Discussion:
American (USA) 'socialism'...
(too old to reply)
Patrice Riemens
2009-03-25 06:29:15 UTC
Permalink
What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] America - A Socialist Economy
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Marlon,
I would not describe the United Socialist States of America as
having?a socialist economy.
I would describe it as having a very PECULIAR socialist economy.
Here is the reason why.
When a public company makes profits, the profits are distributed
only to the risk takers or the wealthy.
When these same public companies make staggering losses,
management?gets a bonus and then the losses are distributed to
all?those who did not take any risks, but who are now the
bearers/sharers of the losses.
Abso-social-lutely amazing!
?
Another dubious program from the Bush era is the largest expansion
of socialized medicine ala its expansion of medicaid prescriptions for
the elderly.
Rest assured that every aspect of socialized medicine is going
to be expanded. USSA manufacturers are?at a competitive
disadvantage?verses companies in other?countries?that have?socialized
medicine. The?motor vehicle firms will be the first to be relieved of
their medical obligations.? After the medical expenses have been
outsourced to the govt, and local manufacturers still cannot compete
with international?firms,?the USSA govt will give loans to companies
that?cannot sell their products. The final socialist?step will be when
the govt converts those loans into shares to become the largest share
holder in the companies that cannot sell their products.?Yep, the
politicians are soon going to be appointing the directors and
management of USSA firms.
The US is still the most dynamic economy in the world, given
that it is still the most free market economy.
The above statement only works when you provide the numbers. For
example, the numbers that compares the dynamics of the economy of
China v/s that of the USSA. With out the numbers, your contention is
pure sentiment.
Lastly, I love this Obama? (blessed be, his name) guy.?It seems
that all the?TV news channels are carrying him live, twice a week. It
is?almost like a mini-series where the country cannot seem to get
enough of him.
?
?
Mervyn1650Lobo
Mario Goveia
2009-03-25 15:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:29:15 +0100
From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>

What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense ...

Mario responds:

Finally, someone with some good old Dutch common sense who has picked up on the "bizarre lunatic" stuff written by the ultra libertarian-anarchist voice on Goanet and magnified by his Canadian crony and his whimsical notions about the US.

Patrice, it's M-A-R-L-O-N who is our resident libertarian-anarchist. He is so right wing that he is in danger of falling off the planet:-))

He is NOT to be confused with M-A-R-I-O, who is a defender of the US system OVERALL, while recognizing all its faults, and the only voice on Goanet of reason, truth and peace, who keeps a sharp eye on the bizarre and the lunatics that lurk in the shadows of Goanet:-))

I'm glad you and your friends in the Netherlands had a good laugh, as many of us on Goanet did as well:-))

Because of its towering achievements in a short period in history, not too many people realize that the US, at 233 years of age, is still a work in progress, and things are not as good right now as in the past and will be again in the future.

The good news is that in a recent poll 86% of Americans blamed the government for the mess, which is a good sign, which will serve to control our new President and his teleprompter who wants MORE government intervention in the economy.

However, even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day:-)).

Total income taxes in the US, when you factor in Federal, state and local income taxes, can be in the 50% range in some states, especially for high income income earners. And our new President and his teleprompter are vowing to make Federal income taxes even higher.

Yes, the US is a relatively rich country, but for anyone who thinks the "rich" in the US don't pay more than their fair share of federal income taxes, please see: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Here is a summary:[figures rounded off]:

The top 1% of income earners earn 22% of total income and pay 40% of total federal income taxes.

The top 5% of income earners earn 37% of total income and pay 60% of total federal income taxes.

The top 10% of income earners earn 47% of total income and pay 71% of total federal income taxes.

The top 25% of income earners earn 68% of total income and pay 86% of total federal income taxes

The top 50% of income earners earn 87% of total income and pay 97% of total federal income taxes.

The bottom 50% of income earners earn 13% of total income and pay 3% of total federal income taxes.

Actually, the bottom 40% pay no federal income taxes at all. Many of these may be high school and college students for whom this is supplementary income in starter jobs. These are not to be confused with those with no income at all.

All poor Americans have access to a range of government and private assistance, contrary to popular myth.

Make of this what you wish, but these are just the facts.
goacom
2009-03-25 17:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Patrice,

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on. Perhaps he should have translated it in Dutch for you.

