Discussion:
From Lisbon to Toronto Part I
(too old to reply)
maria gomes
2008-08-11 19:29:19 UTC
Permalink
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I

Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.

And I am really glad I made it!

The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.

"It is my great pleasure to bring you warmest greetings from Casa de Goa in Lisbon, in particular from the President, Prof. Narana Coissoro, who deeply regrets not being here, as well as from the other members of the Managing Board and all the associates. In spirit they are here sharing the sense of togetherness and of a common commitment to Goa and to the reception countries where goan communities have carved a place and a role for themselves.

When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so. Their promise was our guarantee ? the rest, organisational details, programme, etc. would come later. And it did!

I was just looking at some photos of the Lisbon Convention recently and I realised that 2 of those photos pointed to the future ? the group of very young violinists who during the closing ceremony, filled a few eyes with tears when they interpreted a verse of our very beautiful mand? Sontos bhogt? r? jivak? and another photo of all our participants from aboard with the Saldanhas in the first row, a few moments before the conclusions were read and the responsibility had been passed on.

If the theme for the Lisbon Convention ? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention ? Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

Certainly this is not the place for a debate on the notion of ethnicity and of its different indicators. We are aware that there are different opinions on this sensitive issue but we think it would be relatively easy to accept that the Goan communities in the diaspora are groups that often share a national identity, but preserve specific cultural traditions, norms and references, that are distinct from those of the reception country.

We are deeply convinced that such cultural identity has to be cherished in order to reinforce the sense of individuality of our children understood in John Blacking?s definition as a "consequence of sharing with others, in a variety of social and emotional situations, experiences derived from capabilities that are common to the species, such as the abilities to feel joy, sadness and excitement, to categorize, to abstract and transform, to speak a language and to learn and transmit skills".

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.

Networking capacity is one of the reasons we are here today. It is so much easier to be in contact and to exchange opinions, ideas, facts and mutual concerns about Goa and ourselves. At Casa de Goa we continue to be ready to be part of networking in the diaspora and to put our skills at the service of the global Goan community. We hope to strengthen our ties with other Associations during this week and we look forward to working together with all of you in the future.

Casa de Goa is the house of all Goans and their friends in Lisbon and therefore we wish to offer all of you a standing invitation to visit us".

For those of you who are interested in reading some more about the objectives, the participants and the programme of the Lisbon Convention, you are welcome to go to www.casadegoa.org and look up the information on the Convention of the Goan Diaspora.

In order to set the record straight, I need to go back to last year.

I was sitting by the computer regretting that we had not been able to convince anyone from Canada or from Australia to come to Lisbon. Knowing what huge Goan communities live in both countries, it was a setback. We were very glad of the final confirmation that a number of young participants from Goa (Wendell Rodricks, Jason Keith Fernandes, Clinton Vaz, Ethel da Costa and Chandan Bandekar) would be attending and that all of them were prepared either to make presentations (the first three) or to organise a painting exhibition with the contributions of young contemporary Goan painters (the last two). It was just then that I received an e-mail from Kevin and wrote back immediately that he and Lisette were most welcome to join us which they did.

Like other participants, they paid an enrolment fee and took care of their expenses.

It was part of the objectives of the Lisbon Convention to carry the process further and not to loose the momentum and the very strong ties that had been forged among representatives of so many communities in the diaspora. We had not taken any decision on whether it should be an individual or an association; it did not seem important at the time because any association would be represented by one or more individuals anyway and it would be up to them to garner the support of the other associations in their country.
In our understanding (as I wrote to Eugene on the 1st of August in reply to a direct query from him) Kevin and Lisette were given the opportunity to host the 2008 Convention simply because they offered to do so. In fact, as referred to in the memorandum of understanding before the conclusions in Lisbon "Kevin and Lisette Saldanha, on behalf of the Goanetters Association of Toronto, have expressed their intention of coordinating the various organisations that will participate in the next Convention of the Goan Diaspora, in Canada, in 2008, the significance being the 20th anniversary of the international convention held in that country, in 1988".

Therefore, Casa de Goa was very glad to have the torch carried by Kevin, Lisette, the GNAT and whoever else would be part of the effort and support the Convention in any capacity.
Let me come back to the present and to the reasons for the success of the Toronto Convention. I will not go into a detailed description not only because I arrived at the end of the 1st day but because others have already done so much better than I could have done.

Because of the late arrival I did not attend the workshops. I did sit for a while in Victor?s creative writing workshop where everyone was most interested in defining what the horse said to the bear when they both met in the forest (and from the very creative lines of dialogue that came from participants, I can assure you there was a lot of imagination, humour, and literary talent in that room, and environmental concerns too! I also did hear of how much fun and "inside" designer?s information there was for participants in Wendell?s workshop, and of his charm as well!

Virginia Bras Gomes

(to be followed)
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Gabe Menezes
2008-08-11 22:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by maria gomes
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I
Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.
And I am really glad I made it!
The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like Casa de Goa, were
given the honour of hosting the Convention.

I have asked this question here to no avail, could you tell me how the
Convention was allocated to Canada, what was the basis of
acceptability; similarly what was the basis of the, so called
allocation to London?

All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions asked. Could I
turn up at the next convention and declare that I am taking the
convention to Timbuctoo?
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2008-08-12 01:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Dear Gabe,
???? Let me repeat my incomplete message, and add to it:
?
Dear Gabe,
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
???? Very best regards,
???? Victor
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-12 07:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Gabe,
Dear Gabe,
To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
Very best regards,
Victor
Dear Victor,

Thank you, for taking the time and effort to respond to my question. Take care.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-12 07:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Gabe,
Dear Gabe,
To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
Very best regards,
Victor
Dear Victor,

Thank you, for taking the time and effort to respond to my question. Take care.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-12 07:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Gabe,
Dear Gabe,
To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
Very best regards,
Victor
Dear Victor,

Thank you, for taking the time and effort to respond to my question. Take care.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-12 07:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Gabe,
Dear Gabe,
To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
Very best regards,
Victor
Dear Victor,

Thank you, for taking the time and effort to respond to my question. Take care.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-12 07:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Gabe,
Dear Gabe,
To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
Very best regards,
Victor
Dear Victor,

Thank you, for taking the time and effort to respond to my question. Take care.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-12 07:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Gabe,
Dear Gabe,
To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
Very best regards,
Victor
Dear Victor,

Thank you, for taking the time and effort to respond to my question. Take care.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-12 07:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Gabe,
Dear Gabe,
To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
Very best regards,
Victor
Dear Victor,

Thank you, for taking the time and effort to respond to my question. Take care.
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 09:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Victor
I took absolutely no "umbrage" at Rene informing me
in Toronto that the next Goan Convention would be held
in London. I was most surprised at this totally
unexpected news when informed personally by Rene and
expressed my reservations about the wisdom of doing so
in such a short period of time. I am used to a lead
time of about two years to set up a sound base when
organising an international convention/conference in a
very large city like London. I happen to have
organised very successful one-week residential ones in
a professional capacity and was therefore awed by
Kevin's ability to have generated a very successful
Convention in Toronto in such a short period of time.
Again, I thank him and his committee sincerely for
this major achievement and for something I definitely
enjoyed for the intellectual stimulus it provided, for
the very appropriate social programme and the
networking provision.

As to who organises such a Convention is really not my
business at all assuming a modicum of support for it
is generated to make it a success.
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who
may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not
question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in
Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed
to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of
holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was
running high, and many people thought it was an
excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to
hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at
it, and perhaps some others will.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gabe
Good questions from you that are now at least
partially addressed by Victor.

