Discussion:
' father of Goan Democracy'.
(too old to reply)
Siyona G Gaunkar
2014-01-08 22:25:44 UTC
Permalink
I am working on avery old ?research paper
form Goa archive? that says that soon
after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by
the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana. The origin of this dispute
goes back to 1920?s when this pro-Portuguese settlers excavated 12th century Velliapura Kadamba
Jayakeshi I Southern Capital site ,present day
Velim the ?the property of the Roque Santana family and converted
it into a paddy field in order to wipe the glorious history. ?In this paper it is noted that these group
as ?angels in disguise?.
?
in addition, Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within , which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing."We have jealousy towards each
other" he said.
?
As a part of my research project I ?met many in Velim who are just jealous?of this whole issue and i did notice many
were jealous of late Roque Santana so much so they tried to change topics or attempted
to tell their stories.

Siyona.
?
COMMENT:
Jose Colaco wrote:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
____________________________
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 05:19:41
-0400
From: Jose Colaco
<colaco1 at gmail.com>
To: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>,????"Goa's premiere mailing list,
????estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
: Re: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other ? Goa??Freedom????Fighters
Siyona Gaunkar wrote:
1: On the eve of 17th June 1952
Roque Santana was gravely injured in Chandor during an attack on one of Chandor's
Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan elements who
leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
2: The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him
COMMENT:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
Jc
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:25:47
-0700 (PDT)
From: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>
To:
"goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other - Goa Freedom??Fighters
Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within the association, which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
?Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing. We have jealousy towards each
other" he said. For that Goa CM Mr. Parrikar responded that Goa need second freedom struggle to??liberation the negative mentality
towards the State. Governor B V Wanchoo was present.
?
http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=9325&boxid=161424890&uid=&dat=6/19/2013
?
On the eve of 17thJune 1952Roque
Santana was gravely injured in Chandor
During an attack on one of
Chandor's Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan
elements who leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him and warning the Colonial rule
of dare consequences if the youth did not survive. At this point the Portuguese
police shifted Roque Santana from Margao Hospicio to Ribandar Military hospital
for better treatment. After this the Portuguese were reluctant to use deadly
force
This incident is the main reason
why Prime Minister Nehru planned to invaded Goa despite US objection.
As a part of my research project I
have met many freedom fighers??and
i did notice this jealousy each back stabbing the other??and many were jealous of late Roque
Santana so much so they tried to change topics.
?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan
2014 09:38:12 -0500
From:
Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com>
To:
"Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
???
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject:
Re: [Goanet] Father of Goan democracy
Message-ID:
<18BEEE02-C518-438A-90B9-6B24BF660BA1 at gmail.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain;??? charset=us-ascii

Like Eugene, I too found the
flurry of GoaNet posts, with nearly identical script, quite surprising.? I
only wonder IF the writer/writers believes(s) that these posts help or hurt the
legacy of Roque Santana Fernandes.

The
following from the post by a Veena Sa caught my attention
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2014-January/237178.html

*RS
was 'mortally injured' in 1955
*free
'Salcete island'
*RS
suffered a cardiac arrest at 'their palatial estate' in New York City in 2007
*Canarase,
a 'red Indian' village?
(The
'worrier' I took as a typo and read it as 'warrior')

I am a
native of Velim and, as a student, I knew both Dr. Sequeira and Roque Santana.
I, often had the opportunity to chat with RS. It was never about politics. I
found him to be an affable person who often stopped and chatted about How I was
getting on with my studies. I still to this day can only have the best of
things to say about Dr. Sequeira.

If one
has to truly honour RS, then one may have to do a better job than these set of
badly scripted posts. It might need an independent review of his life and struggles
conducted with the help of all the available documents.?

I
personally liked RS as a fellow Velcar and as a person (and I am sure he got
that impression from our informal chats usually by the Church / Bus stand)?

but I
do have the following beliefs: (1): the State has the obligation to provide
security to its citizens (2) : I am unable to make a serious judgement on any
issue ( not that my judgement matters to anybody else ) without studying all
the facts of the case.

