Discussion:
PIDE- Portugal's secret Police
(too old to reply)
Tony Barros
2013-01-04 18:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Folks !
?
As a student of journalism in north-western Tanzania, I was fortunate to have met
the American-trained Anthroplogy Professor and first President of the Mozambican
liberation movement- Frelimo when he addressed us during our tour of the
capital-Dar es Salaam . That was on? September 25, 1967 - the fifth anniversary
of the? start of the liberation struggle against the Portuguese dictatorship led by Salazar
and subsequently by Caetano.
?
In November 1968, I met him and his lovely American wife outside my home
in Iringa, southern Tanzania after returning from church on a bright sunny morning.
I had a long chat? and told them that I had just completed my reserve
army training - fortunately? also on the outskirts of Iringa and that I was going ?to
Dar es Salaam? to take up a job as ?my first fulltime job as a reporter with the
country's major English newspaper- owned by "Lonrho" ?the British mining giant
led by the controversial Chairman- "Tiny" Rowland.
?
Two months later, when opening a? package ?addressed to him at the home of the
American business executive-Betty King, he was killed by a package bomb
which destroyed his body to "pieces".
?
Initial and subsequent investigations carried out by the Tanzanian CID and Intepol
pointed "fingers" at PIDE. The irony of it all is that PIDE not only used a foriegn-
born agent in a goan - ostensibly called Almeida- but they were very successful
in using their greatest "mole" in? Frelimo's first Vice-President- Rev. Uriah Simango
who said the funeral mass in the capital.
?
Three years later, PIDE? claimed? another African victim in Cabral - the head of
the liberation movement in? Guinea Bissau.. (his brother took over the reins of
the party and the country).
?
So why did PIDE resort to thse is dastardly acts and on a wider spectrum- very
repressive measures -both at home and at the colonies.
?
The? succesfull Frelimo struggle ?- though long and protracted - paved the
way for? liberation movements from other Portuguese?colonies including
Sao Tome,Principe and Angola? which had three groups.
?
The birth of the African Liberation Commiittee- the liberation "wing ?of the
Organization of African Unity? in 1965- added? a "thorn" to Portugal's chances
of? keeping these colonies.
?
Portugal was particularly worried about losing??Angola- 14 times it size and and its
huge oil??wealth. As at January1975, there were about?half a million white Portuguese
nationals in Angola. (most of them went to? South Africa).
?
But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
?
This included getting sophisticated military hardware, the establishment of
training grounds and bases - both abroad and ?in some african countries- notably
Tanzanian and Zambia,??and otherr forms of aid -mainly from the Scandinavian
countries and India.
?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
?
So the Commiitee was forced to resort to Communist countriues like
Russia and China and Algeria- whose Frelimo Representative was
Oscar Monteiro- the highest ranking goan in Samora Machel's
first government.
?
Unlike the events surrounding the December 1961 events in Goa,
The African liberation struggle was a great litmus test for Portugal and they
soon realized they were fighting a well trained guerilla warfare. With no
Christmas? and other Christian celebrations, it was a 365-day war
"seeping" not only into their limited budget , but also on their military.
?
Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the african colonies.
?
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
?
The April 1974 overthrow of the right-wing dictatorship changed the
whole landcape and Spinola did not hesitate to play his cards well-
aided by? the very smart and flamboyant ?Foreign Minsiter, Dr. Mario
Soares whom I intervewed after his return from the Zambian capital-
Lusaka where the instruments for? Mozambique's independence were ratified.
?
From a goan perspective, the Spinola government finally recognized
Goa as not being part of Portugal; for both the Salazar and Caetano
governments continued to recognize Goa as an overseas province
even though they had neither De Jure nor De Facto control.
?
I have been told by many people that one of the master-minds and
architects of the April 1974 coup was the Mapusa-based goan
journalist- Aquino Braganza who intenselly ?studied sucessfull and
failed coups before requesting the army to make the "move"
?
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last name-Barros).
?
At our daily newspaper "Post-mortem" where we review all the stories,
my die-hard racist Managing Editor , Sammy Mdee told us all? that
Aquino is in town and I do not want anyone to meet him. (He hated
Indians- but respected me and my brother-in-law - a senior airline
executive who got?his?wife a job at the airline).
?
Since I was the country's only Goan journalist, I was determined to
meet and probably chat with him. I came to kniow that there was a
party later in the night for the delegation; so I "gate-crashed" misusing
my press card and managed to get in.
?
What surprised me? about? Aquino was that he was ??surrounded by
so many people all waiting to talk to him; whilst very few people
were speaking to Machel?. I had to be content with merely introducing
myself to him
?
Machel appointed him as his personal assistant and during his? three trips
to India, he would make it a point to go to Goa to visit Aquino's sick mother
in Mapusa.
?
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
?
His second wife- Graca (Grace) Simbine who was the Education Minsiter
in his first cabinet? later ?became the second wife of South Africa's first President -
Nelson Mandela? giving her the unique positon of being the? first- if not
the only woman in the world- to be married to Heads of States of two
different countries.
?
When Machel married Graca, We received a State House notification
from the Office of Tanzania's first President- Julius Nyerere - that we
should only refer to her my her maiden name.
?
It was apparently felt that Machel's? first wife and fellow freedom fighter-
Josina Machel-??should use his last name. Josina died at a Dar Es Salaam
hospital on April 7, 1972- the same day that Zanziibar's strongman and
Tanzania's First Vice-President- Abeid Amani Karume was
assassinated. (I covered her first anniversary death service).
?
My 1970 Managing Edictor- the controversial , unpopular, ?but highly
educated South African born Parsee- Miss ?Frene Ginwalla?- ?wrote a thesis
for her Masters at Oxford University, England on african liberation movements.
She later got a? doctorate? from Oxford in addition to two law degrees from
England's prestigious Inns of? Court.
?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
?
Unfortunately, the only goan who could give us a wealth of information
on the african national ?liberation scene ?was my good friend and fellow
Velim village mate - Eduardo Judas Barros - the late Professor of
Communications at Sao Paulo University in Brazil . Eduardo - a catholic
priest turned Marxist- was very well known to all the politicians who
manned the former Portuguuse colonies? in addition to being the
Vice-President of the South American Public Relations Association.
?
Cheers.
?
Tony Barros.
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-06 04:42:30 UTC
Permalink
?But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
Tony,
While you are only a few years older than me, I am always amazed at what those few earlier years allowed you to witness and remember. With regards to liberation movements in Dar, you will remember that FRELIMO headquarter's was in one of the building across from Co-Cabs. One year a bomb went off at the FRELIMO office. That five story building, and the two?adjacent?to it, had a Goan family living on almost every floor. Had that bomb been more powerful, there would have been a lot more deaths. This was state sponsored terrorism in its purest form.?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because?they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
For the info of the non-Africans here, Africans, inspired by India, began to form political parties in the 1950's in order to regain their independence. The leaders of these political parties were first jailed and then the parties were banned. Faced with no alternative, the locals took up the armed struggle. Nelson Mandela was charged as a terrorist and jailed. The capitalist world, increasingly paranoid about Soviet influence, backed any govt that would protect its source of raw materials. As an example, as late as 1986, Dick Cheney was insisting that the ANC was a terrorist organisation.?He was also voting in the US Congress then, that Mandela should remain in jail.?
?Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the?african colonies.
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
Let me add that by 1974, Portugal was spending 40% of its budget on its military. Taxes of hard working?Portuguese?citizens were wasted around the world. There is only one economic outcome when this happens. The tax payers get poorer and the economy of the country collapses. It is no wonder that a revolution took place in Portugal at the height of its military spending?extravaganza.
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last?name-Barros).
Actually, with your 6ft frame and black beard, you looked more like a revolutionary than a journalist then.
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
Tony, Samora's plane was not shot down. It crashed in S. Africa. Till this very day, Samora's widow, now Mandela's wife, insists that the Soviet built plane with its Soviet air force crew were following a false beacon hidden in the hills of S. Africa. That beacon was using the radio frequency of the Maputo airport. A commercial LAM flight from Lisbon to Maputo flying at the same time also reported confusing signals.?The?apartheid S. African govt of the time quickly announced that they found alcohol in the blood of the Soviet crew and hence the cause of the crash. ?

The crash opened the eyes of the security world to what was really going on in S. Africa. The?apartheid?regime did not live much longer.?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
You have not mentioned your relationship with your direct boss at the "Daily News" who went on the become the third President of Tanzania. I know Mkapa was at a 'welcome' function at the Dar Institute a few weeks after he was sworn in.

Returning to the topic of this post, soon after independence Nyerere announced that no one could feel free when another member of the family was in prison. He then organised support for all the liberation movements and Dar became the mecca of every revolutionary. Here?is a picture of Nyerere with Aquino Braganza at a garden party at the State House. These two men were, in my opinion, the most?responsible?for the liberation of the Portuguese colonies in Africa. They defeated PIDE and its brutality. ?I tried my best to spot you in the crowd but will not be surprised if you said that you were there.

http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/with-mwalimu-the-teacher-julius-nyerere/


Mervyn????????
Bernado Colaco
2013-01-07 06:21:20 UTC
Permalink
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 00:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Bernado,

That is NOT entirely true. The ones who are making hay AHORA are your folks inw the Shinese!

The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality.

NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.

BTW: these folks might still argue that the violence which followed has been described as a CIVIL war.

jc
Post by Bernado Colaco
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
BC
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-08 14:23:09 UTC
Permalink
The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from?
the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK?
(which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to?
procure Portuguese nationality.
NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.
jc,
I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE or the colonial system. Colonialism?collapsed?over 50 years ago and I will leave it to those who remember the same, to write about the pros and cons of the good ol' days.?

Secondly, there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to?suggest?that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.?

As for your comment on why and where people live,?I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

As an example, with my skill set, I can find a job in Colvale paying me Rs. 5,000 per month. I can perhaps find a job in Panjim paying me Rs. 10,000 per month. The same skill set secures me a job paying Rs. 20,000 per month in Mumbai, Rs. 100,000 per month in Tanzania or Rs. 250,000 per month in Washington, D.C.

Some people, relatives included, are quite content working and living in Colvale. Others are forced by economic circumstances to seek better paying jobs elsewhere. Yet others are drawn by a sense of adventure and are willing to trade off the good life they have for the prospect of a better life elsewhere.???

These are only some of the reasons why, till this very day, people are moving in and out of Goa, Tanzania and Canada. ? I must?emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.?
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization.?
Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in?
the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed?
at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.?
BC,
I put you on ignore more than a decade ago.?
You have just given me a confirmation that I did the correct thing then.


Mervyn
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 22:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Re the following from me: "The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality. NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries."

Mervyn Lobo responded thus:

1: jc, I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE etc

2: there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to suggest that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.

3:.As for your comment on why and where people live, I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

4: I must emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.

RESPONSE:

Dear ML,

Allow me to state that the following:

a: dark forces eg the Secret Police and Colonialism are the scum of this earth.
b: it is not only the PIDE or Portugal/UK which practiced/practice this dark art of subjugation by force.

c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.

BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as classmates in college.

d: the vision of the future surely (and rightly) determines our decision to travel or not. So much so that, I hear, some really anti-Portugal chaps are in presently gainfully employed in Portugal and others have re-affirmed their Portuguese nationality, albeit 'chupe chupe' ( on the sly ).

jc
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". Tch Tch !!
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-09 01:38:08 UTC
Permalink
c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the?
people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at?
the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.?
Doc,
I guess part of the problem here is that there were four countries in E. Africa.?

Kenya was a Colony and as such the Kenyans had to resort to a violent struggle for independence. That violence remained after independence and some of the very people who fought for it were told in no?uncertain?terms to leave or die.?Violence still remains in that country and manifested itself in the last elections. ?

Uganda was a Protectorate. After Idi Amin was installed, he went on a rampage. The Asians who got kicked out were the lucky ones. He started killing?thousands?of people after that.?

Tanganyika was a Trust Territory administered by?Britain?for the UN. All Nyerere had to do was petition the UN for independence. Ours was a peaceful transition and society?remains?so till this very day.?

Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania just like Goa got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are?disgrunted?people in Zanzibar who want to?separate.?

Hence, Goans who live(d) in different parts of E. Africa have had vastly different political and living experiences.?
BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those?
who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as?
classmates in college.
I think I have had a fair amount of contact with "desi folks," both in college and outside.
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was
about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". ?Tch Tch !!
Don't worry.?BC will soon afford me reciprocal favours.


