Discussion:
[Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar!
Radhakrishnan Nair
2008-01-24 06:13:32 UTC
Permalink
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity and taking a pot shot on his
surname. It was remiss of me to post without checking the facts and I
sincerely apologise for the hurt caused to him. I would never have
dared to make such a comment if I had an inkling that it was a real
name.

I also thank all Goanetters who pointed out the indiscretion on my
part. Really sorry for that!

Regards to all.

RKN
Carvalho
2008-01-24 15:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand
Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity
-----------------------------------

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma



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colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-01-24 18:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Selma Carvalho wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP coterie is out in
full force to pillory him. As far as I'm concerned the Nair, Sen
Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly more
broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.


Dear Selma,

I too applaud RKN for his open apology. It does take a man or a woman
to acknowledge an error.

However, I do not applaud him for his original post on the matter.
There (perhaps unintended) ridicule of the surname was not called for.

I also believe that RKN does sometimes shoot from the hip. We all need
to take a deep breath before letting go of stuff which can embarrass
us because we have not bothered to know or to research .....but we
assumed ...that we know anyhow.

I invite you provide your reasoning behind your statement that "Nair,
Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together" [the caveat re Santoshbab having been noted].

Remember now .... we ALL are "kars" or "cars" too i.e.
Goemcars/Goemkars. Are you suggesting that Non-Goemcars make more
sense about Goa and Goans than Goemcars?

Isn't that the Genesis of the problem that we Goans are facing at this moment?

sincerely

jc

BTW: I note that Anandbab (like Santoshbab) is a Neurologist. I would
like to advise that a Neurologist ...is NOT a Logger from Neura (;-)

when time permits, please read this 2002 article:
The Tale of Two Rivers http://www.colaco.net/1/rivers.htm
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-01-24 18:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Selma Carvalho wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP coterie is out in
full force to pillory him. As far as I'm concerned the Nair, Sen
Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly more
broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.


Dear Selma,

I too applaud RKN for his open apology. It does take a man or a woman
to acknowledge an error.

However, I do not applaud him for his original post on the matter.
There (perhaps unintended) ridicule of the surname was not called for.

I also believe that RKN does sometimes shoot from the hip. We all need
to take a deep breath before letting go of stuff which can embarrass
us because we have not bothered to know or to research .....but we
assumed ...that we know anyhow.

I invite you provide your reasoning behind your statement that "Nair,
Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together" [the caveat re Santoshbab having been noted].

Remember now .... we ALL are "kars" or "cars" too i.e.
Goemcars/Goemkars. Are you suggesting that Non-Goemcars make more
sense about Goa and Goans than Goemcars?

Isn't that the Genesis of the problem that we Goans are facing at this moment?

sincerely

jc

BTW: I note that Anandbab (like Santoshbab) is a Neurologist. I would
like to advise that a Neurologist ...is NOT a Logger from Neura (;-)

when time permits, please read this 2002 article:
The Tale of Two Rivers http://www.colaco.net/1/rivers.htm
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-01-24 18:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Selma Carvalho wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP coterie is out in
full force to pillory him. As far as I'm concerned the Nair, Sen
Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly more
broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.


Dear Selma,

I too applaud RKN for his open apology. It does take a man or a woman
to acknowledge an error.

However, I do not applaud him for his original post on the matter.
There (perhaps unintended) ridicule of the surname was not called for.

I also believe that RKN does sometimes shoot from the hip. We all need
to take a deep breath before letting go of stuff which can embarrass
us because we have not bothered to know or to research .....but we
assumed ...that we know anyhow.

I invite you provide your reasoning behind your statement that "Nair,
Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together" [the caveat re Santoshbab having been noted].

Remember now .... we ALL are "kars" or "cars" too i.e.
Goemcars/Goemkars. Are you suggesting that Non-Goemcars make more
sense about Goa and Goans than Goemcars?

Isn't that the Genesis of the problem that we Goans are facing at this moment?

sincerely

jc

BTW: I note that Anandbab (like Santoshbab) is a Neurologist. I would
like to advise that a Neurologist ...is NOT a Logger from Neura (;-)

when time permits, please read this 2002 article:
The Tale of Two Rivers http://www.colaco.net/1/rivers.htm
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-01-24 18:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Selma Carvalho wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP coterie is out in
full force to pillory him. As far as I'm concerned the Nair, Sen
Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly more
broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.


Dear Selma,

I too applaud RKN for his open apology. It does take a man or a woman
to acknowledge an error.

However, I do not applaud him for his original post on the matter.
There (perhaps unintended) ridicule of the surname was not called for.

I also believe that RKN does sometimes shoot from the hip. We all need
to take a deep breath before letting go of stuff which can embarrass
us because we have not bothered to know or to research .....but we
assumed ...that we know anyhow.

I invite you provide your reasoning behind your statement that "Nair,
Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together" [the caveat re Santoshbab having been noted].

Remember now .... we ALL are "kars" or "cars" too i.e.
Goemcars/Goemkars. Are you suggesting that Non-Goemcars make more
sense about Goa and Goans than Goemcars?

Isn't that the Genesis of the problem that we Goans are facing at this moment?

sincerely

jc

BTW: I note that Anandbab (like Santoshbab) is a Neurologist. I would
like to advise that a Neurologist ...is NOT a Logger from Neura (;-)

when time permits, please read this 2002 article:
The Tale of Two Rivers http://www.colaco.net/1/rivers.htm
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-01-24 18:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Selma Carvalho wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP coterie is out in
full force to pillory him. As far as I'm concerned the Nair, Sen
Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly more
broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.


Dear Selma,

I too applaud RKN for his open apology. It does take a man or a woman
to acknowledge an error.

However, I do not applaud him for his original post on the matter.
There (perhaps unintended) ridicule of the surname was not called for.

I also believe that RKN does sometimes shoot from the hip. We all need
to take a deep breath before letting go of stuff which can embarrass
us because we have not bothered to know or to research .....but we
assumed ...that we know anyhow.

I invite you provide your reasoning behind your statement that "Nair,
Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together" [the caveat re Santoshbab having been noted].

Remember now .... we ALL are "kars" or "cars" too i.e.
Goemcars/Goemkars. Are you suggesting that Non-Goemcars make more
sense about Goa and Goans than Goemcars?

Isn't that the Genesis of the problem that we Goans are facing at this moment?

sincerely

jc

BTW: I note that Anandbab (like Santoshbab) is a Neurologist. I would
like to advise that a Neurologist ...is NOT a Logger from Neura (;-)

when time permits, please read this 2002 article:
The Tale of Two Rivers http://www.colaco.net/1/rivers.htm
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-01-24 18:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Selma Carvalho wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP coterie is out in
full force to pillory him. As far as I'm concerned the Nair, Sen
Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly more
broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.


Dear Selma,

I too applaud RKN for his open apology. It does take a man or a woman
to acknowledge an error.

However, I do not applaud him for his original post on the matter.
There (perhaps unintended) ridicule of the surname was not called for.

I also believe that RKN does sometimes shoot from the hip. We all need
to take a deep breath before letting go of stuff which can embarrass
us because we have not bothered to know or to research .....but we
assumed ...that we know anyhow.

I invite you provide your reasoning behind your statement that "Nair,
Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together" [the caveat re Santoshbab having been noted].

Remember now .... we ALL are "kars" or "cars" too i.e.
Goemcars/Goemkars. Are you suggesting that Non-Goemcars make more
sense about Goa and Goans than Goemcars?

Isn't that the Genesis of the problem that we Goans are facing at this moment?

sincerely

jc

BTW: I note that Anandbab (like Santoshbab) is a Neurologist. I would
like to advise that a Neurologist ...is NOT a Logger from Neura (;-)

when time permits, please read this 2002 article:
The Tale of Two Rivers http://www.colaco.net/1/rivers.htm
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-01-24 18:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Selma Carvalho wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP coterie is out in
full force to pillory him. As far as I'm concerned the Nair, Sen
Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly more
broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.


Dear Selma,

I too applaud RKN for his open apology. It does take a man or a woman
to acknowledge an error.

However, I do not applaud him for his original post on the matter.
There (perhaps unintended) ridicule of the surname was not called for.

I also believe that RKN does sometimes shoot from the hip. We all need
to take a deep breath before letting go of stuff which can embarrass
us because we have not bothered to know or to research .....but we
assumed ...that we know anyhow.

I invite you provide your reasoning behind your statement that "Nair,
Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this list make far more sense than all the
"Kars" put together" [the caveat re Santoshbab having been noted].

Remember now .... we ALL are "kars" or "cars" too i.e.
Goemcars/Goemkars. Are you suggesting that Non-Goemcars make more
sense about Goa and Goans than Goemcars?

Isn't that the Genesis of the problem that we Goans are facing at this moment?

sincerely

jc

BTW: I note that Anandbab (like Santoshbab) is a Neurologist. I would
like to advise that a Neurologist ...is NOT a Logger from Neura (;-)

when time permits, please read this 2002 article:
The Tale of Two Rivers http://www.colaco.net/1/rivers.htm
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-24 23:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma

RESPONSE:

Good joke Ms/Mrs Selma, "an honest mistake"
Atleast you said he made a mistake. Mistakes are not honest or dishonest,
they are mistakes whoever do it Goan or South Indian.
It seems you got a lot of love to such BROAD MINDED ones who TRY to make
MISTAKES and then honestly admit them. Good going.
Onething you said correctly Kars(Goenkars) of Goa should learn something.
But I would add to it saying Kars of Goa should learn everything from these
"fairly more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians" including
poderponn. As most of these people have deeply grounded their roots in all
traditional businesses of Kars(Goenkars).
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising mistakes done by
Non-Goans.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
Carvalho
2008-01-25 14:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kamalaksh Chari
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising
mistakes done by
Non-Goans.
Keep it up.
Regards,
Kamalaksh
------------------------------------
Oh dearie me!

There's a common misconception in India, that it is
Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the
rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for
autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by
the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and
the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a
"madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,
that misconception has been shattered, alongwith
several other misconceptions such as Goa is the
epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.

Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel
in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having
spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to
earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means
having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,
religions and ideologies.

I support and like a lot of people on this list. I
like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like
FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much
as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like
Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the
Catholic Church ;-)

Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it
is possible to like people across cultures, religions,
states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible
to respect the person even if one does not agree with
their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,
what is it that makes us fundamentally human?

selma


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anand virgincar
2008-01-26 07:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari <kamlaksh at gmail.com> wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Catholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
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Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोंया
2008-01-26 18:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand's posts raise interesting issues....
Post by anand virgincar
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
How is your religious beliefs relevant here? Should you at all come
across as apologetic about being a "terribly devout Hindu"? In any
case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Hinduism is primarily
about dietary habits and such superficialities.

