[Goanet] Lost tribe of Africa, Mestizos/response to Cornel 2

[Aristo]

Hi Selma & Cornel,

I have not been following this thread in its entirety, but this one
caught my eye. I claim no expert knowledge about the history of the
semantics of racial group terminologies, but I have a few thoughts on
today's usage. I don't see the need to invent any new words. As you
may have noticed, I have used the word "Black" instead of
"African-XXXXX" before and I do so frequently, as I am not a stickler
for political correctness. I even use the word "Chinky" while speaking
instead of "Oriental" or "Asian".

Now while "Black" is not considered derogatory by all, "Chinky" is
considered by them as equal to the term "Nigger". But as usual, a
fellow Chinky can use the term. Note that "Oriental" & "Asian" does
not include the Chinky-eyed people of Hawaii while "Asian" obviously
includes non-Chinky races.

Now I don't see any reason why we shouldn't call a fig a fig (the word
"spade" replaced for obvious reasons!). Both, "Black" and "Chinky"
refer to PHYSICAL characteristics rather than the REGIONAL roots that
their politically correct counterparts refer to (which are not
neccessarily correct). Why should a Black feel insecure about his or
her skin colour, or a Chinky about the shape of his or her eyes? My
exception is to the MANNER or CONTEXT in which the words are used. If
it is used in a derogatory sense, then I protest. In fact, even their
politically correct counterparts can be used derogatorily, which I
would then take exception to, especially when prefixed with that
horrible word "THESE"! Eg. "these" African-Americans, "these"
Orientals, and my latest favorite: "these" Bharats!

I hope to see a future bigotless generation where we wouldn't have any
qualms or insecurities about the semantics of racial or ethnic group
terminologies. In fact, I am already starting to see it.

Cheers,
Aristo.

On 11/1/06, Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

.... I looked up the word "negro" at Wikipedia and indeed

it is noted as archaic and having a negative
connotation. Yet, in the US, the word is used without
prejudice, such as in the United Negro College, negro
art, or he is a "fine negro man"

....I have yet to come across an alternative to the word,

which unfortunately has its origins in its latin
genesis meaning "black". In America, "blacks" is an
acceptable term but I have always found the term
unacceptable and have refrained from using it. I also
refrain from calling them Africans because Africa
consists of Arabs, Semites, and any other number of
races which are not "negroid" genetically.

....So now I am on a quest to find the right word.

However, I know two words I have to delete from my
vocabulary "negro" and "madrassi". Any suggestions to
alternatives are welcome :))

[Carvalho]

It was Khalil Gibran who wrote:

"You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which
you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make
them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with
yesterday."

On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.

There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation

The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.

The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.

And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.

Selma
------------------------






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[Roland Francis]

Hey, you have left out one generation, my generation. Valmiki Faleiro,
Alfred Tavares, Silviano Barbosa, Eugene Correia, Jose Colaco, Carmo
D'Cruz, Arnold Noronha and God knows who else.

We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else lit them.

I may venture to say that we are the ones who made it all happen. We
took our destiny in our own hands, educated ourselves went where we
wanted to go and didn't let daddy's money get us to where we are now.
And what's more, we had a lot of fun doing it all. The kind of fun
that modern technology will not allow those who came after us know
what it was like.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.
There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation
The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.
The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.
And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.
Selma

[Roland Francis]

Hey, you have left out one generation, my generation. Valmiki Faleiro,
Alfred Tavares, Silviano Barbosa, Eugene Correia, Jose Colaco, Carmo
D'Cruz, Arnold Noronha and God knows who else.

We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else lit them.

I may venture to say that we are the ones who made it all happen. We
took our destiny in our own hands, educated ourselves went where we
wanted to go and didn't let daddy's money get us to where we are now.
And what's more, we had a lot of fun doing it all. The kind of fun
that modern technology will not allow those who came after us know
what it was like.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.
There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation
The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.
The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.
And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.
Selma

[Roland Francis]

Hey, you have left out one generation, my generation. Valmiki Faleiro,
Alfred Tavares, Silviano Barbosa, Eugene Correia, Jose Colaco, Carmo
D'Cruz, Arnold Noronha and God knows who else.

We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else lit them.

I may venture to say that we are the ones who made it all happen. We
took our destiny in our own hands, educated ourselves went where we
wanted to go and didn't let daddy's money get us to where we are now.
And what's more, we had a lot of fun doing it all. The kind of fun
that modern technology will not allow those who came after us know
what it was like.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.
There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation
The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.
The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.
And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.
Selma

[Roland Francis]

Hey, you have left out one generation, my generation. Valmiki Faleiro,
Alfred Tavares, Silviano Barbosa, Eugene Correia, Jose Colaco, Carmo
D'Cruz, Arnold Noronha and God knows who else.

We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else lit them.

I may venture to say that we are the ones who made it all happen. We
took our destiny in our own hands, educated ourselves went where we
wanted to go and didn't let daddy's money get us to where we are now.
And what's more, we had a lot of fun doing it all. The kind of fun
that modern technology will not allow those who came after us know
what it was like.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.
There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation
The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.
The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.
And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.
Selma

[Roland Francis]

Hey, you have left out one generation, my generation. Valmiki Faleiro,
Alfred Tavares, Silviano Barbosa, Eugene Correia, Jose Colaco, Carmo
D'Cruz, Arnold Noronha and God knows who else.

We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else lit them.

I may venture to say that we are the ones who made it all happen. We
took our destiny in our own hands, educated ourselves went where we
wanted to go and didn't let daddy's money get us to where we are now.
And what's more, we had a lot of fun doing it all. The kind of fun
that modern technology will not allow those who came after us know
what it was like.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.
There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation
The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.
The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.
And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.
Selma

[Carvalho]

Dear Roland,

Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

This is very typical of your generation Roland to
assume that Daddy has bought and paid for every
succeeding generation. Do you think this generation
has been twiddling their thumbs while they wait for a
quirk of fate to bestow greatness on them? Let me tell
you how difficult their life is. They have to study
from sun-up to sunset if they hope to secure a seat in
a half-decent college. Many have been known to endure
anxiety, depression, nervous break-downs and even
suicide brought on by the stress of exams.

Once they get out of those colleges they have to
compete with brilliant minds all over India to secure
a half-decent job in a half-decent multinational or
risk being left on the shelf to be employed by some
third rate Indian manufacturing plant.

Entry level jobs still pay a pittance, barely able to
cover their bar tab, rent and transport. They have to
live in pigeon-holes in Indian metropolises, travel to
obscure parts of India usually by that contraption
called Indian Rail, put up in roach motels and eat
food guaranteed to give Montezuma a run for his money.
Please don't think anyone is handing out anything to
the Indians of today. They earn every bit of it.

Selma
-------------------------------------

Post by Roland Francis
We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese
days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the
achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that
the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and
experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo
generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else
lit them.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
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[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

Post by Carvalho
Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

[Roland Francis]

Frederick,
For that grey beard, try Godrej's carcinogenic hair dye, guaranteed to
make you never need a shave again.

For that bald or balding pate, try Rogaine, good not only for hair
regeneration but also for your blood pressure that arises when Cecil
gets as tight as a drum courtesy of Goa's fine liquors.

For those lackadaisical feelings, put on Carmo's patented pure silk
kashti and stand in his open balcony facing the Atlantic Ocean. Who
knows which bubbly American female may be looking up ward from the
condo atrium.

With regard to the kashti thing sorry, you might have to wait. Carmo
had ordered the stars and stripes boldly printed on the front in
typical American patriotic fervor, but the manufacturer being a
true-blue Floridian told him the order would only be filled if he
agreed to the Confederate flag instead. Carmo is now considering
whether an Up Yours symbol would do the job. That would increase it's
usefulness. If cut off on the I 75 to Miami, one could whip off the
kashti and wave it at the offender.

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

Post by Carvalho
Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

--
FN 9822122436 [phone] (phone calls after 1 pm please)

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Just for the record, Roland, I don't see enough of TV nor bother with
advertising-generated stereotypes to feel uncomfortable about my
age/experience/appearance. If you read me closely, I was just
complaining that my age is not taken seriously enough. So, thanks but
no thanks for the advice you so kindly proferred. --FN
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

Post by Roland Francis
Frederick,
For that grey beard, try Godrej's carcinogenic hair dye, guaranteed to
make you never need a shave again.
For that bald or balding pate, try Rogaine, good not only for hair
regeneration but also for your blood pressure that arises when Cecil
gets as tight as a drum courtesy of Goa's fine liquors.

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Just for the record, Roland, I don't see enough of TV nor bother with
advertising-generated stereotypes to feel uncomfortable about my
age/experience/appearance. If you read me closely, I was just
complaining that my age is not taken seriously enough. So, thanks but
no thanks for the advice you so kindly proferred. --FN
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

Post by Roland Francis
Frederick,
For that grey beard, try Godrej's carcinogenic hair dye, guaranteed to
make you never need a shave again.
For that bald or balding pate, try Rogaine, good not only for hair
regeneration but also for your blood pressure that arises when Cecil
gets as tight as a drum courtesy of Goa's fine liquors.

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Just for the record, Roland, I don't see enough of TV nor bother with
advertising-generated stereotypes to feel uncomfortable about my
age/experience/appearance. If you read me closely, I was just
complaining that my age is not taken seriously enough. So, thanks but
no thanks for the advice you so kindly proferred. --FN
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

Post by Roland Francis
Frederick,
For that grey beard, try Godrej's carcinogenic hair dye, guaranteed to
make you never need a shave again.
For that bald or balding pate, try Rogaine, good not only for hair
regeneration but also for your blood pressure that arises when Cecil
gets as tight as a drum courtesy of Goa's fine liquors.

