Discussion:
"Goa has become a Toilet"
(too old to reply)
Eddie Fernandes
2008-05-13 19:53:43 UTC
Permalink
13 May: British Expats Goa Forum. To the Goa State Government: Please allow
me to sell my property . There is no longer any binding reason why I should
wish to continue to struggle to stay in your increasingly filthy and
dangerous self deluded "paradise" at the mercy of your degenerate
politicians, puppet judiciary, corrupt bureaucracy, mafia style police,
cheating and inept populace.
Full text, 2209 words + discussion at
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536195

My personal view regarding the expat property issue:

Eight years ago my neighbours in London asked if they could accompany us on
holiday to Goa because of our rapturous description of the place. Of course
we agreed. They were delighted with Goa and we encouraged to buy a holiday
residence there, going through all the legal channels. They immersed
themselves in Goa and set up a registered charity in the UK to help children
in Goa. They spend much of their time and money on the project.

Is it illogical to buy property on a tourist visa? Are Indian citizens not
doing the same in the UK? If multiculturalism is good for the UK, what
makes it so evil for Goa? Are the typical British retirees in Goa not
sympathetically restoring heritage properties, putting money in the local
economy and supporting local charities?

I feel guilty at having encouraged my friends to have a foothold in Goa.
Today the properties of Foreign Nationals are threatened. Tomorrow it will
be the turn of the NRIs who have foreign passports.

Eddie Fernandes
http://www.goanvoice.org.uk/
rajadhyaksha
2008-05-14 03:04:20 UTC
Permalink
I agree with the argument of the poster here, FN's should be allowed to
sell their properties and move on. Many of them, bought these places
because of wrong advice of friends, developers and advocates, who did
not have proper understanding the FEMA rules.

No point in closing register books or confiscating properties - just
sell the properties in open market. Many of them, will get a really good
ROI, compared to investments in UK or US.
Eddie Fernandes
2008-05-14 11:23:20 UTC
Permalink
"Confiscate properties of UK Goans and deport them"

Source: Herald 14 May 2008 at
http://oheraldo.in/pagedetails.asp?nid=3950&cid=13
By Michelle Savage, UK

Full text:

Eight years ago, my husband and I decided that we no longer wanted to deal
with the stress of working in high pressure jobs. Our children were all
married and half of them had moved abroad. We looked around and decided to
move to Goa.

We approached a reputed builder and local advocate, who all told us we were
safe to buy property in Goa. To be on the safe side, we asked the advocate
to confirm through the Reserve Bank (RBI) that any purchase made by us was
legal. We received a letter from the RBI advising that there would be no
objection, providing we complied with FEMA. We still have this letter.

As we are not great lovers of modern architecture, we purchased an old
Portuguese house with a nice-sized garden. All the paperwork was completed
and we took possession of the property. Renovating the property and grounds
was expensive; in all honesty it would have been cheaper to build a new
house. But we were happy that it was our last house and we would make it
just as we wanted.

For several years we were very happy in Goa. Then all of sudden we are being
treated quite disgracefully. The press runs daily horror stories of how Goa
doesn't want people like us. We originally came on a 5 year X Visa. Then we
were told we no longer qualify for these visas, and can only have a
six-month tourist visa.

Now MLAs are openly saying that properties purchased by foreigners will be
confiscated and auctioned. We sadly decided to leave Goa, but were informed
that we could not sell our property. Our builder, who has enjoyed our
patronage for years, has said that he will deal with all the paperwork if we
sell the house to him for the initial purchase price (excluding what we paid
him). My husband has become quite ill from all the stress, and we are now
back in the UK so that he can be treated for the illness this has brought
on.

While we are here, I will asking the UK government to put in place a
reciprocal arrangement whereby properties of Goan settlers in the UK are
confiscated and the country's 60,000 Goan immigrants are forced to return to
India. We want to say that we wished we had never heard of Goa and had never
visited India. The whole experience makes me want to constantly cry, and I
have been prescribed anti-depressants, something that never happened in the
past. I would make a sincere plea to the authorities in Goa. We haven't done
anything wrong. Let us sell our legally purchased property and we guarantee
we will come back again.

