Discussion:
[Goanet] Goanet as learning instrument
Radhakrishnan Nair
2006-07-13 04:02:25 UTC
Permalink
(Valmiki Faleiro: I am also - just btw, again - an admirer of the Mossad's
achievements ... particularly the episodes about the most
advanced Soviet-supplied radar installed by Egypt in the Sinai
(which put the entire of Israel under enemy scanner) prior to
the Yom Kippur war, and the raid on PLO HQ in a Beirut
highrise.)

Don't you remember the Entebe operation, Val? It involved an Israeli passenger
plane hijacked by Muslim extremists during Idi Amin's regime.
-- RKN
Valmiki Faleiro
2006-07-13 08:25:17 UTC
Permalink
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: /pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/attachments/20060713/f25d2517/attachment.ksh
Valmiki Faleiro
2006-07-13 16:26:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi RKN,

Who can forget Entebbe? The way they trained and rehearsed
in a matter of three days, skimmed across Lake Victoria and
staged that daring operation -- complete with a lookalike of
Idi Amin in his usual car, even if a "friendly" neighbouring
African nation refused them refuelling on the return? A book
and a film have recorded that story. (The hijacked plane,
btw, was not an El Al liner, it was an Air France liner on a
scheduled flight.) Point is, it was intelligence again that
came to Israel's rescue. They had the complete blueprints of
the Entebbe terminal building, made cardboard lifesize models
for their rehearsals and even had plans for various contigencies
(like dispersal of passengers in different areas inside the
terminal) in place, prior to embarking on that mission.
Intelligence plays the major role. A brains versus brawn point.

But the Sinai radar and PLO HQ storming, which occured much
before, had their own brilliance. (Both were staged,
incidentally, by the Mossad.) I'll briefly explain.

I'll condense only one. The Soviets supplied their latest,
most sophisticated radar systems to the Egyptians. It was
installed on the Sinai Peninsula. The radar brought all of
Israel under enemy eye -- even a helicopter could not take
off even from the northernmost tip of Israel without the
enemy's knowledge. The Israelis were alarmed. The Israeli PM
called a meeting of the defence chiefs and the Mossad. Each
one presented his plan on to deal with the situation. The army
guy (I think the Yom Kippur hero, Gen. Moshe Dayan, was still
the Dy Chief of Army staff then) unfolded his plan to destroy
the radar. The chief of the Air Force told how he would
carpet bomb the entire camp, including the Soviet radar.

Then came the turn of the Mossad chief. He begged of the PM to
allot the assignment to him. "We will NOT destroy that radar,"
he pleaded, "we will bring it back to Israel."

They did just that. Together with requisite help from
the other services, a small helicopter-borne commando unit took
the relaxing Egyptian guards by complete surprise, dismantled
the radar system and brought it back home ... piece by piece!

(It was later re-assembled and studied in detail by Israeli and
western techies, in Israel, to Russia's chagrin. The Soviets
changed their arms policy: never again did a first-generation
piece of defence equipment leave their shores.)

Regards, Valmiki
P.S.: If you read my piece that appeared in today's
(Goa) Herald, also posted here earlier, on the Mumbai
serial blasts, you know better how I regard the Mossad ;-)


On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 Radhakrishnan Nair wrote :
--
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
(Valmiki Faleiro: I am also - just btw, again - an admirer of the
Mossad's >achievements ... particularly the episodes about the
most >advanced Soviet-supplied radar installed by Egypt in the Sinai
(which put the entire of Israel under enemy scanner) prior to
the Yom Kippur war, and the raid on PLO HQ in a Beirut
highrise.)
Don't you remember the Entebe operation, Val? It involved an
Israeli passenger
plane hijacked by Muslim extremists during Idi Amin's regime.
-- RKN
_______________________________________________
Goanet mailing list
Goanet at lists.goanet.org
cornel
2006-07-14 08:12:39 UTC
Permalink
Who can forget Entebbe?
Israel's justified daring attack against a tin-pot dictator and buffoon like
Idi Amin is not surprising in many respects. Here was an advanced military
nation, with strong American support, taking on a fifth rate military
outpost like Amin's at the time. Moreover, Entebbe airport, which I knew
well, was not exactly the Pentagon--it was virtually an open field with a
few scattered cheaply built structures on it, at the time of the Raid, even
thought the subsequent film had many embellishments to make it a Hollywood
block buster.

