[Goanet] NYT - Loutulim Journal

[Eddie]

Loutulim Journal - NYT posted by eddie Fernande's on June 03.

This article has caught the attention worldwide as it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by James Brooke - NYT

Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

[Bernado Colaco]

Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?

Colaco

Post by Eddie
This article has caught the attention worldwide as
it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi
Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that
lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by
James Brooke - NYT
Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

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[Tim de Mello]

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?
Colaco

What is this type of negative post supposed to achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said (many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far more into Goa than it
takes.

This is evident today when one sees the continuing strengthening of Goa's
infrastructure from roads, rail, telecommunications, power and yes, even
water.

I do not understand the "doom and gloom" scenario of a projected "Will the
hitlerites destroy the
churches?" Does the writer have some inside scoop on the thinking and
implementation plans of the RSS or is this conjecture on his part. If it is
the former, please give us the benefit of it. If it is the latter then these
thoughts are best left in the writer's mind.

And let us not just extrapolate from the Ayodhya issue to justify the
argument - as it would be just hype, baseless and meaningless.

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

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[Bernado Colaco]

Mello,

The NYT article was like opening a can of worms. The
BJP are ready to bend their ideals to continue the
loot of Goa. I remember a couple of years ago when
Parrikar came to power, he went all numb at the
presence of Fundacao Oriente in Goa. He pleaded that
FO should donate to his government rather than
renovate or rebuild churches.

I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!

Regards

Colaco

Post by Tim de Mello
What is this type of negative post supposed to
achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said
(many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far
more into Goa than it
takes.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!
Colaco

What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or capitalist economy.

What exactly do you see as the drain of resources? Fish resources, iron
ore are the local produce exiting the state. But these are sold by private
individuals (in Goa) to private individuals outside. The industrial
sector, which depends on large external inputs of raw material and labour,
is not such a black-and-white case.

The Goa-is-earning-foreign-exchange-for-India argument might have made a
little sense in the days when foreign exchange was hard to come by. In a
world where the rupee was on the point of becoming convertible in the
global market, this is little other than an emotional plank.

Even in the past, Goa's foreign exchange was earned by Goa, it needs to be
noted that this was not earned by "Goa" as such, but by private
individuals (mineowners or whoever) who also saw their interest in
exchanging their overvalued dollars for rupees back home.

Your view of Indian "investment" in India is also probably indicative of a
lack of clear appreciation of the issues involved. In the Union Territory
days, Goa's administration was -- in theory at least -- overseen by New
Delhi. Hence the obligation to build some infrastructure here. But,
post-statehood, the Centrally-originating component in the Goa budget is
just a small fraction. What comes in by way of loans cannot be counted, as
this has to be repaid one day.

The only "loot" that one can talk of is what individual political satraps
or their party machinery extracts from their local lieutenants, as the
tributes to keep the latter in the seat of power.

But this is not the enormous problem made out to be above. While the
belief that "Delhi is squeezing Goa" might give us the (incorrect)
gratification of victim status, it's hardly as black-and-white as
made out to be. You'll need to get an economist's view on this, as even if
it is repeated a hundred times, unless it has some link with reality, it's
not going to convince many. FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!
Colaco

What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or capitalist economy.

What exactly do you see as the drain of resources? Fish resources, iron
ore are the local produce exiting the state. But these are sold by private
individuals (in Goa) to private individuals outside. The industrial
sector, which depends on large external inputs of raw material and labour,
is not such a black-and-white case.

The Goa-is-earning-foreign-exchange-for-India argument might have made a
little sense in the days when foreign exchange was hard to come by. In a
world where the rupee was on the point of becoming convertible in the
global market, this is little other than an emotional plank.

Even in the past, Goa's foreign exchange was earned by Goa, it needs to be
noted that this was not earned by "Goa" as such, but by private
individuals (mineowners or whoever) who also saw their interest in
exchanging their overvalued dollars for rupees back home.

Your view of Indian "investment" in India is also probably indicative of a
lack of clear appreciation of the issues involved. In the Union Territory
days, Goa's administration was -- in theory at least -- overseen by New
Delhi. Hence the obligation to build some infrastructure here. But,
post-statehood, the Centrally-originating component in the Goa budget is
just a small fraction. What comes in by way of loans cannot be counted, as
this has to be repaid one day.

The only "loot" that one can talk of is what individual political satraps
or their party machinery extracts from their local lieutenants, as the
tributes to keep the latter in the seat of power.

But this is not the enormous problem made out to be above. While the
belief that "Delhi is squeezing Goa" might give us the (incorrect)
gratification of victim status, it's hardly as black-and-white as
made out to be. You'll need to get an economist's view on this, as even if
it is repeated a hundred times, unless it has some link with reality, it's
not going to convince many. FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!
Colaco

What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or capitalist economy.

What exactly do you see as the drain of resources? Fish resources, iron
ore are the local produce exiting the state. But these are sold by private
individuals (in Goa) to private individuals outside. The industrial
sector, which depends on large external inputs of raw material and labour,
is not such a black-and-white case.

The Goa-is-earning-foreign-exchange-for-India argument might have made a
little sense in the days when foreign exchange was hard to come by. In a
world where the rupee was on the point of becoming convertible in the
global market, this is little other than an emotional plank.

Even in the past, Goa's foreign exchange was earned by Goa, it needs to be
noted that this was not earned by "Goa" as such, but by private
individuals (mineowners or whoever) who also saw their interest in
exchanging their overvalued dollars for rupees back home.

Your view of Indian "investment" in India is also probably indicative of a
lack of clear appreciation of the issues involved. In the Union Territory
days, Goa's administration was -- in theory at least -- overseen by New
Delhi. Hence the obligation to build some infrastructure here. But,
post-statehood, the Centrally-originating component in the Goa budget is
just a small fraction. What comes in by way of loans cannot be counted, as
this has to be repaid one day.

The only "loot" that one can talk of is what individual political satraps
or their party machinery extracts from their local lieutenants, as the
tributes to keep the latter in the seat of power.

But this is not the enormous problem made out to be above. While the
belief that "Delhi is squeezing Goa" might give us the (incorrect)
gratification of victim status, it's hardly as black-and-white as
made out to be. You'll need to get an economist's view on this, as even if
it is repeated a hundred times, unless it has some link with reality, it's
not going to convince many. FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!
Colaco

What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or capitalist economy.

What exactly do you see as the drain of resources? Fish resources, iron
ore are the local produce exiting the state. But these are sold by private
individuals (in Goa) to private individuals outside. The industrial
sector, which depends on large external inputs of raw material and labour,
is not such a black-and-white case.

The Goa-is-earning-foreign-exchange-for-India argument might have made a
little sense in the days when foreign exchange was hard to come by. In a
world where the rupee was on the point of becoming convertible in the
global market, this is little other than an emotional plank.

