Discussion:
From one RG to another an open letter
(too old to reply)
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-14 12:55:58 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian
just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not
be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no
matter how you console yourself.
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have
you done as a citizen in your adopted country ? Have you fought
injustice ? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those
countries provided to you as a citizen ?

These are important questions and distinguishes a person from
being an opportunist and an conscientious citizen.

Yes, America may be great, but what is your contribution to making
it great ?
If you didnt contribute to any change and just grabbed the
opportunity ( surely I dont deny that to be successful in those
countries one has to work hard and all that but let me tell you
in India, one has to work much harder to be half successful as
abroad --- and that is fact of the matter), then how will
you change things if you come back to Goa/India ?

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of
their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in
their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not
talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it
takes.


regards,
samir
Mario Goveia
2010-01-15 15:55:27 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>

For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?

Mario responds:

A lot. Yes. No.

Besides, Tony's statement above is provably false when applied to America. Residents of the other countries can speak for themselves.

Samir wrote:

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes.

Mario observes:

I disagree. To not disparage corruption is to accept it.

To not criticize the vast improvements that need to be made in India and Goa MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS would be doing a great dis-service to India and Goa. Do you think the pictures by Rajan and Joe were shot in a film studio?

Being IT specialists and suppliers of low cost goods and services contracted by and designed in the developed countries is hardly enough, though it's a good first step.

Harming India and Goa is the bribery and corruption and even goonda-giri at all levels, rampant tax cheating, civic carelessness and public behavior that is rarely seen in any developed country, and if seen is roundly condemned if not prosecuted and the culprits brought to justice.

No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.

In Goa, everyone is scared of the goonda-politicians. I have personal knowledge of at least one of them brazenly helping a crony steal ancestral property in my own village in Goa by using forged documents to transfer interest in the title to the property and then threatening the relatives to keep quiet or risk physical harm. How else do you think Goa has become such a mess? What good is a legal system when they can intimidate people to be quiet?

Pointing fingers outward and trying to disparage those NRGs who are trying to help, VOLUNTARILY, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY, does NOTHING to help either India or Goa.

"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke but never found in his writings.
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 04:15:29 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message ----
From: Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net>
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 2:55:27 AM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.

Please note
a) the colour of my skin made no difference
b) my nationality made no difference
c) my surname made no difference

to the outcome. I was asked neither for my nationality papers nor about my origins when I?bought properties.?I met with the conveyancing lawyers only for signing the documents, otherwise everything else was done over the 'phone, no running around in circles chasing people.

If you have the means to pay for your purchase, via a bank-loan or otherwise, no-one stops you, be it in London, be it in Melbourne.? I am intrigued as to how you came about this conclusion of exclusivity.? Only India (in my experience) seems to have this phobia about?non-nationals buying up properties in India.?

We are in no way second-class citizens. Avenues are open in all places, including the chance to be the Prime Minister or even the Governor-General. The current Governor for Victoria is?Sri-Lankan born - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_de_Kretser?.? The previous Mayor for the City of Melbourne (twice -running) was Chinese-born John So - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_So?- you may have heard the loud cheering for the man at the 2006 Commonwealth Games everytime John So's name was mentioned.

So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?


?Samir Kelekar
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a
citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab? > the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?
Fight what injustice?

There are services one does for free, as volunteers - St Vincent de Paul Society is one in which a lot of people (Goans included) put in their time.? In addition, donations to charities, time with the community, visiting the elderly etc. are?some of the activities we perform in our society, as our parents did in Goa.?I hope this satisfies the criteria "what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country".

PS In relation to justice, please see http://www.theage.com.au/national/ken-lay-top-traffic-cop-caught-speeding-20100114-maan.html?autostart=1? and
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/deputy-commissioner-ken-lay-caught-speeding-through-country-town/story-e6frf7jo-1225819442669


__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 04:15:29 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message ----
From: Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net>
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 2:55:27 AM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.

Please note
a) the colour of my skin made no difference
b) my nationality made no difference
c) my surname made no difference

to the outcome. I was asked neither for my nationality papers nor about my origins when I?bought properties.?I met with the conveyancing lawyers only for signing the documents, otherwise everything else was done over the 'phone, no running around in circles chasing people.

If you have the means to pay for your purchase, via a bank-loan or otherwise, no-one stops you, be it in London, be it in Melbourne.? I am intrigued as to how you came about this conclusion of exclusivity.? Only India (in my experience) seems to have this phobia about?non-nationals buying up properties in India.?

We are in no way second-class citizens. Avenues are open in all places, including the chance to be the Prime Minister or even the Governor-General. The current Governor for Victoria is?Sri-Lankan born - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_de_Kretser?.? The previous Mayor for the City of Melbourne (twice -running) was Chinese-born John So - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_So?- you may have heard the loud cheering for the man at the 2006 Commonwealth Games everytime John So's name was mentioned.

So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?


?Samir Kelekar
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a
citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab? > the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?
Fight what injustice?

There are services one does for free, as volunteers - St Vincent de Paul Society is one in which a lot of people (Goans included) put in their time.? In addition, donations to charities, time with the community, visiting the elderly etc. are?some of the activities we perform in our society, as our parents did in Goa.?I hope this satisfies the criteria "what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country".

PS In relation to justice, please see http://www.theage.com.au/national/ken-lay-top-traffic-cop-caught-speeding-20100114-maan.html?autostart=1? and
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/deputy-commissioner-ken-lay-caught-speeding-through-country-town/story-e6frf7jo-1225819442669


__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 04:15:29 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message ----
From: Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net>
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 2:55:27 AM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.

Please note
a) the colour of my skin made no difference
b) my nationality made no difference
c) my surname made no difference

to the outcome. I was asked neither for my nationality papers nor about my origins when I?bought properties.?I met with the conveyancing lawyers only for signing the documents, otherwise everything else was done over the 'phone, no running around in circles chasing people.

If you have the means to pay for your purchase, via a bank-loan or otherwise, no-one stops you, be it in London, be it in Melbourne.? I am intrigued as to how you came about this conclusion of exclusivity.? Only India (in my experience) seems to have this phobia about?non-nationals buying up properties in India.?

We are in no way second-class citizens. Avenues are open in all places, including the chance to be the Prime Minister or even the Governor-General. The current Governor for Victoria is?Sri-Lankan born - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_de_Kretser?.? The previous Mayor for the City of Melbourne (twice -running) was Chinese-born John So - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_So?- you may have heard the loud cheering for the man at the 2006 Commonwealth Games everytime John So's name was mentioned.

So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?


?Samir Kelekar
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a
citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab? > the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?
Fight what injustice?

There are services one does for free, as volunteers - St Vincent de Paul Society is one in which a lot of people (Goans included) put in their time.? In addition, donations to charities, time with the community, visiting the elderly etc. are?some of the activities we perform in our society, as our parents did in Goa.?I hope this satisfies the criteria "what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country".

PS In relation to justice, please see http://www.theage.com.au/national/ken-lay-top-traffic-cop-caught-speeding-20100114-maan.html?autostart=1? and
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/deputy-commissioner-ken-lay-caught-speeding-through-country-town/story-e6frf7jo-1225819442669


__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 04:15:29 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message ----
From: Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net>
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 2:55:27 AM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.

Please note
a) the colour of my skin made no difference
b) my nationality made no difference
c) my surname made no difference

to the outcome. I was asked neither for my nationality papers nor about my origins when I?bought properties.?I met with the conveyancing lawyers only for signing the documents, otherwise everything else was done over the 'phone, no running around in circles chasing people.

If you have the means to pay for your purchase, via a bank-loan or otherwise, no-one stops you, be it in London, be it in Melbourne.? I am intrigued as to how you came about this conclusion of exclusivity.? Only India (in my experience) seems to have this phobia about?non-nationals buying up properties in India.?

We are in no way second-class citizens. Avenues are open in all places, including the chance to be the Prime Minister or even the Governor-General. The current Governor for Victoria is?Sri-Lankan born - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_de_Kretser?.? The previous Mayor for the City of Melbourne (twice -running) was Chinese-born John So - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_So?- you may have heard the loud cheering for the man at the 2006 Commonwealth Games everytime John So's name was mentioned.

So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?


?Samir Kelekar
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a
citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab? > the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?
Fight what injustice?