Mervyn
Jose Colaco
2013-01-10 01:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca> wrote: " Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are disgrunted people in Zanzibar who want to separate."

RESPONSE:

No my dear Mervyn, Zanzibar did NOT get absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA for the following reasons:

1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.

2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.

3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent. So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)

That there still are Zanzibarians who are upset by the Tanzanian union is NOT equivalent to some Goans being upset about the 1961 annexation. It is an apples and orange distinction.

BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the the "action" right.

I am not very sure WHY "we" are trying to defend the indefensible, and that too by way of Revision. I thought the VideoCD chaps tried that and failed.

The basic fact is that IF we say that we are champions of democracy, we ought to ensure self determination.

Is it not intriguing that the other stalwart of the Non Aligned Movement (NAM) ie Indonesia, annexed East Timor but (eventually, after much bloodshed and overseas pressure) agreed to a referendum?

Let us never forget: In the age of "post-Kingdoms and post-Colonial" self-relization, disputed territories which are commandeered or held on to, are like Cemeteries or so-called Haunted Houses. The general atmosphere (whether one believes in spirits or not) will be troubled for a very very long time to come. Look at N. Ireland, Kashmir, or even the land ( T. Bert) annexed by BC's primos.... and other areas you surely know of.

jc
I have exhausted my thoughts on this matter, for now at least. Besides, amanha, my Christmas/New Year's break comes to an end. We too have to earn a living.

BTW: the EA country I was referring to in my previous post was Kenya.
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-10 04:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a fancy way of saying they ruled through a puppet Sultan. The British left in Dec 1963, a revolution took place the following month and three months later Zanzibar (re-)united with the mainland (I use re-united as at one time, the Zanzibar Empire extended from Somali in the north to Mozambique in the south and as far inland as Lake Tanganyika.)??


To put the events of 1963/64 in perspective, my Zanzibar born grand-mother came to visit us for Christmas in Dec 1963. She left from her home in Zanzibar, part of the British Empire and arrived in Tanganyika, a newly independent country. After Christmas she left Tanganyika and returned to her home in her own country, newly independent Zanzibar. Two months later she came to visit us for Easter. This time she left an independent Zanzibar and arrived in independent Tanganyika. After Easter, she left Tanzania and returned to her home in Tanzania.


The Govts of Zanzibar and Tanganyika were not involved in the decisions to form the United Republic of Tanzania. Less than a dozen people were privy to the discussions taking place. For example, the Attorney General of Zanzibar at the time (a Goan) was sent on leave during the week the merger talks were taking place. He had no input in the constitution of the new union or country. ?


The real sad part of all this is that Nyerere was so popular with the voters at the time, that he could have won approval of any referendum to cement the union. He chose not to have one. Dissent has been brewing ever since and these dissenters now seem to be an ugly force.


It is only the very near sighted who will take a country and break it into parts. The world of tomorrow understands that there is no country that will be able progress economically by relying on its own population and resources. In order to survive, every advanced country is running around trying to form economic unions to secure the free flow of goods, labour and ideas. Countries in Europe, Germany and France for example, who have been at each others?throats for?centuries, have decided to bury the bitterness?and, instead, strive for an economic union and even a common currency.?

Economic prosperity occurs when you have something to gain from you neighbours. When you label your?neighbour?as the enemy, prosperity goes into reverse gear. Every tribal or?parochial?society experiences this. As such, regardless of how Goa got absorbed into the Indian union, Goa should be thankful it is part of it. Free and fair elections are held?regularly and the most popular party is voted into power. This is something Portugal?did not afford Goa in the centuries it was there. In fact, their last act was to try and hang on to power via PIDE.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
eric pinto
2013-01-10 21:35:05 UTC
Permalink
?? To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
?? They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
? They found a client in the goon of Jammu, a savage Dogra named Gulab Singh:
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
? The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
?? The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations.??????? eric.
war
?
?
?
???
??


________________________________
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
To: GOANET <goanet at goanet.org>
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a had no input in the constitution of the new union or country.??

.?
.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-11 04:49:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by eric pinto
To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
Doc,
The British preached morality but practiced something else. All they were interested in was their own sphere of influence. In Africa, they drew the borders?splitting a lot, a lot, of?tribes into two nationalities. Prime example are the Masai. The Jaluo (Obama's tribe) got split into four countries. The Pashtun got treated almost the same, but were also given the prize choice of deciding whether to become Indians or Pakistani's at?separation.
Post by eric pinto
The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations. ? ? ??
I miss the days of Marshal Tito and the Non-Aligned Movement. I am not sure what Nehru did to be in contention for the Nobel Peace Prize but he did screw up royally with his adventure into Goa. I am not sure what his contribution to Kenyan independence was but I know a lot of?Mozambicans?got trained in India prior to their independence. In fact, while working in Tanzania, I once got a notice that a statistician would be coming over to gather some numbers. The notice was signed by a very Goan sounding name and I was wondering who was this Goan in the Ministry of Finance that I did not know. The guy who came to our site was a?Mozambican who had been trained in India. When he saw my boss and me, he started to speak in Hindi. Very few Indians in E. Africa understand Hindi. Gujarati is the language spoken in the business?community there. ??


Returning to morality, after being attacked by Iddi Amin, Julius Nyerere drove him out of Uganda, installed a new Ugandan President, and then left. The thinking was, we got rid of your monster, now sort out your leadership problems on your own.?Similarly, the idea of helping nations regain their independence is not one that should come with strings. The helper often finds the concept of providing a supporting hand, a reward in itself. In this regard, the people with the best morals today, I feel are the Scandinavians. They give help without the need to secure an advantage or even thanks.?


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-11 04:49:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by eric pinto
To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
Doc,
The British preached morality but practiced something else. All they were interested in was their own sphere of influence. In Africa, they drew the borders?splitting a lot, a lot, of?tribes into two nationalities. Prime example are the Masai. The Jaluo (Obama's tribe) got split into four countries. The Pashtun got treated almost the same, but were also given the prize choice of deciding whether to become Indians or Pakistani's at?separation.
Post by eric pinto
The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations. ? ? ??
I miss the days of Marshal Tito and the Non-Aligned Movement. I am not sure what Nehru did to be in contention for the Nobel Peace Prize but he did screw up royally with his adventure into Goa. I am not sure what his contribution to Kenyan independence was but I know a lot of?Mozambicans?got trained in India prior to their independence. In fact, while working in Tanzania, I once got a notice that a statistician would be coming over to gather some numbers. The notice was signed by a very Goan sounding name and I was wondering who was this Goan in the Ministry of Finance that I did not know. The guy who came to our site was a?Mozambican who had been trained in India. When he saw my boss and me, he started to speak in Hindi. Very few Indians in E. Africa understand Hindi. Gujarati is the language spoken in the business?community there. ??


Returning to morality, after being attacked by Iddi Amin, Julius Nyerere drove him out of Uganda, installed a new Ugandan President, and then left. The thinking was, we got rid of your monster, now sort out your leadership problems on your own.?Similarly, the idea of helping nations regain their independence is not one that should come with strings. The helper often finds the concept of providing a supporting hand, a reward in itself. In this regard, the people with the best morals today, I feel are the Scandinavians. They give help without the need to secure an advantage or even thanks.?


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-11 04:49:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by eric pinto
To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
Doc,
The British preached morality but practiced something else. All they were interested in was their own sphere of influence. In Africa, they drew the borders?splitting a lot, a lot, of?tribes into two nationalities. Prime example are the Masai. The Jaluo (Obama's tribe) got split into four countries. The Pashtun got treated almost the same, but were also given the prize choice of deciding whether to become Indians or Pakistani's at?separation.
Post by eric pinto
The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations. ? ? ??
I miss the days of Marshal Tito and the Non-Aligned Movement. I am not sure what Nehru did to be in contention for the Nobel Peace Prize but he did screw up royally with his adventure into Goa. I am not sure what his contribution to Kenyan independence was but I know a lot of?Mozambicans?got trained in India prior to their independence. In fact, while working in Tanzania, I once got a notice that a statistician would be coming over to gather some numbers. The notice was signed by a very Goan sounding name and I was wondering who was this Goan in the Ministry of Finance that I did not know. The guy who came to our site was a?Mozambican who had been trained in India. When he saw my boss and me, he started to speak in Hindi. Very few Indians in E. Africa understand Hindi. Gujarati is the language spoken in the business?community there. ??


Returning to morality, after being attacked by Iddi Amin, Julius Nyerere drove him out of Uganda, installed a new Ugandan President, and then left. The thinking was, we got rid of your monster, now sort out your leadership problems on your own.?Similarly, the idea of helping nations regain their independence is not one that should come with strings. The helper often finds the concept of providing a supporting hand, a reward in itself. In this regard, the people with the best morals today, I feel are the Scandinavians. They give help without the need to secure an advantage or even thanks.?


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-11 04:49:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by eric pinto
To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
Doc,
The British preached morality but practiced something else. All they were interested in was their own sphere of influence. In Africa, they drew the borders?splitting a lot, a lot, of?tribes into two nationalities. Prime example are the Masai. The Jaluo (Obama's tribe) got split into four countries. The Pashtun got treated almost the same, but were also given the prize choice of deciding whether to become Indians or Pakistani's at?separation.
Post by eric pinto
The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations. ? ? ??
I miss the days of Marshal Tito and the Non-Aligned Movement. I am not sure what Nehru did to be in contention for the Nobel Peace Prize but he did screw up royally with his adventure into Goa. I am not sure what his contribution to Kenyan independence was but I know a lot of?Mozambicans?got trained in India prior to their independence. In fact, while working in Tanzania, I once got a notice that a statistician would be coming over to gather some numbers. The notice was signed by a very Goan sounding name and I was wondering who was this Goan in the Ministry of Finance that I did not know. The guy who came to our site was a?Mozambican who had been trained in India. When he saw my boss and me, he started to speak in Hindi. Very few Indians in E. Africa understand Hindi. Gujarati is the language spoken in the business?community there. ??


Returning to morality, after being attacked by Iddi Amin, Julius Nyerere drove him out of Uganda, installed a new Ugandan President, and then left. The thinking was, we got rid of your monster, now sort out your leadership problems on your own.?Similarly, the idea of helping nations regain their independence is not one that should come with strings. The helper often finds the concept of providing a supporting hand, a reward in itself. In this regard, the people with the best morals today, I feel are the Scandinavians. They give help without the need to secure an advantage or even thanks.?


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-11 04:49:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by eric pinto
To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
Doc,
The British preached morality but practiced something else. All they were interested in was their own sphere of influence. In Africa, they drew the borders?splitting a lot, a lot, of?tribes into two nationalities. Prime example are the Masai. The Jaluo (Obama's tribe) got split into four countries. The Pashtun got treated almost the same, but were also given the prize choice of deciding whether to become Indians or Pakistani's at?separation.
Post by eric pinto
The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations. ? ? ??
I miss the days of Marshal Tito and the Non-Aligned Movement. I am not sure what Nehru did to be in contention for the Nobel Peace Prize but he did screw up royally with his adventure into Goa. I am not sure what his contribution to Kenyan independence was but I know a lot of?Mozambicans?got trained in India prior to their independence. In fact, while working in Tanzania, I once got a notice that a statistician would be coming over to gather some numbers. The notice was signed by a very Goan sounding name and I was wondering who was this Goan in the Ministry of Finance that I did not know. The guy who came to our site was a?Mozambican who had been trained in India. When he saw my boss and me, he started to speak in Hindi. Very few Indians in E. Africa understand Hindi. Gujarati is the language spoken in the business?community there. ??


Returning to morality, after being attacked by Iddi Amin, Julius Nyerere drove him out of Uganda, installed a new Ugandan President, and then left. The thinking was, we got rid of your monster, now sort out your leadership problems on your own.?Similarly, the idea of helping nations regain their independence is not one that should come with strings. The helper often finds the concept of providing a supporting hand, a reward in itself. In this regard, the people with the best morals today, I feel are the Scandinavians. They give help without the need to secure an advantage or even thanks.?


Mervyn

eric pinto
2013-01-10 21:35:05 UTC
Permalink
?? To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
?? They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
? They found a client in the goon of Jammu, a savage Dogra named Gulab Singh:
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
? The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
?? The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations.??????? eric.
war
?
?
?
???
??


