Discussion:
Dabolim Airport
(too old to reply)
Philip Thomas
2004-11-22 06:13:28 UTC
Permalink
RE: Gilbert Menezes' of Nov 6 on the subject

This is a a good intervention based on the emerging multi-airport
perspective. Perhaps due to the newnesss of the concept, the picturisation
of Seabird and Mopa is inadequate and the author has inadvertently ended up
playing into the hands of vested interests (Navy and the south Goa hotel
lobby) and pushing for the status quo at Dabolim. We will touch on Seabird
and Mopa later but first a word about the motivation in the Navy to downsize
in Mumbai and shift to Seabird.

Two somewhat contradictory reasons are given. One is the congestion in
Bombay harbour which is a good sign as far as Dabolim airport is concerned
because the Navy does seem to respond to the build up of civilian needs and
will hopefully see the handwriting on the wall there (at Dabolim) too. The
other is to get out of the strike range of Pak aircraft which seems a bit
defensive rather than "strategic" and not altogether flattering!

However, it is unfortunate that Seabird is being portrayed as somewhat
suboptimal (a glorified repair dock) and the airfield itself is almost an
afterthought. Either this facility is being purposely downplayed to avoid
the shift out of Dabolim or the Navy is constantly bungling its airport
planning (perhaps due to its "core competence" being in naval rather than
aerial warfare).

As for Mopa, the author categorically states that it does not make "any
economic sense" and that it will never "see the light of day". What he has
overlooked (or is actively preventing people from realising) is that
economic viability may be just a matter of putting pen to paper and stopping
civilian flights at Dabolim so that they have to use Mopa. Then what happens
to the south Goa businesses which depend on Dabolim? No point in playing
the ostrich.

It is not just Kochi which has moved from a military controlled airfield to
a greenfield international airport. Bangalore is also on the same track.
The challenge for Goa is to somehow set a NEW precedent and have civilian
flights continue and even expand at Dabolim --- even as Mopa is built up.
The city of London has 5 airports! The reason is the global trend towards
low cost domestic air travel which is defeated by costly new airports and
excessive distance to/from business and other centres. The Bangalore
experience needs close watching as more than any other Indian city it is
emerging as a capital of low cost carrier Air Deccan (although Mumbai and
Delhi benefit from apex type fares of all the majors).

Will the Goan people demand a much better deal for civilian flights at
Dabolim for the sake of low cost domestic air travel to and from Goa and see
to it that their leaders take up the matter actively with central including
defense authorities? That is the crux of the challenge which this issue
poses. Let's hope the people of Goa take an enlightened and courageous
stand.
Philip Thomas
2004-11-23 07:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22

The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence Committee? Hope so.
Bernado Colaco
2004-11-24 11:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Master Phil,
Goanet is mostly dominated by mumbai and english
africkanders and brazil. Most of their postings are
for vanity. Important issues are swept under the
carpet.

B. Colaco
Post by Philip Thomas
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22
The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE
of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders
get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on
Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence
Committee? Hope so.
___________________________________________________________
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
Get Yahoo! Mail www.yahoo.co.uk/10k
Philip Thomas
2004-11-24 11:18:34 UTC
Permalink
RE: Ivar Fjeld's "Letter of Introduction" of Nov 23

This is just to decline with all modesty the credit given by Ivar Fjeld to
me for introducing him to Goanet. But, yes, we did chat recently about
Dabolim Airport and I did urge him to share his experience on Goanet where a
discussion on the subject had begun lately. He was telling me how one of the
pioneers of charter flights to Goa, Condor, discontinued its flights when in
1996 it was refused permission to land just because some training flights
were underway.

I do find that Dabolim matters get low priority in our media. For example
the emergency experienced by an IA flight on Saturday is being reported in
the press only today (four days later!) To Goanet's credit, it was reported
herein on Monday I think. Also even under the best of circumstances (that is
when IFFI is not an obsession!) our government does not seem to be paying
any attention to the needs of the people for low cost air travel. It needs
to work energetically to get everybody concerned around a table to talk
directly to each other about their problems at Dabolim. Once these problems
are understood clearly perhaps some earnest negotiations can begin to
alleviate as many problems as possible.
Ivar Fjeld
2004-11-24 11:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Fellow netters.

I am not an expert on aviation. I neither have much
knowledge of the history of Dabolim Airport. But I am
a frequent air traveler, and have received 30-40
persons who have come to Goa on charter flights from
Europe. They have not been much impressed with the
facilities.

In the mid 90-ties, there was a large number of
Germans among the charter tourists in Goa. The Germans
were what we can call ?high-end travelers?, with cash
and willing to spend. The main German charter company
was Condor, owned by the Lufthansa Group. I 1996 one
on schedule incoming Condor flight to Goa was refused
to land. The reason: The military commander of Dabolim
was holding an exercise on the airstrip. Coming 7000
kilometers from overseas, the captain circled over the
Airport, renewing his request for permission to land.
The flight finally had to be diverted to Mumbai. The
end of the story was that the Condor Management
cancelled the whole winter program on Goa. This is not
a military secret. Even some national newspapers
covered this incident.

Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.

Sincerely Yours
Mr. Ivar Fjeld
Ribandar










__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
Philip Thomas
2004-11-25 04:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Re: Bernado Colaco's and Ivar Fjeld's of Nov 24

A day after complaining that the media are neglecting Dabolim airport
matters, I was virtually carpet bombed by articles in today's paper! One
article spoke about Kerala's move to develop a fourth international
standard airport. Another was about Jet bagging the award for "Best Domestic
Airline".

The third article which was the most tantalising one was outwardly not about
aviation at all. It was about Churchill Alemao's visit to Delhi on Nov 22
which he claims was solely to attend a meeting of the Defence Committee of
which he is reportedly a member. Let's hope he got to follow up about his
memo on Dabolim and that the results are disseminated one of these days in
the press or Goanet.

