Discussion:
British citizens buying property in Goa
(too old to reply)
jane gillian rodrigues
2009-06-30 16:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

============================================
From: Ana Maria de souza-Goswami
Subject: British families buying property in Goa
I have been following the above postings on the Goanet. Let me elaborate
what I know in point form.
1. Any foreigner who wants to buy property in Goa, cannot do so, u nless he
buys in the company name.
2. A couple friends of mine, both with British passports. She of Indian
origin with an OCI card, he a white British with a PIO card have bought a
place in Goa in her name. All very legal.
3. A lot of foreigners have bought places but not signed a 'sale deed' ,
but a 'lease' which means they are not the owners of the property, mainly
flats. These flats were sold by Catholic builders.
4. Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports have now to produce an OCI
card if they want to sell their ancestral property in Goa. This has come
into effect sometime last year.
5. There are a lot of unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride.
6. Sometimes the titles are not clear especially in Form 1 to IV, and yet
sellers are selling properties to people. The buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers.
Most of my foreign friends have bought houses/flats legitimally.
Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami
jane gillian rodrigues
2009-06-30 16:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

============================================
From: Ana Maria de souza-Goswami
Subject: British families buying property in Goa
I have been following the above postings on the Goanet. Let me elaborate
what I know in point form.
1. Any foreigner who wants to buy property in Goa, cannot do so, u nless he
buys in the company name.
2. A couple friends of mine, both with British passports. She of Indian
origin with an OCI card, he a white British with a PIO card have bought a
place in Goa in her name. All very legal.
3. A lot of foreigners have bought places but not signed a 'sale deed' ,
but a 'lease' which means they are not the owners of the property, mainly
flats. These flats were sold by Catholic builders.
4. Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports have now to produce an OCI
card if they want to sell their ancestral property in Goa. This has come
into effect sometime last year.
5. There are a lot of unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride.
6. Sometimes the titles are not clear especially in Form 1 to IV, and yet
sellers are selling properties to people. The buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers.
Most of my foreign friends have bought houses/flats legitimally.
Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami
jane gillian rodrigues
2009-06-30 16:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

============================================
From: Ana Maria de souza-Goswami
Subject: British families buying property in Goa
I have been following the above postings on the Goanet. Let me elaborate
what I know in point form.
1. Any foreigner who wants to buy property in Goa, cannot do so, u nless he
buys in the company name.
2. A couple friends of mine, both with British passports. She of Indian
origin with an OCI card, he a white British with a PIO card have bought a
place in Goa in her name. All very legal.
3. A lot of foreigners have bought places but not signed a 'sale deed' ,
but a 'lease' which means they are not the owners of the property, mainly
flats. These flats were sold by Catholic builders.
4. Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports have now to produce an OCI
card if they want to sell their ancestral property in Goa. This has come
into effect sometime last year.
5. There are a lot of unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride.
6. Sometimes the titles are not clear especially in Form 1 to IV, and yet
sellers are selling properties to people. The buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers.
Most of my foreign friends have bought houses/flats legitimally.
Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami
jane gillian rodrigues
2009-06-30 16:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

============================================
From: Ana Maria de souza-Goswami
Subject: British families buying property in Goa
I have been following the above postings on the Goanet. Let me elaborate
what I know in point form.
1. Any foreigner who wants to buy property in Goa, cannot do so, u nless he
buys in the company name.
2. A couple friends of mine, both with British passports. She of Indian
origin with an OCI card, he a white British with a PIO card have bought a
place in Goa in her name. All very legal.
3. A lot of foreigners have bought places but not signed a 'sale deed' ,
but a 'lease' which means they are not the owners of the property, mainly
flats. These flats were sold by Catholic builders.
4. Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports have now to produce an OCI
card if they want to sell their ancestral property in Goa. This has come
into effect sometime last year.
5. There are a lot of unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride.
6. Sometimes the titles are not clear especially in Form 1 to IV, and yet
sellers are selling properties to people. The buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers.
Most of my foreign friends have bought houses/flats legitimally.
Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami
jane gillian rodrigues
2009-06-30 16:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

============================================
From: Ana Maria de souza-Goswami
Subject: British families buying property in Goa
I have been following the above postings on the Goanet. Let me elaborate
what I know in point form.
1. Any foreigner who wants to buy property in Goa, cannot do so, u nless he
buys in the company name.
2. A couple friends of mine, both with British passports. She of Indian
origin with an OCI card, he a white British with a PIO card have bought a
place in Goa in her name. All very legal.
3. A lot of foreigners have bought places but not signed a 'sale deed' ,
but a 'lease' which means they are not the owners of the property, mainly
flats. These flats were sold by Catholic builders.
4. Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports have now to produce an OCI
card if they want to sell their ancestral property in Goa. This has come
into effect sometime last year.
5. There are a lot of unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride.
6. Sometimes the titles are not clear especially in Form 1 to IV, and yet
sellers are selling properties to people. The buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers.
Most of my foreign friends have bought houses/flats legitimally.
Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami
jane gillian rodrigues
2009-06-30 16:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

============================================
From: Ana Maria de souza-Goswami
Subject: British families buying property in Goa
I have been following the above postings on the Goanet. Let me elaborate
what I know in point form.
1. Any foreigner who wants to buy property in Goa, cannot do so, u nless he
buys in the company name.
2. A couple friends of mine, both with British passports. She of Indian
origin with an OCI card, he a white British with a PIO card have bought a
place in Goa in her name. All very legal.
3. A lot of foreigners have bought places but not signed a 'sale deed' ,
but a 'lease' which means they are not the owners of the property, mainly
flats. These flats were sold by Catholic builders.
4. Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports have now to produce an OCI
card if they want to sell their ancestral property in Goa. This has come
into effect sometime last year.
5. There are a lot of unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride.
6. Sometimes the titles are not clear especially in Form 1 to IV, and yet
sellers are selling properties to people. The buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers.
Most of my foreign friends have bought houses/flats legitimally.
Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami
Elvino Rodriques
2009-07-01 11:32:05 UTC
Permalink
Bravo Jane Gillian,

Your mail is really some explanation to put the arguing heads to rest.

I have been following many of the posts for quite some time, especially the arguments that Ex Goans in UK used to put forward, saying, they have bought houses, property in UK and therefore it is justifiable and should be allowed to purchase lands in Goa by British nationals. UK Goans were equating their purchase of Property in UK on par with land purchases of British National in Goa. So also some British were justifying their purchase of lands in India/Goa by arguing that so many Indians/Goans have bought the lands/houses and any other property in their country - UK, therefore it is right for them to purchase lands in India/Goa. But what these people were not saying is that the British that purchased the lands in India/Goa are infact British Nationals (and Not Indian Nationals) and also the so called Indians/Goans that purchased property in UK are also British Nationals (and no longer Indian Nationals). Once upon a time they have been Goans/Indians but now they given up their nationality and are become UK Subjects, therefore their argument doesn't hold good and same. Ex Indians/Goans who purchased the property/land/houses in UK have done so by their right of being UK Nationals where as the British who bought the lands in Goa are not Indian Nationals yet, therefore they are considered as Foreigners. And those Ex Indian/Goans who bought any property in UK were able to purchase it because they are thecitizens of that country and therefore they are no longer Foreigners to UK but to India yes.

I hope I am clear.


Message: 4
Date: 30 Jun 2009 16:50:33 -0000
From: "jane gillian rodrigues" <janerodrigues at rediffmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Message-ID: <20090630165033.25452.qmail at f5mail-237-216.rediffmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

______________________________________________________________________
This e-mail message and any attachments to it are for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information. This e-mail message and any attachments are the property of Yusuf A. Alghanim & Sons w.l.l. or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates (?Alghanim Industries?). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution of this e-mail message or its attachments is prohibited. Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Alghanim Industries. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.
______________________________________________________________________
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2009-07-02 03:44:35 UTC
Permalink
I still repeat:

I was able to purchase two properties in the UK without ever having been a UK national - the first?flat in 1981 as an Indian citizen, the second, a house in 1986, as a Portuguese citizen.?Then when I came to Australia in 1993, as a Portuguese citizen, I was able to buy a house in which I am still living.? In none of the cases was I requested for nationality papers. All one needed was the wherewithal to pay for the property (mortgage/ready cash).

Not only that, I was able to vote in the UK elections, local and national, initially as a commonwealth citizen, then as a resident, not as a UK citizen.

Cheers,

Gabriel.

PS Malaysian, Singaporean and HongKong Chinese?parents have bought houses and flats for their children in Melbourne, where they send their children to be educated.? The parents don't live here, and once the children have completed their education and are ready to move into the world of their professions, they sell the properties at a profit.


----- Original Message ----
From: Elvino Rodriques <ElvinoR at Alghanim.com>
To: "goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Cc: jane gillian rodrigues <janerodrigues at rediffmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 9:32:05 PM
Subject: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa

Bravo Jane Gillian,

Your mail is really some explanation to put the arguing heads to rest.

I have been following many of the posts for quite some time, especially the arguments that Ex Goans in UK used to put forward, saying, they have bought houses, property in UK and therefore it is justifiable and should be allowed to purchase lands in Goa by British nationals.? UK Goans were equating their purchase of Property in UK on par with land purchases of British National in Goa.? So also some British were justifying their purchase of lands in India/Goa by arguing that so many Indians/Goans have bought the lands/houses and any other property in their country - UK, therefore it is right for them to purchase lands in India/Goa.? But what these people were not saying is that the British that purchased the lands in India/Goa are infact British Nationals (and Not Indian Nationals) and also the so called Indians/Goans that purchased property in UK are also British Nationals (and no longer Indian Nationals).? Once upon a time they have been
Goans/Indians but now they given up their nationality and are become UK Subjects, therefore their argument doesn't hold good and same.? Ex Indians/Goans who purchased the property/land/houses in UK have done so by their right of being UK Nationals where as the British who bought the lands in Goa are not Indian Nationals yet, therefore they are considered as Foreigners.? And those Ex Indian/Goans who bought any property in UK were able to purchase it because they are thecitizens of that country and therefore they are no longer Foreigners to UK but to India yes.

I hope I am clear.


Message: 4
Date: 30 Jun 2009 16:50:33 -0000
From: "jane gillian rodrigues" <janerodrigues at rediffmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Message-ID: <20090630165033.25452.qmail at f5mail-237-216.rediffmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease"? prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports".? I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

______________________________________________________________________
This e-mail message and any attachments to it are for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information.? This e-mail message and any attachments are the property of Yusuf A. Alghanim & Sons w.l.l. or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates (?Alghanim Industries?).? Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution of this e-mail message or its attachments is prohibited.? Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Alghanim Industries.? If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.
______________________________________________________________________



____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2009-07-02 03:44:35 UTC
Permalink
I still repeat:

I was able to purchase two properties in the UK without ever having been a UK national - the first?flat in 1981 as an Indian citizen, the second, a house in 1986, as a Portuguese citizen.?Then when I came to Australia in 1993, as a Portuguese citizen, I was able to buy a house in which I am still living.? In none of the cases was I requested for nationality papers. All one needed was the wherewithal to pay for the property (mortgage/ready cash).

Not only that, I was able to vote in the UK elections, local and national, initially as a commonwealth citizen, then as a resident, not as a UK citizen.

Cheers,

Gabriel.

PS Malaysian, Singaporean and HongKong Chinese?parents have bought houses and flats for their children in Melbourne, where they send their children to be educated.? The parents don't live here, and once the children have completed their education and are ready to move into the world of their professions, they sell the properties at a profit.


----- Original Message ----
From: Elvino Rodriques <ElvinoR at Alghanim.com>
To: "goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Cc: jane gillian rodrigues <janerodrigues at rediffmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 9:32:05 PM
Subject: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa

Bravo Jane Gillian,

Your mail is really some explanation to put the arguing heads to rest.

I have been following many of the posts for quite some time, especially the arguments that Ex Goans in UK used to put forward, saying, they have bought houses, property in UK and therefore it is justifiable and should be allowed to purchase lands in Goa by British nationals.? UK Goans were equating their purchase of Property in UK on par with land purchases of British National in Goa.? So also some British were justifying their purchase of lands in India/Goa by arguing that so many Indians/Goans have bought the lands/houses and any other property in their country - UK, therefore it is right for them to purchase lands in India/Goa.? But what these people were not saying is that the British that purchased the lands in India/Goa are infact British Nationals (and Not Indian Nationals) and also the so called Indians/Goans that purchased property in UK are also British Nationals (and no longer Indian Nationals).? Once upon a time they have been
Goans/Indians but now they given up their nationality and are become UK Subjects, therefore their argument doesn't hold good and same.? Ex Indians/Goans who purchased the property/land/houses in UK have done so by their right of being UK Nationals where as the British who bought the lands in Goa are not Indian Nationals yet, therefore they are considered as Foreigners.? And those Ex Indian/Goans who bought any property in UK were able to purchase it because they are thecitizens of that country and therefore they are no longer Foreigners to UK but to India yes.

I hope I am clear.


Message: 4
Date: 30 Jun 2009 16:50:33 -0000
From: "jane gillian rodrigues" <janerodrigues at rediffmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Message-ID: <20090630165033.25452.qmail at f5mail-237-216.rediffmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease"? prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports".? I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

______________________________________________________________________
This e-mail message and any attachments to it are for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information.? This e-mail message and any attachments are the property of Yusuf A. Alghanim & Sons w.l.l. or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates (?Alghanim Industries?).? Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution of this e-mail message or its attachments is prohibited.? Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Alghanim Industries.? If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.
______________________________________________________________________



____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Cajetan Alvares
2009-07-01 15:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
I hope I am clear. said Elvino Rodriques.
Reply: I suppose you missed my post, here it is again:
Hi Romeo Ferns,
Easily said than done.
When the East Africans/ Kenyans in particular applied to come to India.
India refused them entry saying that you have a British Passport - Go to
Britain.
Alternatively, give up your BP.
Feeling sorry for the British now is not fair, just because they are white.
--------
Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world,
said jane gillian rodrigues
Hi,
Those days they had the guns, not brains.
Those who came those days were the same kind who come now, 'all brawn no
brains'.
There was a program on UK TV.
Only Builders, Hairdressers, Caterers, Hippies who happened to get money
from their parents etc. bought land in Goa.

Those who actually rules India were and are in UK, even now - calling
Indians with brains but no brawn to work on their computers in UK.

Now, are the Britishers still ruling India?
Of course they are.
India got everything, Nehru had banned import of foreign goods, did India
starve?
Who controls and puts check on Indian Rupee, to see that it does not go
above a certain level?

In India it is the Indian Govt that is all brawn and no brains (all goonds
and bandits elected because they spent lakhs during elections).
I have heard that some of our MLA's are 'metric fail'.
Caj.
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-01 23:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Goa-Properties - UK Prime Minister's Office response

1 July 2009: UK Prime Minister's Office. Excerpts:

The Government has acted on the concerns of British nationals about the
purchase of property in Goa.
We have made clear to the state authorities in Goa that we would be
extremely concerned if there were to be any question of property acquired
legally by British nationals being expropriated through the retrospective
application of any new legislation.

For full text, 343 words, see http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page19848

The above is the response to an earlier petition. To sign the current
petition go to http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/goahomes/

Also, UK Parliament Proceedings at
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldhansrd/text/80929w0022.h
tm

India: Property Legislation:

Viscount Waverley asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are making representations to the Government of Goa
regarding the reinterpretation of existing property legislation and
amendment to the Indian Registration Act 1908 that is resulting in seizure
of United Kingdom citizens' properties. [HL5116]

Lord Bach: Our High Commission in New Delhi has raised the issue with both
the authorities in Goa and at a national level. In particular, we have made
it clear that there should be no confiscation of property acquired legally
by British citizens.

Eddie Fernandes
unknown
2009-07-06 22:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a Robert Mugabe? For
one, he lacks the oratorial skills that Mugabe once had! FN
Post by Eddie Fernandes
The Government has acted on the concerns of British nationals about the
purchase of property in Goa.
We have made clear to the state authorities in Goa that we would be
extremely concerned if there were to be any question of property acquired
legally by British nationals being expropriated through the retrospective
application of any new legislation.
--
FN * http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/fn
M +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490
http://fredericknoronha.multiply.com/ http://goa1556.goa-india.org
"I used to be Snow White -- but I drifted." - Mae West
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-07 08:33:03 UTC
Permalink
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Post by unknown
Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a
Robert Mugabe? For one, he lacks the oratorial skills
that Mugabe once had! FN
Dear Frederick

As you say, it is you who is imagining Digambar being painted at Mugabe. I
wonder why. Is it a case of no smoke without a fire?