________________________________
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
To: GOANET <goanet at goanet.org>
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a had no input in the constitution of the new union or country.??

.?
.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
eric pinto
2013-01-10 21:35:05 UTC
Permalink
?? To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
?? They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
? They found a client in the goon of Jammu, a savage Dogra named Gulab Singh:
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
? The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
?? The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations.??????? eric.
war
?
?
?
???
??


________________________________
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
To: GOANET <goanet at goanet.org>
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a had no input in the constitution of the new union or country.??

.?
.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
eric pinto
2013-01-10 21:35:05 UTC
Permalink
?? To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
?? They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
? They found a client in the goon of Jammu, a savage Dogra named Gulab Singh:
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
? The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
?? The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations.??????? eric.
war
?
?
?
???
??


________________________________
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
To: GOANET <goanet at goanet.org>
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a had no input in the constitution of the new union or country.??

.?
.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
eric pinto
2013-01-10 21:35:05 UTC
Permalink
?? To stop the Czar from reaching Karachi, a winter port for Russia, ?Britain
seized seventy percent of Afghanistan; ?That goal was attained.
?? They found it impossible to control two thousand miles of Pashtun turf,
from the Arabian Sea to Hunza, and decided to dump the mountainous north.
? They found a client in the goon of Jammu, a savage Dogra named Gulab Singh:
?the price -?a princely 75 lacs. Gulab's grandson sought Indian protection in 1947.
? The relentless Pashtun struggle for independence continues. They shot
PM Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, and Benazir sixty years later.? There were a
dozen attempts on the life of Musharaff.? You know enough about our side of
the cease-fire line.
?? The perennial candidate for that famous Peace Prize had financed Sukarno's
bloody war against the Dutch, Kenyatta's war and? Frelimo. They can thank the
communist who ran the Defence Ministry.? We did not see much by way of
gratefulness from the three nations.??????? eric.
war
?
?
?
???
??


________________________________
From: Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca>
To: GOANET <goanet at goanet.org>
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a had no input in the constitution of the new union or country.??

.?
.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-10 04:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a fancy way of saying they ruled through a puppet Sultan. The British left in Dec 1963, a revolution took place the following month and three months later Zanzibar (re-)united with the mainland (I use re-united as at one time, the Zanzibar Empire extended from Somali in the north to Mozambique in the south and as far inland as Lake Tanganyika.)??


To put the events of 1963/64 in perspective, my Zanzibar born grand-mother came to visit us for Christmas in Dec 1963. She left from her home in Zanzibar, part of the British Empire and arrived in Tanganyika, a newly independent country. After Christmas she left Tanganyika and returned to her home in her own country, newly independent Zanzibar. Two months later she came to visit us for Easter. This time she left an independent Zanzibar and arrived in independent Tanganyika. After Easter, she left Tanzania and returned to her home in Tanzania.


The Govts of Zanzibar and Tanganyika were not involved in the decisions to form the United Republic of Tanzania. Less than a dozen people were privy to the discussions taking place. For example, the Attorney General of Zanzibar at the time (a Goan) was sent on leave during the week the merger talks were taking place. He had no input in the constitution of the new union or country. ?


The real sad part of all this is that Nyerere was so popular with the voters at the time, that he could have won approval of any referendum to cement the union. He chose not to have one. Dissent has been brewing ever since and these dissenters now seem to be an ugly force.


It is only the very near sighted who will take a country and break it into parts. The world of tomorrow understands that there is no country that will be able progress economically by relying on its own population and resources. In order to survive, every advanced country is running around trying to form economic unions to secure the free flow of goods, labour and ideas. Countries in Europe, Germany and France for example, who have been at each others?throats for?centuries, have decided to bury the bitterness?and, instead, strive for an economic union and even a common currency.?

Economic prosperity occurs when you have something to gain from you neighbours. When you label your?neighbour?as the enemy, prosperity goes into reverse gear. Every tribal or?parochial?society experiences this. As such, regardless of how Goa got absorbed into the Indian union, Goa should be thankful it is part of it. Free and fair elections are held?regularly and the most popular party is voted into power. This is something Portugal?did not afford Goa in the centuries it was there. In fact, their last act was to try and hang on to power via PIDE.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-10 04:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a fancy way of saying they ruled through a puppet Sultan. The British left in Dec 1963, a revolution took place the following month and three months later Zanzibar (re-)united with the mainland (I use re-united as at one time, the Zanzibar Empire extended from Somali in the north to Mozambique in the south and as far inland as Lake Tanganyika.)??


To put the events of 1963/64 in perspective, my Zanzibar born grand-mother came to visit us for Christmas in Dec 1963. She left from her home in Zanzibar, part of the British Empire and arrived in Tanganyika, a newly independent country. After Christmas she left Tanganyika and returned to her home in her own country, newly independent Zanzibar. Two months later she came to visit us for Easter. This time she left an independent Zanzibar and arrived in independent Tanganyika. After Easter, she left Tanzania and returned to her home in Tanzania.


The Govts of Zanzibar and Tanganyika were not involved in the decisions to form the United Republic of Tanzania. Less than a dozen people were privy to the discussions taking place. For example, the Attorney General of Zanzibar at the time (a Goan) was sent on leave during the week the merger talks were taking place. He had no input in the constitution of the new union or country. ?


The real sad part of all this is that Nyerere was so popular with the voters at the time, that he could have won approval of any referendum to cement the union. He chose not to have one. Dissent has been brewing ever since and these dissenters now seem to be an ugly force.


It is only the very near sighted who will take a country and break it into parts. The world of tomorrow understands that there is no country that will be able progress economically by relying on its own population and resources. In order to survive, every advanced country is running around trying to form economic unions to secure the free flow of goods, labour and ideas. Countries in Europe, Germany and France for example, who have been at each others?throats for?centuries, have decided to bury the bitterness?and, instead, strive for an economic union and even a common currency.?

Economic prosperity occurs when you have something to gain from you neighbours. When you label your?neighbour?as the enemy, prosperity goes into reverse gear. Every tribal or?parochial?society experiences this. As such, regardless of how Goa got absorbed into the Indian union, Goa should be thankful it is part of it. Free and fair elections are held?regularly and the most popular party is voted into power. This is something Portugal?did not afford Goa in the centuries it was there. In fact, their last act was to try and hang on to power via PIDE.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-10 04:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a fancy way of saying they ruled through a puppet Sultan. The British left in Dec 1963, a revolution took place the following month and three months later Zanzibar (re-)united with the mainland (I use re-united as at one time, the Zanzibar Empire extended from Somali in the north to Mozambique in the south and as far inland as Lake Tanganyika.)??


To put the events of 1963/64 in perspective, my Zanzibar born grand-mother came to visit us for Christmas in Dec 1963. She left from her home in Zanzibar, part of the British Empire and arrived in Tanganyika, a newly independent country. After Christmas she left Tanganyika and returned to her home in her own country, newly independent Zanzibar. Two months later she came to visit us for Easter. This time she left an independent Zanzibar and arrived in independent Tanganyika. After Easter, she left Tanzania and returned to her home in Tanzania.


The Govts of Zanzibar and Tanganyika were not involved in the decisions to form the United Republic of Tanzania. Less than a dozen people were privy to the discussions taking place. For example, the Attorney General of Zanzibar at the time (a Goan) was sent on leave during the week the merger talks were taking place. He had no input in the constitution of the new union or country. ?


The real sad part of all this is that Nyerere was so popular with the voters at the time, that he could have won approval of any referendum to cement the union. He chose not to have one. Dissent has been brewing ever since and these dissenters now seem to be an ugly force.


It is only the very near sighted who will take a country and break it into parts. The world of tomorrow understands that there is no country that will be able progress economically by relying on its own population and resources. In order to survive, every advanced country is running around trying to form economic unions to secure the free flow of goods, labour and ideas. Countries in Europe, Germany and France for example, who have been at each others?throats for?centuries, have decided to bury the bitterness?and, instead, strive for an economic union and even a common currency.?

Economic prosperity occurs when you have something to gain from you neighbours. When you label your?neighbour?as the enemy, prosperity goes into reverse gear. Every tribal or?parochial?society experiences this. As such, regardless of how Goa got absorbed into the Indian union, Goa should be thankful it is part of it. Free and fair elections are held?regularly and the most popular party is voted into power. This is something Portugal?did not afford Goa in the centuries it was there. In fact, their last act was to try and hang on to power via PIDE.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-10 04:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jose Colaco
1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.
2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or?
? ?annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.
3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent.?
? ?So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of?
? ?Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make?
? ?any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not?
? ?TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....
? ?without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)
Doc,
Zanzibar was a British Protectorate, which is just a fancy way of saying they ruled through a puppet Sultan. The British left in Dec 1963, a revolution took place the following month and three months later Zanzibar (re-)united with the mainland (I use re-united as at one time, the Zanzibar Empire extended from Somali in the north to Mozambique in the south and as far inland as Lake Tanganyika.)??


To put the events of 1963/64 in perspective, my Zanzibar born grand-mother came to visit us for Christmas in Dec 1963. She left from her home in Zanzibar, part of the British Empire and arrived in Tanganyika, a newly independent country. After Christmas she left Tanganyika and returned to her home in her own country, newly independent Zanzibar. Two months later she came to visit us for Easter. This time she left an independent Zanzibar and arrived in independent Tanganyika. After Easter, she left Tanzania and returned to her home in Tanzania.


The Govts of Zanzibar and Tanganyika were not involved in the decisions to form the United Republic of Tanzania. Less than a dozen people were privy to the discussions taking place. For example, the Attorney General of Zanzibar at the time (a Goan) was sent on leave during the week the merger talks were taking place. He had no input in the constitution of the new union or country. ?


The real sad part of all this is that Nyerere was so popular with the voters at the time, that he could have won approval of any referendum to cement the union. He chose not to have one. Dissent has been brewing ever since and these dissenters now seem to be an ugly force.


It is only the very near sighted who will take a country and break it into parts. The world of tomorrow understands that there is no country that will be able progress economically by relying on its own population and resources. In order to survive, every advanced country is running around trying to form economic unions to secure the free flow of goods, labour and ideas. Countries in Europe, Germany and France for example, who have been at each others?throats for?centuries, have decided to bury the bitterness?and, instead, strive for an economic union and even a common currency.?

Economic prosperity occurs when you have something to gain from you neighbours. When you label your?neighbour?as the enemy, prosperity goes into reverse gear. Every tribal or?parochial?society experiences this. As such, regardless of how Goa got absorbed into the Indian union, Goa should be thankful it is part of it. Free and fair elections are held?regularly and the most popular party is voted into power. This is something Portugal?did not afford Goa in the centuries it was there. In fact, their last act was to try and hang on to power via PIDE.?
Post by Jose Colaco
?BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the
?Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the
?the "action" right.
Amen.


Mervyn
Jose Colaco
2013-01-10 01:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca> wrote: " Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are disgrunted people in Zanzibar who want to separate."

RESPONSE:

No my dear Mervyn, Zanzibar did NOT get absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA for the following reasons:

1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.

2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.

3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent. So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)

That there still are Zanzibarians who are upset by the Tanzanian union is NOT equivalent to some Goans being upset about the 1961 annexation. It is an apples and orange distinction.

BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the the "action" right.

I am not very sure WHY "we" are trying to defend the indefensible, and that too by way of Revision. I thought the VideoCD chaps tried that and failed.

The basic fact is that IF we say that we are champions of democracy, we ought to ensure self determination.

Is it not intriguing that the other stalwart of the Non Aligned Movement (NAM) ie Indonesia, annexed East Timor but (eventually, after much bloodshed and overseas pressure) agreed to a referendum?

Let us never forget: In the age of "post-Kingdoms and post-Colonial" self-relization, disputed territories which are commandeered or held on to, are like Cemeteries or so-called Haunted Houses. The general atmosphere (whether one believes in spirits or not) will be troubled for a very very long time to come. Look at N. Ireland, Kashmir, or even the land ( T. Bert) annexed by BC's primos.... and other areas you surely know of.

jc
I have exhausted my thoughts on this matter, for now at least. Besides, amanha, my Christmas/New Year's break comes to an end. We too have to earn a living.

BTW: the EA country I was referring to in my previous post was Kenya.
Jose Colaco
2013-01-10 01:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca> wrote: " Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are disgrunted people in Zanzibar who want to separate."