In the meantime I came across an issue of Business World magazine (Nov 22)
which also has two articles about aviation. One of them talks about Air
Sahara's radical plan to start a "hub" at Hyderabad beginning in 2005 to
provide quick connections for passengers flying from North India to South
India (including Goa). The other is about the travails of Bangalore's
proposed international airport. The latter make one feel that Goa is still
in with a chance of re-writing the prevailing rules of the airport
development game by pushing for a joint management of Dabolim (along the
lines of Honolulu) and a separate construction of Mopa.

Finally, a few days ago I came across a report that Gujarat holds the record
for the max number of airports (8) and it is anxious to convert one of the 7
into an international airport to complement Ahmedabad. So airport planning
and development is in fashion. What is Goa doing about it? A million dollar
question, right?
Mervyn Lobo
2004-11-27 03:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar Fjeld
Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.
Folks,
Can anyone in India inform us on how many
international airports there are in the country?
Thanks

Mervyn

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Philip Thomas
2004-11-22 06:13:28 UTC
Permalink
RE: Gilbert Menezes' of Nov 6 on the subject

This is a a good intervention based on the emerging multi-airport
perspective. Perhaps due to the newnesss of the concept, the picturisation
of Seabird and Mopa is inadequate and the author has inadvertently ended up
playing into the hands of vested interests (Navy and the south Goa hotel
lobby) and pushing for the status quo at Dabolim. We will touch on Seabird
and Mopa later but first a word about the motivation in the Navy to downsize
in Mumbai and shift to Seabird.

Two somewhat contradictory reasons are given. One is the congestion in
Bombay harbour which is a good sign as far as Dabolim airport is concerned
because the Navy does seem to respond to the build up of civilian needs and
will hopefully see the handwriting on the wall there (at Dabolim) too. The
other is to get out of the strike range of Pak aircraft which seems a bit
defensive rather than "strategic" and not altogether flattering!

However, it is unfortunate that Seabird is being portrayed as somewhat
suboptimal (a glorified repair dock) and the airfield itself is almost an
afterthought. Either this facility is being purposely downplayed to avoid
the shift out of Dabolim or the Navy is constantly bungling its airport
planning (perhaps due to its "core competence" being in naval rather than
aerial warfare).

As for Mopa, the author categorically states that it does not make "any
economic sense" and that it will never "see the light of day". What he has
overlooked (or is actively preventing people from realising) is that
economic viability may be just a matter of putting pen to paper and stopping
civilian flights at Dabolim so that they have to use Mopa. Then what happens
to the south Goa businesses which depend on Dabolim? No point in playing
the ostrich.

It is not just Kochi which has moved from a military controlled airfield to
a greenfield international airport. Bangalore is also on the same track.
The challenge for Goa is to somehow set a NEW precedent and have civilian
flights continue and even expand at Dabolim --- even as Mopa is built up.
The city of London has 5 airports! The reason is the global trend towards
low cost domestic air travel which is defeated by costly new airports and
excessive distance to/from business and other centres. The Bangalore
experience needs close watching as more than any other Indian city it is
emerging as a capital of low cost carrier Air Deccan (although Mumbai and
Delhi benefit from apex type fares of all the majors).

Will the Goan people demand a much better deal for civilian flights at
Dabolim for the sake of low cost domestic air travel to and from Goa and see
to it that their leaders take up the matter actively with central including
defense authorities? That is the crux of the challenge which this issue
poses. Let's hope the people of Goa take an enlightened and courageous
stand.
Philip Thomas
2004-11-23 07:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22

The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence Committee? Hope so.
Bernado Colaco
2004-11-24 11:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Master Phil,
Goanet is mostly dominated by mumbai and english
africkanders and brazil. Most of their postings are
for vanity. Important issues are swept under the
carpet.

B. Colaco
Post by Philip Thomas
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22
The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE
of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders
get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on
Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence
Committee? Hope so.
___________________________________________________________
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
Get Yahoo! Mail www.yahoo.co.uk/10k
Philip Thomas
2004-11-24 11:18:34 UTC
Permalink
RE: Ivar Fjeld's "Letter of Introduction" of Nov 23

This is just to decline with all modesty the credit given by Ivar Fjeld to
me for introducing him to Goanet. But, yes, we did chat recently about
Dabolim Airport and I did urge him to share his experience on Goanet where a
discussion on the subject had begun lately. He was telling me how one of the
pioneers of charter flights to Goa, Condor, discontinued its flights when in
1996 it was refused permission to land just because some training flights
were underway.

I do find that Dabolim matters get low priority in our media. For example
the emergency experienced by an IA flight on Saturday is being reported in
the press only today (four days later!) To Goanet's credit, it was reported
herein on Monday I think. Also even under the best of circumstances (that is
when IFFI is not an obsession!) our government does not seem to be paying
any attention to the needs of the people for low cost air travel. It needs
to work energetically to get everybody concerned around a table to talk
directly to each other about their problems at Dabolim. Once these problems
are understood clearly perhaps some earnest negotiations can begin to
alleviate as many problems as possible.
Ivar Fjeld
2004-11-24 11:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Fellow netters.

I am not an expert on aviation. I neither have much
knowledge of the history of Dabolim Airport. But I am
a frequent air traveler, and have received 30-40
persons who have come to Goa on charter flights from
Europe. They have not been much impressed with the
facilities.

In the mid 90-ties, there was a large number of
Germans among the charter tourists in Goa. The Germans
were what we can call ?high-end travelers?, with cash
and willing to spend. The main German charter company
was Condor, owned by the Lufthansa Group. I 1996 one
on schedule incoming Condor flight to Goa was refused
to land. The reason: The military commander of Dabolim
was holding an exercise on the airstrip. Coming 7000
kilometers from overseas, the captain circled over the
Airport, renewing his request for permission to land.
The flight finally had to be diverted to Mumbai. The
end of the story was that the Condor Management
cancelled the whole winter program on Goa. This is not
a military secret. Even some national newspapers
covered this incident.

Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.