In fact, I am suspicious about people who claim they are not religious
and yet show a very high intolerant streak towards The Other. For that
matter, I would be far happier to deal with a religious man (of any
religion) who has tolerance to someone who subscribes to a different
religious ideology.

Some examples: Gandhi was a very religious man, but his religion never
came in the way of him building bridges with the Indian Muslim and
doing his best to understand the latter. Jinnah and Advani both term
themselves non-religious, and we know the levels of their
intolerance/communalism. Someone might call this nationalism, but I
wouldn't!

Others who were not very religious were very intolerant too. Adolf
Hitler, while getting the support of the hierarchy of the Church,
wasn't a very religious man personally, and perhaps this allowed him
to slaughter millions of Jews without too much of a problem of
conscience.

Being religious is not a negative thing in itself. It depends on
whether those views help one to be a better person or otherwise.

I have nothing against the followers of any religion; I have
everything against ideologies of hate that (mis)use religion for
political purposes, and threaten to create volcanoes of bitterness
while doing so. Whichever religion these base their politics on (and
we know, from history, that no religion has a monopoly over
bigotry... every religion and non-religious ideology has been used,
misused and abused).
Post by anand virgincar
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
The first part of the above statement reminds me of another famous
statement by L K Advani.

When visiting Goa once, he pompously declared, "I learnt my lessons of
tolerance at St Patrick's (the famous school) in Karachi." He said
this at one of the functions at Agnelganv, Verna, if I recall right.

Three months later, he presided over the demolition of the Babri
Masjid at Ayodhya!

Which brings me to a related point... at the Goanetters meet, I was a
little surprised to learn that Rajan Parrikar was a student of Don
Bosco's Panjim. And a couple of years earlier, I was equally surprised
to learn that Manohar Parrikar had been an alumni of St Xavier's
Mapusa.

So, what's it in the Catholic institutions that disallows them from
creating more liberal and forward-looking people, specially in a place
like Goa? (It might work differently in other parts of India, as my
friend Rahul Shrivastava was arguing the other day.)

Till I was about 17 myself, I used to be fairly bigoted in my
worldview. Perhaps I should not blame the institutions I studied in,
but that's how it was. I think Catholic institutions in Goa, with
their emphasis on discipline and order, could be creating a mind-set
that is suited to the 18th century, not the 21st.

Some of our educationists took pride in adopting near-Fascist
approaches, and themselves shared a rather conservative approach that
carried traces of a hangover from colonial times (which lasted as
early as till the early 1960s in Goa!)

Goa's Catholic institutions (specially the better-off ones) were
arrogant enough to create enclaves where the "non-Catholics" (as they
were condescendingly referred to) were probably treated like the
second-rate citizens that the Nazis or the Hindutva lobby would like
others to become in their scheme of things.

It's wholly another matter that the boot is on the other foot today,
After the 1991 'medium of instruction' policies put in place by
Shashikala Kakodkar and the Alemao-Barbosa PDF government, the
Catholic middle classes have amputated themselves from
Catholic-schools, opening up the latter to a wider base of students,
thus making them more reflective of the demographic mix of Goa
(including migrant kids of the poor, but not sufficient) while the
government-run shalas are in a state of collapse.

The focus-on-discipline might churn out good young Fascists, but I
doubt it would create thinking men and women who have their hearts in
their right place, can be concerned about those "less fortunate then
them" (to use a Catholic turn of phrase popular in our times) and help
others to come up in life.

It was only when I reached Dempo College of Commerce and Economics in
my first year of college that I didn't feel treated like a kid, and
though the lecturers didn't mind whether we were in class or sat
outside, that simply forced us to voluntarily become more responsible
in our attitudes.

Anyway, to wind up, I don't think that being religious is a minus. And
I think that our commitment to values like secularism (the only
concept on which a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-caste country
like India can survive) come merely from the schools we went to, or
the friends we have.

One of my pet theories (it's just a theory, wholly unsubstantiable, so
don't flame me for it) is that the Catholics in Goa are arrogant
enough to behave like a majority, and the Hindus of Goa are among the
few that behave like an insecure minority! (I also concur with Selma's
views that Hindus from outside Goa are far more tolerant, but probably
our Hindu friends might say the same thing about Christians from other
parts of India. Perhaps it has more to do with people turning rivals
when they are competing for the same fish in the sea.)

Just a few random thoughts, not meant to be personally offensive to anyone. FN
--
Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org Ph +91-832-2409490
The Goa books blog: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Goa1556 (alt.publishing.goa): http://goa1556.goa-india.org
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोंया
2008-01-26 18:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand's posts raise interesting issues....
Post by anand virgincar
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
How is your religious beliefs relevant here? Should you at all come
across as apologetic about being a "terribly devout Hindu"? In any
case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Hinduism is primarily
about dietary habits and such superficialities.

In fact, I am suspicious about people who claim they are not religious
and yet show a very high intolerant streak towards The Other. For that
matter, I would be far happier to deal with a religious man (of any
religion) who has tolerance to someone who subscribes to a different
religious ideology.

Some examples: Gandhi was a very religious man, but his religion never
came in the way of him building bridges with the Indian Muslim and
doing his best to understand the latter. Jinnah and Advani both term
themselves non-religious, and we know the levels of their
intolerance/communalism. Someone might call this nationalism, but I
wouldn't!

Others who were not very religious were very intolerant too. Adolf
Hitler, while getting the support of the hierarchy of the Church,
wasn't a very religious man personally, and perhaps this allowed him
to slaughter millions of Jews without too much of a problem of
conscience.

Being religious is not a negative thing in itself. It depends on
whether those views help one to be a better person or otherwise.

I have nothing against the followers of any religion; I have
everything against ideologies of hate that (mis)use religion for
political purposes, and threaten to create volcanoes of bitterness
while doing so. Whichever religion these base their politics on (and
we know, from history, that no religion has a monopoly over
bigotry... every religion and non-religious ideology has been used,
misused and abused).
Post by anand virgincar
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
The first part of the above statement reminds me of another famous
statement by L K Advani.

When visiting Goa once, he pompously declared, "I learnt my lessons of
tolerance at St Patrick's (the famous school) in Karachi." He said
this at one of the functions at Agnelganv, Verna, if I recall right.

Three months later, he presided over the demolition of the Babri
Masjid at Ayodhya!

Which brings me to a related point... at the Goanetters meet, I was a
little surprised to learn that Rajan Parrikar was a student of Don
Bosco's Panjim. And a couple of years earlier, I was equally surprised
to learn that Manohar Parrikar had been an alumni of St Xavier's
Mapusa.

So, what's it in the Catholic institutions that disallows them from
creating more liberal and forward-looking people, specially in a place
like Goa? (It might work differently in other parts of India, as my
friend Rahul Shrivastava was arguing the other day.)

Till I was about 17 myself, I used to be fairly bigoted in my
worldview. Perhaps I should not blame the institutions I studied in,
but that's how it was. I think Catholic institutions in Goa, with
their emphasis on discipline and order, could be creating a mind-set
that is suited to the 18th century, not the 21st.

Some of our educationists took pride in adopting near-Fascist
approaches, and themselves shared a rather conservative approach that
carried traces of a hangover from colonial times (which lasted as
early as till the early 1960s in Goa!)

Goa's Catholic institutions (specially the better-off ones) were
arrogant enough to create enclaves where the "non-Catholics" (as they
were condescendingly referred to) were probably treated like the
second-rate citizens that the Nazis or the Hindutva lobby would like
others to become in their scheme of things.

It's wholly another matter that the boot is on the other foot today,
After the 1991 'medium of instruction' policies put in place by
Shashikala Kakodkar and the Alemao-Barbosa PDF government, the
Catholic middle classes have amputated themselves from
Catholic-schools, opening up the latter to a wider base of students,
thus making them more reflective of the demographic mix of Goa
(including migrant kids of the poor, but not sufficient) while the
government-run shalas are in a state of collapse.

The focus-on-discipline might churn out good young Fascists, but I
doubt it would create thinking men and women who have their hearts in
their right place, can be concerned about those "less fortunate then
them" (to use a Catholic turn of phrase popular in our times) and help
others to come up in life.

It was only when I reached Dempo College of Commerce and Economics in
my first year of college that I didn't feel treated like a kid, and
though the lecturers didn't mind whether we were in class or sat
outside, that simply forced us to voluntarily become more responsible
in our attitudes.

Anyway, to wind up, I don't think that being religious is a minus. And
I think that our commitment to values like secularism (the only
concept on which a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-caste country
like India can survive) come merely from the schools we went to, or
the friends we have.

One of my pet theories (it's just a theory, wholly unsubstantiable, so
don't flame me for it) is that the Catholics in Goa are arrogant
enough to behave like a majority, and the Hindus of Goa are among the
few that behave like an insecure minority! (I also concur with Selma's
views that Hindus from outside Goa are far more tolerant, but probably
our Hindu friends might say the same thing about Christians from other
parts of India. Perhaps it has more to do with people turning rivals
when they are competing for the same fish in the sea.)

Just a few random thoughts, not meant to be personally offensive to anyone. FN
--
Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org Ph +91-832-2409490
The Goa books blog: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Goa1556 (alt.publishing.goa): http://goa1556.goa-india.org
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोंया
2008-01-26 18:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand's posts raise interesting issues....
Post by anand virgincar
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
How is your religious beliefs relevant here? Should you at all come
across as apologetic about being a "terribly devout Hindu"? In any
case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Hinduism is primarily
about dietary habits and such superficialities.

In fact, I am suspicious about people who claim they are not religious
and yet show a very high intolerant streak towards The Other. For that
matter, I would be far happier to deal with a religious man (of any
religion) who has tolerance to someone who subscribes to a different
religious ideology.

Some examples: Gandhi was a very religious man, but his religion never
came in the way of him building bridges with the Indian Muslim and
doing his best to understand the latter. Jinnah and Advani both term
themselves non-religious, and we know the levels of their
intolerance/communalism. Someone might call this nationalism, but I
wouldn't!

Others who were not very religious were very intolerant too. Adolf
Hitler, while getting the support of the hierarchy of the Church,
wasn't a very religious man personally, and perhaps this allowed him
to slaughter millions of Jews without too much of a problem of
conscience.

Being religious is not a negative thing in itself. It depends on
whether those views help one to be a better person or otherwise.