I can assure you that were you to organise such a
Convention to a really exotic place like Timbuctoo,
many people, including me, could not resist the urge
to attend. So, is this Timbuctoo Convention a firm
offer from you then Gabe? I'd need to start saving up
for it immediately. On TV recently, the mystery of
Timbuctoo was presented brilliantly and I would have
no hesitation in assisting you to organise a
Convention there! I am right behind you on this one
Gabe!
Regards
Cornel
Post by Gabe Menezes
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like
Casa de Goa, were given the honour of hosting the
Convention.
Post by Gabe Menezes
I have asked this question here to no avail, could
you tell me how the Convention was allocated to
Canada, what was the basis of acceptability; similarly
what was the basis of the, so called
Post by Gabe Menezes
allocation to London?
All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions
asked. Could I turn up at the next convention and
declare that I am taking the convention to Timbuctoo?
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-08-13 04:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Maria,
?
With the traditional Goan politeness,?I ask you to?please enlighten us on the "individual and collective achievements" of Goans that were recognized in Lisbon and Toronto?? This phrase was repeated several times in?your article.
?
If the Casa de Goa was celebrating Goan achievements, the achievers from various parts of the Goan world should have been invited, given awards and would have been there to receive them.? From what I can see the same set of (3-5) "achievers" who were trumpeted in?Lisbon were recognized in Toronto.? Is that all that native?and Diaspora Goans have as achievers??
?
Perhaps the first step is for?Goan leaders to know the Goan achievers. Not just the ones whose friends and relatives one knows.? Hopefully we have moved from?'amchem tempar'..? More Goans today have been recognized by the world around them than by Goans.
?
This by no means is to underplay the efforts and the success of the two conventions. But pray, please lets 'walk the talk', at least in the 21st century.
?
Your second paragraph?totally contradicts subsequent?ones. (see below)?Goans are no longer stupid.? That is what the Toronto Goans displayed in unison and likely the majority of Portugal's Goans.? Goan conventions to be truly successful have to be joined by the plebeians / proletariat. The colonial attitude of participation by the fidalgos,?patricians?and the 'gireskai' are long over.? Participation by the en-mass?can be done. Check out Toronto's?Viva Goa!
?
With all due respects if Casa de Goa, Lisbon,?had an analysis of the needs of average Goans? in Portugal and ways to make the convention have a broad appeal, the Toronto convention could have followed on it; and?have had more success. Clearly a lot of effort at both conventions (and other Goan conventions) was put into the pizzaz, with little?attention for programs for?practical use of the community.? Perhaps our conventions?need a program sub-committee (among others) apart from the main organizing committee.?
?
As an example,?at the Toronto convention, were other artists invited to showcase their creative works? What would it have taken to do so???So in addition to displaying our?best artist, amateurs Goans can also be given exposure and recognition.?I know of Goans who are adept at painting, pencil drawings and stained glass creativity.? Some of them sell their art work at museum shops in the USA. Right now, recognition at Goan conventions appears to be given based on "whom you know."? When will we shed our parochial mind set??
?
Having said the above, the convention organizers should hold their heads high and consider this as a major contribution to the Goan community, and?an experience they will treasure.? We in turn should thank them for their contributions and service. This, as the baton is passed seamlessly to the next batch / generation of organizers, while the past organizers?serve as "Chairperson of the Board". Part of a good committee is to train the next group to step-up to the plate.? That is where working on sub-committee are good training grounds. Let me call on the organizers to share their own experience (positive and negative) so that future organizers of Goan conventions can learn. Thus we do not repeat the same issues and face the same?dilemmas, as was experienced in Toronto and perhaps Lisbon.? We need a Goan organization and a convention that serves the community and not the reverse.
?
Regards, GL?
?
------------- ?maria gomes <sontos at hotmail.com>
?
When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so.
?
If the theme for the Lisbon Convention? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention?Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.
maria gomes
2008-08-11 19:29:19 UTC
Permalink
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I

Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.

And I am really glad I made it!

The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.

"It is my great pleasure to bring you warmest greetings from Casa de Goa in Lisbon, in particular from the President, Prof. Narana Coissoro, who deeply regrets not being here, as well as from the other members of the Managing Board and all the associates. In spirit they are here sharing the sense of togetherness and of a common commitment to Goa and to the reception countries where goan communities have carved a place and a role for themselves.

When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so. Their promise was our guarantee ? the rest, organisational details, programme, etc. would come later. And it did!

I was just looking at some photos of the Lisbon Convention recently and I realised that 2 of those photos pointed to the future ? the group of very young violinists who during the closing ceremony, filled a few eyes with tears when they interpreted a verse of our very beautiful mand? Sontos bhogt? r? jivak? and another photo of all our participants from aboard with the Saldanhas in the first row, a few moments before the conclusions were read and the responsibility had been passed on.

If the theme for the Lisbon Convention ? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention ? Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

Certainly this is not the place for a debate on the notion of ethnicity and of its different indicators. We are aware that there are different opinions on this sensitive issue but we think it would be relatively easy to accept that the Goan communities in the diaspora are groups that often share a national identity, but preserve specific cultural traditions, norms and references, that are distinct from those of the reception country.

We are deeply convinced that such cultural identity has to be cherished in order to reinforce the sense of individuality of our children understood in John Blacking?s definition as a "consequence of sharing with others, in a variety of social and emotional situations, experiences derived from capabilities that are common to the species, such as the abilities to feel joy, sadness and excitement, to categorize, to abstract and transform, to speak a language and to learn and transmit skills".

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.

Networking capacity is one of the reasons we are here today. It is so much easier to be in contact and to exchange opinions, ideas, facts and mutual concerns about Goa and ourselves. At Casa de Goa we continue to be ready to be part of networking in the diaspora and to put our skills at the service of the global Goan community. We hope to strengthen our ties with other Associations during this week and we look forward to working together with all of you in the future.

Casa de Goa is the house of all Goans and their friends in Lisbon and therefore we wish to offer all of you a standing invitation to visit us".

For those of you who are interested in reading some more about the objectives, the participants and the programme of the Lisbon Convention, you are welcome to go to www.casadegoa.org and look up the information on the Convention of the Goan Diaspora.

In order to set the record straight, I need to go back to last year.

I was sitting by the computer regretting that we had not been able to convince anyone from Canada or from Australia to come to Lisbon. Knowing what huge Goan communities live in both countries, it was a setback. We were very glad of the final confirmation that a number of young participants from Goa (Wendell Rodricks, Jason Keith Fernandes, Clinton Vaz, Ethel da Costa and Chandan Bandekar) would be attending and that all of them were prepared either to make presentations (the first three) or to organise a painting exhibition with the contributions of young contemporary Goan painters (the last two). It was just then that I received an e-mail from Kevin and wrote back immediately that he and Lisette were most welcome to join us which they did.

Like other participants, they paid an enrolment fee and took care of their expenses.

It was part of the objectives of the Lisbon Convention to carry the process further and not to loose the momentum and the very strong ties that had been forged among representatives of so many communities in the diaspora. We had not taken any decision on whether it should be an individual or an association; it did not seem important at the time because any association would be represented by one or more individuals anyway and it would be up to them to garner the support of the other associations in their country.
In our understanding (as I wrote to Eugene on the 1st of August in reply to a direct query from him) Kevin and Lisette were given the opportunity to host the 2008 Convention simply because they offered to do so. In fact, as referred to in the memorandum of understanding before the conclusions in Lisbon "Kevin and Lisette Saldanha, on behalf of the Goanetters Association of Toronto, have expressed their intention of coordinating the various organisations that will participate in the next Convention of the Goan Diaspora, in Canada, in 2008, the significance being the 20th anniversary of the international convention held in that country, in 1988".

Therefore, Casa de Goa was very glad to have the torch carried by Kevin, Lisette, the GNAT and whoever else would be part of the effort and support the Convention in any capacity.
Let me come back to the present and to the reasons for the success of the Toronto Convention. I will not go into a detailed description not only because I arrived at the end of the 1st day but because others have already done so much better than I could have done.

Because of the late arrival I did not attend the workshops. I did sit for a while in Victor?s creative writing workshop where everyone was most interested in defining what the horse said to the bear when they both met in the forest (and from the very creative lines of dialogue that came from participants, I can assure you there was a lot of imagination, humour, and literary talent in that room, and environmental concerns too! I also did hear of how much fun and "inside" designer?s information there was for participants in Wendell?s workshop, and of his charm as well!

Virginia Bras Gomes

(to be followed)
_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-11 22:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by maria gomes
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I
Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.
And I am really glad I made it!
The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like Casa de Goa, were
given the honour of hosting the Convention.

I have asked this question here to no avail, could you tell me how the
Convention was allocated to Canada, what was the basis of
acceptability; similarly what was the basis of the, so called
allocation to London?

All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions asked. Could I
turn up at the next convention and declare that I am taking the
convention to Timbuctoo?
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2008-08-12 01:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Dear Gabe,
???? Let me repeat my incomplete message, and add to it:
?
Dear Gabe,
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
???? Very best regards,
???? Victor
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 09:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Victor
I took absolutely no "umbrage" at Rene informing me
in Toronto that the next Goan Convention would be held
in London. I was most surprised at this totally
unexpected news when informed personally by Rene and
expressed my reservations about the wisdom of doing so
in such a short period of time. I am used to a lead
time of about two years to set up a sound base when
organising an international convention/conference in a
very large city like London. I happen to have
organised very successful one-week residential ones in
a professional capacity and was therefore awed by
Kevin's ability to have generated a very successful
Convention in Toronto in such a short period of time.
Again, I thank him and his committee sincerely for
this major achievement and for something I definitely
enjoyed for the intellectual stimulus it provided, for
the very appropriate social programme and the
networking provision.

As to who organises such a Convention is really not my
business at all assuming a modicum of support for it
is generated to make it a success.
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who
may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not
question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in
Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed
to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of
holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was
running high, and many people thought it was an
excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to
hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at
it, and perhaps some others will.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gabe
Good questions from you that are now at least
partially addressed by Victor.

