Discussion:
Man arrested for molestation at Bicholim
(too old to reply)
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-21 07:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com>










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-21 10:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be stoned to death for anything nor should people take the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do not live in medieval days. The law courts in India are able to deal with any criminals who have proper trials and the police force can always be reinforced to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Goans,

These people must be stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?

On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.
Carvalho
2007-10-22 05:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-22 07:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi Elisabeth,
You have forwarded what Cornel wrote, I'm sure you've read what Selma wrote to Cornel, and yet you say that we should not take the law into our hands, at the same time you say that law courts in India are able to deal with criminals, can't you see that the culprits are caught and sent to jail, the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail as if he went visiting his in-laws, if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation? How many innocent victims have been given a fair trial, as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case.

On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.

Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem

zxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----
From: Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:02:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Man arrested for molestation at Bicholim/to Cornel
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com




Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Gabe Menezes
2007-10-22 09:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Hi Elisabeth,
.............................. other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death
even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented
with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals
and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed
while in Saudi Arabia.
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem
RESPONSE: I worked in both Jeddah and Riyadh for just over 7 years.
Don't be too enamoured about Saudi Law. A Muslim's word carries more
weight than a Muslim Woman, who in turn carries more weight than a
non-Muslim.

If you as a Christian, get caught up in an accident or other mishap,
your goose will be surely cooked. I was in a car accident; a van
abruptly stopped in front of me in the fast lane, wanting to turn left
! I braked but a big GMC crashed in to our Toyota, from the back
pushing us on the the van in front.

The Policeman came took our Iquamas and proportioned blame on the
spot. Although I was a non Muslim; I had the good fortune of working
for a Saudi Prince ! The Van in front was driven by Egyptians, they
were taken away, the GMC was driven by lesser princes, who tried to
get me to drop the issue, saying that they would compensate and have
the car repaired. I told them the car did not belong to me but was the
property of Prince so and so, at that they were on to the phone
immediately.

I have seen countless Indians languishing, maids who have their
passports taken away and working, virtually as bonded labour. I have
seen a pregnant woman put on a plane in which I was traveling, back to
India - just given a a handful of cash, by her sponsor, who probably
got her in that state!

So please don't promote the justice meted out in Saudi.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London, England
Gabe Menezes
2007-10-22 09:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Hi Elisabeth,
.............................. other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death
even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented
with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals
and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed
while in Saudi Arabia.
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem
RESPONSE: I worked in both Jeddah and Riyadh for just over 7 years.
Don't be too enamoured about Saudi Law. A Muslim's word carries more
weight than a Muslim Woman, who in turn carries more weight than a
non-Muslim.

If you as a Christian, get caught up in an accident or other mishap,
your goose will be surely cooked. I was in a car accident; a van
abruptly stopped in front of me in the fast lane, wanting to turn left
! I braked but a big GMC crashed in to our Toyota, from the back
pushing us on the the van in front.

The Policeman came took our Iquamas and proportioned blame on the
spot. Although I was a non Muslim; I had the good fortune of working
for a Saudi Prince ! The Van in front was driven by Egyptians, they
were taken away, the GMC was driven by lesser princes, who tried to
get me to drop the issue, saying that they would compensate and have
the car repaired. I told them the car did not belong to me but was the
property of Prince so and so, at that they were on to the phone
immediately.

I have seen countless Indians languishing, maids who have their
passports taken away and working, virtually as bonded labour. I have
seen a pregnant woman put on a plane in which I was traveling, back to
India - just given a a handful of cash, by her sponsor, who probably
got her in that state!

So please don't promote the justice meted out in Saudi.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London, England
Gabe Menezes
2007-10-22 09:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Hi Elisabeth,
.............................. other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death
even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented
with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals
and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed
while in Saudi Arabia.
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem
RESPONSE: I worked in both Jeddah and Riyadh for just over 7 years.
Don't be too enamoured about Saudi Law. A Muslim's word carries more
weight than a Muslim Woman, who in turn carries more weight than a
non-Muslim.

If you as a Christian, get caught up in an accident or other mishap,
your goose will be surely cooked. I was in a car accident; a van
abruptly stopped in front of me in the fast lane, wanting to turn left
! I braked but a big GMC crashed in to our Toyota, from the back
pushing us on the the van in front.

The Policeman came took our Iquamas and proportioned blame on the
spot. Although I was a non Muslim; I had the good fortune of working
for a Saudi Prince ! The Van in front was driven by Egyptians, they
were taken away, the GMC was driven by lesser princes, who tried to
get me to drop the issue, saying that they would compensate and have
the car repaired. I told them the car did not belong to me but was the
property of Prince so and so, at that they were on to the phone
immediately.

I have seen countless Indians languishing, maids who have their
passports taken away and working, virtually as bonded labour. I have
seen a pregnant woman put on a plane in which I was traveling, back to
India - just given a a handful of cash, by her sponsor, who probably
got her in that state!

So please don't promote the justice meted out in Saudi.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London, England
Gabe Menezes
2007-10-22 09:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Hi Elisabeth,
.............................. other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death
even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented
with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals
and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed
while in Saudi Arabia.
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem
RESPONSE: I worked in both Jeddah and Riyadh for just over 7 years.
Don't be too enamoured about Saudi Law. A Muslim's word carries more
weight than a Muslim Woman, who in turn carries more weight than a
non-Muslim.

If you as a Christian, get caught up in an accident or other mishap,
your goose will be surely cooked. I was in a car accident; a van
abruptly stopped in front of me in the fast lane, wanting to turn left
! I braked but a big GMC crashed in to our Toyota, from the back
pushing us on the the van in front.

The Policeman came took our Iquamas and proportioned blame on the
spot. Although I was a non Muslim; I had the good fortune of working
for a Saudi Prince ! The Van in front was driven by Egyptians, they
were taken away, the GMC was driven by lesser princes, who tried to
get me to drop the issue, saying that they would compensate and have
the car repaired. I told them the car did not belong to me but was the
property of Prince so and so, at that they were on to the phone
immediately.

I have seen countless Indians languishing, maids who have their
passports taken away and working, virtually as bonded labour. I have
seen a pregnant woman put on a plane in which I was traveling, back to
India - just given a a handful of cash, by her sponsor, who probably
got her in that state!

So please don't promote the justice meted out in Saudi.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London, England
Gabe Menezes
2007-10-22 09:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Hi Elisabeth,
.............................. other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death
even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented
with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals
and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed
while in Saudi Arabia.
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem
RESPONSE: I worked in both Jeddah and Riyadh for just over 7 years.
Don't be too enamoured about Saudi Law. A Muslim's word carries more
weight than a Muslim Woman, who in turn carries more weight than a
non-Muslim.

If you as a Christian, get caught up in an accident or other mishap,
your goose will be surely cooked. I was in a car accident; a van
abruptly stopped in front of me in the fast lane, wanting to turn left
! I braked but a big GMC crashed in to our Toyota, from the back
pushing us on the the van in front.

The Policeman came took our Iquamas and proportioned blame on the
spot. Although I was a non Muslim; I had the good fortune of working
for a Saudi Prince ! The Van in front was driven by Egyptians, they
were taken away, the GMC was driven by lesser princes, who tried to
get me to drop the issue, saying that they would compensate and have
the car repaired. I told them the car did not belong to me but was the
property of Prince so and so, at that they were on to the phone
immediately.

I have seen countless Indians languishing, maids who have their
passports taken away and working, virtually as bonded labour. I have
seen a pregnant woman put on a plane in which I was traveling, back to
India - just given a a handful of cash, by her sponsor, who probably
got her in that state!

So please don't promote the justice meted out in Saudi.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London, England
Gabe Menezes
2007-10-22 09:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Hi Elisabeth,
.............................. other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death
even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented
with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals
and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed
while in Saudi Arabia.
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem
RESPONSE: I worked in both Jeddah and Riyadh for just over 7 years.
Don't be too enamoured about Saudi Law. A Muslim's word carries more
weight than a Muslim Woman, who in turn carries more weight than a
non-Muslim.

If you as a Christian, get caught up in an accident or other mishap,
your goose will be surely cooked. I was in a car accident; a van
abruptly stopped in front of me in the fast lane, wanting to turn left
! I braked but a big GMC crashed in to our Toyota, from the back
pushing us on the the van in front.

The Policeman came took our Iquamas and proportioned blame on the
spot. Although I was a non Muslim; I had the good fortune of working
for a Saudi Prince ! The Van in front was driven by Egyptians, they
were taken away, the GMC was driven by lesser princes, who tried to
get me to drop the issue, saying that they would compensate and have
the car repaired. I told them the car did not belong to me but was the
property of Prince so and so, at that they were on to the phone
immediately.

I have seen countless Indians languishing, maids who have their
passports taken away and working, virtually as bonded labour. I have
seen a pregnant woman put on a plane in which I was traveling, back to
India - just given a a handful of cash, by her sponsor, who probably
got her in that state!

So please don't promote the justice meted out in Saudi.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London, England
Gabe Menezes
2007-10-22 09:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Hi Elisabeth,
.............................. other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death
even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented
with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals
and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed
while in Saudi Arabia.
Post by Sanny de Quepem
Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem
RESPONSE: I worked in both Jeddah and Riyadh for just over 7 years.
Don't be too enamoured about Saudi Law. A Muslim's word carries more
weight than a Muslim Woman, who in turn carries more weight than a
non-Muslim.

