
respect to others #
##########################################################################



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Gabe Menezes
2004-02-27 09:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Are Goans a special breed?

Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.

I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.

So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.

Cheers,

Gibe Menezes.
vivek araujo
2004-02-27 12:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Sorry you have not yet felt that Goenkars are special
in their own way.

You need not explain about each and every community
which if you read comes back to my opinion, and that
is what 'am stressing my point again, everyone and
everycommunity is free to feel special , i am a
goenkar and always believed and believe that we are
special.

On Gujratis having had a rough time in Uganda,(during
the exodus everyone had a rough time including the
Goans , who left their properties behind,) kindly wake
up and see where the Gujrati's are today, let's talk
of the present , past is history of what happened ,
why , how , which, etc. questions can be left aside
and we move. You must read a lot Gabe and advise you
to read the Times of India today's edition , let me
assist you, kindly log on to www.timesofindia.com ,
about indians joining the list of richness with Bill
gates. I can go on and on about Gujratis in Uganda,
but you will never be convinced about their standing
in Uganda, if time persist make a trip and see how
they have changed the face of Uganda.

Let's talk what's on the ground, do not write
unrealistic issues like the Gujratis in Uganda had a
rough time etc....I

--- Gabe Menezes <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >
Are Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################



________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more.
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
cornel
2004-02-27 12:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <goanet at goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
Eddie Fernandes
2004-02-27 12:56:15 UTC
Permalink
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special.
===================================================

Folks,

Gabe is so right regarding the East African context in the mid 20th
century but do the concepts have universal validity today?

I was brought up in Mombasa, Kenya and my own experience was not much
different from Gabe's. I went to a Goan School, relaxed at the Goan
Institute and went to the Catholic Church which had a predominantly Goan
congregation. Life revolved around the three. The reason we excelled in
sports was because we had excellent facilities.

At the Goan School, English was the medium of instruction and we
specialised in English history and geography. The Principal introduced fines
if any pupil was caught talking Konkani whilst on school premises. In most
other respects, the Principal was excellent and incidentally went to Goa
after retirement - Parrikar, Goa's CM, remembers him fondly as his Maths
teacher!

I submit that it was largely religious teaching that was responsible for
brainwashing us to believe we were a special breed. We were also
conditioned to accept white supremacy whist believing that we were a breed
apart from the blacks and the other Asians.

When I then went to St Xavier's College, Mumbai, it came as quite a shock
to the system to realize that "Indians" who were "heathens", did not drink
alcohol or eat meat or waltz and spoke a "funny" language were able to speak
English more fluently than me and excelled academically, socially,
intellectually and even spiritually! I lived at the College hostel and
benefitted enormously by friendship with them.

So perhaps we ought to sympathise with the ilk of Vivek who are still
cloistered in the East Africa context. Pity is all that he deserves!

The key question is how do we react in the Western environment. If we
believe in Goan superiority to the other Asians it means we accept our
inferiority to the whites. How do we react to the discrimination and racial
attacks?

BTW. News has just come in that Denis Lobo, (aged 53, ex-Nairobi), has
been the victim of repeated racial attacks in the UK, Hillingdon Times of
27 Feb 2004 has a 517 words article about it. I have the full text and have
just spoken to him. However the website http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/
is currently down and I am unable to give you the url.


Cheers

Eddie Fernandes
Alfred de Tavares
2004-02-27 15:34:11 UTC
Permalink
From: vivek araujo <vivek_araujo2003 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
Arre, Vivek-bab,

Whuin-cho re baba tuum.

Vincha'tam kitteak amchea Lot'liant zaite uxau Arujo assat.

Mogan,
Alfred de Tavares

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
vivek araujo
2004-02-28 07:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Mr.Cornel,

On the word breed as explained very well by you is
totally agreeable by me, i have no problems, but just
imagine the person who started the topic by mentioning
GOANS AS SPECIAL "BREED" was not questioned, but when
i expressed my opinion stating yes we goans are
special breed, the reaction on my yes was not liked by
some, the entire subject matter was forgotten but now
the hicup was BREED,and i apprecaite your concern on
the word breed, some went to bring in CM Mr. Parrikar
to some context, poodles etc. there was no need at all
for all this.

I did not start mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED,
anyways.Right from the start I have not made any
distinction nor discriminated communities.

Less the word Breed , yes We goans are speciall.