I can assure you that were you to organise such a
Convention to a really exotic place like Timbuctoo,
many people, including me, could not resist the urge
to attend. So, is this Timbuctoo Convention a firm
offer from you then Gabe? I'd need to start saving up
for it immediately. On TV recently, the mystery of
Timbuctoo was presented brilliantly and I would have
no hesitation in assisting you to organise a
Convention there! I am right behind you on this one
Gabe!
Regards
Cornel
Post by Gabe Menezes
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like
Casa de Goa, were given the honour of hosting the
Convention.
Post by Gabe Menezes
I have asked this question here to no avail, could
you tell me how the Convention was allocated to
Canada, what was the basis of acceptability; similarly
what was the basis of the, so called
Post by Gabe Menezes
allocation to London?
All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions
asked. Could I turn up at the next convention and
declare that I am taking the convention to Timbuctoo?
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-08-13 04:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Maria,
?
With the traditional Goan politeness,?I ask you to?please enlighten us on the "individual and collective achievements" of Goans that were recognized in Lisbon and Toronto?? This phrase was repeated several times in?your article.
?
If the Casa de Goa was celebrating Goan achievements, the achievers from various parts of the Goan world should have been invited, given awards and would have been there to receive them.? From what I can see the same set of (3-5) "achievers" who were trumpeted in?Lisbon were recognized in Toronto.? Is that all that native?and Diaspora Goans have as achievers??
?
Perhaps the first step is for?Goan leaders to know the Goan achievers. Not just the ones whose friends and relatives one knows.? Hopefully we have moved from?'amchem tempar'..? More Goans today have been recognized by the world around them than by Goans.
?
This by no means is to underplay the efforts and the success of the two conventions. But pray, please lets 'walk the talk', at least in the 21st century.
?
Your second paragraph?totally contradicts subsequent?ones. (see below)?Goans are no longer stupid.? That is what the Toronto Goans displayed in unison and likely the majority of Portugal's Goans.? Goan conventions to be truly successful have to be joined by the plebeians / proletariat. The colonial attitude of participation by the fidalgos,?patricians?and the 'gireskai' are long over.? Participation by the en-mass?can be done. Check out Toronto's?Viva Goa!
?
With all due respects if Casa de Goa, Lisbon,?had an analysis of the needs of average Goans? in Portugal and ways to make the convention have a broad appeal, the Toronto convention could have followed on it; and?have had more success. Clearly a lot of effort at both conventions (and other Goan conventions) was put into the pizzaz, with little?attention for programs for?practical use of the community.? Perhaps our conventions?need a program sub-committee (among others) apart from the main organizing committee.?
?
As an example,?at the Toronto convention, were other artists invited to showcase their creative works? What would it have taken to do so???So in addition to displaying our?best artist, amateurs Goans can also be given exposure and recognition.?I know of Goans who are adept at painting, pencil drawings and stained glass creativity.? Some of them sell their art work at museum shops in the USA. Right now, recognition at Goan conventions appears to be given based on "whom you know."? When will we shed our parochial mind set??
?
Having said the above, the convention organizers should hold their heads high and consider this as a major contribution to the Goan community, and?an experience they will treasure.? We in turn should thank them for their contributions and service. This, as the baton is passed seamlessly to the next batch / generation of organizers, while the past organizers?serve as "Chairperson of the Board". Part of a good committee is to train the next group to step-up to the plate.? That is where working on sub-committee are good training grounds. Let me call on the organizers to share their own experience (positive and negative) so that future organizers of Goan conventions can learn. Thus we do not repeat the same issues and face the same?dilemmas, as was experienced in Toronto and perhaps Lisbon.? We need a Goan organization and a convention that serves the community and not the reverse.
?
Regards, GL?
?
------------- ?maria gomes <sontos at hotmail.com>
?
When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so.
?
If the theme for the Lisbon Convention? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention?Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.
maria gomes
2008-08-11 19:29:19 UTC
Permalink
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I

Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.

And I am really glad I made it!

The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.

"It is my great pleasure to bring you warmest greetings from Casa de Goa in Lisbon, in particular from the President, Prof. Narana Coissoro, who deeply regrets not being here, as well as from the other members of the Managing Board and all the associates. In spirit they are here sharing the sense of togetherness and of a common commitment to Goa and to the reception countries where goan communities have carved a place and a role for themselves.

When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so. Their promise was our guarantee ? the rest, organisational details, programme, etc. would come later. And it did!

I was just looking at some photos of the Lisbon Convention recently and I realised that 2 of those photos pointed to the future ? the group of very young violinists who during the closing ceremony, filled a few eyes with tears when they interpreted a verse of our very beautiful mand? Sontos bhogt? r? jivak? and another photo of all our participants from aboard with the Saldanhas in the first row, a few moments before the conclusions were read and the responsibility had been passed on.

If the theme for the Lisbon Convention ? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention ? Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

Certainly this is not the place for a debate on the notion of ethnicity and of its different indicators. We are aware that there are different opinions on this sensitive issue but we think it would be relatively easy to accept that the Goan communities in the diaspora are groups that often share a national identity, but preserve specific cultural traditions, norms and references, that are distinct from those of the reception country.

We are deeply convinced that such cultural identity has to be cherished in order to reinforce the sense of individuality of our children understood in John Blacking?s definition as a "consequence of sharing with others, in a variety of social and emotional situations, experiences derived from capabilities that are common to the species, such as the abilities to feel joy, sadness and excitement, to categorize, to abstract and transform, to speak a language and to learn and transmit skills".

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.

Networking capacity is one of the reasons we are here today. It is so much easier to be in contact and to exchange opinions, ideas, facts and mutual concerns about Goa and ourselves. At Casa de Goa we continue to be ready to be part of networking in the diaspora and to put our skills at the service of the global Goan community. We hope to strengthen our ties with other Associations during this week and we look forward to working together with all of you in the future.

Casa de Goa is the house of all Goans and their friends in Lisbon and therefore we wish to offer all of you a standing invitation to visit us".

For those of you who are interested in reading some more about the objectives, the participants and the programme of the Lisbon Convention, you are welcome to go to www.casadegoa.org and look up the information on the Convention of the Goan Diaspora.

In order to set the record straight, I need to go back to last year.

I was sitting by the computer regretting that we had not been able to convince anyone from Canada or from Australia to come to Lisbon. Knowing what huge Goan communities live in both countries, it was a setback. We were very glad of the final confirmation that a number of young participants from Goa (Wendell Rodricks, Jason Keith Fernandes, Clinton Vaz, Ethel da Costa and Chandan Bandekar) would be attending and that all of them were prepared either to make presentations (the first three) or to organise a painting exhibition with the contributions of young contemporary Goan painters (the last two). It was just then that I received an e-mail from Kevin and wrote back immediately that he and Lisette were most welcome to join us which they did.

Like other participants, they paid an enrolment fee and took care of their expenses.

It was part of the objectives of the Lisbon Convention to carry the process further and not to loose the momentum and the very strong ties that had been forged among representatives of so many communities in the diaspora. We had not taken any decision on whether it should be an individual or an association; it did not seem important at the time because any association would be represented by one or more individuals anyway and it would be up to them to garner the support of the other associations in their country.
In our understanding (as I wrote to Eugene on the 1st of August in reply to a direct query from him) Kevin and Lisette were given the opportunity to host the 2008 Convention simply because they offered to do so. In fact, as referred to in the memorandum of understanding before the conclusions in Lisbon "Kevin and Lisette Saldanha, on behalf of the Goanetters Association of Toronto, have expressed their intention of coordinating the various organisations that will participate in the next Convention of the Goan Diaspora, in Canada, in 2008, the significance being the 20th anniversary of the international convention held in that country, in 1988".

Therefore, Casa de Goa was very glad to have the torch carried by Kevin, Lisette, the GNAT and whoever else would be part of the effort and support the Convention in any capacity.
Let me come back to the present and to the reasons for the success of the Toronto Convention. I will not go into a detailed description not only because I arrived at the end of the 1st day but because others have already done so much better than I could have done.

Because of the late arrival I did not attend the workshops. I did sit for a while in Victor?s creative writing workshop where everyone was most interested in defining what the horse said to the bear when they both met in the forest (and from the very creative lines of dialogue that came from participants, I can assure you there was a lot of imagination, humour, and literary talent in that room, and environmental concerns too! I also did hear of how much fun and "inside" designer?s information there was for participants in Wendell?s workshop, and of his charm as well!

Virginia Bras Gomes

(to be followed)
_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-11 22:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by maria gomes
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I
Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.
And I am really glad I made it!
The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like Casa de Goa, were
given the honour of hosting the Convention.

I have asked this question here to no avail, could you tell me how the
Convention was allocated to Canada, what was the basis of
acceptability; similarly what was the basis of the, so called
allocation to London?

All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions asked. Could I
turn up at the next convention and declare that I am taking the
convention to Timbuctoo?
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2008-08-12 01:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Dear Gabe,
???? Let me repeat my incomplete message, and add to it:
?
Dear Gabe,
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
???? Very best regards,
???? Victor
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 09:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Victor
I took absolutely no "umbrage" at Rene informing me
in Toronto that the next Goan Convention would be held
in London. I was most surprised at this totally
unexpected news when informed personally by Rene and
expressed my reservations about the wisdom of doing so
in such a short period of time. I am used to a lead
time of about two years to set up a sound base when
organising an international convention/conference in a
very large city like London. I happen to have
organised very successful one-week residential ones in
a professional capacity and was therefore awed by
Kevin's ability to have generated a very successful
Convention in Toronto in such a short period of time.
Again, I thank him and his committee sincerely for
this major achievement and for something I definitely
enjoyed for the intellectual stimulus it provided, for
the very appropriate social programme and the
networking provision.

As to who organises such a Convention is really not my
business at all assuming a modicum of support for it
is generated to make it a success.
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who
may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not
question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in
Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed
to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of
holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was
running high, and many people thought it was an
excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to
hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at
it, and perhaps some others will.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gabe
Good questions from you that are now at least
partially addressed by Victor.

