Discussion:
An Open letter to Sonal Shah
(too old to reply)
marshallmendonza
2008-11-23 06:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Santosh:
The dishonest smear tactics begin by citing a strained trivial association, such as the fact that you have belonged, no matter how nominally or in how unrelated a context, to a religious community, cultural organization or political party whose extremist members have committed crimes
Comment:
1.Refer below links to know and understand how 'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role.Refer
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov112008/scroll20081111100142.asp
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Will_Sonal_Shah_give_Narendra_Modi_visa_power/rssarticleshow/3690558.cms
3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?
4.I am sure investigations will sooner or later throw up the truth about the extent of Sonal's involvement with the VHP and her role in it. If she comes out unscathed, we can all take justifiable pride in an Indo American occupying an important position in the White House.

Regards,

Marshall


--
The New Maruti A-Star is here. View pics, videos, read expert opinion and more on ZigWheels.com
http://images.zigwheels.com/b2cam/a_star.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-23 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by marshallmendonza
1.Refer below links to know and understand how
'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
The smear propaganda continues, now introducing a fresh new installment of partisan fringe websites recycling the same old trivial nonsense. This has always been the modus operandi of this type of activism. As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Those who engage in these disgraceful activities do not know anything else. They do it reflexively. Please note that a new abusive smear and rumor has just been initiated against me below:

"2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role."
......Marshall Mendonza

To top it all, like clock work the ever so handy Nazis are finally invoked below:

"3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"
......Marshall Mendonza

Now, all of you must really be outraged and afraid. Sonal Shah and myself are like members of the Nazi party. And since you are linked to me through Goanet, you must also be held responsible for the crimes in Orissa.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-11-24 16:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Santosh Helekar <chimbelcho at yahoo.com>

As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Mario observes:

Santosh is right. Vijay Prashad belongs to the extreme far left wing kook
fringe that dominated Indian politics in the decades after independence,
destroyed its economy and were eventually relegated to the thrash heap of
history by the emergence of Manmohan Singh and others who finally unleashed
India's potential and initiative.

Now they have found a home in American academe from which to spread their vile propaganda like termites in the foundations of freedom and democracy.

Vijay Prashad's discombobulated brain is unable to reconcile capital and
freedom, private accumulation and human needs, even as he lives and works in America, which has for decades provided living proof that capital is synonymous with freedom, whereas extreme socialism is synonymous with totalitarianism, and private accumulation of wealth is the greatest source of charity to address human needs, whereas there are no extreme socialists to be found wherever the poorest of the poor need assistance.

Far left wingers like Prashad are concerned that Sonal Shah will nudge Barack Obama away from the far left fringe and towards the political center.

Marshall wrote:

Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar ....

Mario observes:

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall. Get a grip, man. Don't embarrass yourself like this and diminish your credibility. Can't you stay on point?

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist, and thus someone who has about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Marshall wrote:

Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes ....

Mario observes:

Not a very rational thought, I must say. I have excoriated others on Goanet when they have used Nazis to make their point, almost always inappropriately. There has rarely been anyone quite as diabolical as the Nazis, before or since, including those who ended up killing far more of their own citizens in political pogroms like Stalin or Mao for example. Thus it is amost always inappropriate to use the Nazi-card. In fact it tends to demonstrate that one is getting desperate, or at least, mentally fatigued.

Furthermore, your thought shows you are uninformed about the aftermath of WW-II. Here's why. You said, "Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"

The answer is "Yes!".

This question has already been answered during the Nuremberg trials. Those members of the Nazi party who did not directly order any killings, or engage in any killings, but remained passive, were not convicted of war crimes. There were many younger Germans who were forced into service in the Nazi cause, who were only tangentially involved in their atrocities, or not involved at all, but were unable to do anything about it.

The Open Letter to Sonal Shah, who has lived and worked in the US since before Marshall was born, turns logic on its head by accusing her of being complicit in the mob violence being prepetrated by the VHP and RSS etc. in India, BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT GONE OUT OF HER WAY TO CONDEMN THEM IN A FORUM SATISFACTORY TO HER CRITICS.

This would be about as absurd as someone accusing these people pretending to be Obama supporters of being complicit in Saddam Hussain's mass political atrocities because, not only did they not condemn them when they were taking place, but they also opposed the regime change in Iraq. For good measure, these people did not even condemn the Taliban when they were whipping Afghan women in the streets and beheading them in the soccer stadium in Kabul for being seen with a man they were not related to.

The fact is Sonal Shah has distanced herself from the Hindu-extremists and there is no evidence that she was any more involved in the mob violence than Stalin's daughter was involved in his mass killings of innocent Soviets.

As a political opponent of this American administration, believe me, it is people like Sonal Shah who will prevent Barack Obama from his more economically destructive instincts to raise tax rates inordinately or implement protectionist trade policies to reward his labor union supporters that will severely damage the demand for the goods and services provided to the US market from India.
Marshall Mendonza
2008-11-27 05:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea:
Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.
Response:
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Regards,

Marshall
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-27 16:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Public opposition to prejudice in all its forms demands that people reject irresponsible speculations, innuendo and defamatory insinuations against individuals and their families, such as in the post below.

Cheers,

Santosh
Post by Marshall Mendonza
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is
perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to
have friends
across the various divides without professing their
beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated
from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also
expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's
for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the
VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas
whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.
Regards,
Marshall
Mario Goveia
2008-11-27 19:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea wrote:

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:31:37 +0530
From: "Marshall Mendonza" <mmendonza55 at gmail.com>

Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.

Mario observes:

The problem with this sophistry is that you described Santosh as a "friend" of the Sangh Parivar, with no evidence to support your assertion. I simply pointed out that this was as likely as you being a friend of the Sangh Parivar. From what I have seen he is simply challenging your facts, and you are jumping to conclusions which have nothing to do with the facts. That's why I asked you to stay on point.

Marshall wrote:

Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.

Mario observes:

I don't consider such a claim by the RSS as evidence of anything. Besides, as a grown woman who has lived in the USA since before you were born, it is specious to lump her in with her family, unless you have some credible evidence that she shares their views - which has denied.

I have several intellectually challenged family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me:-))

Marshall wrote:

And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Mario responds:

If true, this would add to my knowledge of Sonal's parents. It would not add anything to my knowledge of Sonal.