There are services one does for free, as volunteers - St Vincent de Paul Society is one in which a lot of people (Goans included) put in their time.? In addition, donations to charities, time with the community, visiting the elderly etc. are?some of the activities we perform in our society, as our parents did in Goa.?I hope this satisfies the criteria "what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country".

PS In relation to justice, please see http://www.theage.com.au/national/ken-lay-top-traffic-cop-caught-speeding-20100114-maan.html?autostart=1? and
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/deputy-commissioner-ken-lay-caught-speeding-through-country-town/story-e6frf7jo-1225819442669


__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 04:15:29 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message ----
From: Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net>
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 2:55:27 AM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.

Please note
a) the colour of my skin made no difference
b) my nationality made no difference
c) my surname made no difference

to the outcome. I was asked neither for my nationality papers nor about my origins when I?bought properties.?I met with the conveyancing lawyers only for signing the documents, otherwise everything else was done over the 'phone, no running around in circles chasing people.

If you have the means to pay for your purchase, via a bank-loan or otherwise, no-one stops you, be it in London, be it in Melbourne.? I am intrigued as to how you came about this conclusion of exclusivity.? Only India (in my experience) seems to have this phobia about?non-nationals buying up properties in India.?

We are in no way second-class citizens. Avenues are open in all places, including the chance to be the Prime Minister or even the Governor-General. The current Governor for Victoria is?Sri-Lankan born - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_de_Kretser?.? The previous Mayor for the City of Melbourne (twice -running) was Chinese-born John So - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_So?- you may have heard the loud cheering for the man at the 2006 Commonwealth Games everytime John So's name was mentioned.

So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?


?Samir Kelekar
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a
citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab? > the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?
Fight what injustice?

There are services one does for free, as volunteers - St Vincent de Paul Society is one in which a lot of people (Goans included) put in their time.? In addition, donations to charities, time with the community, visiting the elderly etc. are?some of the activities we perform in our society, as our parents did in Goa.?I hope this satisfies the criteria "what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country".

PS In relation to justice, please see http://www.theage.com.au/national/ken-lay-top-traffic-cop-caught-speeding-20100114-maan.html?autostart=1? and
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/deputy-commissioner-ken-lay-caught-speeding-through-country-town/story-e6frf7jo-1225819442669


__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 04:15:29 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message ----
From: Mario Goveia <mgoveia at sbcglobal.net>
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 2:55:27 AM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.

Please note
a) the colour of my skin made no difference
b) my nationality made no difference
c) my surname made no difference

to the outcome. I was asked neither for my nationality papers nor about my origins when I?bought properties.?I met with the conveyancing lawyers only for signing the documents, otherwise everything else was done over the 'phone, no running around in circles chasing people.

If you have the means to pay for your purchase, via a bank-loan or otherwise, no-one stops you, be it in London, be it in Melbourne.? I am intrigued as to how you came about this conclusion of exclusivity.? Only India (in my experience) seems to have this phobia about?non-nationals buying up properties in India.?

We are in no way second-class citizens. Avenues are open in all places, including the chance to be the Prime Minister or even the Governor-General. The current Governor for Victoria is?Sri-Lankan born - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_de_Kretser?.? The previous Mayor for the City of Melbourne (twice -running) was Chinese-born John So - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_So?- you may have heard the loud cheering for the man at the 2006 Commonwealth Games everytime John So's name was mentioned.

So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?


?Samir Kelekar
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a
citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab? > the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?
Fight what injustice?

There are services one does for free, as volunteers - St Vincent de Paul Society is one in which a lot of people (Goans included) put in their time.? In addition, donations to charities, time with the community, visiting the elderly etc. are?some of the activities we perform in our society, as our parents did in Goa.?I hope this satisfies the criteria "what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country".

PS In relation to justice, please see http://www.theage.com.au/national/ken-lay-top-traffic-cop-caught-speeding-20100114-maan.html?autostart=1? and
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/deputy-commissioner-ken-lay-caught-speeding-through-country-town/story-e6frf7jo-1225819442669


__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-16 05:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/

I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik --- blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.

regards,
Samir
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 13:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Dear Samir,

Perhaps if you'd read that article properly, you would have noticed it said:
"The hype in the Indian media over racial attacks on Indian students in Australia would suggest that thousands of Indian students have been victims of such attacks over the past two years. This is not true.".? The "hype in the Indian media" says it all.? No boot-licking here - perhaps it is yourself who is doing licking vigorously somewhere and having a very sore tongue by now, perhaps why you think all of us rest are boot-lickers as well.

"A dispassionate look at the recent attacks on Indian students reveals some distinct patterns that are not exactly racist. First, the attacks have been on students and not on long-term residents working as skilled professionals.
...
In addition, there are a sizeable number of people of Indian origin from countries such as Fiji, Malaysia, Kenya and South Africa.
...
the attackers were a polyglot mix, reflecting the streets ? whites, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal and Pacific Islander. In one case, the alleged assailant was of "Middle Eastern appearance." In another incident, a young offender described as ?Aboriginal? committed the attack.
...
The Australian police are not far from truth when they describe the attacks as largely motivated by opportunity because Indian students work late at night, live in low-cost and usually crime-prone neighborhoods, and are regarded as soft targets.
...
The latter categories of students are actually migrants desirous of working as taxi drivers, carpenters and attendants in shops and hotels. Most do not mix with locals and live in virtual ghettoes, something that does not go well with the local population.
...
Why is it that one does not hear of similar incidents involving Chinese students, who number more than 120,000 in the country?"

I hope the rest of the readers make up their own minds from the above excerpts of the article that Samir pointed out, pointers Salus & I had mentioned in past emails.

Gabriel.

PS No more from me on this topic.

----- Original Message ----
Post by Mario Goveia
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: Goanet <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 4:02:53 PM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/
I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik ---? blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.
regards,
Samir
__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 13:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Dear Samir,

Perhaps if you'd read that article properly, you would have noticed it said:
"The hype in the Indian media over racial attacks on Indian students in Australia would suggest that thousands of Indian students have been victims of such attacks over the past two years. This is not true.".? The "hype in the Indian media" says it all.? No boot-licking here - perhaps it is yourself who is doing licking vigorously somewhere and having a very sore tongue by now, perhaps why you think all of us rest are boot-lickers as well.

"A dispassionate look at the recent attacks on Indian students reveals some distinct patterns that are not exactly racist. First, the attacks have been on students and not on long-term residents working as skilled professionals.
...
In addition, there are a sizeable number of people of Indian origin from countries such as Fiji, Malaysia, Kenya and South Africa.
...
the attackers were a polyglot mix, reflecting the streets ? whites, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal and Pacific Islander. In one case, the alleged assailant was of "Middle Eastern appearance." In another incident, a young offender described as ?Aboriginal? committed the attack.
...
The Australian police are not far from truth when they describe the attacks as largely motivated by opportunity because Indian students work late at night, live in low-cost and usually crime-prone neighborhoods, and are regarded as soft targets.
...
The latter categories of students are actually migrants desirous of working as taxi drivers, carpenters and attendants in shops and hotels. Most do not mix with locals and live in virtual ghettoes, something that does not go well with the local population.
...
Why is it that one does not hear of similar incidents involving Chinese students, who number more than 120,000 in the country?"

I hope the rest of the readers make up their own minds from the above excerpts of the article that Samir pointed out, pointers Salus & I had mentioned in past emails.

Gabriel.

PS No more from me on this topic.

----- Original Message ----
Post by Mario Goveia
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: Goanet <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 4:02:53 PM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/
I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik ---? blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.
regards,
Samir
__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 13:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Dear Samir,

Perhaps if you'd read that article properly, you would have noticed it said:
"The hype in the Indian media over racial attacks on Indian students in Australia would suggest that thousands of Indian students have been victims of such attacks over the past two years. This is not true.".? The "hype in the Indian media" says it all.? No boot-licking here - perhaps it is yourself who is doing licking vigorously somewhere and having a very sore tongue by now, perhaps why you think all of us rest are boot-lickers as well.