Forwarded by Eddie Fernandes
http://www.goanvoice.org.uk/

-----Original Message-----
"Goa has become a Toilet"
13 May: British Expats Goa Forum.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536195
gwasha
2008-05-15 12:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Eddie
This article by the so called foreigners, ( I would call them willing Goans)
to our politicians they are foreignor, NO Votes so call them alliens,
The concept of foreigners cannot buy land, why , like they have put it
accross, can we absorb all our Goans abroad, ??????
What are we trying to do dig our past,
I would do the basic, hold on to my land,
we have survived by exodus to Sea , Africa, Gulf , UK, US and Australia, if
we can so can they.
I am a proud Goan , who lives here loves it here, I have tried to adjust,
Places , People and circumstances I cannot change , just myself.
IF I HAVE TI LIVE, CASTIGASTE OUR POLITICIANS, CAN WE ?? DO WE???
Do we really care about our GOA. or just our pockets,
Ayres deSouza
Post by Eddie Fernandes
"Confiscate properties of UK Goans and deport them"
Source: Herald 14 May 2008 at
http://oheraldo.in/pagedetails.asp?nid=3950&cid=13
By Michelle Savage, UK
Eight years ago, my husband and I decided that we no longer wanted to deal
with the stress of working in high pressure jobs. Our children were all
married and half of them had moved abroad. We looked around and decided to
move to Goa.
We approached a reputed builder and local advocate, who all told us we were
safe to buy property in Goa. To be on the safe side, we asked the advocate
to confirm through the Reserve Bank (RBI) that any purchase made by us was
legal. We received a letter from the RBI advising that there would be no
objection, providing we complied with FEMA. We still have this letter.
As we are not great lovers of modern architecture, we purchased an old
Portuguese house with a nice-sized garden. All the paperwork was completed
and we took possession of the property. Renovating the property and grounds
was expensive; in all honesty it would have been cheaper to build a new
house. But we were happy that it was our last house and we would make it
just as we wanted.
For several years we were very happy in Goa. Then all of sudden we are being
treated quite disgracefully. The press runs daily horror stories of how Goa
doesn't want people like us. We originally came on a 5 year X Visa. Then we
were told we no longer qualify for these visas, and can only have a
six-month tourist visa.
Now MLAs are openly saying that properties purchased by foreigners will be
confiscated and auctioned. We sadly decided to leave Goa, but were informed
that we could not sell our property. Our builder, who has enjoyed our
patronage for years, has said that he will deal with all the paperwork if we
sell the house to him for the initial purchase price (excluding what we paid
him). My husband has become quite ill from all the stress, and we are now
back in the UK so that he can be treated for the illness this has brought
on.
While we are here, I will asking the UK government to put in place a
reciprocal arrangement whereby properties of Goan settlers in the UK are
confiscated and the country's 60,000 Goan immigrants are forced to return to
India. We want to say that we wished we had never heard of Goa and had never
visited India. The whole experience makes me want to constantly cry, and I
have been prescribed anti-depressants, something that never happened in the
past. I would make a sincere plea to the authorities in Goa. We haven't done
anything wrong. Let us sell our legally purchased property and we guarantee
we will come back again.
Forwarded by Eddie Fernandes
http://www.goanvoice.org.uk/
-----Original Message-----
"Goa has become a Toilet"
13 May: British Expats Goa Forum.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536195
--
Ayres deSouza
Carvalho
2008-05-14 15:48:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Fernandes
"Confiscate properties of UK Goans and deport them"
------------------------------------

Dear Eddie,
It is very distressing to read the letter you
forwarded, not the least of which is because I have
recently landed in London. It seems to me that
bad-luck follows me like a black cat wherever I go.
When I first landed in the US, I was very proud to
tell them that I came from Dubai. Unfortunately, 9/11
put a stop to me ever mentioning the Middle East. Now,
in the UK, I've been very proud to say I'm from Goa,
but seems like I shall soon have to invent a bogus
ethnicity for myself. Just the other day someone asked
me if I was from South America. Perhaps S.American is
a possible fake identity for me. I shall have to
investigate.

