Discussion:
Miracles
(too old to reply)
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 03:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because she has
no faith in Jesus. The church may say many things but I will not. Miracles
do take place every day in our lives and we do not need the authority of the
church to judge the works of God through Jesus. Banning me from writing
about God and Jesus is like closing your door of your heart to God. I
request Selma to take a trip to Pota and see and feel for your self the
presence of God and Jesus
Albert

_________________________________________________________________
Get up-to-date with movies, music and TV. Its happening on MSN Entertainment
http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Default
Vidyadhar Gadgil
2007-01-03 08:29:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 22:24 -0800, goanet-request at lists.goanet.org
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because
she has
no faith in Jesus.
Dear Albert,

Are you a seventh-day adventist or a Jehovah's Witness or something
similar?
--
Question everything -- Karl Marx
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 13:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life. The very fact that you are alive for so many
years is a miracle. For me Jesus is the centre of my life and he has worked
lots of miracles in me. i am fifty five years old without any problem of
pressure, diabetes, heart or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of God
and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am thankful to
him. Miracles do happen in several places and I have seen with my own eyes
how people get cured at Divine Retreat centre. Jesus has been working
miracles everyday. I have felt that we the Roman Catholics have deviated
from Christ and God whether you believe me or not. Even the Vatican 2
clearly tells us to focus our attention on God as the centre of our lives
and go to the Father through Jesus as he himself has said two thousand years
ago "I am the way the truth and the life and whoever wants to go to my
Father must come to me. Even our prayers are not prayers. We just recite our
father, hail mary glory several times and while our lips are busy reciting
these prayers our hearts are somewhere else. Prayers should be spontenous
coming out in jets from our hearts giving glory to God and thanking him for
the miracles that he performs in our life. The birth of children in our
homes, the sun rise the moon rise and the wind comes from God out of Love
albert

_________________________________________________________________
Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports,
photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx
Cornel DaCosta
2007-01-04 14:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Albert
Just a small point...if you have kept well as you say because God has had a
special place for your wellbeing, then isn't it logical to say that 'your'
God has not had time for the millions in a bad state of health however
religious they may be? Is such a God so arbitrary re his favours? Just
asking really re a small point arising from your post.
Good wishes
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
i am fifty five years old without any problem of pressure, diabetes, heart
or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
Post by Albert Desouza
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of
God and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am
thankful to him.
Cornel DaCosta
2007-01-04 14:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Albert
Just a small point...if you have kept well as you say because God has had a
special place for your wellbeing, then isn't it logical to say that 'your'
God has not had time for the millions in a bad state of health however
religious they may be? Is such a God so arbitrary re his favours? Just
asking really re a small point arising from your post.
Good wishes
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
i am fifty five years old without any problem of pressure, diabetes, heart
or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
Post by Albert Desouza
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of
God and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am
thankful to him.
Cornel DaCosta
2007-01-04 14:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Albert
Just a small point...if you have kept well as you say because God has had a
special place for your wellbeing, then isn't it logical to say that 'your'
God has not had time for the millions in a bad state of health however
religious they may be? Is such a God so arbitrary re his favours? Just
asking really re a small point arising from your post.
Good wishes
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
i am fifty five years old without any problem of pressure, diabetes, heart
or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
Post by Albert Desouza
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of
God and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am
thankful to him.
Cornel DaCosta
2007-01-04 14:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Albert
Just a small point...if you have kept well as you say because God has had a
special place for your wellbeing, then isn't it logical to say that 'your'
God has not had time for the millions in a bad state of health however
religious they may be? Is such a God so arbitrary re his favours? Just
asking really re a small point arising from your post.
Good wishes
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
i am fifty five years old without any problem of pressure, diabetes, heart
or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
Post by Albert Desouza
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of
God and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am
thankful to him.
Cornel DaCosta
2007-01-04 14:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Albert
Just a small point...if you have kept well as you say because God has had a
special place for your wellbeing, then isn't it logical to say that 'your'
God has not had time for the millions in a bad state of health however
religious they may be? Is such a God so arbitrary re his favours? Just
asking really re a small point arising from your post.
Good wishes
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
i am fifty five years old without any problem of pressure, diabetes, heart
or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
Post by Albert Desouza
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of
God and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am
thankful to him.
Cornel DaCosta
2007-01-04 14:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Albert
Just a small point...if you have kept well as you say because God has had a
special place for your wellbeing, then isn't it logical to say that 'your'
God has not had time for the millions in a bad state of health however
religious they may be? Is such a God so arbitrary re his favours? Just
asking really re a small point arising from your post.
Good wishes
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
i am fifty five years old without any problem of pressure, diabetes, heart
or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
Post by Albert Desouza
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of
God and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am
thankful to him.
Cornel DaCosta
2007-01-04 14:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Albert
Just a small point...if you have kept well as you say because God has had a
special place for your wellbeing, then isn't it logical to say that 'your'
God has not had time for the millions in a bad state of health however
religious they may be? Is such a God so arbitrary re his favours? Just
asking really re a small point arising from your post.
Good wishes
Cornel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
To: <goanet at lists.goanet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
i am fifty five years old without any problem of pressure, diabetes, heart
or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
Post by Albert Desouza
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of
God and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am
thankful to him.
Nasci Caldeira
2007-01-04 01:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Albert,

