Discussion:
My one point agenda
(too old to reply)
anand virgincar
2008-01-25 13:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

I guess it is about time I make my intentions in making my
presence felt on Goanet clear :

1) I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over
the last few years is the most corrupt and irresponsible
goverment to have been in power since Goa's liberation
( which I think in itself was a mistake...the anti-portuguese
lobby are welcome to criticise me on that "anti-national"
statement...but I don't really care )
My conviction about the quality ( or lack of it ) of the
Congress goverment's governance in Goa is backed by
clear factual and statistical data from "inside" sources
within the administration ( and it will need similar factual
data to make me change my stance )
So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this vile
goverment stat ( for non-medico's , that means as soon
as humanely possible )

2) I do not agree that these "people's movements "
are the long term solution for Goa's ills.The conflicts
between these various agitationaries ( and the ease
with which the Congress corrupticians are able to purchase
their loyalties ) are such that we will be wasting all our
valuable time and resources and ending up at square one.
I thought there was a golden opportunity at the last
assembly elections to get even 1 or 2 individuals who
did not need any money or fame from the involvement
in Goan politics.I spent several hours and a lot of my
limited financial resources, speaking long distance to
certain " valiant,forthright and amazingly far-sighted "
individuals who were in a position to "convene" their
"apolitical" colleagues in the hope that they would grab this
chance to do something for Goa other than making empty
speeches and accepting awards.I had that time promised
my support ( and that of my friends and colleagues ) to
these " V , F and amazingly F-S " chaps that we would even
back them if he/they contested against the vile Manohar
Parrikar in the Panaji constituency.
Not only have these "V, F and amazingly F-S " persons
missed the boat,they have been bought out lock,stock and
barrel by the Congress ( It is blatantly obvious now, if you
look at Rajan's recent postings...but was actually very much
evident in the literary efforts of these apolitical snakes in the
grass in the local media even in the build up to the June
assembly elections )
And that is why we need a long term ,stable and responsible
government in Goa....not a process of repeated attacks on the
"Bastille"

3) I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities than
BJP can offer at present ) is the only solution for Goa in the
present circumstances.I am not a blind follower of either Mr
Parrikar or the BJP ( and acceeding to Mervyn-bab's request,
I will happily write a fairly detailed letter on Goanet in the next
day or two pointing out Mr Parrikar's many mistakes as well
as drawbacks )....but it is up to the Pro-Congress presence
on this forum ( and I respect thir right to have their own political
convictions )to convince me otherwise.If they want to retain any
credibility,they should likewise point out the "rare" errors made
by the Congress.


And finally,in passing, to Frederick-bab, whose kind words have
triggered this posting :
a)I did not phone you to protest about my love for "Goa "...I
profess it ( and it superceedes all my support for any political
party or inidividual politician in Goa)
b) I am not part of any group ( and I am not aware if Yogesh is )
But I will not hesitate to take a swipe at anyone who tries to
propagate obviously false " pro-bjp " or "anti-congress" agenda.
Read that line again to ingest it.
In fact, if Digamber Kamat develops a strong enough spine ( at
present he appears to lack a spinal cord entirely,apart from a
coccyx which has been at the receiving end of Sonia-madam's
shoes ),i will gladlythrow my weight behind him.
c) Last,but certainly not the least, in context of your mailing,
using your logic ( and I am ,perhaps , generous to term it so ),
is your own strident tirade against Manohar Parrikar ,not just on
this forum but many others you have access to ...and not just
since my entry into this forum but over the years, is your one-point
agenda calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one
genuine threat to the rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corrupt
and irresponsible government to ever rule over Goa ?

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )







_________________________________________________________________
Share what Santa brought you
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Philip Thomas
2008-01-27 06:12:19 UTC
Permalink
<I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is
the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since
Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this
vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer
at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda
calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the
rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to
ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]

This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the
usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But
seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas
intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the
accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,
party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic
perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul
and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.

Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in
fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in
power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's
efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external
socio-political forces.

Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it
will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.
Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if
required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa
will be thinking deeply about that.
anand virgincar
2008-01-27 10:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear Philip-bab,

It is indeed a pleasure to respond to your posting ( and I mean that with
genuine sincerity and not a hint of the satirical tone I have adopted in
many a previous message to Goanet )
You have made some entirely valid points without engaging in empty
rheotoric and / or crude combativeness. I have been looking forward
eagerly to such a reply so that I can carry my discussion onwards.

1) Regarding the subject heading , it was triggered by Frederick-bab's
charge that I have a one point agenda . I agree with you that " one
point agenda's are usually marked by tunnel vision and accompanying
blindspots " and thank you in the same breath for perhaps giving me the
benefit of doubt and including the word " usually ". My long term agenda
is also to identify the faults in our system and prevent backsliding. But ,
I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is to have a stable and
responsible goverment in place . That , I am absolutely convinced about.
This compels me to be " politics centric " but I refute the contention
that I am hampered by either " tunnel vision " or " blindspots ". I have
already made it clear in previous postings that I would happily support
any political party or politician who can provide good governance for Goa.
Under the present political circumstances , my whole hearted support
is for a Manohar Parrikar led government.

2) With respect to your second point , I am under no illusion that I
am in a position to greatly influence the change of guard in Goan
politics. It is going to require a concerted effort by Goan people
irrespective of their background to achieve this ( particularly , as
you astutely point out , unlike in a true democracy , central
government interference often intervenes ,sometimes in a highly
unconstitutional manner as our Governor has demonstrated vividly ).
We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to control
the fate of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of
the Goan people is necessary.

3) And to finish off , the most important issue you have raised...
that about the fear of communalism from the " Hindutva " angle.
This is a genuine concern for many moderate's irrespective of
their religious affiliation,but particularly for non Hindu's.
We will all , I am certain , be discussing this in great detail over
the coming days. I will restrict myself at present to a few brief
observations:
a) I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away
from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily
on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi
did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections ,
at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He
won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more
than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever
that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar
have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress
propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response
I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely
to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of
the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly
obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of
different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).


And in passing , with reference to your comment regarding the
oft repeated " lesser of two evils " and assuming you are alluding
to the communalism v/s corruption business ....it is obvious to
all persons who take a tunnel-less vision view that at least as far
as Goa is conerned the Congress policies are sowing the seeds of
stress between communities as much if not more than the BJP.
( That statement , Philip-bab is going to raise another storm in the
Goanet teacup....but I would love to get involved in it provided I
am in the company of intellectuals like you ....once again , that is
a honest and sincere compliment )

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )
From: phlp_thms at hotmail.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:42:19 +0530> Subject: [Goanet] My one point agenda> > <I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is> the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since> Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this> vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government> ( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer> at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda> calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the> rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to> ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]> > This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the> usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But> seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas> intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the> accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,> party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic> perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul> and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.> > Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in> fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in> power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's> efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external> socio-political forces.> > Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it> will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.> Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if> required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa> will be thinking deeply about that.> >
_________________________________________________________________
Who's friends with who and co-starred in what?
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-27 10:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear Philip-bab,

It is indeed a pleasure to respond to your posting ( and I mean that with
genuine sincerity and not a hint of the satirical tone I have adopted in
many a previous message to Goanet )
You have made some entirely valid points without engaging in empty
rheotoric and / or crude combativeness. I have been looking forward
eagerly to such a reply so that I can carry my discussion onwards.

1) Regarding the subject heading , it was triggered by Frederick-bab's
charge that I have a one point agenda . I agree with you that " one
point agenda's are usually marked by tunnel vision and accompanying
blindspots " and thank you in the same breath for perhaps giving me the
benefit of doubt and including the word " usually ". My long term agenda
is also to identify the faults in our system and prevent backsliding. But ,
I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is to have a stable and
responsible goverment in place . That , I am absolutely convinced about.
This compels me to be " politics centric " but I refute the contention
that I am hampered by either " tunnel vision " or " blindspots ". I have
already made it clear in previous postings that I would happily support
any political party or politician who can provide good governance for Goa.
Under the present political circumstances , my whole hearted support
is for a Manohar Parrikar led government.

2) With respect to your second point , I am under no illusion that I
am in a position to greatly influence the change of guard in Goan
politics. It is going to require a concerted effort by Goan people
irrespective of their background to achieve this ( particularly , as
you astutely point out , unlike in a true democracy , central
government interference often intervenes ,sometimes in a highly
unconstitutional manner as our Governor has demonstrated vividly ).
We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to control
the fate of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of
the Goan people is necessary.

3) And to finish off , the most important issue you have raised...
that about the fear of communalism from the " Hindutva " angle.
This is a genuine concern for many moderate's irrespective of
their religious affiliation,but particularly for non Hindu's.
We will all , I am certain , be discussing this in great detail over
the coming days. I will restrict myself at present to a few brief
observations:
a) I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away
from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily
on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi
did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections ,
at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He
won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more
than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever
that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar
have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress
propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response
I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely
to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of
the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly
obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of
different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).


And in passing , with reference to your comment regarding the
oft repeated " lesser of two evils " and assuming you are alluding
to the communalism v/s corruption business ....it is obvious to
all persons who take a tunnel-less vision view that at least as far
as Goa is conerned the Congress policies are sowing the seeds of
stress between communities as much if not more than the BJP.
( That statement , Philip-bab is going to raise another storm in the
Goanet teacup....but I would love to get involved in it provided I
am in the company of intellectuals like you ....once again , that is
a honest and sincere compliment )

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )
From: phlp_thms at hotmail.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:42:19 +0530> Subject: [Goanet] My one point agenda> > <I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is> the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since> Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this> vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government> ( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer> at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda> calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the> rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to> ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]> > This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the> usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But> seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas> intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the> accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,> party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic> perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul> and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.> > Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in> fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in> power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's> efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external> socio-political forces.> > Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it> will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.> Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if> required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa> will be thinking deeply about that.> >
_________________________________________________________________
Who's friends with who and co-starred in what?
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-27 10:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear Philip-bab,

It is indeed a pleasure to respond to your posting ( and I mean that with
genuine sincerity and not a hint of the satirical tone I have adopted in
many a previous message to Goanet )
You have made some entirely valid points without engaging in empty
rheotoric and / or crude combativeness. I have been looking forward
eagerly to such a reply so that I can carry my discussion onwards.

1) Regarding the subject heading , it was triggered by Frederick-bab's
charge that I have a one point agenda . I agree with you that " one
point agenda's are usually marked by tunnel vision and accompanying
blindspots " and thank you in the same breath for perhaps giving me the
benefit of doubt and including the word " usually ". My long term agenda
is also to identify the faults in our system and prevent backsliding. But ,
I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is to have a stable and
responsible goverment in place . That , I am absolutely convinced about.
This compels me to be " politics centric " but I refute the contention
that I am hampered by either " tunnel vision " or " blindspots ". I have
already made it clear in previous postings that I would happily support
any political party or politician who can provide good governance for Goa.
Under the present political circumstances , my whole hearted support
is for a Manohar Parrikar led government.

2) With respect to your second point , I am under no illusion that I
am in a position to greatly influence the change of guard in Goan
politics. It is going to require a concerted effort by Goan people
irrespective of their background to achieve this ( particularly , as
you astutely point out , unlike in a true democracy , central
government interference often intervenes ,sometimes in a highly
unconstitutional manner as our Governor has demonstrated vividly ).
We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to control
the fate of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of
the Goan people is necessary.

3) And to finish off , the most important issue you have raised...
that about the fear of communalism from the " Hindutva " angle.
This is a genuine concern for many moderate's irrespective of
their religious affiliation,but particularly for non Hindu's.
We will all , I am certain , be discussing this in great detail over
the coming days. I will restrict myself at present to a few brief
observations:
a) I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away
from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily
on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi
did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections ,
at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He
won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more
than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever
that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar
have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress
propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response
I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely
to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of
the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly
obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of
different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).


And in passing , with reference to your comment regarding the
oft repeated " lesser of two evils " and assuming you are alluding
to the communalism v/s corruption business ....it is obvious to
all persons who take a tunnel-less vision view that at least as far
as Goa is conerned the Congress policies are sowing the seeds of
stress between communities as much if not more than the BJP.
( That statement , Philip-bab is going to raise another storm in the
Goanet teacup....but I would love to get involved in it provided I
am in the company of intellectuals like you ....once again , that is
a honest and sincere compliment )

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )
From: phlp_thms at hotmail.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:42:19 +0530> Subject: [Goanet] My one point agenda> > <I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is> the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since> Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this> vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government> ( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer> at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda> calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the> rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to> ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]> > This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the> usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But> seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas> intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the> accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,> party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic> perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul> and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.> > Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in> fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in> power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's> efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external> socio-political forces.> > Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it> will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.> Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if> required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa> will be thinking deeply about that.> >
_________________________________________________________________
Who's friends with who and co-starred in what?
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-27 10:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear Philip-bab,

It is indeed a pleasure to respond to your posting ( and I mean that with
genuine sincerity and not a hint of the satirical tone I have adopted in
many a previous message to Goanet )
You have made some entirely valid points without engaging in empty
rheotoric and / or crude combativeness. I have been looking forward
eagerly to such a reply so that I can carry my discussion onwards.

1) Regarding the subject heading , it was triggered by Frederick-bab's
charge that I have a one point agenda . I agree with you that " one
point agenda's are usually marked by tunnel vision and accompanying
blindspots " and thank you in the same breath for perhaps giving me the
benefit of doubt and including the word " usually ". My long term agenda
is also to identify the faults in our system and prevent backsliding. But ,
I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is to have a stable and
responsible goverment in place . That , I am absolutely convinced about.
This compels me to be " politics centric " but I refute the contention
that I am hampered by either " tunnel vision " or " blindspots ". I have
already made it clear in previous postings that I would happily support
any political party or politician who can provide good governance for Goa.
Under the present political circumstances , my whole hearted support
is for a Manohar Parrikar led government.

2) With respect to your second point , I am under no illusion that I
am in a position to greatly influence the change of guard in Goan
politics. It is going to require a concerted effort by Goan people
irrespective of their background to achieve this ( particularly , as
you astutely point out , unlike in a true democracy , central
government interference often intervenes ,sometimes in a highly
unconstitutional manner as our Governor has demonstrated vividly ).
We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to control
the fate of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of
the Goan people is necessary.

3) And to finish off , the most important issue you have raised...
that about the fear of communalism from the " Hindutva " angle.
This is a genuine concern for many moderate's irrespective of
their religious affiliation,but particularly for non Hindu's.
We will all , I am certain , be discussing this in great detail over
the coming days. I will restrict myself at present to a few brief
observations:
a) I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away
from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily
on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi
did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections ,
at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He
won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more
than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever
that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar
have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress
propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response
I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely
to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of
the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly
obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of
different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).


And in passing , with reference to your comment regarding the
oft repeated " lesser of two evils " and assuming you are alluding
to the communalism v/s corruption business ....it is obvious to
all persons who take a tunnel-less vision view that at least as far
as Goa is conerned the Congress policies are sowing the seeds of
stress between communities as much if not more than the BJP.
( That statement , Philip-bab is going to raise another storm in the
Goanet teacup....but I would love to get involved in it provided I
am in the company of intellectuals like you ....once again , that is
a honest and sincere compliment )

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )
From: phlp_thms at hotmail.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:42:19 +0530> Subject: [Goanet] My one point agenda> > <I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is> the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since> Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this> vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government> ( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer> at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda> calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the> rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to> ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]> > This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the> usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But> seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas> intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the> accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,> party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic> perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul> and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.> > Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in> fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in> power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's> efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external> socio-political forces.> > Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it> will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.> Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if> required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa> will be thinking deeply about that.> >
_________________________________________________________________
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anand virgincar
2008-01-27 10:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear Philip-bab,

It is indeed a pleasure to respond to your posting ( and I mean that with
genuine sincerity and not a hint of the satirical tone I have adopted in
many a previous message to Goanet )
You have made some entirely valid points without engaging in empty
rheotoric and / or crude combativeness. I have been looking forward
eagerly to such a reply so that I can carry my discussion onwards.

1) Regarding the subject heading , it was triggered by Frederick-bab's
charge that I have a one point agenda . I agree with you that " one
point agenda's are usually marked by tunnel vision and accompanying
blindspots " and thank you in the same breath for perhaps giving me the
benefit of doubt and including the word " usually ". My long term agenda
is also to identify the faults in our system and prevent backsliding. But ,
I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is to have a stable and
responsible goverment in place . That , I am absolutely convinced about.
This compels me to be " politics centric " but I refute the contention
that I am hampered by either " tunnel vision " or " blindspots ". I have
already made it clear in previous postings that I would happily support
any political party or politician who can provide good governance for Goa.
Under the present political circumstances , my whole hearted support
is for a Manohar Parrikar led government.

2) With respect to your second point , I am under no illusion that I
am in a position to greatly influence the change of guard in Goan
politics. It is going to require a concerted effort by Goan people
irrespective of their background to achieve this ( particularly , as
you astutely point out , unlike in a true democracy , central
government interference often intervenes ,sometimes in a highly
unconstitutional manner as our Governor has demonstrated vividly ).
We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to control
the fate of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of
the Goan people is necessary.

3) And to finish off , the most important issue you have raised...
that about the fear of communalism from the " Hindutva " angle.
This is a genuine concern for many moderate's irrespective of
their religious affiliation,but particularly for non Hindu's.
We will all , I am certain , be discussing this in great detail over
the coming days. I will restrict myself at present to a few brief
observations:
a) I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away
from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily
on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi
did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections ,
at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He
won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more
than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever
that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar
have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress
propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response
I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely
to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of
the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly
obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of
different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).