RESPONSE:

No my dear Mervyn, Zanzibar did NOT get absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA for the following reasons:

1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.

2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.

3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent. So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)

That there still are Zanzibarians who are upset by the Tanzanian union is NOT equivalent to some Goans being upset about the 1961 annexation. It is an apples and orange distinction.

BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the the "action" right.

I am not very sure WHY "we" are trying to defend the indefensible, and that too by way of Revision. I thought the VideoCD chaps tried that and failed.

The basic fact is that IF we say that we are champions of democracy, we ought to ensure self determination.

Is it not intriguing that the other stalwart of the Non Aligned Movement (NAM) ie Indonesia, annexed East Timor but (eventually, after much bloodshed and overseas pressure) agreed to a referendum?

Let us never forget: In the age of "post-Kingdoms and post-Colonial" self-relization, disputed territories which are commandeered or held on to, are like Cemeteries or so-called Haunted Houses. The general atmosphere (whether one believes in spirits or not) will be troubled for a very very long time to come. Look at N. Ireland, Kashmir, or even the land ( T. Bert) annexed by BC's primos.... and other areas you surely know of.

jc
I have exhausted my thoughts on this matter, for now at least. Besides, amanha, my Christmas/New Year's break comes to an end. We too have to earn a living.

BTW: the EA country I was referring to in my previous post was Kenya.
Jose Colaco
2013-01-10 01:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca> wrote: " Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are disgrunted people in Zanzibar who want to separate."

RESPONSE:

No my dear Mervyn, Zanzibar did NOT get absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA for the following reasons:

1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.

2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.

3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent. So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)

That there still are Zanzibarians who are upset by the Tanzanian union is NOT equivalent to some Goans being upset about the 1961 annexation. It is an apples and orange distinction.

BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the the "action" right.

I am not very sure WHY "we" are trying to defend the indefensible, and that too by way of Revision. I thought the VideoCD chaps tried that and failed.

The basic fact is that IF we say that we are champions of democracy, we ought to ensure self determination.

Is it not intriguing that the other stalwart of the Non Aligned Movement (NAM) ie Indonesia, annexed East Timor but (eventually, after much bloodshed and overseas pressure) agreed to a referendum?

Let us never forget: In the age of "post-Kingdoms and post-Colonial" self-relization, disputed territories which are commandeered or held on to, are like Cemeteries or so-called Haunted Houses. The general atmosphere (whether one believes in spirits or not) will be troubled for a very very long time to come. Look at N. Ireland, Kashmir, or even the land ( T. Bert) annexed by BC's primos.... and other areas you surely know of.

jc
I have exhausted my thoughts on this matter, for now at least. Besides, amanha, my Christmas/New Year's break comes to an end. We too have to earn a living.

BTW: the EA country I was referring to in my previous post was Kenya.
Jose Colaco
2013-01-10 01:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn Lobo <mervynalobo at yahoo.ca> wrote: " Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are disgrunted people in Zanzibar who want to separate."

RESPONSE:

No my dear Mervyn, Zanzibar did NOT get absorbed into Tanzania JUST LIKE GOA for the following reasons:

1: There was NO Tanzania before the mutually agreed union of Tanganika and Zanzibar.

2: Goa was annexed following an invasion by Indian armed forces. No such invasion or annexation of Zanzibar by Tanganikan forces occurred.

3: At the time of the Tanzanian "union" somewhere in the late 1970s, both entities were independent. So the question of the presence or absence of a referendum is not comparable. Governments of Independent countries have a right (depending upon their Constitution, if they have one) to make any decision they wish, without referendums or opening a bottle of wine - as long as they do not TREPASS or otherwise interfere with another country/protectorate or state of another country.....without prior provocation. ( please let's NOT repeat the fishing boat nonsense)

That there still are Zanzibarians who are upset by the Tanzanian union is NOT equivalent to some Goans being upset about the 1961 annexation. It is an apples and orange distinction.

BTW: most reasonable and sensible Goans, yours truly included, have accepted the Fait Accompli and charted their own forward courses. That fact does NOT make the the "action" right.

I am not very sure WHY "we" are trying to defend the indefensible, and that too by way of Revision. I thought the VideoCD chaps tried that and failed.

The basic fact is that IF we say that we are champions of democracy, we ought to ensure self determination.

Is it not intriguing that the other stalwart of the Non Aligned Movement (NAM) ie Indonesia, annexed East Timor but (eventually, after much bloodshed and overseas pressure) agreed to a referendum?

Let us never forget: In the age of "post-Kingdoms and post-Colonial" self-relization, disputed territories which are commandeered or held on to, are like Cemeteries or so-called Haunted Houses. The general atmosphere (whether one believes in spirits or not) will be troubled for a very very long time to come. Look at N. Ireland, Kashmir, or even the land ( T. Bert) annexed by BC's primos.... and other areas you surely know of.

jc
I have exhausted my thoughts on this matter, for now at least. Besides, amanha, my Christmas/New Year's break comes to an end. We too have to earn a living.

BTW: the EA country I was referring to in my previous post was Kenya.
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-09 01:38:08 UTC
Permalink
c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the?
people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at?
the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.?
Doc,
I guess part of the problem here is that there were four countries in E. Africa.?

Kenya was a Colony and as such the Kenyans had to resort to a violent struggle for independence. That violence remained after independence and some of the very people who fought for it were told in no?uncertain?terms to leave or die.?Violence still remains in that country and manifested itself in the last elections. ?

Uganda was a Protectorate. After Idi Amin was installed, he went on a rampage. The Asians who got kicked out were the lucky ones. He started killing?thousands?of people after that.?

Tanganyika was a Trust Territory administered by?Britain?for the UN. All Nyerere had to do was petition the UN for independence. Ours was a peaceful transition and society?remains?so till this very day.?

Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania just like Goa got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are?disgrunted?people in Zanzibar who want to?separate.?

Hence, Goans who live(d) in different parts of E. Africa have had vastly different political and living experiences.?
BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those?
who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as?
classmates in college.
I think I have had a fair amount of contact with "desi folks," both in college and outside.
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was
about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". ?Tch Tch !!
Don't worry.?BC will soon afford me reciprocal favours.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-09 01:38:08 UTC
Permalink
c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the?
people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at?
the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.?
Doc,
I guess part of the problem here is that there were four countries in E. Africa.?

Kenya was a Colony and as such the Kenyans had to resort to a violent struggle for independence. That violence remained after independence and some of the very people who fought for it were told in no?uncertain?terms to leave or die.?Violence still remains in that country and manifested itself in the last elections. ?

Uganda was a Protectorate. After Idi Amin was installed, he went on a rampage. The Asians who got kicked out were the lucky ones. He started killing?thousands?of people after that.?

Tanganyika was a Trust Territory administered by?Britain?for the UN. All Nyerere had to do was petition the UN for independence. Ours was a peaceful transition and society?remains?so till this very day.?

Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania just like Goa got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are?disgrunted?people in Zanzibar who want to?separate.?

Hence, Goans who live(d) in different parts of E. Africa have had vastly different political and living experiences.?
BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those?
who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as?
classmates in college.
I think I have had a fair amount of contact with "desi folks," both in college and outside.
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was
about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". ?Tch Tch !!
Don't worry.?BC will soon afford me reciprocal favours.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-09 01:38:08 UTC
Permalink
c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the?
people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at?
the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.?
Doc,
I guess part of the problem here is that there were four countries in E. Africa.?

Kenya was a Colony and as such the Kenyans had to resort to a violent struggle for independence. That violence remained after independence and some of the very people who fought for it were told in no?uncertain?terms to leave or die.?Violence still remains in that country and manifested itself in the last elections. ?

Uganda was a Protectorate. After Idi Amin was installed, he went on a rampage. The Asians who got kicked out were the lucky ones. He started killing?thousands?of people after that.?

Tanganyika was a Trust Territory administered by?Britain?for the UN. All Nyerere had to do was petition the UN for independence. Ours was a peaceful transition and society?remains?so till this very day.?

Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania just like Goa got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are?disgrunted?people in Zanzibar who want to?separate.?

Hence, Goans who live(d) in different parts of E. Africa have had vastly different political and living experiences.?
BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those?
who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as?
classmates in college.
I think I have had a fair amount of contact with "desi folks," both in college and outside.
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was
about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". ?Tch Tch !!
Don't worry.?BC will soon afford me reciprocal favours.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-09 01:38:08 UTC
Permalink
c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the?
people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at?
the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.?
Doc,
I guess part of the problem here is that there were four countries in E. Africa.?

Kenya was a Colony and as such the Kenyans had to resort to a violent struggle for independence. That violence remained after independence and some of the very people who fought for it were told in no?uncertain?terms to leave or die.?Violence still remains in that country and manifested itself in the last elections. ?

Uganda was a Protectorate. After Idi Amin was installed, he went on a rampage. The Asians who got kicked out were the lucky ones. He started killing?thousands?of people after that.?

Tanganyika was a Trust Territory administered by?Britain?for the UN. All Nyerere had to do was petition the UN for independence. Ours was a peaceful transition and society?remains?so till this very day.?

Zanzibar got absorbed into Tanzania just like Goa got absorbed into India i.e. without a referendum. To this very day, there are?disgrunted?people in Zanzibar who want to?separate.?

Hence, Goans who live(d) in different parts of E. Africa have had vastly different political and living experiences.?
BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those?
who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as?
classmates in college.
I think I have had a fair amount of contact with "desi folks," both in college and outside.
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was
about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". ?Tch Tch !!
Don't worry.?BC will soon afford me reciprocal favours.


Mervyn
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 22:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Re the following from me: "The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality. NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries."

Mervyn Lobo responded thus:

1: jc, I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE etc

2: there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to suggest that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.

3:.As for your comment on why and where people live, I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

4: I must emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.

RESPONSE:

Dear ML,

Allow me to state that the following:

a: dark forces eg the Secret Police and Colonialism are the scum of this earth.
b: it is not only the PIDE or Portugal/UK which practiced/practice this dark art of subjugation by force.

c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.

BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as classmates in college.

d: the vision of the future surely (and rightly) determines our decision to travel or not. So much so that, I hear, some really anti-Portugal chaps are in presently gainfully employed in Portugal and others have re-affirmed their Portuguese nationality, albeit 'chupe chupe' ( on the sly ).

jc
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". Tch Tch !!
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 22:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Re the following from me: "The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality. NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries."

Mervyn Lobo responded thus:

1: jc, I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE etc

2: there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to suggest that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.

3:.As for your comment on why and where people live, I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

4: I must emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.

RESPONSE:

Dear ML,

Allow me to state that the following:

a: dark forces eg the Secret Police and Colonialism are the scum of this earth.
b: it is not only the PIDE or Portugal/UK which practiced/practice this dark art of subjugation by force.

c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.

BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as classmates in college.

d: the vision of the future surely (and rightly) determines our decision to travel or not. So much so that, I hear, some really anti-Portugal chaps are in presently gainfully employed in Portugal and others have re-affirmed their Portuguese nationality, albeit 'chupe chupe' ( on the sly ).

jc
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". Tch Tch !!
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 22:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Re the following from me: "The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality. NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries."

Mervyn Lobo responded thus:

1: jc, I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE etc

2: there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to suggest that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.

3:.As for your comment on why and where people live, I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

4: I must emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.

RESPONSE:

Dear ML,

Allow me to state that the following:

a: dark forces eg the Secret Police and Colonialism are the scum of this earth.
b: it is not only the PIDE or Portugal/UK which practiced/practice this dark art of subjugation by force.

c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.

BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as classmates in college.

d: the vision of the future surely (and rightly) determines our decision to travel or not. So much so that, I hear, some really anti-Portugal chaps are in presently gainfully employed in Portugal and others have re-affirmed their Portuguese nationality, albeit 'chupe chupe' ( on the sly ).

jc
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". Tch Tch !!
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 22:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Re the following from me: "The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality. NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries."

Mervyn Lobo responded thus:

1: jc, I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE etc

2: there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to suggest that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.

3:.As for your comment on why and where people live, I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

4: I must emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.

RESPONSE:

Dear ML,

Allow me to state that the following:

a: dark forces eg the Secret Police and Colonialism are the scum of this earth.
b: it is not only the PIDE or Portugal/UK which practiced/practice this dark art of subjugation by force.

c: I am not in the business of making 'helium filled' statements. I KNOW the people I am referring to. One of the families, I personally know, suffered at the hands of the very folks (in EA) the menfolk struggled for.

