Discussion:
The cancer debate
(too old to reply)
Arnold Noronha
2006-10-29 04:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Frederick:
Apropos the overwrought ?cancer? issue, the protracted discussion among
certain of Goanet?s contentious scientists has reached an ?ad nauseam?
stage. This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to be
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle. Alas,
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists in
general. The tone and trend of the discussion in our cyberspace suggests
Goanet may be accommodating savants on a wild goose chase looking for Mickey
Mouse. It has turned out to be a long drawn out imbroglio ?Of Mice and Men?
(with apologies to John Steinbeck). Let?s hope a mutually satisfactory
denouement unfolds soon.
To all those brilliant minds involved in this raging match of wits and
self-righteous breast-beating, may I remind you of the wise words of the
renowned biologist Thomas Henry Huxley:

?The greatest tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by
an ugly fact?.

Sincerely

Arnold

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
Arnold Noronha
2006-10-29 04:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Frederick:
Apropos the overwrought ?cancer? issue, the protracted discussion among
certain of Goanet?s contentious scientists has reached an ?ad nauseam?
stage. This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to be
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle. Alas,
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists in
general. The tone and trend of the discussion in our cyberspace suggests
Goanet may be accommodating savants on a wild goose chase looking for Mickey
Mouse. It has turned out to be a long drawn out imbroglio ?Of Mice and Men?
(with apologies to John Steinbeck). Let?s hope a mutually satisfactory
denouement unfolds soon.
To all those brilliant minds involved in this raging match of wits and
self-righteous breast-beating, may I remind you of the wise words of the
renowned biologist Thomas Henry Huxley:

?The greatest tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by
an ugly fact?.

Sincerely

Arnold

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
Arnold Noronha
2006-10-29 04:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Frederick:
Apropos the overwrought ?cancer? issue, the protracted discussion among
certain of Goanet?s contentious scientists has reached an ?ad nauseam?
stage. This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to be
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle. Alas,
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists in
general. The tone and trend of the discussion in our cyberspace suggests
Goanet may be accommodating savants on a wild goose chase looking for Mickey
Mouse. It has turned out to be a long drawn out imbroglio ?Of Mice and Men?
(with apologies to John Steinbeck). Let?s hope a mutually satisfactory
denouement unfolds soon.
To all those brilliant minds involved in this raging match of wits and
self-righteous breast-beating, may I remind you of the wise words of the
renowned biologist Thomas Henry Huxley:

?The greatest tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by
an ugly fact?.

Sincerely

Arnold

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
Arnold Noronha
2006-10-29 04:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Frederick:
Apropos the overwrought ?cancer? issue, the protracted discussion among
certain of Goanet?s contentious scientists has reached an ?ad nauseam?
stage. This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to be
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle. Alas,
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists in
general. The tone and trend of the discussion in our cyberspace suggests
Goanet may be accommodating savants on a wild goose chase looking for Mickey
Mouse. It has turned out to be a long drawn out imbroglio ?Of Mice and Men?
(with apologies to John Steinbeck). Let?s hope a mutually satisfactory
denouement unfolds soon.
To all those brilliant minds involved in this raging match of wits and
self-righteous breast-beating, may I remind you of the wise words of the
renowned biologist Thomas Henry Huxley:

?The greatest tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by
an ugly fact?.

Sincerely

Arnold

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
Arnold Noronha
2006-10-29 04:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Frederick:
Apropos the overwrought ?cancer? issue, the protracted discussion among
certain of Goanet?s contentious scientists has reached an ?ad nauseam?
stage. This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to be
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle. Alas,
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists in
general. The tone and trend of the discussion in our cyberspace suggests
Goanet may be accommodating savants on a wild goose chase looking for Mickey
Mouse. It has turned out to be a long drawn out imbroglio ?Of Mice and Men?
(with apologies to John Steinbeck). Let?s hope a mutually satisfactory
denouement unfolds soon.
To all those brilliant minds involved in this raging match of wits and
self-righteous breast-beating, may I remind you of the wise words of the
renowned biologist Thomas Henry Huxley:

?The greatest tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by
an ugly fact?.

Sincerely

Arnold

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
Arnold Noronha
2006-10-29 04:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Frederick:
Apropos the overwrought ?cancer? issue, the protracted discussion among
certain of Goanet?s contentious scientists has reached an ?ad nauseam?
stage. This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to be
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle. Alas,
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists in
general. The tone and trend of the discussion in our cyberspace suggests
Goanet may be accommodating savants on a wild goose chase looking for Mickey
Mouse. It has turned out to be a long drawn out imbroglio ?Of Mice and Men?
(with apologies to John Steinbeck). Let?s hope a mutually satisfactory
denouement unfolds soon.
To all those brilliant minds involved in this raging match of wits and
self-righteous breast-beating, may I remind you of the wise words of the
renowned biologist Thomas Henry Huxley:

?The greatest tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by
an ugly fact?.

Sincerely

Arnold

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
Arnold Noronha
2006-10-29 04:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Frederick:
Apropos the overwrought ?cancer? issue, the protracted discussion among
certain of Goanet?s contentious scientists has reached an ?ad nauseam?
stage. This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to be
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle. Alas,
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists in
general. The tone and trend of the discussion in our cyberspace suggests
Goanet may be accommodating savants on a wild goose chase looking for Mickey
Mouse. It has turned out to be a long drawn out imbroglio ?Of Mice and Men?
(with apologies to John Steinbeck). Let?s hope a mutually satisfactory
denouement unfolds soon.
To all those brilliant minds involved in this raging match of wits and
self-righteous breast-beating, may I remind you of the wise words of the
renowned biologist Thomas Henry Huxley:

?The greatest tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by
an ugly fact?.

Sincerely

Arnold

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
Edward Verdes
2006-11-01 14:14:50 UTC
Permalink
(Although the debate is closed, I would request the Admin to allow me
to post this msg as this is related to goan cancer cases...tks..Edward)

The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.

In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
After several tests in both the hospitals, and in house consultations
with doctors, finally only the keens of both the patients were
informed of the Cancerous disease, and the time each had to live.
Both of them were advised immediate surgery.

The male's surgery was successful, but was advised to return
every 2-3 months to bombay for radiation or chemo therapy, or he could
do it in Goa. This patient however lived for a year and half but
had to go thru terrible times cause of the side effects of therapy.
The female died, 4 days after the surgery.

Back home, there was a rumor that the doctors killed the
female patient. This is not one case..there have been
many many cases like this and the blame is always put on
the doctors in Bombay Hospitals. I am not sure if the
journalist who died recently had also undergone treatment/surgery
in bombay, but I know of a two tiatrists who have passed away.

It is said that Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai is
one of the Best Cancer Hospitals in India/Asia.
During my several visits and stay with the patients in the
hosptial I came to know that there were few Goan doctors in the
Hospital, one of them was Dr. Venkatesh Hegde (from Margao) who at
that time was in the Children's ward. I have also noted that
Goan doctors in these hospitals are helpful to fellow goans.

Now my question is..are there any Hospitals in goa
which has good doctors for cancer surgery?
If so, then why do the local doctors not refer their
cancer patients to these doctors?
Secondly shouldn't the doctors in Goa inform their patients
about their sickness?

