Discussion:
Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
(too old to reply)
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.

It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
floriano
2008-07-25 07:59:26 UTC
Permalink
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts' ......... thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.

BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is not the MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the RTI information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is doing sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left right and center.

(And he has promissed to share with me as and when something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))

And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any one, even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.

floriano
goasuraj



----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar" <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
Dr. U. G. Barad
2008-07-25 14:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Goa is gripped from all sides and Goans have -n- number of questions to be
answered. But this does not mean any question(s) can be asked or should be
asked in any forum(s).

I believe Citizens Initiative (CI) is formed to initiate a debate on whether
Goa University should be converted into Central university or not. Therefore
there should be thorough discussion only on this main topic and nothing
else. I feel all Goans must pose as many questions on this issue as possible
and I am confident that CI will try to put them across the open forum.

As regards competency of Prof. Kamat to be a moderator I think CI rightly
named him as Moderator for the meeting.

On this issue I am with Roland.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 16:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Gift for Prof. Kamat? If a China trip on taxpayer's money is not
a gift, I dont know what Floriano thinks a gift is.

Ask for all the board resolutions, nothing less, from Prof.
Kamat.
And I would like to know what comments Prof. Kamat made in
those
board meetings which passed the resolutions.

What RTI resolution has Goa Suraj filed ? I would like to
know
the details. From past experience and
even Floriano you have the experience, we all know
what a boboo you did of
the last RTI application filed about Infotech.


I would be personally interested in knowing how much tax
payers'
money was spent and what came out of it.

Also, there were lot of issues such as a cricket stadium
was planned.
Wasnit it during Prof. Kamat's tenure ? I would like to
know what
were Prof. Kamat's comments (if he was on the board at
the time)
about siphoning Infotech money for a cricket stadium.

Bottom line, I know only a piece or two, but only all the
board
resolutions during Prof. Kamat's tenure and Prof.
Kamat's comments
on it can resolve this questions, nothing less.

And Prof. Kamat is eminently guilty if he is waiting for
others
to take Infotech to court and get results. So, Prof. Kamat
will
say yes to Narvekar for everything and it is guys like Samir Kelekar
will have to take Infotech to court to get results by
spending their
own hard earned money.

Man, I would say that if this is the case which seem to be,
then Goa
Suraj is also eminently guilty if it hosts such a guy as a
moderator. They might as well ask Narvekar to moderate this instead!

And being a board member makes one liable even legally and
surely
morally. One need not be an MD or an executive director.

And absolutely no conditions here from my side to Goa Suraj. They
can as well field as many candidates, have as many debates, and
get as many votes as they have been getting.

They could also take money and lunches from mine owners in one
election and ask for a social boycott of mine owners in another.

I mean there is something called Intellectual quotient.

regards,
Samir
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, floriano
From: floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
To: samir_kelekar at yahoo.com, "Goa's premiere
mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:29 PM
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts'
.........
thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.
BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is
not the
MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the
RTI
information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is
doing
sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left
right
and center.
(And he has promissed to share with me as and when
something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of
Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))
And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any
one,
even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.
floriano
goasuraj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar"
<samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward
allegations or
Post by Samir Kelekar
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may
well be
true) while keeping
Post by Samir Kelekar
yourself in the background while you make
them.
Post by Samir Kelekar
What you mean by background? I have asked the
questions openly, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on
a
public forum.
Post by Samir Kelekar
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to
your
questions. What if
Post by Samir Kelekar
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who
has
the necessary
Post by Samir Kelekar
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions
and
seek answers before
Post by Samir Kelekar
the meeting and then make a decision on whether
to
have Prof. Kamat
Post by Samir Kelekar
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post
Prof.
Kamat's answers
Post by Samir Kelekar
either here on Goanet or send them to me
personally on
email, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many
others
capable on Goanet
Post by Samir Kelekar
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof.
Kamat's position has
Post by Samir Kelekar
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-26 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/26 Jeevan R <jeevanb77 at gmail.com> wrote: I believe Mr. M. S.
Kamat is a retired Principal of MES college, Vasco. I wonder if he has
any experience of university functioning, research, etc. at the
highest level. He being an in charge of some unknown, ministerially
tainted, non academic govt agency says all. Some honorable and retired
University Professor will be a better choice as a moderator for a
debate concerning University issues.


jc's response:

I have less of a problem with Mr MS Kamat not having much experience
of University functioning, as I have of the allegation made about him
being tainted.

He is asked to be a moderator of a debate, and not the one to help
Goans make up their mind about GU.

No tainted person can effectively serve as a moderator.

Accordingly, the organisers of this debate (IF they are really
serious) should confirm (after verifying the facts themselves) whether
Mr. Kamat is tainted or not.

No decision is irreversible.

The organisers of the debate, and the debate itself - will have more
credibility IF they do the right thing.

If they refuse to verify - they would be perceived as being no
different than the Alibaba gang.

I find it very strange that Goa University could NOT fine one solitary
Goan academic to head it. The same story with regard to major
departments in Goa. Please see the following attached. This is written
circa the same time as Orlando Ribeiro wrote his strange stuff.
Wonder why Eduardo Faleiro did not balance his statement with that
from an Indian visitor of the time.

jc

http://www.colaco.net/4/GoaLib18.htm (courtesy Livia de Abreu
Noronha, Oeiras, Portugal, May 24, 2002)

from "Goa and Ourselves" written in 1955 in Bombay by the Indian
lawyer B.K. Bohman-Behram, M.A., LL.B.:

Political Aspect:

"...There are about 4500 Goan Civil Servants in Portuguese India,
whilst those who come from Metropolitan Portugal are said to amount to
a few dozen. As against that it is pointed out that there is a
substantial number of Goans in Portugal itself who hold public offices
or pursue liberal professions and are allowed to do so as equals.

The fact seems to be incontrovertible that Goa is not a source of
employment for the sons of Portugal, but that, on the other hand, the
whole of Portugal including its overseas possessions in Asia and
Africa is open to and flooded with the sons of Goa."

Cultural Aspect:

"...Portuguese India with a population of 600,000 is partly Christian
and partly Hindu by a half to half proportion - a proportion that
tilts in favour of the Christians if the thousands of Goan immigrants,
who still retain their Portuguese nationality, are taken into account.

The Christians are an orientalized Neo-latin type. The Hindus, by
reason of their customs and usages having been protected by a special
Portuguese law and by the fact that they constantly intermingled with
their neighbouring co-religionists, did not integrate so much in the
sociological ethnography of Goa and it cannot be said that the process
of lusitanisation is complete in them.

But, it is pointed out, the Hindus of Portuguese India, linked by
centuries of political tradition to things Portuguese, are a
Portuguese type. A particular system of Government and certain
environment prevailing for centuries naturally changes the character
of a people and the Hindus of Goa definitely differ from Hindus
inhabiting the adjoining territories.

One has to meet them to notice their Western mannerism, one has to
enter the homes of the prominent amongst them to find in them a past
or present Portuguese Baron, a Viscount or at least a Knight Commander
with the venera displayed in a conspicuous place by the side of a
photograph of the President of the Portuguese Republic.

"Goans as a result of a cultural process of centuries are different
from their neighbours. They generally feel that Goa cannot therefore
merge if it is going to preserve its soul, its identity, its ethos.

They know that India has throughout its hoary past absorbed several
cultures and passed them through the filter of Hinduism. From the
Aryans to the Greeks, from the Greeks to the Persians, they came and
conquered and were conquered and absorbed, except the Muslims.
Pakistan was the result of the fear that Muslims had of being
politically dominated and culturally absorbed by the Hindus.

"Our own Government implicitly recognised the cultural distinction
between the Goans and the peoples of the Indian Union when it once
stated that ?The Government of India demands a transfer of Portuguese
possessions in India with the guarantee of respecting their culture,
language, laws and customs and not to change them without their
consent?.

"Look at any facet you like of Goan life and you will see Portugal
deeply reflected in it. Ethnically and culturally, the Goans have been
moulded to the Lusitanian type and true to that type they remain by
tradition and choice."
Roland Francis
2008-07-27 04:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Miguel, Samir, Jeevan and all those who oppose Prof Kamat as the
moderator of the Citizen's Initiative debate:

The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".

With such narrow discretion left to him, Prof Kamat's past has little
bearing. In fact, it is the best thing that Floriano could have done.
By making him moderator, Kamat cannot give his own views on the
question.

All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.

Whether the outcome of the debate has any bearing on the final outcome
of the issue is less important than having democracy function at it's
best. While any half-wit can be a voter, it takes intelligent people
to direct the course of public policy. We cannot leave this to greedy
politicians.

If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible. Give as
much importance to the getting the DNAs, the Tehelkas, the Outlooks
and the India Todays as given to the local media. The issues discussed
here are relevant to other literate states also.

Regards,
Roland.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write the conclusion before it starts!
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-27 16:07:46 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/27 floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>

[1] CI will not contact any of the above as it has ALREADY IDENTIFIED
the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has ANNOUNCED his name as such.

[2] Therefore, it will be left to Miguel and/or anyone else to
contact the above person/s and convey to the CI (convenor) his/their
wilingness to moderate the debate on 30th. July.

[3] Only then CI will CONSIDER the POSSIBILITY of substituting the
present moderator for the debate.

[4] this first CI debate will set a PRECEDENT for the future debates
and interactions.


jc's comment:

Having read the above from the good Floriano Lobo especially wrt the
choice of words included in the above statement, I see an absolute
'fait accompli' with NO serious attempt at a mutually beneficial
solution to the dilemma of having an allegedly tainted person as the
moderator of the debate.

There also appears to have been no (publicly declared) verification of
the charges against Mr. Kamat.

I agree with Floriano. This first CI debate will certainly set a
precedent for future debates and interactions. But what will be the
precedent?

Will it be one or more of the following:

a: CI did a "Jhalacch Pahije" a la Bandodkar ?

b: CI decided that it must honour it's invitation, come hell - come high water?

c: CI did due diligence on the moderator, and ignored the 'naysayers'?

d: CI decided that a person is innocent until proven guilty?

e: CI decided that the debate is more important than the moderator?

There is one additional precedent that this debate will set ...and
which, the attendance and post debate conversation will decide

i.e. Will this be just another debate which having as much effect on
Goa as the Beach Nonsense courtesy NDTV ...or Will this be the
beginning of serious dialogue among the Goan populace?

Velim based Kon Fu Shius once said: He who have trouble at the start -
always have problem with the race.

jc
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-27 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Roland Francis,
?
The theory of what a "Moderator" can do is not the practice in Goa. This debate is being held in Goa. Period.
?
The "summing up" that the Moderator is allowed to do is what gets quoted by the Press [Print and electornic media], that is always short of space and footage.
?
I am NOT opposed to Prof [?] Madhav S. Kamat. I just?pointed to the futility of the debate with a person like him in charge. If Floriano?can organise to videofilm the entire debate, then it may be of some use.
?
I do not know how many institutions will respond to Floriano Lobo's call for the debate. It is my experience that a single letter does not elicit much response. One needs to visit the institutions personally and elicit participation.At times, one even needs to provide a response sheet for confirmation.?This is Goa where clubs vie with each other for participation by students .....even when there are excellent prizes.?I could be wrong. Let us see on 30 July, 2008.?

?
The point is the media coverage. The PSU organised the Silver Jubilee celebration of the agitation in Neturlim village of Sanguem taluka to demand for a Government Primary school [GPS]?in 1983. My cousin taught at that GPS in mid 1980s. The only transport options for her were 1. Milk van, 2. Mining truck and 3. walk. This remote village near the Selaulim Dam is even today not easily accessible. The programme at Neturlim on 19 July, 2008, had extensive coverage in the vernacular press and on Prudent TV news. No prizes for guessing why.
?
That is why I had suggested a change of Moderator to Floriano Lobo. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel

--- On Sun, 27/7/08, Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
To: miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in, "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Sunday, 27 July, 2008, 3:15 AM


The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".


All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.


If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible.
Regards,
Roland.





On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the
debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write
the conclusion before it starts!



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-28 05:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 04:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
It is now quasi-official that Goa should have a Central University AND the Goa University at the same time.
?
Prof M.S. Kamat is a part of the panel with the GIMS, MICM and MIHCM founder Fr. Romualdo de Souza sj [incidentally, Dr. Willy's brother], Principal Newman Fernandes of the UGC-designated "College with Potential for Excellence" St.Xavier's College-Mapusa, Mr. Suresh Gundu Amoncar of G.S.Amoncar Vidyamandir and only person to have completed two consecutive terms as Chairman of Goa Board of Education and others who I do not know personally but who are obviously qualified to speak about education.
?
Let us see what the debate on 30 July, 2008 at 4.30 P.M. in Institute Menezes Braganza throws up. Let us have an open mind.
?
The next debate must me on the medium of instruction in the village primary schools in the era of global competition and increaing use of English in all walks of life ...and admixture of English in almost all Indian languages spoken today as stated by the authors at a recent conference.
?
Mog asundi
?
Miguel

Navhind Times on 29 July, 2008

Cong panel says no to central varsity status for GU
by RAMNATH N PAI RAIKAR
Principal Correspondent
PANAJI ? A panel constituted by the Goa pradesh Congress committee under the chairmanship of Mr M K Shaikh to present its observations on the proposed centralisation of the Goa University, is of the opinion that Goa University, the only state university, should work as a state-based university and the central government could think of setting up an independent central university for Goa.
The panel members, who deliberated on the related issues at various meetings, are expected to present the report to the GPCC later this week.
Speaking to ?The Navhind Times? Mr Shaikh said the report is under preparation and would take all aspects on centralisation of the GU into consideration.
The panel members include senior educationists namely, Fr Romuald D?Souza, Prof Suresh Amonkar, Prof M S Kamat, Prof Newman Fernandes and Prof Hillary D?Souza.
The panel is of the opinion that although a centralised university in Goa would receive lot of funds from the Union ministry of human resource development, besides quality faculty to teach at this university and better students, there would be certain drawbacks to it such as local students having to compete with national level students, if adequate clauses are not included while transforming the Goa University into a central university,? the sources informed.
The report of the panel would also include recommendation that certain colleges in the state, which have developed themselves into excellent educational institutions should be allowed to run autonomously.
The report is further expected to suggest that though most of the departments at the GU fail to fill up the required quota of students, with the exception of chemistry department, a separate central university could be set up with departments dedicated to educational fields which are not available at the GU.
?The panel is of the opinion that a central university in Goa can be a good research institution, besides being an educational body, and help the students to carry out frontier research,? the sources revealed.
The panel has also taken into account the possibility of many foreign universities opening their shops in Goa in the near future. ?The report may further have references to such possibilities, as an outcome of liberalisation wherein even the government of India cannot stop the influx of foreign universities in the country,? the sources informed, adding, ?Goa being a centre of attraction worldwide, will attract many of such educational institutions and could, in the next 15 years, whether one likes it or not, become an educational hub.?
The report of the panel, in a nutshell, will recommend maintaining the identity of the GU as an autonomous body, with the monitoring and administrative control from the state government, and presentation of its annual report as well as budget in the state assembly, the sources maintained.
The panel is also of the opinion that there is a room for lot of improvement in the GU and the same could be taken up in a phase-wised manner, the sources revealed. ENDS
?
?
?

--- On Mon, 28/7/08, Ajit Shirodkar <shirodkars at gmail.com> wrote:




Good going !!

Ajit


On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Miguel Braganza <miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in> wrote:






Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Here is the solution.



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 16:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Dr. Barad,

Well, I do not know what exactly the abbreviation "M.C." will mean tomorrow ... Master of Ceremony or Master of Confusion [Maestro Confusao]. At best , it is a leap into the unknown .... with two knowns: Dr. Jayant Budkuley and Mr. Sebastian Fernandes aka "Naxalite". Seby has come to town from Sri Lanka. Who else will speak, I do not know.

As far as I know as of now, my role will be to invite Prof. Madhav S.Kamat to take his seat on the dais. If it reminds you of the Pradesh Congress Committee or the CLPC tradition for proposing the name of the CM of PCC Chief, don't blame me. I am no politician.