If you as a Christian, get caught up in an accident or other mishap,
your goose will be surely cooked. I was in a car accident; a van
abruptly stopped in front of me in the fast lane, wanting to turn left
! I braked but a big GMC crashed in to our Toyota, from the back
pushing us on the the van in front.

The Policeman came took our Iquamas and proportioned blame on the
spot. Although I was a non Muslim; I had the good fortune of working
for a Saudi Prince ! The Van in front was driven by Egyptians, they
were taken away, the GMC was driven by lesser princes, who tried to
get me to drop the issue, saying that they would compensate and have
the car repaired. I told them the car did not belong to me but was the
property of Prince so and so, at that they were on to the phone
immediately.

I have seen countless Indians languishing, maids who have their
passports taken away and working, virtually as bonded labour. I have
seen a pregnant woman put on a plane in which I was traveling, back to
India - just given a a handful of cash, by her sponsor, who probably
got her in that state!

So please don't promote the justice meted out in Saudi.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London, England
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-21 08:49:34 UTC
Permalink
There is a mental problem with these people, stoning them to death will not solve the problem. Temporarily maybe but in the long term, it will not be the solution to this disease. It is a disease, like any other. It is a mental disease but killing off all mental people would be disasterous to the human race.

If it happened to one of my children, yes I would like to string him up myself, after lots of other bodily harm has been perpertrated by me personally. Then afterwards I would cry like a baby, for being so inhumane to another human being.

There are (unsuccessful) treatments about in various parts of the USA & Europe for this type of behaviour, but understanding it is fundamental to finding a solution to this issue.

Until a "cure" is found, keeping the person away from temptation is currently the only "best" response I can give to this problem, which as existed as a way of life in "Ancient Greece" & beyond as a common acceptance.

As have adultery, various forms of what we now classify as murder, incest and other ways of life in ancient times, including group sex & violations of other bodies, including one's own.

Thank the heavens the medical professions who are looking at this mental state & perhaps we can move on from physical &/or chemical castration to something a bit more progressive. Neither of the above have been found to "cure" the person to date, its in the MIND, therefore removing someones genitals will not stop them from using a foreign object or worse, & the chemical alterations of the mind only "work" while this is being physically dispensed to the perp, as it were.

Once out to fend for himself, he will revert back to his natural surroundings and commit more offences against a child or rape victim.

Yes, I wholehearted agree that this is foul & obscene crime against another person, even more vile when perpetrated against a child, of any age! But we must think of ways to put this person beyond the reach of temptation again, until then the debate will continue.

As I said, if it was MY child, then the rules may well change, however wrong it was, the madness I would feel towards this person would not go away until I got REVENGE on him. But I hope and pray nothing like this happens to my child, and yours! We know what we will want to do, some liberalists say that time heals all wounds, but it leaves a mental scar on the child for which no amount of time will ever erase the torment it went through.

But in reality, of course killing the perp will not bring back the innocence that was lost forever, nor the look on the child's face aftewards, nothing in the whole world and beyong will bring back that smile, that helplessness we were not there to stop.

Its bloody awful but we must find a way forward, not revert back to our "natural" instincts, because it does not make us any better human beings, it drags us down to his level, imprisonment maybe, until a "cure" is found but how long will this take?

Certainly he cannot be allowed back into "society" again, at least not for a very long time, and even then, will he ever be "cured" or "learn his lesson"............

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-22 09:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Stoning to death and cutting off hands, all done with dignity. So we now agree this is the way forward in dealing with criminals, whether they are found guilty by an unbiased court, or kangaroo court where gifts under the table can turn the tables for an innocent man or woman, or a child we recently saw having a CAR wheel run over the child's arm for stealing.

Surely he was due to have his hand cut off, but was it his age or the fact he only stole to eat, because he was hungry that this punishment fitted the crime.

We ought to take a good hard look at our Courts & the authorities who permit the guilty to roam the streets but punish instead those who cannot "gift under the table".

The guilty are also the so-called unscrupulous lawyers, the corrupt police or politician. THOSE are the ones who we ought to sort out FIRST before we can claim Goa / India is a democracy with the law behind it, every step of the way.

I have said my peace regarding this incident of child molestation in my previous post & taken this into account, we should also persevere with naming and shaming the authorities and individuals who are responsible for the upkeep of law and order, so that we can witness ourselves that justice is SEEN to be done, and done according to law.

The law itself in some countries is behind Goa's ideals by 200 years, it does not make either law right, or wrong. But if we have consciences we must be able to put JUSTICE before emotions, the Courts are there to help PROVE without a shadow of doubt (under table gifting aside, these people ought to be prosecuted if found guilty & a prison sentence imposed for corruption, there is no other way, a minimum sentence & a large fine with confiscation of property etc as they do with drug dealers & pimps etc).

No more stoning please, no more cutting off hands or other parts, its just not on. If you feel that secure in the Arabian countries, then good for you. I just hope nobody accuses you (falsely or otherwise) of commiting an offence which will mean parting with a hand or leg, or maybe even heaved up a crane by your neck in the market square on a Friday just before prayers........ just to appease a sense of vengence.

This is not justice in the 21st Century.

We must have more reform of the authorities, the police, the prosecutors & others, to ensure a JUST and FAIR verdict. Also help for the perpetrators of crime, after all if they cannot be cured, by the means we have today, then imprisonment for life or a long term in a hospitalised environment is the JUST way to do it. Of course, as I said before, if it was MY CHILD I would probably take a different view, but I would like to be stopped from commiting the acts that were in my mind, in a time of madness & on the verge of murder, bodily mutilation of the person who attacked any one or both of my daughters!

There has to be some form of punishment for all crimes, but also rehabilitation ought to be considered for non-violent or crimes against another human being, or non-sexual crimes.

We must improve our justice system.

It will be another 200 years before there is any change in the Arab World, as far as they are concerned the Holy Quoran stipulates there must be stoning for adulterous liasons, and cutting off of limbs for various misdeeds. I have a copy of the Holy Quoran, it in Arabic with English translation (it was gifted ---- over the table----to me by a Saudi Arabian student on the birth of my daughter-----some 16 years and 9 months ago), along with his condolences because our first child was a daughter (that's another story, but I digress................).

The Catholic Bible has similar ideals for justice being metted out for anti-social behaviour. We do not see Mapuca market being the centre stage for the weekly stoning of adulterers and cutting off bits of your neighbours behind for the naughty party the previous week-end!

I dont mean to make fun or make light the seriousness of child molestation, but really do we need to kill ANYONE for errornous behaviour if a SERIOUS JAIL SENTENCE ranging from 10 years for fondling to LIFE (meaning the rest of your natural LIFE) for sexual assault will deter anyone from commiting such offences against children?

Of course not, otherwise the thieves who learned their lessons in Jeddah market on a friday, including the stoning, hanging, decapitation and shooting of criminals in various parts of the world stopped ANY of the crimes being commited again?

There must be a mountain of hands in a well somewhere. Perhaps we ought to use this punishment for both parties when "gifting under the table................" ??

Of course not, its tempting to have this as a punishment on the statute books but its not the way forward. We MUST get rid of the corruption first, then the Courts can do their job. The Courts are NOT corrupt, the judges have to be guided by the law, but the human beings who are vunerable to accepting a bit of bribery are the ones who need to be removed from society, for an agreed term.

This term should be decided by the judges who are the people who dish out the punishments and are the ones who see on a daily basis several cases a day, and have a pretty good idea how to deal with criminals.

IF we are unhappy with the judgements, then we ought to say so. The politicians also need to get their act together & those who have vested financial interests over a certain sum of money ought to declare this to Parliament and their local constituency also. This will keep the corrupt in line, and those who are KNOWN to be corrupt, removed.

We can then sleep safely in our beds at night, knowing that the next person who commits an offence, has nobody but himself or herself to blame for the offence, but we must put a cap on age of responsibility, for minor offences, no more cars run over childrens' hands or arms, no more chopping off hands for stealing, and no more slaps on the wrist for the child molester, or a battering by a raging and angry mob, filled with hate for someone who has not even been proved in Court of Law that he was guilty of fondling the child.

Even if he WAS found guilty, we ough to have an appropriate sentence with some form of detention in a mental disorder clinic, sex offenders register or the like, to keep an eye on this person for the rest of his or her life.

NO MORE CHOPPING BITS OFF please, this is as offensive as the original crime.

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England.
-------------------------------------------
.....the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail.......... if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation........as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case..........On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.
Sanny de Quepem
--------------------------------------------
Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man..........Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother........................
selma
-------------------------------------------
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-23 11:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Selma
I do appreciate the sheer frustration of some at times but it can never be right for determined people in Goa or elsewhere to take the law into their own hands and in outrageous ways. But even worse was the recent case when a Goan American strongly recommended that, two alleged murderers of a priest in Goa ought to be crucified upside down in public and their organs be "harvested".

I was never clear in the above example, on Goanet, whether the above was an illustration of Indian/Goan speak or American wild-west speak or even vigilante Southern States of America speak. I doubt the proposer of the above remedy for the alleged crime was himself clear about what speak it was even though it had a contemporary American feel about it by virtue of the place from where the posts were being transmitted!!
Cornel

Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-21 07:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com>










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-21 10:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be stoned to death for anything nor should people take the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do not live in medieval days. The law courts in India are able to deal with any criminals who have proper trials and the police force can always be reinforced to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Goans,

These people must be stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?