I have nothing against the followers of any religion; I have
everything against ideologies of hate that (mis)use religion for
political purposes, and threaten to create volcanoes of bitterness
while doing so. Whichever religion these base their politics on (and
we know, from history, that no religion has a monopoly over
bigotry... every religion and non-religious ideology has been used,
misused and abused).
Post by anand virgincar
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
The first part of the above statement reminds me of another famous
statement by L K Advani.

When visiting Goa once, he pompously declared, "I learnt my lessons of
tolerance at St Patrick's (the famous school) in Karachi." He said
this at one of the functions at Agnelganv, Verna, if I recall right.

Three months later, he presided over the demolition of the Babri
Masjid at Ayodhya!

Which brings me to a related point... at the Goanetters meet, I was a
little surprised to learn that Rajan Parrikar was a student of Don
Bosco's Panjim. And a couple of years earlier, I was equally surprised
to learn that Manohar Parrikar had been an alumni of St Xavier's
Mapusa.

So, what's it in the Catholic institutions that disallows them from
creating more liberal and forward-looking people, specially in a place
like Goa? (It might work differently in other parts of India, as my
friend Rahul Shrivastava was arguing the other day.)

Till I was about 17 myself, I used to be fairly bigoted in my
worldview. Perhaps I should not blame the institutions I studied in,
but that's how it was. I think Catholic institutions in Goa, with
their emphasis on discipline and order, could be creating a mind-set
that is suited to the 18th century, not the 21st.

Some of our educationists took pride in adopting near-Fascist
approaches, and themselves shared a rather conservative approach that
carried traces of a hangover from colonial times (which lasted as
early as till the early 1960s in Goa!)

Goa's Catholic institutions (specially the better-off ones) were
arrogant enough to create enclaves where the "non-Catholics" (as they
were condescendingly referred to) were probably treated like the
second-rate citizens that the Nazis or the Hindutva lobby would like
others to become in their scheme of things.

It's wholly another matter that the boot is on the other foot today,
After the 1991 'medium of instruction' policies put in place by
Shashikala Kakodkar and the Alemao-Barbosa PDF government, the
Catholic middle classes have amputated themselves from
Catholic-schools, opening up the latter to a wider base of students,
thus making them more reflective of the demographic mix of Goa
(including migrant kids of the poor, but not sufficient) while the
government-run shalas are in a state of collapse.

The focus-on-discipline might churn out good young Fascists, but I
doubt it would create thinking men and women who have their hearts in
their right place, can be concerned about those "less fortunate then
them" (to use a Catholic turn of phrase popular in our times) and help
others to come up in life.

It was only when I reached Dempo College of Commerce and Economics in
my first year of college that I didn't feel treated like a kid, and
though the lecturers didn't mind whether we were in class or sat
outside, that simply forced us to voluntarily become more responsible
in our attitudes.

Anyway, to wind up, I don't think that being religious is a minus. And
I think that our commitment to values like secularism (the only
concept on which a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-caste country
like India can survive) come merely from the schools we went to, or
the friends we have.

One of my pet theories (it's just a theory, wholly unsubstantiable, so
don't flame me for it) is that the Catholics in Goa are arrogant
enough to behave like a majority, and the Hindus of Goa are among the
few that behave like an insecure minority! (I also concur with Selma's
views that Hindus from outside Goa are far more tolerant, but probably
our Hindu friends might say the same thing about Christians from other
parts of India. Perhaps it has more to do with people turning rivals
when they are competing for the same fish in the sea.)

Just a few random thoughts, not meant to be personally offensive to anyone. FN
--
Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org Ph +91-832-2409490
The Goa books blog: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Goa1556 (alt.publishing.goa): http://goa1556.goa-india.org
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोंया
2008-01-26 18:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand's posts raise interesting issues....
Post by anand virgincar
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
How is your religious beliefs relevant here? Should you at all come
across as apologetic about being a "terribly devout Hindu"? In any
case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Hinduism is primarily
about dietary habits and such superficialities.

In fact, I am suspicious about people who claim they are not religious
and yet show a very high intolerant streak towards The Other. For that
matter, I would be far happier to deal with a religious man (of any
religion) who has tolerance to someone who subscribes to a different
religious ideology.

Some examples: Gandhi was a very religious man, but his religion never
came in the way of him building bridges with the Indian Muslim and
doing his best to understand the latter. Jinnah and Advani both term
themselves non-religious, and we know the levels of their
intolerance/communalism. Someone might call this nationalism, but I
wouldn't!

Others who were not very religious were very intolerant too. Adolf
Hitler, while getting the support of the hierarchy of the Church,
wasn't a very religious man personally, and perhaps this allowed him
to slaughter millions of Jews without too much of a problem of
conscience.

Being religious is not a negative thing in itself. It depends on
whether those views help one to be a better person or otherwise.

I have nothing against the followers of any religion; I have
everything against ideologies of hate that (mis)use religion for
political purposes, and threaten to create volcanoes of bitterness
while doing so. Whichever religion these base their politics on (and
we know, from history, that no religion has a monopoly over
bigotry... every religion and non-religious ideology has been used,
misused and abused).
Post by anand virgincar
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
The first part of the above statement reminds me of another famous
statement by L K Advani.

When visiting Goa once, he pompously declared, "I learnt my lessons of
tolerance at St Patrick's (the famous school) in Karachi." He said
this at one of the functions at Agnelganv, Verna, if I recall right.

Three months later, he presided over the demolition of the Babri
Masjid at Ayodhya!

Which brings me to a related point... at the Goanetters meet, I was a
little surprised to learn that Rajan Parrikar was a student of Don
Bosco's Panjim. And a couple of years earlier, I was equally surprised
to learn that Manohar Parrikar had been an alumni of St Xavier's
Mapusa.

So, what's it in the Catholic institutions that disallows them from
creating more liberal and forward-looking people, specially in a place
like Goa? (It might work differently in other parts of India, as my
friend Rahul Shrivastava was arguing the other day.)

Till I was about 17 myself, I used to be fairly bigoted in my
worldview. Perhaps I should not blame the institutions I studied in,
but that's how it was. I think Catholic institutions in Goa, with
their emphasis on discipline and order, could be creating a mind-set
that is suited to the 18th century, not the 21st.

Some of our educationists took pride in adopting near-Fascist
approaches, and themselves shared a rather conservative approach that
carried traces of a hangover from colonial times (which lasted as
early as till the early 1960s in Goa!)

Goa's Catholic institutions (specially the better-off ones) were
arrogant enough to create enclaves where the "non-Catholics" (as they
were condescendingly referred to) were probably treated like the
second-rate citizens that the Nazis or the Hindutva lobby would like
others to become in their scheme of things.

It's wholly another matter that the boot is on the other foot today,
After the 1991 'medium of instruction' policies put in place by
Shashikala Kakodkar and the Alemao-Barbosa PDF government, the
Catholic middle classes have amputated themselves from
Catholic-schools, opening up the latter to a wider base of students,
thus making them more reflective of the demographic mix of Goa
(including migrant kids of the poor, but not sufficient) while the
government-run shalas are in a state of collapse.

The focus-on-discipline might churn out good young Fascists, but I
doubt it would create thinking men and women who have their hearts in
their right place, can be concerned about those "less fortunate then
them" (to use a Catholic turn of phrase popular in our times) and help
others to come up in life.

It was only when I reached Dempo College of Commerce and Economics in
my first year of college that I didn't feel treated like a kid, and
though the lecturers didn't mind whether we were in class or sat
outside, that simply forced us to voluntarily become more responsible
in our attitudes.

Anyway, to wind up, I don't think that being religious is a minus. And
I think that our commitment to values like secularism (the only
concept on which a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-caste country
like India can survive) come merely from the schools we went to, or
the friends we have.

One of my pet theories (it's just a theory, wholly unsubstantiable, so
don't flame me for it) is that the Catholics in Goa are arrogant
enough to behave like a majority, and the Hindus of Goa are among the
few that behave like an insecure minority! (I also concur with Selma's
views that Hindus from outside Goa are far more tolerant, but probably
our Hindu friends might say the same thing about Christians from other
parts of India. Perhaps it has more to do with people turning rivals
when they are competing for the same fish in the sea.)

Just a few random thoughts, not meant to be personally offensive to anyone. FN
--
Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org Ph +91-832-2409490
The Goa books blog: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Goa1556 (alt.publishing.goa): http://goa1556.goa-india.org
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोंया
2008-01-26 18:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand's posts raise interesting issues....
Post by anand virgincar
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
How is your religious beliefs relevant here? Should you at all come
across as apologetic about being a "terribly devout Hindu"? In any
case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Hinduism is primarily
about dietary habits and such superficialities.

In fact, I am suspicious about people who claim they are not religious
and yet show a very high intolerant streak towards The Other. For that
matter, I would be far happier to deal with a religious man (of any
religion) who has tolerance to someone who subscribes to a different
religious ideology.

Some examples: Gandhi was a very religious man, but his religion never
came in the way of him building bridges with the Indian Muslim and
doing his best to understand the latter. Jinnah and Advani both term
themselves non-religious, and we know the levels of their
intolerance/communalism. Someone might call this nationalism, but I
wouldn't!

Others who were not very religious were very intolerant too. Adolf
Hitler, while getting the support of the hierarchy of the Church,
wasn't a very religious man personally, and perhaps this allowed him
to slaughter millions of Jews without too much of a problem of
conscience.

Being religious is not a negative thing in itself. It depends on
whether those views help one to be a better person or otherwise.

I have nothing against the followers of any religion; I have
everything against ideologies of hate that (mis)use religion for
political purposes, and threaten to create volcanoes of bitterness
while doing so. Whichever religion these base their politics on (and
we know, from history, that no religion has a monopoly over
bigotry... every religion and non-religious ideology has been used,
misused and abused).
Post by anand virgincar
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
The first part of the above statement reminds me of another famous
statement by L K Advani.

When visiting Goa once, he pompously declared, "I learnt my lessons of
tolerance at St Patrick's (the famous school) in Karachi." He said
this at one of the functions at Agnelganv, Verna, if I recall right.

Three months later, he presided over the demolition of the Babri
Masjid at Ayodhya!

Which brings me to a related point... at the Goanetters meet, I was a
little surprised to learn that Rajan Parrikar was a student of Don
Bosco's Panjim. And a couple of years earlier, I was equally surprised
to learn that Manohar Parrikar had been an alumni of St Xavier's
Mapusa.

So, what's it in the Catholic institutions that disallows them from
creating more liberal and forward-looking people, specially in a place
like Goa? (It might work differently in other parts of India, as my
friend Rahul Shrivastava was arguing the other day.)