It does seem peculiar that the Chairman of the Committee on the University "conversion" appointed by the Goa PCC should want to "leak" to a newspaper the contents of the yet-to-be-submitted "Report" .... on the eve of the debate. Can not blame him, though: this is the monsoon season and everything is leaking. Draft rules being framed for the Government are also leaking in Panaji ....and there is nothing official about it! ;-)

We have the Independence Eve Dance, New Year's Eve Dance and Debate Eve "Leaks". Like the Lays advertisement with Saif Ali Khan, Hum kya karen "Control hi nahin hota!" ;-)

I only posted on the net what is available in print ...in black and white and on the newspapers webpage. Its obvious intent is to balance Dr. Budkuley's articles in the same newspaper. Fair and square? Or should I accuse the GPCC panel [with the Moderator as one of its members] of plagiarising my earlier posting on the goanet???

The MC's job is up for grabs if there are any volunteers. I asked Pravin Sabnis and a few others. They declined. There is no money or prestige in that task. Just uncertainty. I have accepted the task only because I am assured that there is no politics involved. I have no problem on who MCs it ... one way or the other. It is the content of the debate that matters.I am expecting Dr. Joe D'Souza, Manoj Joshi, Soter D'Souza, Jason Fernandes, Pravin Sabnis and others to add their thought to the debate.

Are you going to be there? It would be a pleasure to meet you.

Mog asundi.

Miguel

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:00:31 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad" <dr.udaybarad at gmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's

Message-ID: <488ec720.011e6e0a.1312.0ae1 at mx.google.com>

This is in reply to Message No 12, Dated: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 from Miguel
Braganza on above topic.

Miguel, you being accepted as MC for the Open Academic Public Debate, to be
held tomorrow, on - SHOULD GOA VARSITY GO CENTRAL - after all your IF's &
BUT's, I think you should have refrained yourself in writing on this
subject.

Any way, Miguel let's see what public have to say on this issue on 30th till than refrain yourself from writing anything on this issue.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.

It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
floriano
2008-07-25 07:59:26 UTC
Permalink
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts' ......... thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.

BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is not the MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the RTI information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is doing sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left right and center.

(And he has promissed to share with me as and when something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))

And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any one, even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.

floriano
goasuraj



----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar" <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
Dr. U. G. Barad
2008-07-25 14:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Goa is gripped from all sides and Goans have -n- number of questions to be
answered. But this does not mean any question(s) can be asked or should be
asked in any forum(s).

I believe Citizens Initiative (CI) is formed to initiate a debate on whether
Goa University should be converted into Central university or not. Therefore
there should be thorough discussion only on this main topic and nothing
else. I feel all Goans must pose as many questions on this issue as possible
and I am confident that CI will try to put them across the open forum.

As regards competency of Prof. Kamat to be a moderator I think CI rightly
named him as Moderator for the meeting.

On this issue I am with Roland.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 16:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Gift for Prof. Kamat? If a China trip on taxpayer's money is not
a gift, I dont know what Floriano thinks a gift is.

Ask for all the board resolutions, nothing less, from Prof.
Kamat.
And I would like to know what comments Prof. Kamat made in
those
board meetings which passed the resolutions.

What RTI resolution has Goa Suraj filed ? I would like to
know
the details. From past experience and
even Floriano you have the experience, we all know
what a boboo you did of
the last RTI application filed about Infotech.


I would be personally interested in knowing how much tax
payers'
money was spent and what came out of it.

Also, there were lot of issues such as a cricket stadium
was planned.
Wasnit it during Prof. Kamat's tenure ? I would like to
know what
were Prof. Kamat's comments (if he was on the board at
the time)
about siphoning Infotech money for a cricket stadium.

Bottom line, I know only a piece or two, but only all the
board
resolutions during Prof. Kamat's tenure and Prof.
Kamat's comments
on it can resolve this questions, nothing less.

And Prof. Kamat is eminently guilty if he is waiting for
others
to take Infotech to court and get results. So, Prof. Kamat
will
say yes to Narvekar for everything and it is guys like Samir Kelekar
will have to take Infotech to court to get results by
spending their
own hard earned money.

Man, I would say that if this is the case which seem to be,
then Goa
Suraj is also eminently guilty if it hosts such a guy as a
moderator. They might as well ask Narvekar to moderate this instead!

And being a board member makes one liable even legally and
surely
morally. One need not be an MD or an executive director.

And absolutely no conditions here from my side to Goa Suraj. They
can as well field as many candidates, have as many debates, and
get as many votes as they have been getting.

They could also take money and lunches from mine owners in one
election and ask for a social boycott of mine owners in another.

I mean there is something called Intellectual quotient.

regards,
Samir
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, floriano
From: floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
To: samir_kelekar at yahoo.com, "Goa's premiere
mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:29 PM
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts'
.........
thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.
BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is
not the
MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the
RTI
information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is
doing
sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left
right
and center.
(And he has promissed to share with me as and when
something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of
Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))
And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any
one,
even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.
floriano
goasuraj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar"
<samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward
allegations or
Post by Samir Kelekar
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may
well be
true) while keeping
Post by Samir Kelekar
yourself in the background while you make
them.
Post by Samir Kelekar
What you mean by background? I have asked the
questions openly, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on
a
public forum.
Post by Samir Kelekar
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to
your
questions. What if
Post by Samir Kelekar
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who
has
the necessary
Post by Samir Kelekar
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions
and
seek answers before
Post by Samir Kelekar
the meeting and then make a decision on whether
to
have Prof. Kamat
Post by Samir Kelekar
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post
Prof.
Kamat's answers
Post by Samir Kelekar
either here on Goanet or send them to me
personally on
email, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many
others
capable on Goanet
Post by Samir Kelekar
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof.
Kamat's position has
Post by Samir Kelekar
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-26 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/26 Jeevan R <jeevanb77 at gmail.com> wrote: I believe Mr. M. S.
Kamat is a retired Principal of MES college, Vasco. I wonder if he has
any experience of university functioning, research, etc. at the
highest level. He being an in charge of some unknown, ministerially
tainted, non academic govt agency says all. Some honorable and retired
University Professor will be a better choice as a moderator for a
debate concerning University issues.


jc's response:

I have less of a problem with Mr MS Kamat not having much experience
of University functioning, as I have of the allegation made about him
being tainted.

He is asked to be a moderator of a debate, and not the one to help
Goans make up their mind about GU.

No tainted person can effectively serve as a moderator.

Accordingly, the organisers of this debate (IF they are really
serious) should confirm (after verifying the facts themselves) whether
Mr. Kamat is tainted or not.

No decision is irreversible.

The organisers of the debate, and the debate itself - will have more
credibility IF they do the right thing.

If they refuse to verify - they would be perceived as being no
different than the Alibaba gang.

I find it very strange that Goa University could NOT fine one solitary
Goan academic to head it. The same story with regard to major
departments in Goa. Please see the following attached. This is written
circa the same time as Orlando Ribeiro wrote his strange stuff.
Wonder why Eduardo Faleiro did not balance his statement with that
from an Indian visitor of the time.

jc

http://www.colaco.net/4/GoaLib18.htm (courtesy Livia de Abreu
Noronha, Oeiras, Portugal, May 24, 2002)

from "Goa and Ourselves" written in 1955 in Bombay by the Indian
lawyer B.K. Bohman-Behram, M.A., LL.B.:

Political Aspect:

"...There are about 4500 Goan Civil Servants in Portuguese India,
whilst those who come from Metropolitan Portugal are said to amount to
a few dozen. As against that it is pointed out that there is a
substantial number of Goans in Portugal itself who hold public offices
or pursue liberal professions and are allowed to do so as equals.

The fact seems to be incontrovertible that Goa is not a source of
employment for the sons of Portugal, but that, on the other hand, the
whole of Portugal including its overseas possessions in Asia and
Africa is open to and flooded with the sons of Goa."

Cultural Aspect:

"...Portuguese India with a population of 600,000 is partly Christian
and partly Hindu by a half to half proportion - a proportion that
tilts in favour of the Christians if the thousands of Goan immigrants,
who still retain their Portuguese nationality, are taken into account.

The Christians are an orientalized Neo-latin type. The Hindus, by
reason of their customs and usages having been protected by a special
Portuguese law and by the fact that they constantly intermingled with
their neighbouring co-religionists, did not integrate so much in the
sociological ethnography of Goa and it cannot be said that the process
of lusitanisation is complete in them.

But, it is pointed out, the Hindus of Portuguese India, linked by
centuries of political tradition to things Portuguese, are a
Portuguese type. A particular system of Government and certain
environment prevailing for centuries naturally changes the character
of a people and the Hindus of Goa definitely differ from Hindus
inhabiting the adjoining territories.

One has to meet them to notice their Western mannerism, one has to
enter the homes of the prominent amongst them to find in them a past
or present Portuguese Baron, a Viscount or at least a Knight Commander
with the venera displayed in a conspicuous place by the side of a
photograph of the President of the Portuguese Republic.

"Goans as a result of a cultural process of centuries are different
from their neighbours. They generally feel that Goa cannot therefore
merge if it is going to preserve its soul, its identity, its ethos.

They know that India has throughout its hoary past absorbed several
cultures and passed them through the filter of Hinduism. From the
Aryans to the Greeks, from the Greeks to the Persians, they came and
conquered and were conquered and absorbed, except the Muslims.
Pakistan was the result of the fear that Muslims had of being
politically dominated and culturally absorbed by the Hindus.

"Our own Government implicitly recognised the cultural distinction
between the Goans and the peoples of the Indian Union when it once
stated that ?The Government of India demands a transfer of Portuguese
possessions in India with the guarantee of respecting their culture,
language, laws and customs and not to change them without their
consent?.

"Look at any facet you like of Goan life and you will see Portugal
deeply reflected in it. Ethnically and culturally, the Goans have been
moulded to the Lusitanian type and true to that type they remain by
tradition and choice."
Roland Francis
2008-07-27 04:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Miguel, Samir, Jeevan and all those who oppose Prof Kamat as the
moderator of the Citizen's Initiative debate:

The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".

With such narrow discretion left to him, Prof Kamat's past has little
bearing. In fact, it is the best thing that Floriano could have done.
By making him moderator, Kamat cannot give his own views on the
question.

All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.

Whether the outcome of the debate has any bearing on the final outcome
of the issue is less important than having democracy function at it's
best. While any half-wit can be a voter, it takes intelligent people
to direct the course of public policy. We cannot leave this to greedy
politicians.

If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible. Give as
much importance to the getting the DNAs, the Tehelkas, the Outlooks
and the India Todays as given to the local media. The issues discussed
here are relevant to other literate states also.

Regards,
Roland.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write the conclusion before it starts!
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-27 16:07:46 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/27 floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>

[1] CI will not contact any of the above as it has ALREADY IDENTIFIED
the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has ANNOUNCED his name as such.

[2] Therefore, it will be left to Miguel and/or anyone else to
contact the above person/s and convey to the CI (convenor) his/their
wilingness to moderate the debate on 30th. July.

[3] Only then CI will CONSIDER the POSSIBILITY of substituting the
present moderator for the debate.

[4] this first CI debate will set a PRECEDENT for the future debates
and interactions.


jc's comment:

Having read the above from the good Floriano Lobo especially wrt the
choice of words included in the above statement, I see an absolute
'fait accompli' with NO serious attempt at a mutually beneficial
solution to the dilemma of having an allegedly tainted person as the
moderator of the debate.

There also appears to have been no (publicly declared) verification of
the charges against Mr. Kamat.

I agree with Floriano. This first CI debate will certainly set a
precedent for future debates and interactions. But what will be the
precedent?

Will it be one or more of the following:

a: CI did a "Jhalacch Pahije" a la Bandodkar ?

b: CI decided that it must honour it's invitation, come hell - come high water?

c: CI did due diligence on the moderator, and ignored the 'naysayers'?

d: CI decided that a person is innocent until proven guilty?

e: CI decided that the debate is more important than the moderator?

There is one additional precedent that this debate will set ...and
which, the attendance and post debate conversation will decide

i.e. Will this be just another debate which having as much effect on
Goa as the Beach Nonsense courtesy NDTV ...or Will this be the
beginning of serious dialogue among the Goan populace?

Velim based Kon Fu Shius once said: He who have trouble at the start -
always have problem with the race.

jc
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-27 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Roland Francis,
?
The theory of what a "Moderator" can do is not the practice in Goa. This debate is being held in Goa. Period.
?
The "summing up" that the Moderator is allowed to do is what gets quoted by the Press [Print and electornic media], that is always short of space and footage.
?
I am NOT opposed to Prof [?] Madhav S. Kamat. I just?pointed to the futility of the debate with a person like him in charge. If Floriano?can organise to videofilm the entire debate, then it may be of some use.
?
I do not know how many institutions will respond to Floriano Lobo's call for the debate. It is my experience that a single letter does not elicit much response. One needs to visit the institutions personally and elicit participation.At times, one even needs to provide a response sheet for confirmation.?This is Goa where clubs vie with each other for participation by students .....even when there are excellent prizes.?I could be wrong. Let us see on 30 July, 2008.?

?
The point is the media coverage. The PSU organised the Silver Jubilee celebration of the agitation in Neturlim village of Sanguem taluka to demand for a Government Primary school [GPS]?in 1983. My cousin taught at that GPS in mid 1980s. The only transport options for her were 1. Milk van, 2. Mining truck and 3. walk. This remote village near the Selaulim Dam is even today not easily accessible. The programme at Neturlim on 19 July, 2008, had extensive coverage in the vernacular press and on Prudent TV news. No prizes for guessing why.
?
That is why I had suggested a change of Moderator to Floriano Lobo. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel

--- On Sun, 27/7/08, Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
To: miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in, "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Sunday, 27 July, 2008, 3:15 AM


The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".


All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.


If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible.
Regards,
Roland.





On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the
debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write
the conclusion before it starts!



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-28 05:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 04:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
It is now quasi-official that Goa should have a Central University AND the Goa University at the same time.
?
Prof M.S. Kamat is a part of the panel with the GIMS, MICM and MIHCM founder Fr. Romualdo de Souza sj [incidentally, Dr. Willy's brother], Principal Newman Fernandes of the UGC-designated "College with Potential for Excellence" St.Xavier's College-Mapusa, Mr. Suresh Gundu Amoncar of G.S.Amoncar Vidyamandir and only person to have completed two consecutive terms as Chairman of Goa Board of Education and others who I do not know personally but who are obviously qualified to speak about education.
?
Let us see what the debate on 30 July, 2008 at 4.30 P.M. in Institute Menezes Braganza throws up. Let us have an open mind.
?
The next debate must me on the medium of instruction in the village primary schools in the era of global competition and increaing use of English in all walks of life ...and admixture of English in almost all Indian languages spoken today as stated by the authors at a recent conference.
?
Mog asundi
?
Miguel

Navhind Times on 29 July, 2008

Cong panel says no to central varsity status for GU
by RAMNATH N PAI RAIKAR
Principal Correspondent
PANAJI ? A panel constituted by the Goa pradesh Congress committee under the chairmanship of Mr M K Shaikh to present its observations on the proposed centralisation of the Goa University, is of the opinion that Goa University, the only state university, should work as a state-based university and the central government could think of setting up an independent central university for Goa.
The panel members, who deliberated on the related issues at various meetings, are expected to present the report to the GPCC later this week.
Speaking to ?The Navhind Times? Mr Shaikh said the report is under preparation and would take all aspects on centralisation of the GU into consideration.
The panel members include senior educationists namely, Fr Romuald D?Souza, Prof Suresh Amonkar, Prof M S Kamat, Prof Newman Fernandes and Prof Hillary D?Souza.
The panel is of the opinion that although a centralised university in Goa would receive lot of funds from the Union ministry of human resource development, besides quality faculty to teach at this university and better students, there would be certain drawbacks to it such as local students having to compete with national level students, if adequate clauses are not included while transforming the Goa University into a central university,? the sources informed.
The report of the panel would also include recommendation that certain colleges in the state, which have developed themselves into excellent educational institutions should be allowed to run autonomously.
The report is further expected to suggest that though most of the departments at the GU fail to fill up the required quota of students, with the exception of chemistry department, a separate central university could be set up with departments dedicated to educational fields which are not available at the GU.
?The panel is of the opinion that a central university in Goa can be a good research institution, besides being an educational body, and help the students to carry out frontier research,? the sources revealed.
The panel has also taken into account the possibility of many foreign universities opening their shops in Goa in the near future. ?The report may further have references to such possibilities, as an outcome of liberalisation wherein even the government of India cannot stop the influx of foreign universities in the country,? the sources informed, adding, ?Goa being a centre of attraction worldwide, will attract many of such educational institutions and could, in the next 15 years, whether one likes it or not, become an educational hub.?
The report of the panel, in a nutshell, will recommend maintaining the identity of the GU as an autonomous body, with the monitoring and administrative control from the state government, and presentation of its annual report as well as budget in the state assembly, the sources maintained.
The panel is also of the opinion that there is a room for lot of improvement in the GU and the same could be taken up in a phase-wised manner, the sources revealed. ENDS
?
?
?