BTW : I am not sure how much contact you have had with desi folk (esp those who have emigrated from East Africa to the West) or IF you had them as classmates in college.

d: the vision of the future surely (and rightly) determines our decision to travel or not. So much so that, I hear, some really anti-Portugal chaps are in presently gainfully employed in Portugal and others have re-affirmed their Portuguese nationality, albeit 'chupe chupe' ( on the sly ).

jc
ps: I am very disappointed that you have publicly dissed BC just when he was about to present his treatise " Independencia para T. Bert". Tch Tch !!
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-08 14:23:09 UTC
Permalink
The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from?
the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK?
(which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to?
procure Portuguese nationality.
NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.
jc,
I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE or the colonial system. Colonialism?collapsed?over 50 years ago and I will leave it to those who remember the same, to write about the pros and cons of the good ol' days.?

Secondly, there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to?suggest?that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.?

As for your comment on why and where people live,?I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

As an example, with my skill set, I can find a job in Colvale paying me Rs. 5,000 per month. I can perhaps find a job in Panjim paying me Rs. 10,000 per month. The same skill set secures me a job paying Rs. 20,000 per month in Mumbai, Rs. 100,000 per month in Tanzania or Rs. 250,000 per month in Washington, D.C.

Some people, relatives included, are quite content working and living in Colvale. Others are forced by economic circumstances to seek better paying jobs elsewhere. Yet others are drawn by a sense of adventure and are willing to trade off the good life they have for the prospect of a better life elsewhere.???

These are only some of the reasons why, till this very day, people are moving in and out of Goa, Tanzania and Canada. ? I must?emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.?
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization.?
Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in?
the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed?
at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.?
BC,
I put you on ignore more than a decade ago.?
You have just given me a confirmation that I did the correct thing then.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-08 14:23:09 UTC
Permalink
The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from?
the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK?
(which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to?
procure Portuguese nationality.
NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.
jc,
I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE or the colonial system. Colonialism?collapsed?over 50 years ago and I will leave it to those who remember the same, to write about the pros and cons of the good ol' days.?

Secondly, there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to?suggest?that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.?

As for your comment on why and where people live,?I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

As an example, with my skill set, I can find a job in Colvale paying me Rs. 5,000 per month. I can perhaps find a job in Panjim paying me Rs. 10,000 per month. The same skill set secures me a job paying Rs. 20,000 per month in Mumbai, Rs. 100,000 per month in Tanzania or Rs. 250,000 per month in Washington, D.C.

Some people, relatives included, are quite content working and living in Colvale. Others are forced by economic circumstances to seek better paying jobs elsewhere. Yet others are drawn by a sense of adventure and are willing to trade off the good life they have for the prospect of a better life elsewhere.???

These are only some of the reasons why, till this very day, people are moving in and out of Goa, Tanzania and Canada. ? I must?emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.?
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization.?
Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in?
the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed?
at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.?
BC,
I put you on ignore more than a decade ago.?
You have just given me a confirmation that I did the correct thing then.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-08 14:23:09 UTC
Permalink
The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from?
the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK?
(which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to?
procure Portuguese nationality.
NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.
jc,
I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE or the colonial system. Colonialism?collapsed?over 50 years ago and I will leave it to those who remember the same, to write about the pros and cons of the good ol' days.?

Secondly, there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to?suggest?that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.?

As for your comment on why and where people live,?I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

As an example, with my skill set, I can find a job in Colvale paying me Rs. 5,000 per month. I can perhaps find a job in Panjim paying me Rs. 10,000 per month. The same skill set secures me a job paying Rs. 20,000 per month in Mumbai, Rs. 100,000 per month in Tanzania or Rs. 250,000 per month in Washington, D.C.

Some people, relatives included, are quite content working and living in Colvale. Others are forced by economic circumstances to seek better paying jobs elsewhere. Yet others are drawn by a sense of adventure and are willing to trade off the good life they have for the prospect of a better life elsewhere.???

These are only some of the reasons why, till this very day, people are moving in and out of Goa, Tanzania and Canada. ? I must?emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.?
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization.?
Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in?
the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed?
at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.?
BC,
I put you on ignore more than a decade ago.?
You have just given me a confirmation that I did the correct thing then.


Mervyn
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-08 14:23:09 UTC
Permalink
The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from?
the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK?
(which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to?
procure Portuguese nationality.
NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.
jc,
I was born around the time colonialism was collapsing, have not experienced it nor can comment on why people then wanted to get rid of PIDE or the colonial system. Colonialism?collapsed?over 50 years ago and I will leave it to those who remember the same, to write about the pros and cons of the good ol' days.?

Secondly, there are a lot of people here who are anti-racist but I do not think there is anyone here who is anti-white. It is also absurd to?suggest?that an anti-white person would migrate to a white country.?

As for your comment on why and where people live,?I believe almost everyone on this forum is an expert on the same, including the people who currently reside in Goa.

As an example, with my skill set, I can find a job in Colvale paying me Rs. 5,000 per month. I can perhaps find a job in Panjim paying me Rs. 10,000 per month. The same skill set secures me a job paying Rs. 20,000 per month in Mumbai, Rs. 100,000 per month in Tanzania or Rs. 250,000 per month in Washington, D.C.

Some people, relatives included, are quite content working and living in Colvale. Others are forced by economic circumstances to seek better paying jobs elsewhere. Yet others are drawn by a sense of adventure and are willing to trade off the good life they have for the prospect of a better life elsewhere.???

These are only some of the reasons why, till this very day, people are moving in and out of Goa, Tanzania and Canada. ? I must?emphasize that the decision to move or stay put depends on ones vision of the future and not ones view of the past.?
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization.?
Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in?
the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed?
at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.?
BC,
I put you on ignore more than a decade ago.?
You have just given me a confirmation that I did the correct thing then.


Mervyn
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 00:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Bernado,

That is NOT entirely true. The ones who are making hay AHORA are your folks inw the Shinese!

The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality.

NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.

BTW: these folks might still argue that the violence which followed has been described as a CIVIL war.

jc
Post by Bernado Colaco
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
BC
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 00:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Bernado,

That is NOT entirely true. The ones who are making hay AHORA are your folks inw the Shinese!

The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality.

NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.

BTW: these folks might still argue that the violence which followed has been described as a CIVIL war.

jc
Post by Bernado Colaco
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
BC
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 00:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Bernado,

That is NOT entirely true. The ones who are making hay AHORA are your folks inw the Shinese!

The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality.

NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.

BTW: these folks might still argue that the violence which followed has been described as a CIVIL war.

jc
Post by Bernado Colaco
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
BC
Jose Colaco
2013-01-08 00:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Bernado,

That is NOT entirely true. The ones who are making hay AHORA are your folks inw the Shinese!

The irony of all this is that almost ALL of the folks from East Africa who shouted from the roof tops about Colonialism and were anti-'white' eventually migrated to the UK (which still has colonies) or to other "white" countries......and some even opted to procure Portuguese nationality.

NOT very sure WHY they did not to stay on and develop the Free countries.

BTW: these folks might still argue that the violence which followed has been described as a CIVIL war.

jc
Post by Bernado Colaco
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
BC
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2013-01-08 07:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear Bernado,
???? I am learning so much from you today!
???? "Forced decolonization"---that is such a lovely phrase! It implies that the colonies should not have been decolonized, would not have been decolonized, could not have been decolonized, unless some stupid fool idiot people had forced the colonizers to finally decolonize what they should not have colonized in the first place! So many accidents of history, to complicate our understanding of history!
???? In this interesting post, are you also saying that Frelimo fighters and other African freedom seekers, once they got their own freedom, moved to shanty towns around Lisbon, and thousands of them died in the civil war in Portugal? Was there a civil war in Portugal? Of course there was! The War of the Carnations!
???? We, the people of Bharat, eagerly await your next post.
???? Regards,
???? Victor

--- On Mon, 1/7/13, Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Goanet] PIDE- Portugal's secret Police
To: "goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 1:21 AM

What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Tony Barros
2013-01-04 18:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Folks !
?
As a student of journalism in north-western Tanzania, I was fortunate to have met
the American-trained Anthroplogy Professor and first President of the Mozambican
liberation movement- Frelimo when he addressed us during our tour of the
capital-Dar es Salaam . That was on? September 25, 1967 - the fifth anniversary
of the? start of the liberation struggle against the Portuguese dictatorship led by Salazar
and subsequently by Caetano.
?
In November 1968, I met him and his lovely American wife outside my home
in Iringa, southern Tanzania after returning from church on a bright sunny morning.
I had a long chat? and told them that I had just completed my reserve
army training - fortunately? also on the outskirts of Iringa and that I was going ?to
Dar es Salaam? to take up a job as ?my first fulltime job as a reporter with the
country's major English newspaper- owned by "Lonrho" ?the British mining giant
led by the controversial Chairman- "Tiny" Rowland.
?
Two months later, when opening a? package ?addressed to him at the home of the
American business executive-Betty King, he was killed by a package bomb
which destroyed his body to "pieces".
?
Initial and subsequent investigations carried out by the Tanzanian CID and Intepol
pointed "fingers" at PIDE. The irony of it all is that PIDE not only used a foriegn-
born agent in a goan - ostensibly called Almeida- but they were very successful
in using their greatest "mole" in? Frelimo's first Vice-President- Rev. Uriah Simango
who said the funeral mass in the capital.
?
Three years later, PIDE? claimed? another African victim in Cabral - the head of
the liberation movement in? Guinea Bissau.. (his brother took over the reins of
the party and the country).
?
So why did PIDE resort to thse is dastardly acts and on a wider spectrum- very
repressive measures -both at home and at the colonies.
?
The? succesfull Frelimo struggle ?- though long and protracted - paved the
way for? liberation movements from other Portuguese?colonies including
Sao Tome,Principe and Angola? which had three groups.
?
The birth of the African Liberation Commiittee- the liberation "wing ?of the
Organization of African Unity? in 1965- added? a "thorn" to Portugal's chances
of? keeping these colonies.
?
Portugal was particularly worried about losing??Angola- 14 times it size and and its
huge oil??wealth. As at January1975, there were about?half a million white Portuguese
nationals in Angola. (most of them went to? South Africa).
?
But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
?
This included getting sophisticated military hardware, the establishment of
training grounds and bases - both abroad and ?in some african countries- notably
Tanzanian and Zambia,??and otherr forms of aid -mainly from the Scandinavian
countries and India.
?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
?
So the Commiitee was forced to resort to Communist countriues like
Russia and China and Algeria- whose Frelimo Representative was
Oscar Monteiro- the highest ranking goan in Samora Machel's
first government.
?
Unlike the events surrounding the December 1961 events in Goa,
The African liberation struggle was a great litmus test for Portugal and they
soon realized they were fighting a well trained guerilla warfare. With no
Christmas? and other Christian celebrations, it was a 365-day war
"seeping" not only into their limited budget , but also on their military.
?
Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the african colonies.
?
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
?
The April 1974 overthrow of the right-wing dictatorship changed the
whole landcape and Spinola did not hesitate to play his cards well-
aided by? the very smart and flamboyant ?Foreign Minsiter, Dr. Mario
Soares whom I intervewed after his return from the Zambian capital-
Lusaka where the instruments for? Mozambique's independence were ratified.
?
From a goan perspective, the Spinola government finally recognized
Goa as not being part of Portugal; for both the Salazar and Caetano
governments continued to recognize Goa as an overseas province
even though they had neither De Jure nor De Facto control.
?
I have been told by many people that one of the master-minds and
architects of the April 1974 coup was the Mapusa-based goan
journalist- Aquino Braganza who intenselly ?studied sucessfull and
failed coups before requesting the army to make the "move"
?
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last name-Barros).
?
At our daily newspaper "Post-mortem" where we review all the stories,
my die-hard racist Managing Editor , Sammy Mdee told us all? that
Aquino is in town and I do not want anyone to meet him. (He hated
Indians- but respected me and my brother-in-law - a senior airline
executive who got?his?wife a job at the airline).
?
Since I was the country's only Goan journalist, I was determined to
meet and probably chat with him. I came to kniow that there was a
party later in the night for the delegation; so I "gate-crashed" misusing
my press card and managed to get in.
?
What surprised me? about? Aquino was that he was ??surrounded by
so many people all waiting to talk to him; whilst very few people
were speaking to Machel?. I had to be content with merely introducing
myself to him
?
Machel appointed him as his personal assistant and during his? three trips
to India, he would make it a point to go to Goa to visit Aquino's sick mother
in Mapusa.
?
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
?
His second wife- Graca (Grace) Simbine who was the Education Minsiter
in his first cabinet? later ?became the second wife of South Africa's first President -
Nelson Mandela? giving her the unique positon of being the? first- if not
the only woman in the world- to be married to Heads of States of two
different countries.
?
When Machel married Graca, We received a State House notification
from the Office of Tanzania's first President- Julius Nyerere - that we
should only refer to her my her maiden name.
?
It was apparently felt that Machel's? first wife and fellow freedom fighter-
Josina Machel-??should use his last name. Josina died at a Dar Es Salaam
hospital on April 7, 1972- the same day that Zanziibar's strongman and
Tanzania's First Vice-President- Abeid Amani Karume was
assassinated. (I covered her first anniversary death service).
?
My 1970 Managing Edictor- the controversial , unpopular, ?but highly
educated South African born Parsee- Miss ?Frene Ginwalla?- ?wrote a thesis
for her Masters at Oxford University, England on african liberation movements.
She later got a? doctorate? from Oxford in addition to two law degrees from
England's prestigious Inns of? Court.
?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
?
Unfortunately, the only goan who could give us a wealth of information
on the african national ?liberation scene ?was my good friend and fellow
Velim village mate - Eduardo Judas Barros - the late Professor of
Communications at Sao Paulo University in Brazil . Eduardo - a catholic
priest turned Marxist- was very well known to all the politicians who
manned the former Portuguuse colonies? in addition to being the
Vice-President of the South American Public Relations Association.
?
Cheers.
?
Tony Barros.
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-06 04:42:30 UTC
Permalink
?But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
Tony,
While you are only a few years older than me, I am always amazed at what those few earlier years allowed you to witness and remember. With regards to liberation movements in Dar, you will remember that FRELIMO headquarter's was in one of the building across from Co-Cabs. One year a bomb went off at the FRELIMO office. That five story building, and the two?adjacent?to it, had a Goan family living on almost every floor. Had that bomb been more powerful, there would have been a lot more deaths. This was state sponsored terrorism in its purest form.?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because?they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
For the info of the non-Africans here, Africans, inspired by India, began to form political parties in the 1950's in order to regain their independence. The leaders of these political parties were first jailed and then the parties were banned. Faced with no alternative, the locals took up the armed struggle. Nelson Mandela was charged as a terrorist and jailed. The capitalist world, increasingly paranoid about Soviet influence, backed any govt that would protect its source of raw materials. As an example, as late as 1986, Dick Cheney was insisting that the ANC was a terrorist organisation.?He was also voting in the US Congress then, that Mandela should remain in jail.?
?Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the?african colonies.
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
Let me add that by 1974, Portugal was spending 40% of its budget on its military. Taxes of hard working?Portuguese?citizens were wasted around the world. There is only one economic outcome when this happens. The tax payers get poorer and the economy of the country collapses. It is no wonder that a revolution took place in Portugal at the height of its military spending?extravaganza.
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last?name-Barros).
Actually, with your 6ft frame and black beard, you looked more like a revolutionary than a journalist then.
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
Tony, Samora's plane was not shot down. It crashed in S. Africa. Till this very day, Samora's widow, now Mandela's wife, insists that the Soviet built plane with its Soviet air force crew were following a false beacon hidden in the hills of S. Africa. That beacon was using the radio frequency of the Maputo airport. A commercial LAM flight from Lisbon to Maputo flying at the same time also reported confusing signals.?The?apartheid S. African govt of the time quickly announced that they found alcohol in the blood of the Soviet crew and hence the cause of the crash. ?