On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.
Carvalho
2007-10-22 05:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-22 07:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi Elisabeth,
You have forwarded what Cornel wrote, I'm sure you've read what Selma wrote to Cornel, and yet you say that we should not take the law into our hands, at the same time you say that law courts in India are able to deal with criminals, can't you see that the culprits are caught and sent to jail, the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail as if he went visiting his in-laws, if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation? How many innocent victims have been given a fair trial, as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case.

On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.

Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem

zxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----
From: Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:02:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Man arrested for molestation at Bicholim/to Cornel
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com




Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-21 08:49:34 UTC
Permalink
There is a mental problem with these people, stoning them to death will not solve the problem. Temporarily maybe but in the long term, it will not be the solution to this disease. It is a disease, like any other. It is a mental disease but killing off all mental people would be disasterous to the human race.

If it happened to one of my children, yes I would like to string him up myself, after lots of other bodily harm has been perpertrated by me personally. Then afterwards I would cry like a baby, for being so inhumane to another human being.

There are (unsuccessful) treatments about in various parts of the USA & Europe for this type of behaviour, but understanding it is fundamental to finding a solution to this issue.

Until a "cure" is found, keeping the person away from temptation is currently the only "best" response I can give to this problem, which as existed as a way of life in "Ancient Greece" & beyond as a common acceptance.

As have adultery, various forms of what we now classify as murder, incest and other ways of life in ancient times, including group sex & violations of other bodies, including one's own.

Thank the heavens the medical professions who are looking at this mental state & perhaps we can move on from physical &/or chemical castration to something a bit more progressive. Neither of the above have been found to "cure" the person to date, its in the MIND, therefore removing someones genitals will not stop them from using a foreign object or worse, & the chemical alterations of the mind only "work" while this is being physically dispensed to the perp, as it were.

Once out to fend for himself, he will revert back to his natural surroundings and commit more offences against a child or rape victim.

Yes, I wholehearted agree that this is foul & obscene crime against another person, even more vile when perpetrated against a child, of any age! But we must think of ways to put this person beyond the reach of temptation again, until then the debate will continue.

As I said, if it was MY child, then the rules may well change, however wrong it was, the madness I would feel towards this person would not go away until I got REVENGE on him. But I hope and pray nothing like this happens to my child, and yours! We know what we will want to do, some liberalists say that time heals all wounds, but it leaves a mental scar on the child for which no amount of time will ever erase the torment it went through.

But in reality, of course killing the perp will not bring back the innocence that was lost forever, nor the look on the child's face aftewards, nothing in the whole world and beyong will bring back that smile, that helplessness we were not there to stop.

Its bloody awful but we must find a way forward, not revert back to our "natural" instincts, because it does not make us any better human beings, it drags us down to his level, imprisonment maybe, until a "cure" is found but how long will this take?

Certainly he cannot be allowed back into "society" again, at least not for a very long time, and even then, will he ever be "cured" or "learn his lesson"............

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-22 09:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Stoning to death and cutting off hands, all done with dignity. So we now agree this is the way forward in dealing with criminals, whether they are found guilty by an unbiased court, or kangaroo court where gifts under the table can turn the tables for an innocent man or woman, or a child we recently saw having a CAR wheel run over the child's arm for stealing.

Surely he was due to have his hand cut off, but was it his age or the fact he only stole to eat, because he was hungry that this punishment fitted the crime.

We ought to take a good hard look at our Courts & the authorities who permit the guilty to roam the streets but punish instead those who cannot "gift under the table".

The guilty are also the so-called unscrupulous lawyers, the corrupt police or politician. THOSE are the ones who we ought to sort out FIRST before we can claim Goa / India is a democracy with the law behind it, every step of the way.

I have said my peace regarding this incident of child molestation in my previous post & taken this into account, we should also persevere with naming and shaming the authorities and individuals who are responsible for the upkeep of law and order, so that we can witness ourselves that justice is SEEN to be done, and done according to law.

The law itself in some countries is behind Goa's ideals by 200 years, it does not make either law right, or wrong. But if we have consciences we must be able to put JUSTICE before emotions, the Courts are there to help PROVE without a shadow of doubt (under table gifting aside, these people ought to be prosecuted if found guilty & a prison sentence imposed for corruption, there is no other way, a minimum sentence & a large fine with confiscation of property etc as they do with drug dealers & pimps etc).

No more stoning please, no more cutting off hands or other parts, its just not on. If you feel that secure in the Arabian countries, then good for you. I just hope nobody accuses you (falsely or otherwise) of commiting an offence which will mean parting with a hand or leg, or maybe even heaved up a crane by your neck in the market square on a Friday just before prayers........ just to appease a sense of vengence.

This is not justice in the 21st Century.

We must have more reform of the authorities, the police, the prosecutors & others, to ensure a JUST and FAIR verdict. Also help for the perpetrators of crime, after all if they cannot be cured, by the means we have today, then imprisonment for life or a long term in a hospitalised environment is the JUST way to do it. Of course, as I said before, if it was MY CHILD I would probably take a different view, but I would like to be stopped from commiting the acts that were in my mind, in a time of madness & on the verge of murder, bodily mutilation of the person who attacked any one or both of my daughters!

There has to be some form of punishment for all crimes, but also rehabilitation ought to be considered for non-violent or crimes against another human being, or non-sexual crimes.

We must improve our justice system.

It will be another 200 years before there is any change in the Arab World, as far as they are concerned the Holy Quoran stipulates there must be stoning for adulterous liasons, and cutting off of limbs for various misdeeds. I have a copy of the Holy Quoran, it in Arabic with English translation (it was gifted ---- over the table----to me by a Saudi Arabian student on the birth of my daughter-----some 16 years and 9 months ago), along with his condolences because our first child was a daughter (that's another story, but I digress................).

The Catholic Bible has similar ideals for justice being metted out for anti-social behaviour. We do not see Mapuca market being the centre stage for the weekly stoning of adulterers and cutting off bits of your neighbours behind for the naughty party the previous week-end!

I dont mean to make fun or make light the seriousness of child molestation, but really do we need to kill ANYONE for errornous behaviour if a SERIOUS JAIL SENTENCE ranging from 10 years for fondling to LIFE (meaning the rest of your natural LIFE) for sexual assault will deter anyone from commiting such offences against children?

Of course not, otherwise the thieves who learned their lessons in Jeddah market on a friday, including the stoning, hanging, decapitation and shooting of criminals in various parts of the world stopped ANY of the crimes being commited again?

There must be a mountain of hands in a well somewhere. Perhaps we ought to use this punishment for both parties when "gifting under the table................" ??

Of course not, its tempting to have this as a punishment on the statute books but its not the way forward. We MUST get rid of the corruption first, then the Courts can do their job. The Courts are NOT corrupt, the judges have to be guided by the law, but the human beings who are vunerable to accepting a bit of bribery are the ones who need to be removed from society, for an agreed term.

This term should be decided by the judges who are the people who dish out the punishments and are the ones who see on a daily basis several cases a day, and have a pretty good idea how to deal with criminals.

IF we are unhappy with the judgements, then we ought to say so. The politicians also need to get their act together & those who have vested financial interests over a certain sum of money ought to declare this to Parliament and their local constituency also. This will keep the corrupt in line, and those who are KNOWN to be corrupt, removed.

We can then sleep safely in our beds at night, knowing that the next person who commits an offence, has nobody but himself or herself to blame for the offence, but we must put a cap on age of responsibility, for minor offences, no more cars run over childrens' hands or arms, no more chopping off hands for stealing, and no more slaps on the wrist for the child molester, or a battering by a raging and angry mob, filled with hate for someone who has not even been proved in Court of Law that he was guilty of fondling the child.

Even if he WAS found guilty, we ough to have an appropriate sentence with some form of detention in a mental disorder clinic, sex offenders register or the like, to keep an eye on this person for the rest of his or her life.

NO MORE CHOPPING BITS OFF please, this is as offensive as the original crime.

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England.
-------------------------------------------
.....the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail.......... if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation........as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case..........On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.
Sanny de Quepem
--------------------------------------------
Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man..........Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother........................
selma
-------------------------------------------
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-23 11:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Selma
I do appreciate the sheer frustration of some at times but it can never be right for determined people in Goa or elsewhere to take the law into their own hands and in outrageous ways. But even worse was the recent case when a Goan American strongly recommended that, two alleged murderers of a priest in Goa ought to be crucified upside down in public and their organs be "harvested".

I was never clear in the above example, on Goanet, whether the above was an illustration of Indian/Goan speak or American wild-west speak or even vigilante Southern States of America speak. I doubt the proposer of the above remedy for the alleged crime was himself clear about what speak it was even though it had a contemporary American feel about it by virtue of the place from where the posts were being transmitted!!
Cornel

Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-21 07:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com>










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-21 10:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be stoned to death for anything nor should people take the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do not live in medieval days. The law courts in India are able to deal with any criminals who have proper trials and the police force can always be reinforced to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Goans,

These people must be stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?

On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.
Carvalho
2007-10-22 05:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-22 07:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi Elisabeth,
You have forwarded what Cornel wrote, I'm sure you've read what Selma wrote to Cornel, and yet you say that we should not take the law into our hands, at the same time you say that law courts in India are able to deal with criminals, can't you see that the culprits are caught and sent to jail, the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail as if he went visiting his in-laws, if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation? How many innocent victims have been given a fair trial, as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case.

On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.

Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem

zxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----
From: Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:02:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Man arrested for molestation at Bicholim/to Cornel
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com




Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-21 08:49:34 UTC
Permalink
There is a mental problem with these people, stoning them to death will not solve the problem. Temporarily maybe but in the long term, it will not be the solution to this disease. It is a disease, like any other. It is a mental disease but killing off all mental people would be disasterous to the human race.

If it happened to one of my children, yes I would like to string him up myself, after lots of other bodily harm has been perpertrated by me personally. Then afterwards I would cry like a baby, for being so inhumane to another human being.

There are (unsuccessful) treatments about in various parts of the USA & Europe for this type of behaviour, but understanding it is fundamental to finding a solution to this issue.

Until a "cure" is found, keeping the person away from temptation is currently the only "best" response I can give to this problem, which as existed as a way of life in "Ancient Greece" & beyond as a common acceptance.

As have adultery, various forms of what we now classify as murder, incest and other ways of life in ancient times, including group sex & violations of other bodies, including one's own.

Thank the heavens the medical professions who are looking at this mental state & perhaps we can move on from physical &/or chemical castration to something a bit more progressive. Neither of the above have been found to "cure" the person to date, its in the MIND, therefore removing someones genitals will not stop them from using a foreign object or worse, & the chemical alterations of the mind only "work" while this is being physically dispensed to the perp, as it were.

Once out to fend for himself, he will revert back to his natural surroundings and commit more offences against a child or rape victim.

Yes, I wholehearted agree that this is foul & obscene crime against another person, even more vile when perpetrated against a child, of any age! But we must think of ways to put this person beyond the reach of temptation again, until then the debate will continue.

As I said, if it was MY child, then the rules may well change, however wrong it was, the madness I would feel towards this person would not go away until I got REVENGE on him. But I hope and pray nothing like this happens to my child, and yours! We know what we will want to do, some liberalists say that time heals all wounds, but it leaves a mental scar on the child for which no amount of time will ever erase the torment it went through.

But in reality, of course killing the perp will not bring back the innocence that was lost forever, nor the look on the child's face aftewards, nothing in the whole world and beyong will bring back that smile, that helplessness we were not there to stop.

Its bloody awful but we must find a way forward, not revert back to our "natural" instincts, because it does not make us any better human beings, it drags us down to his level, imprisonment maybe, until a "cure" is found but how long will this take?

Certainly he cannot be allowed back into "society" again, at least not for a very long time, and even then, will he ever be "cured" or "learn his lesson"............

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-22 09:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Stoning to death and cutting off hands, all done with dignity. So we now agree this is the way forward in dealing with criminals, whether they are found guilty by an unbiased court, or kangaroo court where gifts under the table can turn the tables for an innocent man or woman, or a child we recently saw having a CAR wheel run over the child's arm for stealing.

Surely he was due to have his hand cut off, but was it his age or the fact he only stole to eat, because he was hungry that this punishment fitted the crime.

We ought to take a good hard look at our Courts & the authorities who permit the guilty to roam the streets but punish instead those who cannot "gift under the table".

The guilty are also the so-called unscrupulous lawyers, the corrupt police or politician. THOSE are the ones who we ought to sort out FIRST before we can claim Goa / India is a democracy with the law behind it, every step of the way.

I have said my peace regarding this incident of child molestation in my previous post & taken this into account, we should also persevere with naming and shaming the authorities and individuals who are responsible for the upkeep of law and order, so that we can witness ourselves that justice is SEEN to be done, and done according to law.

The law itself in some countries is behind Goa's ideals by 200 years, it does not make either law right, or wrong. But if we have consciences we must be able to put JUSTICE before emotions, the Courts are there to help PROVE without a shadow of doubt (under table gifting aside, these people ought to be prosecuted if found guilty & a prison sentence imposed for corruption, there is no other way, a minimum sentence & a large fine with confiscation of property etc as they do with drug dealers & pimps etc).

No more stoning please, no more cutting off hands or other parts, its just not on. If you feel that secure in the Arabian countries, then good for you. I just hope nobody accuses you (falsely or otherwise) of commiting an offence which will mean parting with a hand or leg, or maybe even heaved up a crane by your neck in the market square on a Friday just before prayers........ just to appease a sense of vengence.

This is not justice in the 21st Century.

We must have more reform of the authorities, the police, the prosecutors & others, to ensure a JUST and FAIR verdict. Also help for the perpetrators of crime, after all if they cannot be cured, by the means we have today, then imprisonment for life or a long term in a hospitalised environment is the JUST way to do it. Of course, as I said before, if it was MY CHILD I would probably take a different view, but I would like to be stopped from commiting the acts that were in my mind, in a time of madness & on the verge of murder, bodily mutilation of the person who attacked any one or both of my daughters!

There has to be some form of punishment for all crimes, but also rehabilitation ought to be considered for non-violent or crimes against another human being, or non-sexual crimes.

We must improve our justice system.

It will be another 200 years before there is any change in the Arab World, as far as they are concerned the Holy Quoran stipulates there must be stoning for adulterous liasons, and cutting off of limbs for various misdeeds. I have a copy of the Holy Quoran, it in Arabic with English translation (it was gifted ---- over the table----to me by a Saudi Arabian student on the birth of my daughter-----some 16 years and 9 months ago), along with his condolences because our first child was a daughter (that's another story, but I digress................).

The Catholic Bible has similar ideals for justice being metted out for anti-social behaviour. We do not see Mapuca market being the centre stage for the weekly stoning of adulterers and cutting off bits of your neighbours behind for the naughty party the previous week-end!

I dont mean to make fun or make light the seriousness of child molestation, but really do we need to kill ANYONE for errornous behaviour if a SERIOUS JAIL SENTENCE ranging from 10 years for fondling to LIFE (meaning the rest of your natural LIFE) for sexual assault will deter anyone from commiting such offences against children?

Of course not, otherwise the thieves who learned their lessons in Jeddah market on a friday, including the stoning, hanging, decapitation and shooting of criminals in various parts of the world stopped ANY of the crimes being commited again?

There must be a mountain of hands in a well somewhere. Perhaps we ought to use this punishment for both parties when "gifting under the table................" ??

Of course not, its tempting to have this as a punishment on the statute books but its not the way forward. We MUST get rid of the corruption first, then the Courts can do their job. The Courts are NOT corrupt, the judges have to be guided by the law, but the human beings who are vunerable to accepting a bit of bribery are the ones who need to be removed from society, for an agreed term.

This term should be decided by the judges who are the people who dish out the punishments and are the ones who see on a daily basis several cases a day, and have a pretty good idea how to deal with criminals.

IF we are unhappy with the judgements, then we ought to say so. The politicians also need to get their act together & those who have vested financial interests over a certain sum of money ought to declare this to Parliament and their local constituency also. This will keep the corrupt in line, and those who are KNOWN to be corrupt, removed.

We can then sleep safely in our beds at night, knowing that the next person who commits an offence, has nobody but himself or herself to blame for the offence, but we must put a cap on age of responsibility, for minor offences, no more cars run over childrens' hands or arms, no more chopping off hands for stealing, and no more slaps on the wrist for the child molester, or a battering by a raging and angry mob, filled with hate for someone who has not even been proved in Court of Law that he was guilty of fondling the child.

Even if he WAS found guilty, we ough to have an appropriate sentence with some form of detention in a mental disorder clinic, sex offenders register or the like, to keep an eye on this person for the rest of his or her life.

NO MORE CHOPPING BITS OFF please, this is as offensive as the original crime.

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England.
-------------------------------------------
.....the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail.......... if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation........as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case..........On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.
Sanny de Quepem
--------------------------------------------
Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man..........Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother........................
selma
-------------------------------------------
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-23 11:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Selma
I do appreciate the sheer frustration of some at times but it can never be right for determined people in Goa or elsewhere to take the law into their own hands and in outrageous ways. But even worse was the recent case when a Goan American strongly recommended that, two alleged murderers of a priest in Goa ought to be crucified upside down in public and their organs be "harvested".

I was never clear in the above example, on Goanet, whether the above was an illustration of Indian/Goan speak or American wild-west speak or even vigilante Southern States of America speak. I doubt the proposer of the above remedy for the alleged crime was himself clear about what speak it was even though it had a contemporary American feel about it by virtue of the place from where the posts were being transmitted!!
Cornel

Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-21 07:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com>










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-21 10:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be stoned to death for anything nor should people take the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do not live in medieval days. The law courts in India are able to deal with any criminals who have proper trials and the police force can always be reinforced to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Goans,

These people must be stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?

On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.
Carvalho
2007-10-22 05:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-22 07:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi Elisabeth,
You have forwarded what Cornel wrote, I'm sure you've read what Selma wrote to Cornel, and yet you say that we should not take the law into our hands, at the same time you say that law courts in India are able to deal with criminals, can't you see that the culprits are caught and sent to jail, the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail as if he went visiting his in-laws, if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation? How many innocent victims have been given a fair trial, as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case.

On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.

Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem

zxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----
From: Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:02:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Man arrested for molestation at Bicholim/to Cornel
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com




Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-21 08:49:34 UTC
Permalink
There is a mental problem with these people, stoning them to death will not solve the problem. Temporarily maybe but in the long term, it will not be the solution to this disease. It is a disease, like any other. It is a mental disease but killing off all mental people would be disasterous to the human race.

If it happened to one of my children, yes I would like to string him up myself, after lots of other bodily harm has been perpertrated by me personally. Then afterwards I would cry like a baby, for being so inhumane to another human being.