Till I was about 17 myself, I used to be fairly bigoted in my
worldview. Perhaps I should not blame the institutions I studied in,
but that's how it was. I think Catholic institutions in Goa, with
their emphasis on discipline and order, could be creating a mind-set
that is suited to the 18th century, not the 21st.

Some of our educationists took pride in adopting near-Fascist
approaches, and themselves shared a rather conservative approach that
carried traces of a hangover from colonial times (which lasted as
early as till the early 1960s in Goa!)

Goa's Catholic institutions (specially the better-off ones) were
arrogant enough to create enclaves where the "non-Catholics" (as they
were condescendingly referred to) were probably treated like the
second-rate citizens that the Nazis or the Hindutva lobby would like
others to become in their scheme of things.

It's wholly another matter that the boot is on the other foot today,
After the 1991 'medium of instruction' policies put in place by
Shashikala Kakodkar and the Alemao-Barbosa PDF government, the
Catholic middle classes have amputated themselves from
Catholic-schools, opening up the latter to a wider base of students,
thus making them more reflective of the demographic mix of Goa
(including migrant kids of the poor, but not sufficient) while the
government-run shalas are in a state of collapse.

The focus-on-discipline might churn out good young Fascists, but I
doubt it would create thinking men and women who have their hearts in
their right place, can be concerned about those "less fortunate then
them" (to use a Catholic turn of phrase popular in our times) and help
others to come up in life.

It was only when I reached Dempo College of Commerce and Economics in
my first year of college that I didn't feel treated like a kid, and
though the lecturers didn't mind whether we were in class or sat
outside, that simply forced us to voluntarily become more responsible
in our attitudes.

Anyway, to wind up, I don't think that being religious is a minus. And
I think that our commitment to values like secularism (the only
concept on which a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-caste country
like India can survive) come merely from the schools we went to, or
the friends we have.

One of my pet theories (it's just a theory, wholly unsubstantiable, so
don't flame me for it) is that the Catholics in Goa are arrogant
enough to behave like a majority, and the Hindus of Goa are among the
few that behave like an insecure minority! (I also concur with Selma's
views that Hindus from outside Goa are far more tolerant, but probably
our Hindu friends might say the same thing about Christians from other
parts of India. Perhaps it has more to do with people turning rivals
when they are competing for the same fish in the sea.)

Just a few random thoughts, not meant to be personally offensive to anyone. FN
--
Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org Ph +91-832-2409490
The Goa books blog: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Goa1556 (alt.publishing.goa): http://goa1556.goa-india.org
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोंया
2008-01-26 18:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand's posts raise interesting issues....
Post by anand virgincar
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
How is your religious beliefs relevant here? Should you at all come
across as apologetic about being a "terribly devout Hindu"? In any
case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Hinduism is primarily
about dietary habits and such superficialities.

In fact, I am suspicious about people who claim they are not religious
and yet show a very high intolerant streak towards The Other. For that
matter, I would be far happier to deal with a religious man (of any
religion) who has tolerance to someone who subscribes to a different
religious ideology.

Some examples: Gandhi was a very religious man, but his religion never
came in the way of him building bridges with the Indian Muslim and
doing his best to understand the latter. Jinnah and Advani both term
themselves non-religious, and we know the levels of their
intolerance/communalism. Someone might call this nationalism, but I
wouldn't!

Others who were not very religious were very intolerant too. Adolf
Hitler, while getting the support of the hierarchy of the Church,
wasn't a very religious man personally, and perhaps this allowed him
to slaughter millions of Jews without too much of a problem of
conscience.

Being religious is not a negative thing in itself. It depends on
whether those views help one to be a better person or otherwise.

I have nothing against the followers of any religion; I have
everything against ideologies of hate that (mis)use religion for
political purposes, and threaten to create volcanoes of bitterness
while doing so. Whichever religion these base their politics on (and
we know, from history, that no religion has a monopoly over
bigotry... every religion and non-religious ideology has been used,
misused and abused).
Post by anand virgincar
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
The first part of the above statement reminds me of another famous
statement by L K Advani.

When visiting Goa once, he pompously declared, "I learnt my lessons of
tolerance at St Patrick's (the famous school) in Karachi." He said
this at one of the functions at Agnelganv, Verna, if I recall right.

Three months later, he presided over the demolition of the Babri
Masjid at Ayodhya!

Which brings me to a related point... at the Goanetters meet, I was a
little surprised to learn that Rajan Parrikar was a student of Don
Bosco's Panjim. And a couple of years earlier, I was equally surprised
to learn that Manohar Parrikar had been an alumni of St Xavier's
Mapusa.

So, what's it in the Catholic institutions that disallows them from
creating more liberal and forward-looking people, specially in a place
like Goa? (It might work differently in other parts of India, as my
friend Rahul Shrivastava was arguing the other day.)

Till I was about 17 myself, I used to be fairly bigoted in my
worldview. Perhaps I should not blame the institutions I studied in,
but that's how it was. I think Catholic institutions in Goa, with
their emphasis on discipline and order, could be creating a mind-set
that is suited to the 18th century, not the 21st.

Some of our educationists took pride in adopting near-Fascist
approaches, and themselves shared a rather conservative approach that
carried traces of a hangover from colonial times (which lasted as
early as till the early 1960s in Goa!)

Goa's Catholic institutions (specially the better-off ones) were
arrogant enough to create enclaves where the "non-Catholics" (as they
were condescendingly referred to) were probably treated like the
second-rate citizens that the Nazis or the Hindutva lobby would like
others to become in their scheme of things.

It's wholly another matter that the boot is on the other foot today,
After the 1991 'medium of instruction' policies put in place by
Shashikala Kakodkar and the Alemao-Barbosa PDF government, the
Catholic middle classes have amputated themselves from
Catholic-schools, opening up the latter to a wider base of students,
thus making them more reflective of the demographic mix of Goa
(including migrant kids of the poor, but not sufficient) while the
government-run shalas are in a state of collapse.

The focus-on-discipline might churn out good young Fascists, but I
doubt it would create thinking men and women who have their hearts in
their right place, can be concerned about those "less fortunate then
them" (to use a Catholic turn of phrase popular in our times) and help
others to come up in life.

It was only when I reached Dempo College of Commerce and Economics in
my first year of college that I didn't feel treated like a kid, and
though the lecturers didn't mind whether we were in class or sat
outside, that simply forced us to voluntarily become more responsible
in our attitudes.

Anyway, to wind up, I don't think that being religious is a minus. And
I think that our commitment to values like secularism (the only
concept on which a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-caste country
like India can survive) come merely from the schools we went to, or
the friends we have.

One of my pet theories (it's just a theory, wholly unsubstantiable, so
don't flame me for it) is that the Catholics in Goa are arrogant
enough to behave like a majority, and the Hindus of Goa are among the
few that behave like an insecure minority! (I also concur with Selma's
views that Hindus from outside Goa are far more tolerant, but probably
our Hindu friends might say the same thing about Christians from other
parts of India. Perhaps it has more to do with people turning rivals
when they are competing for the same fish in the sea.)

Just a few random thoughts, not meant to be personally offensive to anyone. FN
--
Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org Ph +91-832-2409490
The Goa books blog: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Goa1556 (alt.publishing.goa): http://goa1556.goa-india.org
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोंया
2008-01-26 18:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand's posts raise interesting issues....
Post by anand virgincar
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
How is your religious beliefs relevant here? Should you at all come
across as apologetic about being a "terribly devout Hindu"? In any
case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Hinduism is primarily
about dietary habits and such superficialities.

In fact, I am suspicious about people who claim they are not religious
and yet show a very high intolerant streak towards The Other. For that
matter, I would be far happier to deal with a religious man (of any
religion) who has tolerance to someone who subscribes to a different
religious ideology.

Some examples: Gandhi was a very religious man, but his religion never
came in the way of him building bridges with the Indian Muslim and
doing his best to understand the latter. Jinnah and Advani both term
themselves non-religious, and we know the levels of their
intolerance/communalism. Someone might call this nationalism, but I
wouldn't!

Others who were not very religious were very intolerant too. Adolf
Hitler, while getting the support of the hierarchy of the Church,
wasn't a very religious man personally, and perhaps this allowed him
to slaughter millions of Jews without too much of a problem of
conscience.

Being religious is not a negative thing in itself. It depends on
whether those views help one to be a better person or otherwise.

I have nothing against the followers of any religion; I have
everything against ideologies of hate that (mis)use religion for
political purposes, and threaten to create volcanoes of bitterness
while doing so. Whichever religion these base their politics on (and
we know, from history, that no religion has a monopoly over
bigotry... every religion and non-religious ideology has been used,
misused and abused).
Post by anand virgincar
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
The first part of the above statement reminds me of another famous
statement by L K Advani.

When visiting Goa once, he pompously declared, "I learnt my lessons of
tolerance at St Patrick's (the famous school) in Karachi." He said
this at one of the functions at Agnelganv, Verna, if I recall right.

Three months later, he presided over the demolition of the Babri
Masjid at Ayodhya!

Which brings me to a related point... at the Goanetters meet, I was a
little surprised to learn that Rajan Parrikar was a student of Don
Bosco's Panjim. And a couple of years earlier, I was equally surprised
to learn that Manohar Parrikar had been an alumni of St Xavier's
Mapusa.

So, what's it in the Catholic institutions that disallows them from
creating more liberal and forward-looking people, specially in a place
like Goa? (It might work differently in other parts of India, as my
friend Rahul Shrivastava was arguing the other day.)

Till I was about 17 myself, I used to be fairly bigoted in my
worldview. Perhaps I should not blame the institutions I studied in,
but that's how it was. I think Catholic institutions in Goa, with
their emphasis on discipline and order, could be creating a mind-set
that is suited to the 18th century, not the 21st.

Some of our educationists took pride in adopting near-Fascist
approaches, and themselves shared a rather conservative approach that
carried traces of a hangover from colonial times (which lasted as
early as till the early 1960s in Goa!)

Goa's Catholic institutions (specially the better-off ones) were
arrogant enough to create enclaves where the "non-Catholics" (as they
were condescendingly referred to) were probably treated like the
second-rate citizens that the Nazis or the Hindutva lobby would like
others to become in their scheme of things.

It's wholly another matter that the boot is on the other foot today,
After the 1991 'medium of instruction' policies put in place by
Shashikala Kakodkar and the Alemao-Barbosa PDF government, the
Catholic middle classes have amputated themselves from
Catholic-schools, opening up the latter to a wider base of students,
thus making them more reflective of the demographic mix of Goa
(including migrant kids of the poor, but not sufficient) while the
government-run shalas are in a state of collapse.