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income. And, I'm not including things like social security - something we pay for, but which is expected to be bankrupt but the time I retire. In the US we do get pretty crappy govt. services for the amount of money we pay. Perhaps some of this is because the US spends some of its wealth ensuring that you not be forced to speak in German or Russian :-)

Regarding welfare, you seem to have a vision of a socialized utopia like they do in parts of europe, where they even provide needles for drug addicts. But coming from India, I know what real poverty and suffering is. In a land of opportunities like the US, the poverty is of the mind, not the body and I believe the welfare state only serves to exacerbate this problem of unwarranted dependency. Perhaps we should send these people to Holland. We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Your comrade,

Marlon



--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl> wrote:


From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] American (USA) 'socialism'...
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:29 AM


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh?? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Mario Goveia
2009-03-26 13:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marlon Menezes

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on.

We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Mario responds:

Patrice,

You have no idea what you have achieved here:-)) Your description of his ideas as "...the most bizarre lunatic rightist fringe stuff..." has completely discombobulated Marlon, who is normally on the verbal attack and the facts be damned, but we here see him cowed and whimpering:-))

You can see the intellectual confusion - unable to tell the difference between Ren's socialism and my Reagan-conservatism. This is what leads to such merriment among Goanet members whenever Marlon ventures out to embarrass himself:-))

Marlon wrote:

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income.

Mario observes:

"...medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes"????????

Patrice had referred to income taxes, and only income taxes can get a high income earner close to a 50% rate in some states, when federal, state and local income taxes are included.

Oh, I see what happened. Patrice had written I.T. which must have been confusing:-))
Patrice Riemens
2009-03-25 06:29:15 UTC
Permalink
What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] America - A Socialist Economy
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Marlon,
I would not describe the United Socialist States of America as
having?a socialist economy.
I would describe it as having a very PECULIAR socialist economy.
Here is the reason why.
When a public company makes profits, the profits are distributed
only to the risk takers or the wealthy.
When these same public companies make staggering losses,
management?gets a bonus and then the losses are distributed to
all?those who did not take any risks, but who are now the
bearers/sharers of the losses.
Abso-social-lutely amazing!
?
Another dubious program from the Bush era is the largest expansion
of socialized medicine ala its expansion of medicaid prescriptions for
the elderly.
Rest assured that every aspect of socialized medicine is going
to be expanded. USSA manufacturers are?at a competitive
disadvantage?verses companies in other?countries?that have?socialized
medicine. The?motor vehicle firms will be the first to be relieved of
their medical obligations.? After the medical expenses have been
outsourced to the govt, and local manufacturers still cannot compete
with international?firms,?the USSA govt will give loans to companies
that?cannot sell their products. The final socialist?step will be when
the govt converts those loans into shares to become the largest share
holder in the companies that cannot sell their products.?Yep, the
politicians are soon going to be appointing the directors and
management of USSA firms.
The US is still the most dynamic economy in the world, given
that it is still the most free market economy.
The above statement only works when you provide the numbers. For
example, the numbers that compares the dynamics of the economy of
China v/s that of the USSA. With out the numbers, your contention is
pure sentiment.
Lastly, I love this Obama? (blessed be, his name) guy.?It seems
that all the?TV news channels are carrying him live, twice a week. It
is?almost like a mini-series where the country cannot seem to get
enough of him.
?
?
Mervyn1650Lobo
Mario Goveia
2009-03-25 15:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:29:15 +0100
From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>

What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense ...

Mario responds:

Finally, someone with some good old Dutch common sense who has picked up on the "bizarre lunatic" stuff written by the ultra libertarian-anarchist voice on Goanet and magnified by his Canadian crony and his whimsical notions about the US.

Patrice, it's M-A-R-L-O-N who is our resident libertarian-anarchist. He is so right wing that he is in danger of falling off the planet:-))

He is NOT to be confused with M-A-R-I-O, who is a defender of the US system OVERALL, while recognizing all its faults, and the only voice on Goanet of reason, truth and peace, who keeps a sharp eye on the bizarre and the lunatics that lurk in the shadows of Goanet:-))

I'm glad you and your friends in the Netherlands had a good laugh, as many of us on Goanet did as well:-))

Because of its towering achievements in a short period in history, not too many people realize that the US, at 233 years of age, is still a work in progress, and things are not as good right now as in the past and will be again in the future.

The good news is that in a recent poll 86% of Americans blamed the government for the mess, which is a good sign, which will serve to control our new President and his teleprompter who wants MORE government intervention in the economy.

However, even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day:-)).

Total income taxes in the US, when you factor in Federal, state and local income taxes, can be in the 50% range in some states, especially for high income income earners. And our new President and his teleprompter are vowing to make Federal income taxes even higher.