"A dispassionate look at the recent attacks on Indian students reveals some distinct patterns that are not exactly racist. First, the attacks have been on students and not on long-term residents working as skilled professionals.
...
In addition, there are a sizeable number of people of Indian origin from countries such as Fiji, Malaysia, Kenya and South Africa.
...
the attackers were a polyglot mix, reflecting the streets ? whites, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal and Pacific Islander. In one case, the alleged assailant was of "Middle Eastern appearance." In another incident, a young offender described as ?Aboriginal? committed the attack.
...
The Australian police are not far from truth when they describe the attacks as largely motivated by opportunity because Indian students work late at night, live in low-cost and usually crime-prone neighborhoods, and are regarded as soft targets.
...
The latter categories of students are actually migrants desirous of working as taxi drivers, carpenters and attendants in shops and hotels. Most do not mix with locals and live in virtual ghettoes, something that does not go well with the local population.
...
Why is it that one does not hear of similar incidents involving Chinese students, who number more than 120,000 in the country?"

I hope the rest of the readers make up their own minds from the above excerpts of the article that Samir pointed out, pointers Salus & I had mentioned in past emails.

Gabriel.

PS No more from me on this topic.

----- Original Message ----
Post by Mario Goveia
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: Goanet <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 4:02:53 PM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/
I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik ---? blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.
regards,
Samir
__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 13:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Dear Samir,

Perhaps if you'd read that article properly, you would have noticed it said:
"The hype in the Indian media over racial attacks on Indian students in Australia would suggest that thousands of Indian students have been victims of such attacks over the past two years. This is not true.".? The "hype in the Indian media" says it all.? No boot-licking here - perhaps it is yourself who is doing licking vigorously somewhere and having a very sore tongue by now, perhaps why you think all of us rest are boot-lickers as well.

"A dispassionate look at the recent attacks on Indian students reveals some distinct patterns that are not exactly racist. First, the attacks have been on students and not on long-term residents working as skilled professionals.
...
In addition, there are a sizeable number of people of Indian origin from countries such as Fiji, Malaysia, Kenya and South Africa.
...
the attackers were a polyglot mix, reflecting the streets ? whites, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal and Pacific Islander. In one case, the alleged assailant was of "Middle Eastern appearance." In another incident, a young offender described as ?Aboriginal? committed the attack.
...
The Australian police are not far from truth when they describe the attacks as largely motivated by opportunity because Indian students work late at night, live in low-cost and usually crime-prone neighborhoods, and are regarded as soft targets.
...
The latter categories of students are actually migrants desirous of working as taxi drivers, carpenters and attendants in shops and hotels. Most do not mix with locals and live in virtual ghettoes, something that does not go well with the local population.
...
Why is it that one does not hear of similar incidents involving Chinese students, who number more than 120,000 in the country?"

I hope the rest of the readers make up their own minds from the above excerpts of the article that Samir pointed out, pointers Salus & I had mentioned in past emails.

Gabriel.

PS No more from me on this topic.

----- Original Message ----
Post by Mario Goveia
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: Goanet <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 4:02:53 PM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/
I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik ---? blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.
regards,
Samir
__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 13:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Dear Samir,

Perhaps if you'd read that article properly, you would have noticed it said:
"The hype in the Indian media over racial attacks on Indian students in Australia would suggest that thousands of Indian students have been victims of such attacks over the past two years. This is not true.".? The "hype in the Indian media" says it all.? No boot-licking here - perhaps it is yourself who is doing licking vigorously somewhere and having a very sore tongue by now, perhaps why you think all of us rest are boot-lickers as well.

"A dispassionate look at the recent attacks on Indian students reveals some distinct patterns that are not exactly racist. First, the attacks have been on students and not on long-term residents working as skilled professionals.
...
In addition, there are a sizeable number of people of Indian origin from countries such as Fiji, Malaysia, Kenya and South Africa.
...
the attackers were a polyglot mix, reflecting the streets ? whites, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal and Pacific Islander. In one case, the alleged assailant was of "Middle Eastern appearance." In another incident, a young offender described as ?Aboriginal? committed the attack.
...
The Australian police are not far from truth when they describe the attacks as largely motivated by opportunity because Indian students work late at night, live in low-cost and usually crime-prone neighborhoods, and are regarded as soft targets.
...
The latter categories of students are actually migrants desirous of working as taxi drivers, carpenters and attendants in shops and hotels. Most do not mix with locals and live in virtual ghettoes, something that does not go well with the local population.
...
Why is it that one does not hear of similar incidents involving Chinese students, who number more than 120,000 in the country?"

I hope the rest of the readers make up their own minds from the above excerpts of the article that Samir pointed out, pointers Salus & I had mentioned in past emails.

Gabriel.

PS No more from me on this topic.

----- Original Message ----
Post by Mario Goveia
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: Goanet <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 4:02:53 PM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/
I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik ---? blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.
regards,
Samir
__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Gabriel de Figueiredo
2010-01-16 13:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Dear Samir,

Perhaps if you'd read that article properly, you would have noticed it said:
"The hype in the Indian media over racial attacks on Indian students in Australia would suggest that thousands of Indian students have been victims of such attacks over the past two years. This is not true.".? The "hype in the Indian media" says it all.? No boot-licking here - perhaps it is yourself who is doing licking vigorously somewhere and having a very sore tongue by now, perhaps why you think all of us rest are boot-lickers as well.

"A dispassionate look at the recent attacks on Indian students reveals some distinct patterns that are not exactly racist. First, the attacks have been on students and not on long-term residents working as skilled professionals.
...
In addition, there are a sizeable number of people of Indian origin from countries such as Fiji, Malaysia, Kenya and South Africa.
...
the attackers were a polyglot mix, reflecting the streets ? whites, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal and Pacific Islander. In one case, the alleged assailant was of "Middle Eastern appearance." In another incident, a young offender described as ?Aboriginal? committed the attack.
...
The Australian police are not far from truth when they describe the attacks as largely motivated by opportunity because Indian students work late at night, live in low-cost and usually crime-prone neighborhoods, and are regarded as soft targets.
...
The latter categories of students are actually migrants desirous of working as taxi drivers, carpenters and attendants in shops and hotels. Most do not mix with locals and live in virtual ghettoes, something that does not go well with the local population.
...
Why is it that one does not hear of similar incidents involving Chinese students, who number more than 120,000 in the country?"

I hope the rest of the readers make up their own minds from the above excerpts of the article that Samir pointed out, pointers Salus & I had mentioned in past emails.

Gabriel.

PS No more from me on this topic.

----- Original Message ----
Post by Mario Goveia
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>
To: Goanet <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 4:02:53 PM
Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/
I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik ---? blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.
regards,
Samir
__________________________________________________________________________________
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Tony de Sa
2010-01-16 17:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

I am convinced..
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.
Blah blah. [GABRIEL De F]

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good
ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore
bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I
have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you
are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A
lot of Goans could be classified as spics. I could go on and on.

But then there is no, repeat, there is no racial discrimination in the west,
is there (according to the chest thumpers)? Only aberrations.

Have a nice day bashing the next coolie.

Regards,
Tony
--
\\\
Tony de Sa
tonydesa at gmail.com
M : +91 9975 162 897
Ph. : +91 832 2470 148

^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
lyrawmn
2010-01-17 05:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Goveia,

?
You have articulated concisely and well the rebuttal to some RGs claims of unwarranted meddling by concerned NRGs in matters Goa.
I suspect theirs is a minority view culled?in literary salons of the cognoscenti.
?
In fairness,?the?RGs have a?point in one area.
Some?well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. ?RE: What are we waiting for posts?
This appears a heavy handed approach?and?ignores and discounts the long struggle by the loyal concerned citizens and environmentalists resident in Goa for over the past 2 decades.
?
You do recall Agonda? circa 1980es where hardy villagers, lawyers and environmentalists successfully halted the resort development in its track, yes?
Golf courses in a CRZ, you ask?? Yes!
?
At present the?many?RG activists have been?the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans?villagers?battling special interests in face of??threats,?intimidation,?litigation costs, time, etc?
Nandkumar ?Kamat has been at his?quest for over 20 years.
?
?
Post by Mario Goveia
No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.
You are right.

It?is pointless to debate the merits of transparency of governance and?the media in the?west versus?India. You are not going to change entrenched minds.
?
?
The 2009? Survey done by International Transparency?Org assigns India a CPI [Corruption Perception Index] rank of 84 in the 180 countries surveyed. [N. Zealand ranks 1 and ?Somalia 180, with China 79 and US 19].
As a survey it is an underestimates the pervasiveness of corruption.?
?
http:/n /www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table
?
other links:

http://mahendra-agarwalonline.20m.com/PR_IndiaSleazeCorruption.htm
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=479&catID=1
http://fightcorruption.wikidot.com/other
?
?I. Nunes
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 18:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Gabriel wrote:

I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Blah blah.