Best wishes
Eddie Fernandes
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-07 10:20:05 UTC
Permalink
7th July 2009: IANS. The Goa government is now tinkering with the Indian
Penal Code to save a cabinet minister charged with threatening to kill a
lawyer. Goa's Advocate General, Subodh Kantak, now seeks that charges
against hundreds of people booked under section 506 of the IPC since May
2004, including Health Minister Vishwajeet Rane, be dropped on technical
grounds. 399 words. http://www.bombaynews.net/story/516078


-----Original Message-----
From: goanet-bounces at lists.goanet.org
[mailto:goanet-bounces at lists.goanet.org] On Behalf Of Frederick [FN] Noronha
* ???????? ????????
Sent: 06 July 2009 23:23
To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!
Subject: Re: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa

Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a Robert Mugabe? For
one, he lacks the oratorial skills that Mugabe once had! FN
unknown
2009-07-07 14:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Eddie, Please don't give the Brit tabloid media a hint of this line of
thinking. They'll do a Fiona on us all! FN
PS: Which might not be bad if the prices of homes went down to realistic
levels, but I suspect it might be used to buy off Goa on the cheap for
something like UKP 500,000 :-)

2009/7/7 Eddie Fernandes <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Post by Eddie Fernandes
7th July 2009: IANS. The Goa government is now tinkering with the Indian
Penal Code to save a cabinet minister charged with threatening to kill a
lawyer. Goa's Advocate General, Subodh Kantak, now seeks that charges
against hundreds of people booked under section 506 of the IPC since May
2004, including Health Minister Vishwajeet Rane, be dropped on technical
grounds. 399 words. http://www.bombaynews.net/story/516078
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-07 14:13:14 UTC
Permalink
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Post by unknown
Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a Robert Mugabe?
Dear Frederick,

Alas, I cannot claim credit for your line of thinking :-)

Best wishes

Eddie



-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Eddie, Please don't give the Brit tabloid media a hint of this line of
thinking. They'll do a Fiona on us all! FN
PS: Which might not be bad if the prices of homes went down to realistic
levels, but I suspect it might be used to buy off Goa on the cheap for
something like UKP 500,000 :-)

2009/7/7 Eddie Fernandes <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Post by unknown
7th July 2009: IANS. The Goa government is now tinkering with the Indian
Penal Code to save a cabinet minister charged with threatening to kill a
lawyer. Goa's Advocate General, Subodh Kantak, now seeks that charges
against hundreds of people booked under section 506 of the IPC since May
2004, including Health Minister Vishwajeet Rane, be dropped on technical
grounds. 399 words. http://www.bombaynews.net/story/516078
Alfred de Tavares
2009-07-07 16:02:23 UTC
Permalink
The Goa Govt: Digamber & his leech, sucking the Goan exchequer, Subadh Contok,

can learn even much more from Robert Mugabe: How he sumarilly expropriated the

British farms & other properties & most unceremoniously kicked them out of his

Zimbabwe, their cherished Rodhesia....some of the turned paupers"



A crore or two from the much abused Goan treasury will get them to visit Z. on a

study/fact-finding package to there...



The crores thus spent would be cherished dream fulfilled if the duo were to perish on

the jaunt...



Alfred de Tavares...



BTW, I am being informed that our inestimable FN is being considered for the Royal

Lists: Attaboy Sir Rico....
From: eddie at fernandes.u-net.com
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:13:14 +0100
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Zimbabwe: Here We Come!
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Post by unknown
Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a Robert Mugabe?
Dear Frederick,
Alas, I cannot claim credit for your line of thinking :-)
Best wishes
Eddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Eddie, Please don't give the Brit tabloid media a hint of this line of
thinking. They'll do a Fiona on us all! FN
PS: Which might not be bad if the prices of homes went down to realistic
levels, but I suspect it might be used to buy off Goa on the cheap for
something like UKP 500,000 :-)
2009/7/7 Eddie Fernandes <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Post by unknown
7th July 2009: IANS. The Goa government is now tinkering with the Indian
Penal Code to save a cabinet minister charged with threatening to kill a
lawyer. Goa's Advocate General, Subodh Kantak, now seeks that charges
against hundreds of people booked under section 506 of the IPC since May
2004, including Health Minister Vishwajeet Rane, be dropped on technical
grounds. 399 words. http://www.bombaynews.net/story/516078
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out!
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009
unknown
2009-07-07 17:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Sir Alfred, So it's a must-choose between corruption OR colonialism?
Is there no other way out of looking at this? Is it necessarily a
toss-up between the Right Hon. Edward Fernandes or Sir Digu? Rev.
George Pinto is making some valid points out there in Sunny US, me
thinks!

Is it anyone's case that the White-dominated land-ownership pattern of
Colonial Rhodesia/Zimbabwe was untenable? FN
Post by Alfred de Tavares
The Goa Govt: Digamber & his leech, sucking the
Goan exchequer, Subadh Contok,
can learn even much more from Robert Mugabe: How
he sumarilly expropriated the British farms &
other properties & most unceremoniously kicked
them out of his
Zimbabwe, their cherished Rodhesia....some of
the turned paupers"
A crore or two from the much abused Goan treasury will get them to visit Z. on a
study/fact-finding package to there...
The crores thus spent would be cherished dream fulfilled if the duo were to perish on
the jaunt...
BTW, I am being informed that our inestimable FN is being considered for the Royal
Lists: Attaboy Sir Rico....
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
2009-07-07 17:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Sir Alfred, So it's a must-choose between corruption OR colonialism?
Is there no other way out of looking at this? Is it necessarily a
toss-up between the Right Hon. Edward Fernandes or Sir Digu? Rev.
George Pinto is making some valid points out there in Sunny US, me
thinks!

Is it anyone's case that the White-dominated land-ownership pattern of
Colonial Rhodesia/Zimbabwe was untenable? FN
Post by Alfred de Tavares
The Goa Govt: Digamber & his leech, sucking the
Goan exchequer, Subadh Contok,
can learn even much more from Robert Mugabe: How
he sumarilly expropriated the British farms &
other properties & most unceremoniously kicked
them out of his
Zimbabwe, their cherished Rodhesia....some of
the turned paupers"
A crore or two from the much abused Goan treasury will get them to visit Z. on a
study/fact-finding package to there...
The crores thus spent would be cherished dream fulfilled if the duo were to perish on
the jaunt...
BTW, I am being informed that our inestimable FN is being considered for the Royal
Lists: Attaboy Sir Rico....
Alfred de Tavares
2009-07-07 16:02:23 UTC
Permalink
The Goa Govt: Digamber & his leech, sucking the Goan exchequer, Subadh Contok,

can learn even much more from Robert Mugabe: How he sumarilly expropriated the

British farms & other properties & most unceremoniously kicked them out of his

Zimbabwe, their cherished Rodhesia....some of the turned paupers"



A crore or two from the much abused Goan treasury will get them to visit Z. on a

study/fact-finding package to there...



The crores thus spent would be cherished dream fulfilled if the duo were to perish on

the jaunt...



Alfred de Tavares...



BTW, I am being informed that our inestimable FN is being considered for the Royal

Lists: Attaboy Sir Rico....
From: eddie at fernandes.u-net.com
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:13:14 +0100
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Zimbabwe: Here We Come!
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Post by unknown
Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a Robert Mugabe?
Dear Frederick,
Alas, I cannot claim credit for your line of thinking :-)
Best wishes
Eddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Eddie, Please don't give the Brit tabloid media a hint of this line of
thinking. They'll do a Fiona on us all! FN
PS: Which might not be bad if the prices of homes went down to realistic
levels, but I suspect it might be used to buy off Goa on the cheap for
something like UKP 500,000 :-)
2009/7/7 Eddie Fernandes <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Post by unknown
7th July 2009: IANS. The Goa government is now tinkering with the Indian
Penal Code to save a cabinet minister charged with threatening to kill a
lawyer. Goa's Advocate General, Subodh Kantak, now seeks that charges
against hundreds of people booked under section 506 of the IPC since May
2004, including Health Minister Vishwajeet Rane, be dropped on technical
grounds. 399 words. http://www.bombaynews.net/story/516078
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out!
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-07 14:13:14 UTC
Permalink
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Post by unknown
Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a Robert Mugabe?
Dear Frederick,

Alas, I cannot claim credit for your line of thinking :-)

Best wishes

Eddie



-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Eddie, Please don't give the Brit tabloid media a hint of this line of
thinking. They'll do a Fiona on us all! FN
PS: Which might not be bad if the prices of homes went down to realistic
levels, but I suspect it might be used to buy off Goa on the cheap for
something like UKP 500,000 :-)

2009/7/7 Eddie Fernandes <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Post by unknown
7th July 2009: IANS. The Goa government is now tinkering with the Indian
Penal Code to save a cabinet minister charged with threatening to kill a
lawyer. Goa's Advocate General, Subodh Kantak, now seeks that charges
against hundreds of people booked under section 506 of the IPC since May
2004, including Health Minister Vishwajeet Rane, be dropped on technical
grounds. 399 words. http://www.bombaynews.net/story/516078
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
2009-07-07 14:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Eddie, Please don't give the Brit tabloid media a hint of this line of
thinking. They'll do a Fiona on us all! FN
PS: Which might not be bad if the prices of homes went down to realistic
levels, but I suspect it might be used to buy off Goa on the cheap for
something like UKP 500,000 :-)

2009/7/7 Eddie Fernandes <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Post by Eddie Fernandes
7th July 2009: IANS. The Goa government is now tinkering with the Indian
Penal Code to save a cabinet minister charged with threatening to kill a
lawyer. Goa's Advocate General, Subodh Kantak, now seeks that charges
against hundreds of people booked under section 506 of the IPC since May
2004, including Health Minister Vishwajeet Rane, be dropped on technical
grounds. 399 words. http://www.bombaynews.net/story/516078
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-07 08:33:03 UTC
Permalink
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha
Post by unknown
Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a
Robert Mugabe? For one, he lacks the oratorial skills
that Mugabe once had! FN
Dear Frederick

As you say, it is you who is imagining Digambar being painted at Mugabe. I
wonder why. Is it a case of no smoke without a fire?

Best wishes
Eddie Fernandes
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-07 10:20:05 UTC
Permalink
7th July 2009: IANS. The Goa government is now tinkering with the Indian
Penal Code to save a cabinet minister charged with threatening to kill a
lawyer. Goa's Advocate General, Subodh Kantak, now seeks that charges
against hundreds of people booked under section 506 of the IPC since May
2004, including Health Minister Vishwajeet Rane, be dropped on technical
grounds. 399 words. http://www.bombaynews.net/story/516078


-----Original Message-----
From: goanet-bounces at lists.goanet.org
[mailto:goanet-bounces at lists.goanet.org] On Behalf Of Frederick [FN] Noronha
* ???????? ????????
Sent: 06 July 2009 23:23
To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!
Subject: Re: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa

Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a Robert Mugabe? For
one, he lacks the oratorial skills that Mugabe once had! FN
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
2009-07-06 22:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Can you imagine a Digambar Kamat being painted as a Robert Mugabe? For
one, he lacks the oratorial skills that Mugabe once had! FN
Post by Eddie Fernandes
The Government has acted on the concerns of British nationals about the
purchase of property in Goa.
We have made clear to the state authorities in Goa that we would be
extremely concerned if there were to be any question of property acquired
legally by British nationals being expropriated through the retrospective
application of any new legislation.
--
FN * http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/fn
M +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490
http://fredericknoronha.multiply.com/ http://goa1556.goa-india.org
"I used to be Snow White -- but I drifted." - Mae West
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-01 19:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cajetan Alvares
I have heard that some of our MLA's are 'metric fail'.
Response: Caj: Are you "Imperial fail" :-)

Eddie

===========================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Cajetan Alvares
Hi,
I hope I am clear. said Elvino Rodriques.
Reply: I suppose you missed my post, here it is again:
Hi Romeo Ferns,
Easily said than done.
When the East Africans/ Kenyans in particular applied to come to India.
India refused them entry saying that you have a British Passport - Go to
Britain.
Alternatively, give up your BP.
Feeling sorry for the British now is not fair, just because they are white.
--------
Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world,
said jane gillian rodrigues
Hi,
Those days they had the guns, not brains.
Those who came those days were the same kind who come now, 'all brawn no
brains'.
There was a program on UK TV.
Only Builders, Hairdressers, Caterers, Hippies who happened to get money
from their parents etc. bought land in Goa.

Those who actually rules India were and are in UK, even now - calling
Indians with brains but no brawn to work on their computers in UK.

Now, are the Britishers still ruling India?
Of course they are.
India got everything, Nehru had banned import of foreign goods, did India
starve?
Who controls and puts check on Indian Rupee, to see that it does not go
above a certain level?

In India it is the Indian Govt that is all brawn and no brains (all goonds
and bandits elected because they spent lakhs during elections).
I have heard that some of our MLA's are 'metric fail'.
Caj.
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-01 23:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Goa-Properties - UK Prime Minister's Office response

1 July 2009: UK Prime Minister's Office. Excerpts:

The Government has acted on the concerns of British nationals about the
purchase of property in Goa.
We have made clear to the state authorities in Goa that we would be
extremely concerned if there were to be any question of property acquired
legally by British nationals being expropriated through the retrospective
application of any new legislation.

For full text, 343 words, see http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page19848

The above is the response to an earlier petition. To sign the current
petition go to http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/goahomes/

Also, UK Parliament Proceedings at
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldhansrd/text/80929w0022.h
tm

India: Property Legislation:

Viscount Waverley asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are making representations to the Government of Goa
regarding the reinterpretation of existing property legislation and
amendment to the Indian Registration Act 1908 that is resulting in seizure
of United Kingdom citizens' properties. [HL5116]

Lord Bach: Our High Commission in New Delhi has raised the issue with both
the authorities in Goa and at a national level. In particular, we have made
it clear that there should be no confiscation of property acquired legally
by British citizens.

Eddie Fernandes
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-01 19:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cajetan Alvares
I have heard that some of our MLA's are 'metric fail'.
Response: Caj: Are you "Imperial fail" :-)

Eddie

===========================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Cajetan Alvares
Hi,
I hope I am clear. said Elvino Rodriques.
Reply: I suppose you missed my post, here it is again:
Hi Romeo Ferns,
Easily said than done.
When the East Africans/ Kenyans in particular applied to come to India.
India refused them entry saying that you have a British Passport - Go to
Britain.
Alternatively, give up your BP.
Feeling sorry for the British now is not fair, just because they are white.
--------
Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world,
said jane gillian rodrigues
Hi,
Those days they had the guns, not brains.
Those who came those days were the same kind who come now, 'all brawn no
brains'.
There was a program on UK TV.
Only Builders, Hairdressers, Caterers, Hippies who happened to get money
from their parents etc. bought land in Goa.

Those who actually rules India were and are in UK, even now - calling
Indians with brains but no brawn to work on their computers in UK.

Now, are the Britishers still ruling India?
Of course they are.
India got everything, Nehru had banned import of foreign goods, did India
starve?
Who controls and puts check on Indian Rupee, to see that it does not go
above a certain level?

In India it is the Indian Govt that is all brawn and no brains (all goonds
and bandits elected because they spent lakhs during elections).
I have heard that some of our MLA's are 'metric fail'.
Caj.
Mario Goveia
2009-07-02 15:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:44:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gabriel de Figueiredo <gdefigueiredo at yahoo.com.au>

I was able to purchase two properties in the UK without ever having been a UK national

Mario observes:

Doesn't this depend on the laws of each country?

India has traditionally been ultra paranoid of foreign investment for reasons that escape me, because it prevents badly needed investment money flowing into the country. We are seeing this narrow minded attitude in some of the comments on Goanet.

When foreigners invest in physical assets the country not only benefits from their money but also retains ultimate sovereignty over the assets.

The more Brits and other foreigners who invest in India the better for India. What are they going to do, run away with the property? Don't they have a vested interest in enhancing it, for their own benefit?

I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic and military superpower by gladly using other people's brains and other people's money and every resident, whether citizen or not, is provided with all the considerable constitutional rights, other than the right to vote.
unknown
2009-07-02 17:01:30 UTC
Permalink
2009/7/2 Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net>
Post by Mario Goveia
India has traditionally been ultra paranoid of foreign investment for
reasons that escape me, because it prevents badly needed investment money
flowing into the country. We are seeing this narrow minded attitude in some
of the comments on Goanet.
True. Our best foreign direct investors, at one stage, were known as the
East India Company.
Post by Mario Goveia
I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic and military
superpower by gladly using other people's brains and other people's money
and every resident, whether citizen or not, is provided with all the
considerable constitutional rights, other than the right to vote.
Where do the Amerindians fit into the reality of this economic and military
superpower? Whose brains and money did they use, and to what end? FN
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
2009-07-02 17:01:30 UTC
Permalink
2009/7/2 Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net>
Post by Mario Goveia
India has traditionally been ultra paranoid of foreign investment for
reasons that escape me, because it prevents badly needed investment money
flowing into the country. We are seeing this narrow minded attitude in some
of the comments on Goanet.
True. Our best foreign direct investors, at one stage, were known as the
East India Company.
Post by Mario Goveia
I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic and military
superpower by gladly using other people's brains and other people's money
and every resident, whether citizen or not, is provided with all the
considerable constitutional rights, other than the right to vote.
Where do the Amerindians fit into the reality of this economic and military
superpower? Whose brains and money did they use, and to what end? FN
Bosco D'Mello
2009-07-02 21:32:17 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
From: Mario Goveia
Post by Mario Goveia
I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic
and military superpower by gladly using other people's brains
and other people's money and every resident, whether citizen
or not, is provided with all the considerable constitutional
rights, other than the right to vote.
RESPONSE: (A)merican (I)nternational (G)reed comes to mind! Alongwith (G)overnment
(M)otors. Oh....Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Morgan Stanley, CitiCorp, Goldman
Sachs, BankAm........its an extensive list [1]....Mario is right.....other people's
(read present and future tax-payers') money was used to prop-up the legends of
capitalism.....vis-a-vis economic superpower.