Yes, the US is a relatively rich country, but for anyone who thinks the "rich" in the US don't pay more than their fair share of federal income taxes, please see: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Here is a summary:[figures rounded off]:

The top 1% of income earners earn 22% of total income and pay 40% of total federal income taxes.

The top 5% of income earners earn 37% of total income and pay 60% of total federal income taxes.

The top 10% of income earners earn 47% of total income and pay 71% of total federal income taxes.

The top 25% of income earners earn 68% of total income and pay 86% of total federal income taxes

The top 50% of income earners earn 87% of total income and pay 97% of total federal income taxes.

The bottom 50% of income earners earn 13% of total income and pay 3% of total federal income taxes.

Actually, the bottom 40% pay no federal income taxes at all. Many of these may be high school and college students for whom this is supplementary income in starter jobs. These are not to be confused with those with no income at all.

All poor Americans have access to a range of government and private assistance, contrary to popular myth.

Make of this what you wish, but these are just the facts.
goacom
2009-03-25 17:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Patrice,

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on. Perhaps he should have translated it in Dutch for you.

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income. And, I'm not including things like social security - something we pay for, but which is expected to be bankrupt but the time I retire. In the US we do get pretty crappy govt. services for the amount of money we pay. Perhaps some of this is because the US spends some of its wealth ensuring that you not be forced to speak in German or Russian :-)

Regarding welfare, you seem to have a vision of a socialized utopia like they do in parts of europe, where they even provide needles for drug addicts. But coming from India, I know what real poverty and suffering is. In a land of opportunities like the US, the poverty is of the mind, not the body and I believe the welfare state only serves to exacerbate this problem of unwarranted dependency. Perhaps we should send these people to Holland. We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Your comrade,

Marlon



--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl> wrote:


From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] American (USA) 'socialism'...
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:29 AM


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh?? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Mario Goveia
2009-03-26 13:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marlon Menezes

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on.

We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Mario responds:

Patrice,

You have no idea what you have achieved here:-)) Your description of his ideas as "...the most bizarre lunatic rightist fringe stuff..." has completely discombobulated Marlon, who is normally on the verbal attack and the facts be damned, but we here see him cowed and whimpering:-))

You can see the intellectual confusion - unable to tell the difference between Ren's socialism and my Reagan-conservatism. This is what leads to such merriment among Goanet members whenever Marlon ventures out to embarrass himself:-))

Marlon wrote:

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income.

Mario observes:

"...medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes"????????

Patrice had referred to income taxes, and only income taxes can get a high income earner close to a 50% rate in some states, when federal, state and local income taxes are included.

Oh, I see what happened. Patrice had written I.T. which must have been confusing:-))
Patrice Riemens
2009-03-25 06:29:15 UTC
Permalink
What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] America - A Socialist Economy
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Marlon,
I would not describe the United Socialist States of America as
having?a socialist economy.
I would describe it as having a very PECULIAR socialist economy.
Here is the reason why.
When a public company makes profits, the profits are distributed
only to the risk takers or the wealthy.
When these same public companies make staggering losses,
management?gets a bonus and then the losses are distributed to
all?those who did not take any risks, but who are now the
bearers/sharers of the losses.
Abso-social-lutely amazing!
?
Another dubious program from the Bush era is the largest expansion
of socialized medicine ala its expansion of medicaid prescriptions for
the elderly.
Rest assured that every aspect of socialized medicine is going
to be expanded. USSA manufacturers are?at a competitive
disadvantage?verses companies in other?countries?that have?socialized
medicine. The?motor vehicle firms will be the first to be relieved of
their medical obligations.? After the medical expenses have been
outsourced to the govt, and local manufacturers still cannot compete
with international?firms,?the USSA govt will give loans to companies
that?cannot sell their products. The final socialist?step will be when
the govt converts those loans into shares to become the largest share
holder in the companies that cannot sell their products.?Yep, the
politicians are soon going to be appointing the directors and
management of USSA firms.
The US is still the most dynamic economy in the world, given
that it is still the most free market economy.
The above statement only works when you provide the numbers. For
example, the numbers that compares the dynamics of the economy of
China v/s that of the USSA. With out the numbers, your contention is
pure sentiment.
Lastly, I love this Obama? (blessed be, his name) guy.?It seems
that all the?TV news channels are carrying him live, twice a week. It
is?almost like a mini-series where the country cannot seem to get
enough of him.
?
?
Mervyn1650Lobo
Mario Goveia
2009-03-25 15:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:29:15 +0100
From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>

What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense ...