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:02:31 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

Mario observes:

Tony,

Your halleluja may be premature. You haven't been saved from anything yet as we continue to inform you about things you see mis-informed about.

For example, your latest poppycock is a gross misrepresentation of what Gabriel and I have written and taken totally out of context.

Gabriel and I were responding to your previous poppycock about foreign immigrants being unable to live and buy property anywhere in Australia or the US. Both Gabriel and I explained that we could buy properties wherever we could afford them without having to worry about being foreign immigrants.

I don't recall anyone talking about "no racial prejudice in the West and Australia".

There are stupid and prejudiced people in all countries, including Goa.

Tony wrote:

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics.

Mario observes:

People are being killed by common criminals everywhere. No one is focusing on Indians who may be victims from time to time.

Paki is a short form for Pakistani. The kids of your Canadian friends are simply disrespectful spoiled brats. Blacks were called "niggers" and whites are called "honkies". Calling someone of a different background or race names is no different than Goans calling non-Goans "bhaile" and "ghantis", etc.

Like I said above there are a few stupid and prejudiced people everywhere, including Goa. You and Samir are obviously prejudiced against NRGs.

This has nothing to do with were we can live or buy property, which was your original false charge.

I wonder what you will try to use next.

In the meantime, unlike the developed countries that Tony is obsessed about, Goa is going to the proverbial dogs, while a couple of RGs are busy attacking NRGs.
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 21:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:16:03 -0800 (PST)
From: lyrawmn <lyrawmn at yahoo.com>

Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts?

Mario responds:

You are correct. Because I believe their heart is in the right place, I have tried to gently "re-orient" such efforts towards the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance of corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests. If that unholy alliance cannot be disrupted, then little else will be achieved.

lyrawmn wrote:

At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc.
Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years.

Mario responds:

Kudos to all RGs who are involved in such attempts. Those RGs who are truly interested in turning things around in Goa welcome the NRGs who are interested in the same thing, rather that the couple who were seen throwing stones from their glass houses.
Tony de Sa
2010-01-18 08:21:54 UTC
Permalink
It appears that Boeing, Airbus Industrie and other aircraft manufacturers
are installing a secret gadget with a very powerful influence. It
brainwashes deshis who cross the oceans and empowers them with superior
knowledge and wisdom when they migrate. (The Brahmins of old feared crossing
the ocean because of the corrupting influence. Must be some truth in the
belief.)

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Come and show us or
forever hold your peace. If Mario or Gabriel or Bernardo can do it they can
be the next political leaders. Else they can forever be videshi boot
lickers.

Jai Goa, Jai Hind.
--
\\\
= \\-00 Tony de Sa
C u tonydesa at gmail.com
\ ~/ M : +91 9975 162 897
--|><| Ph. : +91 832 2470 148
= / |
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Mario Goveia
2010-01-18 17:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Mario asks:

NRGs have to tell you this? Don't you live in Goa? Can't you see for yourself? Don't you hear the barking? No wonder Goa is going to the canines.

Tony writes:

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how?

Mario responds:

Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil are all trying to show you, but you need to put down that bottomless glass of feni first, and realize that Goa is now under the control of the canines.

Get rid of at least a few rotters the same way you stopped the worst of the CRZ's - by getting up from your siesta, organizing the people, and electing honest politicians. Nothing much is going to happen unless you can rock the boat.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-14 12:55:58 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian
just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not
be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no
matter how you console yourself.
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have
you done as a citizen in your adopted country ? Have you fought
injustice ? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those
countries provided to you as a citizen ?

These are important questions and distinguishes a person from
being an opportunist and an conscientious citizen.

Yes, America may be great, but what is your contribution to making
it great ?
If you didnt contribute to any change and just grabbed the
opportunity ( surely I dont deny that to be successful in those
countries one has to work hard and all that but let me tell you
in India, one has to work much harder to be half successful as
abroad --- and that is fact of the matter), then how will
you change things if you come back to Goa/India ?

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of
their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in
their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not
talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it
takes.


regards,
samir
Mario Goveia
2010-01-15 15:55:27 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>

For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?

Mario responds:

A lot. Yes. No.

Besides, Tony's statement above is provably false when applied to America. Residents of the other countries can speak for themselves.

Samir wrote:

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes.

Mario observes:

I disagree. To not disparage corruption is to accept it.

To not criticize the vast improvements that need to be made in India and Goa MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS would be doing a great dis-service to India and Goa. Do you think the pictures by Rajan and Joe were shot in a film studio?

Being IT specialists and suppliers of low cost goods and services contracted by and designed in the developed countries is hardly enough, though it's a good first step.

Harming India and Goa is the bribery and corruption and even goonda-giri at all levels, rampant tax cheating, civic carelessness and public behavior that is rarely seen in any developed country, and if seen is roundly condemned if not prosecuted and the culprits brought to justice.

No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.

In Goa, everyone is scared of the goonda-politicians. I have personal knowledge of at least one of them brazenly helping a crony steal ancestral property in my own village in Goa by using forged documents to transfer interest in the title to the property and then threatening the relatives to keep quiet or risk physical harm. How else do you think Goa has become such a mess? What good is a legal system when they can intimidate people to be quiet?

Pointing fingers outward and trying to disparage those NRGs who are trying to help, VOLUNTARILY, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY, does NOTHING to help either India or Goa.

"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke but never found in his writings.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-16 05:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/

I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik --- blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.

regards,
Samir
Tony de Sa
2010-01-16 17:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

I am convinced..
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.
Blah blah. [GABRIEL De F]

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good
ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore
bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I
have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you
are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A
lot of Goans could be classified as spics. I could go on and on.

But then there is no, repeat, there is no racial discrimination in the west,
is there (according to the chest thumpers)? Only aberrations.

Have a nice day bashing the next coolie.

Regards,
Tony
--
\\\
Tony de Sa
tonydesa at gmail.com
M : +91 9975 162 897
Ph. : +91 832 2470 148

^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
lyrawmn
2010-01-17 05:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Goveia,

?
You have articulated concisely and well the rebuttal to some RGs claims of unwarranted meddling by concerned NRGs in matters Goa.
I suspect theirs is a minority view culled?in literary salons of the cognoscenti.
?
In fairness,?the?RGs have a?point in one area.
Some?well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. ?RE: What are we waiting for posts?
This appears a heavy handed approach?and?ignores and discounts the long struggle by the loyal concerned citizens and environmentalists resident in Goa for over the past 2 decades.
?
You do recall Agonda? circa 1980es where hardy villagers, lawyers and environmentalists successfully halted the resort development in its track, yes?
Golf courses in a CRZ, you ask?? Yes!
?
At present the?many?RG activists have been?the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans?villagers?battling special interests in face of??threats,?intimidation,?litigation costs, time, etc?
Nandkumar ?Kamat has been at his?quest for over 20 years.
?
?
Post by Mario Goveia
No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.
You are right.

It?is pointless to debate the merits of transparency of governance and?the media in the?west versus?India. You are not going to change entrenched minds.
?
?
The 2009? Survey done by International Transparency?Org assigns India a CPI [Corruption Perception Index] rank of 84 in the 180 countries surveyed. [N. Zealand ranks 1 and ?Somalia 180, with China 79 and US 19].
As a survey it is an underestimates the pervasiveness of corruption.?
?
http:/n /www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table
?
other links:

http://mahendra-agarwalonline.20m.com/PR_IndiaSleazeCorruption.htm
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=479&catID=1
http://fightcorruption.wikidot.com/other
?
?I. Nunes
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 18:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Gabriel wrote:

I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Blah blah.

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:02:31 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

Mario observes:

Tony,

Your halleluja may be premature. You haven't been saved from anything yet as we continue to inform you about things you see mis-informed about.

For example, your latest poppycock is a gross misrepresentation of what Gabriel and I have written and taken totally out of context.

Gabriel and I were responding to your previous poppycock about foreign immigrants being unable to live and buy property anywhere in Australia or the US. Both Gabriel and I explained that we could buy properties wherever we could afford them without having to worry about being foreign immigrants.

I don't recall anyone talking about "no racial prejudice in the West and Australia".

There are stupid and prejudiced people in all countries, including Goa.

Tony wrote:

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics.