It
would also be useful to learn more about the Award given to Dr. Jack de
Sequeira, I assume posthumously. Who else was short listed? What were the
criteria? Who decided? Who received it? How does it fall under the
classification of 'prestigious'?

ps: it
is my personal belief that the flurry of posts about the late RS, written in
indifferent English, could actually hurt the legacy of RS, who IMHO represented
the interests of the people of Velim to the best of his ability.

jc
Circa New York City
Jose Colaco
2014-01-09 15:19:59 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old research paper form Goa archive that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself. I have never voted for Roque Santana. Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
Bernado Colaco
2014-01-12 11:06:34 UTC
Permalink
Wasn't Roque Santana part of Azad Gomantak Dal, world's first terror group?

BC



On Thursday, 9 January 2014, 23:20, Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old? research paper form Goa archive? that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself.? I have never voted for Roque Santana.? Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence? of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
Bernado Colaco
2014-01-12 11:06:34 UTC
Permalink
Wasn't Roque Santana part of Azad Gomantak Dal, world's first terror group?

BC



On Thursday, 9 January 2014, 23:20, Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old? research paper form Goa archive? that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself.? I have never voted for Roque Santana.? Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence? of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
Bernado Colaco
2014-01-12 11:06:34 UTC
Permalink
Wasn't Roque Santana part of Azad Gomantak Dal, world's first terror group?

BC



On Thursday, 9 January 2014, 23:20, Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old? research paper form Goa archive? that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself.? I have never voted for Roque Santana.? Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence? of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
Bernado Colaco
2014-01-12 11:06:34 UTC
Permalink
Wasn't Roque Santana part of Azad Gomantak Dal, world's first terror group?

BC



On Thursday, 9 January 2014, 23:20, Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old? research paper form Goa archive? that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself.? I have never voted for Roque Santana.? Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence? of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
Bernado Colaco
2014-01-12 11:06:34 UTC
Permalink
Wasn't Roque Santana part of Azad Gomantak Dal, world's first terror group?

BC



On Thursday, 9 January 2014, 23:20, Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old? research paper form Goa archive? that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself.? I have never voted for Roque Santana.? Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence? of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.

Siyona G Gaunkar
2014-01-08 22:25:44 UTC
Permalink
I am working on avery old ?research paper
form Goa archive? that says that soon
after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by
the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana. The origin of this dispute
goes back to 1920?s when this pro-Portuguese settlers excavated 12th century Velliapura Kadamba
Jayakeshi I Southern Capital site ,present day
Velim the ?the property of the Roque Santana family and converted
it into a paddy field in order to wipe the glorious history. ?In this paper it is noted that these group
as ?angels in disguise?.
?
in addition, Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within , which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing."We have jealousy towards each
other" he said.
?
As a part of my research project I ?met many in Velim who are just jealous?of this whole issue and i did notice many
were jealous of late Roque Santana so much so they tried to change topics or attempted
to tell their stories.

Siyona.
?
COMMENT:
Jose Colaco wrote:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
____________________________
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 05:19:41
-0400
From: Jose Colaco
<colaco1 at gmail.com>
To: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>,????"Goa's premiere mailing list,
????estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
: Re: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other ? Goa??Freedom????Fighters
Siyona Gaunkar wrote:
1: On the eve of 17th June 1952
Roque Santana was gravely injured in Chandor during an attack on one of Chandor's
Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan elements who
leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
2: The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him
COMMENT:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
Jc
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:25:47
-0700 (PDT)
From: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>
To:
"goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other - Goa Freedom??Fighters
Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within the association, which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
?Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing. We have jealousy towards each
other" he said. For that Goa CM Mr. Parrikar responded that Goa need second freedom struggle to??liberation the negative mentality
towards the State. Governor B V Wanchoo was present.
?
http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=9325&boxid=161424890&uid=&dat=6/19/2013
?
On the eve of 17thJune 1952Roque
Santana was gravely injured in Chandor
During an attack on one of
Chandor's Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan
elements who leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him and warning the Colonial rule
of dare consequences if the youth did not survive. At this point the Portuguese
police shifted Roque Santana from Margao Hospicio to Ribandar Military hospital
for better treatment. After this the Portuguese were reluctant to use deadly
force
This incident is the main reason
why Prime Minister Nehru planned to invaded Goa despite US objection.
As a part of my research project I
have met many freedom fighers??and
i did notice this jealousy each back stabbing the other??and many were jealous of late Roque
Santana so much so they tried to change topics.
?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan
2014 09:38:12 -0500
From:
Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com>
To:
"Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
???
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject:
Re: [Goanet] Father of Goan democracy
Message-ID:
<18BEEE02-C518-438A-90B9-6B24BF660BA1 at gmail.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain;??? charset=us-ascii

Like Eugene, I too found the
flurry of GoaNet posts, with nearly identical script, quite surprising.? I
only wonder IF the writer/writers believes(s) that these posts help or hurt the
legacy of Roque Santana Fernandes.