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Just for the record, Roland, I don't see enough of TV nor bother with
advertising-generated stereotypes to feel uncomfortable about my
age/experience/appearance. If you read me closely, I was just
complaining that my age is not taken seriously enough. So, thanks but
no thanks for the advice you so kindly proferred. --FN
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

Post by Roland Francis
Frederick,
For that grey beard, try Godrej's carcinogenic hair dye, guaranteed to
make you never need a shave again.
For that bald or balding pate, try Rogaine, good not only for hair
regeneration but also for your blood pressure that arises when Cecil
gets as tight as a drum courtesy of Goa's fine liquors.

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

[Roland Francis]

Frederick,
For that grey beard, try Godrej's carcinogenic hair dye, guaranteed to
make you never need a shave again.

For that bald or balding pate, try Rogaine, good not only for hair
regeneration but also for your blood pressure that arises when Cecil
gets as tight as a drum courtesy of Goa's fine liquors.

For those lackadaisical feelings, put on Carmo's patented pure silk
kashti and stand in his open balcony facing the Atlantic Ocean. Who
knows which bubbly American female may be looking up ward from the
condo atrium.

With regard to the kashti thing sorry, you might have to wait. Carmo
had ordered the stars and stripes boldly printed on the front in
typical American patriotic fervor, but the manufacturer being a
true-blue Floridian told him the order would only be filled if he
agreed to the Confederate flag instead. Carmo is now considering
whether an Up Yours symbol would do the job. That would increase it's
usefulness. If cut off on the I 75 to Miami, one could whip off the
kashti and wave it at the offender.

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

Post by Carvalho
Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

--
FN 9822122436 [phone] (phone calls after 1 pm please)

[Roland Francis]

Frederick,
For that grey beard, try Godrej's carcinogenic hair dye, guaranteed to
make you never need a shave again.

For that bald or balding pate, try Rogaine, good not only for hair
regeneration but also for your blood pressure that arises when Cecil
gets as tight as a drum courtesy of Goa's fine liquors.

For those lackadaisical feelings, put on Carmo's patented pure silk
kashti and stand in his open balcony facing the Atlantic Ocean. Who
knows which bubbly American female may be looking up ward from the
condo atrium.

With regard to the kashti thing sorry, you might have to wait. Carmo
had ordered the stars and stripes boldly printed on the front in
typical American patriotic fervor, but the manufacturer being a
true-blue Floridian told him the order would only be filled if he
agreed to the Confederate flag instead. Carmo is now considering
whether an Up Yours symbol would do the job. That would increase it's
usefulness. If cut off on the I 75 to Miami, one could whip off the
kashti and wave it at the offender.

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

Post by Carvalho
Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

--
FN 9822122436 [phone] (phone calls after 1 pm please)

[Roland Francis]

Frederick,
For that grey beard, try Godrej's carcinogenic hair dye, guaranteed to
make you never need a shave again.

For that bald or balding pate, try Rogaine, good not only for hair
regeneration but also for your blood pressure that arises when Cecil
gets as tight as a drum courtesy of Goa's fine liquors.

For those lackadaisical feelings, put on Carmo's patented pure silk
kashti and stand in his open balcony facing the Atlantic Ocean. Who
knows which bubbly American female may be looking up ward from the
condo atrium.

With regard to the kashti thing sorry, you might have to wait. Carmo
had ordered the stars and stripes boldly printed on the front in
typical American patriotic fervor, but the manufacturer being a
true-blue Floridian told him the order would only be filled if he
agreed to the Confederate flag instead. Carmo is now considering
whether an Up Yours symbol would do the job. That would increase it's
usefulness. If cut off on the I 75 to Miami, one could whip off the
kashti and wave it at the offender.

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

Post by Carvalho
Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

--
FN 9822122436 [phone] (phone calls after 1 pm please)

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

Post by Carvalho
Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

Post by Carvalho
Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Since I have a mental age of 72 (soon to be 73), I don't understand
why you'll guys are berating me and making me younger than my years! I
earned every grey-hair in my beard (and lost every hair on my head)
the hard way! FN

Post by Carvalho
Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

[Bella Rebello-Hamm]

Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Yeah, I too was very surprised. A post on Goanet... actually without
any malice :-) These times... are achanging! FN

Post by Bella Rebello-Hamm
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Yeah, I too was very surprised. A post on Goanet... actually without
any malice :-) These times... are achanging! FN

Post by Bella Rebello-Hamm
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Yeah, I too was very surprised. A post on Goanet... actually without
any malice :-) These times... are achanging! FN

Post by Bella Rebello-Hamm
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Yeah, I too was very surprised. A post on Goanet... actually without
any malice :-) These times... are achanging! FN

Post by Bella Rebello-Hamm
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

[Mario Goveia]

Post by Bella Rebello-Hamm
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts,
with no malice, no negative curiosity really warms
my heart!. We should have more such literacy and
more Goans will interact on subjects without having
to be scared!

Mario observes:
Isabella,
No one who participates on Goanet with recognizable
facts and whatever opinion they choose to have in a
civil, positive and constructive manner has any reason
to be "scared", any more than they may be scared to
express their opinions among their local circle of
friends. After all, this is a cyber-forum and very
few of us have ever met each other. For example, I
have only met, face-to-face, two Goanetters, out of
the thousands of members around the world.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not to
their own made-up or selective facts. When the latter
is perceived the dialog can get a little testy.
In my opinion, we need more women to participate. We
have some eloquent women writers like Diana, Helga,
Ethel and Melinda that show up from time to time, but
only one, Selma, that routinely expresses herself on
Goanet. As you may have noticed, we treat her just
like one of the guys, and she, in turn, gives as good
as she gets and enters areas where even angels fear to
tread:-))

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements and contributions have
been listed so far, may I add that my generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some little measure to the
present and the future of Goa...
It will be time enough to forget us when we die.
Regards to all,
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Bella Rebello-Hamm wrote:
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

_______________________________________________

[Carvalho]

Dear Mario,

Even in real life, I generally end up being treated as
one of the guys but never get mistaken for one ;o)

selma
-----------------------------------

--- Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Selma, that routinely expresses herself on

Post by Mario Goveia
Goanet. As you may have noticed, we treat her just
like one of the guys, and she, in turn, gives as
good
as she gets and enters areas where even angels fear
to
tread:-))
_______________________________________________
Goanet mailing list
Goanet at lists.goanet.org

http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business
(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)

[Mervyn Lobo]

Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements
and contributions have been listed so far, may I
add that my generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some
little measure to the present and the future of
Goa... It will be time enough to forget us when we
die.

Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Mervyn Lobo



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Carvalho]

And long may it live Victor for because of your
generation, we have giant footsteps to follow in.

best regards,
selma

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>

Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements
and contributions have
been listed so far, may I add that my
generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some
little measure to the
present and the future of Goa...
It will be time enough to forget us when we
die.
Regards to all,
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

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Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year.
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[Carvalho]

Sheesh Mervyn,

I was thinking I'd come across a nice essay on
generations. What do I get? Some woodlands and
Yanni-music playing. This is the type of stuff you
send your girlfriend or wife after you've been caught
staring at other women :))

Selma
-----------------------------

Post by Mervyn Lobo
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.
http://www.thedashmovie.com
Mervyn Lobo

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

Mortgage rates near historic lows:
$150,000 loan as low as $579/mo. Intro-*Terms
https://www2.nextag.com/

[Carvalho]

Dear Frederick,

Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.

Speaking of how women age, an interesting thing
happened to me about two days ago. I was at one of my
husband's corporate events and a spunky, young
colleague of his walked up to him to discuss the
business of the day.

I couldn't help but feel a jab of envy. I was that
woman once. Spunky, dressed in office clothes,
discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding so full
of potential.

Fastforward, one decade later. Married, one pregnancy,
10 pounds I can't get rid off, one kid, trackpants and
nothing exciting to talk about but pureed applesauce.

Women can't win!!!:)
Selma
---------------------------------------

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to
fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of
most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we
respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

Get an Online or Campus degree
Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year.
http://www.findtherightschool.com

[Roland Francis]

Selma,
Frederick was pretty touchy about my advice on the hair-dye and the
Rogaine wasn't he?
Quickly took that to the youth worshipping tendency in the West before
I could say "godrej" and "kashti".

I agree (not too seriously) when you say that ageism is a gender
thing. I have twins, a boy and a girl who are now 21. The boy Richard,
is a strong silent type. Well read and a good communicator but will
not interfere until he fells there is some injustice being said or
done. She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.

When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.".

I have fun with their sibling rivalry and add a little flame-bait from
time to time, telling her that he is "my son in whom I am
well-pleased" and that I shall be leaving all the Assagao property to
him since he is the son of the family and Goans leave everything to
the male heir. While my wife will yell from the kitchen "don't worry
Victoria, he doesn't have any Assagao property ", Victoria, set off
like a firecracker, will go into a lecture on how dinsosauric Goan
thinking is.

I have fun with Victoria. She is a serious young woman. Except for the
woman part, just like our Fred. He takes everything too seriously.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
Dear Frederick,
Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.
Women can't win!!!:)
Selma
---------------------------------------
--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to
fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of
most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we
respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Hi Selma, What you describe below reflects your perception of reality,
rather than the reality per se. If one allows oneself to get
brainwashed by the dominant message coming out from the Western media
empire -- that you're over-the-hill after 25 -- then it's like
painting oneself into a (aging) corner.