Mario responds:

Finally, someone with some good old Dutch common sense who has picked up on the "bizarre lunatic" stuff written by the ultra libertarian-anarchist voice on Goanet and magnified by his Canadian crony and his whimsical notions about the US.

Patrice, it's M-A-R-L-O-N who is our resident libertarian-anarchist. He is so right wing that he is in danger of falling off the planet:-))

He is NOT to be confused with M-A-R-I-O, who is a defender of the US system OVERALL, while recognizing all its faults, and the only voice on Goanet of reason, truth and peace, who keeps a sharp eye on the bizarre and the lunatics that lurk in the shadows of Goanet:-))

I'm glad you and your friends in the Netherlands had a good laugh, as many of us on Goanet did as well:-))

Because of its towering achievements in a short period in history, not too many people realize that the US, at 233 years of age, is still a work in progress, and things are not as good right now as in the past and will be again in the future.

The good news is that in a recent poll 86% of Americans blamed the government for the mess, which is a good sign, which will serve to control our new President and his teleprompter who wants MORE government intervention in the economy.

However, even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day:-)).

Total income taxes in the US, when you factor in Federal, state and local income taxes, can be in the 50% range in some states, especially for high income income earners. And our new President and his teleprompter are vowing to make Federal income taxes even higher.

Yes, the US is a relatively rich country, but for anyone who thinks the "rich" in the US don't pay more than their fair share of federal income taxes, please see: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Here is a summary:[figures rounded off]:

The top 1% of income earners earn 22% of total income and pay 40% of total federal income taxes.

The top 5% of income earners earn 37% of total income and pay 60% of total federal income taxes.

The top 10% of income earners earn 47% of total income and pay 71% of total federal income taxes.

The top 25% of income earners earn 68% of total income and pay 86% of total federal income taxes

The top 50% of income earners earn 87% of total income and pay 97% of total federal income taxes.

The bottom 50% of income earners earn 13% of total income and pay 3% of total federal income taxes.

Actually, the bottom 40% pay no federal income taxes at all. Many of these may be high school and college students for whom this is supplementary income in starter jobs. These are not to be confused with those with no income at all.

All poor Americans have access to a range of government and private assistance, contrary to popular myth.

Make of this what you wish, but these are just the facts.
goacom
2009-03-25 17:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Patrice,

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on. Perhaps he should have translated it in Dutch for you.

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income. And, I'm not including things like social security - something we pay for, but which is expected to be bankrupt but the time I retire. In the US we do get pretty crappy govt. services for the amount of money we pay. Perhaps some of this is because the US spends some of its wealth ensuring that you not be forced to speak in German or Russian :-)

Regarding welfare, you seem to have a vision of a socialized utopia like they do in parts of europe, where they even provide needles for drug addicts. But coming from India, I know what real poverty and suffering is. In a land of opportunities like the US, the poverty is of the mind, not the body and I believe the welfare state only serves to exacerbate this problem of unwarranted dependency. Perhaps we should send these people to Holland. We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Your comrade,

Marlon



--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl> wrote:


From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] American (USA) 'socialism'...
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:29 AM


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh?? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Mario Goveia
2009-03-26 13:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marlon Menezes

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on.

We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Mario responds:

Patrice,

You have no idea what you have achieved here:-)) Your description of his ideas as "...the most bizarre lunatic rightist fringe stuff..." has completely discombobulated Marlon, who is normally on the verbal attack and the facts be damned, but we here see him cowed and whimpering:-))

You can see the intellectual confusion - unable to tell the difference between Ren's socialism and my Reagan-conservatism. This is what leads to such merriment among Goanet members whenever Marlon ventures out to embarrass himself:-))

Marlon wrote:

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income.

Mario observes:

"...medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes"????????

Patrice had referred to income taxes, and only income taxes can get a high income earner close to a 50% rate in some states, when federal, state and local income taxes are included.