--- On Mon, 28/7/08, Ajit Shirodkar <shirodkars at gmail.com> wrote:




Good going !!

Ajit


On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Miguel Braganza <miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in> wrote:






Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Here is the solution.



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 16:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Dr. Barad,

Well, I do not know what exactly the abbreviation "M.C." will mean tomorrow ... Master of Ceremony or Master of Confusion [Maestro Confusao]. At best , it is a leap into the unknown .... with two knowns: Dr. Jayant Budkuley and Mr. Sebastian Fernandes aka "Naxalite". Seby has come to town from Sri Lanka. Who else will speak, I do not know.

As far as I know as of now, my role will be to invite Prof. Madhav S.Kamat to take his seat on the dais. If it reminds you of the Pradesh Congress Committee or the CLPC tradition for proposing the name of the CM of PCC Chief, don't blame me. I am no politician.

It does seem peculiar that the Chairman of the Committee on the University "conversion" appointed by the Goa PCC should want to "leak" to a newspaper the contents of the yet-to-be-submitted "Report" .... on the eve of the debate. Can not blame him, though: this is the monsoon season and everything is leaking. Draft rules being framed for the Government are also leaking in Panaji ....and there is nothing official about it! ;-)

We have the Independence Eve Dance, New Year's Eve Dance and Debate Eve "Leaks". Like the Lays advertisement with Saif Ali Khan, Hum kya karen "Control hi nahin hota!" ;-)

I only posted on the net what is available in print ...in black and white and on the newspapers webpage. Its obvious intent is to balance Dr. Budkuley's articles in the same newspaper. Fair and square? Or should I accuse the GPCC panel [with the Moderator as one of its members] of plagiarising my earlier posting on the goanet???

The MC's job is up for grabs if there are any volunteers. I asked Pravin Sabnis and a few others. They declined. There is no money or prestige in that task. Just uncertainty. I have accepted the task only because I am assured that there is no politics involved. I have no problem on who MCs it ... one way or the other. It is the content of the debate that matters.I am expecting Dr. Joe D'Souza, Manoj Joshi, Soter D'Souza, Jason Fernandes, Pravin Sabnis and others to add their thought to the debate.

Are you going to be there? It would be a pleasure to meet you.

Mog asundi.

Miguel

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:00:31 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad" <dr.udaybarad at gmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's

Message-ID: <488ec720.011e6e0a.1312.0ae1 at mx.google.com>

This is in reply to Message No 12, Dated: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 from Miguel
Braganza on above topic.

Miguel, you being accepted as MC for the Open Academic Public Debate, to be
held tomorrow, on - SHOULD GOA VARSITY GO CENTRAL - after all your IF's &
BUT's, I think you should have refrained yourself in writing on this
subject.

Any way, Miguel let's see what public have to say on this issue on 30th till than refrain yourself from writing anything on this issue.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.

It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
floriano
2008-07-25 07:59:26 UTC
Permalink
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts' ......... thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.

BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is not the MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the RTI information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is doing sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left right and center.

(And he has promissed to share with me as and when something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))

And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any one, even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.

floriano
goasuraj



----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar" <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
Dr. U. G. Barad
2008-07-25 14:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Goa is gripped from all sides and Goans have -n- number of questions to be
answered. But this does not mean any question(s) can be asked or should be
asked in any forum(s).

I believe Citizens Initiative (CI) is formed to initiate a debate on whether
Goa University should be converted into Central university or not. Therefore
there should be thorough discussion only on this main topic and nothing
else. I feel all Goans must pose as many questions on this issue as possible
and I am confident that CI will try to put them across the open forum.

As regards competency of Prof. Kamat to be a moderator I think CI rightly
named him as Moderator for the meeting.

On this issue I am with Roland.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 16:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Gift for Prof. Kamat? If a China trip on taxpayer's money is not
a gift, I dont know what Floriano thinks a gift is.

Ask for all the board resolutions, nothing less, from Prof.
Kamat.
And I would like to know what comments Prof. Kamat made in
those
board meetings which passed the resolutions.

What RTI resolution has Goa Suraj filed ? I would like to
know
the details. From past experience and
even Floriano you have the experience, we all know
what a boboo you did of
the last RTI application filed about Infotech.


I would be personally interested in knowing how much tax
payers'
money was spent and what came out of it.

Also, there were lot of issues such as a cricket stadium
was planned.
Wasnit it during Prof. Kamat's tenure ? I would like to
know what
were Prof. Kamat's comments (if he was on the board at
the time)
about siphoning Infotech money for a cricket stadium.

Bottom line, I know only a piece or two, but only all the
board
resolutions during Prof. Kamat's tenure and Prof.
Kamat's comments
on it can resolve this questions, nothing less.

And Prof. Kamat is eminently guilty if he is waiting for
others
to take Infotech to court and get results. So, Prof. Kamat
will
say yes to Narvekar for everything and it is guys like Samir Kelekar
will have to take Infotech to court to get results by
spending their
own hard earned money.

Man, I would say that if this is the case which seem to be,
then Goa
Suraj is also eminently guilty if it hosts such a guy as a
moderator. They might as well ask Narvekar to moderate this instead!

And being a board member makes one liable even legally and
surely
morally. One need not be an MD or an executive director.

And absolutely no conditions here from my side to Goa Suraj. They
can as well field as many candidates, have as many debates, and
get as many votes as they have been getting.

They could also take money and lunches from mine owners in one
election and ask for a social boycott of mine owners in another.

I mean there is something called Intellectual quotient.

regards,
Samir
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, floriano
From: floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
To: samir_kelekar at yahoo.com, "Goa's premiere
mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:29 PM
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts'
.........
thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.
BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is
not the
MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the
RTI
information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is
doing
sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left
right
and center.
(And he has promissed to share with me as and when
something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of
Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))
And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any
one,
even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.
floriano
goasuraj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar"
<samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward
allegations or
Post by Samir Kelekar
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may
well be
true) while keeping
Post by Samir Kelekar
yourself in the background while you make
them.
Post by Samir Kelekar
What you mean by background? I have asked the
questions openly, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on
a
public forum.
Post by Samir Kelekar
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to
your
questions. What if
Post by Samir Kelekar
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who
has
the necessary
Post by Samir Kelekar
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions
and
seek answers before
Post by Samir Kelekar
the meeting and then make a decision on whether
to
have Prof. Kamat
Post by Samir Kelekar
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post
Prof.
Kamat's answers
Post by Samir Kelekar
either here on Goanet or send them to me
personally on
email, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many
others
capable on Goanet
Post by Samir Kelekar
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof.
Kamat's position has
Post by Samir Kelekar
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-26 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/26 Jeevan R <jeevanb77 at gmail.com> wrote: I believe Mr. M. S.
Kamat is a retired Principal of MES college, Vasco. I wonder if he has
any experience of university functioning, research, etc. at the
highest level. He being an in charge of some unknown, ministerially
tainted, non academic govt agency says all. Some honorable and retired
University Professor will be a better choice as a moderator for a
debate concerning University issues.


jc's response:

I have less of a problem with Mr MS Kamat not having much experience
of University functioning, as I have of the allegation made about him
being tainted.

He is asked to be a moderator of a debate, and not the one to help
Goans make up their mind about GU.

No tainted person can effectively serve as a moderator.

Accordingly, the organisers of this debate (IF they are really
serious) should confirm (after verifying the facts themselves) whether
Mr. Kamat is tainted or not.

No decision is irreversible.

The organisers of the debate, and the debate itself - will have more
credibility IF they do the right thing.

If they refuse to verify - they would be perceived as being no
different than the Alibaba gang.

I find it very strange that Goa University could NOT fine one solitary
Goan academic to head it. The same story with regard to major
departments in Goa. Please see the following attached. This is written
circa the same time as Orlando Ribeiro wrote his strange stuff.
Wonder why Eduardo Faleiro did not balance his statement with that
from an Indian visitor of the time.

jc

http://www.colaco.net/4/GoaLib18.htm (courtesy Livia de Abreu
Noronha, Oeiras, Portugal, May 24, 2002)

from "Goa and Ourselves" written in 1955 in Bombay by the Indian
lawyer B.K. Bohman-Behram, M.A., LL.B.:

Political Aspect:

"...There are about 4500 Goan Civil Servants in Portuguese India,
whilst those who come from Metropolitan Portugal are said to amount to
a few dozen. As against that it is pointed out that there is a
substantial number of Goans in Portugal itself who hold public offices
or pursue liberal professions and are allowed to do so as equals.

The fact seems to be incontrovertible that Goa is not a source of
employment for the sons of Portugal, but that, on the other hand, the
whole of Portugal including its overseas possessions in Asia and
Africa is open to and flooded with the sons of Goa."

Cultural Aspect:

"...Portuguese India with a population of 600,000 is partly Christian
and partly Hindu by a half to half proportion - a proportion that
tilts in favour of the Christians if the thousands of Goan immigrants,
who still retain their Portuguese nationality, are taken into account.

The Christians are an orientalized Neo-latin type. The Hindus, by
reason of their customs and usages having been protected by a special
Portuguese law and by the fact that they constantly intermingled with
their neighbouring co-religionists, did not integrate so much in the
sociological ethnography of Goa and it cannot be said that the process
of lusitanisation is complete in them.

But, it is pointed out, the Hindus of Portuguese India, linked by
centuries of political tradition to things Portuguese, are a
Portuguese type. A particular system of Government and certain
environment prevailing for centuries naturally changes the character
of a people and the Hindus of Goa definitely differ from Hindus
inhabiting the adjoining territories.

One has to meet them to notice their Western mannerism, one has to
enter the homes of the prominent amongst them to find in them a past
or present Portuguese Baron, a Viscount or at least a Knight Commander
with the venera displayed in a conspicuous place by the side of a
photograph of the President of the Portuguese Republic.

"Goans as a result of a cultural process of centuries are different
from their neighbours. They generally feel that Goa cannot therefore
merge if it is going to preserve its soul, its identity, its ethos.

They know that India has throughout its hoary past absorbed several
cultures and passed them through the filter of Hinduism. From the
Aryans to the Greeks, from the Greeks to the Persians, they came and
conquered and were conquered and absorbed, except the Muslims.
Pakistan was the result of the fear that Muslims had of being
politically dominated and culturally absorbed by the Hindus.

"Our own Government implicitly recognised the cultural distinction
between the Goans and the peoples of the Indian Union when it once
stated that ?The Government of India demands a transfer of Portuguese
possessions in India with the guarantee of respecting their culture,
language, laws and customs and not to change them without their
consent?.

"Look at any facet you like of Goan life and you will see Portugal
deeply reflected in it. Ethnically and culturally, the Goans have been
moulded to the Lusitanian type and true to that type they remain by
tradition and choice."
Roland Francis
2008-07-27 04:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Miguel, Samir, Jeevan and all those who oppose Prof Kamat as the
moderator of the Citizen's Initiative debate:

The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".

With such narrow discretion left to him, Prof Kamat's past has little
bearing. In fact, it is the best thing that Floriano could have done.
By making him moderator, Kamat cannot give his own views on the
question.

All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.

Whether the outcome of the debate has any bearing on the final outcome
of the issue is less important than having democracy function at it's
best. While any half-wit can be a voter, it takes intelligent people
to direct the course of public policy. We cannot leave this to greedy
politicians.

If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible. Give as
much importance to the getting the DNAs, the Tehelkas, the Outlooks
and the India Todays as given to the local media. The issues discussed
here are relevant to other literate states also.

Regards,
Roland.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write the conclusion before it starts!
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-27 16:07:46 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/27 floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>

[1] CI will not contact any of the above as it has ALREADY IDENTIFIED
the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has ANNOUNCED his name as such.

[2] Therefore, it will be left to Miguel and/or anyone else to
contact the above person/s and convey to the CI (convenor) his/their
wilingness to moderate the debate on 30th. July.

[3] Only then CI will CONSIDER the POSSIBILITY of substituting the
present moderator for the debate.

[4] this first CI debate will set a PRECEDENT for the future debates
and interactions.


jc's comment:

Having read the above from the good Floriano Lobo especially wrt the
choice of words included in the above statement, I see an absolute
'fait accompli' with NO serious attempt at a mutually beneficial
solution to the dilemma of having an allegedly tainted person as the
moderator of the debate.

There also appears to have been no (publicly declared) verification of
the charges against Mr. Kamat.

I agree with Floriano. This first CI debate will certainly set a
precedent for future debates and interactions. But what will be the
precedent?

Will it be one or more of the following:

a: CI did a "Jhalacch Pahije" a la Bandodkar ?

b: CI decided that it must honour it's invitation, come hell - come high water?

c: CI did due diligence on the moderator, and ignored the 'naysayers'?

d: CI decided that a person is innocent until proven guilty?

e: CI decided that the debate is more important than the moderator?

There is one additional precedent that this debate will set ...and
which, the attendance and post debate conversation will decide

i.e. Will this be just another debate which having as much effect on
Goa as the Beach Nonsense courtesy NDTV ...or Will this be the
beginning of serious dialogue among the Goan populace?

Velim based Kon Fu Shius once said: He who have trouble at the start -
always have problem with the race.

jc
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-27 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Roland Francis,
?
The theory of what a "Moderator" can do is not the practice in Goa. This debate is being held in Goa. Period.
?
The "summing up" that the Moderator is allowed to do is what gets quoted by the Press [Print and electornic media], that is always short of space and footage.
?
I am NOT opposed to Prof [?] Madhav S. Kamat. I just?pointed to the futility of the debate with a person like him in charge. If Floriano?can organise to videofilm the entire debate, then it may be of some use.
?
I do not know how many institutions will respond to Floriano Lobo's call for the debate. It is my experience that a single letter does not elicit much response. One needs to visit the institutions personally and elicit participation.At times, one even needs to provide a response sheet for confirmation.?This is Goa where clubs vie with each other for participation by students .....even when there are excellent prizes.?I could be wrong. Let us see on 30 July, 2008.?

?
The point is the media coverage. The PSU organised the Silver Jubilee celebration of the agitation in Neturlim village of Sanguem taluka to demand for a Government Primary school [GPS]?in 1983. My cousin taught at that GPS in mid 1980s. The only transport options for her were 1. Milk van, 2. Mining truck and 3. walk. This remote village near the Selaulim Dam is even today not easily accessible. The programme at Neturlim on 19 July, 2008, had extensive coverage in the vernacular press and on Prudent TV news. No prizes for guessing why.
?
That is why I had suggested a change of Moderator to Floriano Lobo. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel

--- On Sun, 27/7/08, Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
To: miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in, "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Sunday, 27 July, 2008, 3:15 AM


The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".


All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.


If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible.
Regards,
Roland.





On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the
debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write
the conclusion before it starts!