Dont be laughing at Mervyn. The Gold 'conspiracy' is alive and well!!

Nevertheless, I do not see the connection with the sentiments of this thread -
British citizens likely to lose their rights to properties purchased by them in Goa.

- B

Ref:
[1] - http://bailout.uslaw.com/?page_id=353
Mario Goveia
2009-07-03 14:40:01 UTC
Permalink
From: Mario Goveia
Post by Mario Goveia
I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic
and military superpower by gladly using other people's brains
and other people's money and every resident, whether citizen
or not, is provided with all the considerable constitutional
rights, other than the right to vote.
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:32:17 -0400
From: "Bosco D'Mello" <bospam at canada.com>

(A)merican (I)nternational (G)reed comes to mind! Alongwith (G)overnment
(M)otors. Oh....Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Morgan Stanley, CitiCorp, Goldman Sachs, BankAm........its an extensive list [1]....Mario is right.....other people's (read present and future tax-payers') money was used to prop-up the legends of capitalism.....vis-a-vis economic superpower.

Mario responds:

Actually, the list is very small when compared with the total American economy, and the government bailouts violated the basic principles of capitalism and should not have been implemented.

However, as anyone who follows current events would know, none of the selective aberrations mentioned by Bosco have anything to do with the overall long term reality that I was referring to. In addition, it is America's proximity that allows neighbors like Canada and Mexico to benefit from the trade that takes place and spend a pittance on their own defense.
Mario Goveia
2009-07-03 14:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
India has traditionally been ultra paranoid of foreign investment for
reasons that escape me, because it prevents badly needed investment money
flowing into the country. We are seeing this narrow minded attitude in > some of the comments on Goanet.
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:31:30 +0530
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha * ???????? ????????

True. Our best foreign direct investors, at one stage, were known as the
East India Company.

Mario responds:

If the East India Company had just come to India to invest and trade it would have been a good thing. However, when they became part of an oppressive colonial dictatorship it became a bad thing. I hope Fred can see the difference.
Post by Mario Goveia
I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic and
military superpower by gladly using other people's brains and other
people's money and every resident, whether citizen or not, is provided
with all the considerable constitutional rights, other than the right to
vote.
Fred wrote:

Where do the Amerindians fit into the reality of this economic and military
superpower? Whose brains and money did they use, and to what end?

Mario responds:

Back in the old days, they were defeated and oppressed by the growing tide of European settlers who were spreading out across north America. They resisted when they could, but were generally unable to prevail or compete with the Europeans.

Today, they have the same opportunities as every other American. In some cases they live in poverty and are heavily subsidized by the government. In other cases they live in semi-autonomous areas, some of which have oil fields and tourist resorts and casinos that make a lot of money for those particular tribes.
SANTANO VAZ
2009-07-05 13:47:59 UTC
Permalink
Reply to: British citizens buying property in Goa (Gabriel de Figueiredo)

We goans don?t have problem when our fellow goan brothers and sisters buy properties or settled in other countries, as their government encourages migration and hence their government are obliged to make law as per these regulations and they will do that as they have good infrastructure and vast land and very less population.

Mr. Gabriel might not been in Goa recently or might not aware of Goa?s Demography, its true that lots of Goans by the influence of Portuguese and Africa has managed to find a new place to settled and are able to buy properties but some has to sell their ancestral properties in Goa for quick and more money to well known Goan industrialist and non- goans to obtain a healthy bond deposits enough to settle in western world.

Selling Goan properties to such people was first initiated by these people who had a craze of going out of India. At this time goa was just liberated and Goan AMM ADMIN at that time was not able to afford to buy these properties and now when our generation wants to buy properties to our next generation after all hard work of Gulf and ships still we cannot effort the rates which are fixed by Land mafias.

Let me come to the point: Sancoale is the village in limelight ever since the ZACL or Birla came in Goa, a mega project called M-TECH is passed by Village Sarpanch without consulting the village member or even knowledge of some elected Panchayat members, thanks to the elected ministers and MLA?s. When the village come to know about this project it was opposed and has put on hold but the people who got or may get their benefits on this projects are still in favor and wants to get the clearance by force.

Being a member of this village I was not aware of any such project until one of my colleague a UK national who never visited Goa or even India in his life confirms me that he has bought an apartment in this so called M-TECH Beach village and this was happened due to good property sellers or broker are putting up their stalls in UK and other western countries to sell Goa in peaces.

Why Brits coming to Goa: this is what my UK colleagues told me. The cost of property and apartments is high in UK, in past few years very few people could afford and in next few years specially this generation who are in their twenties who still studies or worked as salaried they may not able to buy their own properties even if they work for 40 years from now.

My friend has booked this apartment with this broker?s office in UK just for ? 37,000 and the same might have cost him ? 320,000 in UK and this was confirmed by my other colleague who has bought a property in Spain with similar kind of project and these projects are introduced by their governments, they started their first project in Thailand, Cyprus, Spain and now they are in Goa not sure if they have any places in India, this is to help their average citizen to leave affordably, there can be other factors also involved which Goa will be in worlds map as next destination after Pathaya or phuket.

The local community of Goa is opposing all these projects which are now in heart of every single village, but Govt. still wants to bring such projects and wants to support this particular project M-TECH, no doubt some ministers and their family might got their UK citizenship or just waiting to get a business venture with counterpart.

Effects to AMM ADMIN: no doubt all these mega projects will have all facilities and so also it will required lot of energy, water, electricity etc. a village like Sancoale and Benaulim enjoy good traditional sea food which is at present within the limits of amm admi this will not remain the same, vegetable and other food products will be out of reach of amm admi, although Goa is over crowded with currant situation, thanks to govt. employment policies and their vote banks, there will be more non goans will come to goa to work with Europeans without passport or visa or green card and out Politian will be more happy to issue them a ration card within minutes where it takes 3 days to get a birth certificate for a goan and on other side we goans will be running and queuing after agents with money and ministers to get a foreign visa or green card.



there are so many ways NRI goans can help goan comunity but not by selling goa to outsiders, I am sure there are many NRI's who are now experts on garbage bisposals and recycles this will be a best coause to come back to your home land and assist our goverment to solve this great mistry of garbage in goa.



dev borem korum.

Santano.

_________________________________________________________________
Live Search extreme As India feels the heat of poll season, get all the info you need on the MSN News Aggregator
http://news.in.msn.com/National/indiaelections2009/aggregator/default.aspx
Roland Francis
2009-07-05 16:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Santan,

Welcome to the Gobal Village:

Where Goans can go to work in the Gulf, cruise liners, Cayman Islands,
Swindon and then return to Goa to settle down.

Where Goans can emigrate overseas and the never return to Goa to settle down.

Where Goans can remain in Goa and work for someone else at local wage
levels or be self-employed, enterprising and get rich - all hopefully
within the law.

Where the world will beat a path to your doorstep if your land is
beautiful enough and you encourage them to come.

Where people can sell what they own to the highest bidder so that they
can use the money as they see fit.

Where Goans could have bought all the land in Goa they wanted before
India and the world discovered it. Shortsightedness is not anybody's
fault but your own.

Where every Goan does not have the right to own land or houses or
flats if their ancestors did not leave them anything or they were not
fortunate to be able to afford it themselves. India has chosen not to
be a communist or socialist country and you cannot expect to be given
land free or at low prices.

Please do not confuse selling land to foreigners with the breaking of
the law by Panchayats, Municipalities and the State Govt. Take the
lawbreakers to task, whether they are Goan, India or foreign.

All things being equal, foreigners are better neighbors - if they are
not riff-raff, they have been brought up to respect the law, they will
beautify their homes and the houses in the neighborhood will
ultimately fetch better prices because of this.

You may say traditional occupations in Goa are being lost. That is
happening everywhere. In one of the cities near Toronto called Oshawa,
the whole town depends on the GM van plants. These plants are the most
productive in North America and generations of Oshawans have worked
here. They are mostly just high schoolers but were earning about
$80,000 annually on assembly line jobs. All of a sudden GM hits the
dust and these plants close. No doubt these employees will get
unemployment insurance for the next 9 months but after that, kaput.

Life is not fair, but instead of moaning and complaining, use your
talents. Fight for justice if you have been wronged. Don't let the
politicians and the goondas frighten you. Instead of railing against
foreigners and Goans who sell their land to the highest bidder, choose
better battles.
Post by SANTANO VAZ
Reply to: British citizens buying property in Goa (Gabriel de Figueiredo)
We goans don?t have problem when our fellow goan brothers and sisters buy properties or settled in other countries, as their government encourages migration and hence their government are obliged to make law as per these regulations and they will do that as they have good infrastructure and vast land and very less population.
Mr. Gabriel might not been in Goa recently or might not aware of Goa?s Demography, its true that lots of Goans by the influence of Portuguese and Africa has managed to find a new place to settled and are able to buy properties but some has to sell their ancestral properties in Goa for quick and more money to well known Goan industrialist and non- goans to obtain a healthy bond deposits enough to settle in western world.
Selling Goan properties to such people was first initiated by these people who had a craze of going out of India. At this time goa was just liberated and Goan AMM ADMIN at that time was not able to afford to buy these properties and now when our generation wants to buy properties to our next generation after all hard work of Gulf and ships still we cannot effort the rates which are fixed by Land mafias.
Let me come to the point: Sancoale is the village in limelight ever since the ZACL or Birla came in Goa, a mega project called M-TECH is passed by Village Sarpanch without consulting the village member or even knowledge of some elected Panchayat members, thanks to the elected ministers and MLA?s. When the village come to know about this project it was opposed and has put on hold but the people who got or may get their benefits on this projects are still in favor and wants to get the clearance by force.
Being a member of this village I was not aware of any such project until one of my colleague a UK national who never visited Goa or even India in his life confirms me that he has bought an apartment in this so called M-TECH Beach village and this was happened due to good property sellers or broker are putting up their stalls in UK and other western countries to sell Goa in peaces.
Why Brits coming to Goa: this is what my UK colleagues told me. The cost of ?property and apartments is high in UK, in past few years very few people could afford and in next few years specially this generation who are in their twenties who still studies or worked as salaried they may not able to buy their own properties even if they work for 40 years from now.
My friend has booked this apartment with this broker?s office in UK just for ? 37,000 and the same might have cost him ? 320,000 in UK and this was confirmed by my other colleague who has bought a property in Spain with similar kind of project and these projects are introduced by their governments, they started their first project in Thailand, Cyprus, Spain and now they are in Goa not sure if they have any places in India, this is to help their average citizen to leave affordably, there can be other factors also involved which Goa will be in worlds map as next destination after Pathaya or phuket.
The local community of Goa is opposing all these projects which are now in heart of every single village, but Govt. still wants to bring such projects and wants to support this particular project M-TECH, no doubt some ministers and their family might got their UK citizenship or just waiting to get a business venture with counterpart.
Effects to AMM ADMIN: no doubt all these mega projects will have all facilities and so also it will required lot of energy, water, electricity etc. a village like Sancoale and Benaulim enjoy good traditional sea food which is at present within the limits of amm admi this will not remain the same, vegetable and other food products will be out of reach of amm admi, although Goa is over crowded with currant situation, thanks to govt. employment policies and their vote banks, there will be more non goans will come to goa to work with Europeans ?without passport or visa or green card and out Politian will be more happy to issue them a ration card within ?minutes where it takes 3 days to get a birth certificate for a goan and on other side we goans will be running and queuing after agents with money and ministers to get a foreign visa or green card.
there are so many ways NRI goans can help goan comunity but not by selling goa to outsiders, I am sure there are many NRI's who are now experts on garbage bisposals and recycles this will be a best coause to come back to your home land and assist our goverment to solve this great mistry of garbage in goa.
dev borem korum.
Santano.
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search extreme As India feels the heat of poll season, get all the info you need on the MSN News Aggregator
http://news.in.msn.com/National/indiaelections2009/aggregator/default.aspx
--
Roland Francis
http://roland-torontogoan.blogspot.com
+1 (416) 453.3371
Frederick Noronha
2009-07-05 17:10:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
All things being equal, foreigners are better neighbors - if they are
not riff-raff, they have been brought up to respect the law, they will
beautify their homes and the houses in the neighborhood will
ultimately fetch better prices because of this....
By "foreigners" do you mean a Sri Lankan Tamil in Toronto is a better
neighbour? Or a Dalit from Mayawati's UP is a better neighbour in Wimbledon?

Or, do you just mean "rich Whites" are better neighbours?

Is this another way of saying we Goans are as much (if not more)
class-biased and racist as they come... even when we are ourselves
brown, have mostly known poverty in our (or our parents) lifetimes, and
have live in the countries of the South in most cases (Asia including
Goa or Bombay or Karachi, Africa even if under a colonial dispensation,
the Gulf and so on....)

FN
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2009-07-06 01:09:32 UTC
Permalink
Frederico, read carefully what Roland wrote. "if they are not riff-raff, have been brought up to respect the law, they will ..."?.? We, in the western world, have our share of the riff-raff, aka "white trash".

Some of my friends are Sri Lankan Tamils, my own GP (doctor) is a Sri Lankan Tamil, and I have no qualms sharing my fence with them. Neither would I bat an eyelid if my neighbour came from a Dalit background - I've played with them and shared meals with them in my youth. My own neighbours come from different backgrounds (Greek, Italian, Anglo, Somali, Chinese, Aboriginal). And we all accept each other.

But there are certain people I could not live with, and those are the types who have absolutely no respect for themselves, for others or for the law. Oh yes they exist and they come from all backgrounds ranging from various shades of white to black, and they are the ones who have given Australia a bad name.

Regards,

Gabriel.??



----- Original Message ----
From: Frederick Noronha <fredericknoronha at gmail.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, 6 July, 2009 3:10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa
Post by Roland Francis
All things being equal, foreigners are better neighbors - if they are
not riff-raff, they have been brought up to respect the law, they will
beautify their homes and the houses in the neighborhood will
ultimately fetch better prices because of this....
By "foreigners" do you mean a Sri Lankan Tamil in Toronto is a better neighbour? Or a Dalit from Mayawati's UP is a better neighbour in Wimbledon?

Or, do you just mean "rich Whites" are better neighbours?


____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2009-07-06 01:09:32 UTC
Permalink
Frederico, read carefully what Roland wrote. "if they are not riff-raff, have been brought up to respect the law, they will ..."?.? We, in the western world, have our share of the riff-raff, aka "white trash".

Some of my friends are Sri Lankan Tamils, my own GP (doctor) is a Sri Lankan Tamil, and I have no qualms sharing my fence with them. Neither would I bat an eyelid if my neighbour came from a Dalit background - I've played with them and shared meals with them in my youth. My own neighbours come from different backgrounds (Greek, Italian, Anglo, Somali, Chinese, Aboriginal). And we all accept each other.

But there are certain people I could not live with, and those are the types who have absolutely no respect for themselves, for others or for the law. Oh yes they exist and they come from all backgrounds ranging from various shades of white to black, and they are the ones who have given Australia a bad name.

Regards,

Gabriel.??



----- Original Message ----
From: Frederick Noronha <fredericknoronha at gmail.com>
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Monday, 6 July, 2009 3:10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa
Post by Roland Francis
All things being equal, foreigners are better neighbors - if they are
not riff-raff, they have been brought up to respect the law, they will
beautify their homes and the houses in the neighborhood will
ultimately fetch better prices because of this....
By "foreigners" do you mean a Sri Lankan Tamil in Toronto is a better neighbour? Or a Dalit from Mayawati's UP is a better neighbour in Wimbledon?

Or, do you just mean "rich Whites" are better neighbours?


____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Frederick Noronha
2009-07-05 17:10:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
All things being equal, foreigners are better neighbors - if they are
not riff-raff, they have been brought up to respect the law, they will
beautify their homes and the houses in the neighborhood will
ultimately fetch better prices because of this....
By "foreigners" do you mean a Sri Lankan Tamil in Toronto is a better
neighbour? Or a Dalit from Mayawati's UP is a better neighbour in Wimbledon?

Or, do you just mean "rich Whites" are better neighbours?

Is this another way of saying we Goans are as much (if not more)
class-biased and racist as they come... even when we are ourselves
brown, have mostly known poverty in our (or our parents) lifetimes, and
have live in the countries of the South in most cases (Asia including
Goa or Bombay or Karachi, Africa even if under a colonial dispensation,
the Gulf and so on....)

FN
Roland Francis
2009-07-05 16:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Santan,

Welcome to the Gobal Village:

Where Goans can go to work in the Gulf, cruise liners, Cayman Islands,
Swindon and then return to Goa to settle down.

Where Goans can emigrate overseas and the never return to Goa to settle down.