When it comes to ageism being a gender thing, you're right and wrong.
Right because current society still stacks the odds against women
(largely). But then, if you accept things that way, you're making it a
self-fulfilling prophecy.

Advertisement after advertisement "defines" women in terms of their
body, men in terms of their brains and/or their purse. Should we
accept that as the norm? Should we try to fit into it ourselves? Can
there be "another world"?

In your example below, I could replace the "spunky, dressed in office
clothes (young woman) discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding
so full of potential" figure with a "young, overconfident male
journalist of 25". And the story fits. Just that, I *won't* accept it,
and say, "oh, so terrible." My approach is, let him/her do his/her
job... I do mine. And yes, I do have some thing to add value to.

As I see it, this all is not really because of gender, or profession!
But just because that's how the corporate (and media is a small, in
some ways part of this ... though in very different ways in your Wall
Street and our Panjim) world works.

At the end of the day, we all are what we accept we are.

Yeah, marriage and pregnancy (not for men... till date, at least ...
wonder what happens when cloning comes!) do shape our lives in
unimaginable ways. As a fairly hands-on babysitting dad (till now), I
can afford to say that. Instead of complaining about what we are not,
and what we wanted to be, I'd say just go on living life.

Roland isn't right when he says I take it too seriously (though one
might get that impression). At the end of the day, you don't get out
of it alive.

And, of course, you can't point to gender as an alibi for everything.
Some guys blame their jobs and workplace. Having no easy escape route,
I just blame myself! --FN

PS: Anyway, even if Roland thinks it odd, I'd like to reiterate that
I'm quite happy to be my age, never felt I've lost anything, no
regrets, wouldn't like to be 27 again for the life of me, it has been
hard work ... and I certainly wouldn't like to go through it again!
Don't believe life owes me anything; grateful for all I've got... it's
more than I deserved. Perhaps it's just because I see an answer in the
approach of Buddhism. You can never have enough; just tame the wants.
After all, craving causes sorrow, doesn't it? Even craving for youth!

Post by Carvalho
Dear Frederick,
Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.
Speaking of how women age, an interesting thing
happened to me about two days ago. I was at one of my
husband's corporate events and a spunky, young
colleague of his walked up to him to discuss the
business of the day.
I couldn't help but feel a jab of envy. I was that
woman once. Spunky, dressed in office clothes,
discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding so full
of potential.
Fastforward, one decade later. Married, one pregnancy,
10 pounds I can't get rid off, one kid, trackpants and
nothing exciting to talk about but pureed applesauce.
Women can't win!!!:)
Selma

[Roland Francis]

Selma,
Frederick was pretty touchy about my advice on the hair-dye and the
Rogaine wasn't he?
Quickly took that to the youth worshipping tendency in the West before
I could say "godrej" and "kashti".

I agree (not too seriously) when you say that ageism is a gender
thing. I have twins, a boy and a girl who are now 21. The boy Richard,
is a strong silent type. Well read and a good communicator but will
not interfere until he fells there is some injustice being said or
done. She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.

When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.".

I have fun with their sibling rivalry and add a little flame-bait from
time to time, telling her that he is "my son in whom I am
well-pleased" and that I shall be leaving all the Assagao property to
him since he is the son of the family and Goans leave everything to
the male heir. While my wife will yell from the kitchen "don't worry
Victoria, he doesn't have any Assagao property ", Victoria, set off
like a firecracker, will go into a lecture on how dinsosauric Goan
thinking is.

I have fun with Victoria. She is a serious young woman. Except for the
woman part, just like our Fred. He takes everything too seriously.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
Dear Frederick,
Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.
Women can't win!!!:)
Selma
---------------------------------------
--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to
fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of
most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we
respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Hi Selma, What you describe below reflects your perception of reality,
rather than the reality per se. If one allows oneself to get
brainwashed by the dominant message coming out from the Western media
empire -- that you're over-the-hill after 25 -- then it's like
painting oneself into a (aging) corner.

When it comes to ageism being a gender thing, you're right and wrong.
Right because current society still stacks the odds against women
(largely). But then, if you accept things that way, you're making it a
self-fulfilling prophecy.

Advertisement after advertisement "defines" women in terms of their
body, men in terms of their brains and/or their purse. Should we
accept that as the norm? Should we try to fit into it ourselves? Can
there be "another world"?

In your example below, I could replace the "spunky, dressed in office
clothes (young woman) discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding
so full of potential" figure with a "young, overconfident male
journalist of 25". And the story fits. Just that, I *won't* accept it,
and say, "oh, so terrible." My approach is, let him/her do his/her
job... I do mine. And yes, I do have some thing to add value to.

As I see it, this all is not really because of gender, or profession!
But just because that's how the corporate (and media is a small, in
some ways part of this ... though in very different ways in your Wall
Street and our Panjim) world works.

At the end of the day, we all are what we accept we are.

Yeah, marriage and pregnancy (not for men... till date, at least ...
wonder what happens when cloning comes!) do shape our lives in
unimaginable ways. As a fairly hands-on babysitting dad (till now), I
can afford to say that. Instead of complaining about what we are not,
and what we wanted to be, I'd say just go on living life.

Roland isn't right when he says I take it too seriously (though one
might get that impression). At the end of the day, you don't get out
of it alive.

And, of course, you can't point to gender as an alibi for everything.
Some guys blame their jobs and workplace. Having no easy escape route,
I just blame myself! --FN

PS: Anyway, even if Roland thinks it odd, I'd like to reiterate that
I'm quite happy to be my age, never felt I've lost anything, no
regrets, wouldn't like to be 27 again for the life of me, it has been
hard work ... and I certainly wouldn't like to go through it again!
Don't believe life owes me anything; grateful for all I've got... it's
more than I deserved. Perhaps it's just because I see an answer in the
approach of Buddhism. You can never have enough; just tame the wants.
After all, craving causes sorrow, doesn't it? Even craving for youth!

Post by Carvalho
Dear Frederick,
Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.
Speaking of how women age, an interesting thing
happened to me about two days ago. I was at one of my
husband's corporate events and a spunky, young
colleague of his walked up to him to discuss the
business of the day.
I couldn't help but feel a jab of envy. I was that
woman once. Spunky, dressed in office clothes,
discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding so full
of potential.
Fastforward, one decade later. Married, one pregnancy,
10 pounds I can't get rid off, one kid, trackpants and
nothing exciting to talk about but pureed applesauce.
Women can't win!!!:)
Selma

[Roland Francis]

Selma,
Frederick was pretty touchy about my advice on the hair-dye and the
Rogaine wasn't he?
Quickly took that to the youth worshipping tendency in the West before
I could say "godrej" and "kashti".

I agree (not too seriously) when you say that ageism is a gender
thing. I have twins, a boy and a girl who are now 21. The boy Richard,
is a strong silent type. Well read and a good communicator but will
not interfere until he fells there is some injustice being said or
done. She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.

When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.".

I have fun with their sibling rivalry and add a little flame-bait from
time to time, telling her that he is "my son in whom I am
well-pleased" and that I shall be leaving all the Assagao property to
him since he is the son of the family and Goans leave everything to
the male heir. While my wife will yell from the kitchen "don't worry
Victoria, he doesn't have any Assagao property ", Victoria, set off
like a firecracker, will go into a lecture on how dinsosauric Goan
thinking is.

I have fun with Victoria. She is a serious young woman. Except for the
woman part, just like our Fred. He takes everything too seriously.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
Dear Frederick,
Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.
Women can't win!!!:)
Selma
---------------------------------------
--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to
fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of
most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we
respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Hi Selma, What you describe below reflects your perception of reality,
rather than the reality per se. If one allows oneself to get
brainwashed by the dominant message coming out from the Western media
empire -- that you're over-the-hill after 25 -- then it's like
painting oneself into a (aging) corner.

When it comes to ageism being a gender thing, you're right and wrong.
Right because current society still stacks the odds against women
(largely). But then, if you accept things that way, you're making it a
self-fulfilling prophecy.

Advertisement after advertisement "defines" women in terms of their
body, men in terms of their brains and/or their purse. Should we
accept that as the norm? Should we try to fit into it ourselves? Can
there be "another world"?

In your example below, I could replace the "spunky, dressed in office
clothes (young woman) discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding
so full of potential" figure with a "young, overconfident male
journalist of 25". And the story fits. Just that, I *won't* accept it,
and say, "oh, so terrible." My approach is, let him/her do his/her
job... I do mine. And yes, I do have some thing to add value to.

As I see it, this all is not really because of gender, or profession!
But just because that's how the corporate (and media is a small, in
some ways part of this ... though in very different ways in your Wall
Street and our Panjim) world works.

At the end of the day, we all are what we accept we are.

Yeah, marriage and pregnancy (not for men... till date, at least ...
wonder what happens when cloning comes!) do shape our lives in
unimaginable ways. As a fairly hands-on babysitting dad (till now), I
can afford to say that. Instead of complaining about what we are not,
and what we wanted to be, I'd say just go on living life.

Roland isn't right when he says I take it too seriously (though one
might get that impression). At the end of the day, you don't get out
of it alive.