You need to be able to provide some evidence of Sonal's involvement instead of insinuating her involvement based on the involvement of others.

This entire attempt to smear her only caught my eye because I have see NO direct connection between Sonal Shah and mob-violence in India. Neither the original Open Letter nor any of your posts have made the connection. You are all trying to smear her based on the alleged actions of others.

Believe me, as a political opponent of Sonal Shah and the new American administration, I have no political interest in defending her. However, I saw at first hand how her political party and their supporters tried to demonize Sarah Palin during the last political campaign, and not a single insinuation and innuendo against Palin were found to be true. Such attempts at character assassination will always be opposed by me, whether against an ally or an adversary. There are enough facts on which I can confront the new administration without stooping to attacking the character of one of their foot soldiers without any credible evidence.
marshallmendonza
2008-11-23 06:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Santosh:
The dishonest smear tactics begin by citing a strained trivial association, such as the fact that you have belonged, no matter how nominally or in how unrelated a context, to a religious community, cultural organization or political party whose extremist members have committed crimes
Comment:
1.Refer below links to know and understand how 'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role.Refer
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov112008/scroll20081111100142.asp
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Will_Sonal_Shah_give_Narendra_Modi_visa_power/rssarticleshow/3690558.cms
3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?
4.I am sure investigations will sooner or later throw up the truth about the extent of Sonal's involvement with the VHP and her role in it. If she comes out unscathed, we can all take justifiable pride in an Indo American occupying an important position in the White House.

Regards,

Marshall


--
The New Maruti A-Star is here. View pics, videos, read expert opinion and more on ZigWheels.com
http://images.zigwheels.com/b2cam/a_star.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-23 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by marshallmendonza
1.Refer below links to know and understand how
'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
The smear propaganda continues, now introducing a fresh new installment of partisan fringe websites recycling the same old trivial nonsense. This has always been the modus operandi of this type of activism. As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Those who engage in these disgraceful activities do not know anything else. They do it reflexively. Please note that a new abusive smear and rumor has just been initiated against me below:

"2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role."
......Marshall Mendonza

To top it all, like clock work the ever so handy Nazis are finally invoked below:

"3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"
......Marshall Mendonza

Now, all of you must really be outraged and afraid. Sonal Shah and myself are like members of the Nazi party. And since you are linked to me through Goanet, you must also be held responsible for the crimes in Orissa.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-11-24 16:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Santosh Helekar <chimbelcho at yahoo.com>

As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Mario observes:

Santosh is right. Vijay Prashad belongs to the extreme far left wing kook
fringe that dominated Indian politics in the decades after independence,
destroyed its economy and were eventually relegated to the thrash heap of
history by the emergence of Manmohan Singh and others who finally unleashed
India's potential and initiative.

Now they have found a home in American academe from which to spread their vile propaganda like termites in the foundations of freedom and democracy.

Vijay Prashad's discombobulated brain is unable to reconcile capital and
freedom, private accumulation and human needs, even as he lives and works in America, which has for decades provided living proof that capital is synonymous with freedom, whereas extreme socialism is synonymous with totalitarianism, and private accumulation of wealth is the greatest source of charity to address human needs, whereas there are no extreme socialists to be found wherever the poorest of the poor need assistance.

Far left wingers like Prashad are concerned that Sonal Shah will nudge Barack Obama away from the far left fringe and towards the political center.

Marshall wrote:

Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar ....

Mario observes:

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall. Get a grip, man. Don't embarrass yourself like this and diminish your credibility. Can't you stay on point?

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist, and thus someone who has about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Marshall wrote:

Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes ....

Mario observes:

Not a very rational thought, I must say. I have excoriated others on Goanet when they have used Nazis to make their point, almost always inappropriately. There has rarely been anyone quite as diabolical as the Nazis, before or since, including those who ended up killing far more of their own citizens in political pogroms like Stalin or Mao for example. Thus it is amost always inappropriate to use the Nazi-card. In fact it tends to demonstrate that one is getting desperate, or at least, mentally fatigued.

Furthermore, your thought shows you are uninformed about the aftermath of WW-II. Here's why. You said, "Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"

The answer is "Yes!".

This question has already been answered during the Nuremberg trials. Those members of the Nazi party who did not directly order any killings, or engage in any killings, but remained passive, were not convicted of war crimes. There were many younger Germans who were forced into service in the Nazi cause, who were only tangentially involved in their atrocities, or not involved at all, but were unable to do anything about it.

The Open Letter to Sonal Shah, who has lived and worked in the US since before Marshall was born, turns logic on its head by accusing her of being complicit in the mob violence being prepetrated by the VHP and RSS etc. in India, BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT GONE OUT OF HER WAY TO CONDEMN THEM IN A FORUM SATISFACTORY TO HER CRITICS.

This would be about as absurd as someone accusing these people pretending to be Obama supporters of being complicit in Saddam Hussain's mass political atrocities because, not only did they not condemn them when they were taking place, but they also opposed the regime change in Iraq. For good measure, these people did not even condemn the Taliban when they were whipping Afghan women in the streets and beheading them in the soccer stadium in Kabul for being seen with a man they were not related to.

The fact is Sonal Shah has distanced herself from the Hindu-extremists and there is no evidence that she was any more involved in the mob violence than Stalin's daughter was involved in his mass killings of innocent Soviets.

As a political opponent of this American administration, believe me, it is people like Sonal Shah who will prevent Barack Obama from his more economically destructive instincts to raise tax rates inordinately or implement protectionist trade policies to reward his labor union supporters that will severely damage the demand for the goods and services provided to the US market from India.
Marshall Mendonza
2008-11-27 05:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea:
Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.
Response:
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Regards,

Marshall
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-27 16:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Public opposition to prejudice in all its forms demands that people reject irresponsible speculations, innuendo and defamatory insinuations against individuals and their families, such as in the post below.

Cheers,

Santosh
Post by Marshall Mendonza
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is
perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to
have friends
across the various divides without professing their
beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated
from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also
expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's
for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the
VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas
whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.
Regards,
Marshall
Mario Goveia
2008-11-27 19:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea wrote:

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:31:37 +0530
From: "Marshall Mendonza" <mmendonza55 at gmail.com>

Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.