Sincerely Yours
Mr. Ivar Fjeld
Ribandar










__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
Philip Thomas
2004-11-25 04:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Re: Bernado Colaco's and Ivar Fjeld's of Nov 24

A day after complaining that the media are neglecting Dabolim airport
matters, I was virtually carpet bombed by articles in today's paper! One
article spoke about Kerala's move to develop a fourth international
standard airport. Another was about Jet bagging the award for "Best Domestic
Airline".

The third article which was the most tantalising one was outwardly not about
aviation at all. It was about Churchill Alemao's visit to Delhi on Nov 22
which he claims was solely to attend a meeting of the Defence Committee of
which he is reportedly a member. Let's hope he got to follow up about his
memo on Dabolim and that the results are disseminated one of these days in
the press or Goanet.

In the meantime I came across an issue of Business World magazine (Nov 22)
which also has two articles about aviation. One of them talks about Air
Sahara's radical plan to start a "hub" at Hyderabad beginning in 2005 to
provide quick connections for passengers flying from North India to South
India (including Goa). The other is about the travails of Bangalore's
proposed international airport. The latter make one feel that Goa is still
in with a chance of re-writing the prevailing rules of the airport
development game by pushing for a joint management of Dabolim (along the
lines of Honolulu) and a separate construction of Mopa.

Finally, a few days ago I came across a report that Gujarat holds the record
for the max number of airports (8) and it is anxious to convert one of the 7
into an international airport to complement Ahmedabad. So airport planning
and development is in fashion. What is Goa doing about it? A million dollar
question, right?
Mervyn Lobo
2004-11-27 03:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar Fjeld
Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.
Folks,
Can anyone in India inform us on how many
international airports there are in the country?
Thanks

Mervyn

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Philip Thomas
2004-11-22 06:13:28 UTC
Permalink
RE: Gilbert Menezes' of Nov 6 on the subject

This is a a good intervention based on the emerging multi-airport
perspective. Perhaps due to the newnesss of the concept, the picturisation
of Seabird and Mopa is inadequate and the author has inadvertently ended up
playing into the hands of vested interests (Navy and the south Goa hotel
lobby) and pushing for the status quo at Dabolim. We will touch on Seabird
and Mopa later but first a word about the motivation in the Navy to downsize
in Mumbai and shift to Seabird.

Two somewhat contradictory reasons are given. One is the congestion in
Bombay harbour which is a good sign as far as Dabolim airport is concerned
because the Navy does seem to respond to the build up of civilian needs and
will hopefully see the handwriting on the wall there (at Dabolim) too. The
other is to get out of the strike range of Pak aircraft which seems a bit
defensive rather than "strategic" and not altogether flattering!

However, it is unfortunate that Seabird is being portrayed as somewhat
suboptimal (a glorified repair dock) and the airfield itself is almost an
afterthought. Either this facility is being purposely downplayed to avoid
the shift out of Dabolim or the Navy is constantly bungling its airport
planning (perhaps due to its "core competence" being in naval rather than
aerial warfare).

As for Mopa, the author categorically states that it does not make "any
economic sense" and that it will never "see the light of day". What he has
overlooked (or is actively preventing people from realising) is that
economic viability may be just a matter of putting pen to paper and stopping
civilian flights at Dabolim so that they have to use Mopa. Then what happens
to the south Goa businesses which depend on Dabolim? No point in playing
the ostrich.

It is not just Kochi which has moved from a military controlled airfield to
a greenfield international airport. Bangalore is also on the same track.
The challenge for Goa is to somehow set a NEW precedent and have civilian
flights continue and even expand at Dabolim --- even as Mopa is built up.
The city of London has 5 airports! The reason is the global trend towards
low cost domestic air travel which is defeated by costly new airports and
excessive distance to/from business and other centres. The Bangalore
experience needs close watching as more than any other Indian city it is
emerging as a capital of low cost carrier Air Deccan (although Mumbai and
Delhi benefit from apex type fares of all the majors).

Will the Goan people demand a much better deal for civilian flights at
Dabolim for the sake of low cost domestic air travel to and from Goa and see
to it that their leaders take up the matter actively with central including
defense authorities? That is the crux of the challenge which this issue
poses. Let's hope the people of Goa take an enlightened and courageous
stand.
Philip Thomas
2004-11-23 07:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22

The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence Committee? Hope so.
Bernado Colaco
2004-11-24 11:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Master Phil,
Goanet is mostly dominated by mumbai and english
africkanders and brazil. Most of their postings are
for vanity. Important issues are swept under the
carpet.

B. Colaco
Post by Philip Thomas
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22
The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE
of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders
get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on
Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence
Committee? Hope so.
___________________________________________________________
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
Get Yahoo! Mail www.yahoo.co.uk/10k
Philip Thomas
2004-11-24 11:18:34 UTC
Permalink
RE: Ivar Fjeld's "Letter of Introduction" of Nov 23

This is just to decline with all modesty the credit given by Ivar Fjeld to
me for introducing him to Goanet. But, yes, we did chat recently about
Dabolim Airport and I did urge him to share his experience on Goanet where a
discussion on the subject had begun lately. He was telling me how one of the
pioneers of charter flights to Goa, Condor, discontinued its flights when in
1996 it was refused permission to land just because some training flights
were underway.

I do find that Dabolim matters get low priority in our media. For example
the emergency experienced by an IA flight on Saturday is being reported in
the press only today (four days later!) To Goanet's credit, it was reported
herein on Monday I think. Also even under the best of circumstances (that is
when IFFI is not an obsession!) our government does not seem to be paying
any attention to the needs of the people for low cost air travel. It needs
to work energetically to get everybody concerned around a table to talk
directly to each other about their problems at Dabolim. Once these problems
are understood clearly perhaps some earnest negotiations can begin to
alleviate as many problems as possible.
Ivar Fjeld
2004-11-24 11:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Fellow netters.

I am not an expert on aviation. I neither have much
knowledge of the history of Dabolim Airport. But I am
a frequent air traveler, and have received 30-40
persons who have come to Goa on charter flights from
Europe. They have not been much impressed with the
facilities.