There are (unsuccessful) treatments about in various parts of the USA & Europe for this type of behaviour, but understanding it is fundamental to finding a solution to this issue.

Until a "cure" is found, keeping the person away from temptation is currently the only "best" response I can give to this problem, which as existed as a way of life in "Ancient Greece" & beyond as a common acceptance.

As have adultery, various forms of what we now classify as murder, incest and other ways of life in ancient times, including group sex & violations of other bodies, including one's own.

Thank the heavens the medical professions who are looking at this mental state & perhaps we can move on from physical &/or chemical castration to something a bit more progressive. Neither of the above have been found to "cure" the person to date, its in the MIND, therefore removing someones genitals will not stop them from using a foreign object or worse, & the chemical alterations of the mind only "work" while this is being physically dispensed to the perp, as it were.

Once out to fend for himself, he will revert back to his natural surroundings and commit more offences against a child or rape victim.

Yes, I wholehearted agree that this is foul & obscene crime against another person, even more vile when perpetrated against a child, of any age! But we must think of ways to put this person beyond the reach of temptation again, until then the debate will continue.

As I said, if it was MY child, then the rules may well change, however wrong it was, the madness I would feel towards this person would not go away until I got REVENGE on him. But I hope and pray nothing like this happens to my child, and yours! We know what we will want to do, some liberalists say that time heals all wounds, but it leaves a mental scar on the child for which no amount of time will ever erase the torment it went through.

But in reality, of course killing the perp will not bring back the innocence that was lost forever, nor the look on the child's face aftewards, nothing in the whole world and beyong will bring back that smile, that helplessness we were not there to stop.

Its bloody awful but we must find a way forward, not revert back to our "natural" instincts, because it does not make us any better human beings, it drags us down to his level, imprisonment maybe, until a "cure" is found but how long will this take?

Certainly he cannot be allowed back into "society" again, at least not for a very long time, and even then, will he ever be "cured" or "learn his lesson"............

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-22 09:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Stoning to death and cutting off hands, all done with dignity. So we now agree this is the way forward in dealing with criminals, whether they are found guilty by an unbiased court, or kangaroo court where gifts under the table can turn the tables for an innocent man or woman, or a child we recently saw having a CAR wheel run over the child's arm for stealing.

Surely he was due to have his hand cut off, but was it his age or the fact he only stole to eat, because he was hungry that this punishment fitted the crime.

We ought to take a good hard look at our Courts & the authorities who permit the guilty to roam the streets but punish instead those who cannot "gift under the table".

The guilty are also the so-called unscrupulous lawyers, the corrupt police or politician. THOSE are the ones who we ought to sort out FIRST before we can claim Goa / India is a democracy with the law behind it, every step of the way.

I have said my peace regarding this incident of child molestation in my previous post & taken this into account, we should also persevere with naming and shaming the authorities and individuals who are responsible for the upkeep of law and order, so that we can witness ourselves that justice is SEEN to be done, and done according to law.

The law itself in some countries is behind Goa's ideals by 200 years, it does not make either law right, or wrong. But if we have consciences we must be able to put JUSTICE before emotions, the Courts are there to help PROVE without a shadow of doubt (under table gifting aside, these people ought to be prosecuted if found guilty & a prison sentence imposed for corruption, there is no other way, a minimum sentence & a large fine with confiscation of property etc as they do with drug dealers & pimps etc).

No more stoning please, no more cutting off hands or other parts, its just not on. If you feel that secure in the Arabian countries, then good for you. I just hope nobody accuses you (falsely or otherwise) of commiting an offence which will mean parting with a hand or leg, or maybe even heaved up a crane by your neck in the market square on a Friday just before prayers........ just to appease a sense of vengence.

This is not justice in the 21st Century.

We must have more reform of the authorities, the police, the prosecutors & others, to ensure a JUST and FAIR verdict. Also help for the perpetrators of crime, after all if they cannot be cured, by the means we have today, then imprisonment for life or a long term in a hospitalised environment is the JUST way to do it. Of course, as I said before, if it was MY CHILD I would probably take a different view, but I would like to be stopped from commiting the acts that were in my mind, in a time of madness & on the verge of murder, bodily mutilation of the person who attacked any one or both of my daughters!

There has to be some form of punishment for all crimes, but also rehabilitation ought to be considered for non-violent or crimes against another human being, or non-sexual crimes.

We must improve our justice system.

It will be another 200 years before there is any change in the Arab World, as far as they are concerned the Holy Quoran stipulates there must be stoning for adulterous liasons, and cutting off of limbs for various misdeeds. I have a copy of the Holy Quoran, it in Arabic with English translation (it was gifted ---- over the table----to me by a Saudi Arabian student on the birth of my daughter-----some 16 years and 9 months ago), along with his condolences because our first child was a daughter (that's another story, but I digress................).

The Catholic Bible has similar ideals for justice being metted out for anti-social behaviour. We do not see Mapuca market being the centre stage for the weekly stoning of adulterers and cutting off bits of your neighbours behind for the naughty party the previous week-end!

I dont mean to make fun or make light the seriousness of child molestation, but really do we need to kill ANYONE for errornous behaviour if a SERIOUS JAIL SENTENCE ranging from 10 years for fondling to LIFE (meaning the rest of your natural LIFE) for sexual assault will deter anyone from commiting such offences against children?

Of course not, otherwise the thieves who learned their lessons in Jeddah market on a friday, including the stoning, hanging, decapitation and shooting of criminals in various parts of the world stopped ANY of the crimes being commited again?

There must be a mountain of hands in a well somewhere. Perhaps we ought to use this punishment for both parties when "gifting under the table................" ??

Of course not, its tempting to have this as a punishment on the statute books but its not the way forward. We MUST get rid of the corruption first, then the Courts can do their job. The Courts are NOT corrupt, the judges have to be guided by the law, but the human beings who are vunerable to accepting a bit of bribery are the ones who need to be removed from society, for an agreed term.

This term should be decided by the judges who are the people who dish out the punishments and are the ones who see on a daily basis several cases a day, and have a pretty good idea how to deal with criminals.

IF we are unhappy with the judgements, then we ought to say so. The politicians also need to get their act together & those who have vested financial interests over a certain sum of money ought to declare this to Parliament and their local constituency also. This will keep the corrupt in line, and those who are KNOWN to be corrupt, removed.

We can then sleep safely in our beds at night, knowing that the next person who commits an offence, has nobody but himself or herself to blame for the offence, but we must put a cap on age of responsibility, for minor offences, no more cars run over childrens' hands or arms, no more chopping off hands for stealing, and no more slaps on the wrist for the child molester, or a battering by a raging and angry mob, filled with hate for someone who has not even been proved in Court of Law that he was guilty of fondling the child.

Even if he WAS found guilty, we ough to have an appropriate sentence with some form of detention in a mental disorder clinic, sex offenders register or the like, to keep an eye on this person for the rest of his or her life.

NO MORE CHOPPING BITS OFF please, this is as offensive as the original crime.

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England.
-------------------------------------------
.....the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail.......... if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation........as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case..........On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.
Sanny de Quepem
--------------------------------------------
Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man..........Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother........................
selma
-------------------------------------------
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-23 11:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Selma
I do appreciate the sheer frustration of some at times but it can never be right for determined people in Goa or elsewhere to take the law into their own hands and in outrageous ways. But even worse was the recent case when a Goan American strongly recommended that, two alleged murderers of a priest in Goa ought to be crucified upside down in public and their organs be "harvested".

I was never clear in the above example, on Goanet, whether the above was an illustration of Indian/Goan speak or American wild-west speak or even vigilante Southern States of America speak. I doubt the proposer of the above remedy for the alleged crime was himself clear about what speak it was even though it had a contemporary American feel about it by virtue of the place from where the posts were being transmitted!!
Cornel

Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-21 07:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com>










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-21 10:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be stoned to death for anything nor should people take the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do not live in medieval days. The law courts in India are able to deal with any criminals who have proper trials and the police force can always be reinforced to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Goans,

These people must be stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?

On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.
Carvalho
2007-10-22 05:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-22 07:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi Elisabeth,
You have forwarded what Cornel wrote, I'm sure you've read what Selma wrote to Cornel, and yet you say that we should not take the law into our hands, at the same time you say that law courts in India are able to deal with criminals, can't you see that the culprits are caught and sent to jail, the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail as if he went visiting his in-laws, if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation? How many innocent victims have been given a fair trial, as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case.

On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.

Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem

zxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----
From: Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:02:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Man arrested for molestation at Bicholim/to Cornel
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com




Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-21 08:49:34 UTC
Permalink
There is a mental problem with these people, stoning them to death will not solve the problem. Temporarily maybe but in the long term, it will not be the solution to this disease. It is a disease, like any other. It is a mental disease but killing off all mental people would be disasterous to the human race.

If it happened to one of my children, yes I would like to string him up myself, after lots of other bodily harm has been perpertrated by me personally. Then afterwards I would cry like a baby, for being so inhumane to another human being.

There are (unsuccessful) treatments about in various parts of the USA & Europe for this type of behaviour, but understanding it is fundamental to finding a solution to this issue.

Until a "cure" is found, keeping the person away from temptation is currently the only "best" response I can give to this problem, which as existed as a way of life in "Ancient Greece" & beyond as a common acceptance.

As have adultery, various forms of what we now classify as murder, incest and other ways of life in ancient times, including group sex & violations of other bodies, including one's own.