What is going on in Goa at the moment is sheer and
utter madness. As a Goan, I understand that despair
and distrust have led to this backlash. However, it is
disgraceful that we Goans have turned out to be so
xenophobic. The British community who have bought
property or flats in Goa are a minuscule percentage,
who hardly make a dent in the overall property market.
(Note M Parriker makes the same assessment in his
interview).

There is this feeling that Goans in Goa cannot afford
to buy property in their own land. Well, NRI Goans
cannot afford to buy property in Goa either. Nor can I
afford to buy property in New York or London or Paris.
This is the reality of my personal finances. That
doesn't mean, I hold some hapless person responsible
for it. Goans cannot afford fish either, does that
mean we stop exporting fish?

There are things that we have to come to terms with,
and solutions that we have to seek within the
framework of a just and equitable system. Just making
laws as we go along, refusing to be part of a global
community, placing blame where none belongs and
embracing short-term solutions to long-term problems,
is what is primarily wrong with Goa today.

Chus,
selma
Eddie Fernandes
2008-05-15 13:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma,

It is comforting to know that there are other Goans who share my concerns.
Yes, I too am puzzled by some of the Goan reactions to Foreign Nationals
buying property in Goa. We have been led to understand that the Goan per
capita income is the highest in India but property prices used to be
comparatively very low. They are now catching up with national and
international levels but the locals will not accept this and are looking for
scapegoats.

Your analogy about Goans not being to afford fish is interesting but the
reason for this I am often told is due to the presence of tourists in Goa!
If this is the case I cannot understand why fish cannot be brought into Goa
from Karwar and Kerala. Also, do fish prices collapse in the May to Oct.
period each year?

I do not believe that the threat of confiscation of Foreign Nationals
properties will stand the test of the High Court since the law is a Union
rather than a State one. The Goa Government knows this but continues to
beat the drum to appease the mindless citizens. The noise is scary!

Eddie Fernandes

-----Original Message-----
From: Carvalho [mailto:elisabeth_car at yahoo.com]

It is very distressing to read the letter you
Forwarded ... What is going on in Goa at the moment is sheer and
utter madness.
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
2008-05-16 17:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Goa, become a toilet? Even if this is true, I would say the expat Goan
has to take on his or her own (large) share of the blame for this.

Why so?

Firstly, expat money has been used to "toiletise" Goa, even while we
keep getting sermons from abroad. Take a look at the 'rent backs'
along the Calangute-Candolim concrete slum and take a guess who's
investing in them.

You preach to everyone else, want to have a Goa with picturepostcard
qualities, and then go on to build your own palace in concrete
wherever! I know of expats who sold land to the kin of politicians in
Porvorim and then went on to talk about how "corrupt" Goa is!

Secondly, the expat character (as the letter below underlines) can
have a very fickle mindset. I know expats who had nothing to do with
Goa till 1992. And were then very proud to "be Goan" when the Brit
tourist "discovered" Goa as a holiday destination and playground to
cure boredom and fight lousy weather.

Now that we're seeing the end of the Brit tourist cycle here, the
expats are jumping on the bandwaggon and are quick to agree that "Goa
has become a toilet"!

Three cheers for having a mind of your own.

There is indeed a problem with expats not getting renewal for their
visas in Goa (and Kerala) in recent times. But should your judgement
of Goa (toilet or paradise) be just based on how cheap it is to access
holidays here! Please do not mix up issues. Yes, we have problems...
but we don't like it when someone tries to go hammar and tongs just to
make the most of the situation. Can expats see the issues in proper
light for themselves? FN
Post by Carvalho
Post by Eddie Fernandes
"Confiscate properties of UK Goans and deport them"
------------------------------------
Dear Eddie,
It is very distressing to read the letter you
forwarded, not the least of which is because I have
recently landed in London. It seems to me that
bad-luck follows me like a black cat wherever I go.
When I first landed in the US, I was very proud to
tell them that I came from Dubai. Unfortunately, 9/11
put a stop to me ever mentioning the Middle East. Now,
in the UK, I've been very proud to say I'm from Goa,
but seems like I shall soon have to invent a bogus
ethnicity for myself. Just the other day someone asked
me if I was from South America. Perhaps S.American is
a possible fake identity for me. I shall have to
investigate.
What is going on in Goa at the moment is sheer and
utter madness. As a Goan, I understand that despair
and distrust have led to this backlash. However, it is
disgraceful that we Goans have turned out to be so
xenophobic. The British community who have bought
property or flats in Goa are a minuscule percentage,
who hardly make a dent in the overall property market.
(Note M Parriker makes the same assessment in his
interview).
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-05-15 10:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Eddie
Just for the record, I want to say how saddened I was
by what Michelle Savage had to say about the
difficulties she and her husband faced in Goa when it
seems clear that they chose to live in Goa with
perfect credentials, finance and clean motives. I
would not say the same about many others who have
'colonised' parts of Goa and illegally blocked areas
to local Goans and about which the Government should
act by easily deporting some, when entirely in the
wrong, as per the law.