I can assure you that were you to organise such a
Convention to a really exotic place like Timbuctoo,
many people, including me, could not resist the urge
to attend. So, is this Timbuctoo Convention a firm
offer from you then Gabe? I'd need to start saving up
for it immediately. On TV recently, the mystery of
Timbuctoo was presented brilliantly and I would have
no hesitation in assisting you to organise a
Convention there! I am right behind you on this one
Gabe!
Regards
Cornel
Post by Gabe Menezes
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like
Casa de Goa, were given the honour of hosting the
Convention.
Post by Gabe Menezes
I have asked this question here to no avail, could
you tell me how the Convention was allocated to
Canada, what was the basis of acceptability; similarly
what was the basis of the, so called
Post by Gabe Menezes
allocation to London?
All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions
asked. Could I turn up at the next convention and
declare that I am taking the convention to Timbuctoo?
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-08-13 04:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Maria,
?
With the traditional Goan politeness,?I ask you to?please enlighten us on the "individual and collective achievements" of Goans that were recognized in Lisbon and Toronto?? This phrase was repeated several times in?your article.
?
If the Casa de Goa was celebrating Goan achievements, the achievers from various parts of the Goan world should have been invited, given awards and would have been there to receive them.? From what I can see the same set of (3-5) "achievers" who were trumpeted in?Lisbon were recognized in Toronto.? Is that all that native?and Diaspora Goans have as achievers??
?
Perhaps the first step is for?Goan leaders to know the Goan achievers. Not just the ones whose friends and relatives one knows.? Hopefully we have moved from?'amchem tempar'..? More Goans today have been recognized by the world around them than by Goans.
?
This by no means is to underplay the efforts and the success of the two conventions. But pray, please lets 'walk the talk', at least in the 21st century.
?
Your second paragraph?totally contradicts subsequent?ones. (see below)?Goans are no longer stupid.? That is what the Toronto Goans displayed in unison and likely the majority of Portugal's Goans.? Goan conventions to be truly successful have to be joined by the plebeians / proletariat. The colonial attitude of participation by the fidalgos,?patricians?and the 'gireskai' are long over.? Participation by the en-mass?can be done. Check out Toronto's?Viva Goa!
?
With all due respects if Casa de Goa, Lisbon,?had an analysis of the needs of average Goans? in Portugal and ways to make the convention have a broad appeal, the Toronto convention could have followed on it; and?have had more success. Clearly a lot of effort at both conventions (and other Goan conventions) was put into the pizzaz, with little?attention for programs for?practical use of the community.? Perhaps our conventions?need a program sub-committee (among others) apart from the main organizing committee.?
?
As an example,?at the Toronto convention, were other artists invited to showcase their creative works? What would it have taken to do so???So in addition to displaying our?best artist, amateurs Goans can also be given exposure and recognition.?I know of Goans who are adept at painting, pencil drawings and stained glass creativity.? Some of them sell their art work at museum shops in the USA. Right now, recognition at Goan conventions appears to be given based on "whom you know."? When will we shed our parochial mind set??
?
Having said the above, the convention organizers should hold their heads high and consider this as a major contribution to the Goan community, and?an experience they will treasure.? We in turn should thank them for their contributions and service. This, as the baton is passed seamlessly to the next batch / generation of organizers, while the past organizers?serve as "Chairperson of the Board". Part of a good committee is to train the next group to step-up to the plate.? That is where working on sub-committee are good training grounds. Let me call on the organizers to share their own experience (positive and negative) so that future organizers of Goan conventions can learn. Thus we do not repeat the same issues and face the same?dilemmas, as was experienced in Toronto and perhaps Lisbon.? We need a Goan organization and a convention that serves the community and not the reverse.
?
Regards, GL?
?
------------- ?maria gomes <sontos at hotmail.com>
?
When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so.
?
If the theme for the Lisbon Convention? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention?Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.
maria gomes
2008-08-11 19:29:19 UTC
Permalink
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I

Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.

And I am really glad I made it!

The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.

"It is my great pleasure to bring you warmest greetings from Casa de Goa in Lisbon, in particular from the President, Prof. Narana Coissoro, who deeply regrets not being here, as well as from the other members of the Managing Board and all the associates. In spirit they are here sharing the sense of togetherness and of a common commitment to Goa and to the reception countries where goan communities have carved a place and a role for themselves.

When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so. Their promise was our guarantee ? the rest, organisational details, programme, etc. would come later. And it did!

I was just looking at some photos of the Lisbon Convention recently and I realised that 2 of those photos pointed to the future ? the group of very young violinists who during the closing ceremony, filled a few eyes with tears when they interpreted a verse of our very beautiful mand? Sontos bhogt? r? jivak? and another photo of all our participants from aboard with the Saldanhas in the first row, a few moments before the conclusions were read and the responsibility had been passed on.

If the theme for the Lisbon Convention ? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention ? Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

Certainly this is not the place for a debate on the notion of ethnicity and of its different indicators. We are aware that there are different opinions on this sensitive issue but we think it would be relatively easy to accept that the Goan communities in the diaspora are groups that often share a national identity, but preserve specific cultural traditions, norms and references, that are distinct from those of the reception country.

We are deeply convinced that such cultural identity has to be cherished in order to reinforce the sense of individuality of our children understood in John Blacking?s definition as a "consequence of sharing with others, in a variety of social and emotional situations, experiences derived from capabilities that are common to the species, such as the abilities to feel joy, sadness and excitement, to categorize, to abstract and transform, to speak a language and to learn and transmit skills".

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.

Networking capacity is one of the reasons we are here today. It is so much easier to be in contact and to exchange opinions, ideas, facts and mutual concerns about Goa and ourselves. At Casa de Goa we continue to be ready to be part of networking in the diaspora and to put our skills at the service of the global Goan community. We hope to strengthen our ties with other Associations during this week and we look forward to working together with all of you in the future.

Casa de Goa is the house of all Goans and their friends in Lisbon and therefore we wish to offer all of you a standing invitation to visit us".

For those of you who are interested in reading some more about the objectives, the participants and the programme of the Lisbon Convention, you are welcome to go to www.casadegoa.org and look up the information on the Convention of the Goan Diaspora.

In order to set the record straight, I need to go back to last year.

I was sitting by the computer regretting that we had not been able to convince anyone from Canada or from Australia to come to Lisbon. Knowing what huge Goan communities live in both countries, it was a setback. We were very glad of the final confirmation that a number of young participants from Goa (Wendell Rodricks, Jason Keith Fernandes, Clinton Vaz, Ethel da Costa and Chandan Bandekar) would be attending and that all of them were prepared either to make presentations (the first three) or to organise a painting exhibition with the contributions of young contemporary Goan painters (the last two). It was just then that I received an e-mail from Kevin and wrote back immediately that he and Lisette were most welcome to join us which they did.

Like other participants, they paid an enrolment fee and took care of their expenses.

It was part of the objectives of the Lisbon Convention to carry the process further and not to loose the momentum and the very strong ties that had been forged among representatives of so many communities in the diaspora. We had not taken any decision on whether it should be an individual or an association; it did not seem important at the time because any association would be represented by one or more individuals anyway and it would be up to them to garner the support of the other associations in their country.
In our understanding (as I wrote to Eugene on the 1st of August in reply to a direct query from him) Kevin and Lisette were given the opportunity to host the 2008 Convention simply because they offered to do so. In fact, as referred to in the memorandum of understanding before the conclusions in Lisbon "Kevin and Lisette Saldanha, on behalf of the Goanetters Association of Toronto, have expressed their intention of coordinating the various organisations that will participate in the next Convention of the Goan Diaspora, in Canada, in 2008, the significance being the 20th anniversary of the international convention held in that country, in 1988".

Therefore, Casa de Goa was very glad to have the torch carried by Kevin, Lisette, the GNAT and whoever else would be part of the effort and support the Convention in any capacity.
Let me come back to the present and to the reasons for the success of the Toronto Convention. I will not go into a detailed description not only because I arrived at the end of the 1st day but because others have already done so much better than I could have done.

Because of the late arrival I did not attend the workshops. I did sit for a while in Victor?s creative writing workshop where everyone was most interested in defining what the horse said to the bear when they both met in the forest (and from the very creative lines of dialogue that came from participants, I can assure you there was a lot of imagination, humour, and literary talent in that room, and environmental concerns too! I also did hear of how much fun and "inside" designer?s information there was for participants in Wendell?s workshop, and of his charm as well!

Virginia Bras Gomes

(to be followed)
_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-11 22:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by maria gomes
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I
Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.
And I am really glad I made it!
The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like Casa de Goa, were
given the honour of hosting the Convention.

I have asked this question here to no avail, could you tell me how the
Convention was allocated to Canada, what was the basis of
acceptability; similarly what was the basis of the, so called
allocation to London?

