Discussion:
Plagiarism
(too old to reply)
Gilbert Lawrence
2007-03-18 22:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism.
Copy from multiple sources and it is research.

Now given all the chest pounding about uprightness,
Would an apology to Selma be forthcoming?
Or is that too much to ask?
Kind Regards, GL
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-19 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism.
Copy from multiple sources and it is research.
I am surprised that an educated man is confused about
the difference between plagiarism and research. If it
is mere confusion or ignorance then one can fault the
type of education one has received at home or at the
primary school level. But if the apparent moral
equivalence between borderline criminal activity and
one of the noblest forms of human endeavor, stated
above, stems from cynicism, then such an assertion and
mindset should be greeted with the utmost condemnation
from those who are hoping that our children be better
educated.

What kind of a role model is a physician who, despite
being a beneficiary of 200 years of medical research,
equates all research with unlawful behavior such as
plagiarism?

Moreover, how alarming is it that a person who has
published some writings of his own thinks that it is
as normal to plagiarize as it is to engage in
research?

Who would trust what such an author publishes?

Cheers,

Santosh
Gilbert Lawrence
2007-03-21 00:48:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi Santosh,

I am surprised that you have not heard / read of this idiom under discussion (see below). But I will be nice and not follow your example and find reasons for your oversight (being polite). Stridency and personalizing a discussion is a poor substitute for well-reasoned arguments. I hope intelligent people can dialogue without getting bent-out-of-shape. So it is time you grow-up and let your writings reflect your skill. A little sense of humor will not hurt.

The thrust of my post was a request for an apology to Selma. And that brings-up an important point about us Goans. We are quick at the draw to accuse, but not to apologize. And this applies to you too, my friend, as I have demonstrated in the past, on many topics.

Now to the issue of plagiarism. My own attitude is: Yes, I agree with you to a point. But do not push your luck too much, as you are wont to do.

It is WELL KNOWN that many use the excuse of plagiarism, including filing law suits, merely to get publicity for themselves and their work. Who would know the accuser's work, if he / she had not used plagiarism as a ruse to display this to us? Others use the threat of plagiarism to suppress other peoples' work. And, as we see on Goanet, to rebut other peoples' argument (Remember Inquisition discussion?:=)).

If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased. Because that further expands the message / concepts that I want to spread. My goal of writing a scientific paper (say on breast cancer), is not for self-aggrandizement. It is to help breast cancer patients. So anything that helps in spreading the info and improving the treatment (that is being suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit or not.

It is only an insecure person with little in accomplishments that would waste their time looking for who is doing what to whom. For me I have more important things to work and write on. That is the message I would give other Goans who want to really advance.

No! I am not encouraging people to plagiarize. I am encouraging them to research multiple sources and thoughtfully analyze the material one reads. As I have shown on Goanet, many have the wrong facts or impressions, from their single (or should I say the plagiarized) source.
Kind Regards, GL

------------ Santosh Helekar

I am surprised that an educated man is confused about the difference between plagiarism and research. If it is mere confusion or ignorance then one can fault the type of education one has received at home or at the primary school level. But if the apparent moral equivalence between borderline criminal activity and one of the noblest forms of human endeavor, stated above, stems from cynicism, then such an assertion and mindset should be greeted with the utmost condemnation from those who are hoping that our children be better educated.
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism. Copy from multiple sources and it is research.
Bosco D'Mello
2007-03-21 04:26:40 UTC
Permalink
pla?gia?rism
-noun
1. the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of
another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.

2. something used and represented in this manner.

http://dictionary.reference.com
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased.
Because that further expands the message / concepts
that I want to spread.
RESPONSE: Gilbert, that's very gracious of you to let others copy your work
but that is not how this issue really works, today, especially from high
school all the way to PhD. Many students have gotten into serious trouble
even for minor infractions at some prestigious schools and there is a fair
amount of air time in the press too. There are utilities out there like
turnitin.com that will help a prof fish you out in a matter of seconds.
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
My goal of writing a scientific paper (say on breast
cancer), is not for self-aggrandizement. It is to help
breast cancer patients. So anything that helps in
spreading the info and improving the treatment (that
is being suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit
or not.
RESPONSE: Help me out here - do medical/scientific papers have to conform to
any formatting standard? For eg. APA, MLA, Chicago, British ? If they do,
then citations, footnotes, bibliography are the norm and the issue of
plagiarism does not arise.

On a more localised level, we have the issue of some people sending news
stories here without the original weblink. That too can be problematic.
We've seen FN post some of his content here using the Creative Commons (CC)
licence which was recently launched at IIT-Mumbai. As I understand, you are
free to copy content published under this licence, but you still have to
include citations.

I think the issue that JoeGoaUK brought to our attention of people
plagiarizing his work is unfortunate. Its a known fact that JoeGoaUK invests
a considerable amount of time in generating those videoclips.

Some of the photos in the links that were provided by Jose Colaco seemed
dubious. But as he himself indicated that is a common location to take a
picture.

- Bosco
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-21 05:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Gilbert,

I will ignore your innuendo, and address only the
issue of plagiarism. What is your definition of
plagiarism? The standard one that I know is stealing
of published material from others and claiming it as
your own.

Regarding the rest, I request you to answer a few
questions that were raised by it.
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
I am surprised that you have not heard / read of
this idiom under discussion (see below).
Are you now claiming that the comments in your
previous post were some kind of an idiom? Do you agree
with what this "idiom" said?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
But I will be nice and not follow your example and
find reasons for your oversight (being polite).
Is purveying "idioms" equating plagiarism with
research in public forums being polite to those who
are engaged in research, according to you?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
It is only an insecure person with little in
accomplishments that would waste their time looking
for who is doing what to whom. For me I have more
important things to work and write on.
Are you now trying to be polite to people who have not
accomplished as much or as little as you have?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
As I have shown on Goanet, many have the wrong facts
or impressions, from their single (or should I say
the plagiarized) source.
If someone has cited a source, regardless of whether
it is single or multiple, according to the standard
definition, it is not plagiarism. It appears that you
have a separate definition of your own. What is it?