Thank the heavens the medical professions who are looking at this mental state & perhaps we can move on from physical &/or chemical castration to something a bit more progressive. Neither of the above have been found to "cure" the person to date, its in the MIND, therefore removing someones genitals will not stop them from using a foreign object or worse, & the chemical alterations of the mind only "work" while this is being physically dispensed to the perp, as it were.

Once out to fend for himself, he will revert back to his natural surroundings and commit more offences against a child or rape victim.

Yes, I wholehearted agree that this is foul & obscene crime against another person, even more vile when perpetrated against a child, of any age! But we must think of ways to put this person beyond the reach of temptation again, until then the debate will continue.

As I said, if it was MY child, then the rules may well change, however wrong it was, the madness I would feel towards this person would not go away until I got REVENGE on him. But I hope and pray nothing like this happens to my child, and yours! We know what we will want to do, some liberalists say that time heals all wounds, but it leaves a mental scar on the child for which no amount of time will ever erase the torment it went through.

But in reality, of course killing the perp will not bring back the innocence that was lost forever, nor the look on the child's face aftewards, nothing in the whole world and beyong will bring back that smile, that helplessness we were not there to stop.

Its bloody awful but we must find a way forward, not revert back to our "natural" instincts, because it does not make us any better human beings, it drags us down to his level, imprisonment maybe, until a "cure" is found but how long will this take?

Certainly he cannot be allowed back into "society" again, at least not for a very long time, and even then, will he ever be "cured" or "learn his lesson"............

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-22 09:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Stoning to death and cutting off hands, all done with dignity. So we now agree this is the way forward in dealing with criminals, whether they are found guilty by an unbiased court, or kangaroo court where gifts under the table can turn the tables for an innocent man or woman, or a child we recently saw having a CAR wheel run over the child's arm for stealing.

Surely he was due to have his hand cut off, but was it his age or the fact he only stole to eat, because he was hungry that this punishment fitted the crime.

We ought to take a good hard look at our Courts & the authorities who permit the guilty to roam the streets but punish instead those who cannot "gift under the table".

The guilty are also the so-called unscrupulous lawyers, the corrupt police or politician. THOSE are the ones who we ought to sort out FIRST before we can claim Goa / India is a democracy with the law behind it, every step of the way.

I have said my peace regarding this incident of child molestation in my previous post & taken this into account, we should also persevere with naming and shaming the authorities and individuals who are responsible for the upkeep of law and order, so that we can witness ourselves that justice is SEEN to be done, and done according to law.

The law itself in some countries is behind Goa's ideals by 200 years, it does not make either law right, or wrong. But if we have consciences we must be able to put JUSTICE before emotions, the Courts are there to help PROVE without a shadow of doubt (under table gifting aside, these people ought to be prosecuted if found guilty & a prison sentence imposed for corruption, there is no other way, a minimum sentence & a large fine with confiscation of property etc as they do with drug dealers & pimps etc).

No more stoning please, no more cutting off hands or other parts, its just not on. If you feel that secure in the Arabian countries, then good for you. I just hope nobody accuses you (falsely or otherwise) of commiting an offence which will mean parting with a hand or leg, or maybe even heaved up a crane by your neck in the market square on a Friday just before prayers........ just to appease a sense of vengence.

This is not justice in the 21st Century.

We must have more reform of the authorities, the police, the prosecutors & others, to ensure a JUST and FAIR verdict. Also help for the perpetrators of crime, after all if they cannot be cured, by the means we have today, then imprisonment for life or a long term in a hospitalised environment is the JUST way to do it. Of course, as I said before, if it was MY CHILD I would probably take a different view, but I would like to be stopped from commiting the acts that were in my mind, in a time of madness & on the verge of murder, bodily mutilation of the person who attacked any one or both of my daughters!

There has to be some form of punishment for all crimes, but also rehabilitation ought to be considered for non-violent or crimes against another human being, or non-sexual crimes.

We must improve our justice system.

It will be another 200 years before there is any change in the Arab World, as far as they are concerned the Holy Quoran stipulates there must be stoning for adulterous liasons, and cutting off of limbs for various misdeeds. I have a copy of the Holy Quoran, it in Arabic with English translation (it was gifted ---- over the table----to me by a Saudi Arabian student on the birth of my daughter-----some 16 years and 9 months ago), along with his condolences because our first child was a daughter (that's another story, but I digress................).

The Catholic Bible has similar ideals for justice being metted out for anti-social behaviour. We do not see Mapuca market being the centre stage for the weekly stoning of adulterers and cutting off bits of your neighbours behind for the naughty party the previous week-end!

I dont mean to make fun or make light the seriousness of child molestation, but really do we need to kill ANYONE for errornous behaviour if a SERIOUS JAIL SENTENCE ranging from 10 years for fondling to LIFE (meaning the rest of your natural LIFE) for sexual assault will deter anyone from commiting such offences against children?

Of course not, otherwise the thieves who learned their lessons in Jeddah market on a friday, including the stoning, hanging, decapitation and shooting of criminals in various parts of the world stopped ANY of the crimes being commited again?

There must be a mountain of hands in a well somewhere. Perhaps we ought to use this punishment for both parties when "gifting under the table................" ??

Of course not, its tempting to have this as a punishment on the statute books but its not the way forward. We MUST get rid of the corruption first, then the Courts can do their job. The Courts are NOT corrupt, the judges have to be guided by the law, but the human beings who are vunerable to accepting a bit of bribery are the ones who need to be removed from society, for an agreed term.

This term should be decided by the judges who are the people who dish out the punishments and are the ones who see on a daily basis several cases a day, and have a pretty good idea how to deal with criminals.

IF we are unhappy with the judgements, then we ought to say so. The politicians also need to get their act together & those who have vested financial interests over a certain sum of money ought to declare this to Parliament and their local constituency also. This will keep the corrupt in line, and those who are KNOWN to be corrupt, removed.

We can then sleep safely in our beds at night, knowing that the next person who commits an offence, has nobody but himself or herself to blame for the offence, but we must put a cap on age of responsibility, for minor offences, no more cars run over childrens' hands or arms, no more chopping off hands for stealing, and no more slaps on the wrist for the child molester, or a battering by a raging and angry mob, filled with hate for someone who has not even been proved in Court of Law that he was guilty of fondling the child.

Even if he WAS found guilty, we ough to have an appropriate sentence with some form of detention in a mental disorder clinic, sex offenders register or the like, to keep an eye on this person for the rest of his or her life.

NO MORE CHOPPING BITS OFF please, this is as offensive as the original crime.

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England.
-------------------------------------------
.....the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail.......... if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation........as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case..........On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.
Sanny de Quepem
--------------------------------------------
Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man..........Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother........................
selma
-------------------------------------------
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-23 11:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Selma
I do appreciate the sheer frustration of some at times but it can never be right for determined people in Goa or elsewhere to take the law into their own hands and in outrageous ways. But even worse was the recent case when a Goan American strongly recommended that, two alleged murderers of a priest in Goa ought to be crucified upside down in public and their organs be "harvested".

I was never clear in the above example, on Goanet, whether the above was an illustration of Indian/Goan speak or American wild-west speak or even vigilante Southern States of America speak. I doubt the proposer of the above remedy for the alleged crime was himself clear about what speak it was even though it had a contemporary American feel about it by virtue of the place from where the posts were being transmitted!!
Cornel

Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-21 07:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com>










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-21 10:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be stoned to death for anything nor should people take the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do not live in medieval days. The law courts in India are able to deal with any criminals who have proper trials and the police force can always be reinforced to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Goans,

These people must be stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?

On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.
Carvalho
2007-10-22 05:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-22 07:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi Elisabeth,
You have forwarded what Cornel wrote, I'm sure you've read what Selma wrote to Cornel, and yet you say that we should not take the law into our hands, at the same time you say that law courts in India are able to deal with criminals, can't you see that the culprits are caught and sent to jail, the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail as if he went visiting his in-laws, if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation? How many innocent victims have been given a fair trial, as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case.

On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.

Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem

zxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----
From: Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:02:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Man arrested for molestation at Bicholim/to Cornel
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com




Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-21 08:49:34 UTC
Permalink
There is a mental problem with these people, stoning them to death will not solve the problem. Temporarily maybe but in the long term, it will not be the solution to this disease. It is a disease, like any other. It is a mental disease but killing off all mental people would be disasterous to the human race.

If it happened to one of my children, yes I would like to string him up myself, after lots of other bodily harm has been perpertrated by me personally. Then afterwards I would cry like a baby, for being so inhumane to another human being.

There are (unsuccessful) treatments about in various parts of the USA & Europe for this type of behaviour, but understanding it is fundamental to finding a solution to this issue.

Until a "cure" is found, keeping the person away from temptation is currently the only "best" response I can give to this problem, which as existed as a way of life in "Ancient Greece" & beyond as a common acceptance.

As have adultery, various forms of what we now classify as murder, incest and other ways of life in ancient times, including group sex & violations of other bodies, including one's own.

Thank the heavens the medical professions who are looking at this mental state & perhaps we can move on from physical &/or chemical castration to something a bit more progressive. Neither of the above have been found to "cure" the person to date, its in the MIND, therefore removing someones genitals will not stop them from using a foreign object or worse, & the chemical alterations of the mind only "work" while this is being physically dispensed to the perp, as it were.

Once out to fend for himself, he will revert back to his natural surroundings and commit more offences against a child or rape victim.