In the mid 90-ties, there was a large number of
Germans among the charter tourists in Goa. The Germans
were what we can call ?high-end travelers?, with cash
and willing to spend. The main German charter company
was Condor, owned by the Lufthansa Group. I 1996 one
on schedule incoming Condor flight to Goa was refused
to land. The reason: The military commander of Dabolim
was holding an exercise on the airstrip. Coming 7000
kilometers from overseas, the captain circled over the
Airport, renewing his request for permission to land.
The flight finally had to be diverted to Mumbai. The
end of the story was that the Condor Management
cancelled the whole winter program on Goa. This is not
a military secret. Even some national newspapers
covered this incident.

Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.

Sincerely Yours
Mr. Ivar Fjeld
Ribandar










__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
Philip Thomas
2004-11-25 04:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Re: Bernado Colaco's and Ivar Fjeld's of Nov 24

A day after complaining that the media are neglecting Dabolim airport
matters, I was virtually carpet bombed by articles in today's paper! One
article spoke about Kerala's move to develop a fourth international
standard airport. Another was about Jet bagging the award for "Best Domestic
Airline".

The third article which was the most tantalising one was outwardly not about
aviation at all. It was about Churchill Alemao's visit to Delhi on Nov 22
which he claims was solely to attend a meeting of the Defence Committee of
which he is reportedly a member. Let's hope he got to follow up about his
memo on Dabolim and that the results are disseminated one of these days in
the press or Goanet.

In the meantime I came across an issue of Business World magazine (Nov 22)
which also has two articles about aviation. One of them talks about Air
Sahara's radical plan to start a "hub" at Hyderabad beginning in 2005 to
provide quick connections for passengers flying from North India to South
India (including Goa). The other is about the travails of Bangalore's
proposed international airport. The latter make one feel that Goa is still
in with a chance of re-writing the prevailing rules of the airport
development game by pushing for a joint management of Dabolim (along the
lines of Honolulu) and a separate construction of Mopa.

Finally, a few days ago I came across a report that Gujarat holds the record
for the max number of airports (8) and it is anxious to convert one of the 7
into an international airport to complement Ahmedabad. So airport planning
and development is in fashion. What is Goa doing about it? A million dollar
question, right?
Mervyn Lobo
2004-11-27 03:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar Fjeld
Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.
Folks,
Can anyone in India inform us on how many
international airports there are in the country?
Thanks

Mervyn

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Philip Thomas
2004-11-22 06:13:28 UTC
Permalink
RE: Gilbert Menezes' of Nov 6 on the subject

This is a a good intervention based on the emerging multi-airport
perspective. Perhaps due to the newnesss of the concept, the picturisation
of Seabird and Mopa is inadequate and the author has inadvertently ended up
playing into the hands of vested interests (Navy and the south Goa hotel
lobby) and pushing for the status quo at Dabolim. We will touch on Seabird
and Mopa later but first a word about the motivation in the Navy to downsize
in Mumbai and shift to Seabird.

Two somewhat contradictory reasons are given. One is the congestion in
Bombay harbour which is a good sign as far as Dabolim airport is concerned
because the Navy does seem to respond to the build up of civilian needs and
will hopefully see the handwriting on the wall there (at Dabolim) too. The
other is to get out of the strike range of Pak aircraft which seems a bit
defensive rather than "strategic" and not altogether flattering!

However, it is unfortunate that Seabird is being portrayed as somewhat
suboptimal (a glorified repair dock) and the airfield itself is almost an
afterthought. Either this facility is being purposely downplayed to avoid
the shift out of Dabolim or the Navy is constantly bungling its airport
planning (perhaps due to its "core competence" being in naval rather than
aerial warfare).

As for Mopa, the author categorically states that it does not make "any
economic sense" and that it will never "see the light of day". What he has
overlooked (or is actively preventing people from realising) is that
economic viability may be just a matter of putting pen to paper and stopping
civilian flights at Dabolim so that they have to use Mopa. Then what happens
to the south Goa businesses which depend on Dabolim? No point in playing
the ostrich.

It is not just Kochi which has moved from a military controlled airfield to
a greenfield international airport. Bangalore is also on the same track.
The challenge for Goa is to somehow set a NEW precedent and have civilian
flights continue and even expand at Dabolim --- even as Mopa is built up.
The city of London has 5 airports! The reason is the global trend towards
low cost domestic air travel which is defeated by costly new airports and
excessive distance to/from business and other centres. The Bangalore
experience needs close watching as more than any other Indian city it is
emerging as a capital of low cost carrier Air Deccan (although Mumbai and
Delhi benefit from apex type fares of all the majors).

Will the Goan people demand a much better deal for civilian flights at
Dabolim for the sake of low cost domestic air travel to and from Goa and see
to it that their leaders take up the matter actively with central including
defense authorities? That is the crux of the challenge which this issue
poses. Let's hope the people of Goa take an enlightened and courageous
stand.
Philip Thomas
2004-11-23 07:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22

The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence Committee? Hope so.
Bernado Colaco
2004-11-24 11:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Master Phil,
Goanet is mostly dominated by mumbai and english
africkanders and brazil. Most of their postings are
for vanity. Important issues are swept under the
carpet.

B. Colaco
Post by Philip Thomas
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22
The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE
of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders
get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on
Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence
Committee? Hope so.
___________________________________________________________
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
Get Yahoo! Mail www.yahoo.co.uk/10k
Philip Thomas
2004-11-24 11:18:34 UTC
Permalink
RE: Ivar Fjeld's "Letter of Introduction" of Nov 23

This is just to decline with all modesty the credit given by Ivar Fjeld to
me for introducing him to Goanet. But, yes, we did chat recently about
Dabolim Airport and I did urge him to share his experience on Goanet where a
discussion on the subject had begun lately. He was telling me how one of the
pioneers of charter flights to Goa, Condor, discontinued its flights when in
1996 it was refused permission to land just because some training flights
were underway.