Vivek

cornel <cornel at btinternet.com> wrote: Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate-
especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people
bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I
feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a
breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian
Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying
casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or
morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to
be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business)
and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that
their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani
mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian
communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the
plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting
in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in
Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I
also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in
sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very
special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans
cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they
were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were,
say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to
sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and
they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that
community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow
minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony
-until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes"

To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
Post by Gabe Menezes
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be
special)
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St.
Teresa's
Post by Gabe Menezes
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
Post by Gabe Menezes
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Post by Gabe Menezes
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
Post by Gabe Menezes
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
Post by Gabe Menezes
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
Post by Gabe Menezes
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses
including
Post by Gabe Menezes
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
Post by Gabe Menezes
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
Post by Gabe Menezes
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
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Post by Gabe Menezes
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Post by Gabe Menezes
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Gabe Menezes
2004-02-27 09:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Are Goans a special breed?

Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.

I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.

So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.

Cheers,

Gibe Menezes.
vivek araujo
2004-02-27 12:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Sorry you have not yet felt that Goenkars are special
in their own way.

You need not explain about each and every community
which if you read comes back to my opinion, and that
is what 'am stressing my point again, everyone and
everycommunity is free to feel special , i am a
goenkar and always believed and believe that we are
special.

On Gujratis having had a rough time in Uganda,(during
the exodus everyone had a rough time including the
Goans , who left their properties behind,) kindly wake
up and see where the Gujrati's are today, let's talk
of the present , past is history of what happened ,
why , how , which, etc. questions can be left aside
and we move. You must read a lot Gabe and advise you
to read the Times of India today's edition , let me
assist you, kindly log on to www.timesofindia.com ,
about indians joining the list of richness with Bill
gates. I can go on and on about Gujratis in Uganda,
but you will never be convinced about their standing
in Uganda, if time persist make a trip and see how
they have changed the face of Uganda.

Let's talk what's on the ground, do not write
unrealistic issues like the Gujratis in Uganda had a
rough time etc....I

--- Gabe Menezes <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >
Are Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
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reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################



________________________________________________________________________
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Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
cornel
2004-02-27 12:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <goanet at goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
Eddie Fernandes
2004-02-27 12:56:15 UTC
Permalink
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special.
===================================================

Folks,

Gabe is so right regarding the East African context in the mid 20th
century but do the concepts have universal validity today?

I was brought up in Mombasa, Kenya and my own experience was not much
different from Gabe's. I went to a Goan School, relaxed at the Goan
Institute and went to the Catholic Church which had a predominantly Goan
congregation. Life revolved around the three. The reason we excelled in
sports was because we had excellent facilities.

At the Goan School, English was the medium of instruction and we
specialised in English history and geography. The Principal introduced fines
if any pupil was caught talking Konkani whilst on school premises. In most
other respects, the Principal was excellent and incidentally went to Goa
after retirement - Parrikar, Goa's CM, remembers him fondly as his Maths
teacher!

I submit that it was largely religious teaching that was responsible for
brainwashing us to believe we were a special breed. We were also
conditioned to accept white supremacy whist believing that we were a breed
apart from the blacks and the other Asians.

When I then went to St Xavier's College, Mumbai, it came as quite a shock
to the system to realize that "Indians" who were "heathens", did not drink
alcohol or eat meat or waltz and spoke a "funny" language were able to speak
English more fluently than me and excelled academically, socially,
intellectually and even spiritually! I lived at the College hostel and
benefitted enormously by friendship with them.

So perhaps we ought to sympathise with the ilk of Vivek who are still
cloistered in the East Africa context. Pity is all that he deserves!

The key question is how do we react in the Western environment. If we
believe in Goan superiority to the other Asians it means we accept our
inferiority to the whites. How do we react to the discrimination and racial
attacks?

BTW. News has just come in that Denis Lobo, (aged 53, ex-Nairobi), has
been the victim of repeated racial attacks in the UK, Hillingdon Times of
27 Feb 2004 has a 517 words article about it. I have the full text and have
just spoken to him. However the website http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/
is currently down and I am unable to give you the url.


Cheers

Eddie Fernandes
Alfred de Tavares
2004-02-27 15:34:11 UTC
Permalink
From: vivek araujo <vivek_araujo2003 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
Arre, Vivek-bab,

Whuin-cho re baba tuum.