Cheers,

Santosh
Cecil Pinto
2007-03-21 08:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Forgive my ignorance but I'm not quite understanding who stands where on
this thread of plagiarism.

1) Why exactly is Gilbert Lawrence expecting Selma to apologise? What
exactly did she plagiarize?

2) Gilbert Lawrence has also authored a book, "Amchi Khobor - Our News -
Inside Goa". Since there are no references cited I can only assume that the
entire contents of the book are his original work. Will Gilbert please
clarify if the contents of his book are all original? If there are parts
that are quoted from other books or papers why haven't they been given
credit, as is the norm worldwide. Or is there some new trend in publishing
where one can freely quote without mentioning the original sources?

3) Will Fred please clarify if the model which he is propounding allows one
to quote large sections from original sources without giving credit and
thus making it appear as though it was the author's original work?

Cheers!

Cecil
==========
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-21 17:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Cecil, I presume you are referring to me....
Post by Cecil Pinto
3) Will Fred please clarify if the model which he is propounding allows one
to quote large sections from original sources without giving credit and
thus making it appear as though it was the author's original work?
Let us not look at ourselves as the victim. If we are eager to
redefine how the world looks at "copyright", the creative process and
sharing our work (specially in digital times) then let us give the
lead ourselves.

To answer your question:

Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery. If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea or information".
That is, if someone takes your ideas and paraphrases them
sufficiently, it might not amount to copyright violation. So, what's
the big deal? Besides, there is no copyright on ideas.

Instead of spending my life chasing people who have allegedly violated
my copyright, I would concentrate on doing more useful work, and also
maybe request whoever wants to reproduce it to kindly mention the
source (and credit me) if possible. If they didn't, I wouldn't lose
sleep over that.

Anyway, I'm trying to convince a publisher to reprint part of the
Wikipedia currently! My concerns about "digital rights" focus on a
different end of the pool. We also have an Asia Commons network. So
I'm looking at business models which focus on sharing and surviving!
FN
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-21 17:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Cecil, I presume you are referring to me....
Post by Cecil Pinto
3) Will Fred please clarify if the model which he is propounding allows one
to quote large sections from original sources without giving credit and
thus making it appear as though it was the author's original work?
Let us not look at ourselves as the victim. If we are eager to
redefine how the world looks at "copyright", the creative process and
sharing our work (specially in digital times) then let us give the
lead ourselves.

To answer your question:

Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery. If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea or information".
That is, if someone takes your ideas and paraphrases them
sufficiently, it might not amount to copyright violation. So, what's
the big deal? Besides, there is no copyright on ideas.

Instead of spending my life chasing people who have allegedly violated
my copyright, I would concentrate on doing more useful work, and also
maybe request whoever wants to reproduce it to kindly mention the
source (and credit me) if possible. If they didn't, I wouldn't lose
sleep over that.

Anyway, I'm trying to convince a publisher to reprint part of the
Wikipedia currently! My concerns about "digital rights" focus on a
different end of the pool. We also have an Asia Commons network. So
I'm looking at business models which focus on sharing and surviving!
FN
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-21 17:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Cecil, I presume you are referring to me....
Post by Cecil Pinto
3) Will Fred please clarify if the model which he is propounding allows one
to quote large sections from original sources without giving credit and
thus making it appear as though it was the author's original work?
Let us not look at ourselves as the victim. If we are eager to
redefine how the world looks at "copyright", the creative process and
sharing our work (specially in digital times) then let us give the
lead ourselves.

To answer your question:

Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery. If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea or information".
That is, if someone takes your ideas and paraphrases them
sufficiently, it might not amount to copyright violation. So, what's
the big deal? Besides, there is no copyright on ideas.

Instead of spending my life chasing people who have allegedly violated
my copyright, I would concentrate on doing more useful work, and also
maybe request whoever wants to reproduce it to kindly mention the
source (and credit me) if possible. If they didn't, I wouldn't lose
sleep over that.

Anyway, I'm trying to convince a publisher to reprint part of the
Wikipedia currently! My concerns about "digital rights" focus on a
different end of the pool. We also have an Asia Commons network. So
I'm looking at business models which focus on sharing and surviving!
FN
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-21 17:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Cecil, I presume you are referring to me....
Post by Cecil Pinto
3) Will Fred please clarify if the model which he is propounding allows one
to quote large sections from original sources without giving credit and
thus making it appear as though it was the author's original work?
Let us not look at ourselves as the victim. If we are eager to
redefine how the world looks at "copyright", the creative process and
sharing our work (specially in digital times) then let us give the
lead ourselves.

To answer your question:

Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery. If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea or information".
That is, if someone takes your ideas and paraphrases them
sufficiently, it might not amount to copyright violation. So, what's
the big deal? Besides, there is no copyright on ideas.

Instead of spending my life chasing people who have allegedly violated
my copyright, I would concentrate on doing more useful work, and also
maybe request whoever wants to reproduce it to kindly mention the
source (and credit me) if possible. If they didn't, I wouldn't lose
sleep over that.

Anyway, I'm trying to convince a publisher to reprint part of the
Wikipedia currently! My concerns about "digital rights" focus on a
different end of the pool. We also have an Asia Commons network. So
I'm looking at business models which focus on sharing and surviving!
FN
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-21 17:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Cecil, I presume you are referring to me....
Post by Cecil Pinto
3) Will Fred please clarify if the model which he is propounding allows one
to quote large sections from original sources without giving credit and
thus making it appear as though it was the author's original work?
Let us not look at ourselves as the victim. If we are eager to
redefine how the world looks at "copyright", the creative process and
sharing our work (specially in digital times) then let us give the
lead ourselves.