Mario observes:

People are being killed by common criminals everywhere. No one is focusing on Indians who may be victims from time to time.

Paki is a short form for Pakistani. The kids of your Canadian friends are simply disrespectful spoiled brats. Blacks were called "niggers" and whites are called "honkies". Calling someone of a different background or race names is no different than Goans calling non-Goans "bhaile" and "ghantis", etc.

Like I said above there are a few stupid and prejudiced people everywhere, including Goa. You and Samir are obviously prejudiced against NRGs.

This has nothing to do with were we can live or buy property, which was your original false charge.

I wonder what you will try to use next.

In the meantime, unlike the developed countries that Tony is obsessed about, Goa is going to the proverbial dogs, while a couple of RGs are busy attacking NRGs.
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 21:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:16:03 -0800 (PST)
From: lyrawmn <lyrawmn at yahoo.com>

Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts?

Mario responds:

You are correct. Because I believe their heart is in the right place, I have tried to gently "re-orient" such efforts towards the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance of corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests. If that unholy alliance cannot be disrupted, then little else will be achieved.

lyrawmn wrote:

At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc.
Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years.

Mario responds:

Kudos to all RGs who are involved in such attempts. Those RGs who are truly interested in turning things around in Goa welcome the NRGs who are interested in the same thing, rather that the couple who were seen throwing stones from their glass houses.
Tony de Sa
2010-01-18 08:21:54 UTC
Permalink
It appears that Boeing, Airbus Industrie and other aircraft manufacturers
are installing a secret gadget with a very powerful influence. It
brainwashes deshis who cross the oceans and empowers them with superior
knowledge and wisdom when they migrate. (The Brahmins of old feared crossing
the ocean because of the corrupting influence. Must be some truth in the
belief.)

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Come and show us or
forever hold your peace. If Mario or Gabriel or Bernardo can do it they can
be the next political leaders. Else they can forever be videshi boot
lickers.

Jai Goa, Jai Hind.
--
\\\
= \\-00 Tony de Sa
C u tonydesa at gmail.com
\ ~/ M : +91 9975 162 897
--|><| Ph. : +91 832 2470 148
= / |
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Mario Goveia
2010-01-18 17:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Mario asks:

NRGs have to tell you this? Don't you live in Goa? Can't you see for yourself? Don't you hear the barking? No wonder Goa is going to the canines.

Tony writes:

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how?

Mario responds:

Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil are all trying to show you, but you need to put down that bottomless glass of feni first, and realize that Goa is now under the control of the canines.

Get rid of at least a few rotters the same way you stopped the worst of the CRZ's - by getting up from your siesta, organizing the people, and electing honest politicians. Nothing much is going to happen unless you can rock the boat.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-14 12:55:58 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian
just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not
be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no
matter how you console yourself.
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have
you done as a citizen in your adopted country ? Have you fought
injustice ? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those
countries provided to you as a citizen ?

These are important questions and distinguishes a person from
being an opportunist and an conscientious citizen.

Yes, America may be great, but what is your contribution to making
it great ?
If you didnt contribute to any change and just grabbed the
opportunity ( surely I dont deny that to be successful in those
countries one has to work hard and all that but let me tell you
in India, one has to work much harder to be half successful as
abroad --- and that is fact of the matter), then how will
you change things if you come back to Goa/India ?

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of
their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in
their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not
talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it
takes.


regards,
samir
Mario Goveia
2010-01-15 15:55:27 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>

For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?

Mario responds:

A lot. Yes. No.

Besides, Tony's statement above is provably false when applied to America. Residents of the other countries can speak for themselves.

Samir wrote:

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes.

Mario observes:

I disagree. To not disparage corruption is to accept it.

To not criticize the vast improvements that need to be made in India and Goa MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS would be doing a great dis-service to India and Goa. Do you think the pictures by Rajan and Joe were shot in a film studio?

Being IT specialists and suppliers of low cost goods and services contracted by and designed in the developed countries is hardly enough, though it's a good first step.

Harming India and Goa is the bribery and corruption and even goonda-giri at all levels, rampant tax cheating, civic carelessness and public behavior that is rarely seen in any developed country, and if seen is roundly condemned if not prosecuted and the culprits brought to justice.

No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.

In Goa, everyone is scared of the goonda-politicians. I have personal knowledge of at least one of them brazenly helping a crony steal ancestral property in my own village in Goa by using forged documents to transfer interest in the title to the property and then threatening the relatives to keep quiet or risk physical harm. How else do you think Goa has become such a mess? What good is a legal system when they can intimidate people to be quiet?

Pointing fingers outward and trying to disparage those NRGs who are trying to help, VOLUNTARILY, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY, does NOTHING to help either India or Goa.

"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke but never found in his writings.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-16 05:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/

I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik --- blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.

regards,
Samir
Tony de Sa
2010-01-16 17:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

I am convinced..
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.
Blah blah. [GABRIEL De F]

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good
ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore
bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I
have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you
are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A
lot of Goans could be classified as spics. I could go on and on.

But then there is no, repeat, there is no racial discrimination in the west,
is there (according to the chest thumpers)? Only aberrations.

Have a nice day bashing the next coolie.

Regards,
Tony
--
\\\
Tony de Sa
tonydesa at gmail.com
M : +91 9975 162 897
Ph. : +91 832 2470 148

^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
lyrawmn
2010-01-17 05:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Goveia,

?
You have articulated concisely and well the rebuttal to some RGs claims of unwarranted meddling by concerned NRGs in matters Goa.
I suspect theirs is a minority view culled?in literary salons of the cognoscenti.
?
In fairness,?the?RGs have a?point in one area.
Some?well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. ?RE: What are we waiting for posts?
This appears a heavy handed approach?and?ignores and discounts the long struggle by the loyal concerned citizens and environmentalists resident in Goa for over the past 2 decades.
?
You do recall Agonda? circa 1980es where hardy villagers, lawyers and environmentalists successfully halted the resort development in its track, yes?
Golf courses in a CRZ, you ask?? Yes!
?
At present the?many?RG activists have been?the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans?villagers?battling special interests in face of??threats,?intimidation,?litigation costs, time, etc?
Nandkumar ?Kamat has been at his?quest for over 20 years.
?
?
Post by Mario Goveia
No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.
You are right.

It?is pointless to debate the merits of transparency of governance and?the media in the?west versus?India. You are not going to change entrenched minds.
?
?
The 2009? Survey done by International Transparency?Org assigns India a CPI [Corruption Perception Index] rank of 84 in the 180 countries surveyed. [N. Zealand ranks 1 and ?Somalia 180, with China 79 and US 19].
As a survey it is an underestimates the pervasiveness of corruption.?
?
http:/n /www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table
?
other links:

http://mahendra-agarwalonline.20m.com/PR_IndiaSleazeCorruption.htm
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=479&catID=1
http://fightcorruption.wikidot.com/other
?
?I. Nunes
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 18:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Gabriel wrote:

I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Blah blah.

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:02:31 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

Mario observes:

Tony,

Your halleluja may be premature. You haven't been saved from anything yet as we continue to inform you about things you see mis-informed about.

For example, your latest poppycock is a gross misrepresentation of what Gabriel and I have written and taken totally out of context.

Gabriel and I were responding to your previous poppycock about foreign immigrants being unable to live and buy property anywhere in Australia or the US. Both Gabriel and I explained that we could buy properties wherever we could afford them without having to worry about being foreign immigrants.

I don't recall anyone talking about "no racial prejudice in the West and Australia".

There are stupid and prejudiced people in all countries, including Goa.

Tony wrote:

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics.

Mario observes:

People are being killed by common criminals everywhere. No one is focusing on Indians who may be victims from time to time.

Paki is a short form for Pakistani. The kids of your Canadian friends are simply disrespectful spoiled brats. Blacks were called "niggers" and whites are called "honkies". Calling someone of a different background or race names is no different than Goans calling non-Goans "bhaile" and "ghantis", etc.

Like I said above there are a few stupid and prejudiced people everywhere, including Goa. You and Samir are obviously prejudiced against NRGs.

This has nothing to do with were we can live or buy property, which was your original false charge.

I wonder what you will try to use next.

In the meantime, unlike the developed countries that Tony is obsessed about, Goa is going to the proverbial dogs, while a couple of RGs are busy attacking NRGs.
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 21:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:16:03 -0800 (PST)
From: lyrawmn <lyrawmn at yahoo.com>

Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts?