Where Goans can remain in Goa and work for someone else at local wage
levels or be self-employed, enterprising and get rich - all hopefully
within the law.

Where the world will beat a path to your doorstep if your land is
beautiful enough and you encourage them to come.

Where people can sell what they own to the highest bidder so that they
can use the money as they see fit.

Where Goans could have bought all the land in Goa they wanted before
India and the world discovered it. Shortsightedness is not anybody's
fault but your own.

Where every Goan does not have the right to own land or houses or
flats if their ancestors did not leave them anything or they were not
fortunate to be able to afford it themselves. India has chosen not to
be a communist or socialist country and you cannot expect to be given
land free or at low prices.

Please do not confuse selling land to foreigners with the breaking of
the law by Panchayats, Municipalities and the State Govt. Take the
lawbreakers to task, whether they are Goan, India or foreign.

All things being equal, foreigners are better neighbors - if they are
not riff-raff, they have been brought up to respect the law, they will
beautify their homes and the houses in the neighborhood will
ultimately fetch better prices because of this.

You may say traditional occupations in Goa are being lost. That is
happening everywhere. In one of the cities near Toronto called Oshawa,
the whole town depends on the GM van plants. These plants are the most
productive in North America and generations of Oshawans have worked
here. They are mostly just high schoolers but were earning about
$80,000 annually on assembly line jobs. All of a sudden GM hits the
dust and these plants close. No doubt these employees will get
unemployment insurance for the next 9 months but after that, kaput.

Life is not fair, but instead of moaning and complaining, use your
talents. Fight for justice if you have been wronged. Don't let the
politicians and the goondas frighten you. Instead of railing against
foreigners and Goans who sell their land to the highest bidder, choose
better battles.
Post by SANTANO VAZ
Reply to: British citizens buying property in Goa (Gabriel de Figueiredo)
We goans don?t have problem when our fellow goan brothers and sisters buy properties or settled in other countries, as their government encourages migration and hence their government are obliged to make law as per these regulations and they will do that as they have good infrastructure and vast land and very less population.
Mr. Gabriel might not been in Goa recently or might not aware of Goa?s Demography, its true that lots of Goans by the influence of Portuguese and Africa has managed to find a new place to settled and are able to buy properties but some has to sell their ancestral properties in Goa for quick and more money to well known Goan industrialist and non- goans to obtain a healthy bond deposits enough to settle in western world.
Selling Goan properties to such people was first initiated by these people who had a craze of going out of India. At this time goa was just liberated and Goan AMM ADMIN at that time was not able to afford to buy these properties and now when our generation wants to buy properties to our next generation after all hard work of Gulf and ships still we cannot effort the rates which are fixed by Land mafias.
Let me come to the point: Sancoale is the village in limelight ever since the ZACL or Birla came in Goa, a mega project called M-TECH is passed by Village Sarpanch without consulting the village member or even knowledge of some elected Panchayat members, thanks to the elected ministers and MLA?s. When the village come to know about this project it was opposed and has put on hold but the people who got or may get their benefits on this projects are still in favor and wants to get the clearance by force.
Being a member of this village I was not aware of any such project until one of my colleague a UK national who never visited Goa or even India in his life confirms me that he has bought an apartment in this so called M-TECH Beach village and this was happened due to good property sellers or broker are putting up their stalls in UK and other western countries to sell Goa in peaces.
Why Brits coming to Goa: this is what my UK colleagues told me. The cost of ?property and apartments is high in UK, in past few years very few people could afford and in next few years specially this generation who are in their twenties who still studies or worked as salaried they may not able to buy their own properties even if they work for 40 years from now.
My friend has booked this apartment with this broker?s office in UK just for ? 37,000 and the same might have cost him ? 320,000 in UK and this was confirmed by my other colleague who has bought a property in Spain with similar kind of project and these projects are introduced by their governments, they started their first project in Thailand, Cyprus, Spain and now they are in Goa not sure if they have any places in India, this is to help their average citizen to leave affordably, there can be other factors also involved which Goa will be in worlds map as next destination after Pathaya or phuket.
The local community of Goa is opposing all these projects which are now in heart of every single village, but Govt. still wants to bring such projects and wants to support this particular project M-TECH, no doubt some ministers and their family might got their UK citizenship or just waiting to get a business venture with counterpart.
Effects to AMM ADMIN: no doubt all these mega projects will have all facilities and so also it will required lot of energy, water, electricity etc. a village like Sancoale and Benaulim enjoy good traditional sea food which is at present within the limits of amm admi this will not remain the same, vegetable and other food products will be out of reach of amm admi, although Goa is over crowded with currant situation, thanks to govt. employment policies and their vote banks, there will be more non goans will come to goa to work with Europeans ?without passport or visa or green card and out Politian will be more happy to issue them a ration card within ?minutes where it takes 3 days to get a birth certificate for a goan and on other side we goans will be running and queuing after agents with money and ministers to get a foreign visa or green card.
there are so many ways NRI goans can help goan comunity but not by selling goa to outsiders, I am sure there are many NRI's who are now experts on garbage bisposals and recycles this will be a best coause to come back to your home land and assist our goverment to solve this great mistry of garbage in goa.
dev borem korum.
Santano.
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search extreme As India feels the heat of poll season, get all the info you need on the MSN News Aggregator
http://news.in.msn.com/National/indiaelections2009/aggregator/default.aspx
--
Roland Francis
http://roland-torontogoan.blogspot.com
+1 (416) 453.3371
Mario Goveia
2009-07-06 14:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
All things being equal, foreigners are better neighbors - if they are
not riff-raff, they have been brought up to respect the law, they will
beautify their homes and the houses in the neighborhood will
ultimately fetch better prices because of this....
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:40:44 +0530
From: Frederick Noronha <fredericknoronha at gmail.com>

By "foreigners" do you mean a Sri Lankan Tamil in Toronto is a better
neighbour? Or a Dalit from Mayawati's UP is a better neighbour in Wimbledon?

Or, do you just mean "rich Whites" are better neighbours?

Is this another way of saying we Goans are as much (if not more)
class-biased and racist as they come... even when we are ourselves
brown, have mostly known poverty in our (or our parents) lifetimes, and
have live in the countries of the South in most cases (Asia including
Goa or Bombay or Karachi, Africa even if under a colonial dispensation,
the Gulf and so on....)

Mario asks:

Fred,

Doesn't it depend on the individual Sri Lankan Tamil or the Dalit Bhayya? In some cases, if they are educated and well-to-do professionals they may make as good neighbors as anyone else. However, their stereotypes almost certainly will not and you may end up with a neighborhoos redolent with the wafting aromas of sambhar and cow cakes:-)).

Also, is it "racist" to observe that "rich White" foreigners make better neighbors than poor brown desis as far as the neighborhood is concerned?

Or, is this just a fact.
Mario Goveia
2009-07-06 14:32:21 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:47:59 +0000
From: SANTANO VAZ <santanovaz at hotmail.com>

there are so many ways NRI goans can help goan comunity but not by selling goa to outsiders, I am sure there are many NRI's who are now experts on garbage bisposals and recycles this will be a best coause to come back to your home land and assist our goverment to solve this great mistry of garbage in goa.

Mario observes:

Why just NRI's? Do you think they are NRI's because their priority is Goa?

Selling Goa to any western foreign outsiders would help in addressing the garbage problem in Goa because a) they don't have a garbage problem in the countries they come from and b) they have the money to enhance the properties they buy.

The science of waste management is well developed in the west, and believe me, it is no mystery, just the will to make it a priority.

There is no reason for a country like India, with more brainpower than any other country except perhaps China, to also be one of the filthiest countries on the planet, or to have a xenophobic attitude towards "outsiders" and "foreigners" and the investment they bring. No one invests in a place with the intention of making it worse.
Ashley D'silva
2009-07-07 04:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Hello Santano,

What you sat makes sense.
Why ? ; If the infrastructure is not ready or created in advanced ; namely
Water , electricity, roads, sewer lines, telephone lines, gas lines ,garbage
disposal system etc there is going to be helluva a problem and all living
there will be inconvenienced terribly to the point of severe agitations
leading to sickness in the form of high blood pressure , diabetes, heart
problems - in short life will be too stressed for the people for someone
else's comfort. Its happening in Thane City, Navi Mumbai, Mumbai suburbs
and other places. Whose making whack are the builders who laugh all the way
to the banks.

So Think Deeply all and consider the +Ves & -Ves.
Ashley


-----Original Message-----
From: SANTANO VAZ


Reply to: British citizens buying property in Goa (Gabriel de Figueiredo)

We goans don't have problem when our fellow goan brothers and sisters buy
properties or settled in other countries, as their government encourages
migration and hence their government are obliged to make law as per these
regulations and they will do that as they have good infrastructure and vast
land and very less population.
George Pinto
2009-07-07 13:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Fernandes
The Government has acted on the concerns of British nationals about the
purchase of property in Goa.
We have made clear to the state authorities in Goa that we would be
extremely concerned if there were to be any question of property acquired
legally by British nationals being expropriated through the retrospective
application of any new legislation.
Hi Eddie

Again you have written "property acquired legally by British nationals" as if the LEGAL part is a given. You did not address my prior questions regarding these transactions:
1. Were any bribes paid in these transactions which make it ILLEGAL.
2. Were residency requirements met or circumvented which is ILLEGAL.
3. Were foreign currency regulations followed or laws violated which makes it ILLEGAL.
4. Were shell companies set up in violation of local laws which makes it ILLEGAL.

So how many of these supposedly "legal" transactions were LEGAL? I fail to see why you are blanket defending these transactions as Goan real estate agents in connivance with British nations have a reputation of violating real-estate laws in Goa. In fact some of them sell ONLY to British nationals. I know of one rich Goan couple from Bombay who were refused a purchase in Goa. Goans treated as second-class in Goa!!

So unless you are concerned about a personal transaction or some real-estate advertiser on GOAN VOICE-UK is threatening to withold advertising revenue if you do not support them, I fail to see why you support these transactions as if ALL were legal. Knowing how things operate in Goa I would be amazed if 100% of these transactions are "legal".

Regards,
George
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2009-07-07 14:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,

You have raised good questions. However, if you would (please) review,
Eddie refers specifically to

a: property acquired legally

b: (property) being expropriated through the retrospective application
of any new legislation


I suggest to you (and you may disagree) that Eddie's statement
(generically or otherwise) does NOT refer to property which may have
been purchased by way of illegalities or circumvention of the law as
it existed at the time of purchase.

These buyers (in any country) would NOT be entitled to equity before
the courts. For only those who have 'clean hands' may expect to
receive equity! (Sure, each case will have to be decided on the facts
of the case, and there might be mitigating circumstances in many
cases).

I submit (and I believe - so does Eddie): If "property acquired
legally is expropriated through the retrospective application of any
new legislation", it would be NO different from the actions of Mugabe.

Would you disagree with the above?

jc





[1] Eddie Fernandes <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com> wrote:

We would be extremely concerned if there were to be any question of
property acquired legally by British nationals being expropriated
through the retrospective application of any new legislation.

[2] George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Eddie

Again you have written "property acquired legally by British
nationals" as if the LEGAL part is a given. You did not address my
prior questions regarding these transactions:

1. Were any bribes paid in these transactions which make it ILLEGAL.
2. Were residency requirements met or circumvented which is ILLEGAL.
3. Were foreign currency regulations followed or laws violated which
makes it ILLEGAL.
4. Were shell companies set up in violation of local laws which makes
it ILLEGAL.

So how many of these supposedly "legal" transactions were LEGAL? I
fail to see why you are blanket defending these transactions as Goan
real estate agents in connivance with British nations have a
reputation of violating real-estate laws in Goa. In fact some of them
sell ONLY to British nationals. I know of one rich Goan couple from
Bombay who were refused a purchase in Goa. Goans treated as
second-class in Goa!!

So unless you are concerned about a personal transaction or some
real-estate advertiser on GOAN VOICE-UK is threatening to withold
advertising revenue if you do not support them, I fail to see why you
support these transactions as if ALL were legal. Knowing how things
operate in Goa I would be amazed if 100% of these transactions are
"legal".

Regards,
George
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-08 00:08:43 UTC
Permalink
George - My responses prefaced by **

Again you have written "property acquired legally by British nationals" as
if the LEGAL part is a given.
** I did not raise it again. FN quoted my earlier post which reproduced
the British Govt. response to the question.

1. Were any bribes paid in these transactions which make it ILLEGAL.
** Possible but I do not know of any.
2. Were residency requirements met or circumvented which is ILLEGAL.
** Met in most of the cases I am aware of
3. Were foreign currency regulations followed or laws violated which makes
it ILLEGAL.
** Followed in all the cases I am aware of
4. Were shell companies set up in violation of local laws which makes it
ILLEGAL.
** Possible but I do not know of any.

So how many of these supposedly "legal" transactions were LEGAL?
**100 per cent till any of them are proved illegal.

I fail to see why you are blanket defending these transactions as Goan real
estate agents in connivance with British nations have a reputation of
violating real-estate laws in Goa.
** When did I blanket defend the transactions? Please supply chapter and
verse. In fact I stated that the purchases covered a wide spectrum of
circumstances.

In fact some of them sell ONLY to British nationals. I know of one rich Goan
couple from Bombay who were refused a purchase in Goa. Goans treated as
second-class in Goa!!
** Is that a criminal act by British nationals?

So unless you are concerned about a personal transaction or some real-estate
advertiser on GOAN VOICE-UK is threatening to withold advertising revenue if
you do not support them, I fail to see why you support these transactions as
if ALL were legal.
** Now this takes the cake! The concept of supporting justice and fair play
is obviously foreign to you.

Knowing how things operate in Goa I would be amazed if 100% of these
transactions are "legal".
** You are right here. I too would be amazed if 100% are "legal" just as I
would be amazed if 100% are illegal.

I am grateful to Jose Colaco for explaining my position. You would
understand it too if you had read my posts. Please also follow the links to
the two BBC programmes I have provided.

Best wishes

Eddie Fernandes
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2009-07-07 14:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,

You have raised good questions. However, if you would (please) review,
Eddie refers specifically to

a: property acquired legally

b: (property) being expropriated through the retrospective application
of any new legislation


I suggest to you (and you may disagree) that Eddie's statement
(generically or otherwise) does NOT refer to property which may have
been purchased by way of illegalities or circumvention of the law as
it existed at the time of purchase.

These buyers (in any country) would NOT be entitled to equity before
the courts. For only those who have 'clean hands' may expect to
receive equity! (Sure, each case will have to be decided on the facts
of the case, and there might be mitigating circumstances in many
cases).

I submit (and I believe - so does Eddie): If "property acquired
legally is expropriated through the retrospective application of any
new legislation", it would be NO different from the actions of Mugabe.

Would you disagree with the above?

jc





[1] Eddie Fernandes <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com> wrote:

We would be extremely concerned if there were to be any question of
property acquired legally by British nationals being expropriated
through the retrospective application of any new legislation.

[2] George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Eddie

Again you have written "property acquired legally by British
nationals" as if the LEGAL part is a given. You did not address my
prior questions regarding these transactions:

1. Were any bribes paid in these transactions which make it ILLEGAL.
2. Were residency requirements met or circumvented which is ILLEGAL.
3. Were foreign currency regulations followed or laws violated which
makes it ILLEGAL.
4. Were shell companies set up in violation of local laws which makes
it ILLEGAL.

So how many of these supposedly "legal" transactions were LEGAL? I
fail to see why you are blanket defending these transactions as Goan
real estate agents in connivance with British nations have a
reputation of violating real-estate laws in Goa. In fact some of them
sell ONLY to British nationals. I know of one rich Goan couple from
Bombay who were refused a purchase in Goa. Goans treated as
second-class in Goa!!

So unless you are concerned about a personal transaction or some
real-estate advertiser on GOAN VOICE-UK is threatening to withold
advertising revenue if you do not support them, I fail to see why you
support these transactions as if ALL were legal. Knowing how things
operate in Goa I would be amazed if 100% of these transactions are
"legal".

Regards,
George
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-08 00:08:43 UTC
Permalink
George - My responses prefaced by **

Again you have written "property acquired legally by British nationals" as
if the LEGAL part is a given.
** I did not raise it again. FN quoted my earlier post which reproduced
the British Govt. response to the question.

1. Were any bribes paid in these transactions which make it ILLEGAL.
** Possible but I do not know of any.
2. Were residency requirements met or circumvented which is ILLEGAL.
** Met in most of the cases I am aware of
3. Were foreign currency regulations followed or laws violated which makes
it ILLEGAL.
** Followed in all the cases I am aware of
4. Were shell companies set up in violation of local laws which makes it
ILLEGAL.
** Possible but I do not know of any.

So how many of these supposedly "legal" transactions were LEGAL?
**100 per cent till any of them are proved illegal.

I fail to see why you are blanket defending these transactions as Goan real
estate agents in connivance with British nations have a reputation of
violating real-estate laws in Goa.
** When did I blanket defend the transactions? Please supply chapter and
verse. In fact I stated that the purchases covered a wide spectrum of
circumstances.