Mario observes:

The problem with this sophistry is that you described Santosh as a "friend" of the Sangh Parivar, with no evidence to support your assertion. I simply pointed out that this was as likely as you being a friend of the Sangh Parivar. From what I have seen he is simply challenging your facts, and you are jumping to conclusions which have nothing to do with the facts. That's why I asked you to stay on point.

Marshall wrote:

Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.

Mario observes:

I don't consider such a claim by the RSS as evidence of anything. Besides, as a grown woman who has lived in the USA since before you were born, it is specious to lump her in with her family, unless you have some credible evidence that she shares their views - which has denied.

I have several intellectually challenged family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me:-))

Marshall wrote:

And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Mario responds:

If true, this would add to my knowledge of Sonal's parents. It would not add anything to my knowledge of Sonal.

You need to be able to provide some evidence of Sonal's involvement instead of insinuating her involvement based on the involvement of others.

This entire attempt to smear her only caught my eye because I have see NO direct connection between Sonal Shah and mob-violence in India. Neither the original Open Letter nor any of your posts have made the connection. You are all trying to smear her based on the alleged actions of others.

Believe me, as a political opponent of Sonal Shah and the new American administration, I have no political interest in defending her. However, I saw at first hand how her political party and their supporters tried to demonize Sarah Palin during the last political campaign, and not a single insinuation and innuendo against Palin were found to be true. Such attempts at character assassination will always be opposed by me, whether against an ally or an adversary. There are enough facts on which I can confront the new administration without stooping to attacking the character of one of their foot soldiers without any credible evidence.
marshallmendonza
2008-11-23 06:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Santosh:
The dishonest smear tactics begin by citing a strained trivial association, such as the fact that you have belonged, no matter how nominally or in how unrelated a context, to a religious community, cultural organization or political party whose extremist members have committed crimes
Comment:
1.Refer below links to know and understand how 'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role.Refer
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov112008/scroll20081111100142.asp
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Will_Sonal_Shah_give_Narendra_Modi_visa_power/rssarticleshow/3690558.cms
3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?
4.I am sure investigations will sooner or later throw up the truth about the extent of Sonal's involvement with the VHP and her role in it. If she comes out unscathed, we can all take justifiable pride in an Indo American occupying an important position in the White House.

Regards,

Marshall


--
The New Maruti A-Star is here. View pics, videos, read expert opinion and more on ZigWheels.com
http://images.zigwheels.com/b2cam/a_star.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-23 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by marshallmendonza
1.Refer below links to know and understand how
'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
The smear propaganda continues, now introducing a fresh new installment of partisan fringe websites recycling the same old trivial nonsense. This has always been the modus operandi of this type of activism. As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Those who engage in these disgraceful activities do not know anything else. They do it reflexively. Please note that a new abusive smear and rumor has just been initiated against me below:

"2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role."
......Marshall Mendonza

To top it all, like clock work the ever so handy Nazis are finally invoked below:

"3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"
......Marshall Mendonza

Now, all of you must really be outraged and afraid. Sonal Shah and myself are like members of the Nazi party. And since you are linked to me through Goanet, you must also be held responsible for the crimes in Orissa.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-11-24 16:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Santosh Helekar <chimbelcho at yahoo.com>

As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Mario observes:

Santosh is right. Vijay Prashad belongs to the extreme far left wing kook
fringe that dominated Indian politics in the decades after independence,
destroyed its economy and were eventually relegated to the thrash heap of
history by the emergence of Manmohan Singh and others who finally unleashed
India's potential and initiative.

Now they have found a home in American academe from which to spread their vile propaganda like termites in the foundations of freedom and democracy.

Vijay Prashad's discombobulated brain is unable to reconcile capital and
freedom, private accumulation and human needs, even as he lives and works in America, which has for decades provided living proof that capital is synonymous with freedom, whereas extreme socialism is synonymous with totalitarianism, and private accumulation of wealth is the greatest source of charity to address human needs, whereas there are no extreme socialists to be found wherever the poorest of the poor need assistance.

Far left wingers like Prashad are concerned that Sonal Shah will nudge Barack Obama away from the far left fringe and towards the political center.

Marshall wrote:

Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar ....

Mario observes:

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall. Get a grip, man. Don't embarrass yourself like this and diminish your credibility. Can't you stay on point?

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist, and thus someone who has about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Marshall wrote:

Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes ....

Mario observes:

Not a very rational thought, I must say. I have excoriated others on Goanet when they have used Nazis to make their point, almost always inappropriately. There has rarely been anyone quite as diabolical as the Nazis, before or since, including those who ended up killing far more of their own citizens in political pogroms like Stalin or Mao for example. Thus it is amost always inappropriate to use the Nazi-card. In fact it tends to demonstrate that one is getting desperate, or at least, mentally fatigued.

Furthermore, your thought shows you are uninformed about the aftermath of WW-II. Here's why. You said, "Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"

The answer is "Yes!".

This question has already been answered during the Nuremberg trials. Those members of the Nazi party who did not directly order any killings, or engage in any killings, but remained passive, were not convicted of war crimes. There were many younger Germans who were forced into service in the Nazi cause, who were only tangentially involved in their atrocities, or not involved at all, but were unable to do anything about it.

The Open Letter to Sonal Shah, who has lived and worked in the US since before Marshall was born, turns logic on its head by accusing her of being complicit in the mob violence being prepetrated by the VHP and RSS etc. in India, BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT GONE OUT OF HER WAY TO CONDEMN THEM IN A FORUM SATISFACTORY TO HER CRITICS.

This would be about as absurd as someone accusing these people pretending to be Obama supporters of being complicit in Saddam Hussain's mass political atrocities because, not only did they not condemn them when they were taking place, but they also opposed the regime change in Iraq. For good measure, these people did not even condemn the Taliban when they were whipping Afghan women in the streets and beheading them in the soccer stadium in Kabul for being seen with a man they were not related to.

The fact is Sonal Shah has distanced herself from the Hindu-extremists and there is no evidence that she was any more involved in the mob violence than Stalin's daughter was involved in his mass killings of innocent Soviets.

As a political opponent of this American administration, believe me, it is people like Sonal Shah who will prevent Barack Obama from his more economically destructive instincts to raise tax rates inordinately or implement protectionist trade policies to reward his labor union supporters that will severely damage the demand for the goods and services provided to the US market from India.
Marshall Mendonza
2008-11-27 05:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea:
Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.
Response:
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Regards,

Marshall
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-27 16:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Public opposition to prejudice in all its forms demands that people reject irresponsible speculations, innuendo and defamatory insinuations against individuals and their families, such as in the post below.