Mario responds:

You are correct. Because I believe their heart is in the right place, I have tried to gently "re-orient" such efforts towards the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance of corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests. If that unholy alliance cannot be disrupted, then little else will be achieved.

lyrawmn wrote:

At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc.
Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years.

Mario responds:

Kudos to all RGs who are involved in such attempts. Those RGs who are truly interested in turning things around in Goa welcome the NRGs who are interested in the same thing, rather that the couple who were seen throwing stones from their glass houses.
Tony de Sa
2010-01-18 08:21:54 UTC
Permalink
It appears that Boeing, Airbus Industrie and other aircraft manufacturers
are installing a secret gadget with a very powerful influence. It
brainwashes deshis who cross the oceans and empowers them with superior
knowledge and wisdom when they migrate. (The Brahmins of old feared crossing
the ocean because of the corrupting influence. Must be some truth in the
belief.)

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Come and show us or
forever hold your peace. If Mario or Gabriel or Bernardo can do it they can
be the next political leaders. Else they can forever be videshi boot
lickers.

Jai Goa, Jai Hind.
--
\\\
= \\-00 Tony de Sa
C u tonydesa at gmail.com
\ ~/ M : +91 9975 162 897
--|><| Ph. : +91 832 2470 148
= / |
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Mario Goveia
2010-01-18 17:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Mario asks:

NRGs have to tell you this? Don't you live in Goa? Can't you see for yourself? Don't you hear the barking? No wonder Goa is going to the canines.

Tony writes:

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how?

Mario responds:

Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil are all trying to show you, but you need to put down that bottomless glass of feni first, and realize that Goa is now under the control of the canines.

Get rid of at least a few rotters the same way you stopped the worst of the CRZ's - by getting up from your siesta, organizing the people, and electing honest politicians. Nothing much is going to happen unless you can rock the boat.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-14 12:55:58 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian
just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not
be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no
matter how you console yourself.
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have
you done as a citizen in your adopted country ? Have you fought
injustice ? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those
countries provided to you as a citizen ?

These are important questions and distinguishes a person from
being an opportunist and an conscientious citizen.

Yes, America may be great, but what is your contribution to making
it great ?
If you didnt contribute to any change and just grabbed the
opportunity ( surely I dont deny that to be successful in those
countries one has to work hard and all that but let me tell you
in India, one has to work much harder to be half successful as
abroad --- and that is fact of the matter), then how will
you change things if you come back to Goa/India ?

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of
their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in
their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not
talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it
takes.


regards,
samir
Mario Goveia
2010-01-15 15:55:27 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>

For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?

Mario responds:

A lot. Yes. No.

Besides, Tony's statement above is provably false when applied to America. Residents of the other countries can speak for themselves.

Samir wrote:

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes.

Mario observes:

I disagree. To not disparage corruption is to accept it.

To not criticize the vast improvements that need to be made in India and Goa MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS would be doing a great dis-service to India and Goa. Do you think the pictures by Rajan and Joe were shot in a film studio?

Being IT specialists and suppliers of low cost goods and services contracted by and designed in the developed countries is hardly enough, though it's a good first step.

Harming India and Goa is the bribery and corruption and even goonda-giri at all levels, rampant tax cheating, civic carelessness and public behavior that is rarely seen in any developed country, and if seen is roundly condemned if not prosecuted and the culprits brought to justice.

No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.

In Goa, everyone is scared of the goonda-politicians. I have personal knowledge of at least one of them brazenly helping a crony steal ancestral property in my own village in Goa by using forged documents to transfer interest in the title to the property and then threatening the relatives to keep quiet or risk physical harm. How else do you think Goa has become such a mess? What good is a legal system when they can intimidate people to be quiet?

Pointing fingers outward and trying to disparage those NRGs who are trying to help, VOLUNTARILY, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY, does NOTHING to help either India or Goa.

"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke but never found in his writings.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-16 05:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/

I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik --- blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.

regards,
Samir
Tony de Sa
2010-01-16 17:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

I am convinced..
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.
Blah blah. [GABRIEL De F]

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good
ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore
bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I
have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you
are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A
lot of Goans could be classified as spics. I could go on and on.

But then there is no, repeat, there is no racial discrimination in the west,
is there (according to the chest thumpers)? Only aberrations.

Have a nice day bashing the next coolie.

Regards,
Tony
--
\\\
Tony de Sa
tonydesa at gmail.com
M : +91 9975 162 897
Ph. : +91 832 2470 148

^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
lyrawmn
2010-01-17 05:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Goveia,

?
You have articulated concisely and well the rebuttal to some RGs claims of unwarranted meddling by concerned NRGs in matters Goa.
I suspect theirs is a minority view culled?in literary salons of the cognoscenti.
?
In fairness,?the?RGs have a?point in one area.
Some?well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. ?RE: What are we waiting for posts?
This appears a heavy handed approach?and?ignores and discounts the long struggle by the loyal concerned citizens and environmentalists resident in Goa for over the past 2 decades.
?
You do recall Agonda? circa 1980es where hardy villagers, lawyers and environmentalists successfully halted the resort development in its track, yes?
Golf courses in a CRZ, you ask?? Yes!
?
At present the?many?RG activists have been?the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans?villagers?battling special interests in face of??threats,?intimidation,?litigation costs, time, etc?
Nandkumar ?Kamat has been at his?quest for over 20 years.
?
?
Post by Mario Goveia
No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.
You are right.

It?is pointless to debate the merits of transparency of governance and?the media in the?west versus?India. You are not going to change entrenched minds.
?
?
The 2009? Survey done by International Transparency?Org assigns India a CPI [Corruption Perception Index] rank of 84 in the 180 countries surveyed. [N. Zealand ranks 1 and ?Somalia 180, with China 79 and US 19].
As a survey it is an underestimates the pervasiveness of corruption.?
?
http:/n /www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table
?
other links:

http://mahendra-agarwalonline.20m.com/PR_IndiaSleazeCorruption.htm
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=479&catID=1
http://fightcorruption.wikidot.com/other
?
?I. Nunes
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 18:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Gabriel wrote:

I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Blah blah.

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:02:31 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

Mario observes:

Tony,

Your halleluja may be premature. You haven't been saved from anything yet as we continue to inform you about things you see mis-informed about.

For example, your latest poppycock is a gross misrepresentation of what Gabriel and I have written and taken totally out of context.

Gabriel and I were responding to your previous poppycock about foreign immigrants being unable to live and buy property anywhere in Australia or the US. Both Gabriel and I explained that we could buy properties wherever we could afford them without having to worry about being foreign immigrants.

I don't recall anyone talking about "no racial prejudice in the West and Australia".

There are stupid and prejudiced people in all countries, including Goa.

Tony wrote:

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics.

Mario observes:

People are being killed by common criminals everywhere. No one is focusing on Indians who may be victims from time to time.

Paki is a short form for Pakistani. The kids of your Canadian friends are simply disrespectful spoiled brats. Blacks were called "niggers" and whites are called "honkies". Calling someone of a different background or race names is no different than Goans calling non-Goans "bhaile" and "ghantis", etc.

Like I said above there are a few stupid and prejudiced people everywhere, including Goa. You and Samir are obviously prejudiced against NRGs.

This has nothing to do with were we can live or buy property, which was your original false charge.

I wonder what you will try to use next.

In the meantime, unlike the developed countries that Tony is obsessed about, Goa is going to the proverbial dogs, while a couple of RGs are busy attacking NRGs.
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 21:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:16:03 -0800 (PST)
From: lyrawmn <lyrawmn at yahoo.com>

Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts?

Mario responds:

You are correct. Because I believe their heart is in the right place, I have tried to gently "re-orient" such efforts towards the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance of corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests. If that unholy alliance cannot be disrupted, then little else will be achieved.

lyrawmn wrote:

At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc.
Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years.

Mario responds:

Kudos to all RGs who are involved in such attempts. Those RGs who are truly interested in turning things around in Goa welcome the NRGs who are interested in the same thing, rather that the couple who were seen throwing stones from their glass houses.
Tony de Sa
2010-01-18 08:21:54 UTC
Permalink
It appears that Boeing, Airbus Industrie and other aircraft manufacturers
are installing a secret gadget with a very powerful influence. It
brainwashes deshis who cross the oceans and empowers them with superior
knowledge and wisdom when they migrate. (The Brahmins of old feared crossing
the ocean because of the corrupting influence. Must be some truth in the
belief.)