I do not wish to repeat many of the points on this
theme raised by Selma, Mario, Santosh etc but want to
emphasise that it really is time that many fellow
Goans got out of their extreme parochialism that
determines their mindsets about contemporary change in
Goa. I say this whilst fully recognising the effects
on ordinary people of significant population change in
Goa but want to emphasise that demonising new people
seeking a life and contribution to Goa is not the way
to do it. It is a fact that virtually all people
resident in Goa today came from elsewhere in the
recent or distant past and that there will continue to
be transitions because of the normal human movement
phenomena.

We really have a global paradox today in that, in
virtually any part of the world, local residents are
besides themselves over new settlers in their midst
but at the same time, over 200 million (including
large numbers of Goans) are currently seeking a life
in new countries. This is a fact that, has to be
reconciled with, and adjusted to, through intelligent
means and endeavours by the Goans in Goa. There is
indeed, at least on Goanet, something to say that,
constructive and carefully thought-out planning is now
becoming more evident and I would want to wish this
aspect (rather than xenophobia) every success.
Cornel DaCosta, London.
Post by Eddie Fernandes
"Confiscate properties of UK Goans and deport them"
Source: Herald 14 May 2008 at
http://oheraldo.in/pagedetails.asp?nid=3950&cid=13
By Michelle Savage, UK
Eight years ago, my husband and I decided that we no
longer wanted to deal
with the stress of working in high pressure jobs.
Our children were all
married and half of them had moved abroad. We looked
around and decided to
move to Goa.
Carvalho
2008-05-15 12:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Eddie
Just for the record, I want to say how saddened I
was
by what Michelle Savage had to say about the
difficulties she and her husband faced in Goa
-----------------------------------
Dear Eddie and Cornel,

A Irish gentleman read my letter on Goanet and wrote
in to thank me. I was rather glad he somehow came
across my letter, if only to reassure him that not all
Goans are xenophobes.

There is an outcry that Goans cannot afford property
or flats in Goa, so let me pose some pertinent
questions?

a) How many Goans can afford Wendel's creations? Does
this mean that Wendel must produce a designer line of
Kapod and Kasti, at affordable rates for Goans?
b) How many Goans can Remo find to finance, produce
and distribute his music? Does this mean he stop
producing music or does he seek financing and
distribution where he can?
c) How many Goans can afford the lobsters that are
sold at beach shacks for Rs600 a plate? Does this mean
Goan fishermen supply to shacks only after every
family in Goa has had a lobster on its plate?

Land is a resource and like any other resource it is
in short supply. People all over the world are facing
the same problem Goans are, which is why you elect
governments that put in place, affordable interest
rates, housing loan assistance, relieving the pressure
on the housing market by building low-cost housing.
These are some of the legitimate ways of doing it in a
free-market democracy.

Yes, ofcourse we have to conserve our land, our
culture and our heritage but we don't have to lose our
dignity or thwart democracy in the process.

selma
floriano
2008-05-16 05:21:16 UTC
Permalink
To all those who have contributed to "Goa has become a Toilet"
And all to all Goan Ex-pats and Goa lovers of the world.