Vincha'tam kitteak amchea Lot'liant zaite uxau Arujo assat.

Mogan,
Alfred de Tavares

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
vivek araujo
2004-02-28 07:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Mr.Cornel,

On the word breed as explained very well by you is
totally agreeable by me, i have no problems, but just
imagine the person who started the topic by mentioning
GOANS AS SPECIAL "BREED" was not questioned, but when
i expressed my opinion stating yes we goans are
special breed, the reaction on my yes was not liked by
some, the entire subject matter was forgotten but now
the hicup was BREED,and i apprecaite your concern on
the word breed, some went to bring in CM Mr. Parrikar
to some context, poodles etc. there was no need at all
for all this.

I did not start mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED,
anyways.Right from the start I have not made any
distinction nor discriminated communities.

Less the word Breed , yes We goans are speciall.

Vivek

cornel <cornel at btinternet.com> wrote: Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate-
especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people
bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I
feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a
breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian
Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying
casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or
morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to
be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business)
and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that
their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani
mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian
communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the
plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting
in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in
Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I
also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in
sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very
special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans
cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they
were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were,
say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to
sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and
they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that
community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow
minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony
-until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes"

To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
Post by Gabe Menezes
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be
special)
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St.
Teresa's
Post by Gabe Menezes
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
Post by Gabe Menezes
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Post by Gabe Menezes
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
Post by Gabe Menezes
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
Post by Gabe Menezes
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
Post by Gabe Menezes
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses
including
Post by Gabe Menezes
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
Post by Gabe Menezes
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
Post by Gabe Menezes
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
Post by Gabe Menezes
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http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
##########################################################################
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# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
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# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect
respect to others #
##########################################################################



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Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
Gabe Menezes
2004-02-27 09:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Are Goans a special breed?

Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.

I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.

So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.

Cheers,

Gibe Menezes.
vivek araujo
2004-02-27 12:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Sorry you have not yet felt that Goenkars are special
in their own way.

You need not explain about each and every community
which if you read comes back to my opinion, and that
is what 'am stressing my point again, everyone and
everycommunity is free to feel special , i am a
goenkar and always believed and believe that we are
special.

On Gujratis having had a rough time in Uganda,(during
the exodus everyone had a rough time including the
Goans , who left their properties behind,) kindly wake
up and see where the Gujrati's are today, let's talk
of the present , past is history of what happened ,
why , how , which, etc. questions can be left aside
and we move. You must read a lot Gabe and advise you
to read the Times of India today's edition , let me
assist you, kindly log on to www.timesofindia.com ,
about indians joining the list of richness with Bill
gates. I can go on and on about Gujratis in Uganda,
but you will never be convinced about their standing
in Uganda, if time persist make a trip and see how
they have changed the face of Uganda.

Let's talk what's on the ground, do not write
unrealistic issues like the Gujratis in Uganda had a
rough time etc....I

--- Gabe Menezes <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >
Are Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
Post by Gabe Menezes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################



________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more.
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
cornel
2004-02-27 12:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <goanet at goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration
services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special)
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a
testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only
interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
Eddie Fernandes
2004-02-27 12:56:15 UTC
Permalink
From: "Gabe Menezes" <lilygabe at blueyonder.co.uk>
Post by Gabe Menezes
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were
special.
===================================================

Folks,

Gabe is so right regarding the East African context in the mid 20th
century but do the concepts have universal validity today?

I was brought up in Mombasa, Kenya and my own experience was not much
different from Gabe's. I went to a Goan School, relaxed at the Goan
Institute and went to the Catholic Church which had a predominantly Goan
congregation. Life revolved around the three. The reason we excelled in
sports was because we had excellent facilities.

At the Goan School, English was the medium of instruction and we
specialised in English history and geography. The Principal introduced fines
if any pupil was caught talking Konkani whilst on school premises. In most
other respects, the Principal was excellent and incidentally went to Goa
after retirement - Parrikar, Goa's CM, remembers him fondly as his Maths
teacher!

I submit that it was largely religious teaching that was responsible for
brainwashing us to believe we were a special breed. We were also
conditioned to accept white supremacy whist believing that we were a breed
apart from the blacks and the other Asians.