Oh, I see what happened. Patrice had written I.T. which must have been confusing:-))
Patrice Riemens
2009-03-25 06:29:15 UTC
Permalink
What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] America - A Socialist Economy
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Marlon,
I would not describe the United Socialist States of America as
having?a socialist economy.
I would describe it as having a very PECULIAR socialist economy.
Here is the reason why.
When a public company makes profits, the profits are distributed
only to the risk takers or the wealthy.
When these same public companies make staggering losses,
management?gets a bonus and then the losses are distributed to
all?those who did not take any risks, but who are now the
bearers/sharers of the losses.
Abso-social-lutely amazing!
?
Another dubious program from the Bush era is the largest expansion
of socialized medicine ala its expansion of medicaid prescriptions for
the elderly.
Rest assured that every aspect of socialized medicine is going
to be expanded. USSA manufacturers are?at a competitive
disadvantage?verses companies in other?countries?that have?socialized
medicine. The?motor vehicle firms will be the first to be relieved of
their medical obligations.? After the medical expenses have been
outsourced to the govt, and local manufacturers still cannot compete
with international?firms,?the USSA govt will give loans to companies
that?cannot sell their products. The final socialist?step will be when
the govt converts those loans into shares to become the largest share
holder in the companies that cannot sell their products.?Yep, the
politicians are soon going to be appointing the directors and
management of USSA firms.
The US is still the most dynamic economy in the world, given
that it is still the most free market economy.
The above statement only works when you provide the numbers. For
example, the numbers that compares the dynamics of the economy of
China v/s that of the USSA. With out the numbers, your contention is
pure sentiment.
Lastly, I love this Obama? (blessed be, his name) guy.?It seems
that all the?TV news channels are carrying him live, twice a week. It
is?almost like a mini-series where the country cannot seem to get
enough of him.
?
?
Mervyn1650Lobo
Mario Goveia
2009-03-25 15:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:29:15 +0100
From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>

What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense ...

Mario responds:

Finally, someone with some good old Dutch common sense who has picked up on the "bizarre lunatic" stuff written by the ultra libertarian-anarchist voice on Goanet and magnified by his Canadian crony and his whimsical notions about the US.

Patrice, it's M-A-R-L-O-N who is our resident libertarian-anarchist. He is so right wing that he is in danger of falling off the planet:-))

He is NOT to be confused with M-A-R-I-O, who is a defender of the US system OVERALL, while recognizing all its faults, and the only voice on Goanet of reason, truth and peace, who keeps a sharp eye on the bizarre and the lunatics that lurk in the shadows of Goanet:-))

I'm glad you and your friends in the Netherlands had a good laugh, as many of us on Goanet did as well:-))

Because of its towering achievements in a short period in history, not too many people realize that the US, at 233 years of age, is still a work in progress, and things are not as good right now as in the past and will be again in the future.

The good news is that in a recent poll 86% of Americans blamed the government for the mess, which is a good sign, which will serve to control our new President and his teleprompter who wants MORE government intervention in the economy.

However, even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day:-)).

Total income taxes in the US, when you factor in Federal, state and local income taxes, can be in the 50% range in some states, especially for high income income earners. And our new President and his teleprompter are vowing to make Federal income taxes even higher.

Yes, the US is a relatively rich country, but for anyone who thinks the "rich" in the US don't pay more than their fair share of federal income taxes, please see: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Here is a summary:[figures rounded off]:

The top 1% of income earners earn 22% of total income and pay 40% of total federal income taxes.

The top 5% of income earners earn 37% of total income and pay 60% of total federal income taxes.

The top 10% of income earners earn 47% of total income and pay 71% of total federal income taxes.

The top 25% of income earners earn 68% of total income and pay 86% of total federal income taxes

The top 50% of income earners earn 87% of total income and pay 97% of total federal income taxes.

The bottom 50% of income earners earn 13% of total income and pay 3% of total federal income taxes.

Actually, the bottom 40% pay no federal income taxes at all. Many of these may be high school and college students for whom this is supplementary income in starter jobs. These are not to be confused with those with no income at all.

All poor Americans have access to a range of government and private assistance, contrary to popular myth.

Make of this what you wish, but these are just the facts.
goacom
2009-03-25 17:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Patrice,

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on. Perhaps he should have translated it in Dutch for you.

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income. And, I'm not including things like social security - something we pay for, but which is expected to be bankrupt but the time I retire. In the US we do get pretty crappy govt. services for the amount of money we pay. Perhaps some of this is because the US spends some of its wealth ensuring that you not be forced to speak in German or Russian :-)

Regarding welfare, you seem to have a vision of a socialized utopia like they do in parts of europe, where they even provide needles for drug addicts. But coming from India, I know what real poverty and suffering is. In a land of opportunities like the US, the poverty is of the mind, not the body and I believe the welfare state only serves to exacerbate this problem of unwarranted dependency. Perhaps we should send these people to Holland. We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Your comrade,

Marlon



--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl> wrote:


From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] American (USA) 'socialism'...
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:29 AM


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh?? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Mario Goveia
2009-03-26 13:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marlon Menezes

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on.