All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions asked. Could I
turn up at the next convention and declare that I am taking the
convention to Timbuctoo?
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2008-08-12 01:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Dear Gabe,
???? Let me repeat my incomplete message, and add to it:
?
Dear Gabe,
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
???? Very best regards,
???? Victor
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 09:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Victor
I took absolutely no "umbrage" at Rene informing me
in Toronto that the next Goan Convention would be held
in London. I was most surprised at this totally
unexpected news when informed personally by Rene and
expressed my reservations about the wisdom of doing so
in such a short period of time. I am used to a lead
time of about two years to set up a sound base when
organising an international convention/conference in a
very large city like London. I happen to have
organised very successful one-week residential ones in
a professional capacity and was therefore awed by
Kevin's ability to have generated a very successful
Convention in Toronto in such a short period of time.
Again, I thank him and his committee sincerely for
this major achievement and for something I definitely
enjoyed for the intellectual stimulus it provided, for
the very appropriate social programme and the
networking provision.

As to who organises such a Convention is really not my
business at all assuming a modicum of support for it
is generated to make it a success.
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who
may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not
question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in
Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed
to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of
holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was
running high, and many people thought it was an
excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to
hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at
it, and perhaps some others will.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gabe
Good questions from you that are now at least
partially addressed by Victor.

I can assure you that were you to organise such a
Convention to a really exotic place like Timbuctoo,
many people, including me, could not resist the urge
to attend. So, is this Timbuctoo Convention a firm
offer from you then Gabe? I'd need to start saving up
for it immediately. On TV recently, the mystery of
Timbuctoo was presented brilliantly and I would have
no hesitation in assisting you to organise a
Convention there! I am right behind you on this one
Gabe!
Regards
Cornel
Post by Gabe Menezes
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like
Casa de Goa, were given the honour of hosting the
Convention.
Post by Gabe Menezes
I have asked this question here to no avail, could
you tell me how the Convention was allocated to
Canada, what was the basis of acceptability; similarly
what was the basis of the, so called
Post by Gabe Menezes
allocation to London?
All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions
asked. Could I turn up at the next convention and
declare that I am taking the convention to Timbuctoo?
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-08-13 04:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Maria,
?
With the traditional Goan politeness,?I ask you to?please enlighten us on the "individual and collective achievements" of Goans that were recognized in Lisbon and Toronto?? This phrase was repeated several times in?your article.
?
If the Casa de Goa was celebrating Goan achievements, the achievers from various parts of the Goan world should have been invited, given awards and would have been there to receive them.? From what I can see the same set of (3-5) "achievers" who were trumpeted in?Lisbon were recognized in Toronto.? Is that all that native?and Diaspora Goans have as achievers??
?
Perhaps the first step is for?Goan leaders to know the Goan achievers. Not just the ones whose friends and relatives one knows.? Hopefully we have moved from?'amchem tempar'..? More Goans today have been recognized by the world around them than by Goans.
?
This by no means is to underplay the efforts and the success of the two conventions. But pray, please lets 'walk the talk', at least in the 21st century.
?
Your second paragraph?totally contradicts subsequent?ones. (see below)?Goans are no longer stupid.? That is what the Toronto Goans displayed in unison and likely the majority of Portugal's Goans.? Goan conventions to be truly successful have to be joined by the plebeians / proletariat. The colonial attitude of participation by the fidalgos,?patricians?and the 'gireskai' are long over.? Participation by the en-mass?can be done. Check out Toronto's?Viva Goa!
?
With all due respects if Casa de Goa, Lisbon,?had an analysis of the needs of average Goans? in Portugal and ways to make the convention have a broad appeal, the Toronto convention could have followed on it; and?have had more success. Clearly a lot of effort at both conventions (and other Goan conventions) was put into the pizzaz, with little?attention for programs for?practical use of the community.? Perhaps our conventions?need a program sub-committee (among others) apart from the main organizing committee.?
?
As an example,?at the Toronto convention, were other artists invited to showcase their creative works? What would it have taken to do so???So in addition to displaying our?best artist, amateurs Goans can also be given exposure and recognition.?I know of Goans who are adept at painting, pencil drawings and stained glass creativity.? Some of them sell their art work at museum shops in the USA. Right now, recognition at Goan conventions appears to be given based on "whom you know."? When will we shed our parochial mind set??
?
Having said the above, the convention organizers should hold their heads high and consider this as a major contribution to the Goan community, and?an experience they will treasure.? We in turn should thank them for their contributions and service. This, as the baton is passed seamlessly to the next batch / generation of organizers, while the past organizers?serve as "Chairperson of the Board". Part of a good committee is to train the next group to step-up to the plate.? That is where working on sub-committee are good training grounds. Let me call on the organizers to share their own experience (positive and negative) so that future organizers of Goan conventions can learn. Thus we do not repeat the same issues and face the same?dilemmas, as was experienced in Toronto and perhaps Lisbon.? We need a Goan organization and a convention that serves the community and not the reverse.
?
Regards, GL?
?
------------- ?maria gomes <sontos at hotmail.com>
?
When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so.
?
If the theme for the Lisbon Convention? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention?Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.
maria gomes
2008-08-11 19:29:19 UTC
Permalink
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I

Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.

And I am really glad I made it!

The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.

"It is my great pleasure to bring you warmest greetings from Casa de Goa in Lisbon, in particular from the President, Prof. Narana Coissoro, who deeply regrets not being here, as well as from the other members of the Managing Board and all the associates. In spirit they are here sharing the sense of togetherness and of a common commitment to Goa and to the reception countries where goan communities have carved a place and a role for themselves.

When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so. Their promise was our guarantee ? the rest, organisational details, programme, etc. would come later. And it did!

I was just looking at some photos of the Lisbon Convention recently and I realised that 2 of those photos pointed to the future ? the group of very young violinists who during the closing ceremony, filled a few eyes with tears when they interpreted a verse of our very beautiful mand? Sontos bhogt? r? jivak? and another photo of all our participants from aboard with the Saldanhas in the first row, a few moments before the conclusions were read and the responsibility had been passed on.

If the theme for the Lisbon Convention ? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention ? Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

Certainly this is not the place for a debate on the notion of ethnicity and of its different indicators. We are aware that there are different opinions on this sensitive issue but we think it would be relatively easy to accept that the Goan communities in the diaspora are groups that often share a national identity, but preserve specific cultural traditions, norms and references, that are distinct from those of the reception country.

We are deeply convinced that such cultural identity has to be cherished in order to reinforce the sense of individuality of our children understood in John Blacking?s definition as a "consequence of sharing with others, in a variety of social and emotional situations, experiences derived from capabilities that are common to the species, such as the abilities to feel joy, sadness and excitement, to categorize, to abstract and transform, to speak a language and to learn and transmit skills".

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.

Networking capacity is one of the reasons we are here today. It is so much easier to be in contact and to exchange opinions, ideas, facts and mutual concerns about Goa and ourselves. At Casa de Goa we continue to be ready to be part of networking in the diaspora and to put our skills at the service of the global Goan community. We hope to strengthen our ties with other Associations during this week and we look forward to working together with all of you in the future.

Casa de Goa is the house of all Goans and their friends in Lisbon and therefore we wish to offer all of you a standing invitation to visit us".

For those of you who are interested in reading some more about the objectives, the participants and the programme of the Lisbon Convention, you are welcome to go to www.casadegoa.org and look up the information on the Convention of the Goan Diaspora.

In order to set the record straight, I need to go back to last year.

I was sitting by the computer regretting that we had not been able to convince anyone from Canada or from Australia to come to Lisbon. Knowing what huge Goan communities live in both countries, it was a setback. We were very glad of the final confirmation that a number of young participants from Goa (Wendell Rodricks, Jason Keith Fernandes, Clinton Vaz, Ethel da Costa and Chandan Bandekar) would be attending and that all of them were prepared either to make presentations (the first three) or to organise a painting exhibition with the contributions of young contemporary Goan painters (the last two). It was just then that I received an e-mail from Kevin and wrote back immediately that he and Lisette were most welcome to join us which they did.

Like other participants, they paid an enrolment fee and took care of their expenses.

It was part of the objectives of the Lisbon Convention to carry the process further and not to loose the momentum and the very strong ties that had been forged among representatives of so many communities in the diaspora. We had not taken any decision on whether it should be an individual or an association; it did not seem important at the time because any association would be represented by one or more individuals anyway and it would be up to them to garner the support of the other associations in their country.
In our understanding (as I wrote to Eugene on the 1st of August in reply to a direct query from him) Kevin and Lisette were given the opportunity to host the 2008 Convention simply because they offered to do so. In fact, as referred to in the memorandum of understanding before the conclusions in Lisbon "Kevin and Lisette Saldanha, on behalf of the Goanetters Association of Toronto, have expressed their intention of coordinating the various organisations that will participate in the next Convention of the Goan Diaspora, in Canada, in 2008, the significance being the 20th anniversary of the international convention held in that country, in 1988".

Therefore, Casa de Goa was very glad to have the torch carried by Kevin, Lisette, the GNAT and whoever else would be part of the effort and support the Convention in any capacity.
Let me come back to the present and to the reasons for the success of the Toronto Convention. I will not go into a detailed description not only because I arrived at the end of the 1st day but because others have already done so much better than I could have done.