DO COME AND HAVE A ROYAL 'SHIT' IN GOA.
And get paid for it too.

rgds
floriano
goasuraj


----- Original Message -----
From: "Carvalho" <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] "Goa has become a Toilet"
Post by Carvalho
Post by CORNEL DACOSTA
Hi Eddie
Just for the record, I want to say how saddened I
was
by what Michelle Savage had to say about the
difficulties she and her husband faced in Goa
-----------------------------------
Dear Eddie and Cornel,
in to thank me. I was rather glad he somehow came
across my letter, if only to reassure him that not all
Goans are xenophobes.
There is an outcry that Goans cannot afford property
or flats in Goa, so let me pose some pertinent
questions?..................................
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-05-15 13:06:46 UTC
Permalink
It is quite wonderful that new laws can be introduced to protect Goa & Goan land from non-Goans or should this be non-PIO. Yes wonderful.

Is it so wonderful that these laws can then be back-dated to another time or put out a person or family from their home AFTER they have settled & lived in the country, no doubt contributing as did this couple in their retirement years, by doing up an old house & also the land surrounding it, only to be told to leave, Goa does not want you?

I was approached by a developer some years ago, visited a conference they held at a hotel in Kensington, London. Was absolutely thrilled to see what was happening in Goa, but that was some years ago, at least 15 years ago.

My wife & me where self-employed business people on good money, we had a young family but thought about our future and wanted to do the same as this couple, buy a place and build a house, with a little land for cultivating own vegetables, have a nice tree or two and flowers etc.

But we were very wary of the rights of our children, being girls etc......... in Goa. Since my post on this last year, I was advised at the time that if my girls were PIO then there is no issue, there were several routes we could take to ensure their future, and property rights etc.

After much ado, here & there we noticed the developers were always asking for money upfront, the villas or duplex's etc were not yet built but deposits were being taken, so we did not go ahead.

Lucky for us. PIO or otherwise, one of us is NOT a PIO, will the Goan or Indian Government then choose to add a further amendment to the law and prohibit any spouse of a PIO not reside in their house?

Goa is getting hysterial with this, I am so very sorry for this couple, who in 8 years have managed to live & contribute to Goan society in their retirement but have been made to feel like the Ghattis the Goans abhor....... PIO or not, this couple were "Westerners" sorry, but Goa is for Goans only, no other people, not even from India or other parts of the world are welcome to live there.

Do come as tourists, we want your money, but if you decide to stay a bit too long, then we dont want you, we want new, fresh (young.........?) things with money, spend spend spend on booze & drugs, till you drop, or we will drop you, one way or another.

Disgraceful, I cannot believe my eyes and ears these days. Luckily MY PIO spouse is from Mauritius, where I AM welcome, as her spouse, to live indefinitely, in much the same way as she is WELCOME to live in the UK, where I was born, of European parentage, live, work, contribute to the society, as she has done for past 19 years. In Mauritius I know I will not be treated in this way, by the Mauritian Government, nor by the locals, with whom I have a great rapport. I am not the only European welcome in Mauritius, but then I suppose Mauritius has kept its exclusivity, anyone who can rustle up a couple hundred quid can find their way to a "hotel" for a week. For the same in Mauritius, well you need to rustle up five times that, and that's just the cheap end of the market. Anyone wanting a week in Mauritius can say goodbye to Rs 200,000 (fare, travel, food, hotel, sighseeing).

Unless you are like me, married to a Mauritian and have Mauritian relatives who know how to save money, rent a bungalow for the same price as I would have paid in Goa, yes that CHEAP.

Maybe its time to draw a line.............. if you dont want strangers in your country, put a sign saying so, just as the sign we once saw on Goanet, from a house owner wanting to rent his house " FOREIGERS ONLY "... except now it should read "Goans only, no Ghattis or Westerners need apply".

Welcome to Goa!

Oh my goodness, this cant go on.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eight years ago, my husband and I decided that we no longer wanted to deal with the stress of working in high pressure jobs ......................... We approached a reputed builder and local advocate, who all told us we were safe to buy property in Goa. To be on the safe side, we asked the advocate to confirm through the Reserve Bank (RBI) that any purchase made by us was legal. We received a letter from the RBI advising that there would be no
objection, providing we complied with FEMA. We still have this letter. As we are not great lovers of modern architecture, we purchased an old Portuguese house with a nice-sized garden. All the paperwork was completed and we took possession of the property. Renovating the property and grounds was expensive; in all honesty it would have been cheaper to build a new house. But we were happy that it was our last house and we would make it just as we wanted.