The
following from the post by a Veena Sa caught my attention
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2014-January/237178.html

*RS
was 'mortally injured' in 1955
*free
'Salcete island'
*RS
suffered a cardiac arrest at 'their palatial estate' in New York City in 2007
*Canarase,
a 'red Indian' village?
(The
'worrier' I took as a typo and read it as 'warrior')

I am a
native of Velim and, as a student, I knew both Dr. Sequeira and Roque Santana.
I, often had the opportunity to chat with RS. It was never about politics. I
found him to be an affable person who often stopped and chatted about How I was
getting on with my studies. I still to this day can only have the best of
things to say about Dr. Sequeira.

If one
has to truly honour RS, then one may have to do a better job than these set of
badly scripted posts. It might need an independent review of his life and struggles
conducted with the help of all the available documents.?

I
personally liked RS as a fellow Velcar and as a person (and I am sure he got
that impression from our informal chats usually by the Church / Bus stand)?

but I
do have the following beliefs: (1): the State has the obligation to provide
security to its citizens (2) : I am unable to make a serious judgement on any
issue ( not that my judgement matters to anybody else ) without studying all
the facts of the case.

It
would also be useful to learn more about the Award given to Dr. Jack de
Sequeira, I assume posthumously. Who else was short listed? What were the
criteria? Who decided? Who received it? How does it fall under the
classification of 'prestigious'?

ps: it
is my personal belief that the flurry of posts about the late RS, written in
indifferent English, could actually hurt the legacy of RS, who IMHO represented
the interests of the people of Velim to the best of his ability.

jc
Circa New York City
Jose Colaco
2014-01-09 15:19:59 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old research paper form Goa archive that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself. I have never voted for Roque Santana. Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
Siyona G Gaunkar
2014-01-08 22:25:44 UTC
Permalink
I am working on avery old ?research paper
form Goa archive? that says that soon
after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by
the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana. The origin of this dispute
goes back to 1920?s when this pro-Portuguese settlers excavated 12th century Velliapura Kadamba
Jayakeshi I Southern Capital site ,present day
Velim the ?the property of the Roque Santana family and converted
it into a paddy field in order to wipe the glorious history. ?In this paper it is noted that these group
as ?angels in disguise?.
?
in addition, Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within , which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing."We have jealousy towards each
other" he said.
?
As a part of my research project I ?met many in Velim who are just jealous?of this whole issue and i did notice many
were jealous of late Roque Santana so much so they tried to change topics or attempted
to tell their stories.

Siyona.
?
COMMENT:
Jose Colaco wrote:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
____________________________
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 05:19:41
-0400
From: Jose Colaco
<colaco1 at gmail.com>
To: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>,????"Goa's premiere mailing list,
????estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
: Re: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other ? Goa??Freedom????Fighters
Siyona Gaunkar wrote:
1: On the eve of 17th June 1952
Roque Santana was gravely injured in Chandor during an attack on one of Chandor's
Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan elements who
leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
2: The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him
COMMENT:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
Jc
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:25:47
-0700 (PDT)
From: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>
To:
"goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other - Goa Freedom??Fighters
Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within the association, which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
?Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing. We have jealousy towards each
other" he said. For that Goa CM Mr. Parrikar responded that Goa need second freedom struggle to??liberation the negative mentality
towards the State. Governor B V Wanchoo was present.
?
http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=9325&boxid=161424890&uid=&dat=6/19/2013
?
On the eve of 17thJune 1952Roque
Santana was gravely injured in Chandor
During an attack on one of
Chandor's Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan
elements who leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him and warning the Colonial rule
of dare consequences if the youth did not survive. At this point the Portuguese
police shifted Roque Santana from Margao Hospicio to Ribandar Military hospital
for better treatment. After this the Portuguese were reluctant to use deadly
force
This incident is the main reason
why Prime Minister Nehru planned to invaded Goa despite US objection.
As a part of my research project I
have met many freedom fighers??and
i did notice this jealousy each back stabbing the other??and many were jealous of late Roque
Santana so much so they tried to change topics.
?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan
2014 09:38:12 -0500
From:
Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com>
To:
"Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
???
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject:
Re: [Goanet] Father of Goan democracy
Message-ID:
<18BEEE02-C518-438A-90B9-6B24BF660BA1 at gmail.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain;??? charset=us-ascii