Because of the late arrival I did not attend the workshops. I did sit for a while in Victor?s creative writing workshop where everyone was most interested in defining what the horse said to the bear when they both met in the forest (and from the very creative lines of dialogue that came from participants, I can assure you there was a lot of imagination, humour, and literary talent in that room, and environmental concerns too! I also did hear of how much fun and "inside" designer?s information there was for participants in Wendell?s workshop, and of his charm as well!

Virginia Bras Gomes

(to be followed)
_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-11 22:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by maria gomes
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I
Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.
And I am really glad I made it!
The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like Casa de Goa, were
given the honour of hosting the Convention.

I have asked this question here to no avail, could you tell me how the
Convention was allocated to Canada, what was the basis of
acceptability; similarly what was the basis of the, so called
allocation to London?

All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions asked. Could I
turn up at the next convention and declare that I am taking the
convention to Timbuctoo?
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2008-08-12 01:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Dear Gabe,
???? Let me repeat my incomplete message, and add to it:
?
Dear Gabe,
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
???? Very best regards,
???? Victor
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 09:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Victor
I took absolutely no "umbrage" at Rene informing me
in Toronto that the next Goan Convention would be held
in London. I was most surprised at this totally
unexpected news when informed personally by Rene and
expressed my reservations about the wisdom of doing so
in such a short period of time. I am used to a lead
time of about two years to set up a sound base when
organising an international convention/conference in a
very large city like London. I happen to have
organised very successful one-week residential ones in
a professional capacity and was therefore awed by
Kevin's ability to have generated a very successful
Convention in Toronto in such a short period of time.
Again, I thank him and his committee sincerely for
this major achievement and for something I definitely
enjoyed for the intellectual stimulus it provided, for
the very appropriate social programme and the
networking provision.

As to who organises such a Convention is really not my
business at all assuming a modicum of support for it
is generated to make it a success.
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who
may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not
question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in
Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed
to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of
holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was
running high, and many people thought it was an
excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to
hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at
it, and perhaps some others will.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gabe
Good questions from you that are now at least
partially addressed by Victor.

I can assure you that were you to organise such a
Convention to a really exotic place like Timbuctoo,
many people, including me, could not resist the urge
to attend. So, is this Timbuctoo Convention a firm
offer from you then Gabe? I'd need to start saving up
for it immediately. On TV recently, the mystery of
Timbuctoo was presented brilliantly and I would have
no hesitation in assisting you to organise a
Convention there! I am right behind you on this one
Gabe!
Regards
Cornel
Post by Gabe Menezes
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like
Casa de Goa, were given the honour of hosting the
Convention.
Post by Gabe Menezes
I have asked this question here to no avail, could
you tell me how the Convention was allocated to
Canada, what was the basis of acceptability; similarly
what was the basis of the, so called
Post by Gabe Menezes
allocation to London?
All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions
asked. Could I turn up at the next convention and
declare that I am taking the convention to Timbuctoo?
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-08-13 04:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Maria,
?
With the traditional Goan politeness,?I ask you to?please enlighten us on the "individual and collective achievements" of Goans that were recognized in Lisbon and Toronto?? This phrase was repeated several times in?your article.
?
If the Casa de Goa was celebrating Goan achievements, the achievers from various parts of the Goan world should have been invited, given awards and would have been there to receive them.? From what I can see the same set of (3-5) "achievers" who were trumpeted in?Lisbon were recognized in Toronto.? Is that all that native?and Diaspora Goans have as achievers??
?
Perhaps the first step is for?Goan leaders to know the Goan achievers. Not just the ones whose friends and relatives one knows.? Hopefully we have moved from?'amchem tempar'..? More Goans today have been recognized by the world around them than by Goans.
?
This by no means is to underplay the efforts and the success of the two conventions. But pray, please lets 'walk the talk', at least in the 21st century.
?
Your second paragraph?totally contradicts subsequent?ones. (see below)?Goans are no longer stupid.? That is what the Toronto Goans displayed in unison and likely the majority of Portugal's Goans.? Goan conventions to be truly successful have to be joined by the plebeians / proletariat. The colonial attitude of participation by the fidalgos,?patricians?and the 'gireskai' are long over.? Participation by the en-mass?can be done. Check out Toronto's?Viva Goa!
?
With all due respects if Casa de Goa, Lisbon,?had an analysis of the needs of average Goans? in Portugal and ways to make the convention have a broad appeal, the Toronto convention could have followed on it; and?have had more success. Clearly a lot of effort at both conventions (and other Goan conventions) was put into the pizzaz, with little?attention for programs for?practical use of the community.? Perhaps our conventions?need a program sub-committee (among others) apart from the main organizing committee.?
?
As an example,?at the Toronto convention, were other artists invited to showcase their creative works? What would it have taken to do so???So in addition to displaying our?best artist, amateurs Goans can also be given exposure and recognition.?I know of Goans who are adept at painting, pencil drawings and stained glass creativity.? Some of them sell their art work at museum shops in the USA. Right now, recognition at Goan conventions appears to be given based on "whom you know."? When will we shed our parochial mind set??
?
Having said the above, the convention organizers should hold their heads high and consider this as a major contribution to the Goan community, and?an experience they will treasure.? We in turn should thank them for their contributions and service. This, as the baton is passed seamlessly to the next batch / generation of organizers, while the past organizers?serve as "Chairperson of the Board". Part of a good committee is to train the next group to step-up to the plate.? That is where working on sub-committee are good training grounds. Let me call on the organizers to share their own experience (positive and negative) so that future organizers of Goan conventions can learn. Thus we do not repeat the same issues and face the same?dilemmas, as was experienced in Toronto and perhaps Lisbon.? We need a Goan organization and a convention that serves the community and not the reverse.
?
Regards, GL?
?
------------- ?maria gomes <sontos at hotmail.com>
?
When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so.
?
If the theme for the Lisbon Convention? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention?Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.
maria gomes
2008-08-11 19:29:19 UTC
Permalink
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I

Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.

And I am really glad I made it!

The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.

"It is my great pleasure to bring you warmest greetings from Casa de Goa in Lisbon, in particular from the President, Prof. Narana Coissoro, who deeply regrets not being here, as well as from the other members of the Managing Board and all the associates. In spirit they are here sharing the sense of togetherness and of a common commitment to Goa and to the reception countries where goan communities have carved a place and a role for themselves.

When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so. Their promise was our guarantee ? the rest, organisational details, programme, etc. would come later. And it did!

I was just looking at some photos of the Lisbon Convention recently and I realised that 2 of those photos pointed to the future ? the group of very young violinists who during the closing ceremony, filled a few eyes with tears when they interpreted a verse of our very beautiful mand? Sontos bhogt? r? jivak? and another photo of all our participants from aboard with the Saldanhas in the first row, a few moments before the conclusions were read and the responsibility had been passed on.

If the theme for the Lisbon Convention ? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention ? Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

Certainly this is not the place for a debate on the notion of ethnicity and of its different indicators. We are aware that there are different opinions on this sensitive issue but we think it would be relatively easy to accept that the Goan communities in the diaspora are groups that often share a national identity, but preserve specific cultural traditions, norms and references, that are distinct from those of the reception country.

We are deeply convinced that such cultural identity has to be cherished in order to reinforce the sense of individuality of our children understood in John Blacking?s definition as a "consequence of sharing with others, in a variety of social and emotional situations, experiences derived from capabilities that are common to the species, such as the abilities to feel joy, sadness and excitement, to categorize, to abstract and transform, to speak a language and to learn and transmit skills".

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.

Networking capacity is one of the reasons we are here today. It is so much easier to be in contact and to exchange opinions, ideas, facts and mutual concerns about Goa and ourselves. At Casa de Goa we continue to be ready to be part of networking in the diaspora and to put our skills at the service of the global Goan community. We hope to strengthen our ties with other Associations during this week and we look forward to working together with all of you in the future.

Casa de Goa is the house of all Goans and their friends in Lisbon and therefore we wish to offer all of you a standing invitation to visit us".

For those of you who are interested in reading some more about the objectives, the participants and the programme of the Lisbon Convention, you are welcome to go to www.casadegoa.org and look up the information on the Convention of the Goan Diaspora.

In order to set the record straight, I need to go back to last year.

I was sitting by the computer regretting that we had not been able to convince anyone from Canada or from Australia to come to Lisbon. Knowing what huge Goan communities live in both countries, it was a setback. We were very glad of the final confirmation that a number of young participants from Goa (Wendell Rodricks, Jason Keith Fernandes, Clinton Vaz, Ethel da Costa and Chandan Bandekar) would be attending and that all of them were prepared either to make presentations (the first three) or to organise a painting exhibition with the contributions of young contemporary Goan painters (the last two). It was just then that I received an e-mail from Kevin and wrote back immediately that he and Lisette were most welcome to join us which they did.

Like other participants, they paid an enrolment fee and took care of their expenses.

It was part of the objectives of the Lisbon Convention to carry the process further and not to loose the momentum and the very strong ties that had been forged among representatives of so many communities in the diaspora. We had not taken any decision on whether it should be an individual or an association; it did not seem important at the time because any association would be represented by one or more individuals anyway and it would be up to them to garner the support of the other associations in their country.
In our understanding (as I wrote to Eugene on the 1st of August in reply to a direct query from him) Kevin and Lisette were given the opportunity to host the 2008 Convention simply because they offered to do so. In fact, as referred to in the memorandum of understanding before the conclusions in Lisbon "Kevin and Lisette Saldanha, on behalf of the Goanetters Association of Toronto, have expressed their intention of coordinating the various organisations that will participate in the next Convention of the Goan Diaspora, in Canada, in 2008, the significance being the 20th anniversary of the international convention held in that country, in 1988".