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-28 05:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 04:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
It is now quasi-official that Goa should have a Central University AND the Goa University at the same time.
?
Prof M.S. Kamat is a part of the panel with the GIMS, MICM and MIHCM founder Fr. Romualdo de Souza sj [incidentally, Dr. Willy's brother], Principal Newman Fernandes of the UGC-designated "College with Potential for Excellence" St.Xavier's College-Mapusa, Mr. Suresh Gundu Amoncar of G.S.Amoncar Vidyamandir and only person to have completed two consecutive terms as Chairman of Goa Board of Education and others who I do not know personally but who are obviously qualified to speak about education.
?
Let us see what the debate on 30 July, 2008 at 4.30 P.M. in Institute Menezes Braganza throws up. Let us have an open mind.
?
The next debate must me on the medium of instruction in the village primary schools in the era of global competition and increaing use of English in all walks of life ...and admixture of English in almost all Indian languages spoken today as stated by the authors at a recent conference.
?
Mog asundi
?
Miguel

Navhind Times on 29 July, 2008

Cong panel says no to central varsity status for GU
by RAMNATH N PAI RAIKAR
Principal Correspondent
PANAJI ? A panel constituted by the Goa pradesh Congress committee under the chairmanship of Mr M K Shaikh to present its observations on the proposed centralisation of the Goa University, is of the opinion that Goa University, the only state university, should work as a state-based university and the central government could think of setting up an independent central university for Goa.
The panel members, who deliberated on the related issues at various meetings, are expected to present the report to the GPCC later this week.
Speaking to ?The Navhind Times? Mr Shaikh said the report is under preparation and would take all aspects on centralisation of the GU into consideration.
The panel members include senior educationists namely, Fr Romuald D?Souza, Prof Suresh Amonkar, Prof M S Kamat, Prof Newman Fernandes and Prof Hillary D?Souza.
The panel is of the opinion that although a centralised university in Goa would receive lot of funds from the Union ministry of human resource development, besides quality faculty to teach at this university and better students, there would be certain drawbacks to it such as local students having to compete with national level students, if adequate clauses are not included while transforming the Goa University into a central university,? the sources informed.
The report of the panel would also include recommendation that certain colleges in the state, which have developed themselves into excellent educational institutions should be allowed to run autonomously.
The report is further expected to suggest that though most of the departments at the GU fail to fill up the required quota of students, with the exception of chemistry department, a separate central university could be set up with departments dedicated to educational fields which are not available at the GU.
?The panel is of the opinion that a central university in Goa can be a good research institution, besides being an educational body, and help the students to carry out frontier research,? the sources revealed.
The panel has also taken into account the possibility of many foreign universities opening their shops in Goa in the near future. ?The report may further have references to such possibilities, as an outcome of liberalisation wherein even the government of India cannot stop the influx of foreign universities in the country,? the sources informed, adding, ?Goa being a centre of attraction worldwide, will attract many of such educational institutions and could, in the next 15 years, whether one likes it or not, become an educational hub.?
The report of the panel, in a nutshell, will recommend maintaining the identity of the GU as an autonomous body, with the monitoring and administrative control from the state government, and presentation of its annual report as well as budget in the state assembly, the sources maintained.
The panel is also of the opinion that there is a room for lot of improvement in the GU and the same could be taken up in a phase-wised manner, the sources revealed. ENDS
?
?
?

--- On Mon, 28/7/08, Ajit Shirodkar <shirodkars at gmail.com> wrote:




Good going !!

Ajit


On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Miguel Braganza <miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in> wrote:






Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Here is the solution.



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 16:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Dr. Barad,

Well, I do not know what exactly the abbreviation "M.C." will mean tomorrow ... Master of Ceremony or Master of Confusion [Maestro Confusao]. At best , it is a leap into the unknown .... with two knowns: Dr. Jayant Budkuley and Mr. Sebastian Fernandes aka "Naxalite". Seby has come to town from Sri Lanka. Who else will speak, I do not know.

As far as I know as of now, my role will be to invite Prof. Madhav S.Kamat to take his seat on the dais. If it reminds you of the Pradesh Congress Committee or the CLPC tradition for proposing the name of the CM of PCC Chief, don't blame me. I am no politician.

It does seem peculiar that the Chairman of the Committee on the University "conversion" appointed by the Goa PCC should want to "leak" to a newspaper the contents of the yet-to-be-submitted "Report" .... on the eve of the debate. Can not blame him, though: this is the monsoon season and everything is leaking. Draft rules being framed for the Government are also leaking in Panaji ....and there is nothing official about it! ;-)

We have the Independence Eve Dance, New Year's Eve Dance and Debate Eve "Leaks". Like the Lays advertisement with Saif Ali Khan, Hum kya karen "Control hi nahin hota!" ;-)

I only posted on the net what is available in print ...in black and white and on the newspapers webpage. Its obvious intent is to balance Dr. Budkuley's articles in the same newspaper. Fair and square? Or should I accuse the GPCC panel [with the Moderator as one of its members] of plagiarising my earlier posting on the goanet???

The MC's job is up for grabs if there are any volunteers. I asked Pravin Sabnis and a few others. They declined. There is no money or prestige in that task. Just uncertainty. I have accepted the task only because I am assured that there is no politics involved. I have no problem on who MCs it ... one way or the other. It is the content of the debate that matters.I am expecting Dr. Joe D'Souza, Manoj Joshi, Soter D'Souza, Jason Fernandes, Pravin Sabnis and others to add their thought to the debate.

Are you going to be there? It would be a pleasure to meet you.

Mog asundi.

Miguel

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:00:31 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad" <dr.udaybarad at gmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's

Message-ID: <488ec720.011e6e0a.1312.0ae1 at mx.google.com>

This is in reply to Message No 12, Dated: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 from Miguel
Braganza on above topic.

Miguel, you being accepted as MC for the Open Academic Public Debate, to be
held tomorrow, on - SHOULD GOA VARSITY GO CENTRAL - after all your IF's &
BUT's, I think you should have refrained yourself in writing on this
subject.

Any way, Miguel let's see what public have to say on this issue on 30th till than refrain yourself from writing anything on this issue.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.

It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
floriano
2008-07-25 07:59:26 UTC
Permalink
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts' ......... thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.

BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is not the MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the RTI information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is doing sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left right and center.

(And he has promissed to share with me as and when something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))

And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any one, even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.

floriano
goasuraj



----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar" <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
Dr. U. G. Barad
2008-07-25 14:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Goa is gripped from all sides and Goans have -n- number of questions to be
answered. But this does not mean any question(s) can be asked or should be
asked in any forum(s).

I believe Citizens Initiative (CI) is formed to initiate a debate on whether
Goa University should be converted into Central university or not. Therefore
there should be thorough discussion only on this main topic and nothing
else. I feel all Goans must pose as many questions on this issue as possible
and I am confident that CI will try to put them across the open forum.

As regards competency of Prof. Kamat to be a moderator I think CI rightly
named him as Moderator for the meeting.

On this issue I am with Roland.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 16:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Gift for Prof. Kamat? If a China trip on taxpayer's money is not
a gift, I dont know what Floriano thinks a gift is.

Ask for all the board resolutions, nothing less, from Prof.
Kamat.
And I would like to know what comments Prof. Kamat made in
those
board meetings which passed the resolutions.

What RTI resolution has Goa Suraj filed ? I would like to
know
the details. From past experience and
even Floriano you have the experience, we all know
what a boboo you did of
the last RTI application filed about Infotech.


I would be personally interested in knowing how much tax
payers'
money was spent and what came out of it.

Also, there were lot of issues such as a cricket stadium
was planned.
Wasnit it during Prof. Kamat's tenure ? I would like to
know what
were Prof. Kamat's comments (if he was on the board at
the time)
about siphoning Infotech money for a cricket stadium.

Bottom line, I know only a piece or two, but only all the
board
resolutions during Prof. Kamat's tenure and Prof.
Kamat's comments
on it can resolve this questions, nothing less.

And Prof. Kamat is eminently guilty if he is waiting for
others
to take Infotech to court and get results. So, Prof. Kamat
will
say yes to Narvekar for everything and it is guys like Samir Kelekar
will have to take Infotech to court to get results by
spending their
own hard earned money.

Man, I would say that if this is the case which seem to be,
then Goa
Suraj is also eminently guilty if it hosts such a guy as a
moderator. They might as well ask Narvekar to moderate this instead!

And being a board member makes one liable even legally and
surely
morally. One need not be an MD or an executive director.

And absolutely no conditions here from my side to Goa Suraj. They
can as well field as many candidates, have as many debates, and
get as many votes as they have been getting.

They could also take money and lunches from mine owners in one
election and ask for a social boycott of mine owners in another.

I mean there is something called Intellectual quotient.

regards,
Samir
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, floriano
From: floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
To: samir_kelekar at yahoo.com, "Goa's premiere
mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:29 PM
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts'
.........
thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.
BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is
not the
MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the
RTI
information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is
doing
sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left
right
and center.
(And he has promissed to share with me as and when
something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of
Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))
And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any
one,
even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.
floriano
goasuraj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar"
<samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward
allegations or
Post by Samir Kelekar
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may
well be
true) while keeping
Post by Samir Kelekar
yourself in the background while you make
them.
Post by Samir Kelekar
What you mean by background? I have asked the
questions openly, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on
a
public forum.
Post by Samir Kelekar
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to
your
questions. What if
Post by Samir Kelekar
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who
has
the necessary
Post by Samir Kelekar
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions
and
seek answers before
Post by Samir Kelekar
the meeting and then make a decision on whether
to
have Prof. Kamat
Post by Samir Kelekar
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post
Prof.
Kamat's answers
Post by Samir Kelekar
either here on Goanet or send them to me
personally on
email, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many
others
capable on Goanet
Post by Samir Kelekar
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof.
Kamat's position has
Post by Samir Kelekar
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-26 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/26 Jeevan R <jeevanb77 at gmail.com> wrote: I believe Mr. M. S.
Kamat is a retired Principal of MES college, Vasco. I wonder if he has
any experience of university functioning, research, etc. at the
highest level. He being an in charge of some unknown, ministerially
tainted, non academic govt agency says all. Some honorable and retired
University Professor will be a better choice as a moderator for a
debate concerning University issues.


jc's response:

I have less of a problem with Mr MS Kamat not having much experience
of University functioning, as I have of the allegation made about him
being tainted.

He is asked to be a moderator of a debate, and not the one to help
Goans make up their mind about GU.

No tainted person can effectively serve as a moderator.

Accordingly, the organisers of this debate (IF they are really
serious) should confirm (after verifying the facts themselves) whether
Mr. Kamat is tainted or not.

No decision is irreversible.

The organisers of the debate, and the debate itself - will have more
credibility IF they do the right thing.

If they refuse to verify - they would be perceived as being no
different than the Alibaba gang.

I find it very strange that Goa University could NOT fine one solitary
Goan academic to head it. The same story with regard to major
departments in Goa. Please see the following attached. This is written
circa the same time as Orlando Ribeiro wrote his strange stuff.
Wonder why Eduardo Faleiro did not balance his statement with that
from an Indian visitor of the time.

jc

http://www.colaco.net/4/GoaLib18.htm (courtesy Livia de Abreu
Noronha, Oeiras, Portugal, May 24, 2002)

from "Goa and Ourselves" written in 1955 in Bombay by the Indian
lawyer B.K. Bohman-Behram, M.A., LL.B.:

Political Aspect:

"...There are about 4500 Goan Civil Servants in Portuguese India,
whilst those who come from Metropolitan Portugal are said to amount to
a few dozen. As against that it is pointed out that there is a
substantial number of Goans in Portugal itself who hold public offices
or pursue liberal professions and are allowed to do so as equals.

The fact seems to be incontrovertible that Goa is not a source of
employment for the sons of Portugal, but that, on the other hand, the
whole of Portugal including its overseas possessions in Asia and
Africa is open to and flooded with the sons of Goa."

Cultural Aspect:

"...Portuguese India with a population of 600,000 is partly Christian
and partly Hindu by a half to half proportion - a proportion that
tilts in favour of the Christians if the thousands of Goan immigrants,
who still retain their Portuguese nationality, are taken into account.

The Christians are an orientalized Neo-latin type. The Hindus, by
reason of their customs and usages having been protected by a special
Portuguese law and by the fact that they constantly intermingled with
their neighbouring co-religionists, did not integrate so much in the
sociological ethnography of Goa and it cannot be said that the process
of lusitanisation is complete in them.

But, it is pointed out, the Hindus of Portuguese India, linked by
centuries of political tradition to things Portuguese, are a
Portuguese type. A particular system of Government and certain
environment prevailing for centuries naturally changes the character
of a people and the Hindus of Goa definitely differ from Hindus
inhabiting the adjoining territories.

One has to meet them to notice their Western mannerism, one has to
enter the homes of the prominent amongst them to find in them a past
or present Portuguese Baron, a Viscount or at least a Knight Commander
with the venera displayed in a conspicuous place by the side of a
photograph of the President of the Portuguese Republic.

"Goans as a result of a cultural process of centuries are different
from their neighbours. They generally feel that Goa cannot therefore
merge if it is going to preserve its soul, its identity, its ethos.

They know that India has throughout its hoary past absorbed several
cultures and passed them through the filter of Hinduism. From the
Aryans to the Greeks, from the Greeks to the Persians, they came and
conquered and were conquered and absorbed, except the Muslims.
Pakistan was the result of the fear that Muslims had of being
politically dominated and culturally absorbed by the Hindus.

"Our own Government implicitly recognised the cultural distinction
between the Goans and the peoples of the Indian Union when it once
stated that ?The Government of India demands a transfer of Portuguese
possessions in India with the guarantee of respecting their culture,
language, laws and customs and not to change them without their
consent?.

"Look at any facet you like of Goan life and you will see Portugal
deeply reflected in it. Ethnically and culturally, the Goans have been
moulded to the Lusitanian type and true to that type they remain by
tradition and choice."
Roland Francis
2008-07-27 04:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Miguel, Samir, Jeevan and all those who oppose Prof Kamat as the
moderator of the Citizen's Initiative debate:

The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".

With such narrow discretion left to him, Prof Kamat's past has little
bearing. In fact, it is the best thing that Floriano could have done.
By making him moderator, Kamat cannot give his own views on the
question.

All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.

Whether the outcome of the debate has any bearing on the final outcome
of the issue is less important than having democracy function at it's
best. While any half-wit can be a voter, it takes intelligent people
to direct the course of public policy. We cannot leave this to greedy
politicians.

If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible. Give as
much importance to the getting the DNAs, the Tehelkas, the Outlooks
and the India Todays as given to the local media. The issues discussed
here are relevant to other literate states also.

Regards,
Roland.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write the conclusion before it starts!
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-27 16:07:46 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/27 floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>

[1] CI will not contact any of the above as it has ALREADY IDENTIFIED
the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has ANNOUNCED his name as such.

[2] Therefore, it will be left to Miguel and/or anyone else to
contact the above person/s and convey to the CI (convenor) his/their
wilingness to moderate the debate on 30th. July.

[3] Only then CI will CONSIDER the POSSIBILITY of substituting the
present moderator for the debate.

[4] this first CI debate will set a PRECEDENT for the future debates
and interactions.


jc's comment:

Having read the above from the good Floriano Lobo especially wrt the
choice of words included in the above statement, I see an absolute
'fait accompli' with NO serious attempt at a mutually beneficial
solution to the dilemma of having an allegedly tainted person as the
moderator of the debate.

There also appears to have been no (publicly declared) verification of
the charges against Mr. Kamat.

I agree with Floriano. This first CI debate will certainly set a
precedent for future debates and interactions. But what will be the
precedent?

Will it be one or more of the following:

a: CI did a "Jhalacch Pahije" a la Bandodkar ?

b: CI decided that it must honour it's invitation, come hell - come high water?

c: CI did due diligence on the moderator, and ignored the 'naysayers'?

d: CI decided that a person is innocent until proven guilty?

e: CI decided that the debate is more important than the moderator?

There is one additional precedent that this debate will set ...and
which, the attendance and post debate conversation will decide

i.e. Will this be just another debate which having as much effect on
Goa as the Beach Nonsense courtesy NDTV ...or Will this be the
beginning of serious dialogue among the Goan populace?

Velim based Kon Fu Shius once said: He who have trouble at the start -
always have problem with the race.

jc
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-27 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Roland Francis,
?
The theory of what a "Moderator" can do is not the practice in Goa. This debate is being held in Goa. Period.
?
The "summing up" that the Moderator is allowed to do is what gets quoted by the Press [Print and electornic media], that is always short of space and footage.
?
I am NOT opposed to Prof [?] Madhav S. Kamat. I just?pointed to the futility of the debate with a person like him in charge. If Floriano?can organise to videofilm the entire debate, then it may be of some use.
?
I do not know how many institutions will respond to Floriano Lobo's call for the debate. It is my experience that a single letter does not elicit much response. One needs to visit the institutions personally and elicit participation.At times, one even needs to provide a response sheet for confirmation.?This is Goa where clubs vie with each other for participation by students .....even when there are excellent prizes.?I could be wrong. Let us see on 30 July, 2008.?