We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Mario responds:

Patrice,

You have no idea what you have achieved here:-)) Your description of his ideas as "...the most bizarre lunatic rightist fringe stuff..." has completely discombobulated Marlon, who is normally on the verbal attack and the facts be damned, but we here see him cowed and whimpering:-))

You can see the intellectual confusion - unable to tell the difference between Ren's socialism and my Reagan-conservatism. This is what leads to such merriment among Goanet members whenever Marlon ventures out to embarrass himself:-))

Marlon wrote:

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income.

Mario observes:

"...medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes"????????

Patrice had referred to income taxes, and only income taxes can get a high income earner close to a 50% rate in some states, when federal, state and local income taxes are included.

Oh, I see what happened. Patrice had written I.T. which must have been confusing:-))
Patrice Riemens
2009-03-25 06:29:15 UTC
Permalink
What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] America - A Socialist Economy
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Marlon,
I would not describe the United Socialist States of America as
having?a socialist economy.
I would describe it as having a very PECULIAR socialist economy.
Here is the reason why.
When a public company makes profits, the profits are distributed
only to the risk takers or the wealthy.
When these same public companies make staggering losses,
management?gets a bonus and then the losses are distributed to
all?those who did not take any risks, but who are now the
bearers/sharers of the losses.
Abso-social-lutely amazing!
?
Another dubious program from the Bush era is the largest expansion
of socialized medicine ala its expansion of medicaid prescriptions for
the elderly.
Rest assured that every aspect of socialized medicine is going
to be expanded. USSA manufacturers are?at a competitive
disadvantage?verses companies in other?countries?that have?socialized
medicine. The?motor vehicle firms will be the first to be relieved of
their medical obligations.? After the medical expenses have been
outsourced to the govt, and local manufacturers still cannot compete
with international?firms,?the USSA govt will give loans to companies
that?cannot sell their products. The final socialist?step will be when
the govt converts those loans into shares to become the largest share
holder in the companies that cannot sell their products.?Yep, the
politicians are soon going to be appointing the directors and
management of USSA firms.
The US is still the most dynamic economy in the world, given
that it is still the most free market economy.
The above statement only works when you provide the numbers. For
example, the numbers that compares the dynamics of the economy of
China v/s that of the USSA. With out the numbers, your contention is
pure sentiment.
Lastly, I love this Obama? (blessed be, his name) guy.?It seems
that all the?TV news channels are carrying him live, twice a week. It
is?almost like a mini-series where the country cannot seem to get
enough of him.
?
?
Mervyn1650Lobo
Mario Goveia
2009-03-25 15:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:29:15 +0100
From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>

What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense ...

Mario responds:

Finally, someone with some good old Dutch common sense who has picked up on the "bizarre lunatic" stuff written by the ultra libertarian-anarchist voice on Goanet and magnified by his Canadian crony and his whimsical notions about the US.

Patrice, it's M-A-R-L-O-N who is our resident libertarian-anarchist. He is so right wing that he is in danger of falling off the planet:-))

He is NOT to be confused with M-A-R-I-O, who is a defender of the US system OVERALL, while recognizing all its faults, and the only voice on Goanet of reason, truth and peace, who keeps a sharp eye on the bizarre and the lunatics that lurk in the shadows of Goanet:-))

I'm glad you and your friends in the Netherlands had a good laugh, as many of us on Goanet did as well:-))

Because of its towering achievements in a short period in history, not too many people realize that the US, at 233 years of age, is still a work in progress, and things are not as good right now as in the past and will be again in the future.

The good news is that in a recent poll 86% of Americans blamed the government for the mess, which is a good sign, which will serve to control our new President and his teleprompter who wants MORE government intervention in the economy.

However, even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day:-)).

Total income taxes in the US, when you factor in Federal, state and local income taxes, can be in the 50% range in some states, especially for high income income earners. And our new President and his teleprompter are vowing to make Federal income taxes even higher.

Yes, the US is a relatively rich country, but for anyone who thinks the "rich" in the US don't pay more than their fair share of federal income taxes, please see: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Here is a summary:[figures rounded off]:

The top 1% of income earners earn 22% of total income and pay 40% of total federal income taxes.

The top 5% of income earners earn 37% of total income and pay 60% of total federal income taxes.

The top 10% of income earners earn 47% of total income and pay 71% of total federal income taxes.

The top 25% of income earners earn 68% of total income and pay 86% of total federal income taxes

The top 50% of income earners earn 87% of total income and pay 97% of total federal income taxes.