I do find that Dabolim matters get low priority in our media. For example
the emergency experienced by an IA flight on Saturday is being reported in
the press only today (four days later!) To Goanet's credit, it was reported
herein on Monday I think. Also even under the best of circumstances (that is
when IFFI is not an obsession!) our government does not seem to be paying
any attention to the needs of the people for low cost air travel. It needs
to work energetically to get everybody concerned around a table to talk
directly to each other about their problems at Dabolim. Once these problems
are understood clearly perhaps some earnest negotiations can begin to
alleviate as many problems as possible.
Ivar Fjeld
2004-11-24 11:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Fellow netters.

I am not an expert on aviation. I neither have much
knowledge of the history of Dabolim Airport. But I am
a frequent air traveler, and have received 30-40
persons who have come to Goa on charter flights from
Europe. They have not been much impressed with the
facilities.

In the mid 90-ties, there was a large number of
Germans among the charter tourists in Goa. The Germans
were what we can call ?high-end travelers?, with cash
and willing to spend. The main German charter company
was Condor, owned by the Lufthansa Group. I 1996 one
on schedule incoming Condor flight to Goa was refused
to land. The reason: The military commander of Dabolim
was holding an exercise on the airstrip. Coming 7000
kilometers from overseas, the captain circled over the
Airport, renewing his request for permission to land.
The flight finally had to be diverted to Mumbai. The
end of the story was that the Condor Management
cancelled the whole winter program on Goa. This is not
a military secret. Even some national newspapers
covered this incident.

Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.

Sincerely Yours
Mr. Ivar Fjeld
Ribandar










__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
Philip Thomas
2004-11-25 04:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Re: Bernado Colaco's and Ivar Fjeld's of Nov 24

A day after complaining that the media are neglecting Dabolim airport
matters, I was virtually carpet bombed by articles in today's paper! One
article spoke about Kerala's move to develop a fourth international
standard airport. Another was about Jet bagging the award for "Best Domestic
Airline".

The third article which was the most tantalising one was outwardly not about
aviation at all. It was about Churchill Alemao's visit to Delhi on Nov 22
which he claims was solely to attend a meeting of the Defence Committee of
which he is reportedly a member. Let's hope he got to follow up about his
memo on Dabolim and that the results are disseminated one of these days in
the press or Goanet.

In the meantime I came across an issue of Business World magazine (Nov 22)
which also has two articles about aviation. One of them talks about Air
Sahara's radical plan to start a "hub" at Hyderabad beginning in 2005 to
provide quick connections for passengers flying from North India to South
India (including Goa). The other is about the travails of Bangalore's
proposed international airport. The latter make one feel that Goa is still
in with a chance of re-writing the prevailing rules of the airport
development game by pushing for a joint management of Dabolim (along the
lines of Honolulu) and a separate construction of Mopa.

Finally, a few days ago I came across a report that Gujarat holds the record
for the max number of airports (8) and it is anxious to convert one of the 7
into an international airport to complement Ahmedabad. So airport planning
and development is in fashion. What is Goa doing about it? A million dollar
question, right?
Mervyn Lobo
2004-11-27 03:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar Fjeld
Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.
Folks,
Can anyone in India inform us on how many
international airports there are in the country?
Thanks

Mervyn

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Philip Thomas
2004-11-22 06:13:28 UTC
Permalink
RE: Gilbert Menezes' of Nov 6 on the subject

This is a a good intervention based on the emerging multi-airport
perspective. Perhaps due to the newnesss of the concept, the picturisation
of Seabird and Mopa is inadequate and the author has inadvertently ended up
playing into the hands of vested interests (Navy and the south Goa hotel
lobby) and pushing for the status quo at Dabolim. We will touch on Seabird
and Mopa later but first a word about the motivation in the Navy to downsize
in Mumbai and shift to Seabird.

Two somewhat contradictory reasons are given. One is the congestion in
Bombay harbour which is a good sign as far as Dabolim airport is concerned
because the Navy does seem to respond to the build up of civilian needs and
will hopefully see the handwriting on the wall there (at Dabolim) too. The
other is to get out of the strike range of Pak aircraft which seems a bit
defensive rather than "strategic" and not altogether flattering!

However, it is unfortunate that Seabird is being portrayed as somewhat
suboptimal (a glorified repair dock) and the airfield itself is almost an
afterthought. Either this facility is being purposely downplayed to avoid
the shift out of Dabolim or the Navy is constantly bungling its airport
planning (perhaps due to its "core competence" being in naval rather than
aerial warfare).

As for Mopa, the author categorically states that it does not make "any
economic sense" and that it will never "see the light of day". What he has
overlooked (or is actively preventing people from realising) is that
economic viability may be just a matter of putting pen to paper and stopping
civilian flights at Dabolim so that they have to use Mopa. Then what happens
to the south Goa businesses which depend on Dabolim? No point in playing
the ostrich.

It is not just Kochi which has moved from a military controlled airfield to
a greenfield international airport. Bangalore is also on the same track.
The challenge for Goa is to somehow set a NEW precedent and have civilian
flights continue and even expand at Dabolim --- even as Mopa is built up.
The city of London has 5 airports! The reason is the global trend towards
low cost domestic air travel which is defeated by costly new airports and
excessive distance to/from business and other centres. The Bangalore
experience needs close watching as more than any other Indian city it is
emerging as a capital of low cost carrier Air Deccan (although Mumbai and
Delhi benefit from apex type fares of all the majors).

Will the Goan people demand a much better deal for civilian flights at
Dabolim for the sake of low cost domestic air travel to and from Goa and see
to it that their leaders take up the matter actively with central including
defense authorities? That is the crux of the challenge which this issue
poses. Let's hope the people of Goa take an enlightened and courageous
stand.
Philip Thomas
2004-11-23 07:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22

The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence Committee? Hope so.
Bernado Colaco
2004-11-24 11:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Master Phil,
Goanet is mostly dominated by mumbai and english
africkanders and brazil. Most of their postings are
for vanity. Important issues are swept under the
carpet.