In fact some of them sell ONLY to British nationals. I know of one rich Goan
couple from Bombay who were refused a purchase in Goa. Goans treated as
second-class in Goa!!
** Is that a criminal act by British nationals?

So unless you are concerned about a personal transaction or some real-estate
advertiser on GOAN VOICE-UK is threatening to withold advertising revenue if
you do not support them, I fail to see why you support these transactions as
if ALL were legal.
** Now this takes the cake! The concept of supporting justice and fair play
is obviously foreign to you.

Knowing how things operate in Goa I would be amazed if 100% of these
transactions are "legal".
** You are right here. I too would be amazed if 100% are "legal" just as I
would be amazed if 100% are illegal.

I am grateful to Jose Colaco for explaining my position. You would
understand it too if you had read my posts. Please also follow the links to
the two BBC programmes I have provided.

Best wishes

Eddie Fernandes
George Pinto
2009-07-18 21:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Eddie, sorry for my late response. I agree with you that IF a legal transaction occurred and the Goa or India govt. is trying to reverse it, I would be outraged. But I question HOW MANY of these real estate transactions by British nationals in Goa were legal.

Given the illegal cesspool of Goan real estate "development", where illegal permits are obtained, land usurped, illegal hill-cutting, illegal constructions, bribes paid at various levels, property intentionally not sold to local Goans but only to foreigners and non-Goans, it is difficult for me to believe than more than a handful (and I am being generous here) of these British national transactions were legal.

Also difficult for me to believe the British nationals were innocent parties to these transactions and were unaware of the illegalities listed in the paragraph above - they are not THAT naive. Just call up some of the builders/sellers/agents in the UK of these Goan properties and they will immediately inform you how to circumvent the law. I do not need to inform you that Goa has quite a few unscrupulous real-estate lawyers and real-estate agents in cahoots with and under the patronage of Goan politicians.

How many of these builders/sellers/agents who advertise on Goan websites and who come to London at the Tourism mart, comply with the law?

Regards,
George
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-20 00:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,

My responses are preceded with **
Your quotations are preceded by >
in many cases some builders refuse to sell to Goans...
**So, how many is some? Can you name and shame many? Or some? Or many of
IF a legal transaction occurred . I would be outraged.
**Now your outrage is peppered with ifs and butts! It is my contention too
But I question HOW MANY . were legal.
**Are we back to many of some? You then go on to accept that
it is difficult for me to believe than more than a handful were legal.
**So is a handful some of many or many of some? Surely it must be more than
one! If so, can we get to see your display of outrage, please?
How many of these builders/sellers/agents . come to London at the Tourism
mart, comply with the law?

** 100% since builders/sellers/agents do not come to the London Tourism
Mart!

** Take care - your bias is showing!

Best wishes

Eddie Fernandes
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-20 00:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,

My responses are preceded with **
Your quotations are preceded by >
in many cases some builders refuse to sell to Goans...
**So, how many is some? Can you name and shame many? Or some? Or many of
IF a legal transaction occurred . I would be outraged.
**Now your outrage is peppered with ifs and butts! It is my contention too
But I question HOW MANY . were legal.
**Are we back to many of some? You then go on to accept that
it is difficult for me to believe than more than a handful were legal.
**So is a handful some of many or many of some? Surely it must be more than
one! If so, can we get to see your display of outrage, please?
How many of these builders/sellers/agents . come to London at the Tourism
mart, comply with the law?

** 100% since builders/sellers/agents do not come to the London Tourism
Mart!

** Take care - your bias is showing!

Best wishes

Eddie Fernandes
George Pinto
2009-07-20 06:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Fernandes
** Take care - your bias is showing!
Dear Eddie

My bias in FAVOR of law and order is showing. Guilty as charged. See article below from today's NAVHIND TIMES about ILLEGAL land purchases by foreign nationals, including BRITISH nationals.

TWO QUOTES:
"Over 450 illegal land deals involving British, Russians, Germans, etc have been unearthed."

"Dozens of United Kingdom nationals, who constitute a chunk of those who have been booked for violation of FEMA,"

Regards,
George

http://www.navhindtimes.in/news/goa-news/938-over-450-illegal-land-deals-by-foreigners

PANAJI:
Ever since it was established that a large number of foreigners of different nationalities had unauthorizedly purchased huge plots of land in the state, the government agencies have begun investigations into the land deals. Over 450 illegal land deals involving British, Russians, Germans, etc have been unearthed.

Most of the land that has been bought by foreign nationals is along the
state?s coastline and prime locations. It has been revealed that the
foreigners have ?illegally? bought over 12 lakh square metres of land in the state.

The Enforcement Department, which looks after cases of violation of Foreign
Exchange Management Act, has issued show-cause notices to a large number of
companies owned by foreigners asking their officials to explain why action
should not be taken for violating the state laws.

Dozens of United Kingdom nationals, who constitute a chunk of those who have been booked for violation of FEMA, recently raked up the issue and
petitioned their Prime Minister, Mr Gordon Brown claiming harassment by Goan officials in registering the land deals.

Though it was reported that Mr Brown had intervened in the matter and had
written to Indian officials, the state officials said that they have not yet received any correspondence from the British Prime Minister or any of the central agencies.

?There has not been any sort of officials communication from any quarter so
far, they said. The senior officials in the state administration denied the claim made by the UK nationals that they were being harassed and said that these people (against whom action has been initiated) had purchased the land in total violation of the country?s laws that govern purchase of land by foreigners.

?How can we register any deal that has been made against the law of the
land,? said a senior government official even as he denied that any person
was ever harassed while seeking registration of a legal deal. The state
government officials, however, admitted that it has come to notice that the
purchases could have been done in connivance with some unscrupulous
elements.

The officials also said that many foreigners were ?lured? into making
purchases by some locals, including a few lawyers and other officials,
adding that some foreigners had given written complaints that they were
misled at every step of land deals by ?everybody? involved in the deals and
that they were ignorant of the law.

The officials, however, said that they would proceed with the cases in
accordance with the provisions of law and take appropriate action as laid
down in law. They also said that Enforcement Department was already looking
into the matter and action would follow soon.
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-20 22:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear George
Post by George Pinto
My bias in FAVOR of law and order is showing. Guilty as charged.
** I was expecting that response. So do you favour the punishment of the
victims and that the perpetrators get away scot free? Do you favour the
retrospective application of legislation that was in any case denied
Presidential assent? Do you favour the two years of harassment that 480 or
so foreign nationals have faced?
Post by George Pinto
See article below from today's NAVHIND TIMES about ILLEGAL land purchases
by foreign nationals, including BRITISH nationals.

** I not only saw it but read it and put in on Goan Voice some 9 hours
before receiving your post. I also quoted several extracts from it. You
posted the whole article on this forum in a feeble attempt to avoid
answering my questions. If you are not to lose all credibility in our eyes
please answer the following:

1. You wrote that "in many cases some builders refuse to sell to Goans" I
asked you how many is some? Can you name and shame many? Or some? Or many of
some?

2. You wrote "IF a legal transaction occurred . I would be outraged" You
then state "it is difficult for me to believe than more than a handful were
legal" Surely a handful must be more than one so can we see your display of
outrage, please?

3. How many of these builders/sellers/agents come to London at the Tourism
mart, comply with the law? I claimed 100%. What is your figure, since you
asked?

4. Previously you wrote: "I fail to see why you are blanket defending these
transactions" My question was, When did I blanket defend the transactions?
Please supply chapter and verse.

5. You wrote: "In fact some of them sell ONLY to British nationals." My
question was "Is that a criminal act by British nationals?"

6. You wrote "So how many of these supposedly "legal" transactions were
LEGAL?" I responded, "100 per cent till any of them are proved illegal."
Now, sir, since you have such a strong self-proclaimed bias towards law and
order, What is your figure?


Thank you!

Eddie Fernandes
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-20 22:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear George
Post by George Pinto
My bias in FAVOR of law and order is showing. Guilty as charged.
** I was expecting that response. So do you favour the punishment of the
victims and that the perpetrators get away scot free? Do you favour the
retrospective application of legislation that was in any case denied
Presidential assent? Do you favour the two years of harassment that 480 or
so foreign nationals have faced?
Post by George Pinto
See article below from today's NAVHIND TIMES about ILLEGAL land purchases
by foreign nationals, including BRITISH nationals.

** I not only saw it but read it and put in on Goan Voice some 9 hours
before receiving your post. I also quoted several extracts from it. You
posted the whole article on this forum in a feeble attempt to avoid
answering my questions. If you are not to lose all credibility in our eyes
please answer the following:

1. You wrote that "in many cases some builders refuse to sell to Goans" I
asked you how many is some? Can you name and shame many? Or some? Or many of
some?

2. You wrote "IF a legal transaction occurred . I would be outraged" You
then state "it is difficult for me to believe than more than a handful were
legal" Surely a handful must be more than one so can we see your display of
outrage, please?

3. How many of these builders/sellers/agents come to London at the Tourism
mart, comply with the law? I claimed 100%. What is your figure, since you
asked?

4. Previously you wrote: "I fail to see why you are blanket defending these
transactions" My question was, When did I blanket defend the transactions?
Please supply chapter and verse.

5. You wrote: "In fact some of them sell ONLY to British nationals." My
question was "Is that a criminal act by British nationals?"

6. You wrote "So how many of these supposedly "legal" transactions were
LEGAL?" I responded, "100 per cent till any of them are proved illegal."
Now, sir, since you have such a strong self-proclaimed bias towards law and
order, What is your figure?


Thank you!

Eddie Fernandes
Cajetan Alvares
2009-07-20 12:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Why can't the British Citizens buy land in Goa?
Indians as Commonewalth Citizens can do so in UK!
Secondly, are the people from the rest of India any previlaged to buy land
in Goa?
But they are, and paying more for it.

How come this happens? - Simple.
One Govt. employess are transfered to Goa, Goans are transfered elsewhere in
India too.

One Indian is transfered to Goa, his dad (retired Govt. employee who made
money by taking bribes) followed him.
His dad with his illgotten money, opens a restaurant in Panjim (I have eaten
there).
They intend buying land and building a house in Goa, his dad said his other
sons will come as well.
For now the son his wife and his dad and his wife are in Goa, working and
doing business.

All this in return for one transfer.
How many Goans have done this in other parts of India?
Caj.
George Pinto
2009-07-21 00:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Eddie

I see you are trying to wiggle out of the core issue about the claimed legality of real estate transactions by British nationals (others nationals are also involved but the subject line focused on British). I don't recall when or who posted an email about a petition that British nationals were asking Gordon Brown to intervene. You clearly supported that petition.

My claim has been and continues to be, I doubt more than a handful of real estate transactions by these British nationals were legal given the illegal cesspool of real estate transactions in Goa, and that British nationals could not be THAT naive when they entered these into transactions as they now claim to be innocent victims.

Again (and you seem to have difficulty here), I support legal transactions. You support it too, the difference being I don't think too many of these transactions were legal and the NAVHIND TIMES article clear backs me up. So before you try and get me to answer your diversionary questions why don't you tell us how many of the transactions you believe are legal and on what basis considering two factors: the state of illegal real estate transactions in Goa and the NAVHIND article.

Regards,
George
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-21 01:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,
I have already made it clear that 100% are legal taking all factors into
account, till they are proved to be illegal. Read the text of the petition
carefully and you will wish to support it too!

Now if you can answer the questions, please, sir!

Thanks

Eddie

====================================

From: George Pinto
So before you try and get me to answer your diversionary questions why don't
you tell us how many of the transactions you believe are legal and on what
basis considering two factors: the state of illegal real estate transactions
in Goa and the NAVHIND article.
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-27 19:19:41 UTC
Permalink
From: George Pinto on 21 July
Post by George Pinto
So before you try and get me to answer your diversionary questions why
don't you tell us how many of the transactions you believe are legal and on
what basis considering two factors: the state of illegal real estate
transactions in Goa and the NAVHIND article.
Wake up George and let us have your answers. Here is something new for you
to chew over!

Foreigner fallout. Herald 26 July 2009

"Early bookings of holiday packages to Goa by British tourists are showing a
20 per cent drop over last year. This may well be expected after air fares
and hotel rates have gone up, and the western countries are looking at an
economic slowdown that could well settle into a sustained recession or, even
worse, stagflation. But there's more where that came from. Not only that,
the widespread negative publicity of the Scarlet Keeling case, followed by
Revenue Minister Dayanand Narvekar's move to stop registration of property
transactions involving foreigners has had a massive fallout.

Recently, the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) did a series of shows
on the issue, talking to a wide range of foreigners who bought houses,
apartments or started small restaurants in Goa after going through a
perfectly legal process, abiding by all the requirements of the Foreign
Exchange Management Act (FEMA) and the Reserve Bank of India (RBI). Now,
hundreds of these perfectly law abiding people are finding that they cannot
sell the properties they bought, owing to a dubious rule enacted by the Goa
government. And, when ministers like Churchill Alemao make baseless but
dramatic statements that properties of foreigners will be 'seized' and
'auctioned', it causes outrage.

What ought to cause even more outrage is the fact that while the cases of
hundreds of law-abiding foreign small property owners have been referred to
the Enforcement Directorate (ED) for investigation, the actual cause for
concern - large properties bought by shadowy individuals illegally - remains
hidden on government files, even after several requests by the ED. This kind
of chicanery shows that the government is not serious about taking on the
mafias of this world. Rather, it seeks to distract the people's attention
from them by flooding the ED with cases that have few, if any, illegalities.

All these issues have also contributed to the general feeling of
disenchantment among those who were Goa's most ardent champions in Britain.
The very people who held out this state as an ideal destination for the
British are now changing their tune, thanks to the way the government has
treated them. Word of mouth, any businessman will tell you, is the most
powerful of promotion and advertisement strategies. If Goa is being
badmouthed in Britain by the very people who earlier sang its praises, it is
bound to have an impact.

It is time that the tourism industry in the state also realised that Goa is
no longer the low-cost destination it used to be. South East Asia - mainly
Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia - offer comparable facilities at much lower
rates. Unless they can gear up to take on the competition, in bad times,
people will always go for the lower-cost destination. In which case, as
things stand now, Goa loses."

===================================================
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-21 01:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,
I have already made it clear that 100% are legal taking all factors into
account, till they are proved to be illegal. Read the text of the petition
carefully and you will wish to support it too!

Now if you can answer the questions, please, sir!

Thanks

Eddie

====================================

From: George Pinto
So before you try and get me to answer your diversionary questions why don't
you tell us how many of the transactions you believe are legal and on what
basis considering two factors: the state of illegal real estate transactions
in Goa and the NAVHIND article.
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-27 19:19:41 UTC
Permalink
From: George Pinto on 21 July
Post by George Pinto
So before you try and get me to answer your diversionary questions why
don't you tell us how many of the transactions you believe are legal and on
what basis considering two factors: the state of illegal real estate
transactions in Goa and the NAVHIND article.
Wake up George and let us have your answers. Here is something new for you
to chew over!

Foreigner fallout. Herald 26 July 2009

"Early bookings of holiday packages to Goa by British tourists are showing a
20 per cent drop over last year. This may well be expected after air fares
and hotel rates have gone up, and the western countries are looking at an
economic slowdown that could well settle into a sustained recession or, even
worse, stagflation. But there's more where that came from. Not only that,
the widespread negative publicity of the Scarlet Keeling case, followed by
Revenue Minister Dayanand Narvekar's move to stop registration of property
transactions involving foreigners has had a massive fallout.

Recently, the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) did a series of shows
on the issue, talking to a wide range of foreigners who bought houses,
apartments or started small restaurants in Goa after going through a
perfectly legal process, abiding by all the requirements of the Foreign
Exchange Management Act (FEMA) and the Reserve Bank of India (RBI). Now,
hundreds of these perfectly law abiding people are finding that they cannot
sell the properties they bought, owing to a dubious rule enacted by the Goa
government. And, when ministers like Churchill Alemao make baseless but
dramatic statements that properties of foreigners will be 'seized' and
'auctioned', it causes outrage.

What ought to cause even more outrage is the fact that while the cases of
hundreds of law-abiding foreign small property owners have been referred to
the Enforcement Directorate (ED) for investigation, the actual cause for
concern - large properties bought by shadowy individuals illegally - remains
hidden on government files, even after several requests by the ED. This kind
of chicanery shows that the government is not serious about taking on the
mafias of this world. Rather, it seeks to distract the people's attention
from them by flooding the ED with cases that have few, if any, illegalities.

All these issues have also contributed to the general feeling of
disenchantment among those who were Goa's most ardent champions in Britain.
The very people who held out this state as an ideal destination for the
British are now changing their tune, thanks to the way the government has
treated them. Word of mouth, any businessman will tell you, is the most
powerful of promotion and advertisement strategies. If Goa is being
badmouthed in Britain by the very people who earlier sang its praises, it is
bound to have an impact.

It is time that the tourism industry in the state also realised that Goa is
no longer the low-cost destination it used to be. South East Asia - mainly
Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia - offer comparable facilities at much lower
rates. Unless they can gear up to take on the competition, in bad times,
people will always go for the lower-cost destination. In which case, as
things stand now, Goa loses."