Cheers,

Santosh
Post by Marshall Mendonza
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is
perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to
have friends
across the various divides without professing their
beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated
from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also
expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's
for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the
VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas
whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.
Regards,
Marshall
Mario Goveia
2008-11-27 19:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea wrote:

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:31:37 +0530
From: "Marshall Mendonza" <mmendonza55 at gmail.com>

Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.

Mario observes:

The problem with this sophistry is that you described Santosh as a "friend" of the Sangh Parivar, with no evidence to support your assertion. I simply pointed out that this was as likely as you being a friend of the Sangh Parivar. From what I have seen he is simply challenging your facts, and you are jumping to conclusions which have nothing to do with the facts. That's why I asked you to stay on point.

Marshall wrote:

Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.

Mario observes:

I don't consider such a claim by the RSS as evidence of anything. Besides, as a grown woman who has lived in the USA since before you were born, it is specious to lump her in with her family, unless you have some credible evidence that she shares their views - which has denied.

I have several intellectually challenged family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me:-))

Marshall wrote:

And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Mario responds:

If true, this would add to my knowledge of Sonal's parents. It would not add anything to my knowledge of Sonal.

You need to be able to provide some evidence of Sonal's involvement instead of insinuating her involvement based on the involvement of others.

This entire attempt to smear her only caught my eye because I have see NO direct connection between Sonal Shah and mob-violence in India. Neither the original Open Letter nor any of your posts have made the connection. You are all trying to smear her based on the alleged actions of others.

Believe me, as a political opponent of Sonal Shah and the new American administration, I have no political interest in defending her. However, I saw at first hand how her political party and their supporters tried to demonize Sarah Palin during the last political campaign, and not a single insinuation and innuendo against Palin were found to be true. Such attempts at character assassination will always be opposed by me, whether against an ally or an adversary. There are enough facts on which I can confront the new administration without stooping to attacking the character of one of their foot soldiers without any credible evidence.
marshallmendonza
2008-11-23 06:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Santosh:
The dishonest smear tactics begin by citing a strained trivial association, such as the fact that you have belonged, no matter how nominally or in how unrelated a context, to a religious community, cultural organization or political party whose extremist members have committed crimes
Comment:
1.Refer below links to know and understand how 'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role.Refer
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov112008/scroll20081111100142.asp
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Will_Sonal_Shah_give_Narendra_Modi_visa_power/rssarticleshow/3690558.cms
3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?
4.I am sure investigations will sooner or later throw up the truth about the extent of Sonal's involvement with the VHP and her role in it. If she comes out unscathed, we can all take justifiable pride in an Indo American occupying an important position in the White House.

Regards,

Marshall


--
The New Maruti A-Star is here. View pics, videos, read expert opinion and more on ZigWheels.com
http://images.zigwheels.com/b2cam/a_star.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-23 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by marshallmendonza
1.Refer below links to know and understand how
'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
The smear propaganda continues, now introducing a fresh new installment of partisan fringe websites recycling the same old trivial nonsense. This has always been the modus operandi of this type of activism. As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Those who engage in these disgraceful activities do not know anything else. They do it reflexively. Please note that a new abusive smear and rumor has just been initiated against me below:

"2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role."
......Marshall Mendonza

To top it all, like clock work the ever so handy Nazis are finally invoked below:

"3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"
......Marshall Mendonza

Now, all of you must really be outraged and afraid. Sonal Shah and myself are like members of the Nazi party. And since you are linked to me through Goanet, you must also be held responsible for the crimes in Orissa.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-11-24 16:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Santosh Helekar <chimbelcho at yahoo.com>

As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Mario observes:

Santosh is right. Vijay Prashad belongs to the extreme far left wing kook
fringe that dominated Indian politics in the decades after independence,
destroyed its economy and were eventually relegated to the thrash heap of
history by the emergence of Manmohan Singh and others who finally unleashed
India's potential and initiative.

Now they have found a home in American academe from which to spread their vile propaganda like termites in the foundations of freedom and democracy.

Vijay Prashad's discombobulated brain is unable to reconcile capital and
freedom, private accumulation and human needs, even as he lives and works in America, which has for decades provided living proof that capital is synonymous with freedom, whereas extreme socialism is synonymous with totalitarianism, and private accumulation of wealth is the greatest source of charity to address human needs, whereas there are no extreme socialists to be found wherever the poorest of the poor need assistance.

Far left wingers like Prashad are concerned that Sonal Shah will nudge Barack Obama away from the far left fringe and towards the political center.

Marshall wrote:

Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar ....

Mario observes:

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall. Get a grip, man. Don't embarrass yourself like this and diminish your credibility. Can't you stay on point?

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist, and thus someone who has about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Marshall wrote:

Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes ....

Mario observes:

Not a very rational thought, I must say. I have excoriated others on Goanet when they have used Nazis to make their point, almost always inappropriately. There has rarely been anyone quite as diabolical as the Nazis, before or since, including those who ended up killing far more of their own citizens in political pogroms like Stalin or Mao for example. Thus it is amost always inappropriate to use the Nazi-card. In fact it tends to demonstrate that one is getting desperate, or at least, mentally fatigued.

Furthermore, your thought shows you are uninformed about the aftermath of WW-II. Here's why. You said, "Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"

The answer is "Yes!".

This question has already been answered during the Nuremberg trials. Those members of the Nazi party who did not directly order any killings, or engage in any killings, but remained passive, were not convicted of war crimes. There were many younger Germans who were forced into service in the Nazi cause, who were only tangentially involved in their atrocities, or not involved at all, but were unable to do anything about it.

The Open Letter to Sonal Shah, who has lived and worked in the US since before Marshall was born, turns logic on its head by accusing her of being complicit in the mob violence being prepetrated by the VHP and RSS etc. in India, BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT GONE OUT OF HER WAY TO CONDEMN THEM IN A FORUM SATISFACTORY TO HER CRITICS.

This would be about as absurd as someone accusing these people pretending to be Obama supporters of being complicit in Saddam Hussain's mass political atrocities because, not only did they not condemn them when they were taking place, but they also opposed the regime change in Iraq. For good measure, these people did not even condemn the Taliban when they were whipping Afghan women in the streets and beheading them in the soccer stadium in Kabul for being seen with a man they were not related to.