When I then went to St Xavier's College, Mumbai, it came as quite a shock
to the system to realize that "Indians" who were "heathens", did not drink
alcohol or eat meat or waltz and spoke a "funny" language were able to speak
English more fluently than me and excelled academically, socially,
intellectually and even spiritually! I lived at the College hostel and
benefitted enormously by friendship with them.

So perhaps we ought to sympathise with the ilk of Vivek who are still
cloistered in the East Africa context. Pity is all that he deserves!

The key question is how do we react in the Western environment. If we
believe in Goan superiority to the other Asians it means we accept our
inferiority to the whites. How do we react to the discrimination and racial
attacks?

BTW. News has just come in that Denis Lobo, (aged 53, ex-Nairobi), has
been the victim of repeated racial attacks in the UK, Hillingdon Times of
27 Feb 2004 has a 517 words article about it. I have the full text and have
just spoken to him. However the website http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/
is currently down and I am unable to give you the url.


Cheers

Eddie Fernandes
Alfred de Tavares
2004-02-27 15:34:11 UTC
Permalink
From: vivek araujo <vivek_araujo2003 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
Arre, Vivek-bab,

Whuin-cho re baba tuum.

Vincha'tam kitteak amchea Lot'liant zaite uxau Arujo assat.

Mogan,
Alfred de Tavares

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vivek araujo
2004-02-28 07:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Mr.Cornel,

On the word breed as explained very well by you is
totally agreeable by me, i have no problems, but just
imagine the person who started the topic by mentioning
GOANS AS SPECIAL "BREED" was not questioned, but when
i expressed my opinion stating yes we goans are
special breed, the reaction on my yes was not liked by
some, the entire subject matter was forgotten but now
the hicup was BREED,and i apprecaite your concern on
the word breed, some went to bring in CM Mr. Parrikar
to some context, poodles etc. there was no need at all
for all this.

I did not start mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED,
anyways.Right from the start I have not made any
distinction nor discriminated communities.

Less the word Breed , yes We goans are speciall.

Vivek

cornel <cornel at btinternet.com> wrote: Gabe,
I think that the word breed is really inappropriate-
especially in terms of
modern usage of the term. It would make some people
bristle with rage or
simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I
feel somewhat insulted
and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a
breed of any kind- and
especially Goan as there is much that is Christian
Goan which is pretty
awful eg their powerful deeply underlying
casteist/segregationist instincts
which are totally indefensible intellectually or
morally. I would have no
problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to
be talented, highly
successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business)
and were generally
well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that
their adoption of the
English language, by largely discarding their Konkani
mothertongue gave them
an initial scholastic edge over other Indian
communities too. But to praise
the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the
plague, does make those
schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting
in my view.

Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in
Mombasa, and definitely a
late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I
also trained/competed
with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in
sprinting. To say that
he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very
special sprinting
talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans
cannot be categorised
in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms.

As to the other community groups you mentioned, they
were attracted to
varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were,
say to the priesthood
and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to
sport. If the Goans had
many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and
they were excellent
construction workers too. To say however, that
community groups considered
themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow
minded, but perhaps
understandable in the the early years of the Colony
-until such minds were
broadened by education and experience.
All in good spirits,
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Menezes"

To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Post by Gabe Menezes
Are Goans a special breed?
Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I
was made to feel we
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran
the Administration
Post by Gabe Menezes
services in Government, Railways and Harbours,
P.W.D. and so forth. Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class
tailors in Nairobi
were
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered
themselves to be
special)
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed
from Benaulim. We had a
Post by Gabe Menezes
Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic
Parochial and St.
Teresa's
Post by Gabe Menezes
schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and
Seraphino Antao is a
Post by Gabe Menezes
testament to our being a special breed, He was a
gold medallist in the
Post by Gabe Menezes
Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey
team boasted 8 or 9 Goans
Post by Gabe Menezes
and only 4 Sikhs.
I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves
special, their only
Post by Gabe Menezes
interest in life was to make money - this is
probably why they had a rough
Post by Gabe Menezes
time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the
other hand were good at
Post by Gabe Menezes
working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran
assorted businesses
including
Post by Gabe Menezes
many butcher shops.
So quite simply everyone thought they were a special
breed in Kenya, this
Post by Gabe Menezes
was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu
tribe considered
Post by Gabe Menezes
themselves to be the inheritors of the land.
Cheers,
Gibe Menezes.
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Post by Gabe Menezes
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Post by Gabe Menezes
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