Yes, I wholehearted agree that this is foul & obscene crime against another person, even more vile when perpetrated against a child, of any age! But we must think of ways to put this person beyond the reach of temptation again, until then the debate will continue.

As I said, if it was MY child, then the rules may well change, however wrong it was, the madness I would feel towards this person would not go away until I got REVENGE on him. But I hope and pray nothing like this happens to my child, and yours! We know what we will want to do, some liberalists say that time heals all wounds, but it leaves a mental scar on the child for which no amount of time will ever erase the torment it went through.

But in reality, of course killing the perp will not bring back the innocence that was lost forever, nor the look on the child's face aftewards, nothing in the whole world and beyong will bring back that smile, that helplessness we were not there to stop.

Its bloody awful but we must find a way forward, not revert back to our "natural" instincts, because it does not make us any better human beings, it drags us down to his level, imprisonment maybe, until a "cure" is found but how long will this take?

Certainly he cannot be allowed back into "society" again, at least not for a very long time, and even then, will he ever be "cured" or "learn his lesson"............

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-22 09:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Stoning to death and cutting off hands, all done with dignity. So we now agree this is the way forward in dealing with criminals, whether they are found guilty by an unbiased court, or kangaroo court where gifts under the table can turn the tables for an innocent man or woman, or a child we recently saw having a CAR wheel run over the child's arm for stealing.

Surely he was due to have his hand cut off, but was it his age or the fact he only stole to eat, because he was hungry that this punishment fitted the crime.

We ought to take a good hard look at our Courts & the authorities who permit the guilty to roam the streets but punish instead those who cannot "gift under the table".

The guilty are also the so-called unscrupulous lawyers, the corrupt police or politician. THOSE are the ones who we ought to sort out FIRST before we can claim Goa / India is a democracy with the law behind it, every step of the way.

I have said my peace regarding this incident of child molestation in my previous post & taken this into account, we should also persevere with naming and shaming the authorities and individuals who are responsible for the upkeep of law and order, so that we can witness ourselves that justice is SEEN to be done, and done according to law.

The law itself in some countries is behind Goa's ideals by 200 years, it does not make either law right, or wrong. But if we have consciences we must be able to put JUSTICE before emotions, the Courts are there to help PROVE without a shadow of doubt (under table gifting aside, these people ought to be prosecuted if found guilty & a prison sentence imposed for corruption, there is no other way, a minimum sentence & a large fine with confiscation of property etc as they do with drug dealers & pimps etc).

No more stoning please, no more cutting off hands or other parts, its just not on. If you feel that secure in the Arabian countries, then good for you. I just hope nobody accuses you (falsely or otherwise) of commiting an offence which will mean parting with a hand or leg, or maybe even heaved up a crane by your neck in the market square on a Friday just before prayers........ just to appease a sense of vengence.

This is not justice in the 21st Century.

We must have more reform of the authorities, the police, the prosecutors & others, to ensure a JUST and FAIR verdict. Also help for the perpetrators of crime, after all if they cannot be cured, by the means we have today, then imprisonment for life or a long term in a hospitalised environment is the JUST way to do it. Of course, as I said before, if it was MY CHILD I would probably take a different view, but I would like to be stopped from commiting the acts that were in my mind, in a time of madness & on the verge of murder, bodily mutilation of the person who attacked any one or both of my daughters!

There has to be some form of punishment for all crimes, but also rehabilitation ought to be considered for non-violent or crimes against another human being, or non-sexual crimes.

We must improve our justice system.

It will be another 200 years before there is any change in the Arab World, as far as they are concerned the Holy Quoran stipulates there must be stoning for adulterous liasons, and cutting off of limbs for various misdeeds. I have a copy of the Holy Quoran, it in Arabic with English translation (it was gifted ---- over the table----to me by a Saudi Arabian student on the birth of my daughter-----some 16 years and 9 months ago), along with his condolences because our first child was a daughter (that's another story, but I digress................).

The Catholic Bible has similar ideals for justice being metted out for anti-social behaviour. We do not see Mapuca market being the centre stage for the weekly stoning of adulterers and cutting off bits of your neighbours behind for the naughty party the previous week-end!

I dont mean to make fun or make light the seriousness of child molestation, but really do we need to kill ANYONE for errornous behaviour if a SERIOUS JAIL SENTENCE ranging from 10 years for fondling to LIFE (meaning the rest of your natural LIFE) for sexual assault will deter anyone from commiting such offences against children?

Of course not, otherwise the thieves who learned their lessons in Jeddah market on a friday, including the stoning, hanging, decapitation and shooting of criminals in various parts of the world stopped ANY of the crimes being commited again?

There must be a mountain of hands in a well somewhere. Perhaps we ought to use this punishment for both parties when "gifting under the table................" ??

Of course not, its tempting to have this as a punishment on the statute books but its not the way forward. We MUST get rid of the corruption first, then the Courts can do their job. The Courts are NOT corrupt, the judges have to be guided by the law, but the human beings who are vunerable to accepting a bit of bribery are the ones who need to be removed from society, for an agreed term.

This term should be decided by the judges who are the people who dish out the punishments and are the ones who see on a daily basis several cases a day, and have a pretty good idea how to deal with criminals.

IF we are unhappy with the judgements, then we ought to say so. The politicians also need to get their act together & those who have vested financial interests over a certain sum of money ought to declare this to Parliament and their local constituency also. This will keep the corrupt in line, and those who are KNOWN to be corrupt, removed.

We can then sleep safely in our beds at night, knowing that the next person who commits an offence, has nobody but himself or herself to blame for the offence, but we must put a cap on age of responsibility, for minor offences, no more cars run over childrens' hands or arms, no more chopping off hands for stealing, and no more slaps on the wrist for the child molester, or a battering by a raging and angry mob, filled with hate for someone who has not even been proved in Court of Law that he was guilty of fondling the child.

Even if he WAS found guilty, we ough to have an appropriate sentence with some form of detention in a mental disorder clinic, sex offenders register or the like, to keep an eye on this person for the rest of his or her life.

NO MORE CHOPPING BITS OFF please, this is as offensive as the original crime.

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England.
-------------------------------------------
.....the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail.......... if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation........as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case..........On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.
Sanny de Quepem
--------------------------------------------
Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man..........Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother........................
selma
-------------------------------------------
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-23 11:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Selma
I do appreciate the sheer frustration of some at times but it can never be right for determined people in Goa or elsewhere to take the law into their own hands and in outrageous ways. But even worse was the recent case when a Goan American strongly recommended that, two alleged murderers of a priest in Goa ought to be crucified upside down in public and their organs be "harvested".

I was never clear in the above example, on Goanet, whether the above was an illustration of Indian/Goan speak or American wild-west speak or even vigilante Southern States of America speak. I doubt the proposer of the above remedy for the alleged crime was himself clear about what speak it was even though it had a contemporary American feel about it by virtue of the place from where the posts were being transmitted!!
Cornel

Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-21 07:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com>










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-21 10:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be stoned to death for anything nor should people take the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do not live in medieval days. The law courts in India are able to deal with any criminals who have proper trials and the police force can always be reinforced to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Goans,

These people must be stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?

On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.
Carvalho
2007-10-22 05:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Sanny de Quepem
2007-10-22 07:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi Elisabeth,
You have forwarded what Cornel wrote, I'm sure you've read what Selma wrote to Cornel, and yet you say that we should not take the law into our hands, at the same time you say that law courts in India are able to deal with criminals, can't you see that the culprits are caught and sent to jail, the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail as if he went visiting his in-laws, if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation? How many innocent victims have been given a fair trial, as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case.

On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.

Mog assumdi,
Tumcho khalto,
Sanny de Quepem

zxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----
From: Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:02:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Man arrested for molestation at Bicholim/to Cornel
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Sanny
I do not believe that anybody anywhere should be
stoned to death for anything nor should people take
the law into their own hands as you suggest.. We do
not live in medieval days. The law courts in India
are able to deal with any criminals who have proper
trials and the police force can always be reinforced
to be better fit for purpose.
Cornel
----------------------------------------
Dear Cornel,

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

selma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com




Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-21 08:49:34 UTC
Permalink
There is a mental problem with these people, stoning them to death will not solve the problem. Temporarily maybe but in the long term, it will not be the solution to this disease. It is a disease, like any other. It is a mental disease but killing off all mental people would be disasterous to the human race.

If it happened to one of my children, yes I would like to string him up myself, after lots of other bodily harm has been perpertrated by me personally. Then afterwards I would cry like a baby, for being so inhumane to another human being.

There are (unsuccessful) treatments about in various parts of the USA & Europe for this type of behaviour, but understanding it is fundamental to finding a solution to this issue.

Until a "cure" is found, keeping the person away from temptation is currently the only "best" response I can give to this problem, which as existed as a way of life in "Ancient Greece" & beyond as a common acceptance.

As have adultery, various forms of what we now classify as murder, incest and other ways of life in ancient times, including group sex & violations of other bodies, including one's own.

Thank the heavens the medical professions who are looking at this mental state & perhaps we can move on from physical &/or chemical castration to something a bit more progressive. Neither of the above have been found to "cure" the person to date, its in the MIND, therefore removing someones genitals will not stop them from using a foreign object or worse, & the chemical alterations of the mind only "work" while this is being physically dispensed to the perp, as it were.

Once out to fend for himself, he will revert back to his natural surroundings and commit more offences against a child or rape victim.