Even in the past, Goa's foreign exchange was earned by Goa, it needs to be
noted that this was not earned by "Goa" as such, but by private
individuals (mineowners or whoever) who also saw their interest in
exchanging their overvalued dollars for rupees back home.

Your view of Indian "investment" in India is also probably indicative of a
lack of clear appreciation of the issues involved. In the Union Territory
days, Goa's administration was -- in theory at least -- overseen by New
Delhi. Hence the obligation to build some infrastructure here. But,
post-statehood, the Centrally-originating component in the Goa budget is
just a small fraction. What comes in by way of loans cannot be counted, as
this has to be repaid one day.

The only "loot" that one can talk of is what individual political satraps
or their party machinery extracts from their local lieutenants, as the
tributes to keep the latter in the seat of power.

But this is not the enormous problem made out to be above. While the
belief that "Delhi is squeezing Goa" might give us the (incorrect)
gratification of victim status, it's hardly as black-and-white as
made out to be. You'll need to get an economist's view on this, as even if
it is repeated a hundred times, unless it has some link with reality, it's
not going to convince many. FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!
Colaco

What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or capitalist economy.

What exactly do you see as the drain of resources? Fish resources, iron
ore are the local produce exiting the state. But these are sold by private
individuals (in Goa) to private individuals outside. The industrial
sector, which depends on large external inputs of raw material and labour,
is not such a black-and-white case.

The Goa-is-earning-foreign-exchange-for-India argument might have made a
little sense in the days when foreign exchange was hard to come by. In a
world where the rupee was on the point of becoming convertible in the
global market, this is little other than an emotional plank.

Even in the past, Goa's foreign exchange was earned by Goa, it needs to be
noted that this was not earned by "Goa" as such, but by private
individuals (mineowners or whoever) who also saw their interest in
exchanging their overvalued dollars for rupees back home.

Your view of Indian "investment" in India is also probably indicative of a
lack of clear appreciation of the issues involved. In the Union Territory
days, Goa's administration was -- in theory at least -- overseen by New
Delhi. Hence the obligation to build some infrastructure here. But,
post-statehood, the Centrally-originating component in the Goa budget is
just a small fraction. What comes in by way of loans cannot be counted, as
this has to be repaid one day.

The only "loot" that one can talk of is what individual political satraps
or their party machinery extracts from their local lieutenants, as the
tributes to keep the latter in the seat of power.

But this is not the enormous problem made out to be above. While the
belief that "Delhi is squeezing Goa" might give us the (incorrect)
gratification of victim status, it's hardly as black-and-white as
made out to be. You'll need to get an economist's view on this, as even if
it is repeated a hundred times, unless it has some link with reality, it's
not going to convince many. FN

[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.

Best regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of
wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or
capitalist economy.

__________________________________________________
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[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Noronha,
I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.
Best regards
Colaco

Could you please explain how foreign exchange earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

Is your contention that the rupee-dollar rate is unfairly fixed?

If that we so, the boot would be on the other foot.

There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.

Incidentally, the mine-owners (whom the foreign exchange belonged to... it
was not "Goa's" since it is controlled by private hands) or even
retired Africanders earning their pensions in sterling seem quite
content with the frequent devaluations of the rupee against the rupee.
This means they garner more (in rupee terms) for exporting the same tonne
of ore, or against the same pension.

FN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick Noronha (FN) | http://www.fredericknoronha.net
Freelance Journalist | http://www.bytesforall.org
http://goalinks.pitas.com | http://joingoanet.shorturl.com
http://linuxinindia.pitas.com | http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
T: 0091.832.2409490 or 2409783 M: 0 9822 122436
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Noronha,
I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.
Best regards
Colaco

Could you please explain how foreign exchange earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

Is your contention that the rupee-dollar rate is unfairly fixed?

If that we so, the boot would be on the other foot.

There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.

Incidentally, the mine-owners (whom the foreign exchange belonged to... it
was not "Goa's" since it is controlled by private hands) or even
retired Africanders earning their pensions in sterling seem quite
content with the frequent devaluations of the rupee against the rupee.
This means they garner more (in rupee terms) for exporting the same tonne
of ore, or against the same pension.

FN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick Noronha (FN) | http://www.fredericknoronha.net
Freelance Journalist | http://www.bytesforall.org
http://goalinks.pitas.com | http://joingoanet.shorturl.com
http://linuxinindia.pitas.com | http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
T: 0091.832.2409490 or 2409783 M: 0 9822 122436
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Noronha,
I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.
Best regards
Colaco

Could you please explain how foreign exchange earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

Is your contention that the rupee-dollar rate is unfairly fixed?

If that we so, the boot would be on the other foot.

There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.

Incidentally, the mine-owners (whom the foreign exchange belonged to... it
was not "Goa's" since it is controlled by private hands) or even
retired Africanders earning their pensions in sterling seem quite
content with the frequent devaluations of the rupee against the rupee.
This means they garner more (in rupee terms) for exporting the same tonne
of ore, or against the same pension.

FN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick Noronha (FN) | http://www.fredericknoronha.net
Freelance Journalist | http://www.bytesforall.org
http://goalinks.pitas.com | http://joingoanet.shorturl.com
http://linuxinindia.pitas.com | http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
T: 0091.832.2409490 or 2409783 M: 0 9822 122436
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Noronha,
I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.
Best regards
Colaco

Could you please explain how foreign exchange earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

Is your contention that the rupee-dollar rate is unfairly fixed?

If that we so, the boot would be on the other foot.

There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.

Incidentally, the mine-owners (whom the foreign exchange belonged to... it
was not "Goa's" since it is controlled by private hands) or even
retired Africanders earning their pensions in sterling seem quite
content with the frequent devaluations of the rupee against the rupee.
This means they garner more (in rupee terms) for exporting the same tonne
of ore, or against the same pension.

FN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick Noronha (FN) | http://www.fredericknoronha.net
Freelance Journalist | http://www.bytesforall.org
http://goalinks.pitas.com | http://joingoanet.shorturl.com
http://linuxinindia.pitas.com | http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
T: 0091.832.2409490 or 2409783 M: 0 9822 122436
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Noronha,
I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.
Best regards
Colaco

Could you please explain how foreign exchange earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

Is your contention that the rupee-dollar rate is unfairly fixed?

If that we so, the boot would be on the other foot.

There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.

Incidentally, the mine-owners (whom the foreign exchange belonged to... it
was not "Goa's" since it is controlled by private hands) or even
retired Africanders earning their pensions in sterling seem quite
content with the frequent devaluations of the rupee against the rupee.
This means they garner more (in rupee terms) for exporting the same tonne
of ore, or against the same pension.