The fact is Sonal Shah has distanced herself from the Hindu-extremists and there is no evidence that she was any more involved in the mob violence than Stalin's daughter was involved in his mass killings of innocent Soviets.

As a political opponent of this American administration, believe me, it is people like Sonal Shah who will prevent Barack Obama from his more economically destructive instincts to raise tax rates inordinately or implement protectionist trade policies to reward his labor union supporters that will severely damage the demand for the goods and services provided to the US market from India.
Marshall Mendonza
2008-11-27 05:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea:
Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.
Response:
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Regards,

Marshall
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-27 16:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Public opposition to prejudice in all its forms demands that people reject irresponsible speculations, innuendo and defamatory insinuations against individuals and their families, such as in the post below.

Cheers,

Santosh
Post by Marshall Mendonza
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is
perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to
have friends
across the various divides without professing their
beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated
from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also
expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's
for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the
VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas
whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.
Regards,
Marshall
Mario Goveia
2008-11-27 19:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea wrote:

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:31:37 +0530
From: "Marshall Mendonza" <mmendonza55 at gmail.com>

Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.

Mario observes:

The problem with this sophistry is that you described Santosh as a "friend" of the Sangh Parivar, with no evidence to support your assertion. I simply pointed out that this was as likely as you being a friend of the Sangh Parivar. From what I have seen he is simply challenging your facts, and you are jumping to conclusions which have nothing to do with the facts. That's why I asked you to stay on point.

Marshall wrote:

Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.

Mario observes:

I don't consider such a claim by the RSS as evidence of anything. Besides, as a grown woman who has lived in the USA since before you were born, it is specious to lump her in with her family, unless you have some credible evidence that she shares their views - which has denied.

I have several intellectually challenged family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me:-))

Marshall wrote:

And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Mario responds:

If true, this would add to my knowledge of Sonal's parents. It would not add anything to my knowledge of Sonal.

You need to be able to provide some evidence of Sonal's involvement instead of insinuating her involvement based on the involvement of others.

This entire attempt to smear her only caught my eye because I have see NO direct connection between Sonal Shah and mob-violence in India. Neither the original Open Letter nor any of your posts have made the connection. You are all trying to smear her based on the alleged actions of others.

Believe me, as a political opponent of Sonal Shah and the new American administration, I have no political interest in defending her. However, I saw at first hand how her political party and their supporters tried to demonize Sarah Palin during the last political campaign, and not a single insinuation and innuendo against Palin were found to be true. Such attempts at character assassination will always be opposed by me, whether against an ally or an adversary. There are enough facts on which I can confront the new administration without stooping to attacking the character of one of their foot soldiers without any credible evidence.
marshallmendonza
2008-11-23 06:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Santosh:
The dishonest smear tactics begin by citing a strained trivial association, such as the fact that you have belonged, no matter how nominally or in how unrelated a context, to a religious community, cultural organization or political party whose extremist members have committed crimes
Comment:
1.Refer below links to know and understand how 'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role.Refer
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov112008/scroll20081111100142.asp
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Will_Sonal_Shah_give_Narendra_Modi_visa_power/rssarticleshow/3690558.cms
3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?
4.I am sure investigations will sooner or later throw up the truth about the extent of Sonal's involvement with the VHP and her role in it. If she comes out unscathed, we can all take justifiable pride in an Indo American occupying an important position in the White House.

Regards,

Marshall


--
The New Maruti A-Star is here. View pics, videos, read expert opinion and more on ZigWheels.com
http://images.zigwheels.com/b2cam/a_star.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-23 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by marshallmendonza
1.Refer below links to know and understand how
'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
The smear propaganda continues, now introducing a fresh new installment of partisan fringe websites recycling the same old trivial nonsense. This has always been the modus operandi of this type of activism. As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Those who engage in these disgraceful activities do not know anything else. They do it reflexively. Please note that a new abusive smear and rumor has just been initiated against me below:

"2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role."
......Marshall Mendonza

To top it all, like clock work the ever so handy Nazis are finally invoked below:

"3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"
......Marshall Mendonza

Now, all of you must really be outraged and afraid. Sonal Shah and myself are like members of the Nazi party. And since you are linked to me through Goanet, you must also be held responsible for the crimes in Orissa.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-11-24 16:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Santosh Helekar <chimbelcho at yahoo.com>

As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Mario observes:

Santosh is right. Vijay Prashad belongs to the extreme far left wing kook
fringe that dominated Indian politics in the decades after independence,
destroyed its economy and were eventually relegated to the thrash heap of
history by the emergence of Manmohan Singh and others who finally unleashed
India's potential and initiative.

Now they have found a home in American academe from which to spread their vile propaganda like termites in the foundations of freedom and democracy.

Vijay Prashad's discombobulated brain is unable to reconcile capital and
freedom, private accumulation and human needs, even as he lives and works in America, which has for decades provided living proof that capital is synonymous with freedom, whereas extreme socialism is synonymous with totalitarianism, and private accumulation of wealth is the greatest source of charity to address human needs, whereas there are no extreme socialists to be found wherever the poorest of the poor need assistance.

Far left wingers like Prashad are concerned that Sonal Shah will nudge Barack Obama away from the far left fringe and towards the political center.

Marshall wrote:

Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar ....

Mario observes:

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall. Get a grip, man. Don't embarrass yourself like this and diminish your credibility. Can't you stay on point?

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist, and thus someone who has about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Marshall wrote:

Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes ....

Mario observes:

Not a very rational thought, I must say. I have excoriated others on Goanet when they have used Nazis to make their point, almost always inappropriately. There has rarely been anyone quite as diabolical as the Nazis, before or since, including those who ended up killing far more of their own citizens in political pogroms like Stalin or Mao for example. Thus it is amost always inappropriate to use the Nazi-card. In fact it tends to demonstrate that one is getting desperate, or at least, mentally fatigued.

Furthermore, your thought shows you are uninformed about the aftermath of WW-II. Here's why. You said, "Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"

The answer is "Yes!".

This question has already been answered during the Nuremberg trials. Those members of the Nazi party who did not directly order any killings, or engage in any killings, but remained passive, were not convicted of war crimes. There were many younger Germans who were forced into service in the Nazi cause, who were only tangentially involved in their atrocities, or not involved at all, but were unable to do anything about it.