The focus-on-discipline might churn out good young Fascists, but I
doubt it would create thinking men and women who have their hearts in
their right place, can be concerned about those "less fortunate then
them" (to use a Catholic turn of phrase popular in our times) and help
others to come up in life.

It was only when I reached Dempo College of Commerce and Economics in
my first year of college that I didn't feel treated like a kid, and
though the lecturers didn't mind whether we were in class or sat
outside, that simply forced us to voluntarily become more responsible
in our attitudes.

Anyway, to wind up, I don't think that being religious is a minus. And
I think that our commitment to values like secularism (the only
concept on which a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-caste country
like India can survive) come merely from the schools we went to, or
the friends we have.

One of my pet theories (it's just a theory, wholly unsubstantiable, so
don't flame me for it) is that the Catholics in Goa are arrogant
enough to behave like a majority, and the Hindus of Goa are among the
few that behave like an insecure minority! (I also concur with Selma's
views that Hindus from outside Goa are far more tolerant, but probably
our Hindu friends might say the same thing about Christians from other
parts of India. Perhaps it has more to do with people turning rivals
when they are competing for the same fish in the sea.)

Just a few random thoughts, not meant to be personally offensive to anyone. FN
--
Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org Ph +91-832-2409490
The Goa books blog: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Goa1556 (alt.publishing.goa): http://goa1556.goa-india.org
anand virgincar
2008-01-26 07:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari <kamlaksh at gmail.com> wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Catholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-26 07:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari <kamlaksh at gmail.com> wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Catholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-26 07:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari <kamlaksh at gmail.com> wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Catholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-26 07:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari <kamlaksh at gmail.com> wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Catholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-26 07:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari <kamlaksh at gmail.com> wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Catholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-26 07:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari <kamlaksh at gmail.com> wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Catholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-26 00:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Selma Wrote:
Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that itis possible to like people across cultures, religions,states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possibleto respect the person even if one does not agree withtheir views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,what is it that makes us fundamentally human?
selma

RESPONSE:
First ask yourself one BIG question what does it mean to simply make mockery of one's surname without going deep into the matter?
Is it CORRECT to assault one's surname(vigincar) by relating it to virginity of a women? I didn't expect such response or support to a person who used vulgar language relating to the surname of Virgincar atleast from a lady.
It is NOT possible for me to agree with views which doesnt have base of truth & are simply made without any deep knowledge of that subject & I don't respect a person who has no respect to other people & their surname's. Hope you have got my point.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-01-26 11:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Anand

You took up this thread at the wrong end. I think the subject under discussion was indeed about communalism in which we all took part thoughout last year (I have only been a member of Goanet for a year).

Selma if anything is one of the least people to consider as a hate-monger on this forum. I notice that there are times when Selma will dig & poke to get a reaction from some posters who are continually brash on issues, this is not meant in the way this comes over to you.

Reading her post that you have subject lined in your post does come across as a rebel rouser but believe me she is far from that. Some of her posts are meant to be "tongue in cheek" remarks on subjects as diverse as those discussed here.

Please do not take offence, nor feel hurt when you find something in you inbox from Selma. Last year I regarded her as one of the top ten posters who will I will read first before any other, in case I do not have time to go through all 50 to 80 emails in my inbox, not to mention other private emails which number about the same.

I think you will find that if you go back a year and slowly go through the archives you will find the thread where Selma's opinions may well ring true, if only sometimes provocative to the point of putting a smile on your face.

Not everything is as it should be on Goanet, we all get our posts rigorously checked by the moderators & sometimes we are all annoyed when a certain post you have sent to Goanet, is rejected. Its either because it was getting boring (subject discussed for too long), or the thread has gone too far to be almost obscure.

I have read some posts in the past years that I would have liked to have strung up the author by the ankles & left dangling over the Mandovi, but everyone has a right to an opinion & if expressed on this forum, we can then deal with them individually.

But welcome in any case, we can see you are as sensitive as the rest of us, when it comes to certain issues so dont lose this gut feeling................ it's what makes contributions to this forum so genuine, albeit this time perhaps you may have felt something was wrong, it really was not I think meant to be so hurtful, but I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Oh by the way, I too was in LHS in the late 1950's until time to leave Goa, in 1961, as so many others on this forum have either attended there or been associated with this school. I hope to return end of the year, "the Gods willing........."

Best wishes to you.

John Monteiro
-----------------------------------------------------------



anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education &
Primary School Students Chess Tournament

More information at:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance
with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Ca
tholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Carvalho
2008-01-26 15:30:39 UTC
Permalink
--- anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com>
Post by anand virgincar
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the
"kars" of Goa,
--------------------------------
Dear Anand,

First of all welcome to Goanet and I hope you become a
strong, rational voice determined to bring communal
harmony to Goanet, which at the moment is quite
polarised, thanks to the efforts of some factions.

I admit that post of mine was very strident and I
regret it wholeheartedly. If you generally follow my
postings you will realise it is out of character.
However it followed weeks of taunts by the saffronites
on this forum and actually I'm a little dismayed that
while you take umbrage at my posting, you have as yet
not taken any at theirs.

I certainly don't have a problem with your surname,
but the endless, divisive, futile and revisionist
discussions on this forum about the Inquisition, St.
Francis Xavier (poor man is almost mud) etc, carried
on by Goan Hindus on this forum, are unbearable at
times, bent only on inciting hatred and victimising
minorities. I have honestly begun to feel insecure
about being an Catholic Indian in India. So I hope you
are as gun-ho about taking on the radicals from your
side as I often take on from my side.

Let us shake hands and make a fresh start, although
personal chores at the moment keep me away from Goanet
and I am not as frequent a visitor as I used to be.

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Radhakrishnan Nair
2008-01-24 06:13:32 UTC
Permalink
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity and taking a pot shot on his
surname. It was remiss of me to post without checking the facts and I
sincerely apologise for the hurt caused to him. I would never have
dared to make such a comment if I had an inkling that it was a real
name.

I also thank all Goanetters who pointed out the indiscretion on my
part. Really sorry for that!

Regards to all.

RKN
Carvalho
2008-01-24 15:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand
Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity
-----------------------------------

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-24 23:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma

RESPONSE:

Good joke Ms/Mrs Selma, "an honest mistake"
Atleast you said he made a mistake. Mistakes are not honest or dishonest,
they are mistakes whoever do it Goan or South Indian.
It seems you got a lot of love to such BROAD MINDED ones who TRY to make
MISTAKES and then honestly admit them. Good going.
Onething you said correctly Kars(Goenkars) of Goa should learn something.
But I would add to it saying Kars of Goa should learn everything from these
"fairly more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians" including
poderponn. As most of these people have deeply grounded their roots in all
traditional businesses of Kars(Goenkars).
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising mistakes done by
Non-Goans.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
Carvalho
2008-01-25 14:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kamalaksh Chari
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising
mistakes done by
Non-Goans.
Keep it up.
Regards,
Kamalaksh
------------------------------------
Oh dearie me!

There's a common misconception in India, that it is
Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the
rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for
autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by
the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and
the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a
"madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,
that misconception has been shattered, alongwith
several other misconceptions such as Goa is the
epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.

Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel
in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having
spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to
earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means
having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,
religions and ideologies.

I support and like a lot of people on this list. I
like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like
FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much
as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like
Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the
Catholic Church ;-)

Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it
is possible to like people across cultures, religions,
states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible
to respect the person even if one does not agree with
their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,
what is it that makes us fundamentally human?

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-26 00:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Selma Wrote:
Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that itis possible to like people across cultures, religions,states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possibleto respect the person even if one does not agree withtheir views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,what is it that makes us fundamentally human?
selma

RESPONSE:
First ask yourself one BIG question what does it mean to simply make mockery of one's surname without going deep into the matter?
Is it CORRECT to assault one's surname(vigincar) by relating it to virginity of a women? I didn't expect such response or support to a person who used vulgar language relating to the surname of Virgincar atleast from a lady.
It is NOT possible for me to agree with views which doesnt have base of truth & are simply made without any deep knowledge of that subject & I don't respect a person who has no respect to other people & their surname's. Hope you have got my point.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-01-26 11:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Anand

You took up this thread at the wrong end. I think the subject under discussion was indeed about communalism in which we all took part thoughout last year (I have only been a member of Goanet for a year).

Selma if anything is one of the least people to consider as a hate-monger on this forum. I notice that there are times when Selma will dig & poke to get a reaction from some posters who are continually brash on issues, this is not meant in the way this comes over to you.

Reading her post that you have subject lined in your post does come across as a rebel rouser but believe me she is far from that. Some of her posts are meant to be "tongue in cheek" remarks on subjects as diverse as those discussed here.

Please do not take offence, nor feel hurt when you find something in you inbox from Selma. Last year I regarded her as one of the top ten posters who will I will read first before any other, in case I do not have time to go through all 50 to 80 emails in my inbox, not to mention other private emails which number about the same.

I think you will find that if you go back a year and slowly go through the archives you will find the thread where Selma's opinions may well ring true, if only sometimes provocative to the point of putting a smile on your face.

Not everything is as it should be on Goanet, we all get our posts rigorously checked by the moderators & sometimes we are all annoyed when a certain post you have sent to Goanet, is rejected. Its either because it was getting boring (subject discussed for too long), or the thread has gone too far to be almost obscure.

I have read some posts in the past years that I would have liked to have strung up the author by the ankles & left dangling over the Mandovi, but everyone has a right to an opinion & if expressed on this forum, we can then deal with them individually.

But welcome in any case, we can see you are as sensitive as the rest of us, when it comes to certain issues so dont lose this gut feeling................ it's what makes contributions to this forum so genuine, albeit this time perhaps you may have felt something was wrong, it really was not I think meant to be so hurtful, but I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Oh by the way, I too was in LHS in the late 1950's until time to leave Goa, in 1961, as so many others on this forum have either attended there or been associated with this school. I hope to return end of the year, "the Gods willing........."

Best wishes to you.

John Monteiro
-----------------------------------------------------------



anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education &
Primary School Students Chess Tournament

More information at:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance
with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Ca
tholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Carvalho
2008-01-26 15:30:39 UTC
Permalink
--- anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com>
Post by anand virgincar
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the
"kars" of Goa,
--------------------------------
Dear Anand,

First of all welcome to Goanet and I hope you become a
strong, rational voice determined to bring communal
harmony to Goanet, which at the moment is quite
polarised, thanks to the efforts of some factions.

I admit that post of mine was very strident and I
regret it wholeheartedly. If you generally follow my
postings you will realise it is out of character.
However it followed weeks of taunts by the saffronites
on this forum and actually I'm a little dismayed that
while you take umbrage at my posting, you have as yet
not taken any at theirs.