And, of course, you can't point to gender as an alibi for everything.
Some guys blame their jobs and workplace. Having no easy escape route,
I just blame myself! --FN

PS: Anyway, even if Roland thinks it odd, I'd like to reiterate that
I'm quite happy to be my age, never felt I've lost anything, no
regrets, wouldn't like to be 27 again for the life of me, it has been
hard work ... and I certainly wouldn't like to go through it again!
Don't believe life owes me anything; grateful for all I've got... it's
more than I deserved. Perhaps it's just because I see an answer in the
approach of Buddhism. You can never have enough; just tame the wants.
After all, craving causes sorrow, doesn't it? Even craving for youth!

Post by Carvalho
Dear Frederick,
Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.
Speaking of how women age, an interesting thing
happened to me about two days ago. I was at one of my
husband's corporate events and a spunky, young
colleague of his walked up to him to discuss the
business of the day.
I couldn't help but feel a jab of envy. I was that
woman once. Spunky, dressed in office clothes,
discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding so full
of potential.
Fastforward, one decade later. Married, one pregnancy,
10 pounds I can't get rid off, one kid, trackpants and
nothing exciting to talk about but pureed applesauce.
Women can't win!!!:)
Selma

[Roland Francis]

Selma,
Frederick was pretty touchy about my advice on the hair-dye and the
Rogaine wasn't he?
Quickly took that to the youth worshipping tendency in the West before
I could say "godrej" and "kashti".

I agree (not too seriously) when you say that ageism is a gender
thing. I have twins, a boy and a girl who are now 21. The boy Richard,
is a strong silent type. Well read and a good communicator but will
not interfere until he fells there is some injustice being said or
done. She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.

When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.".

I have fun with their sibling rivalry and add a little flame-bait from
time to time, telling her that he is "my son in whom I am
well-pleased" and that I shall be leaving all the Assagao property to
him since he is the son of the family and Goans leave everything to
the male heir. While my wife will yell from the kitchen "don't worry
Victoria, he doesn't have any Assagao property ", Victoria, set off
like a firecracker, will go into a lecture on how dinsosauric Goan
thinking is.

I have fun with Victoria. She is a serious young woman. Except for the
woman part, just like our Fred. He takes everything too seriously.

Roland.

Post by Carvalho
Dear Frederick,
Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.
Women can't win!!!:)
Selma
---------------------------------------
--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to
fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of
most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we
respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

[Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha]

Hi Selma, What you describe below reflects your perception of reality,
rather than the reality per se. If one allows oneself to get
brainwashed by the dominant message coming out from the Western media
empire -- that you're over-the-hill after 25 -- then it's like
painting oneself into a (aging) corner.

When it comes to ageism being a gender thing, you're right and wrong.
Right because current society still stacks the odds against women
(largely). But then, if you accept things that way, you're making it a
self-fulfilling prophecy.

Advertisement after advertisement "defines" women in terms of their
body, men in terms of their brains and/or their purse. Should we
accept that as the norm? Should we try to fit into it ourselves? Can
there be "another world"?

In your example below, I could replace the "spunky, dressed in office
clothes (young woman) discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding
so full of potential" figure with a "young, overconfident male
journalist of 25". And the story fits. Just that, I *won't* accept it,
and say, "oh, so terrible." My approach is, let him/her do his/her
job... I do mine. And yes, I do have some thing to add value to.

As I see it, this all is not really because of gender, or profession!
But just because that's how the corporate (and media is a small, in
some ways part of this ... though in very different ways in your Wall
Street and our Panjim) world works.

At the end of the day, we all are what we accept we are.

Yeah, marriage and pregnancy (not for men... till date, at least ...
wonder what happens when cloning comes!) do shape our lives in
unimaginable ways. As a fairly hands-on babysitting dad (till now), I
can afford to say that. Instead of complaining about what we are not,
and what we wanted to be, I'd say just go on living life.

Roland isn't right when he says I take it too seriously (though one
might get that impression). At the end of the day, you don't get out
of it alive.

And, of course, you can't point to gender as an alibi for everything.
Some guys blame their jobs and workplace. Having no easy escape route,
I just blame myself! --FN

PS: Anyway, even if Roland thinks it odd, I'd like to reiterate that
I'm quite happy to be my age, never felt I've lost anything, no
regrets, wouldn't like to be 27 again for the life of me, it has been
hard work ... and I certainly wouldn't like to go through it again!
Don't believe life owes me anything; grateful for all I've got... it's
more than I deserved. Perhaps it's just because I see an answer in the
approach of Buddhism. You can never have enough; just tame the wants.
After all, craving causes sorrow, doesn't it? Even craving for youth!

Post by Carvalho
Dear Frederick,
Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.
Speaking of how women age, an interesting thing
happened to me about two days ago. I was at one of my
husband's corporate events and a spunky, young
colleague of his walked up to him to discuss the
business of the day.
I couldn't help but feel a jab of envy. I was that
woman once. Spunky, dressed in office clothes,
discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding so full
of potential.
Fastforward, one decade later. Married, one pregnancy,
10 pounds I can't get rid off, one kid, trackpants and
nothing exciting to talk about but pureed applesauce.
Women can't win!!!:)
Selma

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Mervyn,
Thanks for sharing. My sentiments, exactly.
Regards,
Victor

Mervyn Lobo wrote:


Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Mervyn Lobo

[Mervyn Lobo]

Post by Carvalho
I was thinking I'd come across a nice essay on
generations. What do I get? Some woodlands and
Yanni-music playing. This is the type of stuff you
send your girlfriend or wife after you've been
caught staring at other women :))

Selma,
My wife and girlfriend are not going to catch me
staring at another women or man for that matter. When
I am with a women, I give her my 100% undivided
attention. That makes me a feminist, I guess.

Take it from an old fisherman that the secret to
successful fishing is to:
1) Go to where the fishes are
2) Use the right bait
3) Pay attention to the nibbling

When you go out looking for a real fighter like a
sailfish, AND follow the above, you will return with a
sailfish. Else, you become a member of the "catch and
release" society.

As for "woodlands and Yanni-music playing," some of us
chose to live that way. Others are forced to live in
the pollution heartland and then make noises that they
developed rare diseases.

Once again, since I am a follower of the message in
"The Dash," no one is going to catch me inattentive to
whats around and whats available to me.

Mervyn3.0





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[Gabriel de Figueiredo]

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
At the end of the day, we all are what we accept we
are.
Yeah, marriage and pregnancy (not for men... till
date, at least ...
wonder what happens when cloning comes!) do shape
our lives in
unimaginable ways. As a fairly hands-on babysitting
dad (till now), I
can afford to say that. Instead of complaining about
what we are not,
and what we wanted to be, I'd say just go on living
life.

Right. As one author put it in the editorial of a
computer magazine aeons ago, "if you're not a
millionaire by the time you're 25, you'll never be.
So take time to smell the flowers, fly kites with the
kids and enjoy every living moment with your loved
ones". I'd add to it, if you don't have a backyard,
plant a few pots and watch the flowers grow. Relax,
sit back and listen to the birds.

BTW, the art of "listening to nature" was taught to us
by the very innovative kindergarten teacher, popularly
known then as "Professora Mait?", in the pre- and
immediate post- "liberation" days (the school,
situated at Miramar, was dismantled by the Indian
authorities in Feb/March 1962, for reasons I still do
not know). After getting married, she used to live
opposite Azad Maidan.

Cheers,

Gabriel.

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[Sunith Velho]

Hi Roland,

Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and
calculating(more so than most men!)
in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or
clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that!

Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family
who is "telling it as he sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.

Regards
Sunith

Roland writes:

She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.

When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.".

[Roland Francis]

Touche, Sunith, you got me on that one!!!
Roland.

Post by Sunith Velho
Hi Roland,
Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and
calculating(more so than most men!)
in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or
clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that!
Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family
who is "telling it as he sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.
Regards
Sunith
She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.
When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.

[Roland Francis]

Touche, Sunith, you got me on that one!!!
Roland.

Post by Sunith Velho
Hi Roland,
Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and
calculating(more so than most men!)
in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or
clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that!
Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family
who is "telling it as he sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.
Regards
Sunith
She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.
When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.

[Roland Francis]

Touche, Sunith, you got me on that one!!!
Roland.

Post by Sunith Velho
Hi Roland,
Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and
calculating(more so than most men!)
in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or
clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that!
Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family
who is "telling it as he sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.
Regards
Sunith
She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.
When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.

[Roland Francis]

Touche, Sunith, you got me on that one!!!
Roland.

Post by Sunith Velho
Hi Roland,
Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and
calculating(more so than most men!)
in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or
clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that!
Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family
who is "telling it as he sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.
Regards
Sunith
She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.
When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.

[Mario Goveia]

Post by Roland Francis
She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little
too too logical for a woman but defintely
politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.
When I rant at home about the driving habits of
the Chinese or the lack of family values of the
West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying
"dad, you are a racist, dad you are too old, or
dad you're out of it.". He on the other hand,
will immediately butt in saying "dad is just
telling it as he sees it.
Contrary to your opinion, I think women are
extremely logical and calculating (more so than
most men!) in most matters, except when these
involve their spouses/boyfriends or clothes. You
daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn
that!
Also from your post it seems like you are not the
only one in your family who is "telling it as he
sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.

Mario observes:
Thank God for Victoria Francis who obviously has the
common sense to recognize and speak out against her
father's apparent penchant for gratuitous stereotyping
- "fairer" species [???], driving habits of the
Chinese [???], the lack of family values of the West
Indians [???], the pronunciations of the Filipinos
[???] - whereas the other acorn seems to have fallen
much closer to the tree.
"Telling it as he sees it?" I know several Chinese,
West Indian and Filipino immigrants in the US and
cannot recognize any one of these stereotypes.