Notwithstanding the above, Valmiki is right that Israel had a major
'intelligence' coup on this issue. However, in contrast, its unjustified
collusion in 1956, with Britain and France, to the acute chagrin of the USA,
brought its "quick victory" instincts in Suez to an immediate and abrupt
end.

Israel has had many successes on the war-front especially with Big Brother,
the USA invariably providing it uncritical support on its many
disproportionate military attacks as now. It has an absolute right to exist,
ideally in a two-state solution, but it only needs to fail once to see its
virtual destruction by its many ferocious enemies who are unlikely to forget
its consistent efforts and determination to occupy Arab lands
illegitimately. Its survival, according to many Israelis themselves, in and
outside the country, is based on massive force for now, and the suppression
of many Middle Eastern peoples. Historical evidence suggests that, with all
their 'intelligence' they will never be able to destroy the idea and
reality that much of Palestine is occupied illegally and colonised under the
pretence of security.
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valmiki Faleiro" <valmikif at gmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet as learning instrument
Post by Valmiki Faleiro
Hi RKN,
Who can forget Entebbe? The way they trained and rehearsed in a matter of
three days, skimmed across Lake Victoria and staged that daring
operation -- complete with a lookalike of
Idi Amin in his usual car, even if a "friendly" neighbouring African
nation refused them refuelling on the return? A book
and a film have recorded that story. (The hijacked plane, btw, was not an
El Al liner, it was an Air France liner on a scheduled flight.) Point is,
it was intelligence again that came to Israel's rescue. They had the
complete blueprints of the Entebbe terminal building, made cardboard
lifesize models for their rehearsals and even had plans for various
contigencies (like dispersal of passengers in different areas inside the
terminal) in place, prior to embarking on that mission. Intelligence plays
the major role. A brains versus brawn point.
But the Sinai radar and PLO HQ storming, which occured much before, had
their own brilliance. (Both were staged, incidentally, by the Mossad.)
I'll briefly explain.
I'll condense only one. The Soviets supplied their latest, most
sophisticated radar systems to the Egyptians. It was installed on the
Sinai Peninsula. The radar brought all of Israel under enemy eye -- even
a helicopter could not take off even from the northernmost tip of Israel
without the enemy's knowledge. The Israelis were alarmed. The Israeli PM
called a meeting of the defence chiefs and the Mossad. Each one presented
his plan on to deal with the situation. The army
guy (I think the Yom Kippur hero, Gen. Moshe Dayan, was still the Dy Chief
of Army staff then) unfolded his plan to destroy the radar. The chief of
the Air Force told how he would carpet bomb the entire camp, including the
Soviet radar.
Then came the turn of the Mossad chief. He begged of the PM to allot the
assignment to him. "We will NOT destroy that radar," he pleaded, "we will
bring it back to Israel."
They did just that. Together with requisite help from the other services,
a small helicopter-borne commando unit took the relaxing Egyptian guards
by complete surprise, dismantled the radar system and brought it back home
... piece by piece!
(It was later re-assembled and studied in detail by Israeli and western
techies, in Israel, to Russia's chagrin. The Soviets changed their arms
policy: never again did a first-generation piece of defence equipment
leave their shores.)
Regards, Valmiki
P.S.: If you read my piece that appeared in today's (Goa) Herald, also
posted here earlier, on the Mumbai serial blasts, you know better how I
regard the Mossad ;-)
--
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
(Valmiki Faleiro: I am also - just btw, again - an admirer of the
Mossad's >achievements ... particularly the episodes about the
most >advanced Soviet-supplied radar installed by Egypt in the Sinai
(which put the entire of Israel under enemy scanner) prior to the Yom
Kippur war, and the raid on PLO HQ in a Beirut highrise.)
Don't you remember the Entebe operation, Val? It involved an Israeli
passenger plane hijacked by Muslim extremists during Idi Amin's regime.
-- RKN
cornel
2006-07-14 08:12:39 UTC
Permalink
Who can forget Entebbe?
Israel's justified daring attack against a tin-pot dictator and buffoon like
Idi Amin is not surprising in many respects. Here was an advanced military
nation, with strong American support, taking on a fifth rate military
outpost like Amin's at the time. Moreover, Entebbe airport, which I knew
well, was not exactly the Pentagon--it was virtually an open field with a
few scattered cheaply built structures on it, at the time of the Raid, even
thought the subsequent film had many embellishments to make it a Hollywood
block buster.