The crash opened the eyes of the security world to what was really going on in S. Africa. The?apartheid?regime did not live much longer.?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
You have not mentioned your relationship with your direct boss at the "Daily News" who went on the become the third President of Tanzania. I know Mkapa was at a 'welcome' function at the Dar Institute a few weeks after he was sworn in.

Returning to the topic of this post, soon after independence Nyerere announced that no one could feel free when another member of the family was in prison. He then organised support for all the liberation movements and Dar became the mecca of every revolutionary. Here?is a picture of Nyerere with Aquino Braganza at a garden party at the State House. These two men were, in my opinion, the most?responsible?for the liberation of the Portuguese colonies in Africa. They defeated PIDE and its brutality. ?I tried my best to spot you in the crowd but will not be surprised if you said that you were there.

http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/with-mwalimu-the-teacher-julius-nyerere/


Mervyn????????
Bernado Colaco
2013-01-07 06:21:20 UTC
Permalink
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2013-01-08 07:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear Bernado,
???? I am learning so much from you today!
???? "Forced decolonization"---that is such a lovely phrase! It implies that the colonies should not have been decolonized, would not have been decolonized, could not have been decolonized, unless some stupid fool idiot people had forced the colonizers to finally decolonize what they should not have colonized in the first place! So many accidents of history, to complicate our understanding of history!
???? In this interesting post, are you also saying that Frelimo fighters and other African freedom seekers, once they got their own freedom, moved to shanty towns around Lisbon, and thousands of them died in the civil war in Portugal? Was there a civil war in Portugal? Of course there was! The War of the Carnations!
???? We, the people of Bharat, eagerly await your next post.
???? Regards,
???? Victor

--- On Mon, 1/7/13, Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Goanet] PIDE- Portugal's secret Police
To: "goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 1:21 AM

What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Tony Barros
2013-01-04 18:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Folks !
?
As a student of journalism in north-western Tanzania, I was fortunate to have met
the American-trained Anthroplogy Professor and first President of the Mozambican
liberation movement- Frelimo when he addressed us during our tour of the
capital-Dar es Salaam . That was on? September 25, 1967 - the fifth anniversary
of the? start of the liberation struggle against the Portuguese dictatorship led by Salazar
and subsequently by Caetano.
?
In November 1968, I met him and his lovely American wife outside my home
in Iringa, southern Tanzania after returning from church on a bright sunny morning.
I had a long chat? and told them that I had just completed my reserve
army training - fortunately? also on the outskirts of Iringa and that I was going ?to
Dar es Salaam? to take up a job as ?my first fulltime job as a reporter with the
country's major English newspaper- owned by "Lonrho" ?the British mining giant
led by the controversial Chairman- "Tiny" Rowland.
?
Two months later, when opening a? package ?addressed to him at the home of the
American business executive-Betty King, he was killed by a package bomb
which destroyed his body to "pieces".
?
Initial and subsequent investigations carried out by the Tanzanian CID and Intepol
pointed "fingers" at PIDE. The irony of it all is that PIDE not only used a foriegn-
born agent in a goan - ostensibly called Almeida- but they were very successful
in using their greatest "mole" in? Frelimo's first Vice-President- Rev. Uriah Simango
who said the funeral mass in the capital.
?
Three years later, PIDE? claimed? another African victim in Cabral - the head of
the liberation movement in? Guinea Bissau.. (his brother took over the reins of
the party and the country).
?
So why did PIDE resort to thse is dastardly acts and on a wider spectrum- very
repressive measures -both at home and at the colonies.
?
The? succesfull Frelimo struggle ?- though long and protracted - paved the
way for? liberation movements from other Portuguese?colonies including
Sao Tome,Principe and Angola? which had three groups.
?
The birth of the African Liberation Commiittee- the liberation "wing ?of the
Organization of African Unity? in 1965- added? a "thorn" to Portugal's chances
of? keeping these colonies.
?
Portugal was particularly worried about losing??Angola- 14 times it size and and its
huge oil??wealth. As at January1975, there were about?half a million white Portuguese
nationals in Angola. (most of them went to? South Africa).
?
But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
?
This included getting sophisticated military hardware, the establishment of
training grounds and bases - both abroad and ?in some african countries- notably
Tanzanian and Zambia,??and otherr forms of aid -mainly from the Scandinavian
countries and India.
?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
?
So the Commiitee was forced to resort to Communist countriues like
Russia and China and Algeria- whose Frelimo Representative was
Oscar Monteiro- the highest ranking goan in Samora Machel's
first government.
?
Unlike the events surrounding the December 1961 events in Goa,
The African liberation struggle was a great litmus test for Portugal and they
soon realized they were fighting a well trained guerilla warfare. With no
Christmas? and other Christian celebrations, it was a 365-day war
"seeping" not only into their limited budget , but also on their military.
?
Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the african colonies.
?
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
?
The April 1974 overthrow of the right-wing dictatorship changed the
whole landcape and Spinola did not hesitate to play his cards well-
aided by? the very smart and flamboyant ?Foreign Minsiter, Dr. Mario
Soares whom I intervewed after his return from the Zambian capital-
Lusaka where the instruments for? Mozambique's independence were ratified.
?
From a goan perspective, the Spinola government finally recognized
Goa as not being part of Portugal; for both the Salazar and Caetano
governments continued to recognize Goa as an overseas province
even though they had neither De Jure nor De Facto control.
?
I have been told by many people that one of the master-minds and
architects of the April 1974 coup was the Mapusa-based goan
journalist- Aquino Braganza who intenselly ?studied sucessfull and
failed coups before requesting the army to make the "move"
?
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last name-Barros).
?
At our daily newspaper "Post-mortem" where we review all the stories,
my die-hard racist Managing Editor , Sammy Mdee told us all? that
Aquino is in town and I do not want anyone to meet him. (He hated
Indians- but respected me and my brother-in-law - a senior airline
executive who got?his?wife a job at the airline).
?
Since I was the country's only Goan journalist, I was determined to
meet and probably chat with him. I came to kniow that there was a
party later in the night for the delegation; so I "gate-crashed" misusing
my press card and managed to get in.
?
What surprised me? about? Aquino was that he was ??surrounded by
so many people all waiting to talk to him; whilst very few people
were speaking to Machel?. I had to be content with merely introducing
myself to him
?
Machel appointed him as his personal assistant and during his? three trips
to India, he would make it a point to go to Goa to visit Aquino's sick mother
in Mapusa.
?
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
?
His second wife- Graca (Grace) Simbine who was the Education Minsiter
in his first cabinet? later ?became the second wife of South Africa's first President -
Nelson Mandela? giving her the unique positon of being the? first- if not
the only woman in the world- to be married to Heads of States of two
different countries.
?
When Machel married Graca, We received a State House notification
from the Office of Tanzania's first President- Julius Nyerere - that we
should only refer to her my her maiden name.
?
It was apparently felt that Machel's? first wife and fellow freedom fighter-
Josina Machel-??should use his last name. Josina died at a Dar Es Salaam
hospital on April 7, 1972- the same day that Zanziibar's strongman and
Tanzania's First Vice-President- Abeid Amani Karume was
assassinated. (I covered her first anniversary death service).
?
My 1970 Managing Edictor- the controversial , unpopular, ?but highly
educated South African born Parsee- Miss ?Frene Ginwalla?- ?wrote a thesis
for her Masters at Oxford University, England on african liberation movements.
She later got a? doctorate? from Oxford in addition to two law degrees from
England's prestigious Inns of? Court.
?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
?
Unfortunately, the only goan who could give us a wealth of information
on the african national ?liberation scene ?was my good friend and fellow
Velim village mate - Eduardo Judas Barros - the late Professor of
Communications at Sao Paulo University in Brazil . Eduardo - a catholic
priest turned Marxist- was very well known to all the politicians who
manned the former Portuguuse colonies? in addition to being the
Vice-President of the South American Public Relations Association.
?
Cheers.
?
Tony Barros.
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-06 04:42:30 UTC
Permalink
?But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
Tony,
While you are only a few years older than me, I am always amazed at what those few earlier years allowed you to witness and remember. With regards to liberation movements in Dar, you will remember that FRELIMO headquarter's was in one of the building across from Co-Cabs. One year a bomb went off at the FRELIMO office. That five story building, and the two?adjacent?to it, had a Goan family living on almost every floor. Had that bomb been more powerful, there would have been a lot more deaths. This was state sponsored terrorism in its purest form.?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because?they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
For the info of the non-Africans here, Africans, inspired by India, began to form political parties in the 1950's in order to regain their independence. The leaders of these political parties were first jailed and then the parties were banned. Faced with no alternative, the locals took up the armed struggle. Nelson Mandela was charged as a terrorist and jailed. The capitalist world, increasingly paranoid about Soviet influence, backed any govt that would protect its source of raw materials. As an example, as late as 1986, Dick Cheney was insisting that the ANC was a terrorist organisation.?He was also voting in the US Congress then, that Mandela should remain in jail.?
?Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the?african colonies.
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
Let me add that by 1974, Portugal was spending 40% of its budget on its military. Taxes of hard working?Portuguese?citizens were wasted around the world. There is only one economic outcome when this happens. The tax payers get poorer and the economy of the country collapses. It is no wonder that a revolution took place in Portugal at the height of its military spending?extravaganza.
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last?name-Barros).
Actually, with your 6ft frame and black beard, you looked more like a revolutionary than a journalist then.
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
Tony, Samora's plane was not shot down. It crashed in S. Africa. Till this very day, Samora's widow, now Mandela's wife, insists that the Soviet built plane with its Soviet air force crew were following a false beacon hidden in the hills of S. Africa. That beacon was using the radio frequency of the Maputo airport. A commercial LAM flight from Lisbon to Maputo flying at the same time also reported confusing signals.?The?apartheid S. African govt of the time quickly announced that they found alcohol in the blood of the Soviet crew and hence the cause of the crash. ?