Like Eugene, I too found the
flurry of GoaNet posts, with nearly identical script, quite surprising.? I
only wonder IF the writer/writers believes(s) that these posts help or hurt the
legacy of Roque Santana Fernandes.

The
following from the post by a Veena Sa caught my attention
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2014-January/237178.html

*RS
was 'mortally injured' in 1955
*free
'Salcete island'
*RS
suffered a cardiac arrest at 'their palatial estate' in New York City in 2007
*Canarase,
a 'red Indian' village?
(The
'worrier' I took as a typo and read it as 'warrior')

I am a
native of Velim and, as a student, I knew both Dr. Sequeira and Roque Santana.
I, often had the opportunity to chat with RS. It was never about politics. I
found him to be an affable person who often stopped and chatted about How I was
getting on with my studies. I still to this day can only have the best of
things to say about Dr. Sequeira.

If one
has to truly honour RS, then one may have to do a better job than these set of
badly scripted posts. It might need an independent review of his life and struggles
conducted with the help of all the available documents.?

I
personally liked RS as a fellow Velcar and as a person (and I am sure he got
that impression from our informal chats usually by the Church / Bus stand)?

but I
do have the following beliefs: (1): the State has the obligation to provide
security to its citizens (2) : I am unable to make a serious judgement on any
issue ( not that my judgement matters to anybody else ) without studying all
the facts of the case.

It
would also be useful to learn more about the Award given to Dr. Jack de
Sequeira, I assume posthumously. Who else was short listed? What were the
criteria? Who decided? Who received it? How does it fall under the
classification of 'prestigious'?

ps: it
is my personal belief that the flurry of posts about the late RS, written in
indifferent English, could actually hurt the legacy of RS, who IMHO represented
the interests of the people of Velim to the best of his ability.

jc
Circa New York City
Jose Colaco
2014-01-09 15:19:59 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old research paper form Goa archive that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself. I have never voted for Roque Santana. Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
Siyona G Gaunkar
2014-01-08 22:25:44 UTC
Permalink
I am working on avery old ?research paper
form Goa archive? that says that soon
after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by
the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana. The origin of this dispute
goes back to 1920?s when this pro-Portuguese settlers excavated 12th century Velliapura Kadamba
Jayakeshi I Southern Capital site ,present day
Velim the ?the property of the Roque Santana family and converted
it into a paddy field in order to wipe the glorious history. ?In this paper it is noted that these group
as ?angels in disguise?.
?
in addition, Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within , which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing."We have jealousy towards each
other" he said.
?
As a part of my research project I ?met many in Velim who are just jealous?of this whole issue and i did notice many
were jealous of late Roque Santana so much so they tried to change topics or attempted
to tell their stories.

Siyona.
?
COMMENT:
Jose Colaco wrote:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
____________________________
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 05:19:41
-0400
From: Jose Colaco
<colaco1 at gmail.com>
To: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>,????"Goa's premiere mailing list,
????estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
: Re: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other ? Goa??Freedom????Fighters
Siyona Gaunkar wrote:
1: On the eve of 17th June 1952
Roque Santana was gravely injured in Chandor during an attack on one of Chandor's
Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan elements who
leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
2: The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him
COMMENT:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
Jc
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:25:47
-0700 (PDT)
From: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>
To:
"goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other - Goa Freedom??Fighters
Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within the association, which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
?Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing. We have jealousy towards each
other" he said. For that Goa CM Mr. Parrikar responded that Goa need second freedom struggle to??liberation the negative mentality
towards the State. Governor B V Wanchoo was present.
?
http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=9325&boxid=161424890&uid=&dat=6/19/2013
?
On the eve of 17thJune 1952Roque
Santana was gravely injured in Chandor
During an attack on one of
Chandor's Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan
elements who leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him and warning the Colonial rule
of dare consequences if the youth did not survive. At this point the Portuguese
police shifted Roque Santana from Margao Hospicio to Ribandar Military hospital
for better treatment. After this the Portuguese were reluctant to use deadly
force
This incident is the main reason
why Prime Minister Nehru planned to invaded Goa despite US objection.
As a part of my research project I
have met many freedom fighers??and
i did notice this jealousy each back stabbing the other??and many were jealous of late Roque
Santana so much so they tried to change topics.
?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan
2014 09:38:12 -0500
From:
Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com>
To:
"Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
???
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject:
Re: [Goanet] Father of Goan democracy
Message-ID:
<18BEEE02-C518-438A-90B9-6B24BF660BA1 at gmail.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain;??? charset=us-ascii