FN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick Noronha (FN) | http://www.fredericknoronha.net
Freelance Journalist | http://www.bytesforall.org
http://goalinks.pitas.com | http://joingoanet.shorturl.com
http://linuxinindia.pitas.com | http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
T: 0091.832.2409490 or 2409783 M: 0 9822 122436
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tim de Mello]

"Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org> said
There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.
==========

Very true. As soon as the rupee starts to increase in value as it is
currently doing, the better it will be for the average Goan. I know the
economic argument that it makes Indian exports more expensive, etc. Goans
living overseas who take their pleasure in Goa by visiting every few years
will be crying in their cheap Kingfisher beer (or very cheap feni) about how
few rupees they received at the currency exchange counter.

But as Greespan said regarding the continuing fall of the greenback . . . .
"You cannot build a strong economy on a weak currency"

The stronger the rupee, the better!

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

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[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

Thanks for your explanation on the currency issue, it
brings back fond memories of Sardessai's (SS
Dempo)theory of FE. But this is not what I am
interested to know. Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

Regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Could you please explain how foreign exchange
earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
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[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

I am yet to understand how Goa's earnings in foreign exchange amounts to
a "loot".

Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

I would entirely agree if one said that while a few earn mega-bucks from
mining or tourism, the average citizen (particularly villagers in interior
Goa, not so much middle-class persons like you and me) have paid a big
price.

It would also, for instance, be correct to say that a few big players (and
families) earned huge revenues from mining, after leases were given from
Portuguese rule onwards (sometimes for as little as Rs 300!) while the
environment of Goa took a battering.

(For a more elaborate discussion read Robert Newman's essay in 'Pacific
Affairs' titled 'Goa: The Transformation of an Indian Region' 1983 and
particularly the sections dealing with mining)

Remittances have shored up the Goan economy no doubt. But, on the other
hand, it has also led to inflation -- check out the real estate and the
fish-market. It's no coincidence that the consumer price index in Goa is
way above the Indian average. Of course, there are other factors involved
here, including tourism and people from outside the state finding Goa a
fashionable destination to reside in.

Can the average Goan working and earning in Goa afford a house of his or
her own, based on local earnings today?

Of course, these realities show that Goa, like any other society, is a
complex place with many differing complex realities. If the end goal is
simply to decide our position, and then build arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

I am yet to understand how Goa's earnings in foreign exchange amounts to
a "loot".

Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

I would entirely agree if one said that while a few earn mega-bucks from
mining or tourism, the average citizen (particularly villagers in interior
Goa, not so much middle-class persons like you and me) have paid a big
price.

It would also, for instance, be correct to say that a few big players (and
families) earned huge revenues from mining, after leases were given from
Portuguese rule onwards (sometimes for as little as Rs 300!) while the
environment of Goa took a battering.

(For a more elaborate discussion read Robert Newman's essay in 'Pacific
Affairs' titled 'Goa: The Transformation of an Indian Region' 1983 and
particularly the sections dealing with mining)

Remittances have shored up the Goan economy no doubt. But, on the other
hand, it has also led to inflation -- check out the real estate and the
fish-market. It's no coincidence that the consumer price index in Goa is
way above the Indian average. Of course, there are other factors involved
here, including tourism and people from outside the state finding Goa a
fashionable destination to reside in.

Can the average Goan working and earning in Goa afford a house of his or
her own, based on local earnings today?

Of course, these realities show that Goa, like any other society, is a
complex place with many differing complex realities. If the end goal is
simply to decide our position, and then build arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

I am yet to understand how Goa's earnings in foreign exchange amounts to
a "loot".

Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

I would entirely agree if one said that while a few earn mega-bucks from
mining or tourism, the average citizen (particularly villagers in interior
Goa, not so much middle-class persons like you and me) have paid a big
price.

It would also, for instance, be correct to say that a few big players (and
families) earned huge revenues from mining, after leases were given from
Portuguese rule onwards (sometimes for as little as Rs 300!) while the
environment of Goa took a battering.

(For a more elaborate discussion read Robert Newman's essay in 'Pacific
Affairs' titled 'Goa: The Transformation of an Indian Region' 1983 and
particularly the sections dealing with mining)

Remittances have shored up the Goan economy no doubt. But, on the other
hand, it has also led to inflation -- check out the real estate and the
fish-market. It's no coincidence that the consumer price index in Goa is
way above the Indian average. Of course, there are other factors involved
here, including tourism and people from outside the state finding Goa a
fashionable destination to reside in.

Can the average Goan working and earning in Goa afford a house of his or
her own, based on local earnings today?

Of course, these realities show that Goa, like any other society, is a
complex place with many differing complex realities. If the end goal is
simply to decide our position, and then build arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

I am yet to understand how Goa's earnings in foreign exchange amounts to
a "loot".

Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

I would entirely agree if one said that while a few earn mega-bucks from
mining or tourism, the average citizen (particularly villagers in interior
Goa, not so much middle-class persons like you and me) have paid a big
price.

It would also, for instance, be correct to say that a few big players (and
families) earned huge revenues from mining, after leases were given from
Portuguese rule onwards (sometimes for as little as Rs 300!) while the
environment of Goa took a battering.

(For a more elaborate discussion read Robert Newman's essay in 'Pacific
Affairs' titled 'Goa: The Transformation of an Indian Region' 1983 and
particularly the sections dealing with mining)

Remittances have shored up the Goan economy no doubt. But, on the other
hand, it has also led to inflation -- check out the real estate and the
fish-market. It's no coincidence that the consumer price index in Goa is
way above the Indian average. Of course, there are other factors involved
here, including tourism and people from outside the state finding Goa a
fashionable destination to reside in.

Can the average Goan working and earning in Goa afford a house of his or
her own, based on local earnings today?

Of course, these realities show that Goa, like any other society, is a
complex place with many differing complex realities. If the end goal is
simply to decide our position, and then build arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

I am yet to understand how Goa's earnings in foreign exchange amounts to
a "loot".

Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

I would entirely agree if one said that while a few earn mega-bucks from
mining or tourism, the average citizen (particularly villagers in interior
Goa, not so much middle-class persons like you and me) have paid a big
price.

It would also, for instance, be correct to say that a few big players (and
families) earned huge revenues from mining, after leases were given from
Portuguese rule onwards (sometimes for as little as Rs 300!) while the
environment of Goa took a battering.

(For a more elaborate discussion read Robert Newman's essay in 'Pacific
Affairs' titled 'Goa: The Transformation of an Indian Region' 1983 and
particularly the sections dealing with mining)

Remittances have shored up the Goan economy no doubt. But, on the other
hand, it has also led to inflation -- check out the real estate and the
fish-market. It's no coincidence that the consumer price index in Goa is
way above the Indian average. Of course, there are other factors involved
here, including tourism and people from outside the state finding Goa a
fashionable destination to reside in.

Can the average Goan working and earning in Goa afford a house of his or
her own, based on local earnings today?