I certainly don't have a problem with your surname,
but the endless, divisive, futile and revisionist
discussions on this forum about the Inquisition, St.
Francis Xavier (poor man is almost mud) etc, carried
on by Goan Hindus on this forum, are unbearable at
times, bent only on inciting hatred and victimising
minorities. I have honestly begun to feel insecure
about being an Catholic Indian in India. So I hope you
are as gun-ho about taking on the radicals from your
side as I often take on from my side.

Let us shake hands and make a fresh start, although
personal chores at the moment keep me away from Goanet
and I am not as frequent a visitor as I used to be.

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Radhakrishnan Nair
2008-01-24 06:13:32 UTC
Permalink
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity and taking a pot shot on his
surname. It was remiss of me to post without checking the facts and I
sincerely apologise for the hurt caused to him. I would never have
dared to make such a comment if I had an inkling that it was a real
name.

I also thank all Goanetters who pointed out the indiscretion on my
part. Really sorry for that!

Regards to all.

RKN
Carvalho
2008-01-24 15:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand
Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity
-----------------------------------

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-24 23:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma

RESPONSE:

Good joke Ms/Mrs Selma, "an honest mistake"
Atleast you said he made a mistake. Mistakes are not honest or dishonest,
they are mistakes whoever do it Goan or South Indian.
It seems you got a lot of love to such BROAD MINDED ones who TRY to make
MISTAKES and then honestly admit them. Good going.
Onething you said correctly Kars(Goenkars) of Goa should learn something.
But I would add to it saying Kars of Goa should learn everything from these
"fairly more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians" including
poderponn. As most of these people have deeply grounded their roots in all
traditional businesses of Kars(Goenkars).
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising mistakes done by
Non-Goans.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
Carvalho
2008-01-25 14:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kamalaksh Chari
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising
mistakes done by
Non-Goans.
Keep it up.
Regards,
Kamalaksh
------------------------------------
Oh dearie me!

There's a common misconception in India, that it is
Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the
rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for
autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by
the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and
the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a
"madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,
that misconception has been shattered, alongwith
several other misconceptions such as Goa is the
epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.

Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel
in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having
spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to
earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means
having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,
religions and ideologies.

I support and like a lot of people on this list. I
like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like
FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much
as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like
Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the
Catholic Church ;-)

Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it
is possible to like people across cultures, religions,
states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible
to respect the person even if one does not agree with
their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,
what is it that makes us fundamentally human?

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-26 00:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Selma Wrote:
Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that itis possible to like people across cultures, religions,states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possibleto respect the person even if one does not agree withtheir views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,what is it that makes us fundamentally human?
selma

RESPONSE:
First ask yourself one BIG question what does it mean to simply make mockery of one's surname without going deep into the matter?
Is it CORRECT to assault one's surname(vigincar) by relating it to virginity of a women? I didn't expect such response or support to a person who used vulgar language relating to the surname of Virgincar atleast from a lady.
It is NOT possible for me to agree with views which doesnt have base of truth & are simply made without any deep knowledge of that subject & I don't respect a person who has no respect to other people & their surname's. Hope you have got my point.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-01-26 11:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Anand

You took up this thread at the wrong end. I think the subject under discussion was indeed about communalism in which we all took part thoughout last year (I have only been a member of Goanet for a year).

Selma if anything is one of the least people to consider as a hate-monger on this forum. I notice that there are times when Selma will dig & poke to get a reaction from some posters who are continually brash on issues, this is not meant in the way this comes over to you.

Reading her post that you have subject lined in your post does come across as a rebel rouser but believe me she is far from that. Some of her posts are meant to be "tongue in cheek" remarks on subjects as diverse as those discussed here.

Please do not take offence, nor feel hurt when you find something in you inbox from Selma. Last year I regarded her as one of the top ten posters who will I will read first before any other, in case I do not have time to go through all 50 to 80 emails in my inbox, not to mention other private emails which number about the same.

I think you will find that if you go back a year and slowly go through the archives you will find the thread where Selma's opinions may well ring true, if only sometimes provocative to the point of putting a smile on your face.

Not everything is as it should be on Goanet, we all get our posts rigorously checked by the moderators & sometimes we are all annoyed when a certain post you have sent to Goanet, is rejected. Its either because it was getting boring (subject discussed for too long), or the thread has gone too far to be almost obscure.

I have read some posts in the past years that I would have liked to have strung up the author by the ankles & left dangling over the Mandovi, but everyone has a right to an opinion & if expressed on this forum, we can then deal with them individually.

But welcome in any case, we can see you are as sensitive as the rest of us, when it comes to certain issues so dont lose this gut feeling................ it's what makes contributions to this forum so genuine, albeit this time perhaps you may have felt something was wrong, it really was not I think meant to be so hurtful, but I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Oh by the way, I too was in LHS in the late 1950's until time to leave Goa, in 1961, as so many others on this forum have either attended there or been associated with this school. I hope to return end of the year, "the Gods willing........."

Best wishes to you.

John Monteiro
-----------------------------------------------------------



anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education &
Primary School Students Chess Tournament

More information at:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance
with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Ca
tholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Carvalho
2008-01-26 15:30:39 UTC
Permalink
--- anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com>
Post by anand virgincar
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the
"kars" of Goa,
--------------------------------
Dear Anand,

First of all welcome to Goanet and I hope you become a
strong, rational voice determined to bring communal
harmony to Goanet, which at the moment is quite
polarised, thanks to the efforts of some factions.

I admit that post of mine was very strident and I
regret it wholeheartedly. If you generally follow my
postings you will realise it is out of character.
However it followed weeks of taunts by the saffronites
on this forum and actually I'm a little dismayed that
while you take umbrage at my posting, you have as yet
not taken any at theirs.

I certainly don't have a problem with your surname,
but the endless, divisive, futile and revisionist
discussions on this forum about the Inquisition, St.
Francis Xavier (poor man is almost mud) etc, carried
on by Goan Hindus on this forum, are unbearable at
times, bent only on inciting hatred and victimising
minorities. I have honestly begun to feel insecure
about being an Catholic Indian in India. So I hope you
are as gun-ho about taking on the radicals from your
side as I often take on from my side.

Let us shake hands and make a fresh start, although
personal chores at the moment keep me away from Goanet
and I am not as frequent a visitor as I used to be.

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Radhakrishnan Nair
2008-01-24 06:13:32 UTC
Permalink
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity and taking a pot shot on his
surname. It was remiss of me to post without checking the facts and I
sincerely apologise for the hurt caused to him. I would never have
dared to make such a comment if I had an inkling that it was a real
name.

I also thank all Goanetters who pointed out the indiscretion on my
part. Really sorry for that!

Regards to all.

RKN
Carvalho
2008-01-24 15:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand
Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity
-----------------------------------

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-24 23:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma

RESPONSE:

Good joke Ms/Mrs Selma, "an honest mistake"
Atleast you said he made a mistake. Mistakes are not honest or dishonest,
they are mistakes whoever do it Goan or South Indian.
It seems you got a lot of love to such BROAD MINDED ones who TRY to make
MISTAKES and then honestly admit them. Good going.
Onething you said correctly Kars(Goenkars) of Goa should learn something.
But I would add to it saying Kars of Goa should learn everything from these
"fairly more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians" including
poderponn. As most of these people have deeply grounded their roots in all
traditional businesses of Kars(Goenkars).
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising mistakes done by
Non-Goans.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
Carvalho
2008-01-25 14:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kamalaksh Chari
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising
mistakes done by
Non-Goans.
Keep it up.
Regards,
Kamalaksh
------------------------------------
Oh dearie me!

There's a common misconception in India, that it is
Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the
rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for
autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by
the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and
the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a
"madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,
that misconception has been shattered, alongwith
several other misconceptions such as Goa is the
epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.

Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel
in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having
spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to
earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means
having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,
religions and ideologies.

I support and like a lot of people on this list. I
like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like
FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much
as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like
Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the
Catholic Church ;-)

Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it
is possible to like people across cultures, religions,
states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible
to respect the person even if one does not agree with
their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,
what is it that makes us fundamentally human?

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-26 00:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Selma Wrote:
Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that itis possible to like people across cultures, religions,states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possibleto respect the person even if one does not agree withtheir views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,what is it that makes us fundamentally human?
selma

RESPONSE:
First ask yourself one BIG question what does it mean to simply make mockery of one's surname without going deep into the matter?
Is it CORRECT to assault one's surname(vigincar) by relating it to virginity of a women? I didn't expect such response or support to a person who used vulgar language relating to the surname of Virgincar atleast from a lady.
It is NOT possible for me to agree with views which doesnt have base of truth & are simply made without any deep knowledge of that subject & I don't respect a person who has no respect to other people & their surname's. Hope you have got my point.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-01-26 11:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Anand

You took up this thread at the wrong end. I think the subject under discussion was indeed about communalism in which we all took part thoughout last year (I have only been a member of Goanet for a year).

Selma if anything is one of the least people to consider as a hate-monger on this forum. I notice that there are times when Selma will dig & poke to get a reaction from some posters who are continually brash on issues, this is not meant in the way this comes over to you.

Reading her post that you have subject lined in your post does come across as a rebel rouser but believe me she is far from that. Some of her posts are meant to be "tongue in cheek" remarks on subjects as diverse as those discussed here.

Please do not take offence, nor feel hurt when you find something in you inbox from Selma. Last year I regarded her as one of the top ten posters who will I will read first before any other, in case I do not have time to go through all 50 to 80 emails in my inbox, not to mention other private emails which number about the same.

I think you will find that if you go back a year and slowly go through the archives you will find the thread where Selma's opinions may well ring true, if only sometimes provocative to the point of putting a smile on your face.

Not everything is as it should be on Goanet, we all get our posts rigorously checked by the moderators & sometimes we are all annoyed when a certain post you have sent to Goanet, is rejected. Its either because it was getting boring (subject discussed for too long), or the thread has gone too far to be almost obscure.

I have read some posts in the past years that I would have liked to have strung up the author by the ankles & left dangling over the Mandovi, but everyone has a right to an opinion & if expressed on this forum, we can then deal with them individually.

But welcome in any case, we can see you are as sensitive as the rest of us, when it comes to certain issues so dont lose this gut feeling................ it's what makes contributions to this forum so genuine, albeit this time perhaps you may have felt something was wrong, it really was not I think meant to be so hurtful, but I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Oh by the way, I too was in LHS in the late 1950's until time to leave Goa, in 1961, as so many others on this forum have either attended there or been associated with this school. I hope to return end of the year, "the Gods willing........."