Dev borem korum
Edward Verdes
Post by Arnold Noronha
This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to
be
Post by Arnold Noronha
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle.
Alas,
Post by Arnold Noronha
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists
in
Post by Arnold Noronha
general.
Arnold
Roland Francis
2006-11-02 03:29:28 UTC
Permalink
DEATH AND DENIAL

Very interesting point you bring up Edward.

In my experience, the Goan ethos frowns upon telling the victim of
impending death that he or she is shortly facing death. I have seen
this happen several times in my own extended family. There will be
hush-hushed whispers among the household and this may travel to others
outside the family circle, but the hapless person is the last to know.

The biggest culprits are (in Goa) the doctors and medical personnel
themselves. I don't know what is the rationale they employ, but when a
life threatening medical fact is known, it will be conveyed to the
spouse, the parents, the in-laws, the cousins - in fact anyone and
everyone except the poor person himself. Thankfully this does not
happen in the western world, where the doctor directly tells the
patient alone (nobody present) and leaves it to him or her to convey
it to anyone else. Part of this strategy may be laid at the door of
medical privacy, but I believe they are sincere in wanting the person
to come to terms with it before he can be given all kinds of sympathy
and advice from others however close. Some doctors in this part of the
world are brusque and terse in conveying the "death sentence" and
others are compassionate and caring. I have seen both instances. I
suppose the former manner is employed to avoid professionalism being
compromised while the latter is practised by doctors who believe they
are human beings first and doctors afterwards.

Personally, I would have it no other way than be told to me as soon as
it is known. It is my life, not someone else's and I should have the
right to tell anybody else in the manner and timing that I decide
upon, keeping in mind that I need to arrange my affairs within the
constraints that time allows.

Roland.
Post by Edward Verdes
The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.
In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
Roland Francis
2006-11-02 03:29:28 UTC
Permalink
DEATH AND DENIAL

Very interesting point you bring up Edward.

In my experience, the Goan ethos frowns upon telling the victim of
impending death that he or she is shortly facing death. I have seen
this happen several times in my own extended family. There will be
hush-hushed whispers among the household and this may travel to others
outside the family circle, but the hapless person is the last to know.

The biggest culprits are (in Goa) the doctors and medical personnel
themselves. I don't know what is the rationale they employ, but when a
life threatening medical fact is known, it will be conveyed to the
spouse, the parents, the in-laws, the cousins - in fact anyone and
everyone except the poor person himself. Thankfully this does not
happen in the western world, where the doctor directly tells the
patient alone (nobody present) and leaves it to him or her to convey
it to anyone else. Part of this strategy may be laid at the door of
medical privacy, but I believe they are sincere in wanting the person
to come to terms with it before he can be given all kinds of sympathy
and advice from others however close. Some doctors in this part of the
world are brusque and terse in conveying the "death sentence" and
others are compassionate and caring. I have seen both instances. I
suppose the former manner is employed to avoid professionalism being
compromised while the latter is practised by doctors who believe they
are human beings first and doctors afterwards.

Personally, I would have it no other way than be told to me as soon as
it is known. It is my life, not someone else's and I should have the
right to tell anybody else in the manner and timing that I decide
upon, keeping in mind that I need to arrange my affairs within the
constraints that time allows.

Roland.
Post by Edward Verdes
The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.
In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
Roland Francis
2006-11-02 03:29:28 UTC
Permalink
DEATH AND DENIAL

Very interesting point you bring up Edward.

In my experience, the Goan ethos frowns upon telling the victim of
impending death that he or she is shortly facing death. I have seen
this happen several times in my own extended family. There will be
hush-hushed whispers among the household and this may travel to others
outside the family circle, but the hapless person is the last to know.

The biggest culprits are (in Goa) the doctors and medical personnel
themselves. I don't know what is the rationale they employ, but when a
life threatening medical fact is known, it will be conveyed to the
spouse, the parents, the in-laws, the cousins - in fact anyone and
everyone except the poor person himself. Thankfully this does not
happen in the western world, where the doctor directly tells the
patient alone (nobody present) and leaves it to him or her to convey
it to anyone else. Part of this strategy may be laid at the door of
medical privacy, but I believe they are sincere in wanting the person
to come to terms with it before he can be given all kinds of sympathy
and advice from others however close. Some doctors in this part of the
world are brusque and terse in conveying the "death sentence" and
others are compassionate and caring. I have seen both instances. I
suppose the former manner is employed to avoid professionalism being
compromised while the latter is practised by doctors who believe they
are human beings first and doctors afterwards.

Personally, I would have it no other way than be told to me as soon as
it is known. It is my life, not someone else's and I should have the
right to tell anybody else in the manner and timing that I decide
upon, keeping in mind that I need to arrange my affairs within the
constraints that time allows.

Roland.
Post by Edward Verdes
The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.
In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
Roland Francis
2006-11-02 03:29:28 UTC
Permalink
DEATH AND DENIAL

Very interesting point you bring up Edward.

In my experience, the Goan ethos frowns upon telling the victim of
impending death that he or she is shortly facing death. I have seen
this happen several times in my own extended family. There will be
hush-hushed whispers among the household and this may travel to others
outside the family circle, but the hapless person is the last to know.

The biggest culprits are (in Goa) the doctors and medical personnel
themselves. I don't know what is the rationale they employ, but when a
life threatening medical fact is known, it will be conveyed to the
spouse, the parents, the in-laws, the cousins - in fact anyone and
everyone except the poor person himself. Thankfully this does not
happen in the western world, where the doctor directly tells the
patient alone (nobody present) and leaves it to him or her to convey
it to anyone else. Part of this strategy may be laid at the door of
medical privacy, but I believe they are sincere in wanting the person
to come to terms with it before he can be given all kinds of sympathy
and advice from others however close. Some doctors in this part of the
world are brusque and terse in conveying the "death sentence" and
others are compassionate and caring. I have seen both instances. I
suppose the former manner is employed to avoid professionalism being
compromised while the latter is practised by doctors who believe they
are human beings first and doctors afterwards.

Personally, I would have it no other way than be told to me as soon as
it is known. It is my life, not someone else's and I should have the
right to tell anybody else in the manner and timing that I decide
upon, keeping in mind that I need to arrange my affairs within the
constraints that time allows.

Roland.
Post by Edward Verdes
The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.
In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
Roland Francis
2006-11-02 03:29:28 UTC
Permalink
DEATH AND DENIAL

Very interesting point you bring up Edward.

In my experience, the Goan ethos frowns upon telling the victim of
impending death that he or she is shortly facing death. I have seen
this happen several times in my own extended family. There will be
hush-hushed whispers among the household and this may travel to others
outside the family circle, but the hapless person is the last to know.

The biggest culprits are (in Goa) the doctors and medical personnel
themselves. I don't know what is the rationale they employ, but when a
life threatening medical fact is known, it will be conveyed to the
spouse, the parents, the in-laws, the cousins - in fact anyone and
everyone except the poor person himself. Thankfully this does not
happen in the western world, where the doctor directly tells the
patient alone (nobody present) and leaves it to him or her to convey
it to anyone else. Part of this strategy may be laid at the door of
medical privacy, but I believe they are sincere in wanting the person
to come to terms with it before he can be given all kinds of sympathy
and advice from others however close. Some doctors in this part of the
world are brusque and terse in conveying the "death sentence" and
others are compassionate and caring. I have seen both instances. I
suppose the former manner is employed to avoid professionalism being
compromised while the latter is practised by doctors who believe they
are human beings first and doctors afterwards.