Like Eugene, I too found the
flurry of GoaNet posts, with nearly identical script, quite surprising.? I
only wonder IF the writer/writers believes(s) that these posts help or hurt the
legacy of Roque Santana Fernandes.

The
following from the post by a Veena Sa caught my attention
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2014-January/237178.html

*RS
was 'mortally injured' in 1955
*free
'Salcete island'
*RS
suffered a cardiac arrest at 'their palatial estate' in New York City in 2007
*Canarase,
a 'red Indian' village?
(The
'worrier' I took as a typo and read it as 'warrior')

I am a
native of Velim and, as a student, I knew both Dr. Sequeira and Roque Santana.
I, often had the opportunity to chat with RS. It was never about politics. I
found him to be an affable person who often stopped and chatted about How I was
getting on with my studies. I still to this day can only have the best of
things to say about Dr. Sequeira.

If one
has to truly honour RS, then one may have to do a better job than these set of
badly scripted posts. It might need an independent review of his life and struggles
conducted with the help of all the available documents.?

I
personally liked RS as a fellow Velcar and as a person (and I am sure he got
that impression from our informal chats usually by the Church / Bus stand)?

but I
do have the following beliefs: (1): the State has the obligation to provide
security to its citizens (2) : I am unable to make a serious judgement on any
issue ( not that my judgement matters to anybody else ) without studying all
the facts of the case.

It
would also be useful to learn more about the Award given to Dr. Jack de
Sequeira, I assume posthumously. Who else was short listed? What were the
criteria? Who decided? Who received it? How does it fall under the
classification of 'prestigious'?

ps: it
is my personal belief that the flurry of posts about the late RS, written in
indifferent English, could actually hurt the legacy of RS, who IMHO represented
the interests of the people of Velim to the best of his ability.

jc
Circa New York City
Jose Colaco
2014-01-09 15:19:59 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old research paper form Goa archive that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself. I have never voted for Roque Santana. Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
Siyona G Gaunkar
2014-01-08 22:25:44 UTC
Permalink
I am working on avery old ?research paper
form Goa archive? that says that soon
after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by
the? settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana. The origin of this dispute
goes back to 1920?s when this pro-Portuguese settlers excavated 12th century Velliapura Kadamba
Jayakeshi I Southern Capital site ,present day
Velim the ?the property of the Roque Santana family and converted
it into a paddy field in order to wipe the glorious history. ?In this paper it is noted that these group
as ?angels in disguise?.
?
in addition, Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within , which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing."We have jealousy towards each
other" he said.
?
As a part of my research project I ?met many in Velim who are just jealous?of this whole issue and i did notice many
were jealous of late Roque Santana so much so they tried to change topics or attempted
to tell their stories.