And in passing , with reference to your comment regarding the
oft repeated " lesser of two evils " and assuming you are alluding
to the communalism v/s corruption business ....it is obvious to
all persons who take a tunnel-less vision view that at least as far
as Goa is conerned the Congress policies are sowing the seeds of
stress between communities as much if not more than the BJP.
( That statement , Philip-bab is going to raise another storm in the
Goanet teacup....but I would love to get involved in it provided I
am in the company of intellectuals like you ....once again , that is
a honest and sincere compliment )

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )
From: phlp_thms at hotmail.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:42:19 +0530> Subject: [Goanet] My one point agenda> > <I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is> the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since> Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this> vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government> ( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer> at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda> calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the> rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to> ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]> > This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the> usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But> seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas> intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the> accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,> party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic> perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul> and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.> > Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in> fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in> power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's> efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external> socio-political forces.> > Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it> will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.> Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if> required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa> will be thinking deeply about that.> >
_________________________________________________________________
Who's friends with who and co-starred in what?
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-27 10:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear Philip-bab,

It is indeed a pleasure to respond to your posting ( and I mean that with
genuine sincerity and not a hint of the satirical tone I have adopted in
many a previous message to Goanet )
You have made some entirely valid points without engaging in empty
rheotoric and / or crude combativeness. I have been looking forward
eagerly to such a reply so that I can carry my discussion onwards.

1) Regarding the subject heading , it was triggered by Frederick-bab's
charge that I have a one point agenda . I agree with you that " one
point agenda's are usually marked by tunnel vision and accompanying
blindspots " and thank you in the same breath for perhaps giving me the
benefit of doubt and including the word " usually ". My long term agenda
is also to identify the faults in our system and prevent backsliding. But ,
I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is to have a stable and
responsible goverment in place . That , I am absolutely convinced about.
This compels me to be " politics centric " but I refute the contention
that I am hampered by either " tunnel vision " or " blindspots ". I have
already made it clear in previous postings that I would happily support
any political party or politician who can provide good governance for Goa.
Under the present political circumstances , my whole hearted support
is for a Manohar Parrikar led government.

2) With respect to your second point , I am under no illusion that I
am in a position to greatly influence the change of guard in Goan
politics. It is going to require a concerted effort by Goan people
irrespective of their background to achieve this ( particularly , as
you astutely point out , unlike in a true democracy , central
government interference often intervenes ,sometimes in a highly
unconstitutional manner as our Governor has demonstrated vividly ).
We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to control
the fate of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of
the Goan people is necessary.

3) And to finish off , the most important issue you have raised...
that about the fear of communalism from the " Hindutva " angle.
This is a genuine concern for many moderate's irrespective of
their religious affiliation,but particularly for non Hindu's.
We will all , I am certain , be discussing this in great detail over
the coming days. I will restrict myself at present to a few brief
observations:
a) I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away
from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily
on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi
did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections ,
at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He
won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more
than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever
that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar
have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress
propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response
I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely
to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of
the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly
obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of
different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).


And in passing , with reference to your comment regarding the
oft repeated " lesser of two evils " and assuming you are alluding
to the communalism v/s corruption business ....it is obvious to
all persons who take a tunnel-less vision view that at least as far
as Goa is conerned the Congress policies are sowing the seeds of
stress between communities as much if not more than the BJP.
( That statement , Philip-bab is going to raise another storm in the
Goanet teacup....but I would love to get involved in it provided I
am in the company of intellectuals like you ....once again , that is
a honest and sincere compliment )

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )
From: phlp_thms at hotmail.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:42:19 +0530> Subject: [Goanet] My one point agenda> > <I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is> the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since> Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this> vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government> ( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer> at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda> calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the> rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to> ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]> > This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the> usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But> seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas> intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the> accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,> party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic> perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul> and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.> > Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in> fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in> power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's> efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external> socio-political forces.> > Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it> will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.> Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if> required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa> will be thinking deeply about that.> >
_________________________________________________________________
Who's friends with who and co-starred in what?
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml
anand virgincar
2008-01-27 10:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear Philip-bab,

It is indeed a pleasure to respond to your posting ( and I mean that with
genuine sincerity and not a hint of the satirical tone I have adopted in
many a previous message to Goanet )
You have made some entirely valid points without engaging in empty
rheotoric and / or crude combativeness. I have been looking forward
eagerly to such a reply so that I can carry my discussion onwards.

1) Regarding the subject heading , it was triggered by Frederick-bab's
charge that I have a one point agenda . I agree with you that " one
point agenda's are usually marked by tunnel vision and accompanying
blindspots " and thank you in the same breath for perhaps giving me the
benefit of doubt and including the word " usually ". My long term agenda
is also to identify the faults in our system and prevent backsliding. But ,
I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is to have a stable and
responsible goverment in place . That , I am absolutely convinced about.
This compels me to be " politics centric " but I refute the contention
that I am hampered by either " tunnel vision " or " blindspots ". I have
already made it clear in previous postings that I would happily support
any political party or politician who can provide good governance for Goa.
Under the present political circumstances , my whole hearted support
is for a Manohar Parrikar led government.

2) With respect to your second point , I am under no illusion that I
am in a position to greatly influence the change of guard in Goan
politics. It is going to require a concerted effort by Goan people
irrespective of their background to achieve this ( particularly , as
you astutely point out , unlike in a true democracy , central
government interference often intervenes ,sometimes in a highly
unconstitutional manner as our Governor has demonstrated vividly ).
We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to control
the fate of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of
the Goan people is necessary.

3) And to finish off , the most important issue you have raised...
that about the fear of communalism from the " Hindutva " angle.
This is a genuine concern for many moderate's irrespective of
their religious affiliation,but particularly for non Hindu's.
We will all , I am certain , be discussing this in great detail over
the coming days. I will restrict myself at present to a few brief
observations:
a) I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away
from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily
on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi
did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections ,
at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He
won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more
than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever
that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar
have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress
propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response
I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely
to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of
the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly
obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of
different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).


And in passing , with reference to your comment regarding the
oft repeated " lesser of two evils " and assuming you are alluding
to the communalism v/s corruption business ....it is obvious to
all persons who take a tunnel-less vision view that at least as far
as Goa is conerned the Congress policies are sowing the seeds of
stress between communities as much if not more than the BJP.
( That statement , Philip-bab is going to raise another storm in the
Goanet teacup....but I would love to get involved in it provided I
am in the company of intellectuals like you ....once again , that is
a honest and sincere compliment )

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )
From: phlp_thms at hotmail.com> To: goanet at lists.goanet.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:42:19 +0530> Subject: [Goanet] My one point agenda> > <I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is> the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since> Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this> vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government> ( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer> at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda> calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the> rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to> ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]> > This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the> usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But> seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas> intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the> accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,> party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic> perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul> and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.> > Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in> fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in> power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's> efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external> socio-political forces.> > Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it> will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.> Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if> required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa> will be thinking deeply about that.> >
_________________________________________________________________
Who's friends with who and co-starred in what?
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml
Edward Desilva
2008-01-27 12:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Anand said:
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat
the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been
blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I
will tackle this in more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab
regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
Reply:
We have had enough of this person via Carmo, now we have 'son of
Carmo' on Goanet talking about Porrikar as if he is the best thing
since sliced bread for Goa.
We are not concerned about his errors, he may be wanted by the
Panjimcars but the rest of Goa does not want RSS.
Wasting time on a loser is not something you think about - do you!

Anand says:
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikelyto
venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because ofthe
demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to
anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in
individual assembly constiuencies ).
Reply:
Than he should have thought twice about bringing the RSS-Hindutvas
thugs from outside Goa during Elections to create mayham in Goa.
Are you saying he did not march the RSS dance in his khakhi shorts and
bamboo stick?
It is too late for him to give up his alliance to the BJP/RSS.
ED.
Philip Thomas
2008-01-28 02:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Anand:

You have covered the ground quite well in your flowery post. So I can be
brief in my response.
1.<My long term agendais also to identify the faults in our system and
prevent backsliding. But ,I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is
to have a stable and responsible goverment in place > It may be better to
invest in the long term agenda upfront. Otherwise there is a danger of
resorting to solutions (like backing MP) which may address the wrong
'problems'.

2.<We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to controlthe fate
of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of the Goan people is
necessary.> Ditto viz the danger of a Type II Error (right solution, wrong
problem).

3.< I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move awayfrom the "
Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavilyon this is not likely
to win them a national election . Even Modidid not use the " Hindutva " card
in the recent Gujarat elections ,at the risk of distancing himself from the
RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be
more than capable of taking serious note about.> The jury is out on this
after the Modi victory. Who is the iron fist and who is the velvet glove
("mask") now will need to be identified.

4. <With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat the "
communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been blown out of
all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in
more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars
errors.> Let's have some conclusive evidence of the former. Your take on the
latter will also be of interest. Cheers.
marshallmendonza
2008-01-29 05:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand Virgincar wrote:

I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections , at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and Manohar Parrikar have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).

Comment:

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election - be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.
2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The was the point that Sema had made.
3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places, where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.
4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-29 12:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Dear Marshall-bab,
Thanks for taking the time to scrutinise and respond to my posting.
Let me take your comments on step by step ( I have edited a few
of your comments without changing what you were saying...this
is simply to make the post shorter lest the moderators reject it
on the count that it is too long ) :

MM says : Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did
not use the Hindutva card .
I say : Dr Anand was not joking . He made a stupid mistake which
he realised within seconds of hitting the send button ( and I am
surprised that you are the only one which picked up this " clinker "
I dropped ). Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).What I was trying to say
is that Modi used it much less than he has done previously.....to
the point that the RSS and VHP were not fully supportive in his
election campaign .

MM says : Prior to Godhra ,the BJP was consistently loosing every
election.
I say : That is incorrect . The BJP has been in power in Gujarat
since March 14 1995 ( which was well before Godhra ) apart from
perhaps October 23 1996 to March 4 1998 when a faction of the
BJP formed the Rashtriya Janata Dal and took temporary charge.
This is however a minor error on your part compared to my much
bigger mistake above .
Having said all that , Godhra ( and the BJP's involvement in it was
shameful and unforgiveable ). If I was in charge , I would punish
every politician even remotely involved in it ( and certainly not elect
any of them again , however good their performance was on the
developement / administrative front )
I hope the Congress supporters on this forum are capable of making
statements like this on the 1984 Sikh riots etc.

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
I say : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

MM says : I do not even remember communalism being an emotive
issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of BJP .
I say : That you do not remember is a personal matter . Differences
between communities in Goa has existed since long before the BJP
came to Goa .The fashionable term " communalism " has been applied
to it much more since the BJP's advent. And I stand by my earlier
statement on this forum , that the Congress is as much if not more
responsible for causing stess between Goan peoples than the BJP.

MM says : One finds postings of hatred/venom/RSS propaganda on
Goanet with blatant disregard for facts and truth ( which is as a
consequence of the brief BJP reign in Goa )
I say : Agree entirely ....except for 2 caveats
a) There are also postings on Goanet expressing hatred/venom/
non-hindu organisation propaganda with blatant disregard for facts
and truth . It is up to persons like you and me to drown their voices.
( I have already made a public deal with Selma-bai on this forum
and will try my best to stick to my half of the deal )
b) All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )

MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any developement
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
I say : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
I say : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

MM says : BJP create an imaginary enemy as Hitler did with the
Jews and then try to polarise communities.
I say : Opposing political groups are doing a much better job
of creating an imaginary " Hindutva " enemy and distancing
moderate and even " mild " Hindus from their non-Hindu
brethren.

MM says : In places where Christians are in large numbers , they
are made out to be the enemy ( false propaganda on the inquisition,
inflammatory VCD etc )
I say : In the context of Goa , BJP will be extremely foolish if they
try to make Christians their enemy . If they do anything to harm
the Christians in Goa , I will be the first to stop supporting them.
With reference to the VCD and propaganda about the inquisition
( whether true or false is immaterial to me ), I feel that was an
extremely stupid error of judgement which hurt the Catholic people
of Goa ( and hopefully there are many more Hindu's like myself who
found it hurtful ).I do not , however , feel that this ( and many
other errors the BJP goverment in Goa made ) were bad enough
to stop good people from all communities in Goa from voting them
back to power ( espescially when the other option is worse )

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
I say : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.
They made extremely stupid mistakes which hurt the minorities
( and Manohar Parrikar was courageous enough to admit this prior
to the June elections ) but they did not do anything even remotely
resembling what happened in Gujarat ( or what happened in 1984 )

MM says : Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fools paradise.
I say : I feel a Manohar Parrikar led BJP goverment ( with a stronger
and non poster-boy Catholic representation in terms of MLA's and
ministries than in the BJP ranks at present ) will provide a better
option for Goa not just in terms of reducing divisiveness between
Goan people , cutting down on the rampant corruption , decreasing
factionalism between MLA's but on every count .
Perhaps I am living in a fools paradise....but then perhaps, I just
possibly may dreaming with my eyes open .


luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )






_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Reena Martins
2008-01-30 08:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by anand virgincar
Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).
Deja vu! Reminds me of the stuff the BJP spokesperson had dished out, when
caught pants down on the Times Now debate.
I was hoping our good doctor would do one better!
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Reena Martins
2008-01-30 08:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by anand virgincar
Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).
Deja vu! Reminds me of the stuff the BJP spokesperson had dished out, when
caught pants down on the Times Now debate.
I was hoping our good doctor would do one better!
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Reena Martins
2008-01-30 08:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by anand virgincar
Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).
Deja vu! Reminds me of the stuff the BJP spokesperson had dished out, when
caught pants down on the Times Now debate.
I was hoping our good doctor would do one better!
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Reena Martins
2008-01-30 08:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by anand virgincar
Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).
Deja vu! Reminds me of the stuff the BJP spokesperson had dished out, when
caught pants down on the Times Now debate.
I was hoping our good doctor would do one better!
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Reena Martins
2008-01-30 08:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by anand virgincar
Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).
Deja vu! Reminds me of the stuff the BJP spokesperson had dished out, when
caught pants down on the Times Now debate.
I was hoping our good doctor would do one better!
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Reena Martins
2008-01-30 08:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by anand virgincar
Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).
Deja vu! Reminds me of the stuff the BJP spokesperson had dished out, when
caught pants down on the Times Now debate.
I was hoping our good doctor would do one better!
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Reena Martins
2008-01-30 08:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by anand virgincar
Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).
Deja vu! Reminds me of the stuff the BJP spokesperson had dished out, when
caught pants down on the Times Now debate.
I was hoping our good doctor would do one better!
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Vinay Natekar
2008-01-30 07:05:47 UTC
Permalink
marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com <mailto:marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com>
wrote :

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the
Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the
newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi
found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he
resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing
of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be
dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the
margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe
that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election -
be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha
elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.



Response

Modi has won this election convincingly in Gujarat without the support
of RSS, VHP or any Hindu organization riding against all odds and
negative propaganda by Indian as well as Foreign media. This victory has
shown it was a people's mandate for his development work done in
Gujarat. One can't ignore the fact that today Gujarat is flourishing
under BJP and Modi's rule with contribution of whopping Rs. 1.03
trillion GDP to the nation. It is one of the most attractive destination
for foreign investment in India.

Gujarat is declared as the best administered state in India. Narendra
Modi has done well in giving clean, effective and progressive Governance
during last seven years with prosperity and infrastructure development.
It is today is free from communal tension and disruptive elements and
jihadis are contained.

The prejudiced media, especially the third grade Tehelka unknowingly
helped Modi. The sensible Gujarati public took the media's slandering
against the pride of Gujarat and stood firmly behind Modi.

The best blessing came from Sonia Gandi's remarks, "Maut ke Saudagar"
was a NO BALL to Modi, and a no ball is always a FREE HIT, modi did not
miss this opportunity to hit the ball above boundry for a SIX. Sonia
Gandi's speech writer (probably some Bollywood film dialogue writer)
proved to be a disaster for Congress.

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.



2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a
divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign
has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing
today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and
RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The
was the point that Sema had made.



Response

It is the plague called Congress which came in Goa by liquidating the
UG party and remained in power by instilling fear in the minds of
minority community by false propaganda against earlier MG and then BJP
to achieve its corrupt intentions. Prior to Congress entry defections,
corruption and scams were non existent in Goa.

Regarding postings on Goanet, I understand this is neutral forum and if
you do not want to be a domain of a particular religion and one
political party everyone should be allowed to express one's opinion
whether you agree to it nor not.

I respect your right to criticise, though many people quite often
indulge in slandering BJP and its supporters by mauling with epithets.



3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by
exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the
BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and
then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where
muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places,
where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the
enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.



Response

This is the propaganda spread by Congress in collaboration with media
and this is their biggest mistake. The Congress party is being trapped
in its own web and losing one by one states in elections.

The Congress always tried to topple the BJP governments in States, any
time it could, and by any means, fair and foul to accomplish its
unworthy objective, the Congress parceled out lot of misinformation and
falsehood about BJP and tries to disseminates it far and wide.





4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they
have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks
otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.



Response

Your above statement resembles a person who has lost coherence and
have been knocked senseless by a dose of abhorrence towards the party
you do not share ideologies. BJP ruled Goa for more than 4 years and
this much time was enough for it to display its Gujarat type Prowess if
it was same as Gujarat BJP. BJP did more for Goa's economy in 4 years
than corrupt Cong in two decades.

This congress would have thrown us out of our homes to make way for
SEZs. And do not forget the constant subversion of constitution by
illegally using Governor and Speaker to carry out constitutional crimes
to dismiss rival Govt and save their own Government in Goa.