For several years we were very happy in Goa. Then all of sudden we are being treated quite disgracefully. The press runs daily horror stories of how Goa doesn't want people like us. We originally came on a 5 year X Visa. Then we were told we no longer qualify for these visas, and can only have a six-month tourist visa. Now MLAs are openly saying that properties purchased by foreigners will be confiscated and auctioned. We sadly decided to leave Goa, but were informed that we could not sell our property. Our builder, who has enjoyed our
patronage for years, has said that he will deal with all the paperwork if we sell the house to him for the initial purchase price (excluding what we paid him).
Mervyn Lobo
2008-05-15 20:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Fernandes
While we are here, I will asking the UK government to put in place a
reciprocal arrangement whereby properties of Goan settlers in the UK are
confiscated and the country's 60,000 Goan immigrants are forced to return to
India.
?
?
Folks,
1) It amazes me that in today's world,?a person can?migrate to another country and insist on keeping the nationality of his old country.
2) Thankfully,?the British?have a sense of justice and?do not pass?'revenge' laws for its citizens.
3) I agree with the author that Goa has become a toilet. The current crop of people who pose as politicians today?are, essentially,?the scum of Goan society. All they are concerned about is how to make money (bribes) in the short term. The pressure they are putting on foreigners to abandon their property?has?to be coming from their masters i.e. the?builders and property developers from out of?state.
?
Mervyn3.0


__________________________________________________________________
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com
gwasha
2008-05-16 02:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Merwyn
Calling Goa a Toilet turned state is one thing I would not agree with,
What have I done for my love, what I would or can do for her, is what I
would ask,
I have seen and heard all this grab about Goa written by all,
HOW MANY OF YOU CAN STAY IN GOA AND FIGHT FOR GOA.
The bottom line will be , I have a good Job and my family to take care of,
Preaching can go on and ideas conveyed, but not action and soul sacrifice,
We are responsible,
regards
Ayres deSouza
Post by JOHN MONTEIRO
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest
Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa
16-18, May 2008
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Eddie Fernandes
While we are here, I will asking the UK government to put in place a
reciprocal arrangement whereby properties of Goan settlers in the UK are
confiscated and the country's 60,000 Goan immigrants are forced to return
to
Post by Eddie Fernandes
India.
Folks,
1) It amazes me that in today's world, a person can migrate to another
country and insist on keeping the nationality of his old country.
2) Thankfully, the British have a sense of justice and do not pass
'revenge' laws for its citizens.
3) I agree with the author that Goa has become a toilet. The current crop
of people who pose as politicians today are, essentially, the scum of Goan
society. All they are concerned about is how to make money (bribes) in the
short term. The pressure they are putting on foreigners to abandon their
property has to be coming from their masters i.e. the builders and property
developers from out of state.
Mervyn3.0
__________________________________________________________________
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo!
Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com
--
Ayres deSouza
JOHN MONTEIRO
2008-05-16 13:00:35 UTC
Permalink
Not the way forward methinks but who cares, WE DO !! Time to let bygones be bygones, as long as you dont hurt someone on purpose, with malice or intent to do harm to their families, them personally, their faith, their land and their house.

We s%it on our own doorsteps if we dare, at our peril, the consequences are pretty obvious.

No more bile please, we need to find a way to get Goanet going, in the right direction.

Let us call a halt to the negativity regarding this thread, there is NO S&IT worse than someone else's, ours always smells of roses.

John Monteiro

-------------------------------------------------------

floriano <floriano.lobo at gmail.com> wrote:
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**** http://www.GOANET.org ****
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5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest
Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa

16-18, May 2008

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

To all those who have contributed to "Goa has become a Toilet"
And all to all Goan Ex-pats and Goa lovers of the world.

DO COME AND HAVE A ROYAL 'SHIT' IN GOA.
And get paid for it too.

rgds
floriano
goasuraj
Mervyn Lobo
2008-05-16 21:27:49 UTC
Permalink
?Yes, we have problems...
but we don't like it when someone tries to go hammar and tongs just to
make the most of the situation. Can expats see the issues in proper
light for themselves? FN
?
?
FN,
Goa's problems have nothing to do with the expatriates or NRI's.
?