Notwithstanding the above, Valmiki is right that Israel had a major
'intelligence' coup on this issue. However, in contrast, its unjustified
collusion in 1956, with Britain and France, to the acute chagrin of the USA,
brought its "quick victory" instincts in Suez to an immediate and abrupt
end.

Israel has had many successes on the war-front especially with Big Brother,
the USA invariably providing it uncritical support on its many
disproportionate military attacks as now. It has an absolute right to exist,
ideally in a two-state solution, but it only needs to fail once to see its
virtual destruction by its many ferocious enemies who are unlikely to forget
its consistent efforts and determination to occupy Arab lands
illegitimately. Its survival, according to many Israelis themselves, in and
outside the country, is based on massive force for now, and the suppression
of many Middle Eastern peoples. Historical evidence suggests that, with all
their 'intelligence' they will never be able to destroy the idea and
reality that much of Palestine is occupied illegally and colonised under the
pretence of security.
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valmiki Faleiro" <valmikif at gmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet as learning instrument
Post by Valmiki Faleiro
Hi RKN,
Who can forget Entebbe? The way they trained and rehearsed in a matter of
three days, skimmed across Lake Victoria and staged that daring
operation -- complete with a lookalike of
Idi Amin in his usual car, even if a "friendly" neighbouring African
nation refused them refuelling on the return? A book
and a film have recorded that story. (The hijacked plane, btw, was not an
El Al liner, it was an Air France liner on a scheduled flight.) Point is,
it was intelligence again that came to Israel's rescue. They had the
complete blueprints of the Entebbe terminal building, made cardboard
lifesize models for their rehearsals and even had plans for various
contigencies (like dispersal of passengers in different areas inside the
terminal) in place, prior to embarking on that mission. Intelligence plays
the major role. A brains versus brawn point.
But the Sinai radar and PLO HQ storming, which occured much before, had
their own brilliance. (Both were staged, incidentally, by the Mossad.)
I'll briefly explain.
I'll condense only one. The Soviets supplied their latest, most
sophisticated radar systems to the Egyptians. It was installed on the
Sinai Peninsula. The radar brought all of Israel under enemy eye -- even
a helicopter could not take off even from the northernmost tip of Israel
without the enemy's knowledge. The Israelis were alarmed. The Israeli PM
called a meeting of the defence chiefs and the Mossad. Each one presented
his plan on to deal with the situation. The army
guy (I think the Yom Kippur hero, Gen. Moshe Dayan, was still the Dy Chief
of Army staff then) unfolded his plan to destroy the radar. The chief of
the Air Force told how he would carpet bomb the entire camp, including the
Soviet radar.
Then came the turn of the Mossad chief. He begged of the PM to allot the
assignment to him. "We will NOT destroy that radar," he pleaded, "we will
bring it back to Israel."
They did just that. Together with requisite help from the other services,
a small helicopter-borne commando unit took the relaxing Egyptian guards
by complete surprise, dismantled the radar system and brought it back home
... piece by piece!
(It was later re-assembled and studied in detail by Israeli and western
techies, in Israel, to Russia's chagrin. The Soviets changed their arms
policy: never again did a first-generation piece of defence equipment
leave their shores.)
Regards, Valmiki
P.S.: If you read my piece that appeared in today's (Goa) Herald, also
posted here earlier, on the Mumbai serial blasts, you know better how I
regard the Mossad ;-)
--
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
(Valmiki Faleiro: I am also - just btw, again - an admirer of the
Mossad's >achievements ... particularly the episodes about the
most >advanced Soviet-supplied radar installed by Egypt in the Sinai
(which put the entire of Israel under enemy scanner) prior to the Yom
Kippur war, and the raid on PLO HQ in a Beirut highrise.)
Don't you remember the Entebe operation, Val? It involved an Israeli
passenger plane hijacked by Muslim extremists during Idi Amin's regime.
-- RKN
cornel
2006-07-14 08:12:39 UTC
Permalink
Who can forget Entebbe?
Israel's justified daring attack against a tin-pot dictator and buffoon like
Idi Amin is not surprising in many respects. Here was an advanced military
nation, with strong American support, taking on a fifth rate military
outpost like Amin's at the time. Moreover, Entebbe airport, which I knew
well, was not exactly the Pentagon--it was virtually an open field with a
few scattered cheaply built structures on it, at the time of the Raid, even
thought the subsequent film had many embellishments to make it a Hollywood
block buster.