Siyona.
?
COMMENT:
Jose Colaco wrote:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
____________________________
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 05:19:41
-0400
From: Jose Colaco
<colaco1 at gmail.com>
To: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>,????"Goa's premiere mailing list,
????estb. 1994!"
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
: Re: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other ? Goa??Freedom????Fighters
Siyona Gaunkar wrote:
1: On the eve of 17th June 1952
Roque Santana was gravely injured in Chandor during an attack on one of Chandor's
Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan elements who
leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
2: The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him
COMMENT:
I wonder how a similar event would
play out in 2013 ........IF a. Youth leader had attacked an Indian Police depot
......
Jc
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:25:47
-0700 (PDT)
From: Siyona G Gaunkar
<siyona at ymail.com>
To:
"goanet at lists.goanet.org" <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] We have jealousy
towards each other - Goa Freedom??Fighters
Speaking during the Goa Revolution
day function at Azad maidan on Tuesday 18th June 2013. Mr. Chandrakant Kenkre,
President Goa Freedom Fighters Association
pointed out differences within the association, which came as a surprise to the
attendees.
?Freedom fighters are responsible
for the current situation they are facing. We have jealousy towards each
other" he said. For that Goa CM Mr. Parrikar responded that Goa need second freedom struggle to??liberation the negative mentality
towards the State. Governor B V Wanchoo was present.
?
http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=9325&boxid=161424890&uid=&dat=6/19/2013
?
On the eve of 17thJune 1952Roque
Santana was gravely injured in Chandor
During an attack on one of
Chandor's Police depots. The plan failed due to the pro-Portuguese Goan
elements who leaked the information to the Portuguese police,
The Times of India news paper
dated 18thJune 1952 carried the press statement of Prime Minister Pandit
Jawarharlal Nehru which was carried on all Portuguese news papers in Goa
strongly condemning the use of deadly force by the Portuguese police on the
youth leader Roque Santana gravely injuring him and warning the Colonial rule
of dare consequences if the youth did not survive. At this point the Portuguese
police shifted Roque Santana from Margao Hospicio to Ribandar Military hospital
for better treatment. After this the Portuguese were reluctant to use deadly
force
This incident is the main reason
why Prime Minister Nehru planned to invaded Goa despite US objection.
As a part of my research project I
have met many freedom fighers??and
i did notice this jealousy each back stabbing the other??and many were jealous of late Roque
Santana so much so they tried to change topics.
?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan
2014 09:38:12 -0500
From:
Jose Colaco <colaco1 at gmail.com>
To:
"Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
???
<goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Subject:
Re: [Goanet] Father of Goan democracy
Message-ID:
<18BEEE02-C518-438A-90B9-6B24BF660BA1 at gmail.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain;??? charset=us-ascii

Like Eugene, I too found the
flurry of GoaNet posts, with nearly identical script, quite surprising.? I
only wonder IF the writer/writers believes(s) that these posts help or hurt the
legacy of Roque Santana Fernandes.

The
following from the post by a Veena Sa caught my attention
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2014-January/237178.html

*RS
was 'mortally injured' in 1955
*free
'Salcete island'
*RS
suffered a cardiac arrest at 'their palatial estate' in New York City in 2007
*Canarase,
a 'red Indian' village?
(The
'worrier' I took as a typo and read it as 'warrior')

I am a
native of Velim and, as a student, I knew both Dr. Sequeira and Roque Santana.
I, often had the opportunity to chat with RS. It was never about politics. I
found him to be an affable person who often stopped and chatted about How I was
getting on with my studies. I still to this day can only have the best of
things to say about Dr. Sequeira.

If one
has to truly honour RS, then one may have to do a better job than these set of
badly scripted posts. It might need an independent review of his life and struggles
conducted with the help of all the available documents.?

I
personally liked RS as a fellow Velcar and as a person (and I am sure he got
that impression from our informal chats usually by the Church / Bus stand)?

but I
do have the following beliefs: (1): the State has the obligation to provide
security to its citizens (2) : I am unable to make a serious judgement on any
issue ( not that my judgement matters to anybody else ) without studying all
the facts of the case.

It
would also be useful to learn more about the Award given to Dr. Jack de
Sequeira, I assume posthumously. Who else was short listed? What were the
criteria? Who decided? Who received it? How does it fall under the
classification of 'prestigious'?

ps: it
is my personal belief that the flurry of posts about the late RS, written in
indifferent English, could actually hurt the legacy of RS, who IMHO represented
the interests of the people of Velim to the best of his ability.

jc
Circa New York City
Jose Colaco
2014-01-09 15:19:59 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Siyona G Gaunkar <siyona at ymail.com> wrote

"I am working on avery old research paper form Goa archive that says that soon after liberation Roque Santana wanted to do away with the ?zoan? enjoyed by the settlers from Carambolim, further this article says that this settlers never voted Roque Santana"

COMMENT

Re: ZONN
1: as one who has never personally collected or benefitted from this thing called Zonn (royalty on Carambolim commune property which pre-dates the arrival of the Portuguese in Goa but which was allegedly 'taken over' by the Portuguese apparently to act as a granary for Goa)

2: as one who opposes the entitlement culture and believes that the Zonn is a form of entitlement.