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Come and show us or
forever hold your peace. If Mario or Gabriel or Bernardo can do it they can
be the next political leaders. Else they can forever be videshi boot
lickers.

Jai Goa, Jai Hind.
--
\\\
= \\-00 Tony de Sa
C u tonydesa at gmail.com
\ ~/ M : +91 9975 162 897
--|><| Ph. : +91 832 2470 148
= / |
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Mario Goveia
2010-01-18 17:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Mario asks:

NRGs have to tell you this? Don't you live in Goa? Can't you see for yourself? Don't you hear the barking? No wonder Goa is going to the canines.

Tony writes:

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how?

Mario responds:

Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil are all trying to show you, but you need to put down that bottomless glass of feni first, and realize that Goa is now under the control of the canines.

Get rid of at least a few rotters the same way you stopped the worst of the CRZ's - by getting up from your siesta, organizing the people, and electing honest politicians. Nothing much is going to happen unless you can rock the boat.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-14 12:55:58 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian
just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not
be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no
matter how you console yourself.
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have
you done as a citizen in your adopted country ? Have you fought
injustice ? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those
countries provided to you as a citizen ?

These are important questions and distinguishes a person from
being an opportunist and an conscientious citizen.

Yes, America may be great, but what is your contribution to making
it great ?
If you didnt contribute to any change and just grabbed the
opportunity ( surely I dont deny that to be successful in those
countries one has to work hard and all that but let me tell you
in India, one has to work much harder to be half successful as
abroad --- and that is fact of the matter), then how will
you change things if you come back to Goa/India ?

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of
their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in
their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not
talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it
takes.


regards,
samir
Mario Goveia
2010-01-15 15:55:27 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>

For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?

Mario responds:

A lot. Yes. No.

Besides, Tony's statement above is provably false when applied to America. Residents of the other countries can speak for themselves.

Samir wrote:

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes.

Mario observes:

I disagree. To not disparage corruption is to accept it.

To not criticize the vast improvements that need to be made in India and Goa MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS would be doing a great dis-service to India and Goa. Do you think the pictures by Rajan and Joe were shot in a film studio?

Being IT specialists and suppliers of low cost goods and services contracted by and designed in the developed countries is hardly enough, though it's a good first step.

Harming India and Goa is the bribery and corruption and even goonda-giri at all levels, rampant tax cheating, civic carelessness and public behavior that is rarely seen in any developed country, and if seen is roundly condemned if not prosecuted and the culprits brought to justice.

No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.

In Goa, everyone is scared of the goonda-politicians. I have personal knowledge of at least one of them brazenly helping a crony steal ancestral property in my own village in Goa by using forged documents to transfer interest in the title to the property and then threatening the relatives to keep quiet or risk physical harm. How else do you think Goa has become such a mess? What good is a legal system when they can intimidate people to be quiet?

Pointing fingers outward and trying to disparage those NRGs who are trying to help, VOLUNTARILY, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY, does NOTHING to help either India or Goa.

"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke but never found in his writings.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-16 05:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/

I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik --- blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.

regards,
Samir
Tony de Sa
2010-01-16 17:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

I am convinced..
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.
Blah blah. [GABRIEL De F]

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good
ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore
bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I
have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you
are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A
lot of Goans could be classified as spics. I could go on and on.

But then there is no, repeat, there is no racial discrimination in the west,
is there (according to the chest thumpers)? Only aberrations.

Have a nice day bashing the next coolie.

Regards,
Tony
--
\\\
Tony de Sa
tonydesa at gmail.com
M : +91 9975 162 897
Ph. : +91 832 2470 148

^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
lyrawmn
2010-01-17 05:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Goveia,

?
You have articulated concisely and well the rebuttal to some RGs claims of unwarranted meddling by concerned NRGs in matters Goa.
I suspect theirs is a minority view culled?in literary salons of the cognoscenti.
?
In fairness,?the?RGs have a?point in one area.
Some?well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. ?RE: What are we waiting for posts?
This appears a heavy handed approach?and?ignores and discounts the long struggle by the loyal concerned citizens and environmentalists resident in Goa for over the past 2 decades.
?
You do recall Agonda? circa 1980es where hardy villagers, lawyers and environmentalists successfully halted the resort development in its track, yes?
Golf courses in a CRZ, you ask?? Yes!
?
At present the?many?RG activists have been?the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans?villagers?battling special interests in face of??threats,?intimidation,?litigation costs, time, etc?
Nandkumar ?Kamat has been at his?quest for over 20 years.
?
?
Post by Mario Goveia
No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.
You are right.

It?is pointless to debate the merits of transparency of governance and?the media in the?west versus?India. You are not going to change entrenched minds.
?
?
The 2009? Survey done by International Transparency?Org assigns India a CPI [Corruption Perception Index] rank of 84 in the 180 countries surveyed. [N. Zealand ranks 1 and ?Somalia 180, with China 79 and US 19].
As a survey it is an underestimates the pervasiveness of corruption.?
?
http:/n /www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table
?
other links:

http://mahendra-agarwalonline.20m.com/PR_IndiaSleazeCorruption.htm
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=479&catID=1
http://fightcorruption.wikidot.com/other
?
?I. Nunes
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 18:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Gabriel wrote:

I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Blah blah.

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:02:31 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

Mario observes:

Tony,

Your halleluja may be premature. You haven't been saved from anything yet as we continue to inform you about things you see mis-informed about.

For example, your latest poppycock is a gross misrepresentation of what Gabriel and I have written and taken totally out of context.

Gabriel and I were responding to your previous poppycock about foreign immigrants being unable to live and buy property anywhere in Australia or the US. Both Gabriel and I explained that we could buy properties wherever we could afford them without having to worry about being foreign immigrants.

I don't recall anyone talking about "no racial prejudice in the West and Australia".

There are stupid and prejudiced people in all countries, including Goa.

Tony wrote:

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics.

Mario observes:

People are being killed by common criminals everywhere. No one is focusing on Indians who may be victims from time to time.

Paki is a short form for Pakistani. The kids of your Canadian friends are simply disrespectful spoiled brats. Blacks were called "niggers" and whites are called "honkies". Calling someone of a different background or race names is no different than Goans calling non-Goans "bhaile" and "ghantis", etc.

Like I said above there are a few stupid and prejudiced people everywhere, including Goa. You and Samir are obviously prejudiced against NRGs.

This has nothing to do with were we can live or buy property, which was your original false charge.

I wonder what you will try to use next.

In the meantime, unlike the developed countries that Tony is obsessed about, Goa is going to the proverbial dogs, while a couple of RGs are busy attacking NRGs.
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 21:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:16:03 -0800 (PST)
From: lyrawmn <lyrawmn at yahoo.com>

Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts?

Mario responds:

You are correct. Because I believe their heart is in the right place, I have tried to gently "re-orient" such efforts towards the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance of corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests. If that unholy alliance cannot be disrupted, then little else will be achieved.

lyrawmn wrote:

At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc.
Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years.

Mario responds:

Kudos to all RGs who are involved in such attempts. Those RGs who are truly interested in turning things around in Goa welcome the NRGs who are interested in the same thing, rather that the couple who were seen throwing stones from their glass houses.
Tony de Sa
2010-01-18 08:21:54 UTC
Permalink
It appears that Boeing, Airbus Industrie and other aircraft manufacturers
are installing a secret gadget with a very powerful influence. It
brainwashes deshis who cross the oceans and empowers them with superior
knowledge and wisdom when they migrate. (The Brahmins of old feared crossing
the ocean because of the corrupting influence. Must be some truth in the
belief.)

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Come and show us or
forever hold your peace. If Mario or Gabriel or Bernardo can do it they can
be the next political leaders. Else they can forever be videshi boot
lickers.

Jai Goa, Jai Hind.
--
\\\
= \\-00 Tony de Sa
C u tonydesa at gmail.com
\ ~/ M : +91 9975 162 897
--|><| Ph. : +91 832 2470 148
= / |
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Mario Goveia
2010-01-18 17:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Mario asks:

NRGs have to tell you this? Don't you live in Goa? Can't you see for yourself? Don't you hear the barking? No wonder Goa is going to the canines.

Tony writes:

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how?

Mario responds:

Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil are all trying to show you, but you need to put down that bottomless glass of feni first, and realize that Goa is now under the control of the canines.