Regards

Vinay
marshallmendonza
2008-01-30 09:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Excerpt from last post:

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
IDr Anand says : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

Comment:
In the assembly elections held immediately post Godhra, where communalism was at its peak, the BJP won 120+ seats. However, in the 2004 Lok Sabha elections held 2 years later, when "India Shining"(development) was BJP's plank. the BJP lost 12 LS seats to the Congress, which if translated into assembly seats meant that the Congress actually won in around 96 assembly seats (a comforable majority). Which proves that the electorate did not believe that the BJP worked for development. In the latest elections too, almost every opinion poll predicted a neck to neck race with the BJP winning only marginally. But the last minute communal plank played by Modi tilted the scale and made a big difference. The BJP leadership has realised that only playing to the base instincts of the electorate will help it reap rich dividends.

Dr Anand wrote:
All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )
Comment:
I entirely agree that the BJP does not represent Hinduism nor speak for Hinduism. Hinduism is a much richer religion which believes in assimilating people of all religions unlike the Hindutva practiced by the BJP which is exclusivist.


MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any development
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
Dr Anand says : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

Comment:
Pl refer point 1 above

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
Dr Anand says : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

Comment: All I can say is that you are not abreast with the latest developments taking place in the BJP and out of sync with their thinking.Pl refer to newspapers and newscasts of the last 3-4 days covering the BJP Central Meeting.

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
Dr Anand says : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.

Comment: The BJP whether in Goa or in Gujarat follow the same ideology which is derived from the RSS. I do not know whether you have read M S Golwalkar's book " We or our nationhood defined" or " Brotherhood in saffron". In it he clearly espouses that Muslims, then Christians, then Communists and then secular minded Indians ( read Hindus) are enemies of the nation and should be annihilated or subjudicated. They should expect no rights nor any privileges. They should live at the mercy of the majority Hindu community.
This then is the ideology followed by the BJP everywhere. Wherever the BJP is in power, the minorities are persecuted. Be it Orissa, MP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Chhatisgarh, and even recently in Karnataka. We have enough trailblazers before us. In Goa we had the infamous VCD, the storming of the Archbishops house, the desecration of Fontainhas, the destruction of Braganza Hotel, the stuffing of RSS persons in the police force, the media, the home ministry, etc. Only those who are blind will not see this.

In conclusion, I believe you are a well meaning person. But you need to see the view from the other side to understand its gravity. As the saying goes ' the taste of the pudding is in the eating' . Only when you are able to taste the BJP, then only you will understand the feeling.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
marshallmendonza
2008-01-31 08:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Vinay wrote:

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.

Comment:

Dr Anand, this is precisely the kind of mindset that Selma referred to in anguish which hurt you a lot.Here is a gentlemen gloating over the exra-judicial killing which has been admitted to by the Gujarat Govt before the Supreme Court. It is so easy to brand someone a criminal and then do away with him, especialy if he hails from the muslim community. Not only was Sohrabuddin done away with but even his wife against whom there were no criminal charges and also his friend Prajapati. What stops the BJP from doing this tomorrow in Goa with other minorities? This is not a stray statement. Minorities in India are under attack from the sangh parivar everyday in different parts of the country. Sadly, society in its quest for money and material wants has turned a blind eye. I have yet to hear voices from civil society condemning these attacks. Today minorities, dalits and people from the marginalised are fair game. He who wears the shoes knows where it pinches.


Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-25 13:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

I guess it is about time I make my intentions in making my
presence felt on Goanet clear :

1) I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over
the last few years is the most corrupt and irresponsible
goverment to have been in power since Goa's liberation
( which I think in itself was a mistake...the anti-portuguese
lobby are welcome to criticise me on that "anti-national"
statement...but I don't really care )
My conviction about the quality ( or lack of it ) of the
Congress goverment's governance in Goa is backed by
clear factual and statistical data from "inside" sources
within the administration ( and it will need similar factual
data to make me change my stance )
So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this vile
goverment stat ( for non-medico's , that means as soon
as humanely possible )

2) I do not agree that these "people's movements "
are the long term solution for Goa's ills.The conflicts
between these various agitationaries ( and the ease
with which the Congress corrupticians are able to purchase
their loyalties ) are such that we will be wasting all our
valuable time and resources and ending up at square one.
I thought there was a golden opportunity at the last
assembly elections to get even 1 or 2 individuals who
did not need any money or fame from the involvement
in Goan politics.I spent several hours and a lot of my
limited financial resources, speaking long distance to
certain " valiant,forthright and amazingly far-sighted "
individuals who were in a position to "convene" their
"apolitical" colleagues in the hope that they would grab this
chance to do something for Goa other than making empty
speeches and accepting awards.I had that time promised
my support ( and that of my friends and colleagues ) to
these " V , F and amazingly F-S " chaps that we would even
back them if he/they contested against the vile Manohar
Parrikar in the Panaji constituency.
Not only have these "V, F and amazingly F-S " persons
missed the boat,they have been bought out lock,stock and
barrel by the Congress ( It is blatantly obvious now, if you
look at Rajan's recent postings...but was actually very much
evident in the literary efforts of these apolitical snakes in the
grass in the local media even in the build up to the June
assembly elections )
And that is why we need a long term ,stable and responsible
government in Goa....not a process of repeated attacks on the
"Bastille"

3) I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities than
BJP can offer at present ) is the only solution for Goa in the
present circumstances.I am not a blind follower of either Mr
Parrikar or the BJP ( and acceeding to Mervyn-bab's request,
I will happily write a fairly detailed letter on Goanet in the next
day or two pointing out Mr Parrikar's many mistakes as well
as drawbacks )....but it is up to the Pro-Congress presence
on this forum ( and I respect thir right to have their own political
convictions )to convince me otherwise.If they want to retain any
credibility,they should likewise point out the "rare" errors made
by the Congress.


And finally,in passing, to Frederick-bab, whose kind words have
triggered this posting :
a)I did not phone you to protest about my love for "Goa "...I
profess it ( and it superceedes all my support for any political
party or inidividual politician in Goa)
b) I am not part of any group ( and I am not aware if Yogesh is )
But I will not hesitate to take a swipe at anyone who tries to
propagate obviously false " pro-bjp " or "anti-congress" agenda.
Read that line again to ingest it.
In fact, if Digamber Kamat develops a strong enough spine ( at
present he appears to lack a spinal cord entirely,apart from a
coccyx which has been at the receiving end of Sonia-madam's
shoes ),i will gladlythrow my weight behind him.
c) Last,but certainly not the least, in context of your mailing,
using your logic ( and I am ,perhaps , generous to term it so ),
is your own strident tirade against Manohar Parrikar ,not just on
this forum but many others you have access to ...and not just
since my entry into this forum but over the years, is your one-point
agenda calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one
genuine threat to the rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corrupt
and irresponsible government to ever rule over Goa ?

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )







_________________________________________________________________
Share what Santa brought you
https://www.mycooluncool.com
Philip Thomas
2008-01-27 06:12:19 UTC
Permalink
<I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is
the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since
Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this
vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer
at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda
calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the
rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to
ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]

This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the
usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But
seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas
intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the
accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,
party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic
perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul
and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.

Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in
fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in
power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's
efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external
socio-political forces.

Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it
will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.
Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if
required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa
will be thinking deeply about that.
Edward Desilva
2008-01-27 12:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Anand said:
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat
the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been
blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I
will tackle this in more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab
regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
Reply:
We have had enough of this person via Carmo, now we have 'son of
Carmo' on Goanet talking about Porrikar as if he is the best thing
since sliced bread for Goa.
We are not concerned about his errors, he may be wanted by the
Panjimcars but the rest of Goa does not want RSS.
Wasting time on a loser is not something you think about - do you!

Anand says:
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikelyto
venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because ofthe
demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to
anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in
individual assembly constiuencies ).
Reply:
Than he should have thought twice about bringing the RSS-Hindutvas
thugs from outside Goa during Elections to create mayham in Goa.
Are you saying he did not march the RSS dance in his khakhi shorts and
bamboo stick?
It is too late for him to give up his alliance to the BJP/RSS.
ED.
Philip Thomas
2008-01-28 02:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Anand:

You have covered the ground quite well in your flowery post. So I can be
brief in my response.
1.<My long term agendais also to identify the faults in our system and
prevent backsliding. But ,I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is
to have a stable and responsible goverment in place > It may be better to
invest in the long term agenda upfront. Otherwise there is a danger of
resorting to solutions (like backing MP) which may address the wrong
'problems'.

2.<We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to controlthe fate
of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of the Goan people is
necessary.> Ditto viz the danger of a Type II Error (right solution, wrong
problem).

3.< I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move awayfrom the "
Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavilyon this is not likely
to win them a national election . Even Modidid not use the " Hindutva " card
in the recent Gujarat elections ,at the risk of distancing himself from the
RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be
more than capable of taking serious note about.> The jury is out on this
after the Modi victory. Who is the iron fist and who is the velvet glove
("mask") now will need to be identified.

4. <With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat the "
communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been blown out of
all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in
more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars
errors.> Let's have some conclusive evidence of the former. Your take on the
latter will also be of interest. Cheers.
marshallmendonza
2008-01-29 05:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand Virgincar wrote:

I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections , at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and Manohar Parrikar have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).

Comment:

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election - be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.
2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The was the point that Sema had made.
3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places, where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.
4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-29 12:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Dear Marshall-bab,
Thanks for taking the time to scrutinise and respond to my posting.
Let me take your comments on step by step ( I have edited a few
of your comments without changing what you were saying...this
is simply to make the post shorter lest the moderators reject it
on the count that it is too long ) :

MM says : Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did
not use the Hindutva card .
I say : Dr Anand was not joking . He made a stupid mistake which
he realised within seconds of hitting the send button ( and I am
surprised that you are the only one which picked up this " clinker "
I dropped ). Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).What I was trying to say
is that Modi used it much less than he has done previously.....to
the point that the RSS and VHP were not fully supportive in his
election campaign .

MM says : Prior to Godhra ,the BJP was consistently loosing every
election.
I say : That is incorrect . The BJP has been in power in Gujarat
since March 14 1995 ( which was well before Godhra ) apart from
perhaps October 23 1996 to March 4 1998 when a faction of the
BJP formed the Rashtriya Janata Dal and took temporary charge.
This is however a minor error on your part compared to my much
bigger mistake above .
Having said all that , Godhra ( and the BJP's involvement in it was
shameful and unforgiveable ). If I was in charge , I would punish
every politician even remotely involved in it ( and certainly not elect
any of them again , however good their performance was on the
developement / administrative front )
I hope the Congress supporters on this forum are capable of making
statements like this on the 1984 Sikh riots etc.

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
I say : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

MM says : I do not even remember communalism being an emotive
issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of BJP .
I say : That you do not remember is a personal matter . Differences
between communities in Goa has existed since long before the BJP
came to Goa .The fashionable term " communalism " has been applied
to it much more since the BJP's advent. And I stand by my earlier
statement on this forum , that the Congress is as much if not more
responsible for causing stess between Goan peoples than the BJP.

MM says : One finds postings of hatred/venom/RSS propaganda on
Goanet with blatant disregard for facts and truth ( which is as a
consequence of the brief BJP reign in Goa )
I say : Agree entirely ....except for 2 caveats
a) There are also postings on Goanet expressing hatred/venom/
non-hindu organisation propaganda with blatant disregard for facts
and truth . It is up to persons like you and me to drown their voices.
( I have already made a public deal with Selma-bai on this forum
and will try my best to stick to my half of the deal )
b) All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )

MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any developement
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
I say : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
I say : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

MM says : BJP create an imaginary enemy as Hitler did with the
Jews and then try to polarise communities.
I say : Opposing political groups are doing a much better job
of creating an imaginary " Hindutva " enemy and distancing
moderate and even " mild " Hindus from their non-Hindu
brethren.

MM says : In places where Christians are in large numbers , they
are made out to be the enemy ( false propaganda on the inquisition,
inflammatory VCD etc )
I say : In the context of Goa , BJP will be extremely foolish if they
try to make Christians their enemy . If they do anything to harm
the Christians in Goa , I will be the first to stop supporting them.
With reference to the VCD and propaganda about the inquisition
( whether true or false is immaterial to me ), I feel that was an
extremely stupid error of judgement which hurt the Catholic people
of Goa ( and hopefully there are many more Hindu's like myself who
found it hurtful ).I do not , however , feel that this ( and many
other errors the BJP goverment in Goa made ) were bad enough
to stop good people from all communities in Goa from voting them
back to power ( espescially when the other option is worse )

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
I say : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.
They made extremely stupid mistakes which hurt the minorities
( and Manohar Parrikar was courageous enough to admit this prior
to the June elections ) but they did not do anything even remotely
resembling what happened in Gujarat ( or what happened in 1984 )

MM says : Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fools paradise.
I say : I feel a Manohar Parrikar led BJP goverment ( with a stronger
and non poster-boy Catholic representation in terms of MLA's and
ministries than in the BJP ranks at present ) will provide a better
option for Goa not just in terms of reducing divisiveness between
Goan people , cutting down on the rampant corruption , decreasing
factionalism between MLA's but on every count .
Perhaps I am living in a fools paradise....but then perhaps, I just
possibly may dreaming with my eyes open .


luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )






_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Vinay Natekar
2008-01-30 07:05:47 UTC
Permalink
marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com <mailto:marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com>
wrote :

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the
Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the
newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi
found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he
resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing
of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be
dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the
margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe
that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election -
be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha
elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.



Response

Modi has won this election convincingly in Gujarat without the support
of RSS, VHP or any Hindu organization riding against all odds and
negative propaganda by Indian as well as Foreign media. This victory has
shown it was a people's mandate for his development work done in
Gujarat. One can't ignore the fact that today Gujarat is flourishing
under BJP and Modi's rule with contribution of whopping Rs. 1.03
trillion GDP to the nation. It is one of the most attractive destination
for foreign investment in India.

Gujarat is declared as the best administered state in India. Narendra
Modi has done well in giving clean, effective and progressive Governance
during last seven years with prosperity and infrastructure development.
It is today is free from communal tension and disruptive elements and
jihadis are contained.

The prejudiced media, especially the third grade Tehelka unknowingly
helped Modi. The sensible Gujarati public took the media's slandering
against the pride of Gujarat and stood firmly behind Modi.

The best blessing came from Sonia Gandi's remarks, "Maut ke Saudagar"
was a NO BALL to Modi, and a no ball is always a FREE HIT, modi did not
miss this opportunity to hit the ball above boundry for a SIX. Sonia
Gandi's speech writer (probably some Bollywood film dialogue writer)
proved to be a disaster for Congress.

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.



2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a
divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign
has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing
today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and
RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The
was the point that Sema had made.



Response

It is the plague called Congress which came in Goa by liquidating the
UG party and remained in power by instilling fear in the minds of
minority community by false propaganda against earlier MG and then BJP
to achieve its corrupt intentions. Prior to Congress entry defections,
corruption and scams were non existent in Goa.

Regarding postings on Goanet, I understand this is neutral forum and if
you do not want to be a domain of a particular religion and one
political party everyone should be allowed to express one's opinion
whether you agree to it nor not.

I respect your right to criticise, though many people quite often
indulge in slandering BJP and its supporters by mauling with epithets.



3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by
exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the
BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and
then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where
muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places,
where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the
enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.



Response

This is the propaganda spread by Congress in collaboration with media
and this is their biggest mistake. The Congress party is being trapped
in its own web and losing one by one states in elections.

The Congress always tried to topple the BJP governments in States, any
time it could, and by any means, fair and foul to accomplish its
unworthy objective, the Congress parceled out lot of misinformation and
falsehood about BJP and tries to disseminates it far and wide.





4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they
have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks
otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.



Response

Your above statement resembles a person who has lost coherence and
have been knocked senseless by a dose of abhorrence towards the party
you do not share ideologies. BJP ruled Goa for more than 4 years and
this much time was enough for it to display its Gujarat type Prowess if
it was same as Gujarat BJP. BJP did more for Goa's economy in 4 years
than corrupt Cong in two decades.

This congress would have thrown us out of our homes to make way for
SEZs. And do not forget the constant subversion of constitution by
illegally using Governor and Speaker to carry out constitutional crimes
to dismiss rival Govt and save their own Government in Goa.



Regards

Vinay
marshallmendonza
2008-01-30 09:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Excerpt from last post:

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
IDr Anand says : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

Comment:
In the assembly elections held immediately post Godhra, where communalism was at its peak, the BJP won 120+ seats. However, in the 2004 Lok Sabha elections held 2 years later, when "India Shining"(development) was BJP's plank. the BJP lost 12 LS seats to the Congress, which if translated into assembly seats meant that the Congress actually won in around 96 assembly seats (a comforable majority). Which proves that the electorate did not believe that the BJP worked for development. In the latest elections too, almost every opinion poll predicted a neck to neck race with the BJP winning only marginally. But the last minute communal plank played by Modi tilted the scale and made a big difference. The BJP leadership has realised that only playing to the base instincts of the electorate will help it reap rich dividends.

Dr Anand wrote:
All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )
Comment:
I entirely agree that the BJP does not represent Hinduism nor speak for Hinduism. Hinduism is a much richer religion which believes in assimilating people of all religions unlike the Hindutva practiced by the BJP which is exclusivist.


MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any development
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
Dr Anand says : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

Comment:
Pl refer point 1 above

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
Dr Anand says : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

Comment: All I can say is that you are not abreast with the latest developments taking place in the BJP and out of sync with their thinking.Pl refer to newspapers and newscasts of the last 3-4 days covering the BJP Central Meeting.

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
Dr Anand says : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.