The Open Letter to Sonal Shah, who has lived and worked in the US since before Marshall was born, turns logic on its head by accusing her of being complicit in the mob violence being prepetrated by the VHP and RSS etc. in India, BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT GONE OUT OF HER WAY TO CONDEMN THEM IN A FORUM SATISFACTORY TO HER CRITICS.

This would be about as absurd as someone accusing these people pretending to be Obama supporters of being complicit in Saddam Hussain's mass political atrocities because, not only did they not condemn them when they were taking place, but they also opposed the regime change in Iraq. For good measure, these people did not even condemn the Taliban when they were whipping Afghan women in the streets and beheading them in the soccer stadium in Kabul for being seen with a man they were not related to.

The fact is Sonal Shah has distanced herself from the Hindu-extremists and there is no evidence that she was any more involved in the mob violence than Stalin's daughter was involved in his mass killings of innocent Soviets.

As a political opponent of this American administration, believe me, it is people like Sonal Shah who will prevent Barack Obama from his more economically destructive instincts to raise tax rates inordinately or implement protectionist trade policies to reward his labor union supporters that will severely damage the demand for the goods and services provided to the US market from India.
Marshall Mendonza
2008-11-27 05:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea:
Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.
Response:
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Regards,

Marshall
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-27 16:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Public opposition to prejudice in all its forms demands that people reject irresponsible speculations, innuendo and defamatory insinuations against individuals and their families, such as in the post below.

Cheers,

Santosh
Post by Marshall Mendonza
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is
perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to
have friends
across the various divides without professing their
beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated
from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also
expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's
for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the
VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas
whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.
Regards,
Marshall
Mario Goveia
2008-11-27 19:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea wrote:

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:31:37 +0530
From: "Marshall Mendonza" <mmendonza55 at gmail.com>

Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.

Mario observes:

The problem with this sophistry is that you described Santosh as a "friend" of the Sangh Parivar, with no evidence to support your assertion. I simply pointed out that this was as likely as you being a friend of the Sangh Parivar. From what I have seen he is simply challenging your facts, and you are jumping to conclusions which have nothing to do with the facts. That's why I asked you to stay on point.

Marshall wrote:

Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.

Mario observes:

I don't consider such a claim by the RSS as evidence of anything. Besides, as a grown woman who has lived in the USA since before you were born, it is specious to lump her in with her family, unless you have some credible evidence that she shares their views - which has denied.

I have several intellectually challenged family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me:-))

Marshall wrote:

And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Mario responds:

If true, this would add to my knowledge of Sonal's parents. It would not add anything to my knowledge of Sonal.

You need to be able to provide some evidence of Sonal's involvement instead of insinuating her involvement based on the involvement of others.

This entire attempt to smear her only caught my eye because I have see NO direct connection between Sonal Shah and mob-violence in India. Neither the original Open Letter nor any of your posts have made the connection. You are all trying to smear her based on the alleged actions of others.

Believe me, as a political opponent of Sonal Shah and the new American administration, I have no political interest in defending her. However, I saw at first hand how her political party and their supporters tried to demonize Sarah Palin during the last political campaign, and not a single insinuation and innuendo against Palin were found to be true. Such attempts at character assassination will always be opposed by me, whether against an ally or an adversary. There are enough facts on which I can confront the new administration without stooping to attacking the character of one of their foot soldiers without any credible evidence.
marshallmendonza
2008-11-23 06:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Santosh:
The dishonest smear tactics begin by citing a strained trivial association, such as the fact that you have belonged, no matter how nominally or in how unrelated a context, to a religious community, cultural organization or political party whose extremist members have committed crimes
Comment:
1.Refer below links to know and understand how 'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role.Refer
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov112008/scroll20081111100142.asp
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Will_Sonal_Shah_give_Narendra_Modi_visa_power/rssarticleshow/3690558.cms
3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?
4.I am sure investigations will sooner or later throw up the truth about the extent of Sonal's involvement with the VHP and her role in it. If she comes out unscathed, we can all take justifiable pride in an Indo American occupying an important position in the White House.

Regards,

Marshall


--
The New Maruti A-Star is here. View pics, videos, read expert opinion and more on ZigWheels.com
http://images.zigwheels.com/b2cam/a_star.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-23 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by marshallmendonza
1.Refer below links to know and understand how
'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
The smear propaganda continues, now introducing a fresh new installment of partisan fringe websites recycling the same old trivial nonsense. This has always been the modus operandi of this type of activism. As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Those who engage in these disgraceful activities do not know anything else. They do it reflexively. Please note that a new abusive smear and rumor has just been initiated against me below:

"2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role."
......Marshall Mendonza

To top it all, like clock work the ever so handy Nazis are finally invoked below:

"3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"
......Marshall Mendonza

Now, all of you must really be outraged and afraid. Sonal Shah and myself are like members of the Nazi party. And since you are linked to me through Goanet, you must also be held responsible for the crimes in Orissa.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-11-24 16:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Santosh Helekar <chimbelcho at yahoo.com>

As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Mario observes:

Santosh is right. Vijay Prashad belongs to the extreme far left wing kook
fringe that dominated Indian politics in the decades after independence,
destroyed its economy and were eventually relegated to the thrash heap of
history by the emergence of Manmohan Singh and others who finally unleashed
India's potential and initiative.

Now they have found a home in American academe from which to spread their vile propaganda like termites in the foundations of freedom and democracy.

Vijay Prashad's discombobulated brain is unable to reconcile capital and
freedom, private accumulation and human needs, even as he lives and works in America, which has for decades provided living proof that capital is synonymous with freedom, whereas extreme socialism is synonymous with totalitarianism, and private accumulation of wealth is the greatest source of charity to address human needs, whereas there are no extreme socialists to be found wherever the poorest of the poor need assistance.

Far left wingers like Prashad are concerned that Sonal Shah will nudge Barack Obama away from the far left fringe and towards the political center.

Marshall wrote:

Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar ....

Mario observes:

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall. Get a grip, man. Don't embarrass yourself like this and diminish your credibility. Can't you stay on point?

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist, and thus someone who has about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Marshall wrote:

Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes ....