Therefore, Casa de Goa was very glad to have the torch carried by Kevin, Lisette, the GNAT and whoever else would be part of the effort and support the Convention in any capacity.
Let me come back to the present and to the reasons for the success of the Toronto Convention. I will not go into a detailed description not only because I arrived at the end of the 1st day but because others have already done so much better than I could have done.

Because of the late arrival I did not attend the workshops. I did sit for a while in Victor?s creative writing workshop where everyone was most interested in defining what the horse said to the bear when they both met in the forest (and from the very creative lines of dialogue that came from participants, I can assure you there was a lot of imagination, humour, and literary talent in that room, and environmental concerns too! I also did hear of how much fun and "inside" designer?s information there was for participants in Wendell?s workshop, and of his charm as well!

Virginia Bras Gomes

(to be followed)
_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-11 22:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by maria gomes
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I
Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.
And I am really glad I made it!
The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like Casa de Goa, were
given the honour of hosting the Convention.

I have asked this question here to no avail, could you tell me how the
Convention was allocated to Canada, what was the basis of
acceptability; similarly what was the basis of the, so called
allocation to London?

All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions asked. Could I
turn up at the next convention and declare that I am taking the
convention to Timbuctoo?
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2008-08-12 01:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Dear Gabe,
???? Let me repeat my incomplete message, and add to it:
?
Dear Gabe,
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
???? Very best regards,
???? Victor
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 09:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Victor
I took absolutely no "umbrage" at Rene informing me
in Toronto that the next Goan Convention would be held
in London. I was most surprised at this totally
unexpected news when informed personally by Rene and
expressed my reservations about the wisdom of doing so
in such a short period of time. I am used to a lead
time of about two years to set up a sound base when
organising an international convention/conference in a
very large city like London. I happen to have
organised very successful one-week residential ones in
a professional capacity and was therefore awed by
Kevin's ability to have generated a very successful
Convention in Toronto in such a short period of time.
Again, I thank him and his committee sincerely for
this major achievement and for something I definitely
enjoyed for the intellectual stimulus it provided, for
the very appropriate social programme and the
networking provision.

As to who organises such a Convention is really not my
business at all assuming a modicum of support for it
is generated to make it a success.
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who
may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not
question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in
Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed
to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of
holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was
running high, and many people thought it was an
excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to
hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at
it, and perhaps some others will.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gabe
Good questions from you that are now at least
partially addressed by Victor.

I can assure you that were you to organise such a
Convention to a really exotic place like Timbuctoo,
many people, including me, could not resist the urge
to attend. So, is this Timbuctoo Convention a firm
offer from you then Gabe? I'd need to start saving up
for it immediately. On TV recently, the mystery of
Timbuctoo was presented brilliantly and I would have
no hesitation in assisting you to organise a
Convention there! I am right behind you on this one
Gabe!
Regards
Cornel
Post by Gabe Menezes
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like
Casa de Goa, were given the honour of hosting the
Convention.
Post by Gabe Menezes
I have asked this question here to no avail, could
you tell me how the Convention was allocated to
Canada, what was the basis of acceptability; similarly
what was the basis of the, so called
Post by Gabe Menezes
allocation to London?
All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions
asked. Could I turn up at the next convention and
declare that I am taking the convention to Timbuctoo?
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-08-13 04:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Maria,
?
With the traditional Goan politeness,?I ask you to?please enlighten us on the "individual and collective achievements" of Goans that were recognized in Lisbon and Toronto?? This phrase was repeated several times in?your article.
?
If the Casa de Goa was celebrating Goan achievements, the achievers from various parts of the Goan world should have been invited, given awards and would have been there to receive them.? From what I can see the same set of (3-5) "achievers" who were trumpeted in?Lisbon were recognized in Toronto.? Is that all that native?and Diaspora Goans have as achievers??
?
Perhaps the first step is for?Goan leaders to know the Goan achievers. Not just the ones whose friends and relatives one knows.? Hopefully we have moved from?'amchem tempar'..? More Goans today have been recognized by the world around them than by Goans.
?
This by no means is to underplay the efforts and the success of the two conventions. But pray, please lets 'walk the talk', at least in the 21st century.
?
Your second paragraph?totally contradicts subsequent?ones. (see below)?Goans are no longer stupid.? That is what the Toronto Goans displayed in unison and likely the majority of Portugal's Goans.? Goan conventions to be truly successful have to be joined by the plebeians / proletariat. The colonial attitude of participation by the fidalgos,?patricians?and the 'gireskai' are long over.? Participation by the en-mass?can be done. Check out Toronto's?Viva Goa!
?
With all due respects if Casa de Goa, Lisbon,?had an analysis of the needs of average Goans? in Portugal and ways to make the convention have a broad appeal, the Toronto convention could have followed on it; and?have had more success. Clearly a lot of effort at both conventions (and other Goan conventions) was put into the pizzaz, with little?attention for programs for?practical use of the community.? Perhaps our conventions?need a program sub-committee (among others) apart from the main organizing committee.?
?
As an example,?at the Toronto convention, were other artists invited to showcase their creative works? What would it have taken to do so???So in addition to displaying our?best artist, amateurs Goans can also be given exposure and recognition.?I know of Goans who are adept at painting, pencil drawings and stained glass creativity.? Some of them sell their art work at museum shops in the USA. Right now, recognition at Goan conventions appears to be given based on "whom you know."? When will we shed our parochial mind set??
?
Having said the above, the convention organizers should hold their heads high and consider this as a major contribution to the Goan community, and?an experience they will treasure.? We in turn should thank them for their contributions and service. This, as the baton is passed seamlessly to the next batch / generation of organizers, while the past organizers?serve as "Chairperson of the Board". Part of a good committee is to train the next group to step-up to the plate.? That is where working on sub-committee are good training grounds. Let me call on the organizers to share their own experience (positive and negative) so that future organizers of Goan conventions can learn. Thus we do not repeat the same issues and face the same?dilemmas, as was experienced in Toronto and perhaps Lisbon.? We need a Goan organization and a convention that serves the community and not the reverse.
?
Regards, GL?
?
------------- ?maria gomes <sontos at hotmail.com>
?
When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so.
?
If the theme for the Lisbon Convention? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention?Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.
maria gomes
2008-08-11 19:29:19 UTC
Permalink
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I

Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.

And I am really glad I made it!

The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.

"It is my great pleasure to bring you warmest greetings from Casa de Goa in Lisbon, in particular from the President, Prof. Narana Coissoro, who deeply regrets not being here, as well as from the other members of the Managing Board and all the associates. In spirit they are here sharing the sense of togetherness and of a common commitment to Goa and to the reception countries where goan communities have carved a place and a role for themselves.

When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so. Their promise was our guarantee ? the rest, organisational details, programme, etc. would come later. And it did!

I was just looking at some photos of the Lisbon Convention recently and I realised that 2 of those photos pointed to the future ? the group of very young violinists who during the closing ceremony, filled a few eyes with tears when they interpreted a verse of our very beautiful mand? Sontos bhogt? r? jivak? and another photo of all our participants from aboard with the Saldanhas in the first row, a few moments before the conclusions were read and the responsibility had been passed on.

If the theme for the Lisbon Convention ? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention ? Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

Certainly this is not the place for a debate on the notion of ethnicity and of its different indicators. We are aware that there are different opinions on this sensitive issue but we think it would be relatively easy to accept that the Goan communities in the diaspora are groups that often share a national identity, but preserve specific cultural traditions, norms and references, that are distinct from those of the reception country.

We are deeply convinced that such cultural identity has to be cherished in order to reinforce the sense of individuality of our children understood in John Blacking?s definition as a "consequence of sharing with others, in a variety of social and emotional situations, experiences derived from capabilities that are common to the species, such as the abilities to feel joy, sadness and excitement, to categorize, to abstract and transform, to speak a language and to learn and transmit skills".

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.

Networking capacity is one of the reasons we are here today. It is so much easier to be in contact and to exchange opinions, ideas, facts and mutual concerns about Goa and ourselves. At Casa de Goa we continue to be ready to be part of networking in the diaspora and to put our skills at the service of the global Goan community. We hope to strengthen our ties with other Associations during this week and we look forward to working together with all of you in the future.

Casa de Goa is the house of all Goans and their friends in Lisbon and therefore we wish to offer all of you a standing invitation to visit us".

For those of you who are interested in reading some more about the objectives, the participants and the programme of the Lisbon Convention, you are welcome to go to www.casadegoa.org and look up the information on the Convention of the Goan Diaspora.

In order to set the record straight, I need to go back to last year.