Personally, I would have it no other way than be told to me as soon as
it is known. It is my life, not someone else's and I should have the
right to tell anybody else in the manner and timing that I decide
upon, keeping in mind that I need to arrange my affairs within the
constraints that time allows.

Roland.
Post by Edward Verdes
The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.
In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
Roland Francis
2006-11-02 03:29:28 UTC
Permalink
DEATH AND DENIAL

Very interesting point you bring up Edward.

In my experience, the Goan ethos frowns upon telling the victim of
impending death that he or she is shortly facing death. I have seen
this happen several times in my own extended family. There will be
hush-hushed whispers among the household and this may travel to others
outside the family circle, but the hapless person is the last to know.

The biggest culprits are (in Goa) the doctors and medical personnel
themselves. I don't know what is the rationale they employ, but when a
life threatening medical fact is known, it will be conveyed to the
spouse, the parents, the in-laws, the cousins - in fact anyone and
everyone except the poor person himself. Thankfully this does not
happen in the western world, where the doctor directly tells the
patient alone (nobody present) and leaves it to him or her to convey
it to anyone else. Part of this strategy may be laid at the door of
medical privacy, but I believe they are sincere in wanting the person
to come to terms with it before he can be given all kinds of sympathy
and advice from others however close. Some doctors in this part of the
world are brusque and terse in conveying the "death sentence" and
others are compassionate and caring. I have seen both instances. I
suppose the former manner is employed to avoid professionalism being
compromised while the latter is practised by doctors who believe they
are human beings first and doctors afterwards.

Personally, I would have it no other way than be told to me as soon as
it is known. It is my life, not someone else's and I should have the
right to tell anybody else in the manner and timing that I decide
upon, keeping in mind that I need to arrange my affairs within the
constraints that time allows.

Roland.
Post by Edward Verdes
The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.
In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
Roland Francis
2006-11-02 03:29:28 UTC
Permalink
DEATH AND DENIAL

Very interesting point you bring up Edward.

In my experience, the Goan ethos frowns upon telling the victim of
impending death that he or she is shortly facing death. I have seen
this happen several times in my own extended family. There will be
hush-hushed whispers among the household and this may travel to others
outside the family circle, but the hapless person is the last to know.

The biggest culprits are (in Goa) the doctors and medical personnel
themselves. I don't know what is the rationale they employ, but when a
life threatening medical fact is known, it will be conveyed to the
spouse, the parents, the in-laws, the cousins - in fact anyone and
everyone except the poor person himself. Thankfully this does not
happen in the western world, where the doctor directly tells the
patient alone (nobody present) and leaves it to him or her to convey
it to anyone else. Part of this strategy may be laid at the door of
medical privacy, but I believe they are sincere in wanting the person
to come to terms with it before he can be given all kinds of sympathy
and advice from others however close. Some doctors in this part of the
world are brusque and terse in conveying the "death sentence" and
others are compassionate and caring. I have seen both instances. I
suppose the former manner is employed to avoid professionalism being
compromised while the latter is practised by doctors who believe they
are human beings first and doctors afterwards.

Personally, I would have it no other way than be told to me as soon as
it is known. It is my life, not someone else's and I should have the
right to tell anybody else in the manner and timing that I decide
upon, keeping in mind that I need to arrange my affairs within the
constraints that time allows.

Roland.
Post by Edward Verdes
The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.
In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
Mario Goveia
2006-11-03 16:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
DEATH AND DENIAL
Personally, I would have it no other way than be
told to me as soon as it is known. It is my life,
not someone else's and I should have the right to
tell anybody else in the manner and timing
that I decide upon, keeping in mind that I need to
arrange my affairs within the constraints that time
allows.
Mario adds:
This post reminded me of my own personal experience.
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Though I was never declared terminal, I was given a
50/50 chance of surviving for five years if my largely
experimental treatments didn't work.
I had always joked that the only good thing about
cancer is that it gives you the time to get your act
together, organize your affairs, and perhaps do some
things that you were previously unable or unwilling to
make the time for, before checking out.
Agonizing, as some do, as to why you were chosen to
bear this micro-cross is ludicrous, because there is
no real answer, it is a moot issue, and all that is
happening is that your cycle of life may be coming to
an end, as it was inevitably going to anyway.
The minute we are born, we begin to die. The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
Since I had already lived way beyond my warranty
period, had escaped death in actual and possible
accidents at least 5 times previously, and had seen
younger friends and relatives die "prematurely", I
figured I had little to complain about. From them I
had learned how to face death, accept it as
inevitable, yet fight it with every fiber of my being
right down into the ground, and do so with as much
grace and dignity as I could muster. Thankfully, all
these concepts and philosophies are now shelved, to be
dusted off and used at the next oportunity, if there
is one with a similar time frame.
Contingency plans were made, in my own mind, as to
what to do in sequence if it came to that, who to go
visit, what sights to go see if there was time and
energy, whether to be buried or cremated, do I want to
be buried with my ancestors in the old world or with
my descendants in the new world, what should my
obituary say, what should my headstone say, stuff we
never have the opportunity to think of normally. One
has hours and hours to think such thoughts while
strapped to an IV tube during chemotherapy, comforted
only by those around you who somehow always seemed to
me to be worse off than I was.
In disclosing my situation to others I experienced
some of the ethos Roland speaks of albeit from a very
few older family members. I chose to tell those
closest to me by a carefully planned process, starting
with the parents and then going down the levels of
relatives by rank, i.e. Uncles and Aunts, siblings,
first cousins, etc. ending with close friends. Each
level was informed in sequence and at the same time so
that no one could complain about when they knew, and
everyone knew that the level above them had been told
before them. It was very important to me that
everyone be informed by me alone, in my own words,
whether it was face-to-face, or by phone or by email.
It was very important to me to tell the aging parents,
half way around the world, face-to-face, which
created logistical and timing issues as well.
Everyone else had to wait their turn.
The responses and their timing were fascinating. Some
relatives whom I had always thought cared little about
me were the first to call and commiserate. A few
relatives and close friends, whom I was very close to,
were not heard from until we met much later, and then
made sheepish excuses. I began to realize that it was
not that they cared for me any less, but that each one
was acting on deep psychological feelings about their
own mortality, which I had rudely reminded them of and
forced to confront. Not everyone is comfortable with
coming face to face with the mortality of someone
close to them, or their own.
One big change in my own psyche was that I used to be
uncomfortable facing those close to me who were very
ill or who I knew were dying. Now, I reach out to
them and spend time with them, if that is what they
want.
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this issue,
please feel free to email me with any questions or
comments.
Mervyn Lobo
2006-11-04 02:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
The minute we are born, we begin to die.
Mario,
I belong a different, a younger and perhaps a much
happier school. My 'appiness is based on the premise
that when we are born, we begin to live :-)
Post by Mario Goveia
The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
St. Peter is out fishing every day. However, people
are dying to get into heaven. So every morning he gets
to the gates, lets the good folks in and goes out
fishing.
Post by Mario Goveia
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this
issue, please feel free to email me with any
questions or comments.
Yep, I am going to send you a private message.
However, just in case you do not get it and are again
tripping and searching for my posts in the archives,
here is my question:
If you go before me, can you come back and whisper in
my ear the winning numbers of the Canadian 6/49 lotto?