Best wishes to you.

John Monteiro
-----------------------------------------------------------



anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education &
Primary School Students Chess Tournament

More information at:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance
with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Ca
tholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Carvalho
2008-01-26 15:30:39 UTC
Permalink
--- anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com>
Post by anand virgincar
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the
"kars" of Goa,
--------------------------------
Dear Anand,

First of all welcome to Goanet and I hope you become a
strong, rational voice determined to bring communal
harmony to Goanet, which at the moment is quite
polarised, thanks to the efforts of some factions.

I admit that post of mine was very strident and I
regret it wholeheartedly. If you generally follow my
postings you will realise it is out of character.
However it followed weeks of taunts by the saffronites
on this forum and actually I'm a little dismayed that
while you take umbrage at my posting, you have as yet
not taken any at theirs.

I certainly don't have a problem with your surname,
but the endless, divisive, futile and revisionist
discussions on this forum about the Inquisition, St.
Francis Xavier (poor man is almost mud) etc, carried
on by Goan Hindus on this forum, are unbearable at
times, bent only on inciting hatred and victimising
minorities. I have honestly begun to feel insecure
about being an Catholic Indian in India. So I hope you
are as gun-ho about taking on the radicals from your
side as I often take on from my side.

Let us shake hands and make a fresh start, although
personal chores at the moment keep me away from Goanet
and I am not as frequent a visitor as I used to be.

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Radhakrishnan Nair
2008-01-24 06:13:32 UTC
Permalink
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity and taking a pot shot on his
surname. It was remiss of me to post without checking the facts and I
sincerely apologise for the hurt caused to him. I would never have
dared to make such a comment if I had an inkling that it was a real
name.

I also thank all Goanetters who pointed out the indiscretion on my
part. Really sorry for that!

Regards to all.

RKN
Carvalho
2008-01-24 15:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand
Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity
-----------------------------------

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-24 23:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma

RESPONSE:

Good joke Ms/Mrs Selma, "an honest mistake"
Atleast you said he made a mistake. Mistakes are not honest or dishonest,
they are mistakes whoever do it Goan or South Indian.
It seems you got a lot of love to such BROAD MINDED ones who TRY to make
MISTAKES and then honestly admit them. Good going.
Onething you said correctly Kars(Goenkars) of Goa should learn something.
But I would add to it saying Kars of Goa should learn everything from these
"fairly more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians" including
poderponn. As most of these people have deeply grounded their roots in all
traditional businesses of Kars(Goenkars).
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising mistakes done by
Non-Goans.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
Carvalho
2008-01-25 14:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kamalaksh Chari
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising
mistakes done by
Non-Goans.
Keep it up.
Regards,
Kamalaksh
------------------------------------
Oh dearie me!

There's a common misconception in India, that it is
Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the
rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for
autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by
the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and
the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a
"madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,
that misconception has been shattered, alongwith
several other misconceptions such as Goa is the
epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.

Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel
in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having
spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to
earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means
having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,
religions and ideologies.

I support and like a lot of people on this list. I
like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like
FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much
as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like
Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the
Catholic Church ;-)

Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it
is possible to like people across cultures, religions,
states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible
to respect the person even if one does not agree with
their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,
what is it that makes us fundamentally human?

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-26 00:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Selma Wrote:
Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that itis possible to like people across cultures, religions,states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possibleto respect the person even if one does not agree withtheir views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,what is it that makes us fundamentally human?
selma

RESPONSE:
First ask yourself one BIG question what does it mean to simply make mockery of one's surname without going deep into the matter?
Is it CORRECT to assault one's surname(vigincar) by relating it to virginity of a women? I didn't expect such response or support to a person who used vulgar language relating to the surname of Virgincar atleast from a lady.
It is NOT possible for me to agree with views which doesnt have base of truth & are simply made without any deep knowledge of that subject & I don't respect a person who has no respect to other people & their surname's. Hope you have got my point.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-01-26 11:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Anand

You took up this thread at the wrong end. I think the subject under discussion was indeed about communalism in which we all took part thoughout last year (I have only been a member of Goanet for a year).

Selma if anything is one of the least people to consider as a hate-monger on this forum. I notice that there are times when Selma will dig & poke to get a reaction from some posters who are continually brash on issues, this is not meant in the way this comes over to you.

Reading her post that you have subject lined in your post does come across as a rebel rouser but believe me she is far from that. Some of her posts are meant to be "tongue in cheek" remarks on subjects as diverse as those discussed here.

Please do not take offence, nor feel hurt when you find something in you inbox from Selma. Last year I regarded her as one of the top ten posters who will I will read first before any other, in case I do not have time to go through all 50 to 80 emails in my inbox, not to mention other private emails which number about the same.

I think you will find that if you go back a year and slowly go through the archives you will find the thread where Selma's opinions may well ring true, if only sometimes provocative to the point of putting a smile on your face.

Not everything is as it should be on Goanet, we all get our posts rigorously checked by the moderators & sometimes we are all annoyed when a certain post you have sent to Goanet, is rejected. Its either because it was getting boring (subject discussed for too long), or the thread has gone too far to be almost obscure.

I have read some posts in the past years that I would have liked to have strung up the author by the ankles & left dangling over the Mandovi, but everyone has a right to an opinion & if expressed on this forum, we can then deal with them individually.

But welcome in any case, we can see you are as sensitive as the rest of us, when it comes to certain issues so dont lose this gut feeling................ it's what makes contributions to this forum so genuine, albeit this time perhaps you may have felt something was wrong, it really was not I think meant to be so hurtful, but I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Oh by the way, I too was in LHS in the late 1950's until time to leave Goa, in 1961, as so many others on this forum have either attended there or been associated with this school. I hope to return end of the year, "the Gods willing........."

Best wishes to you.

John Monteiro
-----------------------------------------------------------



anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education &
Primary School Students Chess Tournament

More information at:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance
with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Ca
tholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Carvalho
2008-01-26 15:30:39 UTC
Permalink
--- anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com>
Post by anand virgincar
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the
"kars" of Goa,
--------------------------------
Dear Anand,

First of all welcome to Goanet and I hope you become a
strong, rational voice determined to bring communal
harmony to Goanet, which at the moment is quite
polarised, thanks to the efforts of some factions.

I admit that post of mine was very strident and I
regret it wholeheartedly. If you generally follow my
postings you will realise it is out of character.
However it followed weeks of taunts by the saffronites
on this forum and actually I'm a little dismayed that
while you take umbrage at my posting, you have as yet
not taken any at theirs.

I certainly don't have a problem with your surname,
but the endless, divisive, futile and revisionist
discussions on this forum about the Inquisition, St.
Francis Xavier (poor man is almost mud) etc, carried
on by Goan Hindus on this forum, are unbearable at
times, bent only on inciting hatred and victimising
minorities. I have honestly begun to feel insecure
about being an Catholic Indian in India. So I hope you
are as gun-ho about taking on the radicals from your
side as I often take on from my side.

Let us shake hands and make a fresh start, although
personal chores at the moment keep me away from Goanet
and I am not as frequent a visitor as I used to be.

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Radhakrishnan Nair
2008-01-24 06:13:32 UTC
Permalink
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity and taking a pot shot on his
surname. It was remiss of me to post without checking the facts and I
sincerely apologise for the hurt caused to him. I would never have
dared to make such a comment if I had an inkling that it was a real
name.

I also thank all Goanetters who pointed out the indiscretion on my
part. Really sorry for that!

Regards to all.

RKN
Carvalho
2008-01-24 15:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand
Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity
-----------------------------------

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-24 23:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma

RESPONSE:

Good joke Ms/Mrs Selma, "an honest mistake"
Atleast you said he made a mistake. Mistakes are not honest or dishonest,
they are mistakes whoever do it Goan or South Indian.
It seems you got a lot of love to such BROAD MINDED ones who TRY to make
MISTAKES and then honestly admit them. Good going.
Onething you said correctly Kars(Goenkars) of Goa should learn something.
But I would add to it saying Kars of Goa should learn everything from these
"fairly more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians" including
poderponn. As most of these people have deeply grounded their roots in all
traditional businesses of Kars(Goenkars).
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising mistakes done by
Non-Goans.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
Carvalho
2008-01-25 14:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kamalaksh Chari
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising
mistakes done by
Non-Goans.
Keep it up.
Regards,
Kamalaksh
------------------------------------
Oh dearie me!

There's a common misconception in India, that it is
Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the
rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for
autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by
the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and
the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a
"madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,
that misconception has been shattered, alongwith
several other misconceptions such as Goa is the
epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.

Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel
in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having
spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to
earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means
having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,
religions and ideologies.

I support and like a lot of people on this list. I
like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like
FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much
as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like
Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the
Catholic Church ;-)

Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it
is possible to like people across cultures, religions,
states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible
to respect the person even if one does not agree with
their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,
what is it that makes us fundamentally human?

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-26 00:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Selma Wrote:
Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that itis possible to like people across cultures, religions,states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possibleto respect the person even if one does not agree withtheir views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,what is it that makes us fundamentally human?
selma

RESPONSE:
First ask yourself one BIG question what does it mean to simply make mockery of one's surname without going deep into the matter?
Is it CORRECT to assault one's surname(vigincar) by relating it to virginity of a women? I didn't expect such response or support to a person who used vulgar language relating to the surname of Virgincar atleast from a lady.
It is NOT possible for me to agree with views which doesnt have base of truth & are simply made without any deep knowledge of that subject & I don't respect a person who has no respect to other people & their surname's. Hope you have got my point.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-01-26 11:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Anand

You took up this thread at the wrong end. I think the subject under discussion was indeed about communalism in which we all took part thoughout last year (I have only been a member of Goanet for a year).

Selma if anything is one of the least people to consider as a hate-monger on this forum. I notice that there are times when Selma will dig & poke to get a reaction from some posters who are continually brash on issues, this is not meant in the way this comes over to you.

Reading her post that you have subject lined in your post does come across as a rebel rouser but believe me she is far from that. Some of her posts are meant to be "tongue in cheek" remarks on subjects as diverse as those discussed here.

Please do not take offence, nor feel hurt when you find something in you inbox from Selma. Last year I regarded her as one of the top ten posters who will I will read first before any other, in case I do not have time to go through all 50 to 80 emails in my inbox, not to mention other private emails which number about the same.

I think you will find that if you go back a year and slowly go through the archives you will find the thread where Selma's opinions may well ring true, if only sometimes provocative to the point of putting a smile on your face.