?
The point is the media coverage. The PSU organised the Silver Jubilee celebration of the agitation in Neturlim village of Sanguem taluka to demand for a Government Primary school [GPS]?in 1983. My cousin taught at that GPS in mid 1980s. The only transport options for her were 1. Milk van, 2. Mining truck and 3. walk. This remote village near the Selaulim Dam is even today not easily accessible. The programme at Neturlim on 19 July, 2008, had extensive coverage in the vernacular press and on Prudent TV news. No prizes for guessing why.
?
That is why I had suggested a change of Moderator to Floriano Lobo. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel

--- On Sun, 27/7/08, Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
To: miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in, "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Sunday, 27 July, 2008, 3:15 AM


The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".


All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.


If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible.
Regards,
Roland.





On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the
debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write
the conclusion before it starts!



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-28 05:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 04:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
It is now quasi-official that Goa should have a Central University AND the Goa University at the same time.
?
Prof M.S. Kamat is a part of the panel with the GIMS, MICM and MIHCM founder Fr. Romualdo de Souza sj [incidentally, Dr. Willy's brother], Principal Newman Fernandes of the UGC-designated "College with Potential for Excellence" St.Xavier's College-Mapusa, Mr. Suresh Gundu Amoncar of G.S.Amoncar Vidyamandir and only person to have completed two consecutive terms as Chairman of Goa Board of Education and others who I do not know personally but who are obviously qualified to speak about education.
?
Let us see what the debate on 30 July, 2008 at 4.30 P.M. in Institute Menezes Braganza throws up. Let us have an open mind.
?
The next debate must me on the medium of instruction in the village primary schools in the era of global competition and increaing use of English in all walks of life ...and admixture of English in almost all Indian languages spoken today as stated by the authors at a recent conference.
?
Mog asundi
?
Miguel

Navhind Times on 29 July, 2008

Cong panel says no to central varsity status for GU
by RAMNATH N PAI RAIKAR
Principal Correspondent
PANAJI ? A panel constituted by the Goa pradesh Congress committee under the chairmanship of Mr M K Shaikh to present its observations on the proposed centralisation of the Goa University, is of the opinion that Goa University, the only state university, should work as a state-based university and the central government could think of setting up an independent central university for Goa.
The panel members, who deliberated on the related issues at various meetings, are expected to present the report to the GPCC later this week.
Speaking to ?The Navhind Times? Mr Shaikh said the report is under preparation and would take all aspects on centralisation of the GU into consideration.
The panel members include senior educationists namely, Fr Romuald D?Souza, Prof Suresh Amonkar, Prof M S Kamat, Prof Newman Fernandes and Prof Hillary D?Souza.
The panel is of the opinion that although a centralised university in Goa would receive lot of funds from the Union ministry of human resource development, besides quality faculty to teach at this university and better students, there would be certain drawbacks to it such as local students having to compete with national level students, if adequate clauses are not included while transforming the Goa University into a central university,? the sources informed.
The report of the panel would also include recommendation that certain colleges in the state, which have developed themselves into excellent educational institutions should be allowed to run autonomously.
The report is further expected to suggest that though most of the departments at the GU fail to fill up the required quota of students, with the exception of chemistry department, a separate central university could be set up with departments dedicated to educational fields which are not available at the GU.
?The panel is of the opinion that a central university in Goa can be a good research institution, besides being an educational body, and help the students to carry out frontier research,? the sources revealed.
The panel has also taken into account the possibility of many foreign universities opening their shops in Goa in the near future. ?The report may further have references to such possibilities, as an outcome of liberalisation wherein even the government of India cannot stop the influx of foreign universities in the country,? the sources informed, adding, ?Goa being a centre of attraction worldwide, will attract many of such educational institutions and could, in the next 15 years, whether one likes it or not, become an educational hub.?
The report of the panel, in a nutshell, will recommend maintaining the identity of the GU as an autonomous body, with the monitoring and administrative control from the state government, and presentation of its annual report as well as budget in the state assembly, the sources maintained.
The panel is also of the opinion that there is a room for lot of improvement in the GU and the same could be taken up in a phase-wised manner, the sources revealed. ENDS
?
?
?

--- On Mon, 28/7/08, Ajit Shirodkar <shirodkars at gmail.com> wrote:




Good going !!

Ajit


On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Miguel Braganza <miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in> wrote:






Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Here is the solution.



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 16:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Dr. Barad,

Well, I do not know what exactly the abbreviation "M.C." will mean tomorrow ... Master of Ceremony or Master of Confusion [Maestro Confusao]. At best , it is a leap into the unknown .... with two knowns: Dr. Jayant Budkuley and Mr. Sebastian Fernandes aka "Naxalite". Seby has come to town from Sri Lanka. Who else will speak, I do not know.

As far as I know as of now, my role will be to invite Prof. Madhav S.Kamat to take his seat on the dais. If it reminds you of the Pradesh Congress Committee or the CLPC tradition for proposing the name of the CM of PCC Chief, don't blame me. I am no politician.

It does seem peculiar that the Chairman of the Committee on the University "conversion" appointed by the Goa PCC should want to "leak" to a newspaper the contents of the yet-to-be-submitted "Report" .... on the eve of the debate. Can not blame him, though: this is the monsoon season and everything is leaking. Draft rules being framed for the Government are also leaking in Panaji ....and there is nothing official about it! ;-)

We have the Independence Eve Dance, New Year's Eve Dance and Debate Eve "Leaks". Like the Lays advertisement with Saif Ali Khan, Hum kya karen "Control hi nahin hota!" ;-)

I only posted on the net what is available in print ...in black and white and on the newspapers webpage. Its obvious intent is to balance Dr. Budkuley's articles in the same newspaper. Fair and square? Or should I accuse the GPCC panel [with the Moderator as one of its members] of plagiarising my earlier posting on the goanet???

The MC's job is up for grabs if there are any volunteers. I asked Pravin Sabnis and a few others. They declined. There is no money or prestige in that task. Just uncertainty. I have accepted the task only because I am assured that there is no politics involved. I have no problem on who MCs it ... one way or the other. It is the content of the debate that matters.I am expecting Dr. Joe D'Souza, Manoj Joshi, Soter D'Souza, Jason Fernandes, Pravin Sabnis and others to add their thought to the debate.

Are you going to be there? It would be a pleasure to meet you.

Mog asundi.

Miguel

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:00:31 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad" <dr.udaybarad at gmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's

Message-ID: <488ec720.011e6e0a.1312.0ae1 at mx.google.com>

This is in reply to Message No 12, Dated: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 from Miguel
Braganza on above topic.

Miguel, you being accepted as MC for the Open Academic Public Debate, to be
held tomorrow, on - SHOULD GOA VARSITY GO CENTRAL - after all your IF's &
BUT's, I think you should have refrained yourself in writing on this
subject.

Any way, Miguel let's see what public have to say on this issue on 30th till than refrain yourself from writing anything on this issue.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.

It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
floriano
2008-07-25 07:59:26 UTC
Permalink
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts' ......... thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.

BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is not the MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the RTI information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is doing sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left right and center.

(And he has promissed to share with me as and when something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))

And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any one, even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.

floriano
goasuraj



----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar" <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
Dr. U. G. Barad
2008-07-25 14:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Goa is gripped from all sides and Goans have -n- number of questions to be
answered. But this does not mean any question(s) can be asked or should be
asked in any forum(s).

I believe Citizens Initiative (CI) is formed to initiate a debate on whether
Goa University should be converted into Central university or not. Therefore
there should be thorough discussion only on this main topic and nothing
else. I feel all Goans must pose as many questions on this issue as possible
and I am confident that CI will try to put them across the open forum.

As regards competency of Prof. Kamat to be a moderator I think CI rightly
named him as Moderator for the meeting.

On this issue I am with Roland.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 16:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Gift for Prof. Kamat? If a China trip on taxpayer's money is not
a gift, I dont know what Floriano thinks a gift is.

Ask for all the board resolutions, nothing less, from Prof.
Kamat.
And I would like to know what comments Prof. Kamat made in
those
board meetings which passed the resolutions.

What RTI resolution has Goa Suraj filed ? I would like to
know
the details. From past experience and
even Floriano you have the experience, we all know
what a boboo you did of
the last RTI application filed about Infotech.


I would be personally interested in knowing how much tax
payers'
money was spent and what came out of it.

Also, there were lot of issues such as a cricket stadium
was planned.
Wasnit it during Prof. Kamat's tenure ? I would like to
know what
were Prof. Kamat's comments (if he was on the board at
the time)
about siphoning Infotech money for a cricket stadium.

Bottom line, I know only a piece or two, but only all the
board
resolutions during Prof. Kamat's tenure and Prof.
Kamat's comments
on it can resolve this questions, nothing less.

And Prof. Kamat is eminently guilty if he is waiting for
others
to take Infotech to court and get results. So, Prof. Kamat
will
say yes to Narvekar for everything and it is guys like Samir Kelekar
will have to take Infotech to court to get results by
spending their
own hard earned money.

Man, I would say that if this is the case which seem to be,
then Goa
Suraj is also eminently guilty if it hosts such a guy as a
moderator. They might as well ask Narvekar to moderate this instead!

And being a board member makes one liable even legally and
surely
morally. One need not be an MD or an executive director.

And absolutely no conditions here from my side to Goa Suraj. They
can as well field as many candidates, have as many debates, and
get as many votes as they have been getting.

They could also take money and lunches from mine owners in one
election and ask for a social boycott of mine owners in another.

I mean there is something called Intellectual quotient.

regards,
Samir
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, floriano
From: floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
To: samir_kelekar at yahoo.com, "Goa's premiere
mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:29 PM
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts'
.........
thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.
BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is
not the
MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the
RTI
information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is
doing
sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left
right
and center.
(And he has promissed to share with me as and when
something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of
Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))
And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any
one,
even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.
floriano
goasuraj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar"
<samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward
allegations or
Post by Samir Kelekar
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may
well be
true) while keeping
Post by Samir Kelekar
yourself in the background while you make
them.
Post by Samir Kelekar
What you mean by background? I have asked the
questions openly, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on
a
public forum.
Post by Samir Kelekar
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to
your
questions. What if
Post by Samir Kelekar
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who
has
the necessary
Post by Samir Kelekar
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions
and
seek answers before
Post by Samir Kelekar
the meeting and then make a decision on whether
to
have Prof. Kamat
Post by Samir Kelekar
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post
Prof.
Kamat's answers
Post by Samir Kelekar
either here on Goanet or send them to me
personally on
email, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many
others
capable on Goanet
Post by Samir Kelekar
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof.
Kamat's position has
Post by Samir Kelekar
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-26 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/26 Jeevan R <jeevanb77 at gmail.com> wrote: I believe Mr. M. S.
Kamat is a retired Principal of MES college, Vasco. I wonder if he has
any experience of university functioning, research, etc. at the
highest level. He being an in charge of some unknown, ministerially
tainted, non academic govt agency says all. Some honorable and retired
University Professor will be a better choice as a moderator for a
debate concerning University issues.


jc's response:

I have less of a problem with Mr MS Kamat not having much experience
of University functioning, as I have of the allegation made about him
being tainted.

He is asked to be a moderator of a debate, and not the one to help
Goans make up their mind about GU.

No tainted person can effectively serve as a moderator.

Accordingly, the organisers of this debate (IF they are really
serious) should confirm (after verifying the facts themselves) whether
Mr. Kamat is tainted or not.

No decision is irreversible.

The organisers of the debate, and the debate itself - will have more
credibility IF they do the right thing.

If they refuse to verify - they would be perceived as being no
different than the Alibaba gang.

I find it very strange that Goa University could NOT fine one solitary
Goan academic to head it. The same story with regard to major
departments in Goa. Please see the following attached. This is written
circa the same time as Orlando Ribeiro wrote his strange stuff.
Wonder why Eduardo Faleiro did not balance his statement with that
from an Indian visitor of the time.

jc

http://www.colaco.net/4/GoaLib18.htm (courtesy Livia de Abreu
Noronha, Oeiras, Portugal, May 24, 2002)

from "Goa and Ourselves" written in 1955 in Bombay by the Indian
lawyer B.K. Bohman-Behram, M.A., LL.B.:

Political Aspect:

"...There are about 4500 Goan Civil Servants in Portuguese India,
whilst those who come from Metropolitan Portugal are said to amount to
a few dozen. As against that it is pointed out that there is a
substantial number of Goans in Portugal itself who hold public offices
or pursue liberal professions and are allowed to do so as equals.

The fact seems to be incontrovertible that Goa is not a source of
employment for the sons of Portugal, but that, on the other hand, the
whole of Portugal including its overseas possessions in Asia and
Africa is open to and flooded with the sons of Goa."

Cultural Aspect:

"...Portuguese India with a population of 600,000 is partly Christian
and partly Hindu by a half to half proportion - a proportion that
tilts in favour of the Christians if the thousands of Goan immigrants,
who still retain their Portuguese nationality, are taken into account.

The Christians are an orientalized Neo-latin type. The Hindus, by
reason of their customs and usages having been protected by a special
Portuguese law and by the fact that they constantly intermingled with
their neighbouring co-religionists, did not integrate so much in the
sociological ethnography of Goa and it cannot be said that the process
of lusitanisation is complete in them.

But, it is pointed out, the Hindus of Portuguese India, linked by
centuries of political tradition to things Portuguese, are a
Portuguese type. A particular system of Government and certain
environment prevailing for centuries naturally changes the character
of a people and the Hindus of Goa definitely differ from Hindus
inhabiting the adjoining territories.

One has to meet them to notice their Western mannerism, one has to
enter the homes of the prominent amongst them to find in them a past
or present Portuguese Baron, a Viscount or at least a Knight Commander
with the venera displayed in a conspicuous place by the side of a
photograph of the President of the Portuguese Republic.

"Goans as a result of a cultural process of centuries are different
from their neighbours. They generally feel that Goa cannot therefore
merge if it is going to preserve its soul, its identity, its ethos.

They know that India has throughout its hoary past absorbed several
cultures and passed them through the filter of Hinduism. From the
Aryans to the Greeks, from the Greeks to the Persians, they came and
conquered and were conquered and absorbed, except the Muslims.
Pakistan was the result of the fear that Muslims had of being
politically dominated and culturally absorbed by the Hindus.

"Our own Government implicitly recognised the cultural distinction
between the Goans and the peoples of the Indian Union when it once
stated that ?The Government of India demands a transfer of Portuguese
possessions in India with the guarantee of respecting their culture,
language, laws and customs and not to change them without their
consent?.

"Look at any facet you like of Goan life and you will see Portugal
deeply reflected in it. Ethnically and culturally, the Goans have been
moulded to the Lusitanian type and true to that type they remain by
tradition and choice."
Roland Francis
2008-07-27 04:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Miguel, Samir, Jeevan and all those who oppose Prof Kamat as the
moderator of the Citizen's Initiative debate:

The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".

With such narrow discretion left to him, Prof Kamat's past has little
bearing. In fact, it is the best thing that Floriano could have done.
By making him moderator, Kamat cannot give his own views on the
question.

All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.

Whether the outcome of the debate has any bearing on the final outcome
of the issue is less important than having democracy function at it's
best. While any half-wit can be a voter, it takes intelligent people
to direct the course of public policy. We cannot leave this to greedy
politicians.

If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible. Give as
much importance to the getting the DNAs, the Tehelkas, the Outlooks
and the India Todays as given to the local media. The issues discussed
here are relevant to other literate states also.

Regards,
Roland.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write the conclusion before it starts!
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-27 16:07:46 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/27 floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>

[1] CI will not contact any of the above as it has ALREADY IDENTIFIED
the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has ANNOUNCED his name as such.

[2] Therefore, it will be left to Miguel and/or anyone else to
contact the above person/s and convey to the CI (convenor) his/their
wilingness to moderate the debate on 30th. July.

[3] Only then CI will CONSIDER the POSSIBILITY of substituting the
present moderator for the debate.

[4] this first CI debate will set a PRECEDENT for the future debates
and interactions.


jc's comment:

Having read the above from the good Floriano Lobo especially wrt the
choice of words included in the above statement, I see an absolute
'fait accompli' with NO serious attempt at a mutually beneficial
solution to the dilemma of having an allegedly tainted person as the
moderator of the debate.