Comment: The BJP whether in Goa or in Gujarat follow the same ideology which is derived from the RSS. I do not know whether you have read M S Golwalkar's book " We or our nationhood defined" or " Brotherhood in saffron". In it he clearly espouses that Muslims, then Christians, then Communists and then secular minded Indians ( read Hindus) are enemies of the nation and should be annihilated or subjudicated. They should expect no rights nor any privileges. They should live at the mercy of the majority Hindu community.
This then is the ideology followed by the BJP everywhere. Wherever the BJP is in power, the minorities are persecuted. Be it Orissa, MP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Chhatisgarh, and even recently in Karnataka. We have enough trailblazers before us. In Goa we had the infamous VCD, the storming of the Archbishops house, the desecration of Fontainhas, the destruction of Braganza Hotel, the stuffing of RSS persons in the police force, the media, the home ministry, etc. Only those who are blind will not see this.

In conclusion, I believe you are a well meaning person. But you need to see the view from the other side to understand its gravity. As the saying goes ' the taste of the pudding is in the eating' . Only when you are able to taste the BJP, then only you will understand the feeling.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
marshallmendonza
2008-01-31 08:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Vinay wrote:

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.

Comment:

Dr Anand, this is precisely the kind of mindset that Selma referred to in anguish which hurt you a lot.Here is a gentlemen gloating over the exra-judicial killing which has been admitted to by the Gujarat Govt before the Supreme Court. It is so easy to brand someone a criminal and then do away with him, especialy if he hails from the muslim community. Not only was Sohrabuddin done away with but even his wife against whom there were no criminal charges and also his friend Prajapati. What stops the BJP from doing this tomorrow in Goa with other minorities? This is not a stray statement. Minorities in India are under attack from the sangh parivar everyday in different parts of the country. Sadly, society in its quest for money and material wants has turned a blind eye. I have yet to hear voices from civil society condemning these attacks. Today minorities, dalits and people from the marginalised are fair game. He who wears the shoes knows where it pinches.


Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-25 13:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

I guess it is about time I make my intentions in making my
presence felt on Goanet clear :

1) I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over
the last few years is the most corrupt and irresponsible
goverment to have been in power since Goa's liberation
( which I think in itself was a mistake...the anti-portuguese
lobby are welcome to criticise me on that "anti-national"
statement...but I don't really care )
My conviction about the quality ( or lack of it ) of the
Congress goverment's governance in Goa is backed by
clear factual and statistical data from "inside" sources
within the administration ( and it will need similar factual
data to make me change my stance )
So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this vile
goverment stat ( for non-medico's , that means as soon
as humanely possible )

2) I do not agree that these "people's movements "
are the long term solution for Goa's ills.The conflicts
between these various agitationaries ( and the ease
with which the Congress corrupticians are able to purchase
their loyalties ) are such that we will be wasting all our
valuable time and resources and ending up at square one.
I thought there was a golden opportunity at the last
assembly elections to get even 1 or 2 individuals who
did not need any money or fame from the involvement
in Goan politics.I spent several hours and a lot of my
limited financial resources, speaking long distance to
certain " valiant,forthright and amazingly far-sighted "
individuals who were in a position to "convene" their
"apolitical" colleagues in the hope that they would grab this
chance to do something for Goa other than making empty
speeches and accepting awards.I had that time promised
my support ( and that of my friends and colleagues ) to
these " V , F and amazingly F-S " chaps that we would even
back them if he/they contested against the vile Manohar
Parrikar in the Panaji constituency.
Not only have these "V, F and amazingly F-S " persons
missed the boat,they have been bought out lock,stock and
barrel by the Congress ( It is blatantly obvious now, if you
look at Rajan's recent postings...but was actually very much
evident in the literary efforts of these apolitical snakes in the
grass in the local media even in the build up to the June
assembly elections )
And that is why we need a long term ,stable and responsible
government in Goa....not a process of repeated attacks on the
"Bastille"

3) I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities than
BJP can offer at present ) is the only solution for Goa in the
present circumstances.I am not a blind follower of either Mr
Parrikar or the BJP ( and acceeding to Mervyn-bab's request,
I will happily write a fairly detailed letter on Goanet in the next
day or two pointing out Mr Parrikar's many mistakes as well
as drawbacks )....but it is up to the Pro-Congress presence
on this forum ( and I respect thir right to have their own political
convictions )to convince me otherwise.If they want to retain any
credibility,they should likewise point out the "rare" errors made
by the Congress.


And finally,in passing, to Frederick-bab, whose kind words have
triggered this posting :
a)I did not phone you to protest about my love for "Goa "...I
profess it ( and it superceedes all my support for any political
party or inidividual politician in Goa)
b) I am not part of any group ( and I am not aware if Yogesh is )
But I will not hesitate to take a swipe at anyone who tries to
propagate obviously false " pro-bjp " or "anti-congress" agenda.
Read that line again to ingest it.
In fact, if Digamber Kamat develops a strong enough spine ( at
present he appears to lack a spinal cord entirely,apart from a
coccyx which has been at the receiving end of Sonia-madam's
shoes ),i will gladlythrow my weight behind him.
c) Last,but certainly not the least, in context of your mailing,
using your logic ( and I am ,perhaps , generous to term it so ),
is your own strident tirade against Manohar Parrikar ,not just on
this forum but many others you have access to ...and not just
since my entry into this forum but over the years, is your one-point
agenda calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one
genuine threat to the rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corrupt
and irresponsible government to ever rule over Goa ?

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )







_________________________________________________________________
Share what Santa brought you
https://www.mycooluncool.com
Philip Thomas
2008-01-27 06:12:19 UTC
Permalink
<I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is
the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since
Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this
vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer
at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda
calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the
rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to
ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]

This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the
usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But
seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas
intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the
accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,
party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic
perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul
and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.

Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in
fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in
power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's
efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external
socio-political forces.

Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it
will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.
Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if
required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa
will be thinking deeply about that.
Edward Desilva
2008-01-27 12:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Anand said:
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat
the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been
blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I
will tackle this in more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab
regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
Reply:
We have had enough of this person via Carmo, now we have 'son of
Carmo' on Goanet talking about Porrikar as if he is the best thing
since sliced bread for Goa.
We are not concerned about his errors, he may be wanted by the
Panjimcars but the rest of Goa does not want RSS.
Wasting time on a loser is not something you think about - do you!

Anand says:
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikelyto
venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because ofthe
demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to
anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in
individual assembly constiuencies ).
Reply:
Than he should have thought twice about bringing the RSS-Hindutvas
thugs from outside Goa during Elections to create mayham in Goa.
Are you saying he did not march the RSS dance in his khakhi shorts and
bamboo stick?
It is too late for him to give up his alliance to the BJP/RSS.
ED.
Philip Thomas
2008-01-28 02:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Anand:

You have covered the ground quite well in your flowery post. So I can be
brief in my response.
1.<My long term agendais also to identify the faults in our system and
prevent backsliding. But ,I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is
to have a stable and responsible goverment in place > It may be better to
invest in the long term agenda upfront. Otherwise there is a danger of
resorting to solutions (like backing MP) which may address the wrong
'problems'.

2.<We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to controlthe fate
of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of the Goan people is
necessary.> Ditto viz the danger of a Type II Error (right solution, wrong
problem).

3.< I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move awayfrom the "
Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavilyon this is not likely
to win them a national election . Even Modidid not use the " Hindutva " card
in the recent Gujarat elections ,at the risk of distancing himself from the
RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be
more than capable of taking serious note about.> The jury is out on this
after the Modi victory. Who is the iron fist and who is the velvet glove
("mask") now will need to be identified.

4. <With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat the "
communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been blown out of
all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in
more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars
errors.> Let's have some conclusive evidence of the former. Your take on the
latter will also be of interest. Cheers.
marshallmendonza
2008-01-29 05:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand Virgincar wrote:

I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections , at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and Manohar Parrikar have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).

Comment:

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election - be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.
2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The was the point that Sema had made.
3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places, where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.
4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-29 12:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Dear Marshall-bab,
Thanks for taking the time to scrutinise and respond to my posting.
Let me take your comments on step by step ( I have edited a few
of your comments without changing what you were saying...this
is simply to make the post shorter lest the moderators reject it
on the count that it is too long ) :

MM says : Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did
not use the Hindutva card .
I say : Dr Anand was not joking . He made a stupid mistake which
he realised within seconds of hitting the send button ( and I am
surprised that you are the only one which picked up this " clinker "
I dropped ). Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).What I was trying to say
is that Modi used it much less than he has done previously.....to
the point that the RSS and VHP were not fully supportive in his
election campaign .

MM says : Prior to Godhra ,the BJP was consistently loosing every
election.
I say : That is incorrect . The BJP has been in power in Gujarat
since March 14 1995 ( which was well before Godhra ) apart from
perhaps October 23 1996 to March 4 1998 when a faction of the
BJP formed the Rashtriya Janata Dal and took temporary charge.
This is however a minor error on your part compared to my much
bigger mistake above .
Having said all that , Godhra ( and the BJP's involvement in it was
shameful and unforgiveable ). If I was in charge , I would punish
every politician even remotely involved in it ( and certainly not elect
any of them again , however good their performance was on the
developement / administrative front )
I hope the Congress supporters on this forum are capable of making
statements like this on the 1984 Sikh riots etc.

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
I say : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

MM says : I do not even remember communalism being an emotive
issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of BJP .
I say : That you do not remember is a personal matter . Differences
between communities in Goa has existed since long before the BJP
came to Goa .The fashionable term " communalism " has been applied
to it much more since the BJP's advent. And I stand by my earlier
statement on this forum , that the Congress is as much if not more
responsible for causing stess between Goan peoples than the BJP.

MM says : One finds postings of hatred/venom/RSS propaganda on
Goanet with blatant disregard for facts and truth ( which is as a
consequence of the brief BJP reign in Goa )
I say : Agree entirely ....except for 2 caveats
a) There are also postings on Goanet expressing hatred/venom/
non-hindu organisation propaganda with blatant disregard for facts
and truth . It is up to persons like you and me to drown their voices.
( I have already made a public deal with Selma-bai on this forum
and will try my best to stick to my half of the deal )
b) All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )

MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any developement
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
I say : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
I say : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

MM says : BJP create an imaginary enemy as Hitler did with the
Jews and then try to polarise communities.
I say : Opposing political groups are doing a much better job
of creating an imaginary " Hindutva " enemy and distancing
moderate and even " mild " Hindus from their non-Hindu
brethren.

MM says : In places where Christians are in large numbers , they
are made out to be the enemy ( false propaganda on the inquisition,
inflammatory VCD etc )
I say : In the context of Goa , BJP will be extremely foolish if they
try to make Christians their enemy . If they do anything to harm
the Christians in Goa , I will be the first to stop supporting them.
With reference to the VCD and propaganda about the inquisition
( whether true or false is immaterial to me ), I feel that was an
extremely stupid error of judgement which hurt the Catholic people
of Goa ( and hopefully there are many more Hindu's like myself who
found it hurtful ).I do not , however , feel that this ( and many
other errors the BJP goverment in Goa made ) were bad enough
to stop good people from all communities in Goa from voting them
back to power ( espescially when the other option is worse )

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
I say : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.
They made extremely stupid mistakes which hurt the minorities
( and Manohar Parrikar was courageous enough to admit this prior
to the June elections ) but they did not do anything even remotely
resembling what happened in Gujarat ( or what happened in 1984 )

MM says : Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fools paradise.
I say : I feel a Manohar Parrikar led BJP goverment ( with a stronger
and non poster-boy Catholic representation in terms of MLA's and
ministries than in the BJP ranks at present ) will provide a better
option for Goa not just in terms of reducing divisiveness between
Goan people , cutting down on the rampant corruption , decreasing
factionalism between MLA's but on every count .
Perhaps I am living in a fools paradise....but then perhaps, I just
possibly may dreaming with my eyes open .


luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )






_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Vinay Natekar
2008-01-30 07:05:47 UTC
Permalink
marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com <mailto:marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com>
wrote :

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the
Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the
newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi
found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he
resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing
of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be
dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the
margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe
that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election -
be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha
elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.



Response

Modi has won this election convincingly in Gujarat without the support
of RSS, VHP or any Hindu organization riding against all odds and
negative propaganda by Indian as well as Foreign media. This victory has
shown it was a people's mandate for his development work done in
Gujarat. One can't ignore the fact that today Gujarat is flourishing
under BJP and Modi's rule with contribution of whopping Rs. 1.03
trillion GDP to the nation. It is one of the most attractive destination
for foreign investment in India.

Gujarat is declared as the best administered state in India. Narendra
Modi has done well in giving clean, effective and progressive Governance
during last seven years with prosperity and infrastructure development.
It is today is free from communal tension and disruptive elements and
jihadis are contained.

The prejudiced media, especially the third grade Tehelka unknowingly
helped Modi. The sensible Gujarati public took the media's slandering
against the pride of Gujarat and stood firmly behind Modi.

The best blessing came from Sonia Gandi's remarks, "Maut ke Saudagar"
was a NO BALL to Modi, and a no ball is always a FREE HIT, modi did not
miss this opportunity to hit the ball above boundry for a SIX. Sonia
Gandi's speech writer (probably some Bollywood film dialogue writer)
proved to be a disaster for Congress.

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.



2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a
divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign
has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing
today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and
RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The
was the point that Sema had made.



Response

It is the plague called Congress which came in Goa by liquidating the
UG party and remained in power by instilling fear in the minds of
minority community by false propaganda against earlier MG and then BJP
to achieve its corrupt intentions. Prior to Congress entry defections,
corruption and scams were non existent in Goa.

Regarding postings on Goanet, I understand this is neutral forum and if
you do not want to be a domain of a particular religion and one
political party everyone should be allowed to express one's opinion
whether you agree to it nor not.

I respect your right to criticise, though many people quite often
indulge in slandering BJP and its supporters by mauling with epithets.



3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by
exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the
BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and
then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where
muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places,
where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the
enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.



Response

This is the propaganda spread by Congress in collaboration with media
and this is their biggest mistake. The Congress party is being trapped
in its own web and losing one by one states in elections.

The Congress always tried to topple the BJP governments in States, any
time it could, and by any means, fair and foul to accomplish its
unworthy objective, the Congress parceled out lot of misinformation and
falsehood about BJP and tries to disseminates it far and wide.





4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they
have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks
otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.



Response

Your above statement resembles a person who has lost coherence and
have been knocked senseless by a dose of abhorrence towards the party
you do not share ideologies. BJP ruled Goa for more than 4 years and
this much time was enough for it to display its Gujarat type Prowess if
it was same as Gujarat BJP. BJP did more for Goa's economy in 4 years
than corrupt Cong in two decades.

This congress would have thrown us out of our homes to make way for
SEZs. And do not forget the constant subversion of constitution by
illegally using Governor and Speaker to carry out constitutional crimes
to dismiss rival Govt and save their own Government in Goa.



Regards

Vinay
marshallmendonza
2008-01-30 09:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Excerpt from last post:

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
IDr Anand says : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

Comment:
In the assembly elections held immediately post Godhra, where communalism was at its peak, the BJP won 120+ seats. However, in the 2004 Lok Sabha elections held 2 years later, when "India Shining"(development) was BJP's plank. the BJP lost 12 LS seats to the Congress, which if translated into assembly seats meant that the Congress actually won in around 96 assembly seats (a comforable majority). Which proves that the electorate did not believe that the BJP worked for development. In the latest elections too, almost every opinion poll predicted a neck to neck race with the BJP winning only marginally. But the last minute communal plank played by Modi tilted the scale and made a big difference. The BJP leadership has realised that only playing to the base instincts of the electorate will help it reap rich dividends.

Dr Anand wrote:
All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )
Comment:
I entirely agree that the BJP does not represent Hinduism nor speak for Hinduism. Hinduism is a much richer religion which believes in assimilating people of all religions unlike the Hindutva practiced by the BJP which is exclusivist.


MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any development
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
Dr Anand says : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

Comment:
Pl refer point 1 above

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
Dr Anand says : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

Comment: All I can say is that you are not abreast with the latest developments taking place in the BJP and out of sync with their thinking.Pl refer to newspapers and newscasts of the last 3-4 days covering the BJP Central Meeting.

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
Dr Anand says : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.

Comment: The BJP whether in Goa or in Gujarat follow the same ideology which is derived from the RSS. I do not know whether you have read M S Golwalkar's book " We or our nationhood defined" or " Brotherhood in saffron". In it he clearly espouses that Muslims, then Christians, then Communists and then secular minded Indians ( read Hindus) are enemies of the nation and should be annihilated or subjudicated. They should expect no rights nor any privileges. They should live at the mercy of the majority Hindu community.
This then is the ideology followed by the BJP everywhere. Wherever the BJP is in power, the minorities are persecuted. Be it Orissa, MP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Chhatisgarh, and even recently in Karnataka. We have enough trailblazers before us. In Goa we had the infamous VCD, the storming of the Archbishops house, the desecration of Fontainhas, the destruction of Braganza Hotel, the stuffing of RSS persons in the police force, the media, the home ministry, etc. Only those who are blind will not see this.

In conclusion, I believe you are a well meaning person. But you need to see the view from the other side to understand its gravity. As the saying goes ' the taste of the pudding is in the eating' . Only when you are able to taste the BJP, then only you will understand the feeling.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
marshallmendonza
2008-01-31 08:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Vinay wrote:

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.

Comment:

Dr Anand, this is precisely the kind of mindset that Selma referred to in anguish which hurt you a lot.Here is a gentlemen gloating over the exra-judicial killing which has been admitted to by the Gujarat Govt before the Supreme Court. It is so easy to brand someone a criminal and then do away with him, especialy if he hails from the muslim community. Not only was Sohrabuddin done away with but even his wife against whom there were no criminal charges and also his friend Prajapati. What stops the BJP from doing this tomorrow in Goa with other minorities? This is not a stray statement. Minorities in India are under attack from the sangh parivar everyday in different parts of the country. Sadly, society in its quest for money and material wants has turned a blind eye. I have yet to hear voices from civil society condemning these attacks. Today minorities, dalits and people from the marginalised are fair game. He who wears the shoes knows where it pinches.


Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-25 13:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

I guess it is about time I make my intentions in making my
presence felt on Goanet clear :

1) I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over
the last few years is the most corrupt and irresponsible
goverment to have been in power since Goa's liberation
( which I think in itself was a mistake...the anti-portuguese
lobby are welcome to criticise me on that "anti-national"
statement...but I don't really care )
My conviction about the quality ( or lack of it ) of the
Congress goverment's governance in Goa is backed by
clear factual and statistical data from "inside" sources
within the administration ( and it will need similar factual
data to make me change my stance )
So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this vile
goverment stat ( for non-medico's , that means as soon
as humanely possible )

2) I do not agree that these "people's movements "
are the long term solution for Goa's ills.The conflicts
between these various agitationaries ( and the ease
with which the Congress corrupticians are able to purchase
their loyalties ) are such that we will be wasting all our
valuable time and resources and ending up at square one.
I thought there was a golden opportunity at the last
assembly elections to get even 1 or 2 individuals who
did not need any money or fame from the involvement
in Goan politics.I spent several hours and a lot of my
limited financial resources, speaking long distance to
certain " valiant,forthright and amazingly far-sighted "
individuals who were in a position to "convene" their
"apolitical" colleagues in the hope that they would grab this
chance to do something for Goa other than making empty
speeches and accepting awards.I had that time promised
my support ( and that of my friends and colleagues ) to
these " V , F and amazingly F-S " chaps that we would even
back them if he/they contested against the vile Manohar
Parrikar in the Panaji constituency.
Not only have these "V, F and amazingly F-S " persons
missed the boat,they have been bought out lock,stock and
barrel by the Congress ( It is blatantly obvious now, if you
look at Rajan's recent postings...but was actually very much
evident in the literary efforts of these apolitical snakes in the
grass in the local media even in the build up to the June
assembly elections )
And that is why we need a long term ,stable and responsible
government in Goa....not a process of repeated attacks on the
"Bastille"

3) I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities than
BJP can offer at present ) is the only solution for Goa in the
present circumstances.I am not a blind follower of either Mr
Parrikar or the BJP ( and acceeding to Mervyn-bab's request,
I will happily write a fairly detailed letter on Goanet in the next
day or two pointing out Mr Parrikar's many mistakes as well
as drawbacks )....but it is up to the Pro-Congress presence
on this forum ( and I respect thir right to have their own political
convictions )to convince me otherwise.If they want to retain any
credibility,they should likewise point out the "rare" errors made
by the Congress.


And finally,in passing, to Frederick-bab, whose kind words have
triggered this posting :
a)I did not phone you to protest about my love for "Goa "...I
profess it ( and it superceedes all my support for any political
party or inidividual politician in Goa)
b) I am not part of any group ( and I am not aware if Yogesh is )
But I will not hesitate to take a swipe at anyone who tries to
propagate obviously false " pro-bjp " or "anti-congress" agenda.
Read that line again to ingest it.
In fact, if Digamber Kamat develops a strong enough spine ( at
present he appears to lack a spinal cord entirely,apart from a
coccyx which has been at the receiving end of Sonia-madam's
shoes ),i will gladlythrow my weight behind him.
c) Last,but certainly not the least, in context of your mailing,
using your logic ( and I am ,perhaps , generous to term it so ),
is your own strident tirade against Manohar Parrikar ,not just on
this forum but many others you have access to ...and not just
since my entry into this forum but over the years, is your one-point
agenda calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one
genuine threat to the rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corrupt
and irresponsible government to ever rule over Goa ?

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )







_________________________________________________________________
Share what Santa brought you
https://www.mycooluncool.com
Philip Thomas
2008-01-27 06:12:19 UTC
Permalink
<I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is
the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since
Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this
vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer
at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda
calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the
rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to
ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]

This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the
usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But
seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas
intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the
accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,
party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic
perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul
and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.

Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in
fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in
power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's
efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external
socio-political forces.

Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it
will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.
Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if
required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa
will be thinking deeply about that.
Edward Desilva
2008-01-27 12:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Anand said:
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat
the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been
blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I
will tackle this in more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab
regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
Reply:
We have had enough of this person via Carmo, now we have 'son of
Carmo' on Goanet talking about Porrikar as if he is the best thing
since sliced bread for Goa.
We are not concerned about his errors, he may be wanted by the
Panjimcars but the rest of Goa does not want RSS.
Wasting time on a loser is not something you think about - do you!

Anand says:
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikelyto
venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because ofthe
demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to
anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in
individual assembly constiuencies ).
Reply:
Than he should have thought twice about bringing the RSS-Hindutvas
thugs from outside Goa during Elections to create mayham in Goa.
Are you saying he did not march the RSS dance in his khakhi shorts and
bamboo stick?
It is too late for him to give up his alliance to the BJP/RSS.
ED.
Philip Thomas
2008-01-28 02:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Anand:

You have covered the ground quite well in your flowery post. So I can be
brief in my response.
1.<My long term agendais also to identify the faults in our system and
prevent backsliding. But ,I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is
to have a stable and responsible goverment in place > It may be better to
invest in the long term agenda upfront. Otherwise there is a danger of
resorting to solutions (like backing MP) which may address the wrong
'problems'.

2.<We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to controlthe fate
of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of the Goan people is
necessary.> Ditto viz the danger of a Type II Error (right solution, wrong
problem).

3.< I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move awayfrom the "
Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavilyon this is not likely
to win them a national election . Even Modidid not use the " Hindutva " card
in the recent Gujarat elections ,at the risk of distancing himself from the
RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be
more than capable of taking serious note about.> The jury is out on this
after the Modi victory. Who is the iron fist and who is the velvet glove
("mask") now will need to be identified.

4. <With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat the "
communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been blown out of
all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in
more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars
errors.> Let's have some conclusive evidence of the former. Your take on the
latter will also be of interest. Cheers.
marshallmendonza
2008-01-29 05:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand Virgincar wrote:

I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections , at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and Manohar Parrikar have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).

Comment:

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election - be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.
2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The was the point that Sema had made.
3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places, where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.
4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-29 12:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Dear Marshall-bab,
Thanks for taking the time to scrutinise and respond to my posting.
Let me take your comments on step by step ( I have edited a few
of your comments without changing what you were saying...this
is simply to make the post shorter lest the moderators reject it
on the count that it is too long ) :

MM says : Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did
not use the Hindutva card .
I say : Dr Anand was not joking . He made a stupid mistake which
he realised within seconds of hitting the send button ( and I am
surprised that you are the only one which picked up this " clinker "
I dropped ). Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).What I was trying to say
is that Modi used it much less than he has done previously.....to
the point that the RSS and VHP were not fully supportive in his
election campaign .

MM says : Prior to Godhra ,the BJP was consistently loosing every
election.
I say : That is incorrect . The BJP has been in power in Gujarat
since March 14 1995 ( which was well before Godhra ) apart from
perhaps October 23 1996 to March 4 1998 when a faction of the
BJP formed the Rashtriya Janata Dal and took temporary charge.
This is however a minor error on your part compared to my much
bigger mistake above .
Having said all that , Godhra ( and the BJP's involvement in it was
shameful and unforgiveable ). If I was in charge , I would punish
every politician even remotely involved in it ( and certainly not elect
any of them again , however good their performance was on the
developement / administrative front )
I hope the Congress supporters on this forum are capable of making
statements like this on the 1984 Sikh riots etc.

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
I say : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

MM says : I do not even remember communalism being an emotive
issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of BJP .
I say : That you do not remember is a personal matter . Differences
between communities in Goa has existed since long before the BJP
came to Goa .The fashionable term " communalism " has been applied
to it much more since the BJP's advent. And I stand by my earlier
statement on this forum , that the Congress is as much if not more
responsible for causing stess between Goan peoples than the BJP.

MM says : One finds postings of hatred/venom/RSS propaganda on
Goanet with blatant disregard for facts and truth ( which is as a
consequence of the brief BJP reign in Goa )
I say : Agree entirely ....except for 2 caveats
a) There are also postings on Goanet expressing hatred/venom/
non-hindu organisation propaganda with blatant disregard for facts
and truth . It is up to persons like you and me to drown their voices.
( I have already made a public deal with Selma-bai on this forum
and will try my best to stick to my half of the deal )
b) All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )

MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any developement
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
I say : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
I say : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

MM says : BJP create an imaginary enemy as Hitler did with the
Jews and then try to polarise communities.
I say : Opposing political groups are doing a much better job
of creating an imaginary " Hindutva " enemy and distancing
moderate and even " mild " Hindus from their non-Hindu
brethren.

MM says : In places where Christians are in large numbers , they
are made out to be the enemy ( false propaganda on the inquisition,
inflammatory VCD etc )
I say : In the context of Goa , BJP will be extremely foolish if they
try to make Christians their enemy . If they do anything to harm
the Christians in Goa , I will be the first to stop supporting them.
With reference to the VCD and propaganda about the inquisition
( whether true or false is immaterial to me ), I feel that was an
extremely stupid error of judgement which hurt the Catholic people
of Goa ( and hopefully there are many more Hindu's like myself who
found it hurtful ).I do not , however , feel that this ( and many
other errors the BJP goverment in Goa made ) were bad enough
to stop good people from all communities in Goa from voting them
back to power ( espescially when the other option is worse )

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
I say : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.
They made extremely stupid mistakes which hurt the minorities
( and Manohar Parrikar was courageous enough to admit this prior
to the June elections ) but they did not do anything even remotely
resembling what happened in Gujarat ( or what happened in 1984 )

MM says : Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fools paradise.
I say : I feel a Manohar Parrikar led BJP goverment ( with a stronger
and non poster-boy Catholic representation in terms of MLA's and
ministries than in the BJP ranks at present ) will provide a better
option for Goa not just in terms of reducing divisiveness between
Goan people , cutting down on the rampant corruption , decreasing
factionalism between MLA's but on every count .
Perhaps I am living in a fools paradise....but then perhaps, I just
possibly may dreaming with my eyes open .


luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )






_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Vinay Natekar
2008-01-30 07:05:47 UTC
Permalink
marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com <mailto:marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com>
wrote :

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the
Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the
newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi
found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he
resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing
of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be
dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the
margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe
that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election -
be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha
elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.



Response

Modi has won this election convincingly in Gujarat without the support
of RSS, VHP or any Hindu organization riding against all odds and
negative propaganda by Indian as well as Foreign media. This victory has
shown it was a people's mandate for his development work done in
Gujarat. One can't ignore the fact that today Gujarat is flourishing
under BJP and Modi's rule with contribution of whopping Rs. 1.03
trillion GDP to the nation. It is one of the most attractive destination
for foreign investment in India.

Gujarat is declared as the best administered state in India. Narendra
Modi has done well in giving clean, effective and progressive Governance
during last seven years with prosperity and infrastructure development.
It is today is free from communal tension and disruptive elements and
jihadis are contained.

The prejudiced media, especially the third grade Tehelka unknowingly
helped Modi. The sensible Gujarati public took the media's slandering
against the pride of Gujarat and stood firmly behind Modi.

The best blessing came from Sonia Gandi's remarks, "Maut ke Saudagar"
was a NO BALL to Modi, and a no ball is always a FREE HIT, modi did not
miss this opportunity to hit the ball above boundry for a SIX. Sonia
Gandi's speech writer (probably some Bollywood film dialogue writer)
proved to be a disaster for Congress.

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.



2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a
divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign
has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing
today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and
RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The
was the point that Sema had made.



Response

It is the plague called Congress which came in Goa by liquidating the
UG party and remained in power by instilling fear in the minds of
minority community by false propaganda against earlier MG and then BJP
to achieve its corrupt intentions. Prior to Congress entry defections,
corruption and scams were non existent in Goa.

Regarding postings on Goanet, I understand this is neutral forum and if
you do not want to be a domain of a particular religion and one
political party everyone should be allowed to express one's opinion
whether you agree to it nor not.

I respect your right to criticise, though many people quite often
indulge in slandering BJP and its supporters by mauling with epithets.



3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by
exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the
BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and
then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where
muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places,
where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the
enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.



Response

This is the propaganda spread by Congress in collaboration with media
and this is their biggest mistake. The Congress party is being trapped
in its own web and losing one by one states in elections.

The Congress always tried to topple the BJP governments in States, any
time it could, and by any means, fair and foul to accomplish its
unworthy objective, the Congress parceled out lot of misinformation and
falsehood about BJP and tries to disseminates it far and wide.





4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they
have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks
otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.



Response

Your above statement resembles a person who has lost coherence and
have been knocked senseless by a dose of abhorrence towards the party
you do not share ideologies. BJP ruled Goa for more than 4 years and
this much time was enough for it to display its Gujarat type Prowess if
it was same as Gujarat BJP. BJP did more for Goa's economy in 4 years
than corrupt Cong in two decades.

This congress would have thrown us out of our homes to make way for
SEZs. And do not forget the constant subversion of constitution by
illegally using Governor and Speaker to carry out constitutional crimes
to dismiss rival Govt and save their own Government in Goa.



Regards

Vinay
marshallmendonza
2008-01-30 09:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Excerpt from last post:

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
IDr Anand says : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

Comment:
In the assembly elections held immediately post Godhra, where communalism was at its peak, the BJP won 120+ seats. However, in the 2004 Lok Sabha elections held 2 years later, when "India Shining"(development) was BJP's plank. the BJP lost 12 LS seats to the Congress, which if translated into assembly seats meant that the Congress actually won in around 96 assembly seats (a comforable majority). Which proves that the electorate did not believe that the BJP worked for development. In the latest elections too, almost every opinion poll predicted a neck to neck race with the BJP winning only marginally. But the last minute communal plank played by Modi tilted the scale and made a big difference. The BJP leadership has realised that only playing to the base instincts of the electorate will help it reap rich dividends.

Dr Anand wrote:
All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )
Comment:
I entirely agree that the BJP does not represent Hinduism nor speak for Hinduism. Hinduism is a much richer religion which believes in assimilating people of all religions unlike the Hindutva practiced by the BJP which is exclusivist.


MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any development
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
Dr Anand says : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

Comment:
Pl refer point 1 above

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
Dr Anand says : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

Comment: All I can say is that you are not abreast with the latest developments taking place in the BJP and out of sync with their thinking.Pl refer to newspapers and newscasts of the last 3-4 days covering the BJP Central Meeting.

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
Dr Anand says : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.

Comment: The BJP whether in Goa or in Gujarat follow the same ideology which is derived from the RSS. I do not know whether you have read M S Golwalkar's book " We or our nationhood defined" or " Brotherhood in saffron". In it he clearly espouses that Muslims, then Christians, then Communists and then secular minded Indians ( read Hindus) are enemies of the nation and should be annihilated or subjudicated. They should expect no rights nor any privileges. They should live at the mercy of the majority Hindu community.
This then is the ideology followed by the BJP everywhere. Wherever the BJP is in power, the minorities are persecuted. Be it Orissa, MP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Chhatisgarh, and even recently in Karnataka. We have enough trailblazers before us. In Goa we had the infamous VCD, the storming of the Archbishops house, the desecration of Fontainhas, the destruction of Braganza Hotel, the stuffing of RSS persons in the police force, the media, the home ministry, etc. Only those who are blind will not see this.

In conclusion, I believe you are a well meaning person. But you need to see the view from the other side to understand its gravity. As the saying goes ' the taste of the pudding is in the eating' . Only when you are able to taste the BJP, then only you will understand the feeling.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
marshallmendonza
2008-01-31 08:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Vinay wrote:

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.

Comment:

Dr Anand, this is precisely the kind of mindset that Selma referred to in anguish which hurt you a lot.Here is a gentlemen gloating over the exra-judicial killing which has been admitted to by the Gujarat Govt before the Supreme Court. It is so easy to brand someone a criminal and then do away with him, especialy if he hails from the muslim community. Not only was Sohrabuddin done away with but even his wife against whom there were no criminal charges and also his friend Prajapati. What stops the BJP from doing this tomorrow in Goa with other minorities? This is not a stray statement. Minorities in India are under attack from the sangh parivar everyday in different parts of the country. Sadly, society in its quest for money and material wants has turned a blind eye. I have yet to hear voices from civil society condemning these attacks. Today minorities, dalits and people from the marginalised are fair game. He who wears the shoes knows where it pinches.


Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-25 13:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

I guess it is about time I make my intentions in making my
presence felt on Goanet clear :

1) I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over
the last few years is the most corrupt and irresponsible
goverment to have been in power since Goa's liberation
( which I think in itself was a mistake...the anti-portuguese
lobby are welcome to criticise me on that "anti-national"
statement...but I don't really care )
My conviction about the quality ( or lack of it ) of the
Congress goverment's governance in Goa is backed by
clear factual and statistical data from "inside" sources
within the administration ( and it will need similar factual
data to make me change my stance )
So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this vile
goverment stat ( for non-medico's , that means as soon
as humanely possible )

2) I do not agree that these "people's movements "
are the long term solution for Goa's ills.The conflicts
between these various agitationaries ( and the ease
with which the Congress corrupticians are able to purchase
their loyalties ) are such that we will be wasting all our
valuable time and resources and ending up at square one.
I thought there was a golden opportunity at the last
assembly elections to get even 1 or 2 individuals who
did not need any money or fame from the involvement
in Goan politics.I spent several hours and a lot of my
limited financial resources, speaking long distance to
certain " valiant,forthright and amazingly far-sighted "
individuals who were in a position to "convene" their
"apolitical" colleagues in the hope that they would grab this
chance to do something for Goa other than making empty
speeches and accepting awards.I had that time promised
my support ( and that of my friends and colleagues ) to
these " V , F and amazingly F-S " chaps that we would even
back them if he/they contested against the vile Manohar
Parrikar in the Panaji constituency.
Not only have these "V, F and amazingly F-S " persons
missed the boat,they have been bought out lock,stock and
barrel by the Congress ( It is blatantly obvious now, if you
look at Rajan's recent postings...but was actually very much
evident in the literary efforts of these apolitical snakes in the
grass in the local media even in the build up to the June
assembly elections )
And that is why we need a long term ,stable and responsible
government in Goa....not a process of repeated attacks on the
"Bastille"

3) I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities than
BJP can offer at present ) is the only solution for Goa in the
present circumstances.I am not a blind follower of either Mr
Parrikar or the BJP ( and acceeding to Mervyn-bab's request,
I will happily write a fairly detailed letter on Goanet in the next
day or two pointing out Mr Parrikar's many mistakes as well
as drawbacks )....but it is up to the Pro-Congress presence
on this forum ( and I respect thir right to have their own political
convictions )to convince me otherwise.If they want to retain any
credibility,they should likewise point out the "rare" errors made
by the Congress.


And finally,in passing, to Frederick-bab, whose kind words have
triggered this posting :
a)I did not phone you to protest about my love for "Goa "...I
profess it ( and it superceedes all my support for any political
party or inidividual politician in Goa)
b) I am not part of any group ( and I am not aware if Yogesh is )
But I will not hesitate to take a swipe at anyone who tries to
propagate obviously false " pro-bjp " or "anti-congress" agenda.
Read that line again to ingest it.
In fact, if Digamber Kamat develops a strong enough spine ( at
present he appears to lack a spinal cord entirely,apart from a
coccyx which has been at the receiving end of Sonia-madam's
shoes ),i will gladlythrow my weight behind him.
c) Last,but certainly not the least, in context of your mailing,
using your logic ( and I am ,perhaps , generous to term it so ),
is your own strident tirade against Manohar Parrikar ,not just on
this forum but many others you have access to ...and not just
since my entry into this forum but over the years, is your one-point
agenda calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one
genuine threat to the rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corrupt
and irresponsible government to ever rule over Goa ?

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )







_________________________________________________________________
Share what Santa brought you
https://www.mycooluncool.com
Philip Thomas
2008-01-27 06:12:19 UTC
Permalink
<I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is
the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since
Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this
vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer
at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda
calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the
rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to
ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]

This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the
usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But
seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas
intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the
accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,
party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic
perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul
and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.

Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in
fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in
power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's
efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external
socio-political forces.

Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it
will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.
Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if
required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa
will be thinking deeply about that.
Edward Desilva
2008-01-27 12:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Anand said:
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat
the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been
blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I
will tackle this in more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab
regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
Reply:
We have had enough of this person via Carmo, now we have 'son of
Carmo' on Goanet talking about Porrikar as if he is the best thing
since sliced bread for Goa.
We are not concerned about his errors, he may be wanted by the
Panjimcars but the rest of Goa does not want RSS.
Wasting time on a loser is not something you think about - do you!

Anand says:
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikelyto
venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because ofthe
demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to
anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in
individual assembly constiuencies ).
Reply:
Than he should have thought twice about bringing the RSS-Hindutvas
thugs from outside Goa during Elections to create mayham in Goa.
Are you saying he did not march the RSS dance in his khakhi shorts and
bamboo stick?
It is too late for him to give up his alliance to the BJP/RSS.
ED.
Philip Thomas
2008-01-28 02:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Anand:

You have covered the ground quite well in your flowery post. So I can be
brief in my response.
1.<My long term agendais also to identify the faults in our system and
prevent backsliding. But ,I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is
to have a stable and responsible goverment in place > It may be better to
invest in the long term agenda upfront. Otherwise there is a danger of
resorting to solutions (like backing MP) which may address the wrong
'problems'.

2.<We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to controlthe fate
of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of the Goan people is
necessary.> Ditto viz the danger of a Type II Error (right solution, wrong
problem).

3.< I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move awayfrom the "
Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavilyon this is not likely
to win them a national election . Even Modidid not use the " Hindutva " card
in the recent Gujarat elections ,at the risk of distancing himself from the
RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be
more than capable of taking serious note about.> The jury is out on this
after the Modi victory. Who is the iron fist and who is the velvet glove
("mask") now will need to be identified.

4. <With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat the "
communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been blown out of
all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in
more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars
errors.> Let's have some conclusive evidence of the former. Your take on the
latter will also be of interest. Cheers.
marshallmendonza
2008-01-29 05:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand Virgincar wrote:

I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections , at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and Manohar Parrikar have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).

Comment:

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election - be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.
2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The was the point that Sema had made.
3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places, where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.
4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-29 12:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Dear Marshall-bab,
Thanks for taking the time to scrutinise and respond to my posting.
Let me take your comments on step by step ( I have edited a few
of your comments without changing what you were saying...this
is simply to make the post shorter lest the moderators reject it
on the count that it is too long ) :

MM says : Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did
not use the Hindutva card .
I say : Dr Anand was not joking . He made a stupid mistake which
he realised within seconds of hitting the send button ( and I am
surprised that you are the only one which picked up this " clinker "
I dropped ). Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).What I was trying to say
is that Modi used it much less than he has done previously.....to
the point that the RSS and VHP were not fully supportive in his
election campaign .

MM says : Prior to Godhra ,the BJP was consistently loosing every
election.
I say : That is incorrect . The BJP has been in power in Gujarat
since March 14 1995 ( which was well before Godhra ) apart from
perhaps October 23 1996 to March 4 1998 when a faction of the
BJP formed the Rashtriya Janata Dal and took temporary charge.
This is however a minor error on your part compared to my much
bigger mistake above .
Having said all that , Godhra ( and the BJP's involvement in it was
shameful and unforgiveable ). If I was in charge , I would punish
every politician even remotely involved in it ( and certainly not elect
any of them again , however good their performance was on the
developement / administrative front )
I hope the Congress supporters on this forum are capable of making
statements like this on the 1984 Sikh riots etc.

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
I say : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

MM says : I do not even remember communalism being an emotive
issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of BJP .
I say : That you do not remember is a personal matter . Differences
between communities in Goa has existed since long before the BJP
came to Goa .The fashionable term " communalism " has been applied
to it much more since the BJP's advent. And I stand by my earlier
statement on this forum , that the Congress is as much if not more
responsible for causing stess between Goan peoples than the BJP.

MM says : One finds postings of hatred/venom/RSS propaganda on
Goanet with blatant disregard for facts and truth ( which is as a
consequence of the brief BJP reign in Goa )
I say : Agree entirely ....except for 2 caveats
a) There are also postings on Goanet expressing hatred/venom/
non-hindu organisation propaganda with blatant disregard for facts
and truth . It is up to persons like you and me to drown their voices.
( I have already made a public deal with Selma-bai on this forum
and will try my best to stick to my half of the deal )
b) All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )

MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any developement
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
I say : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
I say : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

MM says : BJP create an imaginary enemy as Hitler did with the
Jews and then try to polarise communities.
I say : Opposing political groups are doing a much better job
of creating an imaginary " Hindutva " enemy and distancing
moderate and even " mild " Hindus from their non-Hindu
brethren.

MM says : In places where Christians are in large numbers , they
are made out to be the enemy ( false propaganda on the inquisition,
inflammatory VCD etc )
I say : In the context of Goa , BJP will be extremely foolish if they
try to make Christians their enemy . If they do anything to harm
the Christians in Goa , I will be the first to stop supporting them.
With reference to the VCD and propaganda about the inquisition
( whether true or false is immaterial to me ), I feel that was an
extremely stupid error of judgement which hurt the Catholic people
of Goa ( and hopefully there are many more Hindu's like myself who
found it hurtful ).I do not , however , feel that this ( and many
other errors the BJP goverment in Goa made ) were bad enough
to stop good people from all communities in Goa from voting them
back to power ( espescially when the other option is worse )

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
I say : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.
They made extremely stupid mistakes which hurt the minorities
( and Manohar Parrikar was courageous enough to admit this prior
to the June elections ) but they did not do anything even remotely
resembling what happened in Gujarat ( or what happened in 1984 )

MM says : Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fools paradise.
I say : I feel a Manohar Parrikar led BJP goverment ( with a stronger
and non poster-boy Catholic representation in terms of MLA's and
ministries than in the BJP ranks at present ) will provide a better
option for Goa not just in terms of reducing divisiveness between
Goan people , cutting down on the rampant corruption , decreasing
factionalism between MLA's but on every count .
Perhaps I am living in a fools paradise....but then perhaps, I just
possibly may dreaming with my eyes open .


luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )






_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Vinay Natekar
2008-01-30 07:05:47 UTC
Permalink
marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com <mailto:marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com>
wrote :

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the
Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the
newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi
found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he
resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing
of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be
dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the
margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe
that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election -
be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha
elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.



Response

Modi has won this election convincingly in Gujarat without the support
of RSS, VHP or any Hindu organization riding against all odds and
negative propaganda by Indian as well as Foreign media. This victory has
shown it was a people's mandate for his development work done in
Gujarat. One can't ignore the fact that today Gujarat is flourishing
under BJP and Modi's rule with contribution of whopping Rs. 1.03
trillion GDP to the nation. It is one of the most attractive destination
for foreign investment in India.

Gujarat is declared as the best administered state in India. Narendra
Modi has done well in giving clean, effective and progressive Governance
during last seven years with prosperity and infrastructure development.
It is today is free from communal tension and disruptive elements and
jihadis are contained.

The prejudiced media, especially the third grade Tehelka unknowingly
helped Modi. The sensible Gujarati public took the media's slandering
against the pride of Gujarat and stood firmly behind Modi.

The best blessing came from Sonia Gandi's remarks, "Maut ke Saudagar"
was a NO BALL to Modi, and a no ball is always a FREE HIT, modi did not
miss this opportunity to hit the ball above boundry for a SIX. Sonia
Gandi's speech writer (probably some Bollywood film dialogue writer)
proved to be a disaster for Congress.

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.



2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a
divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign
has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing
today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and
RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The
was the point that Sema had made.



Response

It is the plague called Congress which came in Goa by liquidating the
UG party and remained in power by instilling fear in the minds of
minority community by false propaganda against earlier MG and then BJP
to achieve its corrupt intentions. Prior to Congress entry defections,
corruption and scams were non existent in Goa.

Regarding postings on Goanet, I understand this is neutral forum and if
you do not want to be a domain of a particular religion and one
political party everyone should be allowed to express one's opinion
whether you agree to it nor not.

I respect your right to criticise, though many people quite often
indulge in slandering BJP and its supporters by mauling with epithets.



3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by
exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the
BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and
then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where
muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places,
where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the
enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.



Response

This is the propaganda spread by Congress in collaboration with media
and this is their biggest mistake. The Congress party is being trapped
in its own web and losing one by one states in elections.

The Congress always tried to topple the BJP governments in States, any
time it could, and by any means, fair and foul to accomplish its
unworthy objective, the Congress parceled out lot of misinformation and
falsehood about BJP and tries to disseminates it far and wide.





4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they
have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks
otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.



Response

Your above statement resembles a person who has lost coherence and
have been knocked senseless by a dose of abhorrence towards the party
you do not share ideologies. BJP ruled Goa for more than 4 years and
this much time was enough for it to display its Gujarat type Prowess if
it was same as Gujarat BJP. BJP did more for Goa's economy in 4 years
than corrupt Cong in two decades.

This congress would have thrown us out of our homes to make way for
SEZs. And do not forget the constant subversion of constitution by
illegally using Governor and Speaker to carry out constitutional crimes
to dismiss rival Govt and save their own Government in Goa.



Regards

Vinay
marshallmendonza
2008-01-30 09:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Excerpt from last post:

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
IDr Anand says : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

Comment:
In the assembly elections held immediately post Godhra, where communalism was at its peak, the BJP won 120+ seats. However, in the 2004 Lok Sabha elections held 2 years later, when "India Shining"(development) was BJP's plank. the BJP lost 12 LS seats to the Congress, which if translated into assembly seats meant that the Congress actually won in around 96 assembly seats (a comforable majority). Which proves that the electorate did not believe that the BJP worked for development. In the latest elections too, almost every opinion poll predicted a neck to neck race with the BJP winning only marginally. But the last minute communal plank played by Modi tilted the scale and made a big difference. The BJP leadership has realised that only playing to the base instincts of the electorate will help it reap rich dividends.

Dr Anand wrote:
All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )
Comment:
I entirely agree that the BJP does not represent Hinduism nor speak for Hinduism. Hinduism is a much richer religion which believes in assimilating people of all religions unlike the Hindutva practiced by the BJP which is exclusivist.


MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any development
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
Dr Anand says : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

Comment:
Pl refer point 1 above

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
Dr Anand says : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

Comment: All I can say is that you are not abreast with the latest developments taking place in the BJP and out of sync with their thinking.Pl refer to newspapers and newscasts of the last 3-4 days covering the BJP Central Meeting.

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
Dr Anand says : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.

Comment: The BJP whether in Goa or in Gujarat follow the same ideology which is derived from the RSS. I do not know whether you have read M S Golwalkar's book " We or our nationhood defined" or " Brotherhood in saffron". In it he clearly espouses that Muslims, then Christians, then Communists and then secular minded Indians ( read Hindus) are enemies of the nation and should be annihilated or subjudicated. They should expect no rights nor any privileges. They should live at the mercy of the majority Hindu community.
This then is the ideology followed by the BJP everywhere. Wherever the BJP is in power, the minorities are persecuted. Be it Orissa, MP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Chhatisgarh, and even recently in Karnataka. We have enough trailblazers before us. In Goa we had the infamous VCD, the storming of the Archbishops house, the desecration of Fontainhas, the destruction of Braganza Hotel, the stuffing of RSS persons in the police force, the media, the home ministry, etc. Only those who are blind will not see this.

In conclusion, I believe you are a well meaning person. But you need to see the view from the other side to understand its gravity. As the saying goes ' the taste of the pudding is in the eating' . Only when you are able to taste the BJP, then only you will understand the feeling.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
marshallmendonza
2008-01-31 08:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Vinay wrote:

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.

Comment:

Dr Anand, this is precisely the kind of mindset that Selma referred to in anguish which hurt you a lot.Here is a gentlemen gloating over the exra-judicial killing which has been admitted to by the Gujarat Govt before the Supreme Court. It is so easy to brand someone a criminal and then do away with him, especialy if he hails from the muslim community. Not only was Sohrabuddin done away with but even his wife against whom there were no criminal charges and also his friend Prajapati. What stops the BJP from doing this tomorrow in Goa with other minorities? This is not a stray statement. Minorities in India are under attack from the sangh parivar everyday in different parts of the country. Sadly, society in its quest for money and material wants has turned a blind eye. I have yet to hear voices from civil society condemning these attacks. Today minorities, dalits and people from the marginalised are fair game. He who wears the shoes knows where it pinches.


Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-25 13:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

I guess it is about time I make my intentions in making my
presence felt on Goanet clear :

1) I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over
the last few years is the most corrupt and irresponsible
goverment to have been in power since Goa's liberation
( which I think in itself was a mistake...the anti-portuguese
lobby are welcome to criticise me on that "anti-national"
statement...but I don't really care )
My conviction about the quality ( or lack of it ) of the
Congress goverment's governance in Goa is backed by
clear factual and statistical data from "inside" sources
within the administration ( and it will need similar factual
data to make me change my stance )
So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this vile
goverment stat ( for non-medico's , that means as soon
as humanely possible )

2) I do not agree that these "people's movements "
are the long term solution for Goa's ills.The conflicts
between these various agitationaries ( and the ease
with which the Congress corrupticians are able to purchase
their loyalties ) are such that we will be wasting all our
valuable time and resources and ending up at square one.
I thought there was a golden opportunity at the last
assembly elections to get even 1 or 2 individuals who
did not need any money or fame from the involvement
in Goan politics.I spent several hours and a lot of my
limited financial resources, speaking long distance to
certain " valiant,forthright and amazingly far-sighted "
individuals who were in a position to "convene" their
"apolitical" colleagues in the hope that they would grab this
chance to do something for Goa other than making empty
speeches and accepting awards.I had that time promised
my support ( and that of my friends and colleagues ) to
these " V , F and amazingly F-S " chaps that we would even
back them if he/they contested against the vile Manohar
Parrikar in the Panaji constituency.
Not only have these "V, F and amazingly F-S " persons
missed the boat,they have been bought out lock,stock and
barrel by the Congress ( It is blatantly obvious now, if you
look at Rajan's recent postings...but was actually very much
evident in the literary efforts of these apolitical snakes in the
grass in the local media even in the build up to the June
assembly elections )
And that is why we need a long term ,stable and responsible
government in Goa....not a process of repeated attacks on the
"Bastille"

3) I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities than
BJP can offer at present ) is the only solution for Goa in the
present circumstances.I am not a blind follower of either Mr
Parrikar or the BJP ( and acceeding to Mervyn-bab's request,
I will happily write a fairly detailed letter on Goanet in the next
day or two pointing out Mr Parrikar's many mistakes as well
as drawbacks )....but it is up to the Pro-Congress presence
on this forum ( and I respect thir right to have their own political
convictions )to convince me otherwise.If they want to retain any
credibility,they should likewise point out the "rare" errors made
by the Congress.