B. Colaco
Post by Philip Thomas
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22
The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE
of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders
get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on
Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence
Committee? Hope so.
___________________________________________________________
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
Get Yahoo! Mail www.yahoo.co.uk/10k
Philip Thomas
2004-11-24 11:18:34 UTC
Permalink
RE: Ivar Fjeld's "Letter of Introduction" of Nov 23

This is just to decline with all modesty the credit given by Ivar Fjeld to
me for introducing him to Goanet. But, yes, we did chat recently about
Dabolim Airport and I did urge him to share his experience on Goanet where a
discussion on the subject had begun lately. He was telling me how one of the
pioneers of charter flights to Goa, Condor, discontinued its flights when in
1996 it was refused permission to land just because some training flights
were underway.

I do find that Dabolim matters get low priority in our media. For example
the emergency experienced by an IA flight on Saturday is being reported in
the press only today (four days later!) To Goanet's credit, it was reported
herein on Monday I think. Also even under the best of circumstances (that is
when IFFI is not an obsession!) our government does not seem to be paying
any attention to the needs of the people for low cost air travel. It needs
to work energetically to get everybody concerned around a table to talk
directly to each other about their problems at Dabolim. Once these problems
are understood clearly perhaps some earnest negotiations can begin to
alleviate as many problems as possible.
Ivar Fjeld
2004-11-24 11:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Fellow netters.

I am not an expert on aviation. I neither have much
knowledge of the history of Dabolim Airport. But I am
a frequent air traveler, and have received 30-40
persons who have come to Goa on charter flights from
Europe. They have not been much impressed with the
facilities.

In the mid 90-ties, there was a large number of
Germans among the charter tourists in Goa. The Germans
were what we can call ?high-end travelers?, with cash
and willing to spend. The main German charter company
was Condor, owned by the Lufthansa Group. I 1996 one
on schedule incoming Condor flight to Goa was refused
to land. The reason: The military commander of Dabolim
was holding an exercise on the airstrip. Coming 7000
kilometers from overseas, the captain circled over the
Airport, renewing his request for permission to land.
The flight finally had to be diverted to Mumbai. The
end of the story was that the Condor Management
cancelled the whole winter program on Goa. This is not
a military secret. Even some national newspapers
covered this incident.

Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.

Sincerely Yours
Mr. Ivar Fjeld
Ribandar










__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
Philip Thomas
2004-11-25 04:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Re: Bernado Colaco's and Ivar Fjeld's of Nov 24

A day after complaining that the media are neglecting Dabolim airport
matters, I was virtually carpet bombed by articles in today's paper! One
article spoke about Kerala's move to develop a fourth international
standard airport. Another was about Jet bagging the award for "Best Domestic
Airline".

The third article which was the most tantalising one was outwardly not about
aviation at all. It was about Churchill Alemao's visit to Delhi on Nov 22
which he claims was solely to attend a meeting of the Defence Committee of
which he is reportedly a member. Let's hope he got to follow up about his
memo on Dabolim and that the results are disseminated one of these days in
the press or Goanet.

In the meantime I came across an issue of Business World magazine (Nov 22)
which also has two articles about aviation. One of them talks about Air
Sahara's radical plan to start a "hub" at Hyderabad beginning in 2005 to
provide quick connections for passengers flying from North India to South
India (including Goa). The other is about the travails of Bangalore's
proposed international airport. The latter make one feel that Goa is still
in with a chance of re-writing the prevailing rules of the airport
development game by pushing for a joint management of Dabolim (along the
lines of Honolulu) and a separate construction of Mopa.

Finally, a few days ago I came across a report that Gujarat holds the record
for the max number of airports (8) and it is anxious to convert one of the 7
into an international airport to complement Ahmedabad. So airport planning
and development is in fashion. What is Goa doing about it? A million dollar
question, right?
Mervyn Lobo
2004-11-27 03:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar Fjeld
Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.
Folks,
Can anyone in India inform us on how many
international airports there are in the country?
Thanks

Mervyn

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Philip Thomas
2004-11-22 06:13:28 UTC
Permalink
RE: Gilbert Menezes' of Nov 6 on the subject

This is a a good intervention based on the emerging multi-airport
perspective. Perhaps due to the newnesss of the concept, the picturisation
of Seabird and Mopa is inadequate and the author has inadvertently ended up
playing into the hands of vested interests (Navy and the south Goa hotel
lobby) and pushing for the status quo at Dabolim. We will touch on Seabird
and Mopa later but first a word about the motivation in the Navy to downsize
in Mumbai and shift to Seabird.

Two somewhat contradictory reasons are given. One is the congestion in
Bombay harbour which is a good sign as far as Dabolim airport is concerned
because the Navy does seem to respond to the build up of civilian needs and
will hopefully see the handwriting on the wall there (at Dabolim) too. The
other is to get out of the strike range of Pak aircraft which seems a bit
defensive rather than "strategic" and not altogether flattering!

However, it is unfortunate that Seabird is being portrayed as somewhat
suboptimal (a glorified repair dock) and the airfield itself is almost an
afterthought. Either this facility is being purposely downplayed to avoid
the shift out of Dabolim or the Navy is constantly bungling its airport
planning (perhaps due to its "core competence" being in naval rather than
aerial warfare).

As for Mopa, the author categorically states that it does not make "any
economic sense" and that it will never "see the light of day". What he has
overlooked (or is actively preventing people from realising) is that
economic viability may be just a matter of putting pen to paper and stopping
civilian flights at Dabolim so that they have to use Mopa. Then what happens
to the south Goa businesses which depend on Dabolim? No point in playing
the ostrich.

It is not just Kochi which has moved from a military controlled airfield to
a greenfield international airport. Bangalore is also on the same track.
The challenge for Goa is to somehow set a NEW precedent and have civilian
flights continue and even expand at Dabolim --- even as Mopa is built up.
The city of London has 5 airports! The reason is the global trend towards
low cost domestic air travel which is defeated by costly new airports and
excessive distance to/from business and other centres. The Bangalore
experience needs close watching as more than any other Indian city it is
emerging as a capital of low cost carrier Air Deccan (although Mumbai and
Delhi benefit from apex type fares of all the majors).