===================================================
George Pinto
2009-07-27 21:02:58 UTC
Permalink
Eddie would like to waste my time with a non-answer to my question below and expect me to respond. See his response below. Anyone who believes that "100% [of real estate transactions by British nationals in Goa] are legal taking all factors into account, till they are proved to be illegal" is welcome to do so. Notice the cute lawyerly language of "are legal taking all factors into account, till they are proved to be illegal". The Govt has already identified 450+ cases they are investigating, some of which involve British nationals. In the face of what is known of the illegal cesspool of real estate transactions in Goa, Eddie wants me to believe Santa Claus is real for British nationals. More power to you Eddie.

And he forwards a HERALD article which has this amazing line "Recently, the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) did a series of shows
on the issue, talking to a wide range of foreigners who bought houses,
apartments or started small restaurants in Goa after going through a
perfectly legal process, abiding by all the requirements of the Foreign
Exchange Management Act (FEMA) and the Reserve Bank of India (RBI)." So we are expected to believe BBC interviews with people who bought the properties and accept their claim that the transaction is legal?! What are they expected to say "I paid a bribe, I violated FEMA and other regulations and I hope the govt. investigates me". Gimme me a break. Did BBC interview govt. officials for their side of the story? Not that I would give any credence to them either given what we know about land use, "regularization" in Goa, etc.

I have nothing further to add, readers can make my their own mind.

Regards,
George
Post by Eddie Fernandes
From: George Pinto on 21 July
Post by George Pinto
So before you try and get me to answer your diversionary questions why
don't you tell us how many of the transactions you believe are legal
and on what basis considering two factors: the state of illegal real
estate transactions in Goa and the NAVHIND article.
Dear George,
I have already made it clear that 100% are legal taking all factors into
account, till they are proved to be illegal. Read the text of the petition
carefully and you will wish to support it too!

Now if you can answer the questions, please, sir!

Thanks

Eddie
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-28 01:27:15 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,

In a shameless effort to avoid answering the questions, as initially
promised, you continue to dig yourself in deeper holes! Now you ask
Post by George Pinto
Did BBC interview govt. officials for their side of the story?
I have previously provided links to the transcripts and audio recordings of
the BBC programmes. Goa Ministers and bureaucrats were interviewed, with
excruciating results. Do check them out!

Why do you find it impossible to accept my contentions:

1. That the 450+ cases cover a wide spectrum of circumstances and it would
be invidious for any of us (read you or me) to generalise or make any claims
as to the number of guilty or innocent cases.

2. That in law every one is innocent till they are proved guilty .

Unless there is a Mugabe sitting in judgment. Are you?

Best wishes

Eddie
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-28 01:27:15 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,

In a shameless effort to avoid answering the questions, as initially
promised, you continue to dig yourself in deeper holes! Now you ask
Post by George Pinto
Did BBC interview govt. officials for their side of the story?
I have previously provided links to the transcripts and audio recordings of
the BBC programmes. Goa Ministers and bureaucrats were interviewed, with
excruciating results. Do check them out!

Why do you find it impossible to accept my contentions:

1. That the 450+ cases cover a wide spectrum of circumstances and it would
be invidious for any of us (read you or me) to generalise or make any claims
as to the number of guilty or innocent cases.

2. That in law every one is innocent till they are proved guilty .

Unless there is a Mugabe sitting in judgment. Are you?

Best wishes

Eddie
George Pinto
2009-07-28 03:32:37 UTC
Permalink
--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Eddie Fernandes" <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Unless there is a Mugabe sitting in judgment.? Are you?
I did not realize I had won the argument against a learned gentleman like Eddie, but when the smears start, I realize the opponent has turned in the towel. Nothing further to add.

Regards,
George
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2009-07-28 14:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Must I say that George Pinto makes a very valid point i.e. Eddie Fernandes
is a learned gentleman. That he absolutely is. Eddie (surely assisted by his
access to published material and his zeal to read and publish) is well read
and learned ......and he is an absolute gentleman. Anybody who has met him
personally (like I have) will confirm this.

Here are some of the Eddie's points with which I agree.

1: If there are properties which have been LEGALLY purchased under the
prevailing (at the time of purchase) Indian Law by anybody (British citizens
included), the said properties have been purchased legally.

2: It is illegal / unconstitutional / unethical (as per the Indian
Constitution as it stands now) to pass laws in 2009 and make them
retrospectively applicable for properties purchased antes Presidential
Assent of the said law.

3: Unless ....the President in question is Mugabe.

4: In no democratic court of law - Is a person expected to prove his
innocence. The burden to prove guilt is on the accuser. There are exceptions
to this law - as in The Goa Children's Act 2003, certain GoaNet
pronouncements by Aires Rodrigues, Mugabe, and now .....from the looks of it
.....the uncharacteristic arguments of George Pinto.

I personally believe that the issue of the short-fall of the UK tourists to
Goa is irrelevant to the basic legality of what is being proposed with
regard to the said properties.

Every democratic country and its courts have a choice they can make: They
can choose to be fair and equitable, or they can be like Mugabe.

I suggest further that one can always find an 'clause' in the law to
confiscate another man's rights and property. The question for the courts
and the country is: Is it the reasonable, fair and equitable thing to do?

Sure ...this principle is not applicable to the Mugabes of this world.

As far as "they" are concerned: They are merely "liberating" the land. This
is the standard operating procedure presently used by modern day gundas,
even gundas who speak a variation of the English language.

jc

==

2009/7/27 George Pinto georgejpinto at yahoo.com

I did not realize I had won the argument against a learned gentleman like
Eddie, but when the smears start, I realize the opponent has turned in the
towel. Nothing further to add.
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-28 17:49:04 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Jose for explaining the situation which I was unable to express
clearly enough for George. It is unlikely that he will reply to the
questions as promised. I do apologise to him for assuming that he is a man
of his word.

I have been holding back two critical arguments:

1. In all of the 450+ cases the subregistrars had issued the sale deeds
to the foreigners. Legalities should have questioned before doing so. To
enquire now about the circumstances of purchase is taking retrospective
action.

2. Two years ago the Goa Assembly passed a Bill which empowered
subregistrars to refuse registration of property sold to foreigners. This
required the President's assent which has recently been refused. The Goa
Government then requested special status and this too looks set for refusal.
See Economic Times, 29 June 2009 at
http://goanvoiceuk.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/goa-seeks-special-powers-to-cont
rol-land-sale-to-foreigners-economic-times-29-jun-2009-page-4/
Yet the Goa Govt is continuing denying the sale, transfer or registration
rights to foreigners.

And don't forget that our George claims to have a bias in FAVOR of law and
order!

Eddie
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-28 17:49:04 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Jose for explaining the situation which I was unable to express
clearly enough for George. It is unlikely that he will reply to the
questions as promised. I do apologise to him for assuming that he is a man
of his word.

I have been holding back two critical arguments:

1. In all of the 450+ cases the subregistrars had issued the sale deeds
to the foreigners. Legalities should have questioned before doing so. To
enquire now about the circumstances of purchase is taking retrospective
action.

2. Two years ago the Goa Assembly passed a Bill which empowered
subregistrars to refuse registration of property sold to foreigners. This
required the President's assent which has recently been refused. The Goa
Government then requested special status and this too looks set for refusal.
See Economic Times, 29 June 2009 at
http://goanvoiceuk.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/goa-seeks-special-powers-to-cont
rol-land-sale-to-foreigners-economic-times-29-jun-2009-page-4/
Yet the Goa Govt is continuing denying the sale, transfer or registration
rights to foreigners.

And don't forget that our George claims to have a bias in FAVOR of law and
order!

Eddie
unknown
2009-07-28 18:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Mugabe v. 1983 or Mugabe v. 2009? Or is ther some Freudian slip
showing here, which pits you guys against the takeover of "White
settlers" land :-) FN
Post by George Pinto
--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Eddie Fernandes" <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Unless there is a Mugabe sitting in judgment.? Are you?
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2009-07-28 14:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Must I say that George Pinto makes a very valid point i.e. Eddie Fernandes
is a learned gentleman. That he absolutely is. Eddie (surely assisted by his
access to published material and his zeal to read and publish) is well read
and learned ......and he is an absolute gentleman. Anybody who has met him
personally (like I have) will confirm this.

Here are some of the Eddie's points with which I agree.

1: If there are properties which have been LEGALLY purchased under the
prevailing (at the time of purchase) Indian Law by anybody (British citizens
included), the said properties have been purchased legally.

2: It is illegal / unconstitutional / unethical (as per the Indian
Constitution as it stands now) to pass laws in 2009 and make them
retrospectively applicable for properties purchased antes Presidential
Assent of the said law.

3: Unless ....the President in question is Mugabe.

4: In no democratic court of law - Is a person expected to prove his
innocence. The burden to prove guilt is on the accuser. There are exceptions
to this law - as in The Goa Children's Act 2003, certain GoaNet
pronouncements by Aires Rodrigues, Mugabe, and now .....from the looks of it
.....the uncharacteristic arguments of George Pinto.

I personally believe that the issue of the short-fall of the UK tourists to
Goa is irrelevant to the basic legality of what is being proposed with
regard to the said properties.

Every democratic country and its courts have a choice they can make: They
can choose to be fair and equitable, or they can be like Mugabe.

I suggest further that one can always find an 'clause' in the law to
confiscate another man's rights and property. The question for the courts
and the country is: Is it the reasonable, fair and equitable thing to do?

Sure ...this principle is not applicable to the Mugabes of this world.

As far as "they" are concerned: They are merely "liberating" the land. This
is the standard operating procedure presently used by modern day gundas,
even gundas who speak a variation of the English language.

jc

==

2009/7/27 George Pinto georgejpinto at yahoo.com

I did not realize I had won the argument against a learned gentleman like
Eddie, but when the smears start, I realize the opponent has turned in the
towel. Nothing further to add.
Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या
2009-07-28 18:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Mugabe v. 1983 or Mugabe v. 2009? Or is ther some Freudian slip
showing here, which pits you guys against the takeover of "White
settlers" land :-) FN
Post by George Pinto
--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Eddie Fernandes" <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Unless there is a Mugabe sitting in judgment.? Are you?
George Pinto
2009-07-29 03:34:17 UTC
Permalink
I do apologise to him for assuming that he is a man of his word.
My, my, my. Eddie has gone from smear (Mugabe) to insult, clearly demonstrating I won this debate. I humbly stand victorious and accept his apology for my word or any word for that matter.
1.?In all of the 450+ cases the subregistrars had issued the sale deeds
to the foreigners.?Legalities should have questioned before doing so.?
Legal nonsense. Many transactions, including say filing an income-tax return, do not require the agency to rule on the legality of the transaction at the time of submission. If fraud is later uncovered, it can be investigated, within the statute of limitations.
To enquire now about the circumstances of purchase is taking
retrospective action.
If the transaction is legal, no govt. or agency should intimidate legal parties. No govt. or agency should retrospectively change the law, or reverse a LEGAL transaction. I have been saying as much all along, falling on Eddie's deaf years. The key word is LEGAL. I do not believe 100% of real estate transactions involving British nationals are legal given what we know of the legal cesspool of real estate transactions in Goa.
And don't forget that our George claims to have a bias in FAVOR of law
and order!
Yes, British nationals should not be exempt from complying with the law. If they have complied, hurrah for them.

Regards,
George
George Pinto
2009-07-29 03:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
1: If there are properties which have been LEGALLY purchased under the
prevailing (at the time of purchase) Indian Law by anybody (British
citizens included), the said properties have been purchased legally.
I agree. The key word is LEGALLY.
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2: It is illegal / unconstitutional / unethical (as per the
Indian Constitution as it stands now) to pass laws in 2009 and
make them retrospectively applicable for properties purchased antes
Presidential Assent of the said law.
I agree.
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
3: Unless ....the President in question is Mugabe.
So Eddie attributes something to me that I have not written, implying I would support confiscation of properties. I have written NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, on confiscation of properties by the Goa govt. (a la Mugabe). Yet Eddie who wants to distract from his amazing claim that 100% of British national real estate transactions are legal with the caveat as far as he knows, writes this smear and Jose repeats it. This is Goan logic at work on the internet. You guys are the besht.
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
I personally believe that the issue of the short-fall of
the UK tourists to Goa is irrelevant to the basic legality of what is
being proposed with regard to the said properties.
May be the shortfall in tourism has to do with people posting "Goa is a toilet" some months back. Gee, I wonder who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
Is it the reasonable, fair and equitable thing to do? Sure ...this
principle is not applicable to the Mugabes of this world.
I wonder if Eddie asked himself about the fair and equitable thing to do as Jose writes above, when he published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple a year ago. Oh, I'm sorry, fair and equitable, due process, etc. applies to everyone else.

Regards,
George
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-29 14:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,

I had resolved not to answer your questions till you have responded to mine.
Moreover, you had indicated that you would do so. Now you are playing dirty
politics by raking up old unrelated issues to attempt to drive a wedge in
the support base I have! Are you morally bankrupt and totally devoid of any
ethical scruples?
Post by George Pinto
I wonder who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
he published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple a
year ago.

To my list of questions could you also let us know
1. Who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
2. Who "published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple
a year ago"?

I am more than happy to respond to these questions after you have answered
the original questions. Please do so if you do not want to lose all
credibility.


Thanking you,

Eddie Fernandes
===============================

George Pinto wrote:

I wonder who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?

he published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple a
year ago.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2009-07-29 11:58:18 UTC
Permalink
George Pinto 1: If the transaction is legal, no govt. or agency should
intimidate legal parties. No govt. or agency should retrospectively
change the law, or reverse a LEGAL transaction. I have been saying as
much ALL ALONG..

jc 1: Grateful if GEORGE would please direct me (at least) to his
posts in which he has 'been saying as much all along'.

--

George Pinto 2: Yet Eddie ...... writes this smear and Jose repeats it.

JC 2: Grateful IF George would please identify the smear.

--

George Pinto 3: Yet Eddie ..... his amazing claim that 100% of British
national real estate transactions are legal with the caveat.

JC 3: I do understand that some of us may have been 'liberated' by the
Goviean logic of recent times, BUT Is George Pinto suggesting that it
is AMAZING to state that a transaction is legal unless proved
otherwise? Really! ? That is indeed amazing.

--

George Pinto then takes a swipe at Eddie ...which I believe he is
entitled to. A man is allowed to use all the monkey wrenches at his
disposal in order to extricate himself from the the Mugabesque corner.
George writes drawing attn to Eddie's 'Goa is a toilet' postings or
repostings:

George Pinto 4: May be the shortfall in tourism has to do with people
posting "Goa is a toilet" some months back. Gee, I wonder who posted
that "Goa is a toilet"?

JC 4: No relationship to the perceived official illegality in the land
transaction situation being discussed here ...BUT will say this:
Beautiful Brochures attract a first, second ....100th set of people.
What they actually find there (toilet, corrupt cops, or coniving
lawyers etc) will determine IF they will return. Word of mouth and
blogs take care of that. (Please note the 'hot story' presently doing
rounds about the scam at Thailand's new airport.)

BTW: Especially when finances are tough, 'toilets' are not great spots
to spend vacations unless one eats the pani puri from those 'ghati'
road-side stalls.

--

In another unrelated monkey wrench attack on Eddie by George Pinto,

George Pinto 5: I wonder if Eddie asked himself about the fair and
equitable thing to do as Jose writes above, when he published a hit
piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple a year ago.

JC 5: First of all, let's describe the piece correctly. It was a
"hit-and run" piece. Now ....publishing that per se, cannot be
classified as being 'unfair or inequitable' UNLESS Eddie failed to
post any direct response to that article from the 'Toronto couple'.

BTW: I am glad that George brought this up even by way of monkey
'wrenchedness'. Has the Goan community, even on this list, actually
analysed WHO or WHAT was behind that horrible attack - not only on the
Toronto couple, BUT also on the couple's young daughter?

Has George Pinto asked any questions on the matter? Has he followed it
up? IF NOT, why is he bring it up in the midst of this topic? Is he
trying to ambush Eddie?

If so, it appears that Fixed Nooj and the Goveians have had more
effect on Goans than I hitherto believed they would.

jc

At? amanha
Eddie Fernandes
2009-07-29 14:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Dear George,

I had resolved not to answer your questions till you have responded to mine.
Moreover, you had indicated that you would do so. Now you are playing dirty
politics by raking up old unrelated issues to attempt to drive a wedge in
the support base I have! Are you morally bankrupt and totally devoid of any
ethical scruples?
Post by George Pinto
I wonder who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
he published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple a
year ago.

To my list of questions could you also let us know
1. Who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
2. Who "published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple
a year ago"?

I am more than happy to respond to these questions after you have answered
the original questions. Please do so if you do not want to lose all
credibility.


Thanking you,

Eddie Fernandes
===============================

George Pinto wrote:

I wonder who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?

he published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple a
year ago.
colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2009-07-29 11:58:18 UTC
Permalink
George Pinto 1: If the transaction is legal, no govt. or agency should
intimidate legal parties. No govt. or agency should retrospectively
change the law, or reverse a LEGAL transaction. I have been saying as
much ALL ALONG..

jc 1: Grateful if GEORGE would please direct me (at least) to his
posts in which he has 'been saying as much all along'.