And finally,in passing, to Frederick-bab, whose kind words have
triggered this posting :
a)I did not phone you to protest about my love for "Goa "...I
profess it ( and it superceedes all my support for any political
party or inidividual politician in Goa)
b) I am not part of any group ( and I am not aware if Yogesh is )
But I will not hesitate to take a swipe at anyone who tries to
propagate obviously false " pro-bjp " or "anti-congress" agenda.
Read that line again to ingest it.
In fact, if Digamber Kamat develops a strong enough spine ( at
present he appears to lack a spinal cord entirely,apart from a
coccyx which has been at the receiving end of Sonia-madam's
shoes ),i will gladlythrow my weight behind him.
c) Last,but certainly not the least, in context of your mailing,
using your logic ( and I am ,perhaps , generous to term it so ),
is your own strident tirade against Manohar Parrikar ,not just on
this forum but many others you have access to ...and not just
since my entry into this forum but over the years, is your one-point
agenda calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one
genuine threat to the rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corrupt
and irresponsible government to ever rule over Goa ?

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )







_________________________________________________________________
Share what Santa brought you
https://www.mycooluncool.com
Philip Thomas
2008-01-27 06:12:19 UTC
Permalink
<I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is
the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since
Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this
vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer
at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda
calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the
rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to
ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]

This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the
usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But
seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas
intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the
accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,
party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic
perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul
and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.

Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in
fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in
power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's
efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external
socio-political forces.

Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it
will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.
Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if
required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa
will be thinking deeply about that.
Edward Desilva
2008-01-27 12:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Anand said:
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat
the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been
blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I
will tackle this in more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab
regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
Reply:
We have had enough of this person via Carmo, now we have 'son of
Carmo' on Goanet talking about Porrikar as if he is the best thing
since sliced bread for Goa.
We are not concerned about his errors, he may be wanted by the
Panjimcars but the rest of Goa does not want RSS.
Wasting time on a loser is not something you think about - do you!

Anand says:
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikelyto
venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because ofthe
demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to
anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in
individual assembly constiuencies ).
Reply:
Than he should have thought twice about bringing the RSS-Hindutvas
thugs from outside Goa during Elections to create mayham in Goa.
Are you saying he did not march the RSS dance in his khakhi shorts and
bamboo stick?
It is too late for him to give up his alliance to the BJP/RSS.
ED.
Philip Thomas
2008-01-28 02:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Anand:

You have covered the ground quite well in your flowery post. So I can be
brief in my response.
1.<My long term agendais also to identify the faults in our system and
prevent backsliding. But ,I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is
to have a stable and responsible goverment in place > It may be better to
invest in the long term agenda upfront. Otherwise there is a danger of
resorting to solutions (like backing MP) which may address the wrong
'problems'.

2.<We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to controlthe fate
of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of the Goan people is
necessary.> Ditto viz the danger of a Type II Error (right solution, wrong
problem).

3.< I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move awayfrom the "
Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavilyon this is not likely
to win them a national election . Even Modidid not use the " Hindutva " card
in the recent Gujarat elections ,at the risk of distancing himself from the
RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be
more than capable of taking serious note about.> The jury is out on this
after the Modi victory. Who is the iron fist and who is the velvet glove
("mask") now will need to be identified.

4. <With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat the "
communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been blown out of
all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in
more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars
errors.> Let's have some conclusive evidence of the former. Your take on the
latter will also be of interest. Cheers.
marshallmendonza
2008-01-29 05:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand Virgincar wrote:

I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections , at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and Manohar Parrikar have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).

Comment:

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election - be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.
2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The was the point that Sema had made.
3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places, where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.
4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-29 12:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Dear Marshall-bab,
Thanks for taking the time to scrutinise and respond to my posting.
Let me take your comments on step by step ( I have edited a few
of your comments without changing what you were saying...this
is simply to make the post shorter lest the moderators reject it
on the count that it is too long ) :

MM says : Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did
not use the Hindutva card .
I say : Dr Anand was not joking . He made a stupid mistake which
he realised within seconds of hitting the send button ( and I am
surprised that you are the only one which picked up this " clinker "
I dropped ). Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).What I was trying to say
is that Modi used it much less than he has done previously.....to
the point that the RSS and VHP were not fully supportive in his
election campaign .

MM says : Prior to Godhra ,the BJP was consistently loosing every
election.
I say : That is incorrect . The BJP has been in power in Gujarat
since March 14 1995 ( which was well before Godhra ) apart from
perhaps October 23 1996 to March 4 1998 when a faction of the
BJP formed the Rashtriya Janata Dal and took temporary charge.
This is however a minor error on your part compared to my much
bigger mistake above .
Having said all that , Godhra ( and the BJP's involvement in it was
shameful and unforgiveable ). If I was in charge , I would punish
every politician even remotely involved in it ( and certainly not elect
any of them again , however good their performance was on the
developement / administrative front )
I hope the Congress supporters on this forum are capable of making
statements like this on the 1984 Sikh riots etc.

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
I say : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

MM says : I do not even remember communalism being an emotive
issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of BJP .
I say : That you do not remember is a personal matter . Differences
between communities in Goa has existed since long before the BJP
came to Goa .The fashionable term " communalism " has been applied
to it much more since the BJP's advent. And I stand by my earlier
statement on this forum , that the Congress is as much if not more
responsible for causing stess between Goan peoples than the BJP.

MM says : One finds postings of hatred/venom/RSS propaganda on
Goanet with blatant disregard for facts and truth ( which is as a
consequence of the brief BJP reign in Goa )
I say : Agree entirely ....except for 2 caveats
a) There are also postings on Goanet expressing hatred/venom/
non-hindu organisation propaganda with blatant disregard for facts
and truth . It is up to persons like you and me to drown their voices.
( I have already made a public deal with Selma-bai on this forum
and will try my best to stick to my half of the deal )
b) All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )

MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any developement
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
I say : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
I say : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

MM says : BJP create an imaginary enemy as Hitler did with the
Jews and then try to polarise communities.
I say : Opposing political groups are doing a much better job
of creating an imaginary " Hindutva " enemy and distancing
moderate and even " mild " Hindus from their non-Hindu
brethren.

MM says : In places where Christians are in large numbers , they
are made out to be the enemy ( false propaganda on the inquisition,
inflammatory VCD etc )
I say : In the context of Goa , BJP will be extremely foolish if they
try to make Christians their enemy . If they do anything to harm
the Christians in Goa , I will be the first to stop supporting them.
With reference to the VCD and propaganda about the inquisition
( whether true or false is immaterial to me ), I feel that was an
extremely stupid error of judgement which hurt the Catholic people
of Goa ( and hopefully there are many more Hindu's like myself who
found it hurtful ).I do not , however , feel that this ( and many
other errors the BJP goverment in Goa made ) were bad enough
to stop good people from all communities in Goa from voting them
back to power ( espescially when the other option is worse )

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
I say : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.
They made extremely stupid mistakes which hurt the minorities
( and Manohar Parrikar was courageous enough to admit this prior
to the June elections ) but they did not do anything even remotely
resembling what happened in Gujarat ( or what happened in 1984 )

MM says : Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fools paradise.
I say : I feel a Manohar Parrikar led BJP goverment ( with a stronger
and non poster-boy Catholic representation in terms of MLA's and
ministries than in the BJP ranks at present ) will provide a better
option for Goa not just in terms of reducing divisiveness between
Goan people , cutting down on the rampant corruption , decreasing
factionalism between MLA's but on every count .
Perhaps I am living in a fools paradise....but then perhaps, I just
possibly may dreaming with my eyes open .


luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )






_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Vinay Natekar
2008-01-30 07:05:47 UTC
Permalink
marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com <mailto:marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com>
wrote :

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the
Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the
newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi
found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he
resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing
of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be
dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the
margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe
that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election -
be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha
elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.



Response

Modi has won this election convincingly in Gujarat without the support
of RSS, VHP or any Hindu organization riding against all odds and
negative propaganda by Indian as well as Foreign media. This victory has
shown it was a people's mandate for his development work done in
Gujarat. One can't ignore the fact that today Gujarat is flourishing
under BJP and Modi's rule with contribution of whopping Rs. 1.03
trillion GDP to the nation. It is one of the most attractive destination
for foreign investment in India.

Gujarat is declared as the best administered state in India. Narendra
Modi has done well in giving clean, effective and progressive Governance
during last seven years with prosperity and infrastructure development.
It is today is free from communal tension and disruptive elements and
jihadis are contained.

The prejudiced media, especially the third grade Tehelka unknowingly
helped Modi. The sensible Gujarati public took the media's slandering
against the pride of Gujarat and stood firmly behind Modi.

The best blessing came from Sonia Gandi's remarks, "Maut ke Saudagar"
was a NO BALL to Modi, and a no ball is always a FREE HIT, modi did not
miss this opportunity to hit the ball above boundry for a SIX. Sonia
Gandi's speech writer (probably some Bollywood film dialogue writer)
proved to be a disaster for Congress.

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.



2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a
divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign
has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing
today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and
RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The
was the point that Sema had made.



Response

It is the plague called Congress which came in Goa by liquidating the
UG party and remained in power by instilling fear in the minds of
minority community by false propaganda against earlier MG and then BJP
to achieve its corrupt intentions. Prior to Congress entry defections,
corruption and scams were non existent in Goa.

Regarding postings on Goanet, I understand this is neutral forum and if
you do not want to be a domain of a particular religion and one
political party everyone should be allowed to express one's opinion
whether you agree to it nor not.

I respect your right to criticise, though many people quite often
indulge in slandering BJP and its supporters by mauling with epithets.



3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by
exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the
BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and
then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where
muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places,
where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the
enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.



Response

This is the propaganda spread by Congress in collaboration with media
and this is their biggest mistake. The Congress party is being trapped
in its own web and losing one by one states in elections.

The Congress always tried to topple the BJP governments in States, any
time it could, and by any means, fair and foul to accomplish its
unworthy objective, the Congress parceled out lot of misinformation and
falsehood about BJP and tries to disseminates it far and wide.





4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they
have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks
otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.



Response

Your above statement resembles a person who has lost coherence and
have been knocked senseless by a dose of abhorrence towards the party
you do not share ideologies. BJP ruled Goa for more than 4 years and
this much time was enough for it to display its Gujarat type Prowess if
it was same as Gujarat BJP. BJP did more for Goa's economy in 4 years
than corrupt Cong in two decades.

This congress would have thrown us out of our homes to make way for
SEZs. And do not forget the constant subversion of constitution by
illegally using Governor and Speaker to carry out constitutional crimes
to dismiss rival Govt and save their own Government in Goa.



Regards

Vinay
marshallmendonza
2008-01-30 09:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Excerpt from last post:

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
IDr Anand says : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

Comment:
In the assembly elections held immediately post Godhra, where communalism was at its peak, the BJP won 120+ seats. However, in the 2004 Lok Sabha elections held 2 years later, when "India Shining"(development) was BJP's plank. the BJP lost 12 LS seats to the Congress, which if translated into assembly seats meant that the Congress actually won in around 96 assembly seats (a comforable majority). Which proves that the electorate did not believe that the BJP worked for development. In the latest elections too, almost every opinion poll predicted a neck to neck race with the BJP winning only marginally. But the last minute communal plank played by Modi tilted the scale and made a big difference. The BJP leadership has realised that only playing to the base instincts of the electorate will help it reap rich dividends.

Dr Anand wrote:
All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )
Comment:
I entirely agree that the BJP does not represent Hinduism nor speak for Hinduism. Hinduism is a much richer religion which believes in assimilating people of all religions unlike the Hindutva practiced by the BJP which is exclusivist.


MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any development
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
Dr Anand says : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

Comment:
Pl refer point 1 above

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
Dr Anand says : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

Comment: All I can say is that you are not abreast with the latest developments taking place in the BJP and out of sync with their thinking.Pl refer to newspapers and newscasts of the last 3-4 days covering the BJP Central Meeting.

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
Dr Anand says : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.

Comment: The BJP whether in Goa or in Gujarat follow the same ideology which is derived from the RSS. I do not know whether you have read M S Golwalkar's book " We or our nationhood defined" or " Brotherhood in saffron". In it he clearly espouses that Muslims, then Christians, then Communists and then secular minded Indians ( read Hindus) are enemies of the nation and should be annihilated or subjudicated. They should expect no rights nor any privileges. They should live at the mercy of the majority Hindu community.
This then is the ideology followed by the BJP everywhere. Wherever the BJP is in power, the minorities are persecuted. Be it Orissa, MP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Chhatisgarh, and even recently in Karnataka. We have enough trailblazers before us. In Goa we had the infamous VCD, the storming of the Archbishops house, the desecration of Fontainhas, the destruction of Braganza Hotel, the stuffing of RSS persons in the police force, the media, the home ministry, etc. Only those who are blind will not see this.

In conclusion, I believe you are a well meaning person. But you need to see the view from the other side to understand its gravity. As the saying goes ' the taste of the pudding is in the eating' . Only when you are able to taste the BJP, then only you will understand the feeling.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
marshallmendonza
2008-01-31 08:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Vinay wrote:

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.

Comment:

Dr Anand, this is precisely the kind of mindset that Selma referred to in anguish which hurt you a lot.Here is a gentlemen gloating over the exra-judicial killing which has been admitted to by the Gujarat Govt before the Supreme Court. It is so easy to brand someone a criminal and then do away with him, especialy if he hails from the muslim community. Not only was Sohrabuddin done away with but even his wife against whom there were no criminal charges and also his friend Prajapati. What stops the BJP from doing this tomorrow in Goa with other minorities? This is not a stray statement. Minorities in India are under attack from the sangh parivar everyday in different parts of the country. Sadly, society in its quest for money and material wants has turned a blind eye. I have yet to hear voices from civil society condemning these attacks. Today minorities, dalits and people from the marginalised are fair game. He who wears the shoes knows where it pinches.


Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-25 13:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

I guess it is about time I make my intentions in making my
presence felt on Goanet clear :

1) I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over
the last few years is the most corrupt and irresponsible
goverment to have been in power since Goa's liberation
( which I think in itself was a mistake...the anti-portuguese
lobby are welcome to criticise me on that "anti-national"
statement...but I don't really care )
My conviction about the quality ( or lack of it ) of the
Congress goverment's governance in Goa is backed by
clear factual and statistical data from "inside" sources
within the administration ( and it will need similar factual
data to make me change my stance )
So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this vile
goverment stat ( for non-medico's , that means as soon
as humanely possible )

2) I do not agree that these "people's movements "
are the long term solution for Goa's ills.The conflicts
between these various agitationaries ( and the ease
with which the Congress corrupticians are able to purchase
their loyalties ) are such that we will be wasting all our
valuable time and resources and ending up at square one.
I thought there was a golden opportunity at the last
assembly elections to get even 1 or 2 individuals who
did not need any money or fame from the involvement
in Goan politics.I spent several hours and a lot of my
limited financial resources, speaking long distance to
certain " valiant,forthright and amazingly far-sighted "
individuals who were in a position to "convene" their
"apolitical" colleagues in the hope that they would grab this
chance to do something for Goa other than making empty
speeches and accepting awards.I had that time promised
my support ( and that of my friends and colleagues ) to
these " V , F and amazingly F-S " chaps that we would even
back them if he/they contested against the vile Manohar
Parrikar in the Panaji constituency.
Not only have these "V, F and amazingly F-S " persons
missed the boat,they have been bought out lock,stock and
barrel by the Congress ( It is blatantly obvious now, if you
look at Rajan's recent postings...but was actually very much
evident in the literary efforts of these apolitical snakes in the
grass in the local media even in the build up to the June
assembly elections )
And that is why we need a long term ,stable and responsible
government in Goa....not a process of repeated attacks on the
"Bastille"

3) I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities than
BJP can offer at present ) is the only solution for Goa in the
present circumstances.I am not a blind follower of either Mr
Parrikar or the BJP ( and acceeding to Mervyn-bab's request,
I will happily write a fairly detailed letter on Goanet in the next
day or two pointing out Mr Parrikar's many mistakes as well
as drawbacks )....but it is up to the Pro-Congress presence
on this forum ( and I respect thir right to have their own political
convictions )to convince me otherwise.If they want to retain any
credibility,they should likewise point out the "rare" errors made
by the Congress.


And finally,in passing, to Frederick-bab, whose kind words have
triggered this posting :
a)I did not phone you to protest about my love for "Goa "...I
profess it ( and it superceedes all my support for any political
party or inidividual politician in Goa)
b) I am not part of any group ( and I am not aware if Yogesh is )
But I will not hesitate to take a swipe at anyone who tries to
propagate obviously false " pro-bjp " or "anti-congress" agenda.
Read that line again to ingest it.
In fact, if Digamber Kamat develops a strong enough spine ( at
present he appears to lack a spinal cord entirely,apart from a
coccyx which has been at the receiving end of Sonia-madam's
shoes ),i will gladlythrow my weight behind him.
c) Last,but certainly not the least, in context of your mailing,
using your logic ( and I am ,perhaps , generous to term it so ),
is your own strident tirade against Manohar Parrikar ,not just on
this forum but many others you have access to ...and not just
since my entry into this forum but over the years, is your one-point
agenda calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one
genuine threat to the rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corrupt
and irresponsible government to ever rule over Goa ?

luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )







_________________________________________________________________
Share what Santa brought you
https://www.mycooluncool.com
Philip Thomas
2008-01-27 06:12:19 UTC
Permalink
<I am convinced the Congress goverment ruling Goa over the last few years is
the most corrupt and irresponsible goverment to have been in power since
Goa's liberation..So, my first mission here is to help get rid of this
vilegoverment ...I feel that a Manohar Parrikar led co-alition government
( with a much stronger representation for the minorities thanBJP can offer
at present ) is the only solution for Goa ...is your one-pointagenda
calculated to prop-up the Congress and squash the one genuine threat to the
rape of Goa by ( I repeat ) the most corruptand irresponsible government to
ever rule over Goa? >[Anand Virgincar]

This is sure to create a storm --- in the goanet teacup. It will evoke the
usual one-liners and perhaps an attempt or two at one-upmanship. But
seriously, the subject heading is a dead giveaway. One point agendas
intrigue me because they are usually marked by tunnel vision and the
accompanying blindspots. This one is no exception. It is personality-,
party- and politics-centric, when the need of the hour is for a wholistic
perspective of Goa where inflexion points are identified over the long haul
and steps outlined to prevent backsliding in the future.