I promise to do the same if I get to heaven before
you.

Mervyn Lobo




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Edward Verdes
2006-11-01 14:14:50 UTC
Permalink
(Although the debate is closed, I would request the Admin to allow me
to post this msg as this is related to goan cancer cases...tks..Edward)

The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.

In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
After several tests in both the hospitals, and in house consultations
with doctors, finally only the keens of both the patients were
informed of the Cancerous disease, and the time each had to live.
Both of them were advised immediate surgery.

The male's surgery was successful, but was advised to return
every 2-3 months to bombay for radiation or chemo therapy, or he could
do it in Goa. This patient however lived for a year and half but
had to go thru terrible times cause of the side effects of therapy.
The female died, 4 days after the surgery.

Back home, there was a rumor that the doctors killed the
female patient. This is not one case..there have been
many many cases like this and the blame is always put on
the doctors in Bombay Hospitals. I am not sure if the
journalist who died recently had also undergone treatment/surgery
in bombay, but I know of a two tiatrists who have passed away.

It is said that Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai is
one of the Best Cancer Hospitals in India/Asia.
During my several visits and stay with the patients in the
hosptial I came to know that there were few Goan doctors in the
Hospital, one of them was Dr. Venkatesh Hegde (from Margao) who at
that time was in the Children's ward. I have also noted that
Goan doctors in these hospitals are helpful to fellow goans.

Now my question is..are there any Hospitals in goa
which has good doctors for cancer surgery?
If so, then why do the local doctors not refer their
cancer patients to these doctors?
Secondly shouldn't the doctors in Goa inform their patients
about their sickness?

Dev borem korum
Edward Verdes
Post by Arnold Noronha
This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to
be
Post by Arnold Noronha
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle.
Alas,
Post by Arnold Noronha
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists
in
Post by Arnold Noronha
general.
Arnold
Mario Goveia
2006-11-03 16:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
DEATH AND DENIAL
Personally, I would have it no other way than be
told to me as soon as it is known. It is my life,
not someone else's and I should have the right to
tell anybody else in the manner and timing
that I decide upon, keeping in mind that I need to
arrange my affairs within the constraints that time
allows.
Mario adds:
This post reminded me of my own personal experience.
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Though I was never declared terminal, I was given a
50/50 chance of surviving for five years if my largely
experimental treatments didn't work.
I had always joked that the only good thing about
cancer is that it gives you the time to get your act
together, organize your affairs, and perhaps do some
things that you were previously unable or unwilling to
make the time for, before checking out.
Agonizing, as some do, as to why you were chosen to
bear this micro-cross is ludicrous, because there is
no real answer, it is a moot issue, and all that is
happening is that your cycle of life may be coming to
an end, as it was inevitably going to anyway.
The minute we are born, we begin to die. The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
Since I had already lived way beyond my warranty
period, had escaped death in actual and possible
accidents at least 5 times previously, and had seen
younger friends and relatives die "prematurely", I
figured I had little to complain about. From them I
had learned how to face death, accept it as
inevitable, yet fight it with every fiber of my being
right down into the ground, and do so with as much
grace and dignity as I could muster. Thankfully, all
these concepts and philosophies are now shelved, to be
dusted off and used at the next oportunity, if there
is one with a similar time frame.
Contingency plans were made, in my own mind, as to
what to do in sequence if it came to that, who to go
visit, what sights to go see if there was time and
energy, whether to be buried or cremated, do I want to
be buried with my ancestors in the old world or with
my descendants in the new world, what should my
obituary say, what should my headstone say, stuff we
never have the opportunity to think of normally. One
has hours and hours to think such thoughts while
strapped to an IV tube during chemotherapy, comforted
only by those around you who somehow always seemed to
me to be worse off than I was.
In disclosing my situation to others I experienced
some of the ethos Roland speaks of albeit from a very
few older family members. I chose to tell those
closest to me by a carefully planned process, starting
with the parents and then going down the levels of
relatives by rank, i.e. Uncles and Aunts, siblings,
first cousins, etc. ending with close friends. Each
level was informed in sequence and at the same time so
that no one could complain about when they knew, and
everyone knew that the level above them had been told
before them. It was very important to me that
everyone be informed by me alone, in my own words,
whether it was face-to-face, or by phone or by email.
It was very important to me to tell the aging parents,
half way around the world, face-to-face, which
created logistical and timing issues as well.
Everyone else had to wait their turn.
The responses and their timing were fascinating. Some
relatives whom I had always thought cared little about
me were the first to call and commiserate. A few
relatives and close friends, whom I was very close to,
were not heard from until we met much later, and then
made sheepish excuses. I began to realize that it was
not that they cared for me any less, but that each one
was acting on deep psychological feelings about their
own mortality, which I had rudely reminded them of and
forced to confront. Not everyone is comfortable with
coming face to face with the mortality of someone
close to them, or their own.
One big change in my own psyche was that I used to be
uncomfortable facing those close to me who were very
ill or who I knew were dying. Now, I reach out to
them and spend time with them, if that is what they
want.
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this issue,
please feel free to email me with any questions or
comments.
Mervyn Lobo
2006-11-04 02:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
The minute we are born, we begin to die.
Mario,
I belong a different, a younger and perhaps a much
happier school. My 'appiness is based on the premise
that when we are born, we begin to live :-)
Post by Mario Goveia
The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
St. Peter is out fishing every day. However, people
are dying to get into heaven. So every morning he gets
to the gates, lets the good folks in and goes out
fishing.
Post by Mario Goveia
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this
issue, please feel free to email me with any
questions or comments.
Yep, I am going to send you a private message.
However, just in case you do not get it and are again
tripping and searching for my posts in the archives,
here is my question:
If you go before me, can you come back and whisper in
my ear the winning numbers of the Canadian 6/49 lotto?

I promise to do the same if I get to heaven before
you.

Mervyn Lobo




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Edward Verdes
2006-11-01 14:14:50 UTC
Permalink
(Although the debate is closed, I would request the Admin to allow me
to post this msg as this is related to goan cancer cases...tks..Edward)

The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.

In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
After several tests in both the hospitals, and in house consultations
with doctors, finally only the keens of both the patients were
informed of the Cancerous disease, and the time each had to live.
Both of them were advised immediate surgery.

The male's surgery was successful, but was advised to return
every 2-3 months to bombay for radiation or chemo therapy, or he could
do it in Goa. This patient however lived for a year and half but
had to go thru terrible times cause of the side effects of therapy.
The female died, 4 days after the surgery.

Back home, there was a rumor that the doctors killed the
female patient. This is not one case..there have been
many many cases like this and the blame is always put on
the doctors in Bombay Hospitals. I am not sure if the
journalist who died recently had also undergone treatment/surgery
in bombay, but I know of a two tiatrists who have passed away.