Of course, these realities show that Goa, like any other society, is a
complex place with many differing complex realities. If the end goal is
simply to decide our position, and then build arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN

[Tim de Mello]

From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>

" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
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[Bernado Colaco]

Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa
and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

__________________________________________________
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[Tariq Siddiqui]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Why don't you tell us? I don't trust Fred since he is a puppet of the
tyrannical Indian occupation forces.

It should be fairly easy for you to point out, since no other Indian state
exports minerals or anything else for that matter, and no other Indian
sends money back to India.

--
Tariq Siddiqui
tariq at bayou.uh.edu
*******************************************************************************
Rockets Lover!
Laker Hater !!!
*******************************************************************************

[Tariq Siddiqui]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Why don't you tell us? I don't trust Fred since he is a puppet of the
tyrannical Indian occupation forces.

It should be fairly easy for you to point out, since no other Indian state
exports minerals or anything else for that matter, and no other Indian
sends money back to India.

--
Tariq Siddiqui
tariq at bayou.uh.edu
*******************************************************************************
Rockets Lover!
Laker Hater !!!
*******************************************************************************

[Tariq Siddiqui]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Why don't you tell us? I don't trust Fred since he is a puppet of the
tyrannical Indian occupation forces.

It should be fairly easy for you to point out, since no other Indian state
exports minerals or anything else for that matter, and no other Indian
sends money back to India.

--
Tariq Siddiqui
tariq at bayou.uh.edu
*******************************************************************************
Rockets Lover!
Laker Hater !!!
*******************************************************************************

[Tariq Siddiqui]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Why don't you tell us? I don't trust Fred since he is a puppet of the
tyrannical Indian occupation forces.

It should be fairly easy for you to point out, since no other Indian state
exports minerals or anything else for that matter, and no other Indian
sends money back to India.

--
Tariq Siddiqui
tariq at bayou.uh.edu
*******************************************************************************
Rockets Lover!
Laker Hater !!!
*******************************************************************************

[Tariq Siddiqui]

Post by Bernado Colaco
Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Why don't you tell us? I don't trust Fred since he is a puppet of the
tyrannical Indian occupation forces.

It should be fairly easy for you to point out, since no other Indian state
exports minerals or anything else for that matter, and no other Indian
sends money back to India.

--
Tariq Siddiqui
tariq at bayou.uh.edu
*******************************************************************************
Rockets Lover!
Laker Hater !!!
*******************************************************************************

[Paddydes]

In a message dated 06/08/2003 9:27:32 PM EST, timdemello2 at hotmail.com writes:

<< >From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>
" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for
ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum. >>

Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?

The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.

VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!

Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Bernado Colaco]

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:20:47 EDT, "Dom Martin <Dommartin9 at aol.com>" wrote:

I am sorry, I missed the whole scoop relating to "the goose that lays golden
eggs." But Pat's post (copied below) resonates a similar angst expressed by
Lira Fernandes, Lawrie D'Souza and Janette D'Souza in July of 2001. I am
resubmitting my response to their collective post which I feel, is as pertinent
today on that matter as it was almost two years ago:

For the first time in the realm of global dialogue, the Internet has liberated
expression of thought from the constricting domain of editors and newspapers and
invested it directly in the minds of all capable individuals.

Such power is not to be abused.

Secondly, it is not for the Goa Admin. Team to edit or suppress another's mind
or motive, so long as the contributed material does not infringe upon any
applicable laws. This task ? as Lira put it ? ought to be the burden and
conscious responsibility of the user.

Thirdly, like all good intentions, ideas on Goanet innocuously evolve into
issues, get bogged down into cross-issues, and then rapidly degenerate into
ego-rattling. If everyone graciously allowed valid ideas to become enlightened,
mindfully stick to the issues and stage ego-rattling in their own backyard, the
forum will revert back to what it was primarily intended to be: A Hospitable
Balcao!

Dom Martin


In a message dated 6/9/2003 1:04:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, Paddydes at aol.com,

Post by Paddydes
Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?
The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or
suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.
VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!
Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Agnelo Mascarenhas]

Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?

Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term 'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.

As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?

A Goan, A 'Bharati'

Agnelo

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:14:47 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bernado=20Colaco?=
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet] June 10 Day of Camoes and Communities
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.



---------------------------------
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[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans
are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet?
Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their
legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term
'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us
Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.
As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when
quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in
post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

Agnelo, You're failing to get the point.

Me thinks the idea behind such repeated posts (from a handful of persons,
often using pseudonyms... but that hardly fools anybody) is to
continuously derail debate on Goanet, by getting us all involved in
emotive issues that rake up strong words and ugly feelings.

Have you noticed how some people build identities for themselves only to
trumpet a particular point of view? Most of the time it's the
Goa-is-enslaved, wasn't-Portuguese-rule-better and oh-I-loved-colonialism
perspectives, though some of the latter are not argued very upfront.

FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans
are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet?
Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their
legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term
'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us
Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.
As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when
quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in
post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

Agnelo, You're failing to get the point.

Me thinks the idea behind such repeated posts (from a handful of persons,
often using pseudonyms... but that hardly fools anybody) is to
continuously derail debate on Goanet, by getting us all involved in
emotive issues that rake up strong words and ugly feelings.

Have you noticed how some people build identities for themselves only to
trumpet a particular point of view? Most of the time it's the
Goa-is-enslaved, wasn't-Portuguese-rule-better and oh-I-loved-colonialism
perspectives, though some of the latter are not argued very upfront.

FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans
are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet?
Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their
legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term
'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us
Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.
As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when
quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in
post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

Agnelo, You're failing to get the point.

Me thinks the idea behind such repeated posts (from a handful of persons,
often using pseudonyms... but that hardly fools anybody) is to
continuously derail debate on Goanet, by getting us all involved in
emotive issues that rake up strong words and ugly feelings.

Have you noticed how some people build identities for themselves only to
trumpet a particular point of view? Most of the time it's the
Goa-is-enslaved, wasn't-Portuguese-rule-better and oh-I-loved-colonialism
perspectives, though some of the latter are not argued very upfront.

FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans
are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet?
Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their
legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term
'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us
Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.
As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when
quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in
post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

Agnelo, You're failing to get the point.

Me thinks the idea behind such repeated posts (from a handful of persons,
often using pseudonyms... but that hardly fools anybody) is to
continuously derail debate on Goanet, by getting us all involved in
emotive issues that rake up strong words and ugly feelings.

Have you noticed how some people build identities for themselves only to
trumpet a particular point of view? Most of the time it's the
Goa-is-enslaved, wasn't-Portuguese-rule-better and oh-I-loved-colonialism
perspectives, though some of the latter are not argued very upfront.

FN

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans
are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet?
Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their
legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term
'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us
Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.
As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when
quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in
post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

Agnelo, You're failing to get the point.