3: as one who believes that Zonn and all other entitlements are actually deterrents to personal self-development and education.

4: as one who believes that one should only gain financially from what one pays into or invests in.

5: and While I am not one to attend loud (and basically useless ) public meetings, morchas etc

6: and While I understand that my position might not take into account the contractual terms that might be involved in the Zonn

I believe I can perfectly well take a decision as an individual and stand on the side of anyone who opposed and opposes the Zonn.

Now, this might upset some of my folks (as in the past) ....... and So be it.

It is also my belief that Had the Carambolim settlers of Velim expended as much energy in hard work, academics and education as they did/do in the politics of Zonn, there would have been many more distinguished scientists, physicians, lawyers, educators and other professionals from Velim than there presently are. And trust me, there are quite a number. Never mind what Nehru is reported to have called us but it is not all 'Cooks and Butlers' in Velim (or Goa for that matter). Not that being a cook or butler is worth any less than any other profession.

Re: 'settlers never voted Roque Santana'

I can only speak for myself. I have never voted for Roque Santana. Also, I have never voted for any other politician or in any political election anywhere at any time. I just have not been able to trust politicians enough to bring myself to vote for them. It also happens that I left Goa (for good) soon after reaching voting age.

I cannot, with any form of reliability, comment on the secret ballots cast by others. Others might have this insight or knowledge. I certainly do not. I also lack the powers attributed to Caju Feni which I positively hate.


Re: the holding of 'Land' (ie. property)

Land Law cases will likely teach us that land and other pretentious acquisitions will only bring bring eventual 'panvati' to the family. Perhaps because of this and the influence of the Jesuits esp. my late uncle (by marriage) Tio Armando aka Swami Animananda SJ (Time Magazine Apr 23, 1973) my unitary family continues to live a very simple life in a small 2 bedroom flat. (Those who have visited me will attest to that). That is the only property we hold. Nada Mas. We have invested in our children's education and pray that they too focus on what is fair, meaningful and productive.

Re: Carabolim, SFX, Catholicism and the Portuguese.

I am grateful to be a descendant of Carambolim. I am also grateful to be a descendant of the first set of new Roman Catholics on the subcontinent. Just that you know, I oppose circumcision in little children unless it is surgically really warranted. Thank you Adm. Timoja and Thank you Portugal. But for your timely intervention, a whole pile of folks would continued to have their 'tips' excised.....and the rest of the other stuff. (No Thanks, however, for the Inquisition).

Above all, Thank You SFX for bringing Roman Catholicism to Goa and Jesuit Education esp to the 'outcastes' of the subcontinent......esp the Fishery Coast.


Re The State's duty to protect its citizens / residents

As I have said on numerous occasions before, I abhor violence....esp if it is directed against innocent civilians who are going about their daily lives. It is also my belief that Violence (exc in self defence) only provokes more Violence. And while some might prosper in the short term, a greater number eventually suffer. The increasing violence in the world has certainly caught my attention, hopefully yours too.

Besides, there is nothing which cannot be resolved (albeit gradually) by peaceful methods. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are near-time testaments to that.

Re: research papers.

That is an excellent idea. I know that you will research widely and with an open et analytical mind. As it is a literary paper and not a scientific one, you are unlikely to be burdened by statistics and statistical methods to remove bias. But surely, you will search and cross search the references of your references and submit the final product for an M. Phil or Ph.D at a good university like Goa. Univ.

I will not repeat/change any points made in my previous post on this subject (the one to which you posted your response)

I am happy to have had this opportunity to expand on my views with you. I do not have to be right and I am willing to learn. For that to happen, I, like, St. Thomas (the Apostle) will wish to see to believe.

I am almost certain that your research (and research methods) will be of the standard which will make everybody stand up and take notice. I am also sure you know the worth of papers based on uncorroborated 'anecdotes'.

So, all the very best in your research endeavour.

jc
ps: pl excuse any typos. This is scripted at one go.
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