Not everything is as it should be on Goanet, we all get our posts rigorously checked by the moderators & sometimes we are all annoyed when a certain post you have sent to Goanet, is rejected. Its either because it was getting boring (subject discussed for too long), or the thread has gone too far to be almost obscure.

I have read some posts in the past years that I would have liked to have strung up the author by the ankles & left dangling over the Mandovi, but everyone has a right to an opinion & if expressed on this forum, we can then deal with them individually.

But welcome in any case, we can see you are as sensitive as the rest of us, when it comes to certain issues so dont lose this gut feeling................ it's what makes contributions to this forum so genuine, albeit this time perhaps you may have felt something was wrong, it really was not I think meant to be so hurtful, but I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Oh by the way, I too was in LHS in the late 1950's until time to leave Goa, in 1961, as so many others on this forum have either attended there or been associated with this school. I hope to return end of the year, "the Gods willing........."

Best wishes to you.

John Monteiro
-----------------------------------------------------------



anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education &
Primary School Students Chess Tournament

More information at:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance
with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Ca
tholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Carvalho
2008-01-26 15:30:39 UTC
Permalink
--- anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com>
Post by anand virgincar
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the
"kars" of Goa,
--------------------------------
Dear Anand,

First of all welcome to Goanet and I hope you become a
strong, rational voice determined to bring communal
harmony to Goanet, which at the moment is quite
polarised, thanks to the efforts of some factions.

I admit that post of mine was very strident and I
regret it wholeheartedly. If you generally follow my
postings you will realise it is out of character.
However it followed weeks of taunts by the saffronites
on this forum and actually I'm a little dismayed that
while you take umbrage at my posting, you have as yet
not taken any at theirs.

I certainly don't have a problem with your surname,
but the endless, divisive, futile and revisionist
discussions on this forum about the Inquisition, St.
Francis Xavier (poor man is almost mud) etc, carried
on by Goan Hindus on this forum, are unbearable at
times, bent only on inciting hatred and victimising
minorities. I have honestly begun to feel insecure
about being an Catholic Indian in India. So I hope you
are as gun-ho about taking on the radicals from your
side as I often take on from my side.

Let us shake hands and make a fresh start, although
personal chores at the moment keep me away from Goanet
and I am not as frequent a visitor as I used to be.

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Radhakrishnan Nair
2008-01-24 06:13:32 UTC
Permalink
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity and taking a pot shot on his
surname. It was remiss of me to post without checking the facts and I
sincerely apologise for the hurt caused to him. I would never have
dared to make such a comment if I had an inkling that it was a real
name.

I also thank all Goanetters who pointed out the indiscretion on my
part. Really sorry for that!

Regards to all.

RKN
Carvalho
2008-01-24 15:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
I hearby offer an unconditional apology to Dr Anand
Virgincar for
casting aspersions on his identity
-----------------------------------

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-24 23:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>wrote:

RKN made an honest mistake. I see the entire BJP
coterie is out in full force to pillory him. As far as
I'm concerned the Nair, Sen Guptas and Gagdils on this
list make far more sense than all the "Kars" put
together. Excluding Helekar ofcourse :-)

The Kars of Goa should learn something from the fairly
more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians.

selma

RESPONSE:

Good joke Ms/Mrs Selma, "an honest mistake"
Atleast you said he made a mistake. Mistakes are not honest or dishonest,
they are mistakes whoever do it Goan or South Indian.
It seems you got a lot of love to such BROAD MINDED ones who TRY to make
MISTAKES and then honestly admit them. Good going.
Onething you said correctly Kars(Goenkars) of Goa should learn something.
But I would add to it saying Kars of Goa should learn everything from these
"fairly more broad-minded and liberal thinking South Indians" including
poderponn. As most of these people have deeply grounded their roots in all
traditional businesses of Kars(Goenkars).
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising mistakes done by
Non-Goans.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
Carvalho
2008-01-25 14:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kamalaksh Chari
Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising
mistakes done by
Non-Goans.
Keep it up.
Regards,
Kamalaksh
------------------------------------
Oh dearie me!

There's a common misconception in India, that it is
Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the
rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for
autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by
the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and
the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a
"madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,
that misconception has been shattered, alongwith
several other misconceptions such as Goa is the
epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.

Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel
in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having
spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to
earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means
having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,
religions and ideologies.

I support and like a lot of people on this list. I
like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like
FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much
as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like
Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the
Catholic Church ;-)

Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it
is possible to like people across cultures, religions,
states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible
to respect the person even if one does not agree with
their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,
what is it that makes us fundamentally human?

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kamalaksh Chari
2008-01-26 00:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Selma Wrote:
Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that itis possible to like people across cultures, religions,states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possibleto respect the person even if one does not agree withtheir views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,what is it that makes us fundamentally human?
selma

RESPONSE:
First ask yourself one BIG question what does it mean to simply make mockery of one's surname without going deep into the matter?
Is it CORRECT to assault one's surname(vigincar) by relating it to virginity of a women? I didn't expect such response or support to a person who used vulgar language relating to the surname of Virgincar atleast from a lady.
It is NOT possible for me to agree with views which doesnt have base of truth & are simply made without any deep knowledge of that subject & I don't respect a person who has no respect to other people & their surname's. Hope you have got my point.

Regards,

Kamalaksh
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-01-26 11:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Anand

You took up this thread at the wrong end. I think the subject under discussion was indeed about communalism in which we all took part thoughout last year (I have only been a member of Goanet for a year).

Selma if anything is one of the least people to consider as a hate-monger on this forum. I notice that there are times when Selma will dig & poke to get a reaction from some posters who are continually brash on issues, this is not meant in the way this comes over to you.

Reading her post that you have subject lined in your post does come across as a rebel rouser but believe me she is far from that. Some of her posts are meant to be "tongue in cheek" remarks on subjects as diverse as those discussed here.

Please do not take offence, nor feel hurt when you find something in you inbox from Selma. Last year I regarded her as one of the top ten posters who will I will read first before any other, in case I do not have time to go through all 50 to 80 emails in my inbox, not to mention other private emails which number about the same.

I think you will find that if you go back a year and slowly go through the archives you will find the thread where Selma's opinions may well ring true, if only sometimes provocative to the point of putting a smile on your face.

Not everything is as it should be on Goanet, we all get our posts rigorously checked by the moderators & sometimes we are all annoyed when a certain post you have sent to Goanet, is rejected. Its either because it was getting boring (subject discussed for too long), or the thread has gone too far to be almost obscure.

I have read some posts in the past years that I would have liked to have strung up the author by the ankles & left dangling over the Mandovi, but everyone has a right to an opinion & if expressed on this forum, we can then deal with them individually.

But welcome in any case, we can see you are as sensitive as the rest of us, when it comes to certain issues so dont lose this gut feeling................ it's what makes contributions to this forum so genuine, albeit this time perhaps you may have felt something was wrong, it really was not I think meant to be so hurtful, but I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Oh by the way, I too was in LHS in the late 1950's until time to leave Goa, in 1961, as so many others on this forum have either attended there or been associated with this school. I hope to return end of the year, "the Gods willing........."

Best wishes to you.

John Monteiro
-----------------------------------------------------------



anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education &
Primary School Students Chess Tournament

More information at:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the "kars" of Goa,
I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any
way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see
below )does raise a few points .
Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me
and all "kars" to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians.
I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person
wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many
people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself.
In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was
one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike
your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the
one you sign off with )

With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make
towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and
reproduce "verbatim" a posting you made on this forum :

" A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There
is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically
trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are
armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even
whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet"

1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion
about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials )
2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or
satirical element in th posting.
3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout
Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not
necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God.
I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my
daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I
have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently
against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion.
BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME ....AND HURT A LOT
4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth
( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what
was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation
for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples )

To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai,
there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one
of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other
in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts.
I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am
surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the
readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified
and/or proves that we are "fundamentally" good human beings.

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgncar )
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800> From: elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> **** http://www.GOANET.org ****> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Symposium on Pre-Primary & Primary School Education & > Primary School Students Chess Tournament> > More information at:> > http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --- Kamalaksh Chari wrote:> > > Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising> > mistakes done by > > Non-Goans.> > > > Keep it up.> > > > Regards,> > > > Kamalaksh> ------------------------------------> Oh dearie me!> > There's a common misconception in India, that it is> Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance
with the> rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for> autonomy, the rabid use of the the word "ghantis" by> the BJP coterie, the calls for "Ghanti go home", and> the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a> "madrassi" trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn,> that misconception has been shattered, alongwith> several other misconceptions such as Goa is the> epitome of cultural and religious tolerance.> > Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel> in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having> spent a life in diaspora by many of them. Having to> earn a living in alien cultures necessarily means> having to be tolerant and embracing of other cultures,> religions and ideologies.> > I support and like a lot of people on this list. I> like Rajan Parriker as much as I like Gadgil, I like> FN as much as I like Doc Jose, I like Santosh as much> as I like Gilbert, I like Fr. Ivo as much as I like> Kevin Saldanha, I like Cornel as much as I like the> Ca
tholic Church ;-)> > Something you might want to learn, Chari, is that it> is possible to like people across cultures, religions,> states, nationalities and ideologies. It is possible> to respect the person even if one does not agree with> their views. Just ask yourself one question Chari,> what is it that makes us fundamentally human?> > selma> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Carvalho
2008-01-26 15:30:39 UTC
Permalink
--- anand virgincar <anandvirgincar at hotmail.com>
Post by anand virgincar
Dear Selma-bai,
Although you had made a sharp comment about the
"kars" of Goa,
--------------------------------
Dear Anand,

First of all welcome to Goanet and I hope you become a
strong, rational voice determined to bring communal
harmony to Goanet, which at the moment is quite
polarised, thanks to the efforts of some factions.

I admit that post of mine was very strident and I
regret it wholeheartedly. If you generally follow my
postings you will realise it is out of character.
However it followed weeks of taunts by the saffronites
on this forum and actually I'm a little dismayed that
while you take umbrage at my posting, you have as yet
not taken any at theirs.

I certainly don't have a problem with your surname,
but the endless, divisive, futile and revisionist
discussions on this forum about the Inquisition, St.
Francis Xavier (poor man is almost mud) etc, carried
on by Goan Hindus on this forum, are unbearable at
times, bent only on inciting hatred and victimising
minorities. I have honestly begun to feel insecure
about being an Catholic Indian in India. So I hope you
are as gun-ho about taking on the radicals from your
side as I often take on from my side.

Let us shake hands and make a fresh start, although
personal chores at the moment keep me away from Goanet
and I am not as frequent a visitor as I used to be.

selma


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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