Me thinks the idea behind such repeated posts (from a handful of persons,
often using pseudonyms... but that hardly fools anybody) is to
continuously derail debate on Goanet, by getting us all involved in
emotive issues that rake up strong words and ugly feelings.

Have you noticed how some people build identities for themselves only to
trumpet a particular point of view? Most of the time it's the
Goa-is-enslaved, wasn't-Portuguese-rule-better and oh-I-loved-colonialism
perspectives, though some of the latter are not argued very upfront.

FN

[Bernado Colaco]

Dear Mr. Agnelo,

What a lovely Portuguese name! It is distressing to
read (your words A summary, trial and execution) the
propagation of mob culture under the present bharati
rule among Goans.

Mohandas K. Gandhi a world humanist and pacifist was
killed under near similar circumstances by fake pride
nationalists, who today are present in the US
collecting money for fake pride nationalism.

It is more shameful to read a left wing journalist
condoning the act of terrorism on a world literary
figure.

I just wonder what relevance does anglofilia have on
Goanet?


--- Agnelo Mascarenhas <agnelomas at yahoo.com> wrote: >

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh
your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the
relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

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[Tim de Mello]

Dear Mr. Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>,

I do not know who you are but it would appear that you are deliberately
trying to get Goa-Netters into a confrontational state with your posts.
Thank God they know better!

If I felt that your posts had merit I would have tried to engage you in some
sort of discussion but to sink to your level would mean that I would be
wasting not only your and my time but also precious bandwidth.

The Goa-Netters reading your posts know full well from which solitude you
come from - and it must be pretty lonely out there.

I wonder if you really are who you are. Do any other Goa-Netters from the
U.K. know you? If so I would like to hear from them. If you are using a
psuedonym then I suggest you spend your time in a better way than posting
ridiculous e-mails to this forum.

We will all benefit from this.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

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[Eddie]

Loutulim Journal - NYT posted by eddie Fernande's on June 03.

This article has caught the attention worldwide as it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by James Brooke - NYT

Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

[Bernado Colaco]

Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?

Colaco

Post by Eddie
This article has caught the attention worldwide as
it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi
Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that
lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by
James Brooke - NYT
Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

##########################################################################

Post by Eddie
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #

##########################################################################

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[Tim de Mello]

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?
Colaco

What is this type of negative post supposed to achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said (many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far more into Goa than it
takes.

This is evident today when one sees the continuing strengthening of Goa's
infrastructure from roads, rail, telecommunications, power and yes, even
water.

I do not understand the "doom and gloom" scenario of a projected "Will the
hitlerites destroy the
churches?" Does the writer have some inside scoop on the thinking and
implementation plans of the RSS or is this conjecture on his part. If it is
the former, please give us the benefit of it. If it is the latter then these
thoughts are best left in the writer's mind.

And let us not just extrapolate from the Ayodhya issue to justify the
argument - as it would be just hype, baseless and meaningless.

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
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[Bernado Colaco]

Mello,

The NYT article was like opening a can of worms. The
BJP are ready to bend their ideals to continue the
loot of Goa. I remember a couple of years ago when
Parrikar came to power, he went all numb at the
presence of Fundacao Oriente in Goa. He pleaded that
FO should donate to his government rather than
renovate or rebuild churches.

I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!

Regards

Colaco

Post by Tim de Mello
What is this type of negative post supposed to
achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said
(many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far
more into Goa than it
takes.

__________________________________________________
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http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.

Best regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of
wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or
capitalist economy.

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[Tim de Mello]

"Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org> said
There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.
==========

Very true. As soon as the rupee starts to increase in value as it is
currently doing, the better it will be for the average Goan. I know the
economic argument that it makes Indian exports more expensive, etc. Goans
living overseas who take their pleasure in Goa by visiting every few years
will be crying in their cheap Kingfisher beer (or very cheap feni) about how
few rupees they received at the currency exchange counter.

But as Greespan said regarding the continuing fall of the greenback . . . .
"You cannot build a strong economy on a weak currency"

The stronger the rupee, the better!

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

Thanks for your explanation on the currency issue, it
brings back fond memories of Sardessai's (SS
Dempo)theory of FE. But this is not what I am
interested to know. Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

Regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Could you please explain how foreign exchange
earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>

" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa
and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Paddydes]

In a message dated 06/08/2003 9:27:32 PM EST, timdemello2 at hotmail.com writes:

<< >From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>
" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for
ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum. >>

Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?

The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.

VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!

Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Bernado Colaco]

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:20:47 EDT, "Dom Martin <Dommartin9 at aol.com>" wrote:

I am sorry, I missed the whole scoop relating to "the goose that lays golden
eggs." But Pat's post (copied below) resonates a similar angst expressed by
Lira Fernandes, Lawrie D'Souza and Janette D'Souza in July of 2001. I am
resubmitting my response to their collective post which I feel, is as pertinent
today on that matter as it was almost two years ago:

For the first time in the realm of global dialogue, the Internet has liberated
expression of thought from the constricting domain of editors and newspapers and
invested it directly in the minds of all capable individuals.

Such power is not to be abused.

Secondly, it is not for the Goa Admin. Team to edit or suppress another's mind
or motive, so long as the contributed material does not infringe upon any
applicable laws. This task ? as Lira put it ? ought to be the burden and
conscious responsibility of the user.

Thirdly, like all good intentions, ideas on Goanet innocuously evolve into
issues, get bogged down into cross-issues, and then rapidly degenerate into
ego-rattling. If everyone graciously allowed valid ideas to become enlightened,
mindfully stick to the issues and stage ego-rattling in their own backyard, the
forum will revert back to what it was primarily intended to be: A Hospitable
Balcao!

Dom Martin


In a message dated 6/9/2003 1:04:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, Paddydes at aol.com,

Post by Paddydes
Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?
The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or
suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.
VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!
Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Agnelo Mascarenhas]

Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?

Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term 'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.

As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?

A Goan, A 'Bharati'

Agnelo

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:14:47 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bernado=20Colaco?=
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet] June 10 Day of Camoes and Communities
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/attachments/20030610/ea3cac07/attachment-0001.htm>

[Bernado Colaco]

Dear Mr. Agnelo,

What a lovely Portuguese name! It is distressing to
read (your words A summary, trial and execution) the
propagation of mob culture under the present bharati
rule among Goans.

Mohandas K. Gandhi a world humanist and pacifist was
killed under near similar circumstances by fake pride
nationalists, who today are present in the US
collecting money for fake pride nationalism.

It is more shameful to read a left wing journalist
condoning the act of terrorism on a world literary
figure.

I just wonder what relevance does anglofilia have on
Goanet?


--- Agnelo Mascarenhas <agnelomas at yahoo.com> wrote: >

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh
your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the
relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

Dear Mr. Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>,

I do not know who you are but it would appear that you are deliberately
trying to get Goa-Netters into a confrontational state with your posts.
Thank God they know better!