[Aristo]

Hi Selma & Cornel,

I have not been following this thread in its entirety, but this one
caught my eye. I claim no expert knowledge about the history of the
semantics of racial group terminologies, but I have a few thoughts on
today's usage. I don't see the need to invent any new words. As you
may have noticed, I have used the word "Black" instead of
"African-XXXXX" before and I do so frequently, as I am not a stickler
for political correctness. I even use the word "Chinky" while speaking
instead of "Oriental" or "Asian".

Now while "Black" is not considered derogatory by all, "Chinky" is
considered by them as equal to the term "Nigger". But as usual, a
fellow Chinky can use the term. Note that "Oriental" & "Asian" does
not include the Chinky-eyed people of Hawaii while "Asian" obviously
includes non-Chinky races.

Now I don't see any reason why we shouldn't call a fig a fig (the word
"spade" replaced for obvious reasons!). Both, "Black" and "Chinky"
refer to PHYSICAL characteristics rather than the REGIONAL roots that
their politically correct counterparts refer to (which are not
neccessarily correct). Why should a Black feel insecure about his or
her skin colour, or a Chinky about the shape of his or her eyes? My
exception is to the MANNER or CONTEXT in which the words are used. If
it is used in a derogatory sense, then I protest. In fact, even their
politically correct counterparts can be used derogatorily, which I
would then take exception to, especially when prefixed with that
horrible word "THESE"! Eg. "these" African-Americans, "these"
Orientals, and my latest favorite: "these" Bharats!

I hope to see a future bigotless generation where we wouldn't have any
qualms or insecurities about the semantics of racial or ethnic group
terminologies. In fact, I am already starting to see it.

Cheers,
Aristo.

On 11/1/06, Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

.... I looked up the word "negro" at Wikipedia and indeed

it is noted as archaic and having a negative
connotation. Yet, in the US, the word is used without
prejudice, such as in the United Negro College, negro
art, or he is a "fine negro man"

....I have yet to come across an alternative to the word,

which unfortunately has its origins in its latin
genesis meaning "black". In America, "blacks" is an
acceptable term but I have always found the term
unacceptable and have refrained from using it. I also
refrain from calling them Africans because Africa
consists of Arabs, Semites, and any other number of
races which are not "negroid" genetically.

....So now I am on a quest to find the right word.

However, I know two words I have to delete from my
vocabulary "negro" and "madrassi". Any suggestions to
alternatives are welcome :))

[Carvalho]

It was Khalil Gibran who wrote:

"You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which
you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make
them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with
yesterday."

On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.

There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation

The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.

The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.

And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.

Selma
------------------------






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[Carvalho]

Dear Roland,

Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

This is very typical of your generation Roland to
assume that Daddy has bought and paid for every
succeeding generation. Do you think this generation
has been twiddling their thumbs while they wait for a
quirk of fate to bestow greatness on them? Let me tell
you how difficult their life is. They have to study
from sun-up to sunset if they hope to secure a seat in
a half-decent college. Many have been known to endure
anxiety, depression, nervous break-downs and even
suicide brought on by the stress of exams.

Once they get out of those colleges they have to
compete with brilliant minds all over India to secure
a half-decent job in a half-decent multinational or
risk being left on the shelf to be employed by some
third rate Indian manufacturing plant.

Entry level jobs still pay a pittance, barely able to
cover their bar tab, rent and transport. They have to
live in pigeon-holes in Indian metropolises, travel to
obscure parts of India usually by that contraption
called Indian Rail, put up in roach motels and eat
food guaranteed to give Montezuma a run for his money.
Please don't think anyone is handing out anything to
the Indians of today. They earn every bit of it.

Selma
-------------------------------------

Post by Roland Francis
We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese
days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the
achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that
the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and
experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo
generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else
lit them.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
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[Bella Rebello-Hamm]

Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

[Mario Goveia]

Post by Bella Rebello-Hamm
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts,
with no malice, no negative curiosity really warms
my heart!. We should have more such literacy and
more Goans will interact on subjects without having
to be scared!

Mario observes:
Isabella,
No one who participates on Goanet with recognizable
facts and whatever opinion they choose to have in a
civil, positive and constructive manner has any reason
to be "scared", any more than they may be scared to
express their opinions among their local circle of
friends. After all, this is a cyber-forum and very
few of us have ever met each other. For example, I
have only met, face-to-face, two Goanetters, out of
the thousands of members around the world.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not to
their own made-up or selective facts. When the latter
is perceived the dialog can get a little testy.
In my opinion, we need more women to participate. We
have some eloquent women writers like Diana, Helga,
Ethel and Melinda that show up from time to time, but
only one, Selma, that routinely expresses herself on
Goanet. As you may have noticed, we treat her just
like one of the guys, and she, in turn, gives as good
as she gets and enters areas where even angels fear to
tread:-))

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements and contributions have
been listed so far, may I add that my generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some little measure to the
present and the future of Goa...
It will be time enough to forget us when we die.
Regards to all,
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Bella Rebello-Hamm wrote:
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

_______________________________________________

[Carvalho]

Dear Mario,

Even in real life, I generally end up being treated as
one of the guys but never get mistaken for one ;o)

selma
-----------------------------------

--- Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Selma, that routinely expresses herself on

Post by Mario Goveia
Goanet. As you may have noticed, we treat her just
like one of the guys, and she, in turn, gives as
good
as she gets and enters areas where even angels fear
to
tread:-))
_______________________________________________
Goanet mailing list
Goanet at lists.goanet.org

http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
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[Mervyn Lobo]

Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements
and contributions have been listed so far, may I
add that my generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some
little measure to the present and the future of
Goa... It will be time enough to forget us when we
die.

Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Mervyn Lobo



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[Carvalho]

And long may it live Victor for because of your
generation, we have giant footsteps to follow in.

best regards,
selma

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>

Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements
and contributions have
been listed so far, may I add that my
generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some
little measure to the
present and the future of Goa...
It will be time enough to forget us when we
die.
Regards to all,
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro

____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Carvalho]

Sheesh Mervyn,

I was thinking I'd come across a nice essay on
generations. What do I get? Some woodlands and
Yanni-music playing. This is the type of stuff you
send your girlfriend or wife after you've been caught
staring at other women :))

Selma
-----------------------------

Post by Mervyn Lobo
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.
http://www.thedashmovie.com
Mervyn Lobo

____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Carvalho]

Dear Frederick,

Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.

Speaking of how women age, an interesting thing
happened to me about two days ago. I was at one of my
husband's corporate events and a spunky, young
colleague of his walked up to him to discuss the
business of the day.

I couldn't help but feel a jab of envy. I was that
woman once. Spunky, dressed in office clothes,
discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding so full
of potential.

Fastforward, one decade later. Married, one pregnancy,
10 pounds I can't get rid off, one kid, trackpants and
nothing exciting to talk about but pureed applesauce.

Women can't win!!!:)
Selma
---------------------------------------

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to
fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of
most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we
respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

Get an Online or Campus degree
Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year.
http://www.findtherightschool.com

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Mervyn,
Thanks for sharing. My sentiments, exactly.
Regards,
Victor

Mervyn Lobo wrote:


Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Mervyn Lobo

[Mervyn Lobo]

Post by Carvalho
I was thinking I'd come across a nice essay on
generations. What do I get? Some woodlands and
Yanni-music playing. This is the type of stuff you
send your girlfriend or wife after you've been
caught staring at other women :))

Selma,
My wife and girlfriend are not going to catch me
staring at another women or man for that matter. When
I am with a women, I give her my 100% undivided
attention. That makes me a feminist, I guess.

Take it from an old fisherman that the secret to
successful fishing is to:
1) Go to where the fishes are
2) Use the right bait
3) Pay attention to the nibbling

When you go out looking for a real fighter like a
sailfish, AND follow the above, you will return with a
sailfish. Else, you become a member of the "catch and
release" society.

As for "woodlands and Yanni-music playing," some of us
chose to live that way. Others are forced to live in
the pollution heartland and then make noises that they
developed rare diseases.

Once again, since I am a follower of the message in
"The Dash," no one is going to catch me inattentive to
whats around and whats available to me.

Mervyn3.0





__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Gabriel de Figueiredo]

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
At the end of the day, we all are what we accept we
are.
Yeah, marriage and pregnancy (not for men... till
date, at least ...
wonder what happens when cloning comes!) do shape
our lives in
unimaginable ways. As a fairly hands-on babysitting
dad (till now), I
can afford to say that. Instead of complaining about
what we are not,
and what we wanted to be, I'd say just go on living
life.

Right. As one author put it in the editorial of a
computer magazine aeons ago, "if you're not a
millionaire by the time you're 25, you'll never be.
So take time to smell the flowers, fly kites with the
kids and enjoy every living moment with your loved
ones". I'd add to it, if you don't have a backyard,
plant a few pots and watch the flowers grow. Relax,
sit back and listen to the birds.

BTW, the art of "listening to nature" was taught to us
by the very innovative kindergarten teacher, popularly
known then as "Professora Mait?", in the pre- and
immediate post- "liberation" days (the school,
situated at Miramar, was dismantled by the Indian
authorities in Feb/March 1962, for reasons I still do
not know). After getting married, she used to live
opposite Azad Maidan.

Cheers,

Gabriel.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

[Sunith Velho]

Hi Roland,

Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and
calculating(more so than most men!)
in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or
clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that!

Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family
who is "telling it as he sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.