It is said that Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai is
one of the Best Cancer Hospitals in India/Asia.
During my several visits and stay with the patients in the
hosptial I came to know that there were few Goan doctors in the
Hospital, one of them was Dr. Venkatesh Hegde (from Margao) who at
that time was in the Children's ward. I have also noted that
Goan doctors in these hospitals are helpful to fellow goans.

Now my question is..are there any Hospitals in goa
which has good doctors for cancer surgery?
If so, then why do the local doctors not refer their
cancer patients to these doctors?
Secondly shouldn't the doctors in Goa inform their patients
about their sickness?

Dev borem korum
Edward Verdes
Post by Arnold Noronha
This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to
be
Post by Arnold Noronha
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle.
Alas,
Post by Arnold Noronha
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists
in
Post by Arnold Noronha
general.
Arnold
Mario Goveia
2006-11-03 16:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
DEATH AND DENIAL
Personally, I would have it no other way than be
told to me as soon as it is known. It is my life,
not someone else's and I should have the right to
tell anybody else in the manner and timing
that I decide upon, keeping in mind that I need to
arrange my affairs within the constraints that time
allows.
Mario adds:
This post reminded me of my own personal experience.
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Though I was never declared terminal, I was given a
50/50 chance of surviving for five years if my largely
experimental treatments didn't work.
I had always joked that the only good thing about
cancer is that it gives you the time to get your act
together, organize your affairs, and perhaps do some
things that you were previously unable or unwilling to
make the time for, before checking out.
Agonizing, as some do, as to why you were chosen to
bear this micro-cross is ludicrous, because there is
no real answer, it is a moot issue, and all that is
happening is that your cycle of life may be coming to
an end, as it was inevitably going to anyway.
The minute we are born, we begin to die. The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
Since I had already lived way beyond my warranty
period, had escaped death in actual and possible
accidents at least 5 times previously, and had seen
younger friends and relatives die "prematurely", I
figured I had little to complain about. From them I
had learned how to face death, accept it as
inevitable, yet fight it with every fiber of my being
right down into the ground, and do so with as much
grace and dignity as I could muster. Thankfully, all
these concepts and philosophies are now shelved, to be
dusted off and used at the next oportunity, if there
is one with a similar time frame.
Contingency plans were made, in my own mind, as to
what to do in sequence if it came to that, who to go
visit, what sights to go see if there was time and
energy, whether to be buried or cremated, do I want to
be buried with my ancestors in the old world or with
my descendants in the new world, what should my
obituary say, what should my headstone say, stuff we
never have the opportunity to think of normally. One
has hours and hours to think such thoughts while
strapped to an IV tube during chemotherapy, comforted
only by those around you who somehow always seemed to
me to be worse off than I was.
In disclosing my situation to others I experienced
some of the ethos Roland speaks of albeit from a very
few older family members. I chose to tell those
closest to me by a carefully planned process, starting
with the parents and then going down the levels of
relatives by rank, i.e. Uncles and Aunts, siblings,
first cousins, etc. ending with close friends. Each
level was informed in sequence and at the same time so
that no one could complain about when they knew, and
everyone knew that the level above them had been told
before them. It was very important to me that
everyone be informed by me alone, in my own words,
whether it was face-to-face, or by phone or by email.
It was very important to me to tell the aging parents,
half way around the world, face-to-face, which
created logistical and timing issues as well.
Everyone else had to wait their turn.
The responses and their timing were fascinating. Some
relatives whom I had always thought cared little about
me were the first to call and commiserate. A few
relatives and close friends, whom I was very close to,
were not heard from until we met much later, and then
made sheepish excuses. I began to realize that it was
not that they cared for me any less, but that each one
was acting on deep psychological feelings about their
own mortality, which I had rudely reminded them of and
forced to confront. Not everyone is comfortable with
coming face to face with the mortality of someone
close to them, or their own.
One big change in my own psyche was that I used to be
uncomfortable facing those close to me who were very
ill or who I knew were dying. Now, I reach out to
them and spend time with them, if that is what they
want.
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this issue,
please feel free to email me with any questions or
comments.
Mervyn Lobo
2006-11-04 02:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
The minute we are born, we begin to die.
Mario,
I belong a different, a younger and perhaps a much
happier school. My 'appiness is based on the premise
that when we are born, we begin to live :-)
Post by Mario Goveia
The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
St. Peter is out fishing every day. However, people
are dying to get into heaven. So every morning he gets
to the gates, lets the good folks in and goes out
fishing.
Post by Mario Goveia
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this
issue, please feel free to email me with any
questions or comments.
Yep, I am going to send you a private message.
However, just in case you do not get it and are again
tripping and searching for my posts in the archives,
here is my question:
If you go before me, can you come back and whisper in
my ear the winning numbers of the Canadian 6/49 lotto?

I promise to do the same if I get to heaven before
you.

Mervyn Lobo




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Edward Verdes
2006-11-01 14:14:50 UTC
Permalink
(Although the debate is closed, I would request the Admin to allow me
to post this msg as this is related to goan cancer cases...tks..Edward)

The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.

In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
After several tests in both the hospitals, and in house consultations
with doctors, finally only the keens of both the patients were
informed of the Cancerous disease, and the time each had to live.
Both of them were advised immediate surgery.

The male's surgery was successful, but was advised to return
every 2-3 months to bombay for radiation or chemo therapy, or he could
do it in Goa. This patient however lived for a year and half but
had to go thru terrible times cause of the side effects of therapy.
The female died, 4 days after the surgery.

Back home, there was a rumor that the doctors killed the
female patient. This is not one case..there have been
many many cases like this and the blame is always put on
the doctors in Bombay Hospitals. I am not sure if the
journalist who died recently had also undergone treatment/surgery
in bombay, but I know of a two tiatrists who have passed away.

It is said that Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai is
one of the Best Cancer Hospitals in India/Asia.
During my several visits and stay with the patients in the
hosptial I came to know that there were few Goan doctors in the
Hospital, one of them was Dr. Venkatesh Hegde (from Margao) who at
that time was in the Children's ward. I have also noted that
Goan doctors in these hospitals are helpful to fellow goans.

Now my question is..are there any Hospitals in goa
which has good doctors for cancer surgery?
If so, then why do the local doctors not refer their
cancer patients to these doctors?
Secondly shouldn't the doctors in Goa inform their patients
about their sickness?