Before proceeding further let's be clear that what the author says may in
fact come to pass (though it is unlikely as long as the UPA/Congress is in
power at the Centre). If it does, it will not be due to the author's
efforts, however herculean, but due to a mere coincidence of external
socio-political forces.

Let's also be clear that the next time BJP comes to power at the centre it
will not be just Hindutva but Moditva, a heavy duty version of the former.
Let's see how an "enlightened" MP is able to go against that in Goa, if
required. In the circumstances, which would be the better of two evils? Goa
will be thinking deeply about that.
Edward Desilva
2008-01-27 12:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Anand said:
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat
the " communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been
blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I
will tackle this in more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab
regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
Reply:
We have had enough of this person via Carmo, now we have 'son of
Carmo' on Goanet talking about Porrikar as if he is the best thing
since sliced bread for Goa.
We are not concerned about his errors, he may be wanted by the
Panjimcars but the rest of Goa does not want RSS.
Wasting time on a loser is not something you think about - do you!

Anand says:
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikelyto
venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because ofthe
demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to
anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in
individual assembly constiuencies ).
Reply:
Than he should have thought twice about bringing the RSS-Hindutvas
thugs from outside Goa during Elections to create mayham in Goa.
Are you saying he did not march the RSS dance in his khakhi shorts and
bamboo stick?
It is too late for him to give up his alliance to the BJP/RSS.
ED.
Philip Thomas
2008-01-28 02:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Anand:

You have covered the ground quite well in your flowery post. So I can be
brief in my response.
1.<My long term agendais also to identify the faults in our system and
prevent backsliding. But ,I strongly feel that the " need of the hour " is
to have a stable and responsible goverment in place > It may be better to
invest in the long term agenda upfront. Otherwise there is a danger of
resorting to solutions (like backing MP) which may address the wrong
'problems'.

2.<We cannot , however , hope and wait for co-incidences to controlthe fate
of Goa and Goans ...a more pro-active involvement of the Goan people is
necessary.> Ditto viz the danger of a Type II Error (right solution, wrong
problem).

3.< I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move awayfrom the "
Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavilyon this is not likely
to win them a national election . Even Modidid not use the " Hindutva " card
in the recent Gujarat elections ,at the risk of distancing himself from the
RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be
more than capable of taking serious note about.> The jury is out on this
after the Modi victory. Who is the iron fist and who is the velvet glove
("mask") now will need to be identified.

4. <With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoeverthat the "
communal " tag of the BJP party and ManoharParrikar have been blown out of
all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in
more in the responseI have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars
errors.> Let's have some conclusive evidence of the former. Your take on the
latter will also be of interest. Cheers.
marshallmendonza
2008-01-29 05:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Dr Anand Virgincar wrote:

I feel the BJP ( as a whole ) has no option but to move away from the " Hindutva " part of their agenda . Relying too heavily on this is not likely to win them a national election . Even Modi did not use the " Hindutva " card in the recent Gujarat elections , at the risk of distancing himself from the RSS and the VHP. He won resoundingly neverthless , a point Advani should be more than capable of taking serious note about.
b) With respect to Goa itself , there is no question whatsoever that the " communal " tag of the BJP party and Manohar Parrikar have been blown out of all proportions by the Congress propaganda machine . I will tackle this in more in the response I have promised Mervyn-bab regarding Manohar Parrikars errors.
c) Another reason Manohar Parrikar and the Goa BJP are unlikely to venture too much into the " Hindutva " territory is because of the demographics of the Goan electorate ( this is blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to look at the proportion of different communities in individual assembly constiuencies ).

Comment:

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election - be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.
2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The was the point that Sema had made.
3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places, where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.
4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
anand virgincar
2008-01-29 12:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Dear Marshall-bab,
Thanks for taking the time to scrutinise and respond to my posting.
Let me take your comments on step by step ( I have edited a few
of your comments without changing what you were saying...this
is simply to make the post shorter lest the moderators reject it
on the count that it is too long ) :

MM says : Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did
not use the Hindutva card .
I say : Dr Anand was not joking . He made a stupid mistake which
he realised within seconds of hitting the send button ( and I am
surprised that you are the only one which picked up this " clinker "
I dropped ). Modi definitely used the Hindutva card ( much more so
after Madam Sonia provided him with an opportunity to expand it
with her " Maut ke Saudagar " clinker ).What I was trying to say
is that Modi used it much less than he has done previously.....to
the point that the RSS and VHP were not fully supportive in his
election campaign .

MM says : Prior to Godhra ,the BJP was consistently loosing every
election.
I say : That is incorrect . The BJP has been in power in Gujarat
since March 14 1995 ( which was well before Godhra ) apart from
perhaps October 23 1996 to March 4 1998 when a faction of the
BJP formed the Rashtriya Janata Dal and took temporary charge.
This is however a minor error on your part compared to my much
bigger mistake above .
Having said all that , Godhra ( and the BJP's involvement in it was
shameful and unforgiveable ). If I was in charge , I would punish
every politician even remotely involved in it ( and certainly not elect
any of them again , however good their performance was on the
developement / administrative front )
I hope the Congress supporters on this forum are capable of making
statements like this on the 1984 Sikh riots etc.

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
I say : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

MM says : I do not even remember communalism being an emotive
issue and a divide in Goa prior to the advent of BJP .
I say : That you do not remember is a personal matter . Differences
between communities in Goa has existed since long before the BJP
came to Goa .The fashionable term " communalism " has been applied
to it much more since the BJP's advent. And I stand by my earlier
statement on this forum , that the Congress is as much if not more
responsible for causing stess between Goan peoples than the BJP.

MM says : One finds postings of hatred/venom/RSS propaganda on
Goanet with blatant disregard for facts and truth ( which is as a
consequence of the brief BJP reign in Goa )
I say : Agree entirely ....except for 2 caveats
a) There are also postings on Goanet expressing hatred/venom/
non-hindu organisation propaganda with blatant disregard for facts
and truth . It is up to persons like you and me to drown their voices.
( I have already made a public deal with Selma-bai on this forum
and will try my best to stick to my half of the deal )
b) All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )

MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any developement
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
I say : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
I say : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

MM says : BJP create an imaginary enemy as Hitler did with the
Jews and then try to polarise communities.
I say : Opposing political groups are doing a much better job
of creating an imaginary " Hindutva " enemy and distancing
moderate and even " mild " Hindus from their non-Hindu
brethren.

MM says : In places where Christians are in large numbers , they
are made out to be the enemy ( false propaganda on the inquisition,
inflammatory VCD etc )
I say : In the context of Goa , BJP will be extremely foolish if they
try to make Christians their enemy . If they do anything to harm
the Christians in Goa , I will be the first to stop supporting them.
With reference to the VCD and propaganda about the inquisition
( whether true or false is immaterial to me ), I feel that was an
extremely stupid error of judgement which hurt the Catholic people
of Goa ( and hopefully there are many more Hindu's like myself who
found it hurtful ).I do not , however , feel that this ( and many
other errors the BJP goverment in Goa made ) were bad enough
to stop good people from all communities in Goa from voting them
back to power ( espescially when the other option is worse )

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
I say : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.
They made extremely stupid mistakes which hurt the minorities
( and Manohar Parrikar was courageous enough to admit this prior
to the June elections ) but they did not do anything even remotely
resembling what happened in Gujarat ( or what happened in 1984 )

MM says : Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fools paradise.
I say : I feel a Manohar Parrikar led BJP goverment ( with a stronger
and non poster-boy Catholic representation in terms of MLA's and
ministries than in the BJP ranks at present ) will provide a better
option for Goa not just in terms of reducing divisiveness between
Goan people , cutting down on the rampant corruption , decreasing
factionalism between MLA's but on every count .
Perhaps I am living in a fools paradise....but then perhaps, I just
possibly may dreaming with my eyes open .


luv and regards,
anand

( Dr Anand Virgincar )






_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
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Vinay Natekar
2008-01-30 07:05:47 UTC
Permalink
marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com <mailto:marshallmendonza at indiatimes.com>
wrote :

1. Perhaps Dr Anand is joking when he says that Modi did not use the
Hindutva card in the Gujarat election. Perhaps he should refer to the
newspapers and newscasts of the day to refresh his memory. When Modi
found that he was not making much ground on the development card, he
resorted to Hindutva by blatantly justifying the extrajudicial killing
of Sohrabuddin and making subtle threats of how other muslims would be
dealt with in Gujarat. This appeal for blood made the difference to the
margin of victory. Otherwise, if you scan the records, you will observe
that prior to Godhra, the BJP was consistently losing every election -
be it gram panchayat, municipal. In fact in the last Lok sabha
elections, the BJP won 14 seats against the Congress' 12.



Response

Modi has won this election convincingly in Gujarat without the support
of RSS, VHP or any Hindu organization riding against all odds and
negative propaganda by Indian as well as Foreign media. This victory has
shown it was a people's mandate for his development work done in
Gujarat. One can't ignore the fact that today Gujarat is flourishing
under BJP and Modi's rule with contribution of whopping Rs. 1.03
trillion GDP to the nation. It is one of the most attractive destination
for foreign investment in India.

Gujarat is declared as the best administered state in India. Narendra
Modi has done well in giving clean, effective and progressive Governance
during last seven years with prosperity and infrastructure development.
It is today is free from communal tension and disruptive elements and
jihadis are contained.

The prejudiced media, especially the third grade Tehelka unknowingly
helped Modi. The sensible Gujarati public took the media's slandering
against the pride of Gujarat and stood firmly behind Modi.

The best blessing came from Sonia Gandi's remarks, "Maut ke Saudagar"
was a NO BALL to Modi, and a no ball is always a FREE HIT, modi did not
miss this opportunity to hit the ball above boundry for a SIX. Sonia
Gandi's speech writer (probably some Bollywood film dialogue writer)
proved to be a disaster for Congress.

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.



2. I do not ever remember communalism being an emotive issue and a
divide in Goa prior to the advent of the BJP. The BJP in its brief reign
has sown the seeds of communalism, the fruits of which we are seeing
today even on Goanet, where one finds postings of hatred and venom and
RSS propaganda stuff with blatant disregard for facts and the truth. The
was the point that Sema had made.



Response

It is the plague called Congress which came in Goa by liquidating the
UG party and remained in power by instilling fear in the minds of
minority community by false propaganda against earlier MG and then BJP
to achieve its corrupt intentions. Prior to Congress entry defections,
corruption and scams were non existent in Goa.

Regarding postings on Goanet, I understand this is neutral forum and if
you do not want to be a domain of a particular religion and one
political party everyone should be allowed to express one's opinion
whether you agree to it nor not.

I respect your right to criticise, though many people quite often
indulge in slandering BJP and its supporters by mauling with epithets.



3. The BJP has made progress not on any development card but by
exploiting religious emotions. Even today Modi is the role model for the
BJP. They create an imaginary enemy a la Hitler did with the Jews and
then try to polarise the communities. In the rest of India, where
muslims are in substantial numbers, they are the enemy and in places,
where christians are in large numbers, they are made out to be the
enemy. eg: false propaganda on the inquisition, inflamatory VCD, etc.



Response

This is the propaganda spread by Congress in collaboration with media
and this is their biggest mistake. The Congress party is being trapped
in its own web and losing one by one states in elections.

The Congress always tried to topple the BJP governments in States, any
time it could, and by any means, fair and foul to accomplish its
unworthy objective, the Congress parceled out lot of misinformation and
falsehood about BJP and tries to disseminates it far and wide.





4. the BJP in Goa is no different from the BJP in Gujarat. Only they
have not had the opportunity to display their prowess. Anyone who thinks
otherwise ids living in a fools paradise.



Response

Your above statement resembles a person who has lost coherence and
have been knocked senseless by a dose of abhorrence towards the party
you do not share ideologies. BJP ruled Goa for more than 4 years and
this much time was enough for it to display its Gujarat type Prowess if
it was same as Gujarat BJP. BJP did more for Goa's economy in 4 years
than corrupt Cong in two decades.

This congress would have thrown us out of our homes to make way for
SEZs. And do not forget the constant subversion of constitution by
illegally using Governor and Speaker to carry out constitutional crimes
to dismiss rival Govt and save their own Government in Goa.



Regards

Vinay
marshallmendonza
2008-01-30 09:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Excerpt from last post:

MM says : In fact in the last Lok Sabha elections , the BJP won
14 seats against the Congress 12 .
IDr Anand says : These elections were post Godhra and when the Hindutva
card was being used to it's maximum . It proves my point that
the BJP cannot rely on this agenda alone if they wish to progress
politically ( and if an idiot like me can see this , the big bosses in
Delhi and Goa will have taken note )

Comment:
In the assembly elections held immediately post Godhra, where communalism was at its peak, the BJP won 120+ seats. However, in the 2004 Lok Sabha elections held 2 years later, when "India Shining"(development) was BJP's plank. the BJP lost 12 LS seats to the Congress, which if translated into assembly seats meant that the Congress actually won in around 96 assembly seats (a comforable majority). Which proves that the electorate did not believe that the BJP worked for development. In the latest elections too, almost every opinion poll predicted a neck to neck race with the BJP winning only marginally. But the last minute communal plank played by Modi tilted the scale and made a big difference. The BJP leadership has realised that only playing to the base instincts of the electorate will help it reap rich dividends.

Dr Anand wrote:
All that is BJP politics is not Hindu bigotry ( and vice versa )
Comment:
I entirely agree that the BJP does not represent Hinduism nor speak for Hinduism. Hinduism is a much richer religion which believes in assimilating people of all religions unlike the Hindutva practiced by the BJP which is exclusivist.


MM says : The BJP has made progress not on any development
card but by exploiting religious emotions.
Dr Anand says : Not true . BJP has made progress using both religious and
developement cards . The former has been overemphasized , the
latter played down ( by the opposing camp )

Comment:
Pl refer point 1 above

MM says : Even today Modi is a role model for the BJP
Dr Anand says : Not for the vast majority of BJP supporters...absolutely
not for me ( and I sincerely hope , not for Manohar Parrikar )

Comment: All I can say is that you are not abreast with the latest developments taking place in the BJP and out of sync with their thinking.Pl refer to newspapers and newscasts of the last 3-4 days covering the BJP Central Meeting.

MM says : Goa BJP is no different from Gujarat BJP , only they have
not had the opportunity to display their prowess.
Dr Anand says : Goa BJP had 51 months. That is plenty of time if they were
keen enough to " display their prowess ". They did not display it.

Comment: The BJP whether in Goa or in Gujarat follow the same ideology which is derived from the RSS. I do not know whether you have read M S Golwalkar's book " We or our nationhood defined" or " Brotherhood in saffron". In it he clearly espouses that Muslims, then Christians, then Communists and then secular minded Indians ( read Hindus) are enemies of the nation and should be annihilated or subjudicated. They should expect no rights nor any privileges. They should live at the mercy of the majority Hindu community.
This then is the ideology followed by the BJP everywhere. Wherever the BJP is in power, the minorities are persecuted. Be it Orissa, MP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Chhatisgarh, and even recently in Karnataka. We have enough trailblazers before us. In Goa we had the infamous VCD, the storming of the Archbishops house, the desecration of Fontainhas, the destruction of Braganza Hotel, the stuffing of RSS persons in the police force, the media, the home ministry, etc. Only those who are blind will not see this.

In conclusion, I believe you are a well meaning person. But you need to see the view from the other side to understand its gravity. As the saying goes ' the taste of the pudding is in the eating' . Only when you are able to taste the BJP, then only you will understand the feeling.

Mog asundi,

Marshall Mendonza
marshallmendonza
2008-01-31 08:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Vinay wrote:

The cops and goons story currently played out in Gujarat today is not a
new phenomenon. It is being played in hyperbole in the guise of minority
persecution. Sohrabuddin Sheikh, a proven extortionist and criminal
against whom several cases were registered in four states and was
allegedly plotting to assassinate Gujarat Chief Minister. He was
arrested in some cases but escaped conviction. This case is singled out
and highlighted by media merely because he was as muslim killed in Modi
ruled Gujarat. Congress found an opportunity provided by Sohrabuddin
case and tried to exploit it to maximum to gain political mileage out of
it.

Comment:

Dr Anand, this is precisely the kind of mindset that Selma referred to in anguish which hurt you a lot.Here is a gentlemen gloating over the exra-judicial killing which has been admitted to by the Gujarat Govt before the Supreme Court. It is so easy to brand someone a criminal and then do away with him, especialy if he hails from the muslim community. Not only was Sohrabuddin done away with but even his wife against whom there were no criminal charges and also his friend Prajapati. What stops the BJP from doing this tomorrow in Goa with other minorities? This is not a stray statement. Minorities in India are under attack from the sangh parivar everyday in different parts of the country. Sadly, society in its quest for money and material wants has turned a blind eye. I have yet to hear voices from civil society condemning these attacks. Today minorities, dalits and people from the marginalised are fair game. He who wears the shoes knows where it pinches.


Marshall Mendonza

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