To answer your question:

Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery. If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea or information".
That is, if someone takes your ideas and paraphrases them
sufficiently, it might not amount to copyright violation. So, what's
the big deal? Besides, there is no copyright on ideas.

Instead of spending my life chasing people who have allegedly violated
my copyright, I would concentrate on doing more useful work, and also
maybe request whoever wants to reproduce it to kindly mention the
source (and credit me) if possible. If they didn't, I wouldn't lose
sleep over that.

Anyway, I'm trying to convince a publisher to reprint part of the
Wikipedia currently! My concerns about "digital rights" focus on a
different end of the pool. We also have an Asia Commons network. So
I'm looking at business models which focus on sharing and surviving!
FN
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-21 17:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Cecil, I presume you are referring to me....
Post by Cecil Pinto
3) Will Fred please clarify if the model which he is propounding allows one
to quote large sections from original sources without giving credit and
thus making it appear as though it was the author's original work?
Let us not look at ourselves as the victim. If we are eager to
redefine how the world looks at "copyright", the creative process and
sharing our work (specially in digital times) then let us give the
lead ourselves.

To answer your question:

Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery. If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea or information".
That is, if someone takes your ideas and paraphrases them
sufficiently, it might not amount to copyright violation. So, what's
the big deal? Besides, there is no copyright on ideas.

Instead of spending my life chasing people who have allegedly violated
my copyright, I would concentrate on doing more useful work, and also
maybe request whoever wants to reproduce it to kindly mention the
source (and credit me) if possible. If they didn't, I wouldn't lose
sleep over that.

Anyway, I'm trying to convince a publisher to reprint part of the
Wikipedia currently! My concerns about "digital rights" focus on a
different end of the pool. We also have an Asia Commons network. So
I'm looking at business models which focus on sharing and surviving!
FN
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-21 17:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Cecil, I presume you are referring to me....
Post by Cecil Pinto
3) Will Fred please clarify if the model which he is propounding allows one
to quote large sections from original sources without giving credit and
thus making it appear as though it was the author's original work?
Let us not look at ourselves as the victim. If we are eager to
redefine how the world looks at "copyright", the creative process and
sharing our work (specially in digital times) then let us give the
lead ourselves.

To answer your question:

Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery. If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea or information".
That is, if someone takes your ideas and paraphrases them
sufficiently, it might not amount to copyright violation. So, what's
the big deal? Besides, there is no copyright on ideas.

Instead of spending my life chasing people who have allegedly violated
my copyright, I would concentrate on doing more useful work, and also
maybe request whoever wants to reproduce it to kindly mention the
source (and credit me) if possible. If they didn't, I wouldn't lose
sleep over that.

Anyway, I'm trying to convince a publisher to reprint part of the
Wikipedia currently! My concerns about "digital rights" focus on a
different end of the pool. We also have an Asia Commons network. So
I'm looking at business models which focus on sharing and surviving!
FN
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Gilbert Lawrence
2007-03-22 02:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jose,
I have some questions to ask you for which I would like studied answers - not your burst of unrelated statements. This should help the students at Cornell University etc., who you and Santosh suggest / accuse of plagiarizing.

This afternoon I attended our weekly medical staff Grand-Rounds at our hospital. A final-year medical student made a presentation on Alzheimer Disease. His power-point slides (about 50) had a lot of data and pictures. There were absolutely no references. I was thinking about you, as I listened to this impressive presentation.

Is the above presentation any different from a medical presentation done at other teaching hospitals?
Did this medical student do any / all this original research about the facts he presented?
Do your medical students do the same, if not please enlighten how they get their training in the Bahamas?

Was the researched material of this presentation confined to published data?
Is that type of "distilled" information what the audience wants to hear?
Was this medical student plagiarizing his data, facts and information?

When you teach students, do you present information and facts, most of which are not your original work?
If they happen to be your original work, would you permit your students to use it or would that be plagiarized information?
If one does not want the students to use the facts and information provided, why does one teach?

Should med. students, residents and other doctors not be allowed to present the info from textbooks and journals they research and study?
If they do so, should they be giving reference for every item of fact?
Why would one spend time reading medical books if not to gain from the authors' ideas?
Why would one pay an author and publisher to buy a textbook if one cannot use the information gained from the book?

If one is not a physical eyewitness to history, can one recount historical events or would that be plagiarized information?
Should articles in Time, Newsweek magazines and newspapers have references?

I am not interested in off-the-top responses that do not address these specific issues. Please give some thoughtful and intellectual answers. If you cannot, perhaps you can save your efforts and make this your's and my last post. As you know, many on Goanet have stopped dialoguing with you, because many of your responses and comments are just off-the-wall and not worth being dignified with a response.
Regards, GL
Mervyn Lobo
2007-03-21 23:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased.
Because that further expands the message / concepts
that I want to spread. My goal of writing a
scientific paper (say on breast cancer), is not for
self-aggrandizement. It is to help breast cancer
patients. So anything that helps in spreading the
info and improving the treatment (that is being
suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit or not.
GL,
I spotted the following quote in today's, "The Globe
and Mail."

?What better way to prove that you understand a
subject than to make money out of it?
-Harold Rosenburg-

Mervyn3.0







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-22 04:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Frederick,

As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?

Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
available on the internet, as it should be:
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/

Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"
......................
Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery.
If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I
would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please
note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea
or information".
....................................
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-22 21:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Santosh, I see my duty as working to ensure that access to information
and knowledge is not blocked by greedy corporates, the Bill Gates of
the world, and others who spread FUD (fear, uncertainity and doubt)
over issues like "intellectual property" and irrational fears about
"pirating" Shakespeare.