Dev borem korum
Edward Verdes
Post by Arnold Noronha
This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to
be
Post by Arnold Noronha
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle.
Alas,
Post by Arnold Noronha
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists
in
Post by Arnold Noronha
general.
Arnold
Mario Goveia
2006-11-03 16:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
DEATH AND DENIAL
Personally, I would have it no other way than be
told to me as soon as it is known. It is my life,
not someone else's and I should have the right to
tell anybody else in the manner and timing
that I decide upon, keeping in mind that I need to
arrange my affairs within the constraints that time
allows.
Mario adds:
This post reminded me of my own personal experience.
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Though I was never declared terminal, I was given a
50/50 chance of surviving for five years if my largely
experimental treatments didn't work.
I had always joked that the only good thing about
cancer is that it gives you the time to get your act
together, organize your affairs, and perhaps do some
things that you were previously unable or unwilling to
make the time for, before checking out.
Agonizing, as some do, as to why you were chosen to
bear this micro-cross is ludicrous, because there is
no real answer, it is a moot issue, and all that is
happening is that your cycle of life may be coming to
an end, as it was inevitably going to anyway.
The minute we are born, we begin to die. The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
Since I had already lived way beyond my warranty
period, had escaped death in actual and possible
accidents at least 5 times previously, and had seen
younger friends and relatives die "prematurely", I
figured I had little to complain about. From them I
had learned how to face death, accept it as
inevitable, yet fight it with every fiber of my being
right down into the ground, and do so with as much
grace and dignity as I could muster. Thankfully, all
these concepts and philosophies are now shelved, to be
dusted off and used at the next oportunity, if there
is one with a similar time frame.
Contingency plans were made, in my own mind, as to
what to do in sequence if it came to that, who to go
visit, what sights to go see if there was time and
energy, whether to be buried or cremated, do I want to
be buried with my ancestors in the old world or with
my descendants in the new world, what should my
obituary say, what should my headstone say, stuff we
never have the opportunity to think of normally. One
has hours and hours to think such thoughts while
strapped to an IV tube during chemotherapy, comforted
only by those around you who somehow always seemed to
me to be worse off than I was.
In disclosing my situation to others I experienced
some of the ethos Roland speaks of albeit from a very
few older family members. I chose to tell those
closest to me by a carefully planned process, starting
with the parents and then going down the levels of
relatives by rank, i.e. Uncles and Aunts, siblings,
first cousins, etc. ending with close friends. Each
level was informed in sequence and at the same time so
that no one could complain about when they knew, and
everyone knew that the level above them had been told
before them. It was very important to me that
everyone be informed by me alone, in my own words,
whether it was face-to-face, or by phone or by email.
It was very important to me to tell the aging parents,
half way around the world, face-to-face, which
created logistical and timing issues as well.
Everyone else had to wait their turn.
The responses and their timing were fascinating. Some
relatives whom I had always thought cared little about
me were the first to call and commiserate. A few
relatives and close friends, whom I was very close to,
were not heard from until we met much later, and then
made sheepish excuses. I began to realize that it was
not that they cared for me any less, but that each one
was acting on deep psychological feelings about their
own mortality, which I had rudely reminded them of and
forced to confront. Not everyone is comfortable with
coming face to face with the mortality of someone
close to them, or their own.
One big change in my own psyche was that I used to be
uncomfortable facing those close to me who were very
ill or who I knew were dying. Now, I reach out to
them and spend time with them, if that is what they
want.
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this issue,
please feel free to email me with any questions or
comments.
Mervyn Lobo
2006-11-04 02:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
The minute we are born, we begin to die.
Mario,
I belong a different, a younger and perhaps a much
happier school. My 'appiness is based on the premise
that when we are born, we begin to live :-)
Post by Mario Goveia
The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
St. Peter is out fishing every day. However, people
are dying to get into heaven. So every morning he gets
to the gates, lets the good folks in and goes out
fishing.
Post by Mario Goveia
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this
issue, please feel free to email me with any
questions or comments.
Yep, I am going to send you a private message.
However, just in case you do not get it and are again
tripping and searching for my posts in the archives,
here is my question:
If you go before me, can you come back and whisper in
my ear the winning numbers of the Canadian 6/49 lotto?

I promise to do the same if I get to heaven before
you.

Mervyn Lobo




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Edward Verdes
2006-11-01 14:14:50 UTC
Permalink
(Although the debate is closed, I would request the Admin to allow me
to post this msg as this is related to goan cancer cases...tks..Edward)

The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.

In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
After several tests in both the hospitals, and in house consultations
with doctors, finally only the keens of both the patients were
informed of the Cancerous disease, and the time each had to live.
Both of them were advised immediate surgery.

The male's surgery was successful, but was advised to return
every 2-3 months to bombay for radiation or chemo therapy, or he could
do it in Goa. This patient however lived for a year and half but
had to go thru terrible times cause of the side effects of therapy.
The female died, 4 days after the surgery.

Back home, there was a rumor that the doctors killed the
female patient. This is not one case..there have been
many many cases like this and the blame is always put on
the doctors in Bombay Hospitals. I am not sure if the
journalist who died recently had also undergone treatment/surgery
in bombay, but I know of a two tiatrists who have passed away.

It is said that Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai is
one of the Best Cancer Hospitals in India/Asia.
During my several visits and stay with the patients in the
hosptial I came to know that there were few Goan doctors in the
Hospital, one of them was Dr. Venkatesh Hegde (from Margao) who at
that time was in the Children's ward. I have also noted that
Goan doctors in these hospitals are helpful to fellow goans.

Now my question is..are there any Hospitals in goa
which has good doctors for cancer surgery?
If so, then why do the local doctors not refer their
cancer patients to these doctors?
Secondly shouldn't the doctors in Goa inform their patients
about their sickness?

Dev borem korum
Edward Verdes
Post by Arnold Noronha
This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to
be
Post by Arnold Noronha
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle.
Alas,
Post by Arnold Noronha
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists
in
Post by Arnold Noronha
general.
Arnold
Mario Goveia
2006-11-03 16:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
DEATH AND DENIAL
Personally, I would have it no other way than be
told to me as soon as it is known. It is my life,
not someone else's and I should have the right to
tell anybody else in the manner and timing
that I decide upon, keeping in mind that I need to
arrange my affairs within the constraints that time
allows.
Mario adds:
This post reminded me of my own personal experience.
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Though I was never declared terminal, I was given a
50/50 chance of surviving for five years if my largely
experimental treatments didn't work.
I had always joked that the only good thing about
cancer is that it gives you the time to get your act
together, organize your affairs, and perhaps do some
things that you were previously unable or unwilling to
make the time for, before checking out.
Agonizing, as some do, as to why you were chosen to
bear this micro-cross is ludicrous, because there is
no real answer, it is a moot issue, and all that is
happening is that your cycle of life may be coming to
an end, as it was inevitably going to anyway.
The minute we are born, we begin to die. The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
Since I had already lived way beyond my warranty
period, had escaped death in actual and possible
accidents at least 5 times previously, and had seen
younger friends and relatives die "prematurely", I
figured I had little to complain about. From them I
had learned how to face death, accept it as
inevitable, yet fight it with every fiber of my being
right down into the ground, and do so with as much
grace and dignity as I could muster. Thankfully, all
these concepts and philosophies are now shelved, to be
dusted off and used at the next oportunity, if there
is one with a similar time frame.
Contingency plans were made, in my own mind, as to
what to do in sequence if it came to that, who to go
visit, what sights to go see if there was time and
energy, whether to be buried or cremated, do I want to
be buried with my ancestors in the old world or with
my descendants in the new world, what should my
obituary say, what should my headstone say, stuff we
never have the opportunity to think of normally. One
has hours and hours to think such thoughts while
strapped to an IV tube during chemotherapy, comforted
only by those around you who somehow always seemed to
me to be worse off than I was.
In disclosing my situation to others I experienced
some of the ethos Roland speaks of albeit from a very
few older family members. I chose to tell those
closest to me by a carefully planned process, starting
with the parents and then going down the levels of
relatives by rank, i.e. Uncles and Aunts, siblings,
first cousins, etc. ending with close friends. Each
level was informed in sequence and at the same time so
that no one could complain about when they knew, and
everyone knew that the level above them had been told
before them. It was very important to me that
everyone be informed by me alone, in my own words,
whether it was face-to-face, or by phone or by email.
It was very important to me to tell the aging parents,
half way around the world, face-to-face, which
created logistical and timing issues as well.
Everyone else had to wait their turn.
The responses and their timing were fascinating. Some
relatives whom I had always thought cared little about
me were the first to call and commiserate. A few
relatives and close friends, whom I was very close to,
were not heard from until we met much later, and then
made sheepish excuses. I began to realize that it was
not that they cared for me any less, but that each one
was acting on deep psychological feelings about their
own mortality, which I had rudely reminded them of and
forced to confront. Not everyone is comfortable with
coming face to face with the mortality of someone
close to them, or their own.
One big change in my own psyche was that I used to be
uncomfortable facing those close to me who were very
ill or who I knew were dying. Now, I reach out to
them and spend time with them, if that is what they
want.
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this issue,
please feel free to email me with any questions or
comments.
Mervyn Lobo
2006-11-04 02:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
The minute we are born, we begin to die.
Mario,
I belong a different, a younger and perhaps a much
happier school. My 'appiness is based on the premise
that when we are born, we begin to live :-)
Post by Mario Goveia
The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
St. Peter is out fishing every day. However, people
are dying to get into heaven. So every morning he gets
to the gates, lets the good folks in and goes out
fishing.
Post by Mario Goveia
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this
issue, please feel free to email me with any
questions or comments.
Yep, I am going to send you a private message.
However, just in case you do not get it and are again
tripping and searching for my posts in the archives,
here is my question:
If you go before me, can you come back and whisper in
my ear the winning numbers of the Canadian 6/49 lotto?