Will the Goan people demand a much better deal for civilian flights at
Dabolim for the sake of low cost domestic air travel to and from Goa and see
to it that their leaders take up the matter actively with central including
defense authorities? That is the crux of the challenge which this issue
poses. Let's hope the people of Goa take an enlightened and courageous
stand.
Philip Thomas
2004-11-23 07:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22

The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence Committee? Hope so.
Bernado Colaco
2004-11-24 11:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Master Phil,
Goanet is mostly dominated by mumbai and english
africkanders and brazil. Most of their postings are
for vanity. Important issues are swept under the
carpet.

B. Colaco
Post by Philip Thomas
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22
The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE
of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders
get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on
Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence
Committee? Hope so.
___________________________________________________________
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
Get Yahoo! Mail www.yahoo.co.uk/10k
Philip Thomas
2004-11-24 11:18:34 UTC
Permalink
RE: Ivar Fjeld's "Letter of Introduction" of Nov 23

This is just to decline with all modesty the credit given by Ivar Fjeld to
me for introducing him to Goanet. But, yes, we did chat recently about
Dabolim Airport and I did urge him to share his experience on Goanet where a
discussion on the subject had begun lately. He was telling me how one of the
pioneers of charter flights to Goa, Condor, discontinued its flights when in
1996 it was refused permission to land just because some training flights
were underway.

I do find that Dabolim matters get low priority in our media. For example
the emergency experienced by an IA flight on Saturday is being reported in
the press only today (four days later!) To Goanet's credit, it was reported
herein on Monday I think. Also even under the best of circumstances (that is
when IFFI is not an obsession!) our government does not seem to be paying
any attention to the needs of the people for low cost air travel. It needs
to work energetically to get everybody concerned around a table to talk
directly to each other about their problems at Dabolim. Once these problems
are understood clearly perhaps some earnest negotiations can begin to
alleviate as many problems as possible.
Ivar Fjeld
2004-11-24 11:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Fellow netters.

I am not an expert on aviation. I neither have much
knowledge of the history of Dabolim Airport. But I am
a frequent air traveler, and have received 30-40
persons who have come to Goa on charter flights from
Europe. They have not been much impressed with the
facilities.

In the mid 90-ties, there was a large number of
Germans among the charter tourists in Goa. The Germans
were what we can call ?high-end travelers?, with cash
and willing to spend. The main German charter company
was Condor, owned by the Lufthansa Group. I 1996 one
on schedule incoming Condor flight to Goa was refused
to land. The reason: The military commander of Dabolim
was holding an exercise on the airstrip. Coming 7000
kilometers from overseas, the captain circled over the
Airport, renewing his request for permission to land.
The flight finally had to be diverted to Mumbai. The
end of the story was that the Condor Management
cancelled the whole winter program on Goa. This is not
a military secret. Even some national newspapers
covered this incident.

Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.

Sincerely Yours
Mr. Ivar Fjeld
Ribandar










__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
Philip Thomas
2004-11-25 04:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Re: Bernado Colaco's and Ivar Fjeld's of Nov 24

A day after complaining that the media are neglecting Dabolim airport
matters, I was virtually carpet bombed by articles in today's paper! One
article spoke about Kerala's move to develop a fourth international
standard airport. Another was about Jet bagging the award for "Best Domestic
Airline".

The third article which was the most tantalising one was outwardly not about
aviation at all. It was about Churchill Alemao's visit to Delhi on Nov 22
which he claims was solely to attend a meeting of the Defence Committee of
which he is reportedly a member. Let's hope he got to follow up about his
memo on Dabolim and that the results are disseminated one of these days in
the press or Goanet.

In the meantime I came across an issue of Business World magazine (Nov 22)
which also has two articles about aviation. One of them talks about Air
Sahara's radical plan to start a "hub" at Hyderabad beginning in 2005 to
provide quick connections for passengers flying from North India to South
India (including Goa). The other is about the travails of Bangalore's
proposed international airport. The latter make one feel that Goa is still
in with a chance of re-writing the prevailing rules of the airport
development game by pushing for a joint management of Dabolim (along the
lines of Honolulu) and a separate construction of Mopa.

Finally, a few days ago I came across a report that Gujarat holds the record
for the max number of airports (8) and it is anxious to convert one of the 7
into an international airport to complement Ahmedabad. So airport planning
and development is in fashion. What is Goa doing about it? A million dollar
question, right?
Mervyn Lobo
2004-11-27 03:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar Fjeld
Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.
Folks,
Can anyone in India inform us on how many
international airports there are in the country?
Thanks

Mervyn

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Philip Thomas
2004-11-22 06:13:28 UTC
Permalink
RE: Gilbert Menezes' of Nov 6 on the subject

This is a a good intervention based on the emerging multi-airport
perspective. Perhaps due to the newnesss of the concept, the picturisation
of Seabird and Mopa is inadequate and the author has inadvertently ended up
playing into the hands of vested interests (Navy and the south Goa hotel
lobby) and pushing for the status quo at Dabolim. We will touch on Seabird
and Mopa later but first a word about the motivation in the Navy to downsize
in Mumbai and shift to Seabird.

Two somewhat contradictory reasons are given. One is the congestion in
Bombay harbour which is a good sign as far as Dabolim airport is concerned
because the Navy does seem to respond to the build up of civilian needs and
will hopefully see the handwriting on the wall there (at Dabolim) too. The
other is to get out of the strike range of Pak aircraft which seems a bit
defensive rather than "strategic" and not altogether flattering!

However, it is unfortunate that Seabird is being portrayed as somewhat
suboptimal (a glorified repair dock) and the airfield itself is almost an
afterthought. Either this facility is being purposely downplayed to avoid
the shift out of Dabolim or the Navy is constantly bungling its airport
planning (perhaps due to its "core competence" being in naval rather than
aerial warfare).