The problem lies squarely?on?those resident in Goa. Look at?who you vote for. On one hand you have a bunch of crooks and absolutely corrupt politicians. The alternative is another set of crooks and corrupt politicians, only this group also has a religious agenda too!

Unfortunately, this is the light?how a tourist like me view's the situation.
?
Mervyn3.0



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Carvalho
2008-05-16 18:24:49 UTC
Permalink
--- "Frederick [FN] Noronha * ??? ??????????????????
??? ????????? ??????????????? "
Post by Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
Goa, become a toilet? Even if this is true, I would
say the expat Goan
has to take on his or her own (large) share of the
blame for this.
Please do not mix up issues.
------------------------------------------

Yes, yes, FN, three cheers! Let's find a fall guy
everytime something goes wrong in Goa. Rajan Parriker
will blame the little migrant guy, some Hindutvavaddi
will blame the Muslims infiltrating Goa, Gadgil and FN
will blame the affluent, the materialistic, the expat
or any other clod who happens to have earned a few
bucks by the sweat of his brow. The only person, not
responsible for the state of affairs in Goa, is the
Goan living in Goa.

No, the Goan living in Goa is free to vote in the most
corrupt politicians year in and year out, that Goan is
free to sell his land to developers, then march in the
streets demanding the developers abandon their
financial investment and walk back home empty singing
a merry tune all the way back to his bank, defaulting
on his loan and creating a financial quagmire in the
State. The Goan living in Goa, can employ labour from
outside of Goa at subsistence level wages, ensure that
their politicians legitimise their stay, and then that
same Goan in Goa will complain about migrants, assault
some hapless people, evict them from their homes and
send them back with barely their skin on them. Let's
not forget that Goans in Goa, sold their flats to the
British and now those Goans in Goa want to confiscate
their properties and auction them off. Let's wave
goodbye to law, justice and any semblance of fairness
as we know it.

Well, hallelujah! The lunatic left and righteous right
finally in agreement. But hey, who is to blame? That
expat Goan.


Chus,
Selma
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
2008-05-16 21:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Selma, My point was that either expat Goans see themselves as part of
the Goan reality, or they just stand on the sidelines... to cheer and
claim Goanity when the Brits (and others) are flocking here and its
fashionable to be Goan, or to cheer on as others tell us how terrrible
a society ours is and all that "become a toilet" stuff.

All of us are to blame, without doubt. Me and you too.

For the expat, the politicians alone are the fall guys! Without
intending to diminish their responsibility, let's acknowledge that the
politicians are in power so that land-sharks can build hideous
projects which can then, inter alia, be sold to expats too. They're
hear so that locals (at least those politically influential enough)
can destroy the environment and gain from it. Why blame politicians
alone? They do what they do because society (all of us, not just the
locals) allow them to do it.

Sometimes all these strings come dramatically together. Do you know of
that super-patriotic political party that gave a ticket to a young
lady (also the sarpanch of a Salcete village) who turned out to be a
US citizen! And do you know how many Congressmen have become
mineowners in the meantime?

Come on, if all our US-citizen brothers and sisters have a right to
vote for such a great president as a George Bush, who decides over
breakfast which country he'd like to bomb and over what excuse, surely
we Goans have the right to vote for some lesser marauding politicians?

Selma, everyone is just arguing positions which are convenient to
them. What's needed is a deeper understanding of the situation. By the
way, Goa is not in a mess only when the international media, the
national press and Rajan Parrikar tell you it is. I think what you'll
are looking at is not the reality, but the way the reality gets
reflected.