I promise to do the same if I get to heaven before
you.

Mervyn Lobo




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Edward Verdes
2006-11-01 14:14:50 UTC
Permalink
(Although the debate is closed, I would request the Admin to allow me
to post this msg as this is related to goan cancer cases...tks..Edward)

The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.

In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
After several tests in both the hospitals, and in house consultations
with doctors, finally only the keens of both the patients were
informed of the Cancerous disease, and the time each had to live.
Both of them were advised immediate surgery.

The male's surgery was successful, but was advised to return
every 2-3 months to bombay for radiation or chemo therapy, or he could
do it in Goa. This patient however lived for a year and half but
had to go thru terrible times cause of the side effects of therapy.
The female died, 4 days after the surgery.

Back home, there was a rumor that the doctors killed the
female patient. This is not one case..there have been
many many cases like this and the blame is always put on
the doctors in Bombay Hospitals. I am not sure if the
journalist who died recently had also undergone treatment/surgery
in bombay, but I know of a two tiatrists who have passed away.

It is said that Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai is
one of the Best Cancer Hospitals in India/Asia.
During my several visits and stay with the patients in the
hosptial I came to know that there were few Goan doctors in the
Hospital, one of them was Dr. Venkatesh Hegde (from Margao) who at
that time was in the Children's ward. I have also noted that
Goan doctors in these hospitals are helpful to fellow goans.

Now my question is..are there any Hospitals in goa
which has good doctors for cancer surgery?
If so, then why do the local doctors not refer their
cancer patients to these doctors?
Secondly shouldn't the doctors in Goa inform their patients
about their sickness?

Dev borem korum
Edward Verdes
Post by Arnold Noronha
This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to
be
Post by Arnold Noronha
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle.
Alas,
Post by Arnold Noronha
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists
in
Post by Arnold Noronha
general.
Arnold
Mario Goveia
2006-11-03 16:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
DEATH AND DENIAL
Personally, I would have it no other way than be
told to me as soon as it is known. It is my life,
not someone else's and I should have the right to
tell anybody else in the manner and timing
that I decide upon, keeping in mind that I need to
arrange my affairs within the constraints that time
allows.
Mario adds:
This post reminded me of my own personal experience.
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Though I was never declared terminal, I was given a
50/50 chance of surviving for five years if my largely
experimental treatments didn't work.
I had always joked that the only good thing about
cancer is that it gives you the time to get your act
together, organize your affairs, and perhaps do some
things that you were previously unable or unwilling to
make the time for, before checking out.
Agonizing, as some do, as to why you were chosen to
bear this micro-cross is ludicrous, because there is
no real answer, it is a moot issue, and all that is
happening is that your cycle of life may be coming to
an end, as it was inevitably going to anyway.
The minute we are born, we begin to die. The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
Since I had already lived way beyond my warranty
period, had escaped death in actual and possible
accidents at least 5 times previously, and had seen
younger friends and relatives die "prematurely", I
figured I had little to complain about. From them I
had learned how to face death, accept it as
inevitable, yet fight it with every fiber of my being
right down into the ground, and do so with as much
grace and dignity as I could muster. Thankfully, all
these concepts and philosophies are now shelved, to be
dusted off and used at the next oportunity, if there
is one with a similar time frame.
Contingency plans were made, in my own mind, as to
what to do in sequence if it came to that, who to go
visit, what sights to go see if there was time and
energy, whether to be buried or cremated, do I want to
be buried with my ancestors in the old world or with
my descendants in the new world, what should my
obituary say, what should my headstone say, stuff we
never have the opportunity to think of normally. One
has hours and hours to think such thoughts while
strapped to an IV tube during chemotherapy, comforted
only by those around you who somehow always seemed to
me to be worse off than I was.
In disclosing my situation to others I experienced
some of the ethos Roland speaks of albeit from a very
few older family members. I chose to tell those
closest to me by a carefully planned process, starting
with the parents and then going down the levels of
relatives by rank, i.e. Uncles and Aunts, siblings,
first cousins, etc. ending with close friends. Each
level was informed in sequence and at the same time so
that no one could complain about when they knew, and
everyone knew that the level above them had been told
before them. It was very important to me that
everyone be informed by me alone, in my own words,
whether it was face-to-face, or by phone or by email.
It was very important to me to tell the aging parents,
half way around the world, face-to-face, which
created logistical and timing issues as well.
Everyone else had to wait their turn.
The responses and their timing were fascinating. Some
relatives whom I had always thought cared little about
me were the first to call and commiserate. A few
relatives and close friends, whom I was very close to,
were not heard from until we met much later, and then
made sheepish excuses. I began to realize that it was
not that they cared for me any less, but that each one
was acting on deep psychological feelings about their
own mortality, which I had rudely reminded them of and
forced to confront. Not everyone is comfortable with
coming face to face with the mortality of someone
close to them, or their own.
One big change in my own psyche was that I used to be
uncomfortable facing those close to me who were very
ill or who I knew were dying. Now, I reach out to
them and spend time with them, if that is what they
want.
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this issue,
please feel free to email me with any questions or
comments.
Mervyn Lobo
2006-11-04 02:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
The minute we are born, we begin to die.
Mario,
I belong a different, a younger and perhaps a much
happier school. My 'appiness is based on the premise
that when we are born, we begin to live :-)
Post by Mario Goveia
The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
St. Peter is out fishing every day. However, people
are dying to get into heaven. So every morning he gets
to the gates, lets the good folks in and goes out
fishing.
Post by Mario Goveia
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this
issue, please feel free to email me with any
questions or comments.
Yep, I am going to send you a private message.
However, just in case you do not get it and are again
tripping and searching for my posts in the archives,
here is my question:
If you go before me, can you come back and whisper in
my ear the winning numbers of the Canadian 6/49 lotto?