The bottom 50% of income earners earn 13% of total income and pay 3% of total federal income taxes.

Actually, the bottom 40% pay no federal income taxes at all. Many of these may be high school and college students for whom this is supplementary income in starter jobs. These are not to be confused with those with no income at all.

All poor Americans have access to a range of government and private assistance, contrary to popular myth.

Make of this what you wish, but these are just the facts.
goacom
2009-03-25 17:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Patrice,

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on. Perhaps he should have translated it in Dutch for you.

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income. And, I'm not including things like social security - something we pay for, but which is expected to be bankrupt but the time I retire. In the US we do get pretty crappy govt. services for the amount of money we pay. Perhaps some of this is because the US spends some of its wealth ensuring that you not be forced to speak in German or Russian :-)

Regarding welfare, you seem to have a vision of a socialized utopia like they do in parts of europe, where they even provide needles for drug addicts. But coming from India, I know what real poverty and suffering is. In a land of opportunities like the US, the poverty is of the mind, not the body and I believe the welfare state only serves to exacerbate this problem of unwarranted dependency. Perhaps we should send these people to Holland. We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Your comrade,

Marlon



--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl> wrote:


From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] American (USA) 'socialism'...
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:29 AM


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh?? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Mario Goveia
2009-03-26 13:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marlon Menezes

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on.

We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Mario responds:

Patrice,

You have no idea what you have achieved here:-)) Your description of his ideas as "...the most bizarre lunatic rightist fringe stuff..." has completely discombobulated Marlon, who is normally on the verbal attack and the facts be damned, but we here see him cowed and whimpering:-))

You can see the intellectual confusion - unable to tell the difference between Ren's socialism and my Reagan-conservatism. This is what leads to such merriment among Goanet members whenever Marlon ventures out to embarrass himself:-))

Marlon wrote:

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income.

Mario observes:

"...medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes"????????

Patrice had referred to income taxes, and only income taxes can get a high income earner close to a 50% rate in some states, when federal, state and local income taxes are included.

Oh, I see what happened. Patrice had written I.T. which must have been confusing:-))
Patrice Riemens
2009-03-25 06:29:15 UTC
Permalink
What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] America - A Socialist Economy
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Marlon,
I would not describe the United Socialist States of America as
having?a socialist economy.
I would describe it as having a very PECULIAR socialist economy.
Here is the reason why.
When a public company makes profits, the profits are distributed
only to the risk takers or the wealthy.
When these same public companies make staggering losses,
management?gets a bonus and then the losses are distributed to
all?those who did not take any risks, but who are now the
bearers/sharers of the losses.
Abso-social-lutely amazing!
?
Another dubious program from the Bush era is the largest expansion
of socialized medicine ala its expansion of medicaid prescriptions for
the elderly.
Rest assured that every aspect of socialized medicine is going
to be expanded. USSA manufacturers are?at a competitive
disadvantage?verses companies in other?countries?that have?socialized
medicine. The?motor vehicle firms will be the first to be relieved of
their medical obligations.? After the medical expenses have been
outsourced to the govt, and local manufacturers still cannot compete
with international?firms,?the USSA govt will give loans to companies
that?cannot sell their products. The final socialist?step will be when
the govt converts those loans into shares to become the largest share
holder in the companies that cannot sell their products.?Yep, the
politicians are soon going to be appointing the directors and
management of USSA firms.
The US is still the most dynamic economy in the world, given
that it is still the most free market economy.
The above statement only works when you provide the numbers. For
example, the numbers that compares the dynamics of the economy of
China v/s that of the USSA. With out the numbers, your contention is
pure sentiment.
Lastly, I love this Obama? (blessed be, his name) guy.?It seems
that all the?TV news channels are carrying him live, twice a week. It
is?almost like a mini-series where the country cannot seem to get
enough of him.
?
?
Mervyn1650Lobo
Mario Goveia
2009-03-25 15:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:29:15 +0100
From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>

What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense ...

Mario responds:

Finally, someone with some good old Dutch common sense who has picked up on the "bizarre lunatic" stuff written by the ultra libertarian-anarchist voice on Goanet and magnified by his Canadian crony and his whimsical notions about the US.

Patrice, it's M-A-R-L-O-N who is our resident libertarian-anarchist. He is so right wing that he is in danger of falling off the planet:-))

He is NOT to be confused with M-A-R-I-O, who is a defender of the US system OVERALL, while recognizing all its faults, and the only voice on Goanet of reason, truth and peace, who keeps a sharp eye on the bizarre and the lunatics that lurk in the shadows of Goanet:-))

I'm glad you and your friends in the Netherlands had a good laugh, as many of us on Goanet did as well:-))

Because of its towering achievements in a short period in history, not too many people realize that the US, at 233 years of age, is still a work in progress, and things are not as good right now as in the past and will be again in the future.

The good news is that in a recent poll 86% of Americans blamed the government for the mess, which is a good sign, which will serve to control our new President and his teleprompter who wants MORE government intervention in the economy.

However, even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day:-)).

Total income taxes in the US, when you factor in Federal, state and local income taxes, can be in the 50% range in some states, especially for high income income earners. And our new President and his teleprompter are vowing to make Federal income taxes even higher.

Yes, the US is a relatively rich country, but for anyone who thinks the "rich" in the US don't pay more than their fair share of federal income taxes, please see: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Here is a summary:[figures rounded off]:

The top 1% of income earners earn 22% of total income and pay 40% of total federal income taxes.

The top 5% of income earners earn 37% of total income and pay 60% of total federal income taxes.

The top 10% of income earners earn 47% of total income and pay 71% of total federal income taxes.

The top 25% of income earners earn 68% of total income and pay 86% of total federal income taxes

The top 50% of income earners earn 87% of total income and pay 97% of total federal income taxes.

The bottom 50% of income earners earn 13% of total income and pay 3% of total federal income taxes.

Actually, the bottom 40% pay no federal income taxes at all. Many of these may be high school and college students for whom this is supplementary income in starter jobs. These are not to be confused with those with no income at all.

All poor Americans have access to a range of government and private assistance, contrary to popular myth.

Make of this what you wish, but these are just the facts.
goacom
2009-03-25 17:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Patrice,

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on. Perhaps he should have translated it in Dutch for you.

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income. And, I'm not including things like social security - something we pay for, but which is expected to be bankrupt but the time I retire. In the US we do get pretty crappy govt. services for the amount of money we pay. Perhaps some of this is because the US spends some of its wealth ensuring that you not be forced to speak in German or Russian :-)

Regarding welfare, you seem to have a vision of a socialized utopia like they do in parts of europe, where they even provide needles for drug addicts. But coming from India, I know what real poverty and suffering is. In a land of opportunities like the US, the poverty is of the mind, not the body and I believe the welfare state only serves to exacerbate this problem of unwarranted dependency. Perhaps we should send these people to Holland. We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Your comrade,

Marlon



--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl> wrote:


From: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] American (USA) 'socialism'...
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:29 AM


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


What I Like about Goanet is than you can read the most bizarre lunatic
rightist fringe stuff I know exists, but I would never come across
otherwise. I send Mrlon (or Marion's) outlandish nonsense about
'socialist' USA with its 'socialist' medicine (Medicare) and its
outrageous taxation (40-60%, c'mon gimme a break! The US has one of
the LOWEST I.T. of the 'developed' countries, esp for the super-rich!
More like 20% -). I also very much like the idea to do away with
welfare altogether - why not with the welfare recipients too, while we
are at it? useles bummers,good for the Gharib Hatao treatment of
Sanjay Gandhi, huh?? Anyway I send the stuff to a Dutch list
(Kredietkrisis info) and we had a good laugh! My friend Rens from
Beijing/ Jeddah had also something to say,which I'll fwd separately

Cheers, patrizio & Diiiinooos!
Mario Goveia
2009-03-26 13:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marlon Menezes

Your friend Ren's comments regarding taxes and government in the US are actually dead on.

We can ship your new socialist friend Mario along with them too :-)

Mario responds:

Patrice,

You have no idea what you have achieved here:-)) Your description of his ideas as "...the most bizarre lunatic rightist fringe stuff..." has completely discombobulated Marlon, who is normally on the verbal attack and the facts be damned, but we here see him cowed and whimpering:-))

You can see the intellectual confusion - unable to tell the difference between Ren's socialism and my Reagan-conservatism. This is what leads to such merriment among Goanet members whenever Marlon ventures out to embarrass himself:-))

Marlon wrote:

Yes, our total taxes (federal income, state income, medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes) easily all add up to 40-60% of one's gross income.

Mario observes:

"...medicare, unemployment insurance, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes"????????

Patrice had referred to income taxes, and only income taxes can get a high income earner close to a 50% rate in some states, when federal, state and local income taxes are included.

Oh, I see what happened. Patrice had written I.T. which must have been confusing:-))
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