Regards
Sunith

Roland writes:

She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.

When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.".

[Mario Goveia]

Post by Roland Francis
She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little
too too logical for a woman but defintely
politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.
When I rant at home about the driving habits of
the Chinese or the lack of family values of the
West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying
"dad, you are a racist, dad you are too old, or
dad you're out of it.". He on the other hand,
will immediately butt in saying "dad is just
telling it as he sees it.
Contrary to your opinion, I think women are
extremely logical and calculating (more so than
most men!) in most matters, except when these
involve their spouses/boyfriends or clothes. You
daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn
that!
Also from your post it seems like you are not the
only one in your family who is "telling it as he
sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.

Mario observes:
Thank God for Victoria Francis who obviously has the
common sense to recognize and speak out against her
father's apparent penchant for gratuitous stereotyping
- "fairer" species [???], driving habits of the
Chinese [???], the lack of family values of the West
Indians [???], the pronunciations of the Filipinos
[???] - whereas the other acorn seems to have fallen
much closer to the tree.
"Telling it as he sees it?" I know several Chinese,
West Indian and Filipino immigrants in the US and
cannot recognize any one of these stereotypes.

[Aristo]

Hi Selma & Cornel,

I have not been following this thread in its entirety, but this one
caught my eye. I claim no expert knowledge about the history of the
semantics of racial group terminologies, but I have a few thoughts on
today's usage. I don't see the need to invent any new words. As you
may have noticed, I have used the word "Black" instead of
"African-XXXXX" before and I do so frequently, as I am not a stickler
for political correctness. I even use the word "Chinky" while speaking
instead of "Oriental" or "Asian".

Now while "Black" is not considered derogatory by all, "Chinky" is
considered by them as equal to the term "Nigger". But as usual, a
fellow Chinky can use the term. Note that "Oriental" & "Asian" does
not include the Chinky-eyed people of Hawaii while "Asian" obviously
includes non-Chinky races.

Now I don't see any reason why we shouldn't call a fig a fig (the word
"spade" replaced for obvious reasons!). Both, "Black" and "Chinky"
refer to PHYSICAL characteristics rather than the REGIONAL roots that
their politically correct counterparts refer to (which are not
neccessarily correct). Why should a Black feel insecure about his or
her skin colour, or a Chinky about the shape of his or her eyes? My
exception is to the MANNER or CONTEXT in which the words are used. If
it is used in a derogatory sense, then I protest. In fact, even their
politically correct counterparts can be used derogatorily, which I
would then take exception to, especially when prefixed with that
horrible word "THESE"! Eg. "these" African-Americans, "these"
Orientals, and my latest favorite: "these" Bharats!

I hope to see a future bigotless generation where we wouldn't have any
qualms or insecurities about the semantics of racial or ethnic group
terminologies. In fact, I am already starting to see it.

Cheers,
Aristo.

On 11/1/06, Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

.... I looked up the word "negro" at Wikipedia and indeed

it is noted as archaic and having a negative
connotation. Yet, in the US, the word is used without
prejudice, such as in the United Negro College, negro
art, or he is a "fine negro man"

....I have yet to come across an alternative to the word,

which unfortunately has its origins in its latin
genesis meaning "black". In America, "blacks" is an
acceptable term but I have always found the term
unacceptable and have refrained from using it. I also
refrain from calling them Africans because Africa
consists of Arabs, Semites, and any other number of
races which are not "negroid" genetically.

....So now I am on a quest to find the right word.

However, I know two words I have to delete from my
vocabulary "negro" and "madrassi". Any suggestions to
alternatives are welcome :))

[Carvalho]

It was Khalil Gibran who wrote:

"You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which
you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make
them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with
yesterday."

On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.

There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation

The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.

The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.

And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.

Selma
------------------------






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[Carvalho]

Dear Roland,

Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

This is very typical of your generation Roland to
assume that Daddy has bought and paid for every
succeeding generation. Do you think this generation
has been twiddling their thumbs while they wait for a
quirk of fate to bestow greatness on them? Let me tell
you how difficult their life is. They have to study
from sun-up to sunset if they hope to secure a seat in
a half-decent college. Many have been known to endure
anxiety, depression, nervous break-downs and even
suicide brought on by the stress of exams.

Once they get out of those colleges they have to
compete with brilliant minds all over India to secure
a half-decent job in a half-decent multinational or
risk being left on the shelf to be employed by some
third rate Indian manufacturing plant.

Entry level jobs still pay a pittance, barely able to
cover their bar tab, rent and transport. They have to
live in pigeon-holes in Indian metropolises, travel to
obscure parts of India usually by that contraption
called Indian Rail, put up in roach motels and eat
food guaranteed to give Montezuma a run for his money.
Please don't think anyone is handing out anything to
the Indians of today. They earn every bit of it.

Selma
-------------------------------------

Post by Roland Francis
We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese
days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the
achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that
the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and
experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo
generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else
lit them.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
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[Bella Rebello-Hamm]

Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

[Mario Goveia]

Post by Bella Rebello-Hamm
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts,
with no malice, no negative curiosity really warms
my heart!. We should have more such literacy and
more Goans will interact on subjects without having
to be scared!

Mario observes:
Isabella,
No one who participates on Goanet with recognizable
facts and whatever opinion they choose to have in a
civil, positive and constructive manner has any reason
to be "scared", any more than they may be scared to
express their opinions among their local circle of
friends. After all, this is a cyber-forum and very
few of us have ever met each other. For example, I
have only met, face-to-face, two Goanetters, out of
the thousands of members around the world.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not to
their own made-up or selective facts. When the latter
is perceived the dialog can get a little testy.
In my opinion, we need more women to participate. We
have some eloquent women writers like Diana, Helga,
Ethel and Melinda that show up from time to time, but
only one, Selma, that routinely expresses herself on
Goanet. As you may have noticed, we treat her just
like one of the guys, and she, in turn, gives as good
as she gets and enters areas where even angels fear to
tread:-))

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements and contributions have
been listed so far, may I add that my generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some little measure to the
present and the future of Goa...
It will be time enough to forget us when we die.
Regards to all,
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Bella Rebello-Hamm wrote:
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

_______________________________________________

[Carvalho]

Dear Mario,

Even in real life, I generally end up being treated as
one of the guys but never get mistaken for one ;o)

selma
-----------------------------------

--- Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Selma, that routinely expresses herself on

Post by Mario Goveia
Goanet. As you may have noticed, we treat her just
like one of the guys, and she, in turn, gives as
good
as she gets and enters areas where even angels fear
to
tread:-))
_______________________________________________
Goanet mailing list
Goanet at lists.goanet.org

http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business
(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)

[Mervyn Lobo]

Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements
and contributions have been listed so far, may I
add that my generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some
little measure to the present and the future of
Goa... It will be time enough to forget us when we
die.

Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Mervyn Lobo



__________________________________________________
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[Carvalho]

And long may it live Victor for because of your
generation, we have giant footsteps to follow in.

best regards,
selma

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>

Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements
and contributions have
been listed so far, may I add that my
generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some
little measure to the
present and the future of Goa...
It will be time enough to forget us when we
die.
Regards to all,
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

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[Carvalho]

Sheesh Mervyn,

I was thinking I'd come across a nice essay on
generations. What do I get? Some woodlands and
Yanni-music playing. This is the type of stuff you
send your girlfriend or wife after you've been caught
staring at other women :))

Selma
-----------------------------

Post by Mervyn Lobo
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.
http://www.thedashmovie.com
Mervyn Lobo

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

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[Carvalho]

Dear Frederick,

Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.

Speaking of how women age, an interesting thing
happened to me about two days ago. I was at one of my
husband's corporate events and a spunky, young
colleague of his walked up to him to discuss the
business of the day.

I couldn't help but feel a jab of envy. I was that
woman once. Spunky, dressed in office clothes,
discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding so full
of potential.

Fastforward, one decade later. Married, one pregnancy,
10 pounds I can't get rid off, one kid, trackpants and
nothing exciting to talk about but pureed applesauce.

Women can't win!!!:)
Selma
---------------------------------------

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to
fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of
most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we
respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

Get an Online or Campus degree
Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year.
http://www.findtherightschool.com

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Mervyn,
Thanks for sharing. My sentiments, exactly.
Regards,
Victor

Mervyn Lobo wrote:


Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Mervyn Lobo

[Mervyn Lobo]

Post by Carvalho
I was thinking I'd come across a nice essay on
generations. What do I get? Some woodlands and
Yanni-music playing. This is the type of stuff you
send your girlfriend or wife after you've been
caught staring at other women :))

Selma,
My wife and girlfriend are not going to catch me
staring at another women or man for that matter. When
I am with a women, I give her my 100% undivided
attention. That makes me a feminist, I guess.

Take it from an old fisherman that the secret to
successful fishing is to:
1) Go to where the fishes are
2) Use the right bait
3) Pay attention to the nibbling

When you go out looking for a real fighter like a
sailfish, AND follow the above, you will return with a
sailfish. Else, you become a member of the "catch and
release" society.

As for "woodlands and Yanni-music playing," some of us
chose to live that way. Others are forced to live in
the pollution heartland and then make noises that they
developed rare diseases.

Once again, since I am a follower of the message in
"The Dash," no one is going to catch me inattentive to
whats around and whats available to me.

Mervyn3.0





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[Gabriel de Figueiredo]

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
At the end of the day, we all are what we accept we
are.
Yeah, marriage and pregnancy (not for men... till
date, at least ...
wonder what happens when cloning comes!) do shape
our lives in
unimaginable ways. As a fairly hands-on babysitting
dad (till now), I
can afford to say that. Instead of complaining about
what we are not,
and what we wanted to be, I'd say just go on living
life.