I promise to do the same if I get to heaven before
you.

Mervyn Lobo




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Edward Verdes
2006-11-01 14:14:50 UTC
Permalink
(Although the debate is closed, I would request the Admin to allow me
to post this msg as this is related to goan cancer cases...tks..Edward)

The grandmothers kanneos are to be believed or not...but the fact
remains that many Goans, who come to Bombay for Cancer treatment,
are no more.

In the 80's/90's I was there to help two cheerful goans (not related to me)
who came to Bombay for treatment. Athough the doctors in Goa, who
were treating them knew their cases, they did not inform both the patients.
One male was refered to Bombay Hospital and the other a female
was asked to refer Tata Hospital. On seeing the ref letter to Tata
Hospital, we came to know that it was the case of Cancer.
After several tests in both the hospitals, and in house consultations
with doctors, finally only the keens of both the patients were
informed of the Cancerous disease, and the time each had to live.
Both of them were advised immediate surgery.

The male's surgery was successful, but was advised to return
every 2-3 months to bombay for radiation or chemo therapy, or he could
do it in Goa. This patient however lived for a year and half but
had to go thru terrible times cause of the side effects of therapy.
The female died, 4 days after the surgery.

Back home, there was a rumor that the doctors killed the
female patient. This is not one case..there have been
many many cases like this and the blame is always put on
the doctors in Bombay Hospitals. I am not sure if the
journalist who died recently had also undergone treatment/surgery
in bombay, but I know of a two tiatrists who have passed away.

It is said that Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai is
one of the Best Cancer Hospitals in India/Asia.
During my several visits and stay with the patients in the
hosptial I came to know that there were few Goan doctors in the
Hospital, one of them was Dr. Venkatesh Hegde (from Margao) who at
that time was in the Children's ward. I have also noted that
Goan doctors in these hospitals are helpful to fellow goans.

Now my question is..are there any Hospitals in goa
which has good doctors for cancer surgery?
If so, then why do the local doctors not refer their
cancer patients to these doctors?
Secondly shouldn't the doctors in Goa inform their patients
about their sickness?

Dev borem korum
Edward Verdes
Post by Arnold Noronha
This situation has left lay people following this debate in
confusion worse confounded. We, the nonscientific readership, seem to
be
Post by Arnold Noronha
learning more about one-upmanship than oncology in this epic battle.
Alas,
Post by Arnold Noronha
this debate is giving umbrage to the hitherto high esteem of scientists
in
Post by Arnold Noronha
general.
Arnold
Mario Goveia
2006-11-03 16:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
DEATH AND DENIAL
Personally, I would have it no other way than be
told to me as soon as it is known. It is my life,
not someone else's and I should have the right to
tell anybody else in the manner and timing
that I decide upon, keeping in mind that I need to
arrange my affairs within the constraints that time
allows.
Mario adds:
This post reminded me of my own personal experience.
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Though I was never declared terminal, I was given a
50/50 chance of surviving for five years if my largely
experimental treatments didn't work.
I had always joked that the only good thing about
cancer is that it gives you the time to get your act
together, organize your affairs, and perhaps do some
things that you were previously unable or unwilling to
make the time for, before checking out.
Agonizing, as some do, as to why you were chosen to
bear this micro-cross is ludicrous, because there is
no real answer, it is a moot issue, and all that is
happening is that your cycle of life may be coming to
an end, as it was inevitably going to anyway.
The minute we are born, we begin to die. The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
Since I had already lived way beyond my warranty
period, had escaped death in actual and possible
accidents at least 5 times previously, and had seen
younger friends and relatives die "prematurely", I
figured I had little to complain about. From them I
had learned how to face death, accept it as
inevitable, yet fight it with every fiber of my being
right down into the ground, and do so with as much
grace and dignity as I could muster. Thankfully, all
these concepts and philosophies are now shelved, to be
dusted off and used at the next oportunity, if there
is one with a similar time frame.
Contingency plans were made, in my own mind, as to
what to do in sequence if it came to that, who to go
visit, what sights to go see if there was time and
energy, whether to be buried or cremated, do I want to
be buried with my ancestors in the old world or with
my descendants in the new world, what should my
obituary say, what should my headstone say, stuff we
never have the opportunity to think of normally. One
has hours and hours to think such thoughts while
strapped to an IV tube during chemotherapy, comforted
only by those around you who somehow always seemed to
me to be worse off than I was.
In disclosing my situation to others I experienced
some of the ethos Roland speaks of albeit from a very
few older family members. I chose to tell those
closest to me by a carefully planned process, starting
with the parents and then going down the levels of
relatives by rank, i.e. Uncles and Aunts, siblings,
first cousins, etc. ending with close friends. Each
level was informed in sequence and at the same time so
that no one could complain about when they knew, and
everyone knew that the level above them had been told
before them. It was very important to me that
everyone be informed by me alone, in my own words,
whether it was face-to-face, or by phone or by email.
It was very important to me to tell the aging parents,
half way around the world, face-to-face, which
created logistical and timing issues as well.
Everyone else had to wait their turn.
The responses and their timing were fascinating. Some
relatives whom I had always thought cared little about
me were the first to call and commiserate. A few
relatives and close friends, whom I was very close to,
were not heard from until we met much later, and then
made sheepish excuses. I began to realize that it was
not that they cared for me any less, but that each one
was acting on deep psychological feelings about their
own mortality, which I had rudely reminded them of and
forced to confront. Not everyone is comfortable with
coming face to face with the mortality of someone
close to them, or their own.
One big change in my own psyche was that I used to be
uncomfortable facing those close to me who were very
ill or who I knew were dying. Now, I reach out to
them and spend time with them, if that is what they
want.
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this issue,
please feel free to email me with any questions or
comments.
Mervyn Lobo
2006-11-04 02:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
The minute we are born, we begin to die.
Mario,
I belong a different, a younger and perhaps a much
happier school. My 'appiness is based on the premise
that when we are born, we begin to live :-)
Post by Mario Goveia
The only
question is how and when. I imagined St. Peter
perusing a computer printout every morning of "new
guests" for the day. If your name isn't on it, he
will not let you in, no matter what. If it is, it's
"Hasta la vista, baby!" - no matter what.
St. Peter is out fishing every day. However, people
are dying to get into heaven. So every morning he gets
to the gates, lets the good folks in and goes out
fishing.
Post by Mario Goveia
If there is anyone in this forum who prefers to
contact me privately and confidentially on this
issue, please feel free to email me with any
questions or comments.
Yep, I am going to send you a private message.
However, just in case you do not get it and are again
tripping and searching for my posts in the archives,
here is my question:
If you go before me, can you come back and whisper in
my ear the winning numbers of the Canadian 6/49 lotto?

I promise to do the same if I get to heaven before
you.

Mervyn Lobo




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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[Goanet] Another Kaneo .. or is it .. Hot Air?
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