Mario observes:

Not a very rational thought, I must say. I have excoriated others on Goanet when they have used Nazis to make their point, almost always inappropriately. There has rarely been anyone quite as diabolical as the Nazis, before or since, including those who ended up killing far more of their own citizens in political pogroms like Stalin or Mao for example. Thus it is amost always inappropriate to use the Nazi-card. In fact it tends to demonstrate that one is getting desperate, or at least, mentally fatigued.

Furthermore, your thought shows you are uninformed about the aftermath of WW-II. Here's why. You said, "Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"

The answer is "Yes!".

This question has already been answered during the Nuremberg trials. Those members of the Nazi party who did not directly order any killings, or engage in any killings, but remained passive, were not convicted of war crimes. There were many younger Germans who were forced into service in the Nazi cause, who were only tangentially involved in their atrocities, or not involved at all, but were unable to do anything about it.

The Open Letter to Sonal Shah, who has lived and worked in the US since before Marshall was born, turns logic on its head by accusing her of being complicit in the mob violence being prepetrated by the VHP and RSS etc. in India, BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT GONE OUT OF HER WAY TO CONDEMN THEM IN A FORUM SATISFACTORY TO HER CRITICS.

This would be about as absurd as someone accusing these people pretending to be Obama supporters of being complicit in Saddam Hussain's mass political atrocities because, not only did they not condemn them when they were taking place, but they also opposed the regime change in Iraq. For good measure, these people did not even condemn the Taliban when they were whipping Afghan women in the streets and beheading them in the soccer stadium in Kabul for being seen with a man they were not related to.

The fact is Sonal Shah has distanced herself from the Hindu-extremists and there is no evidence that she was any more involved in the mob violence than Stalin's daughter was involved in his mass killings of innocent Soviets.

As a political opponent of this American administration, believe me, it is people like Sonal Shah who will prevent Barack Obama from his more economically destructive instincts to raise tax rates inordinately or implement protectionist trade policies to reward his labor union supporters that will severely damage the demand for the goods and services provided to the US market from India.
Marshall Mendonza
2008-11-27 05:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea:
Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.
Response:
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Regards,

Marshall
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-27 16:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Public opposition to prejudice in all its forms demands that people reject irresponsible speculations, innuendo and defamatory insinuations against individuals and their families, such as in the post below.

Cheers,

Santosh
Post by Marshall Mendonza
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is
perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to
have friends
across the various divides without professing their
beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated
from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also
expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's
for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the
VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas
whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.
Regards,
Marshall
Mario Goveia
2008-11-27 19:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea wrote:

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:31:37 +0530
From: "Marshall Mendonza" <mmendonza55 at gmail.com>

Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.

Mario observes:

The problem with this sophistry is that you described Santosh as a "friend" of the Sangh Parivar, with no evidence to support your assertion. I simply pointed out that this was as likely as you being a friend of the Sangh Parivar. From what I have seen he is simply challenging your facts, and you are jumping to conclusions which have nothing to do with the facts. That's why I asked you to stay on point.

Marshall wrote:

Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.

Mario observes:

I don't consider such a claim by the RSS as evidence of anything. Besides, as a grown woman who has lived in the USA since before you were born, it is specious to lump her in with her family, unless you have some credible evidence that she shares their views - which has denied.

I have several intellectually challenged family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me:-))

Marshall wrote:

And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Mario responds:

If true, this would add to my knowledge of Sonal's parents. It would not add anything to my knowledge of Sonal.

You need to be able to provide some evidence of Sonal's involvement instead of insinuating her involvement based on the involvement of others.

This entire attempt to smear her only caught my eye because I have see NO direct connection between Sonal Shah and mob-violence in India. Neither the original Open Letter nor any of your posts have made the connection. You are all trying to smear her based on the alleged actions of others.

Believe me, as a political opponent of Sonal Shah and the new American administration, I have no political interest in defending her. However, I saw at first hand how her political party and their supporters tried to demonize Sarah Palin during the last political campaign, and not a single insinuation and innuendo against Palin were found to be true. Such attempts at character assassination will always be opposed by me, whether against an ally or an adversary. There are enough facts on which I can confront the new administration without stooping to attacking the character of one of their foot soldiers without any credible evidence.
marshallmendonza
2008-11-23 06:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Santosh:
The dishonest smear tactics begin by citing a strained trivial association, such as the fact that you have belonged, no matter how nominally or in how unrelated a context, to a religious community, cultural organization or political party whose extremist members have committed crimes
Comment:
1.Refer below links to know and understand how 'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role.Refer
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov112008/scroll20081111100142.asp
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Will_Sonal_Shah_give_Narendra_Modi_visa_power/rssarticleshow/3690558.cms
3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?
4.I am sure investigations will sooner or later throw up the truth about the extent of Sonal's involvement with the VHP and her role in it. If she comes out unscathed, we can all take justifiable pride in an Indo American occupying an important position in the White House.

Regards,

Marshall


--
The New Maruti A-Star is here. View pics, videos, read expert opinion and more on ZigWheels.com
http://images.zigwheels.com/b2cam/a_star.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-23 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by marshallmendonza
1.Refer below links to know and understand how
'trivial' and 'nominal' was the association.
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2442
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-point-denying-sonal-shahs.html
The smear propaganda continues, now introducing a fresh new installment of partisan fringe websites recycling the same old trivial nonsense. This has always been the modus operandi of this type of activism. As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Those who engage in these disgraceful activities do not know anything else. They do it reflexively. Please note that a new abusive smear and rumor has just been initiated against me below:

"2.Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar to be a little more circumspect in tom-toming their association with Sonal and her family and their expectations from her in her new role."
......Marshall Mendonza

To top it all, like clock work the ever so handy Nazis are finally invoked below:

"3.Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"
......Marshall Mendonza

Now, all of you must really be outraged and afraid. Sonal Shah and myself are like members of the Nazi party. And since you are linked to me through Goanet, you must also be held responsible for the crimes in Orissa.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-11-24 16:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Santosh Helekar <chimbelcho at yahoo.com>

As I pointed out elsewhere, the guy who started the smear against Sonal Shah this time around, Vijay Prashad, also tried to smear Mother Teresa years ago because of her links with convicted embezzlers of public funds and a genocidal dictator. Please see the following fringe website for that garbage:
http://www.cpa.org.au/amrarch/40vp.html

Mario observes:

Santosh is right. Vijay Prashad belongs to the extreme far left wing kook
fringe that dominated Indian politics in the decades after independence,
destroyed its economy and were eventually relegated to the thrash heap of
history by the emergence of Manmohan Singh and others who finally unleashed
India's potential and initiative.