Right. As one author put it in the editorial of a
computer magazine aeons ago, "if you're not a
millionaire by the time you're 25, you'll never be.
So take time to smell the flowers, fly kites with the
kids and enjoy every living moment with your loved
ones". I'd add to it, if you don't have a backyard,
plant a few pots and watch the flowers grow. Relax,
sit back and listen to the birds.

BTW, the art of "listening to nature" was taught to us
by the very innovative kindergarten teacher, popularly
known then as "Professora Mait?", in the pre- and
immediate post- "liberation" days (the school,
situated at Miramar, was dismantled by the Indian
authorities in Feb/March 1962, for reasons I still do
not know). After getting married, she used to live
opposite Azad Maidan.

Cheers,

Gabriel.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

[Sunith Velho]

Hi Roland,

Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and
calculating(more so than most men!)
in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or
clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that!

Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family
who is "telling it as he sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.

Regards
Sunith

Roland writes:

She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.

When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.".

[Mario Goveia]

Post by Roland Francis
She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little
too too logical for a woman but defintely
politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.
When I rant at home about the driving habits of
the Chinese or the lack of family values of the
West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying
"dad, you are a racist, dad you are too old, or
dad you're out of it.". He on the other hand,
will immediately butt in saying "dad is just
telling it as he sees it.
Contrary to your opinion, I think women are
extremely logical and calculating (more so than
most men!) in most matters, except when these
involve their spouses/boyfriends or clothes. You
daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn
that!
Also from your post it seems like you are not the
only one in your family who is "telling it as he
sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.

Mario observes:
Thank God for Victoria Francis who obviously has the
common sense to recognize and speak out against her
father's apparent penchant for gratuitous stereotyping
- "fairer" species [???], driving habits of the
Chinese [???], the lack of family values of the West
Indians [???], the pronunciations of the Filipinos
[???] - whereas the other acorn seems to have fallen
much closer to the tree.
"Telling it as he sees it?" I know several Chinese,
West Indian and Filipino immigrants in the US and
cannot recognize any one of these stereotypes.

[Aristo]

Hi Selma & Cornel,

I have not been following this thread in its entirety, but this one
caught my eye. I claim no expert knowledge about the history of the
semantics of racial group terminologies, but I have a few thoughts on
today's usage. I don't see the need to invent any new words. As you
may have noticed, I have used the word "Black" instead of
"African-XXXXX" before and I do so frequently, as I am not a stickler
for political correctness. I even use the word "Chinky" while speaking
instead of "Oriental" or "Asian".

Now while "Black" is not considered derogatory by all, "Chinky" is
considered by them as equal to the term "Nigger". But as usual, a
fellow Chinky can use the term. Note that "Oriental" & "Asian" does
not include the Chinky-eyed people of Hawaii while "Asian" obviously
includes non-Chinky races.

Now I don't see any reason why we shouldn't call a fig a fig (the word
"spade" replaced for obvious reasons!). Both, "Black" and "Chinky"
refer to PHYSICAL characteristics rather than the REGIONAL roots that
their politically correct counterparts refer to (which are not
neccessarily correct). Why should a Black feel insecure about his or
her skin colour, or a Chinky about the shape of his or her eyes? My
exception is to the MANNER or CONTEXT in which the words are used. If
it is used in a derogatory sense, then I protest. In fact, even their
politically correct counterparts can be used derogatorily, which I
would then take exception to, especially when prefixed with that
horrible word "THESE"! Eg. "these" African-Americans, "these"
Orientals, and my latest favorite: "these" Bharats!

I hope to see a future bigotless generation where we wouldn't have any
qualms or insecurities about the semantics of racial or ethnic group
terminologies. In fact, I am already starting to see it.

Cheers,
Aristo.

On 11/1/06, Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

.... I looked up the word "negro" at Wikipedia and indeed

it is noted as archaic and having a negative
connotation. Yet, in the US, the word is used without
prejudice, such as in the United Negro College, negro
art, or he is a "fine negro man"

....I have yet to come across an alternative to the word,

which unfortunately has its origins in its latin
genesis meaning "black". In America, "blacks" is an
acceptable term but I have always found the term
unacceptable and have refrained from using it. I also
refrain from calling them Africans because Africa
consists of Arabs, Semites, and any other number of
races which are not "negroid" genetically.

....So now I am on a quest to find the right word.

However, I know two words I have to delete from my
vocabulary "negro" and "madrassi". Any suggestions to
alternatives are welcome :))

[Carvalho]

It was Khalil Gibran who wrote:

"You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which
you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make
them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with
yesterday."

On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.

There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation

The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.

The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.

And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.

Selma
------------------------






____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates
(http://voice.yahoo.com)

[Carvalho]

Dear Roland,

Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

This is very typical of your generation Roland to
assume that Daddy has bought and paid for every
succeeding generation. Do you think this generation
has been twiddling their thumbs while they wait for a
quirk of fate to bestow greatness on them? Let me tell
you how difficult their life is. They have to study
from sun-up to sunset if they hope to secure a seat in
a half-decent college. Many have been known to endure
anxiety, depression, nervous break-downs and even
suicide brought on by the stress of exams.

Once they get out of those colleges they have to
compete with brilliant minds all over India to secure
a half-decent job in a half-decent multinational or
risk being left on the shelf to be employed by some
third rate Indian manufacturing plant.

Entry level jobs still pay a pittance, barely able to
cover their bar tab, rent and transport. They have to
live in pigeon-holes in Indian metropolises, travel to
obscure parts of India usually by that contraption
called Indian Rail, put up in roach motels and eat
food guaranteed to give Montezuma a run for his money.
Please don't think anyone is handing out anything to
the Indians of today. They earn every bit of it.

Selma
-------------------------------------

Post by Roland Francis
We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese
days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the
achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that
the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and
experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo
generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else
lit them.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
(http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta)

[Bella Rebello-Hamm]

Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

[Mario Goveia]

Post by Bella Rebello-Hamm
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts,
with no malice, no negative curiosity really warms
my heart!. We should have more such literacy and
more Goans will interact on subjects without having
to be scared!

Mario observes:
Isabella,
No one who participates on Goanet with recognizable
facts and whatever opinion they choose to have in a
civil, positive and constructive manner has any reason
to be "scared", any more than they may be scared to
express their opinions among their local circle of
friends. After all, this is a cyber-forum and very
few of us have ever met each other. For example, I
have only met, face-to-face, two Goanetters, out of
the thousands of members around the world.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not to
their own made-up or selective facts. When the latter
is perceived the dialog can get a little testy.
In my opinion, we need more women to participate. We
have some eloquent women writers like Diana, Helga,
Ethel and Melinda that show up from time to time, but
only one, Selma, that routinely expresses herself on
Goanet. As you may have noticed, we treat her just
like one of the guys, and she, in turn, gives as good
as she gets and enters areas where even angels fear to
tread:-))

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements and contributions have
been listed so far, may I add that my generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some little measure to the
present and the future of Goa...
It will be time enough to forget us when we die.
Regards to all,
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Bella Rebello-Hamm wrote:
Dear All,
This inspiring educational and heart moving texts, with no malice, no
negative curiosity really warms my heart!. We should have more such
literacy and more Goans will interact on subjects without having to be
scared!
Isabella.

_______________________________________________

[Carvalho]

Dear Mario,

Even in real life, I generally end up being treated as
one of the guys but never get mistaken for one ;o)

selma
-----------------------------------

--- Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Selma, that routinely expresses herself on

Post by Mario Goveia
Goanet. As you may have noticed, we treat her just
like one of the guys, and she, in turn, gives as
good
as she gets and enters areas where even angels fear
to
tread:-))
_______________________________________________
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Goanet at lists.goanet.org

http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
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[Mervyn Lobo]

Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements
and contributions have been listed so far, may I
add that my generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some
little measure to the present and the future of
Goa... It will be time enough to forget us when we
die.

Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Mervyn Lobo



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[Carvalho]

And long may it live Victor for because of your
generation, we have giant footsteps to follow in.

best regards,
selma

--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <vrangelrib at yahoo.com>

Post by Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
Dear Selma, Isabella, Roland, et al,
To the three generations whose achievements
and contributions have
been listed so far, may I add that my
generation---Goans in their eighties
and nineties---is still around, contributing in some
little measure to the
present and the future of Goa...
It will be time enough to forget us when we
die.
Regards to all,
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro

____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Carvalho]

Sheesh Mervyn,

I was thinking I'd come across a nice essay on
generations. What do I get? Some woodlands and
Yanni-music playing. This is the type of stuff you
send your girlfriend or wife after you've been caught
staring at other women :))

Selma
-----------------------------

Post by Mervyn Lobo
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.
http://www.thedashmovie.com
Mervyn Lobo

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[Carvalho]

Dear Frederick,

Ageism is not a culture thing, it's a gender thing.
While we women appreciate our men and wine, aged and
mature, men on the other hand like women to be forever
young.

Speaking of how women age, an interesting thing
happened to me about two days ago. I was at one of my
husband's corporate events and a spunky, young
colleague of his walked up to him to discuss the
business of the day.

I couldn't help but feel a jab of envy. I was that
woman once. Spunky, dressed in office clothes,
discussing corporate thingamajigs and sounding so full
of potential.