Notwithstanding the above, Valmiki is right that Israel had a major
'intelligence' coup on this issue. However, in contrast, its unjustified
collusion in 1956, with Britain and France, to the acute chagrin of the USA,
brought its "quick victory" instincts in Suez to an immediate and abrupt
end.

Israel has had many successes on the war-front especially with Big Brother,
the USA invariably providing it uncritical support on its many
disproportionate military attacks as now. It has an absolute right to exist,
ideally in a two-state solution, but it only needs to fail once to see its
virtual destruction by its many ferocious enemies who are unlikely to forget
its consistent efforts and determination to occupy Arab lands
illegitimately. Its survival, according to many Israelis themselves, in and
outside the country, is based on massive force for now, and the suppression
of many Middle Eastern peoples. Historical evidence suggests that, with all
their 'intelligence' they will never be able to destroy the idea and
reality that much of Palestine is occupied illegally and colonised under the
pretence of security.
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valmiki Faleiro" <valmikif at gmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet as learning instrument
Post by Valmiki Faleiro
Hi RKN,
Who can forget Entebbe? The way they trained and rehearsed in a matter of
three days, skimmed across Lake Victoria and staged that daring
operation -- complete with a lookalike of
Idi Amin in his usual car, even if a "friendly" neighbouring African
nation refused them refuelling on the return? A book
and a film have recorded that story. (The hijacked plane, btw, was not an
El Al liner, it was an Air France liner on a scheduled flight.) Point is,
it was intelligence again that came to Israel's rescue. They had the
complete blueprints of the Entebbe terminal building, made cardboard
lifesize models for their rehearsals and even had plans for various
contigencies (like dispersal of passengers in different areas inside the
terminal) in place, prior to embarking on that mission. Intelligence plays
the major role. A brains versus brawn point.
But the Sinai radar and PLO HQ storming, which occured much before, had
their own brilliance. (Both were staged, incidentally, by the Mossad.)
I'll briefly explain.
I'll condense only one. The Soviets supplied their latest, most
sophisticated radar systems to the Egyptians. It was installed on the
Sinai Peninsula. The radar brought all of Israel under enemy eye -- even
a helicopter could not take off even from the northernmost tip of Israel
without the enemy's knowledge. The Israelis were alarmed. The Israeli PM
called a meeting of the defence chiefs and the Mossad. Each one presented
his plan on to deal with the situation. The army
guy (I think the Yom Kippur hero, Gen. Moshe Dayan, was still the Dy Chief
of Army staff then) unfolded his plan to destroy the radar. The chief of
the Air Force told how he would carpet bomb the entire camp, including the
Soviet radar.
Then came the turn of the Mossad chief. He begged of the PM to allot the
assignment to him. "We will NOT destroy that radar," he pleaded, "we will
bring it back to Israel."
They did just that. Together with requisite help from the other services,
a small helicopter-borne commando unit took the relaxing Egyptian guards
by complete surprise, dismantled the radar system and brought it back home
... piece by piece!
(It was later re-assembled and studied in detail by Israeli and western
techies, in Israel, to Russia's chagrin. The Soviets changed their arms
policy: never again did a first-generation piece of defence equipment
leave their shores.)
Regards, Valmiki
P.S.: If you read my piece that appeared in today's (Goa) Herald, also
posted here earlier, on the Mumbai serial blasts, you know better how I
regard the Mossad ;-)
--
Post by Radhakrishnan Nair
(Valmiki Faleiro: I am also - just btw, again - an admirer of the
Mossad's >achievements ... particularly the episodes about the
most >advanced Soviet-supplied radar installed by Egypt in the Sinai
(which put the entire of Israel under enemy scanner) prior to the Yom
Kippur war, and the raid on PLO HQ in a Beirut highrise.)
Don't you remember the Entebe operation, Val? It involved an Israeli
passenger plane hijacked by Muslim extremists during Idi Amin's regime.
-- RKN
Elisabeth Carvalho
2006-07-14 14:05:10 UTC
Permalink
Dear Cornel,
I have much respect and sympathy for the Jews, for
their enormous contribution to society and their
perseverance through all they've had to endure in
history. However when they had an opportunity to make
right the wrongs of history, they've proven that they
are equally if not more brutal. Palestinian refugee
camps are nothing more than concentration camps.