There also appears to have been no (publicly declared) verification of
the charges against Mr. Kamat.

I agree with Floriano. This first CI debate will certainly set a
precedent for future debates and interactions. But what will be the
precedent?

Will it be one or more of the following:

a: CI did a "Jhalacch Pahije" a la Bandodkar ?

b: CI decided that it must honour it's invitation, come hell - come high water?

c: CI did due diligence on the moderator, and ignored the 'naysayers'?

d: CI decided that a person is innocent until proven guilty?

e: CI decided that the debate is more important than the moderator?

There is one additional precedent that this debate will set ...and
which, the attendance and post debate conversation will decide

i.e. Will this be just another debate which having as much effect on
Goa as the Beach Nonsense courtesy NDTV ...or Will this be the
beginning of serious dialogue among the Goan populace?

Velim based Kon Fu Shius once said: He who have trouble at the start -
always have problem with the race.

jc
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-27 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Roland Francis,
?
The theory of what a "Moderator" can do is not the practice in Goa. This debate is being held in Goa. Period.
?
The "summing up" that the Moderator is allowed to do is what gets quoted by the Press [Print and electornic media], that is always short of space and footage.
?
I am NOT opposed to Prof [?] Madhav S. Kamat. I just?pointed to the futility of the debate with a person like him in charge. If Floriano?can organise to videofilm the entire debate, then it may be of some use.
?
I do not know how many institutions will respond to Floriano Lobo's call for the debate. It is my experience that a single letter does not elicit much response. One needs to visit the institutions personally and elicit participation.At times, one even needs to provide a response sheet for confirmation.?This is Goa where clubs vie with each other for participation by students .....even when there are excellent prizes.?I could be wrong. Let us see on 30 July, 2008.?

?
The point is the media coverage. The PSU organised the Silver Jubilee celebration of the agitation in Neturlim village of Sanguem taluka to demand for a Government Primary school [GPS]?in 1983. My cousin taught at that GPS in mid 1980s. The only transport options for her were 1. Milk van, 2. Mining truck and 3. walk. This remote village near the Selaulim Dam is even today not easily accessible. The programme at Neturlim on 19 July, 2008, had extensive coverage in the vernacular press and on Prudent TV news. No prizes for guessing why.
?
That is why I had suggested a change of Moderator to Floriano Lobo. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel

--- On Sun, 27/7/08, Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
To: miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in, "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Sunday, 27 July, 2008, 3:15 AM


The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".


All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.


If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible.
Regards,
Roland.





On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the
debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write
the conclusion before it starts!



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-28 05:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 04:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
It is now quasi-official that Goa should have a Central University AND the Goa University at the same time.
?
Prof M.S. Kamat is a part of the panel with the GIMS, MICM and MIHCM founder Fr. Romualdo de Souza sj [incidentally, Dr. Willy's brother], Principal Newman Fernandes of the UGC-designated "College with Potential for Excellence" St.Xavier's College-Mapusa, Mr. Suresh Gundu Amoncar of G.S.Amoncar Vidyamandir and only person to have completed two consecutive terms as Chairman of Goa Board of Education and others who I do not know personally but who are obviously qualified to speak about education.
?
Let us see what the debate on 30 July, 2008 at 4.30 P.M. in Institute Menezes Braganza throws up. Let us have an open mind.
?
The next debate must me on the medium of instruction in the village primary schools in the era of global competition and increaing use of English in all walks of life ...and admixture of English in almost all Indian languages spoken today as stated by the authors at a recent conference.
?
Mog asundi
?
Miguel

Navhind Times on 29 July, 2008

Cong panel says no to central varsity status for GU
by RAMNATH N PAI RAIKAR
Principal Correspondent
PANAJI ? A panel constituted by the Goa pradesh Congress committee under the chairmanship of Mr M K Shaikh to present its observations on the proposed centralisation of the Goa University, is of the opinion that Goa University, the only state university, should work as a state-based university and the central government could think of setting up an independent central university for Goa.
The panel members, who deliberated on the related issues at various meetings, are expected to present the report to the GPCC later this week.
Speaking to ?The Navhind Times? Mr Shaikh said the report is under preparation and would take all aspects on centralisation of the GU into consideration.
The panel members include senior educationists namely, Fr Romuald D?Souza, Prof Suresh Amonkar, Prof M S Kamat, Prof Newman Fernandes and Prof Hillary D?Souza.
The panel is of the opinion that although a centralised university in Goa would receive lot of funds from the Union ministry of human resource development, besides quality faculty to teach at this university and better students, there would be certain drawbacks to it such as local students having to compete with national level students, if adequate clauses are not included while transforming the Goa University into a central university,? the sources informed.
The report of the panel would also include recommendation that certain colleges in the state, which have developed themselves into excellent educational institutions should be allowed to run autonomously.
The report is further expected to suggest that though most of the departments at the GU fail to fill up the required quota of students, with the exception of chemistry department, a separate central university could be set up with departments dedicated to educational fields which are not available at the GU.
?The panel is of the opinion that a central university in Goa can be a good research institution, besides being an educational body, and help the students to carry out frontier research,? the sources revealed.
The panel has also taken into account the possibility of many foreign universities opening their shops in Goa in the near future. ?The report may further have references to such possibilities, as an outcome of liberalisation wherein even the government of India cannot stop the influx of foreign universities in the country,? the sources informed, adding, ?Goa being a centre of attraction worldwide, will attract many of such educational institutions and could, in the next 15 years, whether one likes it or not, become an educational hub.?
The report of the panel, in a nutshell, will recommend maintaining the identity of the GU as an autonomous body, with the monitoring and administrative control from the state government, and presentation of its annual report as well as budget in the state assembly, the sources maintained.
The panel is also of the opinion that there is a room for lot of improvement in the GU and the same could be taken up in a phase-wised manner, the sources revealed. ENDS
?
?
?

--- On Mon, 28/7/08, Ajit Shirodkar <shirodkars at gmail.com> wrote:




Good going !!

Ajit


On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Miguel Braganza <miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in> wrote:






Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Here is the solution.



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 16:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Dr. Barad,

Well, I do not know what exactly the abbreviation "M.C." will mean tomorrow ... Master of Ceremony or Master of Confusion [Maestro Confusao]. At best , it is a leap into the unknown .... with two knowns: Dr. Jayant Budkuley and Mr. Sebastian Fernandes aka "Naxalite". Seby has come to town from Sri Lanka. Who else will speak, I do not know.

As far as I know as of now, my role will be to invite Prof. Madhav S.Kamat to take his seat on the dais. If it reminds you of the Pradesh Congress Committee or the CLPC tradition for proposing the name of the CM of PCC Chief, don't blame me. I am no politician.

It does seem peculiar that the Chairman of the Committee on the University "conversion" appointed by the Goa PCC should want to "leak" to a newspaper the contents of the yet-to-be-submitted "Report" .... on the eve of the debate. Can not blame him, though: this is the monsoon season and everything is leaking. Draft rules being framed for the Government are also leaking in Panaji ....and there is nothing official about it! ;-)

We have the Independence Eve Dance, New Year's Eve Dance and Debate Eve "Leaks". Like the Lays advertisement with Saif Ali Khan, Hum kya karen "Control hi nahin hota!" ;-)

I only posted on the net what is available in print ...in black and white and on the newspapers webpage. Its obvious intent is to balance Dr. Budkuley's articles in the same newspaper. Fair and square? Or should I accuse the GPCC panel [with the Moderator as one of its members] of plagiarising my earlier posting on the goanet???

The MC's job is up for grabs if there are any volunteers. I asked Pravin Sabnis and a few others. They declined. There is no money or prestige in that task. Just uncertainty. I have accepted the task only because I am assured that there is no politics involved. I have no problem on who MCs it ... one way or the other. It is the content of the debate that matters.I am expecting Dr. Joe D'Souza, Manoj Joshi, Soter D'Souza, Jason Fernandes, Pravin Sabnis and others to add their thought to the debate.

Are you going to be there? It would be a pleasure to meet you.

Mog asundi.

Miguel

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:00:31 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad" <dr.udaybarad at gmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's

Message-ID: <488ec720.011e6e0a.1312.0ae1 at mx.google.com>

This is in reply to Message No 12, Dated: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 from Miguel
Braganza on above topic.

Miguel, you being accepted as MC for the Open Academic Public Debate, to be
held tomorrow, on - SHOULD GOA VARSITY GO CENTRAL - after all your IF's &
BUT's, I think you should have refrained yourself in writing on this
subject.

Any way, Miguel let's see what public have to say on this issue on 30th till than refrain yourself from writing anything on this issue.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.

It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
floriano
2008-07-25 07:59:26 UTC
Permalink
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts' ......... thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.

BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is not the MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the RTI information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is doing sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left right and center.

(And he has promissed to share with me as and when something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))

And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any one, even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.

floriano
goasuraj



----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar" <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
Dr. U. G. Barad
2008-07-25 14:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Goa is gripped from all sides and Goans have -n- number of questions to be
answered. But this does not mean any question(s) can be asked or should be
asked in any forum(s).

I believe Citizens Initiative (CI) is formed to initiate a debate on whether
Goa University should be converted into Central university or not. Therefore
there should be thorough discussion only on this main topic and nothing
else. I feel all Goans must pose as many questions on this issue as possible
and I am confident that CI will try to put them across the open forum.

As regards competency of Prof. Kamat to be a moderator I think CI rightly
named him as Moderator for the meeting.

On this issue I am with Roland.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 16:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Gift for Prof. Kamat? If a China trip on taxpayer's money is not
a gift, I dont know what Floriano thinks a gift is.

Ask for all the board resolutions, nothing less, from Prof.
Kamat.
And I would like to know what comments Prof. Kamat made in
those
board meetings which passed the resolutions.

What RTI resolution has Goa Suraj filed ? I would like to
know
the details. From past experience and
even Floriano you have the experience, we all know
what a boboo you did of
the last RTI application filed about Infotech.


I would be personally interested in knowing how much tax
payers'
money was spent and what came out of it.

Also, there were lot of issues such as a cricket stadium
was planned.
Wasnit it during Prof. Kamat's tenure ? I would like to
know what
were Prof. Kamat's comments (if he was on the board at
the time)
about siphoning Infotech money for a cricket stadium.

Bottom line, I know only a piece or two, but only all the
board
resolutions during Prof. Kamat's tenure and Prof.
Kamat's comments
on it can resolve this questions, nothing less.

And Prof. Kamat is eminently guilty if he is waiting for
others
to take Infotech to court and get results. So, Prof. Kamat
will
say yes to Narvekar for everything and it is guys like Samir Kelekar
will have to take Infotech to court to get results by
spending their
own hard earned money.

Man, I would say that if this is the case which seem to be,
then Goa
Suraj is also eminently guilty if it hosts such a guy as a
moderator. They might as well ask Narvekar to moderate this instead!

And being a board member makes one liable even legally and
surely
morally. One need not be an MD or an executive director.

And absolutely no conditions here from my side to Goa Suraj. They
can as well field as many candidates, have as many debates, and
get as many votes as they have been getting.

They could also take money and lunches from mine owners in one
election and ask for a social boycott of mine owners in another.

I mean there is something called Intellectual quotient.

regards,
Samir
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, floriano
From: floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
To: samir_kelekar at yahoo.com, "Goa's premiere
mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:29 PM
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts'
.........
thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.
BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is
not the
MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the
RTI
information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is
doing
sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left
right
and center.
(And he has promissed to share with me as and when
something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of
Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))
And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any
one,
even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.
floriano
goasuraj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar"
<samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward
allegations or
Post by Samir Kelekar
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may
well be
true) while keeping
Post by Samir Kelekar
yourself in the background while you make
them.
Post by Samir Kelekar
What you mean by background? I have asked the
questions openly, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on
a
public forum.
Post by Samir Kelekar
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to
your
questions. What if
Post by Samir Kelekar
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who
has
the necessary
Post by Samir Kelekar
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions
and
seek answers before
Post by Samir Kelekar
the meeting and then make a decision on whether
to
have Prof. Kamat
Post by Samir Kelekar
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post
Prof.
Kamat's answers
Post by Samir Kelekar
either here on Goanet or send them to me
personally on
email, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many
others
capable on Goanet
Post by Samir Kelekar
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof.
Kamat's position has
Post by Samir Kelekar
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-26 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/26 Jeevan R <jeevanb77 at gmail.com> wrote: I believe Mr. M. S.
Kamat is a retired Principal of MES college, Vasco. I wonder if he has
any experience of university functioning, research, etc. at the
highest level. He being an in charge of some unknown, ministerially
tainted, non academic govt agency says all. Some honorable and retired
University Professor will be a better choice as a moderator for a
debate concerning University issues.


jc's response:

I have less of a problem with Mr MS Kamat not having much experience
of University functioning, as I have of the allegation made about him
being tainted.

He is asked to be a moderator of a debate, and not the one to help
Goans make up their mind about GU.

No tainted person can effectively serve as a moderator.

Accordingly, the organisers of this debate (IF they are really
serious) should confirm (after verifying the facts themselves) whether
Mr. Kamat is tainted or not.

No decision is irreversible.

The organisers of the debate, and the debate itself - will have more
credibility IF they do the right thing.

If they refuse to verify - they would be perceived as being no
different than the Alibaba gang.

I find it very strange that Goa University could NOT fine one solitary
Goan academic to head it. The same story with regard to major
departments in Goa. Please see the following attached. This is written
circa the same time as Orlando Ribeiro wrote his strange stuff.
Wonder why Eduardo Faleiro did not balance his statement with that
from an Indian visitor of the time.

jc

http://www.colaco.net/4/GoaLib18.htm (courtesy Livia de Abreu
Noronha, Oeiras, Portugal, May 24, 2002)

from "Goa and Ourselves" written in 1955 in Bombay by the Indian
lawyer B.K. Bohman-Behram, M.A., LL.B.:

Political Aspect:

"...There are about 4500 Goan Civil Servants in Portuguese India,
whilst those who come from Metropolitan Portugal are said to amount to
a few dozen. As against that it is pointed out that there is a
substantial number of Goans in Portugal itself who hold public offices
or pursue liberal professions and are allowed to do so as equals.

The fact seems to be incontrovertible that Goa is not a source of
employment for the sons of Portugal, but that, on the other hand, the
whole of Portugal including its overseas possessions in Asia and
Africa is open to and flooded with the sons of Goa."

Cultural Aspect:

"...Portuguese India with a population of 600,000 is partly Christian
and partly Hindu by a half to half proportion - a proportion that
tilts in favour of the Christians if the thousands of Goan immigrants,
who still retain their Portuguese nationality, are taken into account.

The Christians are an orientalized Neo-latin type. The Hindus, by
reason of their customs and usages having been protected by a special
Portuguese law and by the fact that they constantly intermingled with
their neighbouring co-religionists, did not integrate so much in the
sociological ethnography of Goa and it cannot be said that the process
of lusitanisation is complete in them.

But, it is pointed out, the Hindus of Portuguese India, linked by
centuries of political tradition to things Portuguese, are a
Portuguese type. A particular system of Government and certain
environment prevailing for centuries naturally changes the character
of a people and the Hindus of Goa definitely differ from Hindus
inhabiting the adjoining territories.

One has to meet them to notice their Western mannerism, one has to
enter the homes of the prominent amongst them to find in them a past
or present Portuguese Baron, a Viscount or at least a Knight Commander
with the venera displayed in a conspicuous place by the side of a
photograph of the President of the Portuguese Republic.

"Goans as a result of a cultural process of centuries are different
from their neighbours. They generally feel that Goa cannot therefore
merge if it is going to preserve its soul, its identity, its ethos.

They know that India has throughout its hoary past absorbed several
cultures and passed them through the filter of Hinduism. From the
Aryans to the Greeks, from the Greeks to the Persians, they came and
conquered and were conquered and absorbed, except the Muslims.
Pakistan was the result of the fear that Muslims had of being
politically dominated and culturally absorbed by the Hindus.

"Our own Government implicitly recognised the cultural distinction
between the Goans and the peoples of the Indian Union when it once
stated that ?The Government of India demands a transfer of Portuguese
possessions in India with the guarantee of respecting their culture,
language, laws and customs and not to change them without their
consent?.