Fastforward, one decade later. Married, one pregnancy,
10 pounds I can't get rid off, one kid, trackpants and
nothing exciting to talk about but pureed applesauce.

Women can't win!!!:)
Selma
---------------------------------------

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
PS: Can we form an "oldies" club out here... just to
fight the age-ism
(as bad as racism or genderism and speciesism) of
most Goanetters? In
the West, you guys worship youth. In the East, we
respect age and
experience! So it's a perception gap....

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year.
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[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Mervyn,
Thanks for sharing. My sentiments, exactly.
Regards,
Victor

Mervyn Lobo wrote:


Victor Rangel-Ribeiro,
Here is a link to a short clip called "The Dash." It
addresses all generations I think. I found it very
interesting.

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Mervyn Lobo

[Mervyn Lobo]

Post by Carvalho
I was thinking I'd come across a nice essay on
generations. What do I get? Some woodlands and
Yanni-music playing. This is the type of stuff you
send your girlfriend or wife after you've been
caught staring at other women :))

Selma,
My wife and girlfriend are not going to catch me
staring at another women or man for that matter. When
I am with a women, I give her my 100% undivided
attention. That makes me a feminist, I guess.

Take it from an old fisherman that the secret to
successful fishing is to:
1) Go to where the fishes are
2) Use the right bait
3) Pay attention to the nibbling

When you go out looking for a real fighter like a
sailfish, AND follow the above, you will return with a
sailfish. Else, you become a member of the "catch and
release" society.

As for "woodlands and Yanni-music playing," some of us
chose to live that way. Others are forced to live in
the pollution heartland and then make noises that they
developed rare diseases.

Once again, since I am a follower of the message in
"The Dash," no one is going to catch me inattentive to
whats around and whats available to me.

Mervyn3.0





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[Gabriel de Figueiredo]

--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha"

Post by Frederick &quot;FN&quot; Noronha
At the end of the day, we all are what we accept we
are.
Yeah, marriage and pregnancy (not for men... till
date, at least ...
wonder what happens when cloning comes!) do shape
our lives in
unimaginable ways. As a fairly hands-on babysitting
dad (till now), I
can afford to say that. Instead of complaining about
what we are not,
and what we wanted to be, I'd say just go on living
life.

Right. As one author put it in the editorial of a
computer magazine aeons ago, "if you're not a
millionaire by the time you're 25, you'll never be.
So take time to smell the flowers, fly kites with the
kids and enjoy every living moment with your loved
ones". I'd add to it, if you don't have a backyard,
plant a few pots and watch the flowers grow. Relax,
sit back and listen to the birds.

BTW, the art of "listening to nature" was taught to us
by the very innovative kindergarten teacher, popularly
known then as "Professora Mait?", in the pre- and
immediate post- "liberation" days (the school,
situated at Miramar, was dismantled by the Indian
authorities in Feb/March 1962, for reasons I still do
not know). After getting married, she used to live
opposite Azad Maidan.

Cheers,

Gabriel.

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[Sunith Velho]

Hi Roland,

Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and
calculating(more so than most men!)
in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or
clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that!

Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family
who is "telling it as he sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.

Regards
Sunith

Roland writes:

She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical
for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.

When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the
lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying "dad, you are a
racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.". He on the
other hand, will immediately butt in saying "dad is just telling it as
he sees it.".

[Mario Goveia]

Post by Roland Francis
She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little
too too logical for a woman but defintely
politically correct and blah blah, blah,
just like the majority of the fairer species.
When I rant at home about the driving habits of
the Chinese or the lack of family values of the
West Indians or the pronunciations of the
Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying
"dad, you are a racist, dad you are too old, or
dad you're out of it.". He on the other hand,
will immediately butt in saying "dad is just
telling it as he sees it.
Contrary to your opinion, I think women are
extremely logical and calculating (more so than
most men!) in most matters, except when these
involve their spouses/boyfriends or clothes. You
daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn
that!
Also from your post it seems like you are not the
only one in your family who is "telling it as he
sees it", your daughter has inherited his trait
too.

Mario observes:
Thank God for Victoria Francis who obviously has the
common sense to recognize and speak out against her
father's apparent penchant for gratuitous stereotyping
- "fairer" species [???], driving habits of the
Chinese [???], the lack of family values of the West
Indians [???], the pronunciations of the Filipinos
[???] - whereas the other acorn seems to have fallen
much closer to the tree.
"Telling it as he sees it?" I know several Chinese,
West Indian and Filipino immigrants in the US and
cannot recognize any one of these stereotypes.

[Aristo]

Hi Selma & Cornel,

I have not been following this thread in its entirety, but this one
caught my eye. I claim no expert knowledge about the history of the
semantics of racial group terminologies, but I have a few thoughts on
today's usage. I don't see the need to invent any new words. As you
may have noticed, I have used the word "Black" instead of
"African-XXXXX" before and I do so frequently, as I am not a stickler
for political correctness. I even use the word "Chinky" while speaking
instead of "Oriental" or "Asian".

Now while "Black" is not considered derogatory by all, "Chinky" is
considered by them as equal to the term "Nigger". But as usual, a
fellow Chinky can use the term. Note that "Oriental" & "Asian" does
not include the Chinky-eyed people of Hawaii while "Asian" obviously
includes non-Chinky races.

Now I don't see any reason why we shouldn't call a fig a fig (the word
"spade" replaced for obvious reasons!). Both, "Black" and "Chinky"
refer to PHYSICAL characteristics rather than the REGIONAL roots that
their politically correct counterparts refer to (which are not
neccessarily correct). Why should a Black feel insecure about his or
her skin colour, or a Chinky about the shape of his or her eyes? My
exception is to the MANNER or CONTEXT in which the words are used. If
it is used in a derogatory sense, then I protest. In fact, even their
politically correct counterparts can be used derogatorily, which I
would then take exception to, especially when prefixed with that
horrible word "THESE"! Eg. "these" African-Americans, "these"
Orientals, and my latest favorite: "these" Bharats!

I hope to see a future bigotless generation where we wouldn't have any
qualms or insecurities about the semantics of racial or ethnic group
terminologies. In fact, I am already starting to see it.

Cheers,
Aristo.

On 11/1/06, Carvalho <elisabeth_car at yahoo.com> wrote:

.... I looked up the word "negro" at Wikipedia and indeed

it is noted as archaic and having a negative
connotation. Yet, in the US, the word is used without
prejudice, such as in the United Negro College, negro
art, or he is a "fine negro man"

....I have yet to come across an alternative to the word,

which unfortunately has its origins in its latin
genesis meaning "black". In America, "blacks" is an
acceptable term but I have always found the term
unacceptable and have refrained from using it. I also
refrain from calling them Africans because Africa
consists of Arabs, Semites, and any other number of
races which are not "negroid" genetically.

....So now I am on a quest to find the right word.

However, I know two words I have to delete from my
vocabulary "negro" and "madrassi". Any suggestions to
alternatives are welcome :))

[Carvalho]

It was Khalil Gibran who wrote:

"You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which
you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make
them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with
yesterday."

On Goanet we get to interact not just with Goans
dispersed all over the world but also get a glimpse
into how the three generations of Goans have panned
out.

There is the Gilbert generation.
There is the Cecil, Frederick and I, generation
And then there is the Aristo and Sunnith generation

The first generation looks back with nostalgia to a
Goa that was and often reminisces about where it all
went to so.

The generation in the middle is old enough to know
that Pandora's box has been opened and a myriad ills
have escaped, but young enough to believe that
Pandora's last gift was the box of hope and we guard
that hope closely to our hearts, even if we do it with
slightly jaded eyes.

And then there are the Sunnits and Aristos of Goa.
Their eyes burning with desire for change, their heads
held high in pride, their arrows of hope darting
defiantly into the world. If they are representative
of what Goa has borne fruit too, then she has done not
just a fine job but a phenomenal one and we can look
to the future with hope indeed.

Selma
------------------------






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[Carvalho]

Dear Roland,

Even if you insist that the Frederick generation
doesn't know what they are talking about (haha got you
there), it is very pessimistic to hope that the fires
that burn within the Sunnith and Aristos of Goa should
extinguish themselves.

This is very typical of your generation Roland to
assume that Daddy has bought and paid for every
succeeding generation. Do you think this generation
has been twiddling their thumbs while they wait for a
quirk of fate to bestow greatness on them? Let me tell
you how difficult their life is. They have to study
from sun-up to sunset if they hope to secure a seat in
a half-decent college. Many have been known to endure
anxiety, depression, nervous break-downs and even
suicide brought on by the stress of exams.

Once they get out of those colleges they have to
compete with brilliant minds all over India to secure
a half-decent job in a half-decent multinational or
risk being left on the shelf to be employed by some
third rate Indian manufacturing plant.

Entry level jobs still pay a pittance, barely able to
cover their bar tab, rent and transport. They have to
live in pigeon-holes in Indian metropolises, travel to
obscure parts of India usually by that contraption
called Indian Rail, put up in roach motels and eat
food guaranteed to give Montezuma a run for his money.
Please don't think anyone is handing out anything to
the Indians of today. They earn every bit of it.

Selma
-------------------------------------

Post by Roland Francis
We are too young to wax nostalgic about 'Portuguese
days', mature
enough to have understood and looked up to the
achievements of Frank
Moraes and Julio Ribeiro, old enough to know that
the Selma generation
don't know what they are talking about and
experienced enough to know
that the bright fires of the Sunith and Aristo
generation will flicker
and die out in self-consumption because someone else
lit them.

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