Surely Goa deserves better from its self-appointed spokespersons who
claim to love the region. FN
Post by Carvalho
Yes, yes, FN, three cheers! Let's find a fall guy
everytime something goes wrong in Goa. Rajan Parriker
will blame the little migrant guy, some Hindutvavaddi
will blame the Muslims infiltrating Goa, Gadgil and FN
will blame the affluent, the materialistic, the expat
or any other clod who happens to have earned a few
bucks by the sweat of his brow. The only person, not
responsible for the state of affairs in Goa, is the
Goan living in Goa.
No, the Goan living in Goa is free to vote in the most
corrupt politicians year in and year out, that Goan is
free to sell his land to developers, then march in the
streets demanding the developers abandon their
financial investment and walk back home empty singing
a merry tune all the way back to his bank, defaulting
on his loan and creating a financial quagmire in the
State. The Goan living in Goa, can employ labour from
outside of Goa at subsistence level wages, ensure that
their politicians legitimise their stay, and then that
same Goan in Goa will complain about migrants, assault
some hapless people, evict them from their homes and
send them back with barely their skin on them. Let's
not forget that Goans in Goa, sold their flats to the
British and now those Goans in Goa want to confiscate
their properties and auction them off. Let's wave
goodbye to law, justice and any semblance of fairness
as we know it.
Well, hallelujah! The lunatic left and righteous right
finally in agreement. But hey, who is to blame? That
expat Goan.
Eddie Fernandes
2008-05-16 22:49:21 UTC
Permalink
We know Goa has become a toilet thanks the photos from Rajan and JoeGoaUk

I would like to know if those who are critical of the expat investment in
Goa, and that includes FN, Floriano and Jane Rodrigues, have read Michelle
Savage's article. Also, could they please let us know if they feel that she
is being treated fairly. A straightforward yes or no please!

George Pinto has obviously read the letter but does not answer the question.
Nor is he able to recognise rhetoric.

To read the Michelle Savage letter see
http://oheraldo.in/pagedetails.asp?nid=3950&cid=13
- it is the last letter on the page.

For the original Goa has become a Toilet post see
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536195

If you think that these are isolated cases and can be dismissed check out
the heated discussions taking place in various groups such as:

http://www.indiamike.com/india/property-in-india-f105/

http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=94

http://www.holidaytruths.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=60

etc.

Is the confiscation of properties by the Goa Government moral? legal?

Eddie Fernandes
George Pinto
2008-05-16 23:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Fernandes
George Pinto has obviously read the letter but does not answer the question.
Nor is he able to recognise rhetoric.
To read the Michelle Savage letter see http://oheraldo.in/pagedetails.asp?nid=3950&cid=13
- it is the last letter on the page.
Yes Eddie, I read the entire letter twice and whether or not I am able to recognize rhetoric, is
irrelevant to Michelle patronizing and prejudicial letter. However, more to her point. She says
she has legally purchased property in Goa. If that is the case, her property should NOT be
confiscated and auctioned. This is a law and order issue. However, I do not know if the builder
who sold her the property did things legally, for now I give Michelle the benefit of the doubt.
Let's see details of her purchase transaction before we reach a definite conclusion.

On her other point about asking the UK govt. to have 60,000 Goans leave the UK, do you agree with
her view? Should we also go back in time and recoup all UK properties obtained throughout the
world, many of them illegally since it was through the colonial system and imperialistic policies?
As a beneficiary of the British colonial system, including the beneficiary of the current
deference to white skin in Goa, she is lecturing Goans on property rights! If she is leaving Goa,
I say good riddance.

Regards,
George
Carvalho
2008-05-16 23:30:09 UTC
Permalink
--- "Frederick [FN] Noronha * ??? ??????????????????
??? ????????? ??????????????? "
Post by Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
Selma, My point was that either expat Goans see
themselves as part of
the Goan reality, or they just stand on the
sidelines... to cheer and
claim Goanity when the Brits (and others) are
flocking here
-------------------------------
FN dearest,

I think we are all getting hot under the collar for no
reason at all. Let me clear a few things. Neither
Eddie nor I came up with the subject line for this
post. It was lifted from a letter written by a Brit.

Secondly, I don't think you of all people would
sincerely question either Eddie's or my "Goanity". I
take it you have the patent on that word:-) I am and
always will be a Goan. Shastikaan by nature,
Shastikaan by birth. I have a cemetery full of dead
relatives to prove my Goanity. I was a Goan long
before Brits discovered Goa, and will be one long
after they abandon it.

The only point being made here, atleast by me, is:
(a) Once a sale has gone through legally, how can the
government rescind it?

Let me assure you, unlike Americans, the vast majority
of Brits are poor, working class souls. These people
don't deserve to have their hard earned money flushed
down the drain, just because it will garner a few
votes at the ballot. There comes a time when every
society collectively must decide what their threshold
for integrity is.

This is my last post on the subject (so help me God
:-)
Chus,
selma

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