Goanet Reader, and, it's wherever possible CreativeCommons license, is
an example of what we are trying. Likewise, at least a couple of books
have been published in Goa in the past few months under such a
license. My 7000+ sharable photos online is another small step in this
direction. We have never faced problems about work being "stolen" and
reproduced without permission. We need to make it easier for people to
share content, and everyone would then benefit.

We need to recognise that copyright laws (and patents) have reached a
ridiculous point-of-no-return.

My friends Lawrence Liang, et al of the Alternative Law Forum of
Bangalore put it well when they say:

OPENQUOTE The existence of alternatives to copyright -- such as
copyleft, the open source movement, the Fairshare and Street Performer
protocols -- belie the reality of copyright. Conceptually, these
alternatives challenge the fundamentals upon which copyright rests.
The emphasis is on the ability of users to modify and distribute works
-- yet there is still 'incentive' to create, as is evident in the
success and spread of Linux. Essentially there is no contradiction of
purpose as it creates public rights for a public purpose.

If the world of copyright constructs itself as the only model of
incentive, reward, etc for creative labour, the symbolic power of the
open source movement rests in the creation of alternative social
imaginaries which turn every assumption of copyright upon itself.
CLOSEQUOTE

http://www.infochangeindia.org/IPR_article4.jsp
Post by Santosh Helekar
Frederick,
As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?
Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/
Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.
Cheers,
Santosh
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-22 21:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Santosh, I see my duty as working to ensure that access to information
and knowledge is not blocked by greedy corporates, the Bill Gates of
the world, and others who spread FUD (fear, uncertainity and doubt)
over issues like "intellectual property" and irrational fears about
"pirating" Shakespeare.

Goanet Reader, and, it's wherever possible CreativeCommons license, is
an example of what we are trying. Likewise, at least a couple of books
have been published in Goa in the past few months under such a
license. My 7000+ sharable photos online is another small step in this
direction. We have never faced problems about work being "stolen" and
reproduced without permission. We need to make it easier for people to
share content, and everyone would then benefit.

We need to recognise that copyright laws (and patents) have reached a
ridiculous point-of-no-return.

My friends Lawrence Liang, et al of the Alternative Law Forum of
Bangalore put it well when they say:

OPENQUOTE The existence of alternatives to copyright -- such as
copyleft, the open source movement, the Fairshare and Street Performer
protocols -- belie the reality of copyright. Conceptually, these
alternatives challenge the fundamentals upon which copyright rests.
The emphasis is on the ability of users to modify and distribute works
-- yet there is still 'incentive' to create, as is evident in the
success and spread of Linux. Essentially there is no contradiction of
purpose as it creates public rights for a public purpose.

If the world of copyright constructs itself as the only model of
incentive, reward, etc for creative labour, the symbolic power of the
open source movement rests in the creation of alternative social
imaginaries which turn every assumption of copyright upon itself.
CLOSEQUOTE

http://www.infochangeindia.org/IPR_article4.jsp
Post by Santosh Helekar
Frederick,
As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?
Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/
Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.
Cheers,
Santosh
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-22 21:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Santosh, I see my duty as working to ensure that access to information
and knowledge is not blocked by greedy corporates, the Bill Gates of
the world, and others who spread FUD (fear, uncertainity and doubt)
over issues like "intellectual property" and irrational fears about
"pirating" Shakespeare.

Goanet Reader, and, it's wherever possible CreativeCommons license, is
an example of what we are trying. Likewise, at least a couple of books
have been published in Goa in the past few months under such a
license. My 7000+ sharable photos online is another small step in this
direction. We have never faced problems about work being "stolen" and
reproduced without permission. We need to make it easier for people to
share content, and everyone would then benefit.

We need to recognise that copyright laws (and patents) have reached a
ridiculous point-of-no-return.

My friends Lawrence Liang, et al of the Alternative Law Forum of
Bangalore put it well when they say:

OPENQUOTE The existence of alternatives to copyright -- such as
copyleft, the open source movement, the Fairshare and Street Performer
protocols -- belie the reality of copyright. Conceptually, these
alternatives challenge the fundamentals upon which copyright rests.
The emphasis is on the ability of users to modify and distribute works
-- yet there is still 'incentive' to create, as is evident in the
success and spread of Linux. Essentially there is no contradiction of
purpose as it creates public rights for a public purpose.

If the world of copyright constructs itself as the only model of
incentive, reward, etc for creative labour, the symbolic power of the
open source movement rests in the creation of alternative social
imaginaries which turn every assumption of copyright upon itself.
CLOSEQUOTE

http://www.infochangeindia.org/IPR_article4.jsp
Post by Santosh Helekar
Frederick,
As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?
Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/
Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.
Cheers,
Santosh
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-22 21:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Santosh, I see my duty as working to ensure that access to information
and knowledge is not blocked by greedy corporates, the Bill Gates of
the world, and others who spread FUD (fear, uncertainity and doubt)
over issues like "intellectual property" and irrational fears about
"pirating" Shakespeare.

Goanet Reader, and, it's wherever possible CreativeCommons license, is
an example of what we are trying. Likewise, at least a couple of books
have been published in Goa in the past few months under such a
license. My 7000+ sharable photos online is another small step in this
direction. We have never faced problems about work being "stolen" and
reproduced without permission. We need to make it easier for people to
share content, and everyone would then benefit.

We need to recognise that copyright laws (and patents) have reached a
ridiculous point-of-no-return.

My friends Lawrence Liang, et al of the Alternative Law Forum of
Bangalore put it well when they say:

OPENQUOTE The existence of alternatives to copyright -- such as
copyleft, the open source movement, the Fairshare and Street Performer
protocols -- belie the reality of copyright. Conceptually, these
alternatives challenge the fundamentals upon which copyright rests.
The emphasis is on the ability of users to modify and distribute works
-- yet there is still 'incentive' to create, as is evident in the
success and spread of Linux. Essentially there is no contradiction of
purpose as it creates public rights for a public purpose.