"Look at any facet you like of Goan life and you will see Portugal
deeply reflected in it. Ethnically and culturally, the Goans have been
moulded to the Lusitanian type and true to that type they remain by
tradition and choice."
Roland Francis
2008-07-27 04:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Miguel, Samir, Jeevan and all those who oppose Prof Kamat as the
moderator of the Citizen's Initiative debate:

The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".

With such narrow discretion left to him, Prof Kamat's past has little
bearing. In fact, it is the best thing that Floriano could have done.
By making him moderator, Kamat cannot give his own views on the
question.

All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.

Whether the outcome of the debate has any bearing on the final outcome
of the issue is less important than having democracy function at it's
best. While any half-wit can be a voter, it takes intelligent people
to direct the course of public policy. We cannot leave this to greedy
politicians.

If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible. Give as
much importance to the getting the DNAs, the Tehelkas, the Outlooks
and the India Todays as given to the local media. The issues discussed
here are relevant to other literate states also.

Regards,
Roland.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write the conclusion before it starts!
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-27 16:07:46 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/27 floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>

[1] CI will not contact any of the above as it has ALREADY IDENTIFIED
the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has ANNOUNCED his name as such.

[2] Therefore, it will be left to Miguel and/or anyone else to
contact the above person/s and convey to the CI (convenor) his/their
wilingness to moderate the debate on 30th. July.

[3] Only then CI will CONSIDER the POSSIBILITY of substituting the
present moderator for the debate.

[4] this first CI debate will set a PRECEDENT for the future debates
and interactions.


jc's comment:

Having read the above from the good Floriano Lobo especially wrt the
choice of words included in the above statement, I see an absolute
'fait accompli' with NO serious attempt at a mutually beneficial
solution to the dilemma of having an allegedly tainted person as the
moderator of the debate.

There also appears to have been no (publicly declared) verification of
the charges against Mr. Kamat.

I agree with Floriano. This first CI debate will certainly set a
precedent for future debates and interactions. But what will be the
precedent?

Will it be one or more of the following:

a: CI did a "Jhalacch Pahije" a la Bandodkar ?

b: CI decided that it must honour it's invitation, come hell - come high water?

c: CI did due diligence on the moderator, and ignored the 'naysayers'?

d: CI decided that a person is innocent until proven guilty?

e: CI decided that the debate is more important than the moderator?

There is one additional precedent that this debate will set ...and
which, the attendance and post debate conversation will decide

i.e. Will this be just another debate which having as much effect on
Goa as the Beach Nonsense courtesy NDTV ...or Will this be the
beginning of serious dialogue among the Goan populace?

Velim based Kon Fu Shius once said: He who have trouble at the start -
always have problem with the race.

jc
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-27 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Roland Francis,
?
The theory of what a "Moderator" can do is not the practice in Goa. This debate is being held in Goa. Period.
?
The "summing up" that the Moderator is allowed to do is what gets quoted by the Press [Print and electornic media], that is always short of space and footage.
?
I am NOT opposed to Prof [?] Madhav S. Kamat. I just?pointed to the futility of the debate with a person like him in charge. If Floriano?can organise to videofilm the entire debate, then it may be of some use.
?
I do not know how many institutions will respond to Floriano Lobo's call for the debate. It is my experience that a single letter does not elicit much response. One needs to visit the institutions personally and elicit participation.At times, one even needs to provide a response sheet for confirmation.?This is Goa where clubs vie with each other for participation by students .....even when there are excellent prizes.?I could be wrong. Let us see on 30 July, 2008.?

?
The point is the media coverage. The PSU organised the Silver Jubilee celebration of the agitation in Neturlim village of Sanguem taluka to demand for a Government Primary school [GPS]?in 1983. My cousin taught at that GPS in mid 1980s. The only transport options for her were 1. Milk van, 2. Mining truck and 3. walk. This remote village near the Selaulim Dam is even today not easily accessible. The programme at Neturlim on 19 July, 2008, had extensive coverage in the vernacular press and on Prudent TV news. No prizes for guessing why.
?
That is why I had suggested a change of Moderator to Floriano Lobo. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel

--- On Sun, 27/7/08, Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
To: miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in, "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Sunday, 27 July, 2008, 3:15 AM


The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".


All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.


If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible.
Regards,
Roland.





On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the
debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write
the conclusion before it starts!



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-28 05:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 04:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
It is now quasi-official that Goa should have a Central University AND the Goa University at the same time.
?
Prof M.S. Kamat is a part of the panel with the GIMS, MICM and MIHCM founder Fr. Romualdo de Souza sj [incidentally, Dr. Willy's brother], Principal Newman Fernandes of the UGC-designated "College with Potential for Excellence" St.Xavier's College-Mapusa, Mr. Suresh Gundu Amoncar of G.S.Amoncar Vidyamandir and only person to have completed two consecutive terms as Chairman of Goa Board of Education and others who I do not know personally but who are obviously qualified to speak about education.
?
Let us see what the debate on 30 July, 2008 at 4.30 P.M. in Institute Menezes Braganza throws up. Let us have an open mind.
?
The next debate must me on the medium of instruction in the village primary schools in the era of global competition and increaing use of English in all walks of life ...and admixture of English in almost all Indian languages spoken today as stated by the authors at a recent conference.
?
Mog asundi
?
Miguel

Navhind Times on 29 July, 2008

Cong panel says no to central varsity status for GU
by RAMNATH N PAI RAIKAR
Principal Correspondent
PANAJI ? A panel constituted by the Goa pradesh Congress committee under the chairmanship of Mr M K Shaikh to present its observations on the proposed centralisation of the Goa University, is of the opinion that Goa University, the only state university, should work as a state-based university and the central government could think of setting up an independent central university for Goa.
The panel members, who deliberated on the related issues at various meetings, are expected to present the report to the GPCC later this week.
Speaking to ?The Navhind Times? Mr Shaikh said the report is under preparation and would take all aspects on centralisation of the GU into consideration.
The panel members include senior educationists namely, Fr Romuald D?Souza, Prof Suresh Amonkar, Prof M S Kamat, Prof Newman Fernandes and Prof Hillary D?Souza.
The panel is of the opinion that although a centralised university in Goa would receive lot of funds from the Union ministry of human resource development, besides quality faculty to teach at this university and better students, there would be certain drawbacks to it such as local students having to compete with national level students, if adequate clauses are not included while transforming the Goa University into a central university,? the sources informed.
The report of the panel would also include recommendation that certain colleges in the state, which have developed themselves into excellent educational institutions should be allowed to run autonomously.
The report is further expected to suggest that though most of the departments at the GU fail to fill up the required quota of students, with the exception of chemistry department, a separate central university could be set up with departments dedicated to educational fields which are not available at the GU.
?The panel is of the opinion that a central university in Goa can be a good research institution, besides being an educational body, and help the students to carry out frontier research,? the sources revealed.
The panel has also taken into account the possibility of many foreign universities opening their shops in Goa in the near future. ?The report may further have references to such possibilities, as an outcome of liberalisation wherein even the government of India cannot stop the influx of foreign universities in the country,? the sources informed, adding, ?Goa being a centre of attraction worldwide, will attract many of such educational institutions and could, in the next 15 years, whether one likes it or not, become an educational hub.?
The report of the panel, in a nutshell, will recommend maintaining the identity of the GU as an autonomous body, with the monitoring and administrative control from the state government, and presentation of its annual report as well as budget in the state assembly, the sources maintained.
The panel is also of the opinion that there is a room for lot of improvement in the GU and the same could be taken up in a phase-wised manner, the sources revealed. ENDS
?
?
?

--- On Mon, 28/7/08, Ajit Shirodkar <shirodkars at gmail.com> wrote:




Good going !!

Ajit


On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Miguel Braganza <miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in> wrote:






Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Here is the solution.



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 16:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Dr. Barad,

Well, I do not know what exactly the abbreviation "M.C." will mean tomorrow ... Master of Ceremony or Master of Confusion [Maestro Confusao]. At best , it is a leap into the unknown .... with two knowns: Dr. Jayant Budkuley and Mr. Sebastian Fernandes aka "Naxalite". Seby has come to town from Sri Lanka. Who else will speak, I do not know.

As far as I know as of now, my role will be to invite Prof. Madhav S.Kamat to take his seat on the dais. If it reminds you of the Pradesh Congress Committee or the CLPC tradition for proposing the name of the CM of PCC Chief, don't blame me. I am no politician.

It does seem peculiar that the Chairman of the Committee on the University "conversion" appointed by the Goa PCC should want to "leak" to a newspaper the contents of the yet-to-be-submitted "Report" .... on the eve of the debate. Can not blame him, though: this is the monsoon season and everything is leaking. Draft rules being framed for the Government are also leaking in Panaji ....and there is nothing official about it! ;-)

We have the Independence Eve Dance, New Year's Eve Dance and Debate Eve "Leaks". Like the Lays advertisement with Saif Ali Khan, Hum kya karen "Control hi nahin hota!" ;-)

I only posted on the net what is available in print ...in black and white and on the newspapers webpage. Its obvious intent is to balance Dr. Budkuley's articles in the same newspaper. Fair and square? Or should I accuse the GPCC panel [with the Moderator as one of its members] of plagiarising my earlier posting on the goanet???

The MC's job is up for grabs if there are any volunteers. I asked Pravin Sabnis and a few others. They declined. There is no money or prestige in that task. Just uncertainty. I have accepted the task only because I am assured that there is no politics involved. I have no problem on who MCs it ... one way or the other. It is the content of the debate that matters.I am expecting Dr. Joe D'Souza, Manoj Joshi, Soter D'Souza, Jason Fernandes, Pravin Sabnis and others to add their thought to the debate.

Are you going to be there? It would be a pleasure to meet you.

Mog asundi.

Miguel

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:00:31 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad" <dr.udaybarad at gmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's

Message-ID: <488ec720.011e6e0a.1312.0ae1 at mx.google.com>

This is in reply to Message No 12, Dated: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 from Miguel
Braganza on above topic.

Miguel, you being accepted as MC for the Open Academic Public Debate, to be
held tomorrow, on - SHOULD GOA VARSITY GO CENTRAL - after all your IF's &
BUT's, I think you should have refrained yourself in writing on this
subject.

Any way, Miguel let's see what public have to say on this issue on 30th till than refrain yourself from writing anything on this issue.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.

It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
floriano
2008-07-25 07:59:26 UTC
Permalink
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts' ......... thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.

BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is not the MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the RTI information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is doing sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left right and center.

(And he has promissed to share with me as and when something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))

And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any one, even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.

floriano
goasuraj



----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar" <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward allegations or
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may well be true) while keeping
yourself in the background while you make them.
What you mean by background? I have asked the questions openly, and
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on a public forum.
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to your questions. What if
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who has the necessary
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions and seek answers before
the meeting and then make a decision on whether to have Prof. Kamat
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post Prof. Kamat's answers
either here on Goanet or send them to me personally on email, and
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many others capable on Goanet
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof. Kamat's position has
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
Dr. U. G. Barad
2008-07-25 14:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Goa is gripped from all sides and Goans have -n- number of questions to be
answered. But this does not mean any question(s) can be asked or should be
asked in any forum(s).

I believe Citizens Initiative (CI) is formed to initiate a debate on whether
Goa University should be converted into Central university or not. Therefore
there should be thorough discussion only on this main topic and nothing
else. I feel all Goans must pose as many questions on this issue as possible
and I am confident that CI will try to put them across the open forum.

As regards competency of Prof. Kamat to be a moderator I think CI rightly
named him as Moderator for the meeting.

On this issue I am with Roland.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad
Samir Kelekar
2008-07-25 16:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Gift for Prof. Kamat? If a China trip on taxpayer's money is not
a gift, I dont know what Floriano thinks a gift is.

Ask for all the board resolutions, nothing less, from Prof.
Kamat.
And I would like to know what comments Prof. Kamat made in
those
board meetings which passed the resolutions.

What RTI resolution has Goa Suraj filed ? I would like to
know
the details. From past experience and
even Floriano you have the experience, we all know
what a boboo you did of
the last RTI application filed about Infotech.


I would be personally interested in knowing how much tax
payers'
money was spent and what came out of it.

Also, there were lot of issues such as a cricket stadium
was planned.
Wasnit it during Prof. Kamat's tenure ? I would like to
know what
were Prof. Kamat's comments (if he was on the board at
the time)
about siphoning Infotech money for a cricket stadium.

Bottom line, I know only a piece or two, but only all the
board
resolutions during Prof. Kamat's tenure and Prof.
Kamat's comments
on it can resolve this questions, nothing less.

And Prof. Kamat is eminently guilty if he is waiting for
others
to take Infotech to court and get results. So, Prof. Kamat
will
say yes to Narvekar for everything and it is guys like Samir Kelekar
will have to take Infotech to court to get results by
spending their
own hard earned money.

Man, I would say that if this is the case which seem to be,
then Goa
Suraj is also eminently guilty if it hosts such a guy as a
moderator. They might as well ask Narvekar to moderate this instead!

And being a board member makes one liable even legally and
surely
morally. One need not be an MD or an executive director.

And absolutely no conditions here from my side to Goa Suraj. They
can as well field as many candidates, have as many debates, and
get as many votes as they have been getting.

They could also take money and lunches from mine owners in one
election and ask for a social boycott of mine owners in another.

I mean there is something called Intellectual quotient.

regards,
Samir
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, floriano
From: floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
To: samir_kelekar at yahoo.com, "Goa's premiere
mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:29 PM
I like ....'If Floriano has the guts'
.........
thing coming from Samir.
Samir must know better.
BTW I have confirmed from Prof. MS Kamat that he is
not the
MD of Infotec
but one of the members of the BOD. He is aware of the
RTI
information sought
by Goa Su-Raj Party. According to him, the Infotec is
doing
sweet little and
that every thing is idling with cases going on left
right
and center.
(And he has promissed to share with me as and when
something big comes his
way by way of a 'gift' from the Chairman of
Infotec Dayanand Narvekar :-))
And, Samir must know that I hate conditions from any
one,
even from harmed
and injured Samir, for my performance.
floriano
goasuraj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samir Kelekar"
<samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and
Citizen's Initiative
Post by Samir Kelekar
Samir, it is not right that you put forward
allegations or
Post by Samir Kelekar
insinuations against Prof Kamat (which may
well be
true) while keeping
Post by Samir Kelekar
yourself in the background while you make
them.
Post by Samir Kelekar
What you mean by background? I have asked the
questions openly, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
not by using a pseudoname such as pen pricks, on
a
public forum.
Post by Samir Kelekar
If this is not foreground, I wonder what can be.
Floriano (or any one else) cannot be proxy to
your
questions. What if
Post by Samir Kelekar
Kamat gives some answers which are untrue? Who
has
the necessary
Post by Samir Kelekar
backgound to counter them?
If Floriano has the guts to ask these questions
and
seek answers before
Post by Samir Kelekar
the meeting and then make a decision on whether
to
have Prof. Kamat
Post by Samir Kelekar
as a moderator, he can do so, and he can post
Prof.
Kamat's answers
Post by Samir Kelekar
either here on Goanet or send them to me
personally on
email, and
Post by Samir Kelekar
I can see and respond to that.
It is not just me, I am sure there are many
others
capable on Goanet
Post by Samir Kelekar
who can see the answers and figure out what Prof.
Kamat's position has
Post by Samir Kelekar
been vis-a-vis the Infotech scams.
You make the talk. You must walk the talk.
Huh?
Regards
Roland.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-26 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/26 Jeevan R <jeevanb77 at gmail.com> wrote: I believe Mr. M. S.
Kamat is a retired Principal of MES college, Vasco. I wonder if he has
any experience of university functioning, research, etc. at the
highest level. He being an in charge of some unknown, ministerially
tainted, non academic govt agency says all. Some honorable and retired
University Professor will be a better choice as a moderator for a
debate concerning University issues.


jc's response:

I have less of a problem with Mr MS Kamat not having much experience
of University functioning, as I have of the allegation made about him
being tainted.

He is asked to be a moderator of a debate, and not the one to help
Goans make up their mind about GU.

No tainted person can effectively serve as a moderator.

Accordingly, the organisers of this debate (IF they are really
serious) should confirm (after verifying the facts themselves) whether
Mr. Kamat is tainted or not.

No decision is irreversible.