Get rid of at least a few rotters the same way you stopped the worst of the CRZ's - by getting up from your siesta, organizing the people, and electing honest politicians. Nothing much is going to happen unless you can rock the boat.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-14 12:55:58 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian
just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not
be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no
matter how you console yourself.
For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have
you done as a citizen in your adopted country ? Have you fought
injustice ? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those
countries provided to you as a citizen ?

These are important questions and distinguishes a person from
being an opportunist and an conscientious citizen.

Yes, America may be great, but what is your contribution to making
it great ?
If you didnt contribute to any change and just grabbed the
opportunity ( surely I dont deny that to be successful in those
countries one has to work hard and all that but let me tell you
in India, one has to work much harder to be half successful as
abroad --- and that is fact of the matter), then how will
you change things if you come back to Goa/India ?

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of
their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in
their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not
talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it
takes.


regards,
samir
Mario Goveia
2010-01-15 15:55:27 UTC
Permalink
That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/
Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial
prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still
a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Samir Kelekar <samir_kelekar at yahoo.com>

For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen?

Mario responds:

A lot. Yes. No.

Besides, Tony's statement above is provably false when applied to America. Residents of the other countries can speak for themselves.

Samir wrote:

I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes.

Mario observes:

I disagree. To not disparage corruption is to accept it.

To not criticize the vast improvements that need to be made in India and Goa MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS would be doing a great dis-service to India and Goa. Do you think the pictures by Rajan and Joe were shot in a film studio?

Being IT specialists and suppliers of low cost goods and services contracted by and designed in the developed countries is hardly enough, though it's a good first step.

Harming India and Goa is the bribery and corruption and even goonda-giri at all levels, rampant tax cheating, civic carelessness and public behavior that is rarely seen in any developed country, and if seen is roundly condemned if not prosecuted and the culprits brought to justice.

No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.

In Goa, everyone is scared of the goonda-politicians. I have personal knowledge of at least one of them brazenly helping a crony steal ancestral property in my own village in Goa by using forged documents to transfer interest in the title to the property and then threatening the relatives to keep quiet or risk physical harm. How else do you think Goa has become such a mess? What good is a legal system when they can intimidate people to be quiet?

Pointing fingers outward and trying to disparage those NRGs who are trying to help, VOLUNTARILY, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY, does NOTHING to help either India or Goa.

"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke but never found in his writings.
Samir Kelekar
2010-01-16 05:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind.?
Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties.
http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/

I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram
Naik --- blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed
that boot-licking mentality here in another post.

regards,
Samir
Tony de Sa
2010-01-16 17:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

I am convinced..
Post by Gabriel de Figueiredo
I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you.
Blah blah. [GABRIEL De F]

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good
ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore
bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I
have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you
are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A
lot of Goans could be classified as spics. I could go on and on.

But then there is no, repeat, there is no racial discrimination in the west,
is there (according to the chest thumpers)? Only aberrations.

Have a nice day bashing the next coolie.

Regards,
Tony
--
\\\
Tony de Sa
tonydesa at gmail.com
M : +91 9975 162 897
Ph. : +91 832 2470 148

^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
lyrawmn
2010-01-17 05:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Goveia,

?
You have articulated concisely and well the rebuttal to some RGs claims of unwarranted meddling by concerned NRGs in matters Goa.
I suspect theirs is a minority view culled?in literary salons of the cognoscenti.
?
In fairness,?the?RGs have a?point in one area.
Some?well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. ?RE: What are we waiting for posts?
This appears a heavy handed approach?and?ignores and discounts the long struggle by the loyal concerned citizens and environmentalists resident in Goa for over the past 2 decades.
?
You do recall Agonda? circa 1980es where hardy villagers, lawyers and environmentalists successfully halted the resort development in its track, yes?
Golf courses in a CRZ, you ask?? Yes!
?
At present the?many?RG activists have been?the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans?villagers?battling special interests in face of??threats,?intimidation,?litigation costs, time, etc?
Nandkumar ?Kamat has been at his?quest for over 20 years.
?
?
Post by Mario Goveia
No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India.
You are right.

It?is pointless to debate the merits of transparency of governance and?the media in the?west versus?India. You are not going to change entrenched minds.
?
?
The 2009? Survey done by International Transparency?Org assigns India a CPI [Corruption Perception Index] rank of 84 in the 180 countries surveyed. [N. Zealand ranks 1 and ?Somalia 180, with China 79 and US 19].
As a survey it is an underestimates the pervasiveness of corruption.?
?
http:/n /www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table
?
other links:

http://mahendra-agarwalonline.20m.com/PR_IndiaSleazeCorruption.htm
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=479&catID=1
http://fightcorruption.wikidot.com/other
?
?I. Nunes
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 18:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Gabriel wrote:

I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So
have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white
people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no
WASP-only localities -the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Blah blah.

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:02:31 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have
finally made me see the light of the day.

*There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia*

Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein.

Mario observes:

Tony,

Your halleluja may be premature. You haven't been saved from anything yet as we continue to inform you about things you see mis-informed about.

For example, your latest poppycock is a gross misrepresentation of what Gabriel and I have written and taken totally out of context.

Gabriel and I were responding to your previous poppycock about foreign immigrants being unable to live and buy property anywhere in Australia or the US. Both Gabriel and I explained that we could buy properties wherever we could afford them without having to worry about being foreign immigrants.

I don't recall anyone talking about "no racial prejudice in the West and Australia".

There are stupid and prejudiced people in all countries, including Goa.

Tony wrote:

But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia
are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics.

Mario observes:

People are being killed by common criminals everywhere. No one is focusing on Indians who may be victims from time to time.

Paki is a short form for Pakistani. The kids of your Canadian friends are simply disrespectful spoiled brats. Blacks were called "niggers" and whites are called "honkies". Calling someone of a different background or race names is no different than Goans calling non-Goans "bhaile" and "ghantis", etc.

Like I said above there are a few stupid and prejudiced people everywhere, including Goa. You and Samir are obviously prejudiced against NRGs.

This has nothing to do with were we can live or buy property, which was your original false charge.

I wonder what you will try to use next.

In the meantime, unlike the developed countries that Tony is obsessed about, Goa is going to the proverbial dogs, while a couple of RGs are busy attacking NRGs.
Mario Goveia
2010-01-17 21:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:16:03 -0800 (PST)
From: lyrawmn <lyrawmn at yahoo.com>

Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts?

Mario responds:

You are correct. Because I believe their heart is in the right place, I have tried to gently "re-orient" such efforts towards the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance of corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests. If that unholy alliance cannot be disrupted, then little else will be achieved.

lyrawmn wrote:

At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc.
Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years.

Mario responds:

Kudos to all RGs who are involved in such attempts. Those RGs who are truly interested in turning things around in Goa welcome the NRGs who are interested in the same thing, rather that the couple who were seen throwing stones from their glass houses.
Tony de Sa
2010-01-18 08:21:54 UTC
Permalink
It appears that Boeing, Airbus Industrie and other aircraft manufacturers
are installing a secret gadget with a very powerful influence. It
brainwashes deshis who cross the oceans and empowers them with superior
knowledge and wisdom when they migrate. (The Brahmins of old feared crossing
the ocean because of the corrupting influence. Must be some truth in the
belief.)

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Come and show us or
forever hold your peace. If Mario or Gabriel or Bernardo can do it they can
be the next political leaders. Else they can forever be videshi boot
lickers.

Jai Goa, Jai Hind.
--
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= \\-00 Tony de Sa
C u tonydesa at gmail.com
\ ~/ M : +91 9975 162 897
--|><| Ph. : +91 832 2470 148
= / |
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Mario Goveia
2010-01-18 17:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0530
From: Tony de Sa <tonyde.sa at gmail.com>

They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us
the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah

Mario asks:

NRGs have to tell you this? Don't you live in Goa? Can't you see for yourself? Don't you hear the barking? No wonder Goa is going to the canines.

Tony writes:

Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by
example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how?

Mario responds:

Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil are all trying to show you, but you need to put down that bottomless glass of feni first, and realize that Goa is now under the control of the canines.

Get rid of at least a few rotters the same way you stopped the worst of the CRZ's - by getting up from your siesta, organizing the people, and electing honest politicians. Nothing much is going to happen unless you can rock the boat.
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