If the world of copyright constructs itself as the only model of
incentive, reward, etc for creative labour, the symbolic power of the
open source movement rests in the creation of alternative social
imaginaries which turn every assumption of copyright upon itself.
CLOSEQUOTE

http://www.infochangeindia.org/IPR_article4.jsp
Post by Santosh Helekar
Frederick,
As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?
Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/
Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.
Cheers,
Santosh
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-22 21:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Santosh, I see my duty as working to ensure that access to information
and knowledge is not blocked by greedy corporates, the Bill Gates of
the world, and others who spread FUD (fear, uncertainity and doubt)
over issues like "intellectual property" and irrational fears about
"pirating" Shakespeare.

Goanet Reader, and, it's wherever possible CreativeCommons license, is
an example of what we are trying. Likewise, at least a couple of books
have been published in Goa in the past few months under such a
license. My 7000+ sharable photos online is another small step in this
direction. We have never faced problems about work being "stolen" and
reproduced without permission. We need to make it easier for people to
share content, and everyone would then benefit.

We need to recognise that copyright laws (and patents) have reached a
ridiculous point-of-no-return.

My friends Lawrence Liang, et al of the Alternative Law Forum of
Bangalore put it well when they say:

OPENQUOTE The existence of alternatives to copyright -- such as
copyleft, the open source movement, the Fairshare and Street Performer
protocols -- belie the reality of copyright. Conceptually, these
alternatives challenge the fundamentals upon which copyright rests.
The emphasis is on the ability of users to modify and distribute works
-- yet there is still 'incentive' to create, as is evident in the
success and spread of Linux. Essentially there is no contradiction of
purpose as it creates public rights for a public purpose.

If the world of copyright constructs itself as the only model of
incentive, reward, etc for creative labour, the symbolic power of the
open source movement rests in the creation of alternative social
imaginaries which turn every assumption of copyright upon itself.
CLOSEQUOTE

http://www.infochangeindia.org/IPR_article4.jsp
Post by Santosh Helekar
Frederick,
As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?
Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/
Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.
Cheers,
Santosh
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-22 21:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Santosh, I see my duty as working to ensure that access to information
and knowledge is not blocked by greedy corporates, the Bill Gates of
the world, and others who spread FUD (fear, uncertainity and doubt)
over issues like "intellectual property" and irrational fears about
"pirating" Shakespeare.

Goanet Reader, and, it's wherever possible CreativeCommons license, is
an example of what we are trying. Likewise, at least a couple of books
have been published in Goa in the past few months under such a
license. My 7000+ sharable photos online is another small step in this
direction. We have never faced problems about work being "stolen" and
reproduced without permission. We need to make it easier for people to
share content, and everyone would then benefit.

We need to recognise that copyright laws (and patents) have reached a
ridiculous point-of-no-return.

My friends Lawrence Liang, et al of the Alternative Law Forum of
Bangalore put it well when they say:

OPENQUOTE The existence of alternatives to copyright -- such as
copyleft, the open source movement, the Fairshare and Street Performer
protocols -- belie the reality of copyright. Conceptually, these
alternatives challenge the fundamentals upon which copyright rests.
The emphasis is on the ability of users to modify and distribute works
-- yet there is still 'incentive' to create, as is evident in the
success and spread of Linux. Essentially there is no contradiction of
purpose as it creates public rights for a public purpose.

If the world of copyright constructs itself as the only model of
incentive, reward, etc for creative labour, the symbolic power of the
open source movement rests in the creation of alternative social
imaginaries which turn every assumption of copyright upon itself.
CLOSEQUOTE

http://www.infochangeindia.org/IPR_article4.jsp
Post by Santosh Helekar
Frederick,
As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?
Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/
Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.
Cheers,
Santosh
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Frederick "FN" Noronha
2007-03-22 21:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Santosh, I see my duty as working to ensure that access to information
and knowledge is not blocked by greedy corporates, the Bill Gates of
the world, and others who spread FUD (fear, uncertainity and doubt)
over issues like "intellectual property" and irrational fears about
"pirating" Shakespeare.

Goanet Reader, and, it's wherever possible CreativeCommons license, is
an example of what we are trying. Likewise, at least a couple of books
have been published in Goa in the past few months under such a
license. My 7000+ sharable photos online is another small step in this
direction. We have never faced problems about work being "stolen" and
reproduced without permission. We need to make it easier for people to
share content, and everyone would then benefit.

We need to recognise that copyright laws (and patents) have reached a
ridiculous point-of-no-return.

My friends Lawrence Liang, et al of the Alternative Law Forum of
Bangalore put it well when they say:

OPENQUOTE The existence of alternatives to copyright -- such as
copyleft, the open source movement, the Fairshare and Street Performer
protocols -- belie the reality of copyright. Conceptually, these
alternatives challenge the fundamentals upon which copyright rests.
The emphasis is on the ability of users to modify and distribute works
-- yet there is still 'incentive' to create, as is evident in the
success and spread of Linux. Essentially there is no contradiction of
purpose as it creates public rights for a public purpose.

If the world of copyright constructs itself as the only model of
incentive, reward, etc for creative labour, the symbolic power of the
open source movement rests in the creation of alternative social
imaginaries which turn every assumption of copyright upon itself.
CLOSEQUOTE

http://www.infochangeindia.org/IPR_article4.jsp
Post by Santosh Helekar
Frederick,
As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?
Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/
Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.
Cheers,
Santosh
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Sunith D Velho
2007-03-27 12:57:46 UTC
Permalink
Frederick,

Even that great temple of learning, Wikipedia has a guide on how to
write a good article. Part of that guide is the following link on the
importance of citing sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources

Why do you seem to be defending plagiarism in your fight against
intellectual copyright.