The organisers of the debate, and the debate itself - will have more
credibility IF they do the right thing.

If they refuse to verify - they would be perceived as being no
different than the Alibaba gang.

I find it very strange that Goa University could NOT fine one solitary
Goan academic to head it. The same story with regard to major
departments in Goa. Please see the following attached. This is written
circa the same time as Orlando Ribeiro wrote his strange stuff.
Wonder why Eduardo Faleiro did not balance his statement with that
from an Indian visitor of the time.

jc

http://www.colaco.net/4/GoaLib18.htm (courtesy Livia de Abreu
Noronha, Oeiras, Portugal, May 24, 2002)

from "Goa and Ourselves" written in 1955 in Bombay by the Indian
lawyer B.K. Bohman-Behram, M.A., LL.B.:

Political Aspect:

"...There are about 4500 Goan Civil Servants in Portuguese India,
whilst those who come from Metropolitan Portugal are said to amount to
a few dozen. As against that it is pointed out that there is a
substantial number of Goans in Portugal itself who hold public offices
or pursue liberal professions and are allowed to do so as equals.

The fact seems to be incontrovertible that Goa is not a source of
employment for the sons of Portugal, but that, on the other hand, the
whole of Portugal including its overseas possessions in Asia and
Africa is open to and flooded with the sons of Goa."

Cultural Aspect:

"...Portuguese India with a population of 600,000 is partly Christian
and partly Hindu by a half to half proportion - a proportion that
tilts in favour of the Christians if the thousands of Goan immigrants,
who still retain their Portuguese nationality, are taken into account.

The Christians are an orientalized Neo-latin type. The Hindus, by
reason of their customs and usages having been protected by a special
Portuguese law and by the fact that they constantly intermingled with
their neighbouring co-religionists, did not integrate so much in the
sociological ethnography of Goa and it cannot be said that the process
of lusitanisation is complete in them.

But, it is pointed out, the Hindus of Portuguese India, linked by
centuries of political tradition to things Portuguese, are a
Portuguese type. A particular system of Government and certain
environment prevailing for centuries naturally changes the character
of a people and the Hindus of Goa definitely differ from Hindus
inhabiting the adjoining territories.

One has to meet them to notice their Western mannerism, one has to
enter the homes of the prominent amongst them to find in them a past
or present Portuguese Baron, a Viscount or at least a Knight Commander
with the venera displayed in a conspicuous place by the side of a
photograph of the President of the Portuguese Republic.

"Goans as a result of a cultural process of centuries are different
from their neighbours. They generally feel that Goa cannot therefore
merge if it is going to preserve its soul, its identity, its ethos.

They know that India has throughout its hoary past absorbed several
cultures and passed them through the filter of Hinduism. From the
Aryans to the Greeks, from the Greeks to the Persians, they came and
conquered and were conquered and absorbed, except the Muslims.
Pakistan was the result of the fear that Muslims had of being
politically dominated and culturally absorbed by the Hindus.

"Our own Government implicitly recognised the cultural distinction
between the Goans and the peoples of the Indian Union when it once
stated that ?The Government of India demands a transfer of Portuguese
possessions in India with the guarantee of respecting their culture,
language, laws and customs and not to change them without their
consent?.

"Look at any facet you like of Goan life and you will see Portugal
deeply reflected in it. Ethnically and culturally, the Goans have been
moulded to the Lusitanian type and true to that type they remain by
tradition and choice."
Roland Francis
2008-07-27 04:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Miguel, Samir, Jeevan and all those who oppose Prof Kamat as the
moderator of the Citizen's Initiative debate:

The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".

With such narrow discretion left to him, Prof Kamat's past has little
bearing. In fact, it is the best thing that Floriano could have done.
By making him moderator, Kamat cannot give his own views on the
question.

All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.

Whether the outcome of the debate has any bearing on the final outcome
of the issue is less important than having democracy function at it's
best. While any half-wit can be a voter, it takes intelligent people
to direct the course of public policy. We cannot leave this to greedy
politicians.

If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible. Give as
much importance to the getting the DNAs, the Tehelkas, the Outlooks
and the India Todays as given to the local media. The issues discussed
here are relevant to other literate states also.

Regards,
Roland.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write the conclusion before it starts!
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2008-07-27 16:07:46 UTC
Permalink
2008/7/27 floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>

[1] CI will not contact any of the above as it has ALREADY IDENTIFIED
the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has ANNOUNCED his name as such.

[2] Therefore, it will be left to Miguel and/or anyone else to
contact the above person/s and convey to the CI (convenor) his/their
wilingness to moderate the debate on 30th. July.

[3] Only then CI will CONSIDER the POSSIBILITY of substituting the
present moderator for the debate.

[4] this first CI debate will set a PRECEDENT for the future debates
and interactions.


jc's comment:

Having read the above from the good Floriano Lobo especially wrt the
choice of words included in the above statement, I see an absolute
'fait accompli' with NO serious attempt at a mutually beneficial
solution to the dilemma of having an allegedly tainted person as the
moderator of the debate.

There also appears to have been no (publicly declared) verification of
the charges against Mr. Kamat.

I agree with Floriano. This first CI debate will certainly set a
precedent for future debates and interactions. But what will be the
precedent?

Will it be one or more of the following:

a: CI did a "Jhalacch Pahije" a la Bandodkar ?

b: CI decided that it must honour it's invitation, come hell - come high water?

c: CI did due diligence on the moderator, and ignored the 'naysayers'?

d: CI decided that a person is innocent until proven guilty?

e: CI decided that the debate is more important than the moderator?

There is one additional precedent that this debate will set ...and
which, the attendance and post debate conversation will decide

i.e. Will this be just another debate which having as much effect on
Goa as the Beach Nonsense courtesy NDTV ...or Will this be the
beginning of serious dialogue among the Goan populace?

Velim based Kon Fu Shius once said: He who have trouble at the start -
always have problem with the race.

jc
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-27 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Roland Francis,
?
The theory of what a "Moderator" can do is not the practice in Goa. This debate is being held in Goa. Period.
?
The "summing up" that the Moderator is allowed to do is what gets quoted by the Press [Print and electornic media], that is always short of space and footage.
?
I am NOT opposed to Prof [?] Madhav S. Kamat. I just?pointed to the futility of the debate with a person like him in charge. If Floriano?can organise to videofilm the entire debate, then it may be of some use.
?
I do not know how many institutions will respond to Floriano Lobo's call for the debate. It is my experience that a single letter does not elicit much response. One needs to visit the institutions personally and elicit participation.At times, one even needs to provide a response sheet for confirmation.?This is Goa where clubs vie with each other for participation by students .....even when there are excellent prizes.?I could be wrong. Let us see on 30 July, 2008.?

?
The point is the media coverage. The PSU organised the Silver Jubilee celebration of the agitation in Neturlim village of Sanguem taluka to demand for a Government Primary school [GPS]?in 1983. My cousin taught at that GPS in mid 1980s. The only transport options for her were 1. Milk van, 2. Mining truck and 3. walk. This remote village near the Selaulim Dam is even today not easily accessible. The programme at Neturlim on 19 July, 2008, had extensive coverage in the vernacular press and on Prudent TV news. No prizes for guessing why.
?
That is why I had suggested a change of Moderator to Floriano Lobo. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel

--- On Sun, 27/7/08, Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roland Francis <roland.francis at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's Initiative
To: miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in, "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Sunday, 27 July, 2008, 3:15 AM


The function of a moderator of any debate is to ensure that the ground
rules set previously are followed in the best interest of the debate.
Beyond that he does not make any comments himself except to ask
clarification of any speaker's point if it is ambiguous. Even the time
each speaker gets is set by the rules. Where the moderator gets some
leeway is on "redirect".


All those worthies mentioned as potentially good moderators would make
better particpants. At least everyone can hear their views on the
subject.


If there is one important matter that I would suggest that Floriano
acts upon, I would say get the best media coverage possible.
Regards,
Roland.





On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Miguel Braganza
Dears,
If Prof Madhav S. Kamat is going to be the "Moderator" of the
debate on "Should Goa University go Central?" one might as well write
the conclusion before it starts!



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-28 05:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 04:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Dears,
?
It is now quasi-official that Goa should have a Central University AND the Goa University at the same time.
?
Prof M.S. Kamat is a part of the panel with the GIMS, MICM and MIHCM founder Fr. Romualdo de Souza sj [incidentally, Dr. Willy's brother], Principal Newman Fernandes of the UGC-designated "College with Potential for Excellence" St.Xavier's College-Mapusa, Mr. Suresh Gundu Amoncar of G.S.Amoncar Vidyamandir and only person to have completed two consecutive terms as Chairman of Goa Board of Education and others who I do not know personally but who are obviously qualified to speak about education.
?
Let us see what the debate on 30 July, 2008 at 4.30 P.M. in Institute Menezes Braganza throws up. Let us have an open mind.
?
The next debate must me on the medium of instruction in the village primary schools in the era of global competition and increaing use of English in all walks of life ...and admixture of English in almost all Indian languages spoken today as stated by the authors at a recent conference.
?
Mog asundi
?
Miguel

Navhind Times on 29 July, 2008

Cong panel says no to central varsity status for GU
by RAMNATH N PAI RAIKAR
Principal Correspondent
PANAJI ? A panel constituted by the Goa pradesh Congress committee under the chairmanship of Mr M K Shaikh to present its observations on the proposed centralisation of the Goa University, is of the opinion that Goa University, the only state university, should work as a state-based university and the central government could think of setting up an independent central university for Goa.
The panel members, who deliberated on the related issues at various meetings, are expected to present the report to the GPCC later this week.
Speaking to ?The Navhind Times? Mr Shaikh said the report is under preparation and would take all aspects on centralisation of the GU into consideration.
The panel members include senior educationists namely, Fr Romuald D?Souza, Prof Suresh Amonkar, Prof M S Kamat, Prof Newman Fernandes and Prof Hillary D?Souza.
The panel is of the opinion that although a centralised university in Goa would receive lot of funds from the Union ministry of human resource development, besides quality faculty to teach at this university and better students, there would be certain drawbacks to it such as local students having to compete with national level students, if adequate clauses are not included while transforming the Goa University into a central university,? the sources informed.
The report of the panel would also include recommendation that certain colleges in the state, which have developed themselves into excellent educational institutions should be allowed to run autonomously.
The report is further expected to suggest that though most of the departments at the GU fail to fill up the required quota of students, with the exception of chemistry department, a separate central university could be set up with departments dedicated to educational fields which are not available at the GU.
?The panel is of the opinion that a central university in Goa can be a good research institution, besides being an educational body, and help the students to carry out frontier research,? the sources revealed.
The panel has also taken into account the possibility of many foreign universities opening their shops in Goa in the near future. ?The report may further have references to such possibilities, as an outcome of liberalisation wherein even the government of India cannot stop the influx of foreign universities in the country,? the sources informed, adding, ?Goa being a centre of attraction worldwide, will attract many of such educational institutions and could, in the next 15 years, whether one likes it or not, become an educational hub.?
The report of the panel, in a nutshell, will recommend maintaining the identity of the GU as an autonomous body, with the monitoring and administrative control from the state government, and presentation of its annual report as well as budget in the state assembly, the sources maintained.
The panel is also of the opinion that there is a room for lot of improvement in the GU and the same could be taken up in a phase-wised manner, the sources revealed. ENDS
?
?
?

--- On Mon, 28/7/08, Ajit Shirodkar <shirodkars at gmail.com> wrote:




Good going !!

Ajit


On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Miguel Braganza <miguelbraganza at yahoo.co.in> wrote:






Dears,
?
In view of Floriano Lobo's clarification on behalf of CITIZENS' INITIATIVE and Roland Francis stating the rules of moderation, it has been agreed that Prof. M. S. Kamat will remain the Moderator.
?
Floriano is working on the confirmation of speakers from the Goa University affiliated colleges. The opening speakers FOR and AGAINST the conversion of Goa University into a Central University have been identified. Both of them have been associated with the Goa University for a number of years.
?
The format is being worked out. There will be time and space for audience interaction. Media coverage is being confirmed, too.
?
It has been confirmed that this is NOT a Goa SuRaj Party [GSRP]?or a Goa Environmental Action Group [GEAG] event, though Floriano is associated with both these bodies. I am a bit touchy about associating my name with groups that, though they may be good, are something I subscribe to.
?
Please feel free to express your views. The conversion is NOT just about EDUCATION. It is also about LAND, Local PARTICIPATION in Decision making, and the future of the State. It concerns each one of us who is alive today ....or yet to be born. Make sure you do not mortgage your future generations just because you cared .... a damn!
?
Let not the rains deter you from attending. The venue is indoors ...IMB Hall, Panaji. Just park your vehicles near Azad Maidan, as the entrance of IMB is perennially flood prone ...though it is just a few metres from the Mandovi River into which the rain water must drain out.
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0530
From: "floriano" <floriano.lobo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's
??? Initiative

Miguel suggests:
[Dr. G.N. Mishra, Fr. Antimo Gomes, Sr. Rita Fonseca, Dr. Shigurkar
or one of the former Acting Vice-Chancellors of Goa University [Dr. Adi
Doctor or Dr. Olivinho Gomes], also,???Mr. Alban Couto or Mr. J.C. Almeida
or Dr.Ajit Shirodkar.......... as possible? Moderators.
This is the first time that such names have come up. And this is more than
welcomed? by the CI. However, CI? has already identified the moderator in Prof. MS Kamat and has announced his name as such.

?What the people want, people must get. However, the above consideration is subject to the acceptance by CI of the choice suggested with no promises made to effect the
change,? given the tight timings.


Sincerely,
for CI
Floriano Lobo
Convenor







Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Here is the solution.



Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
Miguel Braganza
2008-07-29 16:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Dr. Barad,

Well, I do not know what exactly the abbreviation "M.C." will mean tomorrow ... Master of Ceremony or Master of Confusion [Maestro Confusao]. At best , it is a leap into the unknown .... with two knowns: Dr. Jayant Budkuley and Mr. Sebastian Fernandes aka "Naxalite". Seby has come to town from Sri Lanka. Who else will speak, I do not know.

As far as I know as of now, my role will be to invite Prof. Madhav S.Kamat to take his seat on the dais. If it reminds you of the Pradesh Congress Committee or the CLPC tradition for proposing the name of the CM of PCC Chief, don't blame me. I am no politician.

It does seem peculiar that the Chairman of the Committee on the University "conversion" appointed by the Goa PCC should want to "leak" to a newspaper the contents of the yet-to-be-submitted "Report" .... on the eve of the debate. Can not blame him, though: this is the monsoon season and everything is leaking. Draft rules being framed for the Government are also leaking in Panaji ....and there is nothing official about it! ;-)

We have the Independence Eve Dance, New Year's Eve Dance and Debate Eve "Leaks". Like the Lays advertisement with Saif Ali Khan, Hum kya karen "Control hi nahin hota!" ;-)

I only posted on the net what is available in print ...in black and white and on the newspapers webpage. Its obvious intent is to balance Dr. Budkuley's articles in the same newspaper. Fair and square? Or should I accuse the GPCC panel [with the Moderator as one of its members] of plagiarising my earlier posting on the goanet???

The MC's job is up for grabs if there are any volunteers. I asked Pravin Sabnis and a few others. They declined. There is no money or prestige in that task. Just uncertainty. I have accepted the task only because I am assured that there is no politics involved. I have no problem on who MCs it ... one way or the other. It is the content of the debate that matters.I am expecting Dr. Joe D'Souza, Manoj Joshi, Soter D'Souza, Jason Fernandes, Pravin Sabnis and others to add their thought to the debate.

Are you going to be there? It would be a pleasure to meet you.

Mog asundi.

Miguel

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:00:31 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad" <dr.udaybarad at gmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Questions to Prof. Kamat and Citizen's

Message-ID: <488ec720.011e6e0a.1312.0ae1 at mx.google.com>

This is in reply to Message No 12, Dated: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 from Miguel
Braganza on above topic.

Miguel, you being accepted as MC for the Open Academic Public Debate, to be
held tomorrow, on - SHOULD GOA VARSITY GO CENTRAL - after all your IF's &
BUT's, I think you should have refrained yourself in writing on this
subject.

Any way, Miguel let's see what public have to say on this issue on 30th till than refrain yourself from writing anything on this issue.

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad




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