I was sitting by the computer regretting that we had not been able to convince anyone from Canada or from Australia to come to Lisbon. Knowing what huge Goan communities live in both countries, it was a setback. We were very glad of the final confirmation that a number of young participants from Goa (Wendell Rodricks, Jason Keith Fernandes, Clinton Vaz, Ethel da Costa and Chandan Bandekar) would be attending and that all of them were prepared either to make presentations (the first three) or to organise a painting exhibition with the contributions of young contemporary Goan painters (the last two). It was just then that I received an e-mail from Kevin and wrote back immediately that he and Lisette were most welcome to join us which they did.

Like other participants, they paid an enrolment fee and took care of their expenses.

It was part of the objectives of the Lisbon Convention to carry the process further and not to loose the momentum and the very strong ties that had been forged among representatives of so many communities in the diaspora. We had not taken any decision on whether it should be an individual or an association; it did not seem important at the time because any association would be represented by one or more individuals anyway and it would be up to them to garner the support of the other associations in their country.
In our understanding (as I wrote to Eugene on the 1st of August in reply to a direct query from him) Kevin and Lisette were given the opportunity to host the 2008 Convention simply because they offered to do so. In fact, as referred to in the memorandum of understanding before the conclusions in Lisbon "Kevin and Lisette Saldanha, on behalf of the Goanetters Association of Toronto, have expressed their intention of coordinating the various organisations that will participate in the next Convention of the Goan Diaspora, in Canada, in 2008, the significance being the 20th anniversary of the international convention held in that country, in 1988".

Therefore, Casa de Goa was very glad to have the torch carried by Kevin, Lisette, the GNAT and whoever else would be part of the effort and support the Convention in any capacity.
Let me come back to the present and to the reasons for the success of the Toronto Convention. I will not go into a detailed description not only because I arrived at the end of the 1st day but because others have already done so much better than I could have done.

Because of the late arrival I did not attend the workshops. I did sit for a while in Victor?s creative writing workshop where everyone was most interested in defining what the horse said to the bear when they both met in the forest (and from the very creative lines of dialogue that came from participants, I can assure you there was a lot of imagination, humour, and literary talent in that room, and environmental concerns too! I also did hear of how much fun and "inside" designer?s information there was for participants in Wendell?s workshop, and of his charm as well!

Virginia Bras Gomes

(to be followed)
_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
Gabe Menezes
2008-08-11 22:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by maria gomes
From Lisbon to Toronto
Part I
Being at the Toronto Convention was a most enjoyable experience for many reasons. I was not sure I would be able to make it since I was in India on work for 2 weeks immediately prior to the Convention. But we thought it would be important for Casa de Goa (in Lisbon) to be present since, after all, the process began there.
And I am really glad I made it!
The message from Casa de Goa to the Toronto Convention is self-explanatory and I post it here because in some ways it addresses the issues that have been floating around.
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like Casa de Goa, were
given the honour of hosting the Convention.

I have asked this question here to no avail, could you tell me how the
Convention was allocated to Canada, what was the basis of
acceptability; similarly what was the basis of the, so called
allocation to London?

All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions asked. Could I
turn up at the next convention and declare that I am taking the
convention to Timbuctoo?
--
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London.
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2008-08-12 01:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Dear Gabe,
???? Let me repeat my incomplete message, and add to it:
?
Dear Gabe,
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was running high, and many people thought it was an excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at it, and perhaps some others will. Commissioner Faleiro has apparently announced that it will be held in Australia. He certainly has the right to hold a convention wherever he feels it should be held, but the Goan International Convention is not a Government enterprise, even though the Goa Government does support it with funds whenever it is held; and it should never be an official Government enterprise, because then it will be politicized and eventually wither on the vine.
???? Very best regards,
???? Victor
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 09:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Victor
I took absolutely no "umbrage" at Rene informing me
in Toronto that the next Goan Convention would be held
in London. I was most surprised at this totally
unexpected news when informed personally by Rene and
expressed my reservations about the wisdom of doing so
in such a short period of time. I am used to a lead
time of about two years to set up a sound base when
organising an international convention/conference in a
very large city like London. I happen to have
organised very successful one-week residential ones in
a professional capacity and was therefore awed by
Kevin's ability to have generated a very successful
Convention in Toronto in such a short period of time.
Again, I thank him and his committee sincerely for
this major achievement and for something I definitely
enjoyed for the intellectual stimulus it provided, for
the very appropriate social programme and the
networking provision.

As to who organises such a Convention is really not my
business at all assuming a modicum of support for it
is generated to make it a success.
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>
Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
???? To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who
may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not
question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in
Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed
to the best of my ability.
???? In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of
holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was
running high, and many people thought it was an
excellent idea. I thought so too.
???? In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to
hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at
it, and perhaps some others will.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-08-12 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gabe
Good questions from you that are now at least
partially addressed by Victor.

I can assure you that were you to organise such a
Convention to a really exotic place like Timbuctoo,
many people, including me, could not resist the urge
to attend. So, is this Timbuctoo Convention a firm
offer from you then Gabe? I'd need to start saving up
for it immediately. On TV recently, the mystery of
Timbuctoo was presented brilliantly and I would have
no hesitation in assisting you to organise a
Convention there! I am right behind you on this one
Gabe!
Regards
Cornel
Post by Gabe Menezes
QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like
Casa de Goa, were given the honour of hosting the
Convention.
Post by Gabe Menezes
I have asked this question here to no avail, could
you tell me how the Convention was allocated to
Canada, what was the basis of acceptability; similarly
what was the basis of the, so called
Post by Gabe Menezes
allocation to London?
All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions
asked. Could I turn up at the next convention and
declare that I am taking the convention to Timbuctoo?
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-08-13 04:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Maria,
?
With the traditional Goan politeness,?I ask you to?please enlighten us on the "individual and collective achievements" of Goans that were recognized in Lisbon and Toronto?? This phrase was repeated several times in?your article.
?
If the Casa de Goa was celebrating Goan achievements, the achievers from various parts of the Goan world should have been invited, given awards and would have been there to receive them.? From what I can see the same set of (3-5) "achievers" who were trumpeted in?Lisbon were recognized in Toronto.? Is that all that native?and Diaspora Goans have as achievers??
?
Perhaps the first step is for?Goan leaders to know the Goan achievers. Not just the ones whose friends and relatives one knows.? Hopefully we have moved from?'amchem tempar'..? More Goans today have been recognized by the world around them than by Goans.
?
This by no means is to underplay the efforts and the success of the two conventions. But pray, please lets 'walk the talk', at least in the 21st century.
?
Your second paragraph?totally contradicts subsequent?ones. (see below)?Goans are no longer stupid.? That is what the Toronto Goans displayed in unison and likely the majority of Portugal's Goans.? Goan conventions to be truly successful have to be joined by the plebeians / proletariat. The colonial attitude of participation by the fidalgos,?patricians?and the 'gireskai' are long over.? Participation by the en-mass?can be done. Check out Toronto's?Viva Goa!
?
With all due respects if Casa de Goa, Lisbon,?had an analysis of the needs of average Goans? in Portugal and ways to make the convention have a broad appeal, the Toronto convention could have followed on it; and?have had more success. Clearly a lot of effort at both conventions (and other Goan conventions) was put into the pizzaz, with little?attention for programs for?practical use of the community.? Perhaps our conventions?need a program sub-committee (among others) apart from the main organizing committee.?
?
As an example,?at the Toronto convention, were other artists invited to showcase their creative works? What would it have taken to do so???So in addition to displaying our?best artist, amateurs Goans can also be given exposure and recognition.?I know of Goans who are adept at painting, pencil drawings and stained glass creativity.? Some of them sell their art work at museum shops in the USA. Right now, recognition at Goan conventions appears to be given based on "whom you know."? When will we shed our parochial mind set??
?
Having said the above, the convention organizers should hold their heads high and consider this as a major contribution to the Goan community, and?an experience they will treasure.? We in turn should thank them for their contributions and service. This, as the baton is passed seamlessly to the next batch / generation of organizers, while the past organizers?serve as "Chairperson of the Board". Part of a good committee is to train the next group to step-up to the plate.? That is where working on sub-committee are good training grounds. Let me call on the organizers to share their own experience (positive and negative) so that future organizers of Goan conventions can learn. Thus we do not repeat the same issues and face the same?dilemmas, as was experienced in Toronto and perhaps Lisbon.? We need a Goan organization and a convention that serves the community and not the reverse.
?
Regards, GL?
?
------------- ?maria gomes <sontos at hotmail.com>
?
When we decided to host the 1st Convention a year ago, in Lisbon, we hoped that there would be a continuation of the celebration of our individual and collective achievements and that someone else would carry the torch. We were therefore very happy when Kevin and Lisette Saldanha offered to do so.
?
If the theme for the Lisbon Convention? From Goa into the World set the context for a celebration of our achievements, the theme of the Toronto Convention?Goan Identity and Networking Today builds on them to further pursue our quest for an ever changing Goan identity that also takes on board the aspirations of our children in a globalized world where the notion of identity no longer conforms to place of birth or culture of origin.

In Casa de Goa, we have been striving to cherish our identity and to make our children proud of their Goan heritage through music as a symbolic element of representation and cultural reconstruction that will hopefully remain an element of cohesion. We know other Goan Associations have been using other tools. The important message is that our children need to be aware of their heritage before they can become proud of it and to be part of the process of culture in the making in the countries where they live.
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