If I felt that your posts had merit I would have tried to engage you in some
sort of discussion but to sink to your level would mean that I would be
wasting not only your and my time but also precious bandwidth.

The Goa-Netters reading your posts know full well from which solitude you
come from - and it must be pretty lonely out there.

I wonder if you really are who you are. Do any other Goa-Netters from the
U.K. know you? If so I would like to hear from them. If you are using a
psuedonym then I suggest you spend your time in a better way than posting
ridiculous e-mails to this forum.

We will all benefit from this.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

[Eddie]

Loutulim Journal - NYT posted by eddie Fernande's on June 03.

This article has caught the attention worldwide as it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by James Brooke - NYT

Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

[Bernado Colaco]

Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?

Colaco

Post by Eddie
This article has caught the attention worldwide as
it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi
Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that
lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by
James Brooke - NYT
Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

##########################################################################

Post by Eddie
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #

##########################################################################

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?
Colaco

What is this type of negative post supposed to achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said (many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far more into Goa than it
takes.

This is evident today when one sees the continuing strengthening of Goa's
infrastructure from roads, rail, telecommunications, power and yes, even
water.

I do not understand the "doom and gloom" scenario of a projected "Will the
hitlerites destroy the
churches?" Does the writer have some inside scoop on the thinking and
implementation plans of the RSS or is this conjecture on his part. If it is
the former, please give us the benefit of it. If it is the latter then these
thoughts are best left in the writer's mind.

And let us not just extrapolate from the Ayodhya issue to justify the
argument - as it would be just hype, baseless and meaningless.

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Mello,

The NYT article was like opening a can of worms. The
BJP are ready to bend their ideals to continue the
loot of Goa. I remember a couple of years ago when
Parrikar came to power, he went all numb at the
presence of Fundacao Oriente in Goa. He pleaded that
FO should donate to his government rather than
renovate or rebuild churches.

I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!

Regards

Colaco

Post by Tim de Mello
What is this type of negative post supposed to
achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said
(many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far
more into Goa than it
takes.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.

Best regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of
wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or
capitalist economy.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

"Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org> said
There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.
==========

Very true. As soon as the rupee starts to increase in value as it is
currently doing, the better it will be for the average Goan. I know the
economic argument that it makes Indian exports more expensive, etc. Goans
living overseas who take their pleasure in Goa by visiting every few years
will be crying in their cheap Kingfisher beer (or very cheap feni) about how
few rupees they received at the currency exchange counter.

But as Greespan said regarding the continuing fall of the greenback . . . .
"You cannot build a strong economy on a weak currency"

The stronger the rupee, the better!

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

Thanks for your explanation on the currency issue, it
brings back fond memories of Sardessai's (SS
Dempo)theory of FE. But this is not what I am
interested to know. Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

Regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Could you please explain how foreign exchange
earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>

" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa
and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Paddydes]

In a message dated 06/08/2003 9:27:32 PM EST, timdemello2 at hotmail.com writes:

<< >From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>
" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for
ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum. >>

Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?

The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.

VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!

Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Bernado Colaco]

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:20:47 EDT, "Dom Martin <Dommartin9 at aol.com>" wrote:

I am sorry, I missed the whole scoop relating to "the goose that lays golden
eggs." But Pat's post (copied below) resonates a similar angst expressed by
Lira Fernandes, Lawrie D'Souza and Janette D'Souza in July of 2001. I am
resubmitting my response to their collective post which I feel, is as pertinent
today on that matter as it was almost two years ago:

For the first time in the realm of global dialogue, the Internet has liberated
expression of thought from the constricting domain of editors and newspapers and
invested it directly in the minds of all capable individuals.

Such power is not to be abused.

Secondly, it is not for the Goa Admin. Team to edit or suppress another's mind
or motive, so long as the contributed material does not infringe upon any
applicable laws. This task ? as Lira put it ? ought to be the burden and
conscious responsibility of the user.

Thirdly, like all good intentions, ideas on Goanet innocuously evolve into
issues, get bogged down into cross-issues, and then rapidly degenerate into
ego-rattling. If everyone graciously allowed valid ideas to become enlightened,
mindfully stick to the issues and stage ego-rattling in their own backyard, the
forum will revert back to what it was primarily intended to be: A Hospitable
Balcao!

Dom Martin


In a message dated 6/9/2003 1:04:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, Paddydes at aol.com,

Post by Paddydes
Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?
The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or
suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.
VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!
Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Agnelo Mascarenhas]

Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?

Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term 'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.

As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?

A Goan, A 'Bharati'

Agnelo

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:14:47 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bernado=20Colaco?=
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet] June 10 Day of Camoes and Communities
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/attachments/20030610/ea3cac07/attachment-0002.htm>

[Bernado Colaco]

Dear Mr. Agnelo,

What a lovely Portuguese name! It is distressing to
read (your words A summary, trial and execution) the
propagation of mob culture under the present bharati
rule among Goans.

Mohandas K. Gandhi a world humanist and pacifist was
killed under near similar circumstances by fake pride
nationalists, who today are present in the US
collecting money for fake pride nationalism.

It is more shameful to read a left wing journalist
condoning the act of terrorism on a world literary
figure.

I just wonder what relevance does anglofilia have on
Goanet?


--- Agnelo Mascarenhas <agnelomas at yahoo.com> wrote: >

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh
your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the
relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

Dear Mr. Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>,

I do not know who you are but it would appear that you are deliberately
trying to get Goa-Netters into a confrontational state with your posts.
Thank God they know better!

If I felt that your posts had merit I would have tried to engage you in some
sort of discussion but to sink to your level would mean that I would be
wasting not only your and my time but also precious bandwidth.

The Goa-Netters reading your posts know full well from which solitude you
come from - and it must be pretty lonely out there.

I wonder if you really are who you are. Do any other Goa-Netters from the
U.K. know you? If so I would like to hear from them. If you are using a
psuedonym then I suggest you spend your time in a better way than posting
ridiculous e-mails to this forum.

We will all benefit from this.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

[Eddie]

Loutulim Journal - NYT posted by eddie Fernande's on June 03.

This article has caught the attention worldwide as it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by James Brooke - NYT

Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

[Bernado Colaco]

Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?

Colaco

Post by Eddie
This article has caught the attention worldwide as
it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi
Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that
lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by
James Brooke - NYT
Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

##########################################################################

Post by Eddie
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #

##########################################################################

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?
Colaco

What is this type of negative post supposed to achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said (many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far more into Goa than it
takes.

This is evident today when one sees the continuing strengthening of Goa's
infrastructure from roads, rail, telecommunications, power and yes, even
water.

I do not understand the "doom and gloom" scenario of a projected "Will the
hitlerites destroy the
churches?" Does the writer have some inside scoop on the thinking and
implementation plans of the RSS or is this conjecture on his part. If it is
the former, please give us the benefit of it. If it is the latter then these
thoughts are best left in the writer's mind.