Yes, I wholehearted agree that this is foul & obscene crime against another person, even more vile when perpetrated against a child, of any age! But we must think of ways to put this person beyond the reach of temptation again, until then the debate will continue.

As I said, if it was MY child, then the rules may well change, however wrong it was, the madness I would feel towards this person would not go away until I got REVENGE on him. But I hope and pray nothing like this happens to my child, and yours! We know what we will want to do, some liberalists say that time heals all wounds, but it leaves a mental scar on the child for which no amount of time will ever erase the torment it went through.

But in reality, of course killing the perp will not bring back the innocence that was lost forever, nor the look on the child's face aftewards, nothing in the whole world and beyong will bring back that smile, that helplessness we were not there to stop.

Its bloody awful but we must find a way forward, not revert back to our "natural" instincts, because it does not make us any better human beings, it drags us down to his level, imprisonment maybe, until a "cure" is found but how long will this take?

Certainly he cannot be allowed back into "society" again, at least not for a very long time, and even then, will he ever be "cured" or "learn his lesson"............

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England

Sanny de Quepem <samir1322 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear Goans,


We have always blamed the FOREIGNERS for such deeds, due to
which we fail to observe culprits living among us, who put up a saintly face while
in public but while out of sight the SATAN is in action. These people must be
stoned to death like the do in the Arabian Gulf
for committing adultery. Do you agree with me?





On the other hand such people must not be handed over to the
Police cause they are too lenient, the public must first take against such
people and then give the police a lame victim with broken bones.





Mog assumdi,


Tumcho khalto,


Sanny de Quepem





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Man
arrested for molestation at Bicholim


NT News Service


Bicholim, Oct 20 The Bicholim police today arrested Shabani Dessai
(43) for allegedly molesting a 10- year old girl studying in class V. The
accused was caught today by the parents of victim girl when he had come to
leave his child to the school and he was later handed over to the police.


The Bicholim police inspector, Mr Braz Menezes revealed that an
offence has been registered under Section 354 of the Indian Penal Code and
Section 8(1) of the Goa State Children?s Act.


The accused was produced in the court and remanded to two days
police custody by the JMFC, Bicholim. According to the investigating officer,
the incident took place on October 16 between 7.30 a.m. and 7.45 a.m. near the premises
of a school at Bicholim. The accused molested the girl when she was on her way
to school.


The administrator of the school, Mr Kotin Dias disclosed the
entire incidence to the police today. The police rushed to the site and
arrested the accused. Mr Tukaram Walke is investigating the case under the
supervision of PI, Mr Menezes.


http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=10216





Sanny de Quepem










Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
JOHN MONTEIRO
2007-10-22 09:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Stoning to death and cutting off hands, all done with dignity. So we now agree this is the way forward in dealing with criminals, whether they are found guilty by an unbiased court, or kangaroo court where gifts under the table can turn the tables for an innocent man or woman, or a child we recently saw having a CAR wheel run over the child's arm for stealing.

Surely he was due to have his hand cut off, but was it his age or the fact he only stole to eat, because he was hungry that this punishment fitted the crime.

We ought to take a good hard look at our Courts & the authorities who permit the guilty to roam the streets but punish instead those who cannot "gift under the table".

The guilty are also the so-called unscrupulous lawyers, the corrupt police or politician. THOSE are the ones who we ought to sort out FIRST before we can claim Goa / India is a democracy with the law behind it, every step of the way.

I have said my peace regarding this incident of child molestation in my previous post & taken this into account, we should also persevere with naming and shaming the authorities and individuals who are responsible for the upkeep of law and order, so that we can witness ourselves that justice is SEEN to be done, and done according to law.

The law itself in some countries is behind Goa's ideals by 200 years, it does not make either law right, or wrong. But if we have consciences we must be able to put JUSTICE before emotions, the Courts are there to help PROVE without a shadow of doubt (under table gifting aside, these people ought to be prosecuted if found guilty & a prison sentence imposed for corruption, there is no other way, a minimum sentence & a large fine with confiscation of property etc as they do with drug dealers & pimps etc).

No more stoning please, no more cutting off hands or other parts, its just not on. If you feel that secure in the Arabian countries, then good for you. I just hope nobody accuses you (falsely or otherwise) of commiting an offence which will mean parting with a hand or leg, or maybe even heaved up a crane by your neck in the market square on a Friday just before prayers........ just to appease a sense of vengence.

This is not justice in the 21st Century.

We must have more reform of the authorities, the police, the prosecutors & others, to ensure a JUST and FAIR verdict. Also help for the perpetrators of crime, after all if they cannot be cured, by the means we have today, then imprisonment for life or a long term in a hospitalised environment is the JUST way to do it. Of course, as I said before, if it was MY CHILD I would probably take a different view, but I would like to be stopped from commiting the acts that were in my mind, in a time of madness & on the verge of murder, bodily mutilation of the person who attacked any one or both of my daughters!

There has to be some form of punishment for all crimes, but also rehabilitation ought to be considered for non-violent or crimes against another human being, or non-sexual crimes.

We must improve our justice system.

It will be another 200 years before there is any change in the Arab World, as far as they are concerned the Holy Quoran stipulates there must be stoning for adulterous liasons, and cutting off of limbs for various misdeeds. I have a copy of the Holy Quoran, it in Arabic with English translation (it was gifted ---- over the table----to me by a Saudi Arabian student on the birth of my daughter-----some 16 years and 9 months ago), along with his condolences because our first child was a daughter (that's another story, but I digress................).

The Catholic Bible has similar ideals for justice being metted out for anti-social behaviour. We do not see Mapuca market being the centre stage for the weekly stoning of adulterers and cutting off bits of your neighbours behind for the naughty party the previous week-end!

I dont mean to make fun or make light the seriousness of child molestation, but really do we need to kill ANYONE for errornous behaviour if a SERIOUS JAIL SENTENCE ranging from 10 years for fondling to LIFE (meaning the rest of your natural LIFE) for sexual assault will deter anyone from commiting such offences against children?

Of course not, otherwise the thieves who learned their lessons in Jeddah market on a friday, including the stoning, hanging, decapitation and shooting of criminals in various parts of the world stopped ANY of the crimes being commited again?

There must be a mountain of hands in a well somewhere. Perhaps we ought to use this punishment for both parties when "gifting under the table................" ??

Of course not, its tempting to have this as a punishment on the statute books but its not the way forward. We MUST get rid of the corruption first, then the Courts can do their job. The Courts are NOT corrupt, the judges have to be guided by the law, but the human beings who are vunerable to accepting a bit of bribery are the ones who need to be removed from society, for an agreed term.

This term should be decided by the judges who are the people who dish out the punishments and are the ones who see on a daily basis several cases a day, and have a pretty good idea how to deal with criminals.

IF we are unhappy with the judgements, then we ought to say so. The politicians also need to get their act together & those who have vested financial interests over a certain sum of money ought to declare this to Parliament and their local constituency also. This will keep the corrupt in line, and those who are KNOWN to be corrupt, removed.

We can then sleep safely in our beds at night, knowing that the next person who commits an offence, has nobody but himself or herself to blame for the offence, but we must put a cap on age of responsibility, for minor offences, no more cars run over childrens' hands or arms, no more chopping off hands for stealing, and no more slaps on the wrist for the child molester, or a battering by a raging and angry mob, filled with hate for someone who has not even been proved in Court of Law that he was guilty of fondling the child.

Even if he WAS found guilty, we ough to have an appropriate sentence with some form of detention in a mental disorder clinic, sex offenders register or the like, to keep an eye on this person for the rest of his or her life.

NO MORE CHOPPING BITS OFF please, this is as offensive as the original crime.

John Monteiro
Berkshire, England.
-------------------------------------------
.....the very next day the same man is walking out of the jail.......... if this little girl was your own daughter how would you have reacted to this situation........as you know our ministers have their links everywhere and a small under-table gift will close the case..........On the other hand Mr. Cornel Stoning to death even was enforced much before BC, and to date is still implemented with dignity in Arabian Gulf along with Public killing of criminals and chopping hands of thieves. which I have personally witnessed while in Saudi Arabia.
Sanny de Quepem
--------------------------------------------
Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man..........Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother........................
selma
-------------------------------------------
CORNEL DACOSTA
2007-10-23 11:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Selma
I do appreciate the sheer frustration of some at times but it can never be right for determined people in Goa or elsewhere to take the law into their own hands and in outrageous ways. But even worse was the recent case when a Goan American strongly recommended that, two alleged murderers of a priest in Goa ought to be crucified upside down in public and their organs be "harvested".

I was never clear in the above example, on Goanet, whether the above was an illustration of Indian/Goan speak or American wild-west speak or even vigilante Southern States of America speak. I doubt the proposer of the above remedy for the alleged crime was himself clear about what speak it was even though it had a contemporary American feel about it by virtue of the place from where the posts were being transmitted!!
Cornel

Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

This is what Goa has turned into; a lawless jungle of
arbitrary action. The law is ineffective, corrupt and
unable to aid the common man. The common man inturn
has become a vigilante, little realising that such
action has no place in civilised society. This brings
to mind cowboy Westerns set in the early 19th century,
where frenzied mobs would circle prisons to lynch
inmates.

Heaven forbid if the girl had mistakenly identified an
innocent man. Heaven forbid if such an innocent man
were to be beaten to death. Heaven forbid if such an
innocent man were my father, brother or husband. We
reap what we sow in a society.

Loading...