The crash opened the eyes of the security world to what was really going on in S. Africa. The?apartheid?regime did not live much longer.?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
You have not mentioned your relationship with your direct boss at the "Daily News" who went on the become the third President of Tanzania. I know Mkapa was at a 'welcome' function at the Dar Institute a few weeks after he was sworn in.

Returning to the topic of this post, soon after independence Nyerere announced that no one could feel free when another member of the family was in prison. He then organised support for all the liberation movements and Dar became the mecca of every revolutionary. Here?is a picture of Nyerere with Aquino Braganza at a garden party at the State House. These two men were, in my opinion, the most?responsible?for the liberation of the Portuguese colonies in Africa. They defeated PIDE and its brutality. ?I tried my best to spot you in the crowd but will not be surprised if you said that you were there.

http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/with-mwalimu-the-teacher-julius-nyerere/


Mervyn????????
Bernado Colaco
2013-01-07 06:21:20 UTC
Permalink
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2013-01-08 07:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear Bernado,
???? I am learning so much from you today!
???? "Forced decolonization"---that is such a lovely phrase! It implies that the colonies should not have been decolonized, would not have been decolonized, could not have been decolonized, unless some stupid fool idiot people had forced the colonizers to finally decolonize what they should not have colonized in the first place! So many accidents of history, to complicate our understanding of history!
???? In this interesting post, are you also saying that Frelimo fighters and other African freedom seekers, once they got their own freedom, moved to shanty towns around Lisbon, and thousands of them died in the civil war in Portugal? Was there a civil war in Portugal? Of course there was! The War of the Carnations!
???? We, the people of Bharat, eagerly await your next post.
???? Regards,
???? Victor

--- On Mon, 1/7/13, Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Goanet] PIDE- Portugal's secret Police
To: "goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 1:21 AM

What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Tony Barros
2013-01-04 18:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Folks !
?
As a student of journalism in north-western Tanzania, I was fortunate to have met
the American-trained Anthroplogy Professor and first President of the Mozambican
liberation movement- Frelimo when he addressed us during our tour of the
capital-Dar es Salaam . That was on? September 25, 1967 - the fifth anniversary
of the? start of the liberation struggle against the Portuguese dictatorship led by Salazar
and subsequently by Caetano.
?
In November 1968, I met him and his lovely American wife outside my home
in Iringa, southern Tanzania after returning from church on a bright sunny morning.
I had a long chat? and told them that I had just completed my reserve
army training - fortunately? also on the outskirts of Iringa and that I was going ?to
Dar es Salaam? to take up a job as ?my first fulltime job as a reporter with the
country's major English newspaper- owned by "Lonrho" ?the British mining giant
led by the controversial Chairman- "Tiny" Rowland.
?
Two months later, when opening a? package ?addressed to him at the home of the
American business executive-Betty King, he was killed by a package bomb
which destroyed his body to "pieces".
?
Initial and subsequent investigations carried out by the Tanzanian CID and Intepol
pointed "fingers" at PIDE. The irony of it all is that PIDE not only used a foriegn-
born agent in a goan - ostensibly called Almeida- but they were very successful
in using their greatest "mole" in? Frelimo's first Vice-President- Rev. Uriah Simango
who said the funeral mass in the capital.
?
Three years later, PIDE? claimed? another African victim in Cabral - the head of
the liberation movement in? Guinea Bissau.. (his brother took over the reins of
the party and the country).
?
So why did PIDE resort to thse is dastardly acts and on a wider spectrum- very
repressive measures -both at home and at the colonies.
?
The? succesfull Frelimo struggle ?- though long and protracted - paved the
way for? liberation movements from other Portuguese?colonies including
Sao Tome,Principe and Angola? which had three groups.
?
The birth of the African Liberation Commiittee- the liberation "wing ?of the
Organization of African Unity? in 1965- added? a "thorn" to Portugal's chances
of? keeping these colonies.
?
Portugal was particularly worried about losing??Angola- 14 times it size and and its
huge oil??wealth. As at January1975, there were about?half a million white Portuguese
nationals in Angola. (most of them went to? South Africa).
?
But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
?
This included getting sophisticated military hardware, the establishment of
training grounds and bases - both abroad and ?in some african countries- notably
Tanzanian and Zambia,??and otherr forms of aid -mainly from the Scandinavian
countries and India.
?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
?
So the Commiitee was forced to resort to Communist countriues like
Russia and China and Algeria- whose Frelimo Representative was
Oscar Monteiro- the highest ranking goan in Samora Machel's
first government.
?
Unlike the events surrounding the December 1961 events in Goa,
The African liberation struggle was a great litmus test for Portugal and they
soon realized they were fighting a well trained guerilla warfare. With no
Christmas? and other Christian celebrations, it was a 365-day war
"seeping" not only into their limited budget , but also on their military.
?
Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the african colonies.
?
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
?
The April 1974 overthrow of the right-wing dictatorship changed the
whole landcape and Spinola did not hesitate to play his cards well-
aided by? the very smart and flamboyant ?Foreign Minsiter, Dr. Mario
Soares whom I intervewed after his return from the Zambian capital-
Lusaka where the instruments for? Mozambique's independence were ratified.
?
From a goan perspective, the Spinola government finally recognized
Goa as not being part of Portugal; for both the Salazar and Caetano
governments continued to recognize Goa as an overseas province
even though they had neither De Jure nor De Facto control.
?
I have been told by many people that one of the master-minds and
architects of the April 1974 coup was the Mapusa-based goan
journalist- Aquino Braganza who intenselly ?studied sucessfull and
failed coups before requesting the army to make the "move"
?
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last name-Barros).
?
At our daily newspaper "Post-mortem" where we review all the stories,
my die-hard racist Managing Editor , Sammy Mdee told us all? that
Aquino is in town and I do not want anyone to meet him. (He hated
Indians- but respected me and my brother-in-law - a senior airline
executive who got?his?wife a job at the airline).
?
Since I was the country's only Goan journalist, I was determined to
meet and probably chat with him. I came to kniow that there was a
party later in the night for the delegation; so I "gate-crashed" misusing
my press card and managed to get in.
?
What surprised me? about? Aquino was that he was ??surrounded by
so many people all waiting to talk to him; whilst very few people
were speaking to Machel?. I had to be content with merely introducing
myself to him
?
Machel appointed him as his personal assistant and during his? three trips
to India, he would make it a point to go to Goa to visit Aquino's sick mother
in Mapusa.
?
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
?
His second wife- Graca (Grace) Simbine who was the Education Minsiter
in his first cabinet? later ?became the second wife of South Africa's first President -
Nelson Mandela? giving her the unique positon of being the? first- if not
the only woman in the world- to be married to Heads of States of two
different countries.
?
When Machel married Graca, We received a State House notification
from the Office of Tanzania's first President- Julius Nyerere - that we
should only refer to her my her maiden name.
?
It was apparently felt that Machel's? first wife and fellow freedom fighter-
Josina Machel-??should use his last name. Josina died at a Dar Es Salaam
hospital on April 7, 1972- the same day that Zanziibar's strongman and
Tanzania's First Vice-President- Abeid Amani Karume was
assassinated. (I covered her first anniversary death service).
?
My 1970 Managing Edictor- the controversial , unpopular, ?but highly
educated South African born Parsee- Miss ?Frene Ginwalla?- ?wrote a thesis
for her Masters at Oxford University, England on african liberation movements.
She later got a? doctorate? from Oxford in addition to two law degrees from
England's prestigious Inns of? Court.
?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
?
Unfortunately, the only goan who could give us a wealth of information
on the african national ?liberation scene ?was my good friend and fellow
Velim village mate - Eduardo Judas Barros - the late Professor of
Communications at Sao Paulo University in Brazil . Eduardo - a catholic
priest turned Marxist- was very well known to all the politicians who
manned the former Portuguuse colonies? in addition to being the
Vice-President of the South American Public Relations Association.
?
Cheers.
?
Tony Barros.
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-06 04:42:30 UTC
Permalink
?But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
Tony,
While you are only a few years older than me, I am always amazed at what those few earlier years allowed you to witness and remember. With regards to liberation movements in Dar, you will remember that FRELIMO headquarter's was in one of the building across from Co-Cabs. One year a bomb went off at the FRELIMO office. That five story building, and the two?adjacent?to it, had a Goan family living on almost every floor. Had that bomb been more powerful, there would have been a lot more deaths. This was state sponsored terrorism in its purest form.?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because?they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
For the info of the non-Africans here, Africans, inspired by India, began to form political parties in the 1950's in order to regain their independence. The leaders of these political parties were first jailed and then the parties were banned. Faced with no alternative, the locals took up the armed struggle. Nelson Mandela was charged as a terrorist and jailed. The capitalist world, increasingly paranoid about Soviet influence, backed any govt that would protect its source of raw materials. As an example, as late as 1986, Dick Cheney was insisting that the ANC was a terrorist organisation.?He was also voting in the US Congress then, that Mandela should remain in jail.?
?Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the?african colonies.
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
Let me add that by 1974, Portugal was spending 40% of its budget on its military. Taxes of hard working?Portuguese?citizens were wasted around the world. There is only one economic outcome when this happens. The tax payers get poorer and the economy of the country collapses. It is no wonder that a revolution took place in Portugal at the height of its military spending?extravaganza.
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last?name-Barros).
Actually, with your 6ft frame and black beard, you looked more like a revolutionary than a journalist then.
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
Tony, Samora's plane was not shot down. It crashed in S. Africa. Till this very day, Samora's widow, now Mandela's wife, insists that the Soviet built plane with its Soviet air force crew were following a false beacon hidden in the hills of S. Africa. That beacon was using the radio frequency of the Maputo airport. A commercial LAM flight from Lisbon to Maputo flying at the same time also reported confusing signals.?The?apartheid S. African govt of the time quickly announced that they found alcohol in the blood of the Soviet crew and hence the cause of the crash. ?

The crash opened the eyes of the security world to what was really going on in S. Africa. The?apartheid?regime did not live much longer.?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
You have not mentioned your relationship with your direct boss at the "Daily News" who went on the become the third President of Tanzania. I know Mkapa was at a 'welcome' function at the Dar Institute a few weeks after he was sworn in.