And let us not just extrapolate from the Ayodhya issue to justify the
argument - as it would be just hype, baseless and meaningless.

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Mello,

The NYT article was like opening a can of worms. The
BJP are ready to bend their ideals to continue the
loot of Goa. I remember a couple of years ago when
Parrikar came to power, he went all numb at the
presence of Fundacao Oriente in Goa. He pleaded that
FO should donate to his government rather than
renovate or rebuild churches.

I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!

Regards

Colaco

Post by Tim de Mello
What is this type of negative post supposed to
achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said
(many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far
more into Goa than it
takes.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
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[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.

Best regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of
wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or
capitalist economy.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

"Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org> said
There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.
==========

Very true. As soon as the rupee starts to increase in value as it is
currently doing, the better it will be for the average Goan. I know the
economic argument that it makes Indian exports more expensive, etc. Goans
living overseas who take their pleasure in Goa by visiting every few years
will be crying in their cheap Kingfisher beer (or very cheap feni) about how
few rupees they received at the currency exchange counter.

But as Greespan said regarding the continuing fall of the greenback . . . .
"You cannot build a strong economy on a weak currency"

The stronger the rupee, the better!

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

Thanks for your explanation on the currency issue, it
brings back fond memories of Sardessai's (SS
Dempo)theory of FE. But this is not what I am
interested to know. Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

Regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Could you please explain how foreign exchange
earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>

" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa
and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Paddydes]

In a message dated 06/08/2003 9:27:32 PM EST, timdemello2 at hotmail.com writes:

<< >From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>
" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for
ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum. >>

Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?

The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.

VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!

Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Bernado Colaco]

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:20:47 EDT, "Dom Martin <Dommartin9 at aol.com>" wrote:

I am sorry, I missed the whole scoop relating to "the goose that lays golden
eggs." But Pat's post (copied below) resonates a similar angst expressed by
Lira Fernandes, Lawrie D'Souza and Janette D'Souza in July of 2001. I am
resubmitting my response to their collective post which I feel, is as pertinent
today on that matter as it was almost two years ago:

For the first time in the realm of global dialogue, the Internet has liberated
expression of thought from the constricting domain of editors and newspapers and
invested it directly in the minds of all capable individuals.

Such power is not to be abused.

Secondly, it is not for the Goa Admin. Team to edit or suppress another's mind
or motive, so long as the contributed material does not infringe upon any
applicable laws. This task ? as Lira put it ? ought to be the burden and
conscious responsibility of the user.

Thirdly, like all good intentions, ideas on Goanet innocuously evolve into
issues, get bogged down into cross-issues, and then rapidly degenerate into
ego-rattling. If everyone graciously allowed valid ideas to become enlightened,
mindfully stick to the issues and stage ego-rattling in their own backyard, the
forum will revert back to what it was primarily intended to be: A Hospitable
Balcao!

Dom Martin


In a message dated 6/9/2003 1:04:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, Paddydes at aol.com,

Post by Paddydes
Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?
The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or
suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.
VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!
Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Agnelo Mascarenhas]

Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?

Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term 'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.

As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?

A Goan, A 'Bharati'

Agnelo

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:14:47 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bernado=20Colaco?=
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet] June 10 Day of Camoes and Communities
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
-------------- next part --------------
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URL: <http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/attachments/20030610/ea3cac07/attachment-0003.htm>

[Bernado Colaco]

Dear Mr. Agnelo,

What a lovely Portuguese name! It is distressing to
read (your words A summary, trial and execution) the
propagation of mob culture under the present bharati
rule among Goans.

Mohandas K. Gandhi a world humanist and pacifist was
killed under near similar circumstances by fake pride
nationalists, who today are present in the US
collecting money for fake pride nationalism.

It is more shameful to read a left wing journalist
condoning the act of terrorism on a world literary
figure.

I just wonder what relevance does anglofilia have on
Goanet?


--- Agnelo Mascarenhas <agnelomas at yahoo.com> wrote: >

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh
your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the
relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

Dear Mr. Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>,

I do not know who you are but it would appear that you are deliberately
trying to get Goa-Netters into a confrontational state with your posts.
Thank God they know better!

If I felt that your posts had merit I would have tried to engage you in some
sort of discussion but to sink to your level would mean that I would be
wasting not only your and my time but also precious bandwidth.

The Goa-Netters reading your posts know full well from which solitude you
come from - and it must be pretty lonely out there.

I wonder if you really are who you are. Do any other Goa-Netters from the
U.K. know you? If so I would like to hear from them. If you are using a
psuedonym then I suggest you spend your time in a better way than posting
ridiculous e-mails to this forum.

We will all benefit from this.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

[Eddie]

Loutulim Journal - NYT posted by eddie Fernande's on June 03.

This article has caught the attention worldwide as it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by James Brooke - NYT

Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

[Bernado Colaco]

Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?

Colaco

Post by Eddie
This article has caught the attention worldwide as
it also appeared
in Saudi Gazette( English daily published in Saudi
Arabia and read mostly by
expats)
but with different title as "Goa as the goose that
lays the golden egg"
and subtitled "India Dusts off colonial past" by
James Brooke - NYT
Eddie Verdes
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

##########################################################################

Post by Eddie
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #

##########################################################################

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Goa provides the indian union with millions of USD in
terms of Foreign Exchange. What will happen when the
goose is in menopause? Will the hitlerites destroy the
churches?
Colaco

What is this type of negative post supposed to achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said (many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far more into Goa than it
takes.

This is evident today when one sees the continuing strengthening of Goa's
infrastructure from roads, rail, telecommunications, power and yes, even
water.

I do not understand the "doom and gloom" scenario of a projected "Will the
hitlerites destroy the
churches?" Does the writer have some inside scoop on the thinking and
implementation plans of the RSS or is this conjecture on his part. If it is
the former, please give us the benefit of it. If it is the latter then these
thoughts are best left in the writer's mind.

And let us not just extrapolate from the Ayodhya issue to justify the
argument - as it would be just hype, baseless and meaningless.

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Mello,

The NYT article was like opening a can of worms. The
BJP are ready to bend their ideals to continue the
loot of Goa. I remember a couple of years ago when
Parrikar came to power, he went all numb at the
presence of Fundacao Oriente in Goa. He pleaded that
FO should donate to his government rather than
renovate or rebuild churches.

I would be only to glad to read your figures of indian
investment in Goa as opposed to the loot!

Regards

Colaco

Post by Tim de Mello
What is this type of negative post supposed to
achieve?
I am no expert in the matter but it has been said
(many times) on this forum
that the Union govt. has and continues to pump far
more into Goa than it
takes.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

I am talking about the FE which Goa has been giving to
the Indian Union since 1961. It is not only iron ore
but tourism and the remittance industry that has
helped bharat to build its FE resources. If you have
doubts please confer with Dr. N. Kamat of Goa
University, before pasting La Blair type journalism
here on Goanet.