--

George Pinto 2: Yet Eddie ...... writes this smear and Jose repeats it.

JC 2: Grateful IF George would please identify the smear.

--

George Pinto 3: Yet Eddie ..... his amazing claim that 100% of British
national real estate transactions are legal with the caveat.

JC 3: I do understand that some of us may have been 'liberated' by the
Goviean logic of recent times, BUT Is George Pinto suggesting that it
is AMAZING to state that a transaction is legal unless proved
otherwise? Really! ? That is indeed amazing.

--

George Pinto then takes a swipe at Eddie ...which I believe he is
entitled to. A man is allowed to use all the monkey wrenches at his
disposal in order to extricate himself from the the Mugabesque corner.
George writes drawing attn to Eddie's 'Goa is a toilet' postings or
repostings:

George Pinto 4: May be the shortfall in tourism has to do with people
posting "Goa is a toilet" some months back. Gee, I wonder who posted
that "Goa is a toilet"?

JC 4: No relationship to the perceived official illegality in the land
transaction situation being discussed here ...BUT will say this:
Beautiful Brochures attract a first, second ....100th set of people.
What they actually find there (toilet, corrupt cops, or coniving
lawyers etc) will determine IF they will return. Word of mouth and
blogs take care of that. (Please note the 'hot story' presently doing
rounds about the scam at Thailand's new airport.)

BTW: Especially when finances are tough, 'toilets' are not great spots
to spend vacations unless one eats the pani puri from those 'ghati'
road-side stalls.

--

In another unrelated monkey wrench attack on Eddie by George Pinto,

George Pinto 5: I wonder if Eddie asked himself about the fair and
equitable thing to do as Jose writes above, when he published a hit
piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple a year ago.

JC 5: First of all, let's describe the piece correctly. It was a
"hit-and run" piece. Now ....publishing that per se, cannot be
classified as being 'unfair or inequitable' UNLESS Eddie failed to
post any direct response to that article from the 'Toronto couple'.

BTW: I am glad that George brought this up even by way of monkey
'wrenchedness'. Has the Goan community, even on this list, actually
analysed WHO or WHAT was behind that horrible attack - not only on the
Toronto couple, BUT also on the couple's young daughter?

Has George Pinto asked any questions on the matter? Has he followed it
up? IF NOT, why is he bring it up in the midst of this topic? Is he
trying to ambush Eddie?

If so, it appears that Fixed Nooj and the Goveians have had more
effect on Goans than I hitherto believed they would.

jc

At? amanha
George Pinto
2009-07-29 17:24:03 UTC
Permalink
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear George,
I had resolved not to answer your questions till you have responded
to mine.
Please make whatever resolutions you wish. I have resolved not to answer any questions with someone who is pretending to bury his head in the sand and tries to convince us that 100% of the real estate transactions in Goa were legal by British nationals. It is like arguing with someone who insists that Santa Claus is real. If we do not agree on the core issue, forget it. I have already wasted enough time on an issue that not really concern me. And I apologize if I have wasted your time.
Now you are playing dirty politics by raking up old unrelated
issues to attempt to drive a wedge in the support base I have!
Are you morally bankrupt and totally devoid of any ethical scruples?
I see you are trying to further hang yourself by your own rope. From the smear (Mugabe), to the insult yesterday, to personalizing the issue now, I can see you are devoid of any arguments to extricate yourself. What can we expect tomorrow?
I wonder who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
Post by George Pinto
he published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a
Toronto couple a
year ago.
To my list of questions could you also let us know
1. Who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
2. Who "published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on
a Toronto couple a year ago"?
You are a fine researcher. Do your own homework and don't worry about my credibility. I care two hoots (may be three) what people think of me.

Regards,
George
Elvino Rodriques
2009-07-01 11:32:05 UTC
Permalink
Bravo Jane Gillian,

Your mail is really some explanation to put the arguing heads to rest.

I have been following many of the posts for quite some time, especially the arguments that Ex Goans in UK used to put forward, saying, they have bought houses, property in UK and therefore it is justifiable and should be allowed to purchase lands in Goa by British nationals. UK Goans were equating their purchase of Property in UK on par with land purchases of British National in Goa. So also some British were justifying their purchase of lands in India/Goa by arguing that so many Indians/Goans have bought the lands/houses and any other property in their country - UK, therefore it is right for them to purchase lands in India/Goa. But what these people were not saying is that the British that purchased the lands in India/Goa are infact British Nationals (and Not Indian Nationals) and also the so called Indians/Goans that purchased property in UK are also British Nationals (and no longer Indian Nationals). Once upon a time they have been Goans/Indians but now they given up their nationality and are become UK Subjects, therefore their argument doesn't hold good and same. Ex Indians/Goans who purchased the property/land/houses in UK have done so by their right of being UK Nationals where as the British who bought the lands in Goa are not Indian Nationals yet, therefore they are considered as Foreigners. And those Ex Indian/Goans who bought any property in UK were able to purchase it because they are thecitizens of that country and therefore they are no longer Foreigners to UK but to India yes.

I hope I am clear.


Message: 4
Date: 30 Jun 2009 16:50:33 -0000
From: "jane gillian rodrigues" <janerodrigues at rediffmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Message-ID: <20090630165033.25452.qmail at f5mail-237-216.rediffmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

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Cajetan Alvares
2009-07-01 15:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
I hope I am clear. said Elvino Rodriques.
Reply: I suppose you missed my post, here it is again:
Hi Romeo Ferns,
Easily said than done.
When the East Africans/ Kenyans in particular applied to come to India.
India refused them entry saying that you have a British Passport - Go to
Britain.
Alternatively, give up your BP.
Feeling sorry for the British now is not fair, just because they are white.
--------
Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world,
said jane gillian rodrigues
Hi,
Those days they had the guns, not brains.
Those who came those days were the same kind who come now, 'all brawn no
brains'.
There was a program on UK TV.
Only Builders, Hairdressers, Caterers, Hippies who happened to get money
from their parents etc. bought land in Goa.

Those who actually rules India were and are in UK, even now - calling
Indians with brains but no brawn to work on their computers in UK.

Now, are the Britishers still ruling India?
Of course they are.
India got everything, Nehru had banned import of foreign goods, did India
starve?
Who controls and puts check on Indian Rupee, to see that it does not go
above a certain level?

In India it is the Indian Govt that is all brawn and no brains (all goonds
and bandits elected because they spent lakhs during elections).
I have heard that some of our MLA's are 'metric fail'.
Caj.
Mario Goveia
2009-07-02 15:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:44:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gabriel de Figueiredo <gdefigueiredo at yahoo.com.au>

I was able to purchase two properties in the UK without ever having been a UK national

Mario observes:

Doesn't this depend on the laws of each country?

India has traditionally been ultra paranoid of foreign investment for reasons that escape me, because it prevents badly needed investment money flowing into the country. We are seeing this narrow minded attitude in some of the comments on Goanet.

When foreigners invest in physical assets the country not only benefits from their money but also retains ultimate sovereignty over the assets.

The more Brits and other foreigners who invest in India the better for India. What are they going to do, run away with the property? Don't they have a vested interest in enhancing it, for their own benefit?

I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic and military superpower by gladly using other people's brains and other people's money and every resident, whether citizen or not, is provided with all the considerable constitutional rights, other than the right to vote.
Bosco D'Mello
2009-07-02 21:32:17 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
From: Mario Goveia
Post by Mario Goveia
I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic
and military superpower by gladly using other people's brains
and other people's money and every resident, whether citizen
or not, is provided with all the considerable constitutional
rights, other than the right to vote.
RESPONSE: (A)merican (I)nternational (G)reed comes to mind! Alongwith (G)overnment
(M)otors. Oh....Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Morgan Stanley, CitiCorp, Goldman
Sachs, BankAm........its an extensive list [1]....Mario is right.....other people's
(read present and future tax-payers') money was used to prop-up the legends of
capitalism.....vis-a-vis economic superpower.

Dont be laughing at Mervyn. The Gold 'conspiracy' is alive and well!!

Nevertheless, I do not see the connection with the sentiments of this thread -
British citizens likely to lose their rights to properties purchased by them in Goa.

- B

Ref:
[1] - http://bailout.uslaw.com/?page_id=353
Mario Goveia
2009-07-03 14:40:01 UTC
Permalink
From: Mario Goveia
Post by Mario Goveia
I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic
and military superpower by gladly using other people's brains
and other people's money and every resident, whether citizen
or not, is provided with all the considerable constitutional
rights, other than the right to vote.
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:32:17 -0400
From: "Bosco D'Mello" <bospam at canada.com>

(A)merican (I)nternational (G)reed comes to mind! Alongwith (G)overnment
(M)otors. Oh....Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Morgan Stanley, CitiCorp, Goldman Sachs, BankAm........its an extensive list [1]....Mario is right.....other people's (read present and future tax-payers') money was used to prop-up the legends of capitalism.....vis-a-vis economic superpower.

Mario responds:

Actually, the list is very small when compared with the total American economy, and the government bailouts violated the basic principles of capitalism and should not have been implemented.

However, as anyone who follows current events would know, none of the selective aberrations mentioned by Bosco have anything to do with the overall long term reality that I was referring to. In addition, it is America's proximity that allows neighbors like Canada and Mexico to benefit from the trade that takes place and spend a pittance on their own defense.
Mario Goveia
2009-07-03 14:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mario Goveia
India has traditionally been ultra paranoid of foreign investment for
reasons that escape me, because it prevents badly needed investment money
flowing into the country. We are seeing this narrow minded attitude in > some of the comments on Goanet.
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:31:30 +0530
From: Frederick [FN] Noronha * ???????? ????????

True. Our best foreign direct investors, at one stage, were known as the
East India Company.

Mario responds:

If the East India Company had just come to India to invest and trade it would have been a good thing. However, when they became part of an oppressive colonial dictatorship it became a bad thing. I hope Fred can see the difference.
Post by Mario Goveia
I live in the USA which has perspicaciously become an economic and
military superpower by gladly using other people's brains and other
people's money and every resident, whether citizen or not, is provided
with all the considerable constitutional rights, other than the right to
vote.
Fred wrote:

Where do the Amerindians fit into the reality of this economic and military
superpower? Whose brains and money did they use, and to what end?

Mario responds:

Back in the old days, they were defeated and oppressed by the growing tide of European settlers who were spreading out across north America. They resisted when they could, but were generally unable to prevail or compete with the Europeans.

Today, they have the same opportunities as every other American. In some cases they live in poverty and are heavily subsidized by the government. In other cases they live in semi-autonomous areas, some of which have oil fields and tourist resorts and casinos that make a lot of money for those particular tribes.
SANTANO VAZ
2009-07-05 13:47:59 UTC
Permalink
Reply to: British citizens buying property in Goa (Gabriel de Figueiredo)

We goans don?t have problem when our fellow goan brothers and sisters buy properties or settled in other countries, as their government encourages migration and hence their government are obliged to make law as per these regulations and they will do that as they have good infrastructure and vast land and very less population.

Mr. Gabriel might not been in Goa recently or might not aware of Goa?s Demography, its true that lots of Goans by the influence of Portuguese and Africa has managed to find a new place to settled and are able to buy properties but some has to sell their ancestral properties in Goa for quick and more money to well known Goan industrialist and non- goans to obtain a healthy bond deposits enough to settle in western world.

Selling Goan properties to such people was first initiated by these people who had a craze of going out of India. At this time goa was just liberated and Goan AMM ADMIN at that time was not able to afford to buy these properties and now when our generation wants to buy properties to our next generation after all hard work of Gulf and ships still we cannot effort the rates which are fixed by Land mafias.

Let me come to the point: Sancoale is the village in limelight ever since the ZACL or Birla came in Goa, a mega project called M-TECH is passed by Village Sarpanch without consulting the village member or even knowledge of some elected Panchayat members, thanks to the elected ministers and MLA?s. When the village come to know about this project it was opposed and has put on hold but the people who got or may get their benefits on this projects are still in favor and wants to get the clearance by force.

Being a member of this village I was not aware of any such project until one of my colleague a UK national who never visited Goa or even India in his life confirms me that he has bought an apartment in this so called M-TECH Beach village and this was happened due to good property sellers or broker are putting up their stalls in UK and other western countries to sell Goa in peaces.

Why Brits coming to Goa: this is what my UK colleagues told me. The cost of property and apartments is high in UK, in past few years very few people could afford and in next few years specially this generation who are in their twenties who still studies or worked as salaried they may not able to buy their own properties even if they work for 40 years from now.

My friend has booked this apartment with this broker?s office in UK just for ? 37,000 and the same might have cost him ? 320,000 in UK and this was confirmed by my other colleague who has bought a property in Spain with similar kind of project and these projects are introduced by their governments, they started their first project in Thailand, Cyprus, Spain and now they are in Goa not sure if they have any places in India, this is to help their average citizen to leave affordably, there can be other factors also involved which Goa will be in worlds map as next destination after Pathaya or phuket.

The local community of Goa is opposing all these projects which are now in heart of every single village, but Govt. still wants to bring such projects and wants to support this particular project M-TECH, no doubt some ministers and their family might got their UK citizenship or just waiting to get a business venture with counterpart.

Effects to AMM ADMIN: no doubt all these mega projects will have all facilities and so also it will required lot of energy, water, electricity etc. a village like Sancoale and Benaulim enjoy good traditional sea food which is at present within the limits of amm admi this will not remain the same, vegetable and other food products will be out of reach of amm admi, although Goa is over crowded with currant situation, thanks to govt. employment policies and their vote banks, there will be more non goans will come to goa to work with Europeans without passport or visa or green card and out Politian will be more happy to issue them a ration card within minutes where it takes 3 days to get a birth certificate for a goan and on other side we goans will be running and queuing after agents with money and ministers to get a foreign visa or green card.



there are so many ways NRI goans can help goan comunity but not by selling goa to outsiders, I am sure there are many NRI's who are now experts on garbage bisposals and recycles this will be a best coause to come back to your home land and assist our goverment to solve this great mistry of garbage in goa.



dev borem korum.

Santano.

_________________________________________________________________
Live Search extreme As India feels the heat of poll season, get all the info you need on the MSN News Aggregator
http://news.in.msn.com/National/indiaelections2009/aggregator/default.aspx
Mario Goveia
2009-07-06 14:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Francis
All things being equal, foreigners are better neighbors - if they are
not riff-raff, they have been brought up to respect the law, they will
beautify their homes and the houses in the neighborhood will
ultimately fetch better prices because of this....
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:40:44 +0530
From: Frederick Noronha <fredericknoronha at gmail.com>

By "foreigners" do you mean a Sri Lankan Tamil in Toronto is a better
neighbour? Or a Dalit from Mayawati's UP is a better neighbour in Wimbledon?

Or, do you just mean "rich Whites" are better neighbours?

Is this another way of saying we Goans are as much (if not more)
class-biased and racist as they come... even when we are ourselves
brown, have mostly known poverty in our (or our parents) lifetimes, and
have live in the countries of the South in most cases (Asia including
Goa or Bombay or Karachi, Africa even if under a colonial dispensation,
the Gulf and so on....)

Mario asks:

Fred,

Doesn't it depend on the individual Sri Lankan Tamil or the Dalit Bhayya? In some cases, if they are educated and well-to-do professionals they may make as good neighbors as anyone else. However, their stereotypes almost certainly will not and you may end up with a neighborhoos redolent with the wafting aromas of sambhar and cow cakes:-)).

Also, is it "racist" to observe that "rich White" foreigners make better neighbors than poor brown desis as far as the neighborhood is concerned?

Or, is this just a fact.
Mario Goveia
2009-07-06 14:32:21 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:47:59 +0000
From: SANTANO VAZ <santanovaz at hotmail.com>

there are so many ways NRI goans can help goan comunity but not by selling goa to outsiders, I am sure there are many NRI's who are now experts on garbage bisposals and recycles this will be a best coause to come back to your home land and assist our goverment to solve this great mistry of garbage in goa.

Mario observes:

Why just NRI's? Do you think they are NRI's because their priority is Goa?

Selling Goa to any western foreign outsiders would help in addressing the garbage problem in Goa because a) they don't have a garbage problem in the countries they come from and b) they have the money to enhance the properties they buy.

The science of waste management is well developed in the west, and believe me, it is no mystery, just the will to make it a priority.

There is no reason for a country like India, with more brainpower than any other country except perhaps China, to also be one of the filthiest countries on the planet, or to have a xenophobic attitude towards "outsiders" and "foreigners" and the investment they bring. No one invests in a place with the intention of making it worse.
Ashley D'silva
2009-07-07 04:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Hello Santano,

What you sat makes sense.
Why ? ; If the infrastructure is not ready or created in advanced ; namely
Water , electricity, roads, sewer lines, telephone lines, gas lines ,garbage
disposal system etc there is going to be helluva a problem and all living
there will be inconvenienced terribly to the point of severe agitations
leading to sickness in the form of high blood pressure , diabetes, heart
problems - in short life will be too stressed for the people for someone
else's comfort. Its happening in Thane City, Navi Mumbai, Mumbai suburbs
and other places. Whose making whack are the builders who laugh all the way
to the banks.