That Israel occupies this territory out of European
guilt is without doubt. That Britain played the Arabs
dirty is without doubt. I wonder how many people know
that before Europe found " firm historical and
Biblical" evidence that, that patch of land was
"chosen" for Jews, that they were seriously
considering Uganda as a site for settlement (albeit
temporary at the time), which was known as the Uganda
project. When Herzl's project was disregarded by
Britain, other possible sites were Canada or Australia
for settlement. But for a quirk of fate, the Jews
would have been fighting the Ugandans or Canadians or
Aborigines and that too would have been justified as
"right to defend" by America.

Elisabeth
--------------------------------
Post by cornel
Israel has had many successes on the war-front
especially with Big Brother,
the USA invariably providing it uncritical support
on its many
disproportionate military attacks as now. It has an
absolute right to exist,
ideally in a two-state solution, but it only needs
to fail once to see its
virtual destruction by its many ferocious enemies
who are unlikely to forget
its consistent efforts and determination to occupy
Arab lands
illegitimately. Its survival, according to many
Israelis themselves, in and
outside the country, is based on massive force for
now, and the suppression
of many Middle Eastern peoples. Historical evidence
suggests that, with all
their 'intelligence' they will never be able to
destroy the idea and
reality that much of Palestine is occupied illegally
and colonised under the
pretence of security.
Cornel
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
cornel
2006-07-15 09:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Elizabeth
You are absolutely spot on re the creation and positioning of Israel.
Thanks.
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elisabeth Carvalho" <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Cc: <cornel at btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goanet as learning instrument (re Israel) response to
Cornel
Post by Elisabeth Carvalho
Dear Cornel,
I have much respect and sympathy for the Jews, for
their enormous contribution to society and their
perseverance through all they've had to endure in
history. However when they had an opportunity to make
right the wrongs of history, they've proven that they
are equally if not more brutal. Palestinian refugee
camps are nothing more than concentration camps.
That Israel occupies this territory out of European
guilt is without doubt. That Britain played the Arabs
dirty is without doubt. I wonder how many people know
that before Europe found " firm historical and
Biblical" evidence that, that patch of land was