Citing references or sources in no way hinders the sharing of knowledge
but instead vastly improves the 'quality' of information in circulation
and rightly gives credit where it is due. Whether the original authors
were or were not seeking fame or gratification for themselves is
entirely irrelevant to the debate.

Regards
--
Sunith D Velho
sunith.velho at kcl.ac.uk
Arnold Noronha
2007-03-27 13:02:14 UTC
Permalink
Plagiarism
An extract from Wikipedia states:
Plagiarism is the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and
thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own
original work. Ergo, it's tantamount to the perceived pilferage of published
products for profit and prominence. Detection can Illwill and Censure
invite..


The proscription against plagiarism is about protecting Ownership and
fostering
Creativity.

Plagiarism is unauthorized use of other's material that belies
The author?s competence and in the face of Originality flies
It smacks of soiled creativity and misplaced enterprise
Overstepping boundaries of propriety with such unfair device
Manifests abject dishonesty the Establishment does despise
As all the desirable merit accruing to such work ignobly dies
The product of an author should be unassailably seminal and wise
Of its purity and integrity, no aspersions and doubts should arise
Powers-that-be judge the work?s value not merely by craft and size
Failing the touchstone test of circumspection, Society will sternly
criticize
After due process, censorious standards of justice the Law will exercise
Thus to many a good reputation, offending pirates have said "Goodbyes"

Stealing intellectual eggs from another's nest, could make you a dubious
Book Club guest.

Arnold

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office
Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-19 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism.
Copy from multiple sources and it is research.
I am surprised that an educated man is confused about
the difference between plagiarism and research. If it
is mere confusion or ignorance then one can fault the
type of education one has received at home or at the
primary school level. But if the apparent moral
equivalence between borderline criminal activity and
one of the noblest forms of human endeavor, stated
above, stems from cynicism, then such an assertion and
mindset should be greeted with the utmost condemnation
from those who are hoping that our children be better
educated.

What kind of a role model is a physician who, despite
being a beneficiary of 200 years of medical research,
equates all research with unlawful behavior such as
plagiarism?

Moreover, how alarming is it that a person who has
published some writings of his own thinks that it is
as normal to plagiarize as it is to engage in
research?

Who would trust what such an author publishes?

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-21 05:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Gilbert,

I will ignore your innuendo, and address only the
issue of plagiarism. What is your definition of
plagiarism? The standard one that I know is stealing
of published material from others and claiming it as
your own.

Regarding the rest, I request you to answer a few
questions that were raised by it.
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
I am surprised that you have not heard / read of
this idiom under discussion (see below).
Are you now claiming that the comments in your
previous post were some kind of an idiom? Do you agree
with what this "idiom" said?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
But I will be nice and not follow your example and
find reasons for your oversight (being polite).
Is purveying "idioms" equating plagiarism with
research in public forums being polite to those who
are engaged in research, according to you?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
It is only an insecure person with little in
accomplishments that would waste their time looking
for who is doing what to whom. For me I have more
important things to work and write on.
Are you now trying to be polite to people who have not
accomplished as much or as little as you have?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
As I have shown on Goanet, many have the wrong facts
or impressions, from their single (or should I say
the plagiarized) source.
If someone has cited a source, regardless of whether
it is single or multiple, according to the standard
definition, it is not plagiarism. It appears that you
have a separate definition of your own. What is it?

Cheers,

Santosh
Mervyn Lobo
2007-03-21 23:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased.
Because that further expands the message / concepts
that I want to spread. My goal of writing a
scientific paper (say on breast cancer), is not for
self-aggrandizement. It is to help breast cancer
patients. So anything that helps in spreading the
info and improving the treatment (that is being
suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit or not.
GL,
I spotted the following quote in today's, "The Globe
and Mail."

?What better way to prove that you understand a
subject than to make money out of it?
-Harold Rosenburg-

Mervyn3.0







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-22 04:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Frederick,

As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?

Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
available on the internet, as it should be:
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/

Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"
......................
Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery.
If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I
would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please
note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea
or information".
....................................
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-19 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism.
Copy from multiple sources and it is research.
I am surprised that an educated man is confused about
the difference between plagiarism and research. If it
is mere confusion or ignorance then one can fault the
type of education one has received at home or at the
primary school level. But if the apparent moral
equivalence between borderline criminal activity and
one of the noblest forms of human endeavor, stated
above, stems from cynicism, then such an assertion and
mindset should be greeted with the utmost condemnation
from those who are hoping that our children be better
educated.

What kind of a role model is a physician who, despite
being a beneficiary of 200 years of medical research,
equates all research with unlawful behavior such as
plagiarism?

Moreover, how alarming is it that a person who has
published some writings of his own thinks that it is
as normal to plagiarize as it is to engage in
research?

Who would trust what such an author publishes?

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-21 05:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Gilbert,

I will ignore your innuendo, and address only the
issue of plagiarism. What is your definition of
plagiarism? The standard one that I know is stealing
of published material from others and claiming it as
your own.

Regarding the rest, I request you to answer a few
questions that were raised by it.
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
I am surprised that you have not heard / read of
this idiom under discussion (see below).
Are you now claiming that the comments in your
previous post were some kind of an idiom? Do you agree
with what this "idiom" said?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
But I will be nice and not follow your example and
find reasons for your oversight (being polite).
Is purveying "idioms" equating plagiarism with
research in public forums being polite to those who
are engaged in research, according to you?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
It is only an insecure person with little in
accomplishments that would waste their time looking
for who is doing what to whom. For me I have more
important things to work and write on.
Are you now trying to be polite to people who have not
accomplished as much or as little as you have?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
As I have shown on Goanet, many have the wrong facts
or impressions, from their single (or should I say
the plagiarized) source.
If someone has cited a source, regardless of whether
it is single or multiple, according to the standard
definition, it is not plagiarism. It appears that you
have a separate definition of your own. What is it?