So Think Deeply all and consider the +Ves & -Ves.
Ashley


-----Original Message-----
From: SANTANO VAZ


Reply to: British citizens buying property in Goa (Gabriel de Figueiredo)

We goans don't have problem when our fellow goan brothers and sisters buy
properties or settled in other countries, as their government encourages
migration and hence their government are obliged to make law as per these
regulations and they will do that as they have good infrastructure and vast
land and very less population.
George Pinto
2009-07-07 13:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Fernandes
The Government has acted on the concerns of British nationals about the
purchase of property in Goa.
We have made clear to the state authorities in Goa that we would be
extremely concerned if there were to be any question of property acquired
legally by British nationals being expropriated through the retrospective
application of any new legislation.
Hi Eddie

Again you have written "property acquired legally by British nationals" as if the LEGAL part is a given. You did not address my prior questions regarding these transactions:
1. Were any bribes paid in these transactions which make it ILLEGAL.
2. Were residency requirements met or circumvented which is ILLEGAL.
3. Were foreign currency regulations followed or laws violated which makes it ILLEGAL.
4. Were shell companies set up in violation of local laws which makes it ILLEGAL.

So how many of these supposedly "legal" transactions were LEGAL? I fail to see why you are blanket defending these transactions as Goan real estate agents in connivance with British nations have a reputation of violating real-estate laws in Goa. In fact some of them sell ONLY to British nationals. I know of one rich Goan couple from Bombay who were refused a purchase in Goa. Goans treated as second-class in Goa!!

So unless you are concerned about a personal transaction or some real-estate advertiser on GOAN VOICE-UK is threatening to withold advertising revenue if you do not support them, I fail to see why you support these transactions as if ALL were legal. Knowing how things operate in Goa I would be amazed if 100% of these transactions are "legal".

Regards,
George
George Pinto
2009-07-18 21:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Eddie, sorry for my late response. I agree with you that IF a legal transaction occurred and the Goa or India govt. is trying to reverse it, I would be outraged. But I question HOW MANY of these real estate transactions by British nationals in Goa were legal.

Given the illegal cesspool of Goan real estate "development", where illegal permits are obtained, land usurped, illegal hill-cutting, illegal constructions, bribes paid at various levels, property intentionally not sold to local Goans but only to foreigners and non-Goans, it is difficult for me to believe than more than a handful (and I am being generous here) of these British national transactions were legal.

Also difficult for me to believe the British nationals were innocent parties to these transactions and were unaware of the illegalities listed in the paragraph above - they are not THAT naive. Just call up some of the builders/sellers/agents in the UK of these Goan properties and they will immediately inform you how to circumvent the law. I do not need to inform you that Goa has quite a few unscrupulous real-estate lawyers and real-estate agents in cahoots with and under the patronage of Goan politicians.

How many of these builders/sellers/agents who advertise on Goan websites and who come to London at the Tourism mart, comply with the law?

Regards,
George
George Pinto
2009-07-20 06:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Fernandes
** Take care - your bias is showing!
Dear Eddie

My bias in FAVOR of law and order is showing. Guilty as charged. See article below from today's NAVHIND TIMES about ILLEGAL land purchases by foreign nationals, including BRITISH nationals.

TWO QUOTES:
"Over 450 illegal land deals involving British, Russians, Germans, etc have been unearthed."

"Dozens of United Kingdom nationals, who constitute a chunk of those who have been booked for violation of FEMA,"

Regards,
George

http://www.navhindtimes.in/news/goa-news/938-over-450-illegal-land-deals-by-foreigners

PANAJI:
Ever since it was established that a large number of foreigners of different nationalities had unauthorizedly purchased huge plots of land in the state, the government agencies have begun investigations into the land deals. Over 450 illegal land deals involving British, Russians, Germans, etc have been unearthed.

Most of the land that has been bought by foreign nationals is along the
state?s coastline and prime locations. It has been revealed that the
foreigners have ?illegally? bought over 12 lakh square metres of land in the state.

The Enforcement Department, which looks after cases of violation of Foreign
Exchange Management Act, has issued show-cause notices to a large number of
companies owned by foreigners asking their officials to explain why action
should not be taken for violating the state laws.

Dozens of United Kingdom nationals, who constitute a chunk of those who have been booked for violation of FEMA, recently raked up the issue and
petitioned their Prime Minister, Mr Gordon Brown claiming harassment by Goan officials in registering the land deals.

Though it was reported that Mr Brown had intervened in the matter and had
written to Indian officials, the state officials said that they have not yet received any correspondence from the British Prime Minister or any of the central agencies.

?There has not been any sort of officials communication from any quarter so
far, they said. The senior officials in the state administration denied the claim made by the UK nationals that they were being harassed and said that these people (against whom action has been initiated) had purchased the land in total violation of the country?s laws that govern purchase of land by foreigners.

?How can we register any deal that has been made against the law of the
land,? said a senior government official even as he denied that any person
was ever harassed while seeking registration of a legal deal. The state
government officials, however, admitted that it has come to notice that the
purchases could have been done in connivance with some unscrupulous
elements.

The officials also said that many foreigners were ?lured? into making
purchases by some locals, including a few lawyers and other officials,
adding that some foreigners had given written complaints that they were
misled at every step of land deals by ?everybody? involved in the deals and
that they were ignorant of the law.

The officials, however, said that they would proceed with the cases in
accordance with the provisions of law and take appropriate action as laid
down in law. They also said that Enforcement Department was already looking
into the matter and action would follow soon.
Cajetan Alvares
2009-07-20 12:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Why can't the British Citizens buy land in Goa?
Indians as Commonewalth Citizens can do so in UK!
Secondly, are the people from the rest of India any previlaged to buy land
in Goa?
But they are, and paying more for it.

How come this happens? - Simple.
One Govt. employess are transfered to Goa, Goans are transfered elsewhere in
India too.

One Indian is transfered to Goa, his dad (retired Govt. employee who made
money by taking bribes) followed him.
His dad with his illgotten money, opens a restaurant in Panjim (I have eaten
there).
They intend buying land and building a house in Goa, his dad said his other
sons will come as well.
For now the son his wife and his dad and his wife are in Goa, working and
doing business.

All this in return for one transfer.
How many Goans have done this in other parts of India?
Caj.
George Pinto
2009-07-21 00:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Eddie

I see you are trying to wiggle out of the core issue about the claimed legality of real estate transactions by British nationals (others nationals are also involved but the subject line focused on British). I don't recall when or who posted an email about a petition that British nationals were asking Gordon Brown to intervene. You clearly supported that petition.

My claim has been and continues to be, I doubt more than a handful of real estate transactions by these British nationals were legal given the illegal cesspool of real estate transactions in Goa, and that British nationals could not be THAT naive when they entered these into transactions as they now claim to be innocent victims.

Again (and you seem to have difficulty here), I support legal transactions. You support it too, the difference being I don't think too many of these transactions were legal and the NAVHIND TIMES article clear backs me up. So before you try and get me to answer your diversionary questions why don't you tell us how many of the transactions you believe are legal and on what basis considering two factors: the state of illegal real estate transactions in Goa and the NAVHIND article.

Regards,
George
George Pinto
2009-07-27 21:02:58 UTC
Permalink
Eddie would like to waste my time with a non-answer to my question below and expect me to respond. See his response below. Anyone who believes that "100% [of real estate transactions by British nationals in Goa] are legal taking all factors into account, till they are proved to be illegal" is welcome to do so. Notice the cute lawyerly language of "are legal taking all factors into account, till they are proved to be illegal". The Govt has already identified 450+ cases they are investigating, some of which involve British nationals. In the face of what is known of the illegal cesspool of real estate transactions in Goa, Eddie wants me to believe Santa Claus is real for British nationals. More power to you Eddie.

And he forwards a HERALD article which has this amazing line "Recently, the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) did a series of shows
on the issue, talking to a wide range of foreigners who bought houses,
apartments or started small restaurants in Goa after going through a
perfectly legal process, abiding by all the requirements of the Foreign
Exchange Management Act (FEMA) and the Reserve Bank of India (RBI)." So we are expected to believe BBC interviews with people who bought the properties and accept their claim that the transaction is legal?! What are they expected to say "I paid a bribe, I violated FEMA and other regulations and I hope the govt. investigates me". Gimme me a break. Did BBC interview govt. officials for their side of the story? Not that I would give any credence to them either given what we know about land use, "regularization" in Goa, etc.

I have nothing further to add, readers can make my their own mind.

Regards,
George
Post by Eddie Fernandes
From: George Pinto on 21 July
Post by George Pinto
So before you try and get me to answer your diversionary questions why
don't you tell us how many of the transactions you believe are legal
and on what basis considering two factors: the state of illegal real
estate transactions in Goa and the NAVHIND article.
Dear George,
I have already made it clear that 100% are legal taking all factors into
account, till they are proved to be illegal. Read the text of the petition
carefully and you will wish to support it too!

Now if you can answer the questions, please, sir!

Thanks

Eddie
George Pinto
2009-07-28 03:32:37 UTC
Permalink
--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Eddie Fernandes" <eddie at fernandes.u-net.com>
Unless there is a Mugabe sitting in judgment.? Are you?
I did not realize I had won the argument against a learned gentleman like Eddie, but when the smears start, I realize the opponent has turned in the towel. Nothing further to add.

Regards,
George
George Pinto
2009-07-29 03:34:17 UTC
Permalink
I do apologise to him for assuming that he is a man of his word.
My, my, my. Eddie has gone from smear (Mugabe) to insult, clearly demonstrating I won this debate. I humbly stand victorious and accept his apology for my word or any word for that matter.
1.?In all of the 450+ cases the subregistrars had issued the sale deeds
to the foreigners.?Legalities should have questioned before doing so.?
Legal nonsense. Many transactions, including say filing an income-tax return, do not require the agency to rule on the legality of the transaction at the time of submission. If fraud is later uncovered, it can be investigated, within the statute of limitations.
To enquire now about the circumstances of purchase is taking
retrospective action.
If the transaction is legal, no govt. or agency should intimidate legal parties. No govt. or agency should retrospectively change the law, or reverse a LEGAL transaction. I have been saying as much all along, falling on Eddie's deaf years. The key word is LEGAL. I do not believe 100% of real estate transactions involving British nationals are legal given what we know of the legal cesspool of real estate transactions in Goa.
And don't forget that our George claims to have a bias in FAVOR of law
and order!
Yes, British nationals should not be exempt from complying with the law. If they have complied, hurrah for them.

Regards,
George
George Pinto
2009-07-29 03:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
1: If there are properties which have been LEGALLY purchased under the
prevailing (at the time of purchase) Indian Law by anybody (British
citizens included), the said properties have been purchased legally.
I agree. The key word is LEGALLY.
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
2: It is illegal / unconstitutional / unethical (as per the
Indian Constitution as it stands now) to pass laws in 2009 and
make them retrospectively applicable for properties purchased antes
Presidential Assent of the said law.
I agree.
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
3: Unless ....the President in question is Mugabe.
So Eddie attributes something to me that I have not written, implying I would support confiscation of properties. I have written NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, on confiscation of properties by the Goa govt. (a la Mugabe). Yet Eddie who wants to distract from his amazing claim that 100% of British national real estate transactions are legal with the caveat as far as he knows, writes this smear and Jose repeats it. This is Goan logic at work on the internet. You guys are the besht.
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
I personally believe that the issue of the short-fall of
the UK tourists to Goa is irrelevant to the basic legality of what is
being proposed with regard to the said properties.
May be the shortfall in tourism has to do with people posting "Goa is a toilet" some months back. Gee, I wonder who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
Post by colaco1 at gmail.com (J. Colaco )
Is it the reasonable, fair and equitable thing to do? Sure ...this
principle is not applicable to the Mugabes of this world.
I wonder if Eddie asked himself about the fair and equitable thing to do as Jose writes above, when he published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a Toronto couple a year ago. Oh, I'm sorry, fair and equitable, due process, etc. applies to everyone else.

Regards,
George
George Pinto
2009-07-29 17:24:03 UTC
Permalink
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear George,
I had resolved not to answer your questions till you have responded
to mine.
Please make whatever resolutions you wish. I have resolved not to answer any questions with someone who is pretending to bury his head in the sand and tries to convince us that 100% of the real estate transactions in Goa were legal by British nationals. It is like arguing with someone who insists that Santa Claus is real. If we do not agree on the core issue, forget it. I have already wasted enough time on an issue that not really concern me. And I apologize if I have wasted your time.
Now you are playing dirty politics by raking up old unrelated
issues to attempt to drive a wedge in the support base I have!
Are you morally bankrupt and totally devoid of any ethical scruples?
I see you are trying to further hang yourself by your own rope. From the smear (Mugabe), to the insult yesterday, to personalizing the issue now, I can see you are devoid of any arguments to extricate yourself. What can we expect tomorrow?
I wonder who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
Post by George Pinto
he published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on a
Toronto couple a
year ago.
To my list of questions could you also let us know
1. Who posted that "Goa is a toilet"?
2. Who "published a hit piece by a so-called journalist on
a Toronto couple a year ago"?
You are a fine researcher. Do your own homework and don't worry about my credibility. I care two hoots (may be three) what people think of me.

Regards,
George
Elvino Rodriques
2009-07-01 11:32:05 UTC
Permalink
Bravo Jane Gillian,

Your mail is really some explanation to put the arguing heads to rest.

I have been following many of the posts for quite some time, especially the arguments that Ex Goans in UK used to put forward, saying, they have bought houses, property in UK and therefore it is justifiable and should be allowed to purchase lands in Goa by British nationals. UK Goans were equating their purchase of Property in UK on par with land purchases of British National in Goa. So also some British were justifying their purchase of lands in India/Goa by arguing that so many Indians/Goans have bought the lands/houses and any other property in their country - UK, therefore it is right for them to purchase lands in India/Goa. But what these people were not saying is that the British that purchased the lands in India/Goa are infact British Nationals (and Not Indian Nationals) and also the so called Indians/Goans that purchased property in UK are also British Nationals (and no longer Indian Nationals). Once upon a time they have been Goans/Indians but now they given up their nationality and are become UK Subjects, therefore their argument doesn't hold good and same. Ex Indians/Goans who purchased the property/land/houses in UK have done so by their right of being UK Nationals where as the British who bought the lands in Goa are not Indian Nationals yet, therefore they are considered as Foreigners. And those Ex Indian/Goans who bought any property in UK were able to purchase it because they are thecitizens of that country and therefore they are no longer Foreigners to UK but to India yes.

I hope I am clear.


Message: 4
Date: 30 Jun 2009 16:50:33 -0000
From: "jane gillian rodrigues" <janerodrigues at rediffmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] British citizens buying property in Goa
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Message-ID: <20090630165033.25452.qmail at f5mail-237-216.rediffmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hi Goankars,anamaria26 at dataone.in

My reply to e-mail below:-(1)When buying in the Company name, should company be of foreign origin or have an Indian partner or wholly owned by Indians?

(2)The female friend, may have been of Indian origin, but now is a British citizen, so under what laws of the state of Goa, prevalent at the time of purchase, was this British woman allowed to buy property in Goa?

(3)The period of "lease" prevalent at the time of purchase by British nationals, was for how many years?

(4)What is meant by the words"Those Goans/Indians having foreign passports". I presumed, that once you become a citizen of a foreign country, you can no more be called Indian or Goan, you are henceforth known as Britisher or American, not Goan or Indian.

(5)The words "unscruplous lawyers/builders who are taking people
for a ride". Really????? Britishers are now "DONKEYS"????

(6)The words "titles are not clear....buyers also are gulliable and
are not verifying the papers". Really???? British Buyers are not verifying papers and are gullible???

Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world?

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Cajetan Alvares
2009-07-01 15:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
I hope I am clear. said Elvino Rodriques.
Reply: I suppose you missed my post, here it is again:
Hi Romeo Ferns,
Easily said than done.
When the East Africans/ Kenyans in particular applied to come to India.
India refused them entry saying that you have a British Passport - Go to
Britain.
Alternatively, give up your BP.
Feeling sorry for the British now is not fair, just because they are white.
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Could someone on Goanet please explain, how the British ruled the world,
said jane gillian rodrigues
Hi,
Those days they had the guns, not brains.
Those who came those days were the same kind who come now, 'all brawn no
brains'.
There was a program on UK TV.
Only Builders, Hairdressers, Caterers, Hippies who happened to get money
from their parents etc. bought land in Goa.

Those who actually rules India were and are in UK, even now - calling
Indians with brains but no brawn to work on their computers in UK.

Now, are the Britishers still ruling India?
Of course they are.
India got everything, Nehru had banned import of foreign goods, did India
starve?
Who controls and puts check on Indian Rupee, to see that it does not go
above a certain level?

In India it is the Indian Govt that is all brawn and no brains (all goonds
and bandits elected because they spent lakhs during elections).
I have heard that some of our MLA's are 'metric fail'.
Caj.

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