Now they have found a home in American academe from which to spread their vile propaganda like termites in the foundations of freedom and democracy.

Vijay Prashad's discombobulated brain is unable to reconcile capital and
freedom, private accumulation and human needs, even as he lives and works in America, which has for decades provided living proof that capital is synonymous with freedom, whereas extreme socialism is synonymous with totalitarianism, and private accumulation of wealth is the greatest source of charity to address human needs, whereas there are no extreme socialists to be found wherever the poorest of the poor need assistance.

Far left wingers like Prashad are concerned that Sonal Shah will nudge Barack Obama away from the far left fringe and towards the political center.

Marshall wrote:

Santosh would do Sonal a favour if could advise his friends in the sangh parivar ....

Mario observes:

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall. Get a grip, man. Don't embarrass yourself like this and diminish your credibility. Can't you stay on point?

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist, and thus someone who has about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Marshall wrote:

Just a thought. Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes ....

Mario observes:

Not a very rational thought, I must say. I have excoriated others on Goanet when they have used Nazis to make their point, almost always inappropriately. There has rarely been anyone quite as diabolical as the Nazis, before or since, including those who ended up killing far more of their own citizens in political pogroms like Stalin or Mao for example. Thus it is amost always inappropriate to use the Nazi-card. In fact it tends to demonstrate that one is getting desperate, or at least, mentally fatigued.

Furthermore, your thought shows you are uninformed about the aftermath of WW-II. Here's why. You said, "Would members of the Nazi party be considered innocent of war crimes if they did not directly order any killings but remained passive while members of their party were involved?"

The answer is "Yes!".

This question has already been answered during the Nuremberg trials. Those members of the Nazi party who did not directly order any killings, or engage in any killings, but remained passive, were not convicted of war crimes. There were many younger Germans who were forced into service in the Nazi cause, who were only tangentially involved in their atrocities, or not involved at all, but were unable to do anything about it.

The Open Letter to Sonal Shah, who has lived and worked in the US since before Marshall was born, turns logic on its head by accusing her of being complicit in the mob violence being prepetrated by the VHP and RSS etc. in India, BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT GONE OUT OF HER WAY TO CONDEMN THEM IN A FORUM SATISFACTORY TO HER CRITICS.

This would be about as absurd as someone accusing these people pretending to be Obama supporters of being complicit in Saddam Hussain's mass political atrocities because, not only did they not condemn them when they were taking place, but they also opposed the regime change in Iraq. For good measure, these people did not even condemn the Taliban when they were whipping Afghan women in the streets and beheading them in the soccer stadium in Kabul for being seen with a man they were not related to.

The fact is Sonal Shah has distanced herself from the Hindu-extremists and there is no evidence that she was any more involved in the mob violence than Stalin's daughter was involved in his mass killings of innocent Soviets.

As a political opponent of this American administration, believe me, it is people like Sonal Shah who will prevent Barack Obama from his more economically destructive instincts to raise tax rates inordinately or implement protectionist trade policies to reward his labor union supporters that will severely damage the demand for the goods and services provided to the US market from India.
Marshall Mendonza
2008-11-27 05:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea:
Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.
Response:
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Regards,

Marshall
Santosh Helekar
2008-11-27 16:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Public opposition to prejudice in all its forms demands that people reject irresponsible speculations, innuendo and defamatory insinuations against individuals and their families, such as in the post below.

Cheers,

Santosh
Post by Marshall Mendonza
Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is
perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to
have friends
across the various divides without professing their
beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.
Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated
from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also
expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.
And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's
for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the
VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas
whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.
Regards,
Marshall
Mario Goveia
2008-11-27 19:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Mario Goviea wrote:

Everyone on Goanet knows Santosh is a MAHA-atheist and thus someone who has
about as many "friends" in the Sangh Parivar as you or Fr. Ivo.

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:31:37 +0530
From: "Marshall Mendonza" <mmendonza55 at gmail.com>

Without discussing Santosh in any way, I submit it is perfectly possible for
one - whether he be an atheist or agnostic or believer to have friends
across the various divides without professing their beliefs. Friendships can
cut across class, caste, creed or colour lines.

Mario observes:

The problem with this sophistry is that you described Santosh as a "friend" of the Sangh Parivar, with no evidence to support your assertion. I simply pointed out that this was as likely as you being a friend of the Sangh Parivar. From what I have seen he is simply challenging your facts, and you are jumping to conclusions which have nothing to do with the facts. That's why I asked you to stay on point.

Marshall wrote:

Further Sonal Shah's links with the VHP have emanated from the RSS itself
who have claimed proximity to her and her family. They also expect her to
get Narendra Modi's visa restored.

Mario observes:

I don't consider such a claim by the RSS as evidence of anything. Besides, as a grown woman who has lived in the USA since before you were born, it is specious to lump her in with her family, unless you have some credible evidence that she shares their views - which has denied.

I have several intellectually challenged family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me:-))

Marshall wrote:

And just to add to your knowledge, the Ekal Vidyalaya's for whom Sonal's
parents are actively mobilising funds are the fronts of the VHP which have
been in the forefront of the violence in tribal areas whether in the Dangs
or Kandhamal or elsewhere.

Mario responds:

If true, this would add to my knowledge of Sonal's parents. It would not add anything to my knowledge of Sonal.

You need to be able to provide some evidence of Sonal's involvement instead of insinuating her involvement based on the involvement of others.

This entire attempt to smear her only caught my eye because I have see NO direct connection between Sonal Shah and mob-violence in India. Neither the original Open Letter nor any of your posts have made the connection. You are all trying to smear her based on the alleged actions of others.

Believe me, as a political opponent of Sonal Shah and the new American administration, I have no political interest in defending her. However, I saw at first hand how her political party and their supporters tried to demonize Sarah Palin during the last political campaign, and not a single insinuation and innuendo against Palin were found to be true. Such attempts at character assassination will always be opposed by me, whether against an ally or an adversary. There are enough facts on which I can confront the new administration without stooping to attacking the character of one of their foot soldiers without any credible evidence.
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