As for Mopa, the author categorically states that it does not make "any
economic sense" and that it will never "see the light of day". What he has
overlooked (or is actively preventing people from realising) is that
economic viability may be just a matter of putting pen to paper and stopping
civilian flights at Dabolim so that they have to use Mopa. Then what happens
to the south Goa businesses which depend on Dabolim? No point in playing
the ostrich.

It is not just Kochi which has moved from a military controlled airfield to
a greenfield international airport. Bangalore is also on the same track.
The challenge for Goa is to somehow set a NEW precedent and have civilian
flights continue and even expand at Dabolim --- even as Mopa is built up.
The city of London has 5 airports! The reason is the global trend towards
low cost domestic air travel which is defeated by costly new airports and
excessive distance to/from business and other centres. The Bangalore
experience needs close watching as more than any other Indian city it is
emerging as a capital of low cost carrier Air Deccan (although Mumbai and
Delhi benefit from apex type fares of all the majors).

Will the Goan people demand a much better deal for civilian flights at
Dabolim for the sake of low cost domestic air travel to and from Goa and see
to it that their leaders take up the matter actively with central including
defense authorities? That is the crux of the challenge which this issue
poses. Let's hope the people of Goa take an enlightened and courageous
stand.
Philip Thomas
2004-11-23 07:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22

The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence Committee? Hope so.
Bernado Colaco
2004-11-24 11:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Master Phil,
Goanet is mostly dominated by mumbai and english
africkanders and brazil. Most of their postings are
for vanity. Important issues are swept under the
carpet.

B. Colaco
Post by Philip Thomas
Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22
The challenge is to light a "fire" under the PEOPLE
of Goa about this issue
in the first instance. Only then will the leaders
get into the act. Right
now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on
Goanet. Btw, is
Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence
Committee? Hope so.
___________________________________________________________
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
Get Yahoo! Mail www.yahoo.co.uk/10k
Philip Thomas
2004-11-24 11:18:34 UTC
Permalink
RE: Ivar Fjeld's "Letter of Introduction" of Nov 23

This is just to decline with all modesty the credit given by Ivar Fjeld to
me for introducing him to Goanet. But, yes, we did chat recently about
Dabolim Airport and I did urge him to share his experience on Goanet where a
discussion on the subject had begun lately. He was telling me how one of the
pioneers of charter flights to Goa, Condor, discontinued its flights when in
1996 it was refused permission to land just because some training flights
were underway.

I do find that Dabolim matters get low priority in our media. For example
the emergency experienced by an IA flight on Saturday is being reported in
the press only today (four days later!) To Goanet's credit, it was reported
herein on Monday I think. Also even under the best of circumstances (that is
when IFFI is not an obsession!) our government does not seem to be paying
any attention to the needs of the people for low cost air travel. It needs
to work energetically to get everybody concerned around a table to talk
directly to each other about their problems at Dabolim. Once these problems
are understood clearly perhaps some earnest negotiations can begin to
alleviate as many problems as possible.
Ivar Fjeld
2004-11-24 11:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Fellow netters.

I am not an expert on aviation. I neither have much
knowledge of the history of Dabolim Airport. But I am
a frequent air traveler, and have received 30-40
persons who have come to Goa on charter flights from
Europe. They have not been much impressed with the
facilities.

In the mid 90-ties, there was a large number of
Germans among the charter tourists in Goa. The Germans
were what we can call ?high-end travelers?, with cash
and willing to spend. The main German charter company
was Condor, owned by the Lufthansa Group. I 1996 one
on schedule incoming Condor flight to Goa was refused
to land. The reason: The military commander of Dabolim
was holding an exercise on the airstrip. Coming 7000
kilometers from overseas, the captain circled over the
Airport, renewing his request for permission to land.
The flight finally had to be diverted to Mumbai. The
end of the story was that the Condor Management
cancelled the whole winter program on Goa. This is not
a military secret. Even some national newspapers
covered this incident.

Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.

Sincerely Yours
Mr. Ivar Fjeld
Ribandar










__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
Philip Thomas
2004-11-25 04:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Re: Bernado Colaco's and Ivar Fjeld's of Nov 24

A day after complaining that the media are neglecting Dabolim airport
matters, I was virtually carpet bombed by articles in today's paper! One
article spoke about Kerala's move to develop a fourth international
standard airport. Another was about Jet bagging the award for "Best Domestic
Airline".

The third article which was the most tantalising one was outwardly not about
aviation at all. It was about Churchill Alemao's visit to Delhi on Nov 22
which he claims was solely to attend a meeting of the Defence Committee of
which he is reportedly a member. Let's hope he got to follow up about his
memo on Dabolim and that the results are disseminated one of these days in
the press or Goanet.

In the meantime I came across an issue of Business World magazine (Nov 22)
which also has two articles about aviation. One of them talks about Air
Sahara's radical plan to start a "hub" at Hyderabad beginning in 2005 to
provide quick connections for passengers flying from North India to South
India (including Goa). The other is about the travails of Bangalore's
proposed international airport. The latter make one feel that Goa is still
in with a chance of re-writing the prevailing rules of the airport
development game by pushing for a joint management of Dabolim (along the
lines of Honolulu) and a separate construction of Mopa.

Finally, a few days ago I came across a report that Gujarat holds the record
for the max number of airports (8) and it is anxious to convert one of the 7
into an international airport to complement Ahmedabad. So airport planning
and development is in fashion. What is Goa doing about it? A million dollar
question, right?
Mervyn Lobo
2004-11-27 03:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar Fjeld
Today, India receives only 10 per cent of the amount
of tourist that's annually visits China. The Chinese
has understood that mixing of military airports with
civilian and commercial air traffic has its
limitations. The solutions; China is in its final
stages of building 90 (ninety) new international
airports.
Folks,
Can anyone in India inform us on how many
international airports there are in the country?
Thanks

Mervyn

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...