Best regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
What would you term as "loot"? The transfer of
wealth and resources
happens at a private level like in any market or
capitalist economy.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

"Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org> said
There is a case to be made out that, going by purchasing power parity,
the rupee is grossly undervalued (not overvalued) as against currencies
like the dollar, yen, euro.

Take a dollar in the US, see what you can buy with it... then take fifty
rupees in India, and go to the market for a reality check.
==========

Very true. As soon as the rupee starts to increase in value as it is
currently doing, the better it will be for the average Goan. I know the
economic argument that it makes Indian exports more expensive, etc. Goans
living overseas who take their pleasure in Goa by visiting every few years
will be crying in their cheap Kingfisher beer (or very cheap feni) about how
few rupees they received at the currency exchange counter.

But as Greespan said regarding the continuing fall of the greenback . . . .
"You cannot build a strong economy on a weak currency"

The stronger the rupee, the better!

And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Noronha,

Thanks for your explanation on the currency issue, it
brings back fond memories of Sardessai's (SS
Dempo)theory of FE. But this is not what I am
interested to know. Please visit RBI office near the
Kadamba bus stand and ask them how much FE was
obtained from Goa since 1961 for iron-ore, toursim and
remittance industry.

Regards

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Could you please explain how foreign exchange
earnings translated into
the domestic currency amounts to a "loot"?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>

" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we
might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bernado Colaco]

Ok let us not call it loot since you get upset with
the term. Is it fine to say paid to the central
coffers? But tell the readers of Goa net the value of
FE paid to the central coffers.

Colaco

Post by Frederick Noronha (FN)
Are we simply trying to claim victim status for Goa
and Goans, even in
cases where there is no reason to do so?

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Paddydes]

In a message dated 06/08/2003 9:27:32 PM EST, timdemello2 at hotmail.com writes:

<< >From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred at bytesforall.org>
" . . . If the end goal is simply to decide our position, and then build
arguments around it, we might end up unnecessarily feeling sorry for
ourselves. FN "

It seems to be fashionable to do this these days - particularly on this
forum. >>

Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?

The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.

VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!

Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Bernado Colaco]

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:20:47 EDT, "Dom Martin <Dommartin9 at aol.com>" wrote:

I am sorry, I missed the whole scoop relating to "the goose that lays golden
eggs." But Pat's post (copied below) resonates a similar angst expressed by
Lira Fernandes, Lawrie D'Souza and Janette D'Souza in July of 2001. I am
resubmitting my response to their collective post which I feel, is as pertinent
today on that matter as it was almost two years ago:

For the first time in the realm of global dialogue, the Internet has liberated
expression of thought from the constricting domain of editors and newspapers and
invested it directly in the minds of all capable individuals.

Such power is not to be abused.

Secondly, it is not for the Goa Admin. Team to edit or suppress another's mind
or motive, so long as the contributed material does not infringe upon any
applicable laws. This task ? as Lira put it ? ought to be the burden and
conscious responsibility of the user.

Thirdly, like all good intentions, ideas on Goanet innocuously evolve into
issues, get bogged down into cross-issues, and then rapidly degenerate into
ego-rattling. If everyone graciously allowed valid ideas to become enlightened,
mindfully stick to the issues and stage ego-rattling in their own backyard, the
forum will revert back to what it was primarily intended to be: A Hospitable
Balcao!

Dom Martin


In a message dated 6/9/2003 1:04:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, Paddydes at aol.com,

Post by Paddydes
Then why doesn't Goanet Admin. put some teeth into it instead of simply
feeling sorry and keeping others on this forum miserable?
The published Goanet Membership Rules and Guidelines need to be revised.
Also, those permanently disbarred should never, repeat never, be back on this
forum as long as Goanet does not change its name with some odd prefix or
suffix.
Otherwise, it loses credibility and lacks a backbone.
VIVA GOANET (The 'Originale'), OF COURSE!
Pat de Sousa
Maryland, USA

[Agnelo Mascarenhas]

Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?

Goa's elected representatives and the people choose to treat their legacy and their future as they see fit. Your use of the term 'bharatis' for Indians is insulting. we may have differences among us Indians and Goans, foreigners are not allowed to butt in.

As far as dusting off the colonial legacy, Right, who knows when quislings will be given the warm welcome similar to the one they got in post WWII Europe, A summary trial and execution ?

A Goan, A 'Bharati'

Agnelo

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:14:47 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bernado=20Colaco?=
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet] June 10 Day of Camoes and Communities
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org

June 10 is celebrated round the world by Portuguese
communities and also as a day of Luis Vaz de Camoes
author of Lusiadas. Camoes lived in Goa for a short
period and Macau where he was inspired to write this
famous epic.

In Goa pro bharati elements in an attempt to 'clear'
450 years of Portuguese colonial history placed a bomb
on his statue (Old Goa)in a meek attempt to destroy
it. Under orders of the than divisive MGP the statue
was removed and placed in one of the churches. Today
the bharatis are dusting the colonial past. Who knows
the statue of Camoes may come back to its original
place in lieu of drawing more foreign tourists.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/attachments/20030610/ea3cac07/attachment-0004.htm>

[Bernado Colaco]

Dear Mr. Agnelo,

What a lovely Portuguese name! It is distressing to
read (your words A summary, trial and execution) the
propagation of mob culture under the present bharati
rule among Goans.

Mohandas K. Gandhi a world humanist and pacifist was
killed under near similar circumstances by fake pride
nationalists, who today are present in the US
collecting money for fake pride nationalism.

It is more shameful to read a left wing journalist
condoning the act of terrorism on a world literary
figure.

I just wonder what relevance does anglofilia have on
Goanet?


--- Agnelo Mascarenhas <agnelomas at yahoo.com> wrote: >

Post by Agnelo Mascarenhas
Camoes is a Portuguese cultural figure, to refresh
your memory, Goans are ethnic Indians. what is the
relevance of Camoes to Goans and goanet ?
A Goan, A 'Bharati'
Agnelo

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

[Tim de Mello]

Dear Mr. Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>,

I do not know who you are but it would appear that you are deliberately
trying to get Goa-Netters into a confrontational state with your posts.
Thank God they know better!

If I felt that your posts had merit I would have tried to engage you in some
sort of discussion but to sink to your level would mean that I would be
wasting not only your and my time but also precious bandwidth.

The Goa-Netters reading your posts know full well from which solitude you
come from - and it must be pretty lonely out there.

I wonder if you really are who you are. Do any other Goa-Netters from the
U.K. know you? If so I would like to hear from them. If you are using a
psuedonym then I suggest you spend your time in a better way than posting
ridiculous e-mails to this forum.

We will all benefit from this.


And, Oh! Yes!

VIVA GOA!!!

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
Goa, INDIA

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail