Discussion:
: Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
(too old to reply)
Sebastian Borges
2013-10-27 07:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Goanet] Subject:? Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi

Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov.? Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
?
Sebastian Borges
?On 26 Oct 2013 Alfred de Tavares <alfredtavares at hotmail.com> wrote:

Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,?
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.?
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...

Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
life, sketchily recorded. We had:

Gui'natti/gui'natem? X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili

4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.

All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.

Then going higher:

20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.?

These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.

The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
depend on type of field/cultivation:?
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up?
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.?

Khazans in turn have two types of planting:
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season?
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.

These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.

in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.

There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch

What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.

What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.

I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.

I promise also detailed list of the fluid-measurs:
Xer, pau, so on.

& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....

I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.

OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.?

A reminiscent Chacha...

---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Alfred de Tavares
2013-10-28 09:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Prossor Bostaum Bab:

Moi Mogan ani Man'nan Tumcho nomam kortam.
Thanks for the emendations. That's precisely the help I requested for in compiling the list of our nearly-erstwhile weights & measures.
I have been away from Goa since 1968. That -- long absence -- plus mymounting ailments, along with related medications, I believe, has resulted in a substantial amnesiac-syndrome.
Hence, You willing, let's make a little effort & present this list as perfectly calibrated as we can.
Towards this purpose, I wish to invite you, Victor Hugo, Augusto & a fewother cognoscenti, to join me for a lunch, in Loutulim, come December at a date mutually suitable for the bunch.
OK? It will, indeed, be a great pleasure & we will have contributed somethingusefull to Goan-way-of-life in transition: Our, hardly insignificant, contributionto our posterity.
Yours sincerely,Chacha Alfred.
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 00:29:38 -0700
From: s_m_borges at yahoo.com
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Re: [Goanet] Subject: Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov. Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
Sebastian Borges
Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...
Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
Gui'natti/gui'natem X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili
4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.
All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.
20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.
These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.
The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.
These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.
in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.
There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch
What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.
What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.
I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.
Xer, pau, so on.
& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....
I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.
OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.
A reminiscent Chacha...
---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Sebastian Borges
2013-10-27 07:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Goanet] Subject:? Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi

Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov.? Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
?
Sebastian Borges
?On 26 Oct 2013 Alfred de Tavares <alfredtavares at hotmail.com> wrote:

Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,?
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.?
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...

Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
life, sketchily recorded. We had:

Gui'natti/gui'natem? X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili

4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.

All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.

Then going higher:

20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.?

These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.

The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
depend on type of field/cultivation:?
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up?
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.?

Khazans in turn have two types of planting:
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season?
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.

These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.

in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.

There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch

What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.

What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.

I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.

I promise also detailed list of the fluid-measurs:
Xer, pau, so on.

& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....

I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.

OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.?

A reminiscent Chacha...

---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Alfred de Tavares
2013-10-28 09:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Prossor Bostaum Bab:

Moi Mogan ani Man'nan Tumcho nomam kortam.
Thanks for the emendations. That's precisely the help I requested for in compiling the list of our nearly-erstwhile weights & measures.
I have been away from Goa since 1968. That -- long absence -- plus mymounting ailments, along with related medications, I believe, has resulted in a substantial amnesiac-syndrome.
Hence, You willing, let's make a little effort & present this list as perfectly calibrated as we can.
Towards this purpose, I wish to invite you, Victor Hugo, Augusto & a fewother cognoscenti, to join me for a lunch, in Loutulim, come December at a date mutually suitable for the bunch.
OK? It will, indeed, be a great pleasure & we will have contributed somethingusefull to Goan-way-of-life in transition: Our, hardly insignificant, contributionto our posterity.
Yours sincerely,Chacha Alfred.
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 00:29:38 -0700
From: s_m_borges at yahoo.com
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Re: [Goanet] Subject: Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov. Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
Sebastian Borges
Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...
Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
Gui'natti/gui'natem X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili
4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.
All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.
20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.
These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.
The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.
These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.
in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.
There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch
What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.
What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.
I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.
Xer, pau, so on.
& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....
I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.
OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.
A reminiscent Chacha...
---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Sebastian Borges
2013-10-27 07:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Goanet] Subject:? Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi

Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov.? Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
?
Sebastian Borges
?On 26 Oct 2013 Alfred de Tavares <alfredtavares at hotmail.com> wrote:

Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,?
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.?
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...

Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
life, sketchily recorded. We had:

Gui'natti/gui'natem? X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili

4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.

All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.

Then going higher:

20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.?

These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.

The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
depend on type of field/cultivation:?
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up?
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.?

Khazans in turn have two types of planting:
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season?
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.

These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.

in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.

There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch

What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.

What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.

I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.

I promise also detailed list of the fluid-measurs:
Xer, pau, so on.

& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....

I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.

OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.?

A reminiscent Chacha...

---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Alfred de Tavares
2013-10-28 09:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Prossor Bostaum Bab:

Moi Mogan ani Man'nan Tumcho nomam kortam.
Thanks for the emendations. That's precisely the help I requested for in compiling the list of our nearly-erstwhile weights & measures.
I have been away from Goa since 1968. That -- long absence -- plus mymounting ailments, along with related medications, I believe, has resulted in a substantial amnesiac-syndrome.
Hence, You willing, let's make a little effort & present this list as perfectly calibrated as we can.
Towards this purpose, I wish to invite you, Victor Hugo, Augusto & a fewother cognoscenti, to join me for a lunch, in Loutulim, come December at a date mutually suitable for the bunch.
OK? It will, indeed, be a great pleasure & we will have contributed somethingusefull to Goan-way-of-life in transition: Our, hardly insignificant, contributionto our posterity.
Yours sincerely,Chacha Alfred.
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 00:29:38 -0700
From: s_m_borges at yahoo.com
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Re: [Goanet] Subject: Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov. Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
Sebastian Borges
Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...
Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
Gui'natti/gui'natem X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili
4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.
All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.
20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.
These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.
The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.
These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.
in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.
There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch
What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.
What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.
I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.
Xer, pau, so on.
& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....
I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.
OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.
A reminiscent Chacha...
---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Sebastian Borges
2013-10-27 07:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Goanet] Subject:? Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi

Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov.? Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
?
Sebastian Borges
?On 26 Oct 2013 Alfred de Tavares <alfredtavares at hotmail.com> wrote:

Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,?
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.?
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...

Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
life, sketchily recorded. We had:

Gui'natti/gui'natem? X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili

4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.

All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.

Then going higher:

20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.?

These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.

The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
depend on type of field/cultivation:?
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up?
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.?

Khazans in turn have two types of planting:
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season?
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.

These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.

in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.

There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch

What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.

What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.

I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.

I promise also detailed list of the fluid-measurs:
Xer, pau, so on.

& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....

I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.

OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.?

A reminiscent Chacha...

---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Alfred de Tavares
2013-10-28 09:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Prossor Bostaum Bab:

Moi Mogan ani Man'nan Tumcho nomam kortam.
Thanks for the emendations. That's precisely the help I requested for in compiling the list of our nearly-erstwhile weights & measures.
I have been away from Goa since 1968. That -- long absence -- plus mymounting ailments, along with related medications, I believe, has resulted in a substantial amnesiac-syndrome.
Hence, You willing, let's make a little effort & present this list as perfectly calibrated as we can.
Towards this purpose, I wish to invite you, Victor Hugo, Augusto & a fewother cognoscenti, to join me for a lunch, in Loutulim, come December at a date mutually suitable for the bunch.
OK? It will, indeed, be a great pleasure & we will have contributed somethingusefull to Goan-way-of-life in transition: Our, hardly insignificant, contributionto our posterity.
Yours sincerely,Chacha Alfred.
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 00:29:38 -0700
From: s_m_borges at yahoo.com
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Re: [Goanet] Subject: Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov. Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
Sebastian Borges
Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...
Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
Gui'natti/gui'natem X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili
4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.
All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.
20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.
These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.
The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.
These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.
in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.
There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch
What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.
What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.
I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.
Xer, pau, so on.
& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....
I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.
OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.
A reminiscent Chacha...
---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Sebastian Borges
2013-10-27 07:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Goanet] Subject:? Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi

Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov.? Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
?
Sebastian Borges
?On 26 Oct 2013 Alfred de Tavares <alfredtavares at hotmail.com> wrote:

Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,?
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.?
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...

Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
life, sketchily recorded. We had:

Gui'natti/gui'natem? X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili

4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.

All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.

Then going higher:

20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.?

These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.

The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
depend on type of field/cultivation:?
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up?
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.?

Khazans in turn have two types of planting:
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season?
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.

These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.

in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.

There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch

What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.

What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.

I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.

I promise also detailed list of the fluid-measurs:
Xer, pau, so on.

& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....

I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.

OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.?

A reminiscent Chacha...

---------------------
Sebastian Borges
Alfred de Tavares
2013-10-28 09:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Prossor Bostaum Bab:

Moi Mogan ani Man'nan Tumcho nomam kortam.
Thanks for the emendations. That's precisely the help I requested for in compiling the list of our nearly-erstwhile weights & measures.
I have been away from Goa since 1968. That -- long absence -- plus mymounting ailments, along with related medications, I believe, has resulted in a substantial amnesiac-syndrome.
Hence, You willing, let's make a little effort & present this list as perfectly calibrated as we can.
Towards this purpose, I wish to invite you, Victor Hugo, Augusto & a fewother cognoscenti, to join me for a lunch, in Loutulim, come December at a date mutually suitable for the bunch.
OK? It will, indeed, be a great pleasure & we will have contributed somethingusefull to Goan-way-of-life in transition: Our, hardly insignificant, contributionto our posterity.
Yours sincerely,Chacha Alfred.
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 00:29:38 -0700
From: s_m_borges at yahoo.com
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Re: [Goanet] Subject: Old-style
measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have
different meanings in different villages?
In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem.
Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov. Kuddov x 20 = 1
khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's
reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio!
In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is
called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms
are interchanged.
Chacha may please clarify.
Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation
of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use.
Sebastian Borges
Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in
these weights & measures of millenia
past. Soon our neonati generations will not know
about this paraphernalia, essential
to our goneby existence...&, good God forbid,
such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils,
slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards,
sharpeners....PAPER may be heading towards oblivion.
Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to
say....how very apocalyptic...
Thus a record of pre-kilogram....-littre measures,
inalianable necessities of every-minute
Gui'natti/gui'natem X 4, equals 1 anna'tti
(ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili
4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1
vod'lo/dedd mond.
All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie
levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien)
ie heaped/peaked-up.
20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1
kumbh.
These were almost always measured kortad; but
could on occasion, depending on
the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare)
could be asked for in sui form.
The proportion to ammount of seed to a field
Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides;
khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up
(dyked, Dutch-style fields.
pausav/vaingon is the rainy season
crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by
respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs
which were filled up and used as sources of
irrigation during dry season.
These, again man'made water storages turn out rich
yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and
in flow of thei waters are regulated with
admirably efficient sluice-gates.
in our times their cash yields have crossed into
crores at annual village comunidade auctions.
There is much detail to be filled up, which I
intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch
What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia,
unless they already have it.
What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to
various fields/crops. Will do so in December.
I use to help my Pai a good deal during the
mirg/cultivation times, before going on to
boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc.
Xer, pau, so on.
& the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis,
winowing.....
I invite all informed friends to please fill in as
details of yester-things tickle you minds.
OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an
enviable collection of all these implements.
A reminiscent Chacha...
---------------------
Sebastian Borges
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