Returning to the topic of this post, soon after independence Nyerere announced that no one could feel free when another member of the family was in prison. He then organised support for all the liberation movements and Dar became the mecca of every revolutionary. Here?is a picture of Nyerere with Aquino Braganza at a garden party at the State House. These two men were, in my opinion, the most?responsible?for the liberation of the Portuguese colonies in Africa. They defeated PIDE and its brutality. ?I tried my best to spot you in the crowd but will not be surprised if you said that you were there.

http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/with-mwalimu-the-teacher-julius-nyerere/


Mervyn????????
Bernado Colaco
2013-01-07 06:21:20 UTC
Permalink
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2013-01-08 07:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear Bernado,
???? I am learning so much from you today!
???? "Forced decolonization"---that is such a lovely phrase! It implies that the colonies should not have been decolonized, would not have been decolonized, could not have been decolonized, unless some stupid fool idiot people had forced the colonizers to finally decolonize what they should not have colonized in the first place! So many accidents of history, to complicate our understanding of history!
???? In this interesting post, are you also saying that Frelimo fighters and other African freedom seekers, once they got their own freedom, moved to shanty towns around Lisbon, and thousands of them died in the civil war in Portugal? Was there a civil war in Portugal? Of course there was! The War of the Carnations!
???? We, the people of Bharat, eagerly await your next post.
???? Regards,
???? Victor

--- On Mon, 1/7/13, Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Goanet] PIDE- Portugal's secret Police
To: "goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 1:21 AM

What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Tony Barros
2013-01-04 18:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Folks !
?
As a student of journalism in north-western Tanzania, I was fortunate to have met
the American-trained Anthroplogy Professor and first President of the Mozambican
liberation movement- Frelimo when he addressed us during our tour of the
capital-Dar es Salaam . That was on? September 25, 1967 - the fifth anniversary
of the? start of the liberation struggle against the Portuguese dictatorship led by Salazar
and subsequently by Caetano.
?
In November 1968, I met him and his lovely American wife outside my home
in Iringa, southern Tanzania after returning from church on a bright sunny morning.
I had a long chat? and told them that I had just completed my reserve
army training - fortunately? also on the outskirts of Iringa and that I was going ?to
Dar es Salaam? to take up a job as ?my first fulltime job as a reporter with the
country's major English newspaper- owned by "Lonrho" ?the British mining giant
led by the controversial Chairman- "Tiny" Rowland.
?
Two months later, when opening a? package ?addressed to him at the home of the
American business executive-Betty King, he was killed by a package bomb
which destroyed his body to "pieces".
?
Initial and subsequent investigations carried out by the Tanzanian CID and Intepol
pointed "fingers" at PIDE. The irony of it all is that PIDE not only used a foriegn-
born agent in a goan - ostensibly called Almeida- but they were very successful
in using their greatest "mole" in? Frelimo's first Vice-President- Rev. Uriah Simango
who said the funeral mass in the capital.
?
Three years later, PIDE? claimed? another African victim in Cabral - the head of
the liberation movement in? Guinea Bissau.. (his brother took over the reins of
the party and the country).
?
So why did PIDE resort to thse is dastardly acts and on a wider spectrum- very
repressive measures -both at home and at the colonies.
?
The? succesfull Frelimo struggle ?- though long and protracted - paved the
way for? liberation movements from other Portuguese?colonies including
Sao Tome,Principe and Angola? which had three groups.
?
The birth of the African Liberation Commiittee- the liberation "wing ?of the
Organization of African Unity? in 1965- added? a "thorn" to Portugal's chances
of? keeping these colonies.
?
Portugal was particularly worried about losing??Angola- 14 times it size and and its
huge oil??wealth. As at January1975, there were about?half a million white Portuguese
nationals in Angola. (most of them went to? South Africa).
?
But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
?
This included getting sophisticated military hardware, the establishment of
training grounds and bases - both abroad and ?in some african countries- notably
Tanzanian and Zambia,??and otherr forms of aid -mainly from the Scandinavian
countries and India.
?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
?
So the Commiitee was forced to resort to Communist countriues like
Russia and China and Algeria- whose Frelimo Representative was
Oscar Monteiro- the highest ranking goan in Samora Machel's
first government.
?
Unlike the events surrounding the December 1961 events in Goa,
The African liberation struggle was a great litmus test for Portugal and they
soon realized they were fighting a well trained guerilla warfare. With no
Christmas? and other Christian celebrations, it was a 365-day war
"seeping" not only into their limited budget , but also on their military.
?
Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the african colonies.
?
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
?
The April 1974 overthrow of the right-wing dictatorship changed the
whole landcape and Spinola did not hesitate to play his cards well-
aided by? the very smart and flamboyant ?Foreign Minsiter, Dr. Mario
Soares whom I intervewed after his return from the Zambian capital-
Lusaka where the instruments for? Mozambique's independence were ratified.
?
From a goan perspective, the Spinola government finally recognized
Goa as not being part of Portugal; for both the Salazar and Caetano
governments continued to recognize Goa as an overseas province
even though they had neither De Jure nor De Facto control.
?
I have been told by many people that one of the master-minds and
architects of the April 1974 coup was the Mapusa-based goan
journalist- Aquino Braganza who intenselly ?studied sucessfull and
failed coups before requesting the army to make the "move"
?
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last name-Barros).
?
At our daily newspaper "Post-mortem" where we review all the stories,
my die-hard racist Managing Editor , Sammy Mdee told us all? that
Aquino is in town and I do not want anyone to meet him. (He hated
Indians- but respected me and my brother-in-law - a senior airline
executive who got?his?wife a job at the airline).
?
Since I was the country's only Goan journalist, I was determined to
meet and probably chat with him. I came to kniow that there was a
party later in the night for the delegation; so I "gate-crashed" misusing
my press card and managed to get in.
?
What surprised me? about? Aquino was that he was ??surrounded by
so many people all waiting to talk to him; whilst very few people
were speaking to Machel?. I had to be content with merely introducing
myself to him
?
Machel appointed him as his personal assistant and during his? three trips
to India, he would make it a point to go to Goa to visit Aquino's sick mother
in Mapusa.
?
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
?
His second wife- Graca (Grace) Simbine who was the Education Minsiter
in his first cabinet? later ?became the second wife of South Africa's first President -
Nelson Mandela? giving her the unique positon of being the? first- if not
the only woman in the world- to be married to Heads of States of two
different countries.
?
When Machel married Graca, We received a State House notification
from the Office of Tanzania's first President- Julius Nyerere - that we
should only refer to her my her maiden name.
?
It was apparently felt that Machel's? first wife and fellow freedom fighter-
Josina Machel-??should use his last name. Josina died at a Dar Es Salaam
hospital on April 7, 1972- the same day that Zanziibar's strongman and
Tanzania's First Vice-President- Abeid Amani Karume was
assassinated. (I covered her first anniversary death service).
?
My 1970 Managing Edictor- the controversial , unpopular, ?but highly
educated South African born Parsee- Miss ?Frene Ginwalla?- ?wrote a thesis
for her Masters at Oxford University, England on african liberation movements.
She later got a? doctorate? from Oxford in addition to two law degrees from
England's prestigious Inns of? Court.
?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
?
Unfortunately, the only goan who could give us a wealth of information
on the african national ?liberation scene ?was my good friend and fellow
Velim village mate - Eduardo Judas Barros - the late Professor of
Communications at Sao Paulo University in Brazil . Eduardo - a catholic
priest turned Marxist- was very well known to all the politicians who
manned the former Portuguuse colonies? in addition to being the
Vice-President of the South American Public Relations Association.
?
Cheers.
?
Tony Barros.
Mervyn Lobo
2013-01-06 04:42:30 UTC
Permalink
?But the Liberation Commitee? Headquarters which was based in Dar es Salaam?
set out to seek all forms? of aid- military and non-military for all liberation movements
in Africa - including Nambia (formerly South-West Africa) ,South Africa
and Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe)
Tony,
While you are only a few years older than me, I am always amazed at what those few earlier years allowed you to witness and remember. With regards to liberation movements in Dar, you will remember that FRELIMO headquarter's was in one of the building across from Co-Cabs. One year a bomb went off at the FRELIMO office. That five story building, and the two?adjacent?to it, had a Goan family living on almost every floor. Had that bomb been more powerful, there would have been a lot more deaths. This was state sponsored terrorism in its purest form.?
But as Mervyn said that? the governments in the ?western world- the USA,
Canada, England,France and Belgium? did not support the struggle out for
support for a western ally and Nato member, and may be because?they
felt that the freedom fighters were nothing but a bunch of armed gangsters.
For the info of the non-Africans here, Africans, inspired by India, began to form political parties in the 1950's in order to regain their independence. The leaders of these political parties were first jailed and then the parties were banned. Faced with no alternative, the locals took up the armed struggle. Nelson Mandela was charged as a terrorist and jailed. The capitalist world, increasingly paranoid about Soviet influence, backed any govt that would protect its source of raw materials. As an example, as late as 1986, Dick Cheney was insisting that the ANC was a terrorist organisation.?He was also voting in the US Congress then, that Mandela should remain in jail.?
?Unlike the 1960 wars in South-East Asian, the Amercain reserve army
call-up was two years- one year in the U.S and one year in Laos,Vietnam
or Cambodia. In the case of Portugal - it was? four years- 18 months
training? in Portugal and 30 months in the?african colonies.
If you came back alive- let alone dismembered - consider yourself very
lucky. This obviously brought a lot of sympathisers within Portugal
whose young loved ones were dying -fighting a losing battle. Hence
the persecutions, tortures and subsequently killing of the sympathisers
or from PIDE's perspective- betrayers.
Let me add that by 1974, Portugal was spending 40% of its budget on its military. Taxes of hard working?Portuguese?citizens were wasted around the world. There is only one economic outcome when this happens. The tax payers get poorer and the economy of the country collapses. It is no wonder that a revolution took place in Portugal at the height of its military spending?extravaganza.
And just before June 25,1975 - Mozambiue's ?indeopence day, Aquino
visited Dar es Salaam accompanying? Samora Machel - the
President -elect. (Machel who spoke fluent Swahili used to call me a
Mreno -Swahili for a Portuguese- because of my last?name-Barros).
Actually, with your 6ft frame and black beard, you looked more like a revolutionary than a journalist then.
Sad to say,? the aircraft Aquino was travelling with ?Machel on a? southern african
trip in 1986, was shot down as the? Russian pilot? "veered" into South African
airspace- then considered enemy territory. Everyone was killed.
Tony, Samora's plane was not shot down. It crashed in S. Africa. Till this very day, Samora's widow, now Mandela's wife, insists that the Soviet built plane with its Soviet air force crew were following a false beacon hidden in the hills of S. Africa. That beacon was using the radio frequency of the Maputo airport. A commercial LAM flight from Lisbon to Maputo flying at the same time also reported confusing signals.?The?apartheid S. African govt of the time quickly announced that they found alcohol in the blood of the Soviet crew and hence the cause of the crash. ?

The crash opened the eyes of the security world to what was really going on in S. Africa. The?apartheid?regime did not live much longer.?
She was South Africa's first Speaker after Mandela took power? and
holds a permanent position as Direcor Research in the ruling South
African party- the African National Congress. (She was deported
three times from Tanzania-twice in the same year).
You have not mentioned your relationship with your direct boss at the "Daily News" who went on the become the third President of Tanzania. I know Mkapa was at a 'welcome' function at the Dar Institute a few weeks after he was sworn in.

Returning to the topic of this post, soon after independence Nyerere announced that no one could feel free when another member of the family was in prison. He then organised support for all the liberation movements and Dar became the mecca of every revolutionary. Here?is a picture of Nyerere with Aquino Braganza at a garden party at the State House. These two men were, in my opinion, the most?responsible?for the liberation of the Portuguese colonies in Africa. They defeated PIDE and its brutality. ?I tried my best to spot you in the crowd but will not be surprised if you said that you were there.

http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/with-mwalimu-the-teacher-julius-nyerere/


Mervyn????????
Bernado Colaco
2013-01-07 06:21:20 UTC
Permalink
What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
Victor Rangel-Ribeiro
2013-01-08 07:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear Bernado,
???? I am learning so much from you today!
???? "Forced decolonization"---that is such a lovely phrase! It implies that the colonies should not have been decolonized, would not have been decolonized, could not have been decolonized, unless some stupid fool idiot people had forced the colonizers to finally decolonize what they should not have colonized in the first place! So many accidents of history, to complicate our understanding of history!
???? In this interesting post, are you also saying that Frelimo fighters and other African freedom seekers, once they got their own freedom, moved to shanty towns around Lisbon, and thousands of them died in the civil war in Portugal? Was there a civil war in Portugal? Of course there was! The War of the Carnations!
???? We, the people of Bharat, eagerly await your next post.
???? Regards,
???? Victor

--- On Mon, 1/7/13, Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Bernado Colaco <ole_xac at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Goanet] PIDE- Portugal's secret Police
To: "goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 1:21 AM

What Merv does not inform the reader of GN is the aftermath of forced decolonization. Many of the Frelimo, Renamo, MPLA, UNITA, Holden Roberto, PAIGC went to live in the shanty towns around Amadora - Lisbon. Countless died in the civil war. Who enjoyed at the end were the bloody Russians, as they are now doing in Goa.
?
BC
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