Cheers,

Santosh
Mervyn Lobo
2007-03-21 23:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased.
Because that further expands the message / concepts
that I want to spread. My goal of writing a
scientific paper (say on breast cancer), is not for
self-aggrandizement. It is to help breast cancer
patients. So anything that helps in spreading the
info and improving the treatment (that is being
suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit or not.
GL,
I spotted the following quote in today's, "The Globe
and Mail."

?What better way to prove that you understand a
subject than to make money out of it?
-Harold Rosenburg-

Mervyn3.0







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-22 04:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Frederick,

As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?

Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
available on the internet, as it should be:
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/

Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"
......................
Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery.
If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I
would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please
note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea
or information".
....................................
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-19 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism.
Copy from multiple sources and it is research.
I am surprised that an educated man is confused about
the difference between plagiarism and research. If it
is mere confusion or ignorance then one can fault the
type of education one has received at home or at the
primary school level. But if the apparent moral
equivalence between borderline criminal activity and
one of the noblest forms of human endeavor, stated
above, stems from cynicism, then such an assertion and
mindset should be greeted with the utmost condemnation
from those who are hoping that our children be better
educated.

What kind of a role model is a physician who, despite
being a beneficiary of 200 years of medical research,
equates all research with unlawful behavior such as
plagiarism?

Moreover, how alarming is it that a person who has
published some writings of his own thinks that it is
as normal to plagiarize as it is to engage in
research?

Who would trust what such an author publishes?

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-21 05:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Gilbert,

I will ignore your innuendo, and address only the
issue of plagiarism. What is your definition of
plagiarism? The standard one that I know is stealing
of published material from others and claiming it as
your own.

Regarding the rest, I request you to answer a few
questions that were raised by it.
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
I am surprised that you have not heard / read of
this idiom under discussion (see below).
Are you now claiming that the comments in your
previous post were some kind of an idiom? Do you agree
with what this "idiom" said?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
But I will be nice and not follow your example and
find reasons for your oversight (being polite).
Is purveying "idioms" equating plagiarism with
research in public forums being polite to those who
are engaged in research, according to you?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
It is only an insecure person with little in
accomplishments that would waste their time looking
for who is doing what to whom. For me I have more
important things to work and write on.
Are you now trying to be polite to people who have not
accomplished as much or as little as you have?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
As I have shown on Goanet, many have the wrong facts
or impressions, from their single (or should I say
the plagiarized) source.
If someone has cited a source, regardless of whether
it is single or multiple, according to the standard
definition, it is not plagiarism. It appears that you
have a separate definition of your own. What is it?

Cheers,

Santosh
Mervyn Lobo
2007-03-21 23:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased.
Because that further expands the message / concepts
that I want to spread. My goal of writing a
scientific paper (say on breast cancer), is not for
self-aggrandizement. It is to help breast cancer
patients. So anything that helps in spreading the
info and improving the treatment (that is being
suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit or not.
GL,
I spotted the following quote in today's, "The Globe
and Mail."

?What better way to prove that you understand a
subject than to make money out of it?
-Harold Rosenburg-

Mervyn3.0







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-22 04:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Frederick,

As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?

Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
available on the internet, as it should be:
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/

Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"
......................
Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery.
If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I
would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please
note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea
or information".
....................................
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-19 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism.
Copy from multiple sources and it is research.
I am surprised that an educated man is confused about
the difference between plagiarism and research. If it
is mere confusion or ignorance then one can fault the
type of education one has received at home or at the
primary school level. But if the apparent moral
equivalence between borderline criminal activity and
one of the noblest forms of human endeavor, stated
above, stems from cynicism, then such an assertion and
mindset should be greeted with the utmost condemnation
from those who are hoping that our children be better
educated.

What kind of a role model is a physician who, despite
being a beneficiary of 200 years of medical research,
equates all research with unlawful behavior such as
plagiarism?

Moreover, how alarming is it that a person who has
published some writings of his own thinks that it is
as normal to plagiarize as it is to engage in
research?

Who would trust what such an author publishes?

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-21 05:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Gilbert,

I will ignore your innuendo, and address only the
issue of plagiarism. What is your definition of
plagiarism? The standard one that I know is stealing
of published material from others and claiming it as
your own.

Regarding the rest, I request you to answer a few
questions that were raised by it.
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
I am surprised that you have not heard / read of
this idiom under discussion (see below).
Are you now claiming that the comments in your
previous post were some kind of an idiom? Do you agree
with what this "idiom" said?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
But I will be nice and not follow your example and
find reasons for your oversight (being polite).
Is purveying "idioms" equating plagiarism with
research in public forums being polite to those who
are engaged in research, according to you?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
It is only an insecure person with little in
accomplishments that would waste their time looking
for who is doing what to whom. For me I have more
important things to work and write on.
Are you now trying to be polite to people who have not
accomplished as much or as little as you have?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
As I have shown on Goanet, many have the wrong facts
or impressions, from their single (or should I say
the plagiarized) source.
If someone has cited a source, regardless of whether
it is single or multiple, according to the standard
definition, it is not plagiarism. It appears that you
have a separate definition of your own. What is it?

Cheers,

Santosh
Mervyn Lobo
2007-03-21 23:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased.
Because that further expands the message / concepts
that I want to spread. My goal of writing a
scientific paper (say on breast cancer), is not for
self-aggrandizement. It is to help breast cancer
patients. So anything that helps in spreading the
info and improving the treatment (that is being
suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit or not.
GL,
I spotted the following quote in today's, "The Globe
and Mail."

?What better way to prove that you understand a
subject than to make money out of it?
-Harold Rosenburg-

Mervyn3.0







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-22 04:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Frederick,

As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?

Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
available on the internet, as it should be:
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/

Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"
......................
Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery.
If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I
would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please
note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea
or information".
....................................
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-19 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism.
Copy from multiple sources and it is research.
I am surprised that an educated man is confused about
the difference between plagiarism and research. If it
is mere confusion or ignorance then one can fault the
type of education one has received at home or at the
primary school level. But if the apparent moral
equivalence between borderline criminal activity and
one of the noblest forms of human endeavor, stated
above, stems from cynicism, then such an assertion and
mindset should be greeted with the utmost condemnation
from those who are hoping that our children be better
educated.

What kind of a role model is a physician who, despite
being a beneficiary of 200 years of medical research,
equates all research with unlawful behavior such as
plagiarism?

Moreover, how alarming is it that a person who has
published some writings of his own thinks that it is
as normal to plagiarize as it is to engage in
research?

Who would trust what such an author publishes?

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-21 05:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Gilbert,

I will ignore your innuendo, and address only the
issue of plagiarism. What is your definition of
plagiarism? The standard one that I know is stealing
of published material from others and claiming it as
your own.

Regarding the rest, I request you to answer a few
questions that were raised by it.
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
I am surprised that you have not heard / read of
this idiom under discussion (see below).
Are you now claiming that the comments in your
previous post were some kind of an idiom? Do you agree
with what this "idiom" said?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
But I will be nice and not follow your example and
find reasons for your oversight (being polite).
Is purveying "idioms" equating plagiarism with
research in public forums being polite to those who
are engaged in research, according to you?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
It is only an insecure person with little in
accomplishments that would waste their time looking
for who is doing what to whom. For me I have more
important things to work and write on.
Are you now trying to be polite to people who have not
accomplished as much or as little as you have?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
As I have shown on Goanet, many have the wrong facts
or impressions, from their single (or should I say
the plagiarized) source.
If someone has cited a source, regardless of whether
it is single or multiple, according to the standard
definition, it is not plagiarism. It appears that you
have a separate definition of your own. What is it?

Cheers,

Santosh
Mervyn Lobo
2007-03-21 23:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased.
Because that further expands the message / concepts
that I want to spread. My goal of writing a
scientific paper (say on breast cancer), is not for
self-aggrandizement. It is to help breast cancer
patients. So anything that helps in spreading the
info and improving the treatment (that is being
suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit or not.
GL,
I spotted the following quote in today's, "The Globe
and Mail."

?What better way to prove that you understand a
subject than to make money out of it?
-Harold Rosenburg-

Mervyn3.0







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-22 04:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Frederick,

As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?

Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
available on the internet, as it should be:
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/

Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"
......................
Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery.
If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I
would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please
note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea
or information".
....................................
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-19 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
Copy from one source and it is plagiarism.
Copy from multiple sources and it is research.
I am surprised that an educated man is confused about
the difference between plagiarism and research. If it
is mere confusion or ignorance then one can fault the
type of education one has received at home or at the
primary school level. But if the apparent moral
equivalence between borderline criminal activity and
one of the noblest forms of human endeavor, stated
above, stems from cynicism, then such an assertion and
mindset should be greeted with the utmost condemnation
from those who are hoping that our children be better
educated.

What kind of a role model is a physician who, despite
being a beneficiary of 200 years of medical research,
equates all research with unlawful behavior such as
plagiarism?

Moreover, how alarming is it that a person who has
published some writings of his own thinks that it is
as normal to plagiarize as it is to engage in
research?

Who would trust what such an author publishes?

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-21 05:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Gilbert,

I will ignore your innuendo, and address only the
issue of plagiarism. What is your definition of
plagiarism? The standard one that I know is stealing
of published material from others and claiming it as
your own.

Regarding the rest, I request you to answer a few
questions that were raised by it.
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
I am surprised that you have not heard / read of
this idiom under discussion (see below).
Are you now claiming that the comments in your
previous post were some kind of an idiom? Do you agree
with what this "idiom" said?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
But I will be nice and not follow your example and
find reasons for your oversight (being polite).
Is purveying "idioms" equating plagiarism with
research in public forums being polite to those who
are engaged in research, according to you?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
It is only an insecure person with little in
accomplishments that would waste their time looking
for who is doing what to whom. For me I have more
important things to work and write on.
Are you now trying to be polite to people who have not
accomplished as much or as little as you have?
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
As I have shown on Goanet, many have the wrong facts
or impressions, from their single (or should I say
the plagiarized) source.
If someone has cited a source, regardless of whether
it is single or multiple, according to the standard
definition, it is not plagiarism. It appears that you
have a separate definition of your own. What is it?

Cheers,

Santosh
Mervyn Lobo
2007-03-21 23:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Lawrence
If somebody copies MY work, I will be very pleased.
Because that further expands the message / concepts
that I want to spread. My goal of writing a
scientific paper (say on breast cancer), is not for
self-aggrandizement. It is to help breast cancer
patients. So anything that helps in spreading the
info and improving the treatment (that is being
suggested) is welcome - whether I get credit or not.
GL,
I spotted the following quote in today's, "The Globe
and Mail."

?What better way to prove that you understand a
subject than to make money out of it?
-Harold Rosenburg-

Mervyn3.0







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Santosh Helekar
2007-03-22 04:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Frederick,

As a writer what are your responsibilities towards
your readers? Do you feel obliged to tell them that
what you copied and pasted from Shakespeare is
actually written by him?

Here is the entirety of Shakespeare's works freely
available on the internet, as it should be:
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/

Would you now copy Hamlet and publish it under your
own name in Goa as Amcho Shet? Neither Shakespeare nor
MIT would sue you.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"
......................
Imitation, they say, is the best form of flattery.
If someone quoted
large sections of my work, without credit or with, I
would feel
flattered that my ideas are worth echoing! Please
note that copyright
refers only to a "particular expression of an idea
or information".
....................................
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