This is the first time, and your first posting that is
written properly and meaningful; also it is written
with content appropriate to the 'Topic in the Subject
Line'. "Miracles"

However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that! I also have attended Catholic
Charismatic services in Goa, Bombay and in Melbourne.
I was initiated at the Retreat House in Goa in a five
day 'live in' retreat. So I know what you are talking
about. However we should remember that in all things,
we can get 'carried away'; and thereby a lot of false
support and obsession does lead to false charities and
other sly 'money making business'!

The fathers from POTA have been to Melbourne and
Sydney several times and gone back with a lot of
donations (money)for their worthy cause.
We in Australia have never questioned their use or
disbursement of this money! All in good Faith! Have
you audited or ascertained about the POTA accounts or
questioned them? Yet you are sitting in judgement over
how funds etc are used in Goa, by Priests and others.
You should know that all Church money and property are
controlled and managed by the Parish Council by
whatever name! And almost always the Communidade
Gaunkars are in control of the Parish Councils in Goa!
So it these people who should be questioned by you and
not just the priests and other clergy. I know of
Parish Priests being transferred or spoken ill of, by
these Parish Councils when they do not have it their
way!

And YOU sat in judgement on Priests under a heading
and subject line that was the 'all important and
appropriate "Archbishop's Address".

Like Mario has told you nicely, I now like to tell you
again to write under the apropriate subject line
Heading! If you wish to talk/ comment on priests and
the clergy, fine, or on the monies and so on, fine;
but please do so under a suject line heading titled,
say: Clergy and Religion in Goa". You will have a lot
of support in such a debate, if you write 'sense' of
course! You /we must also 'learn' to stick to the
subject line Heading and not go 'off on a tangent',
for any debate to be more meaningful! OK??
Please do not respond to me as a person if you have
to; but respond to the 'issues' I have raised, OK?

Mog assundi!

Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne, Down Under!
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a
miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life.
Etc Etc Etc!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Mario Goveia
2007-01-04 15:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidyadhar Gadgil
Dear Albert,
This is the first time, and your first posting that
is written properly and meaningful; also it is
written with content appropriate to the 'Topic in
the Subject Line'. "Miracles"
However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that!
Mario adds:
It may be useful here to discuss a "miracle" is.
My understanding is that a miracle is an extraordinary
event for which there is no clear cut scientific
explanation. These are by their nature few and far
between. The religious then ascribe these to divine
intervention, whereas the non-religious may call it an
anomaly.
To a religious person like me calling almost anything
unusual a miracle - "Miracles happen every day" - is
to devalue a real miracle if and when it does happen.
In addition, the notion that miracles are more likely
to happen in certain places where miracles may have
happened previously should make no sense especially to
a truly religious person. For example, can any
religious person honestly believe that Our Lady has
any more allegiance to Lourdes or Fatima than to my
ancestral village grandiosely named Salvador do Mundo,
where the only "miraculous" event is that my family
hails from there?:-))
The last part is a joke, Cornel, as indicated by the
smiley face. No need to write a lengthy thesis on the
grammatical dissonance of this being a miracle.
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 03:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because she has
no faith in Jesus. The church may say many things but I will not. Miracles
do take place every day in our lives and we do not need the authority of the
church to judge the works of God through Jesus. Banning me from writing
about God and Jesus is like closing your door of your heart to God. I
request Selma to take a trip to Pota and see and feel for your self the
presence of God and Jesus
Albert

_________________________________________________________________
Get up-to-date with movies, music and TV. Its happening on MSN Entertainment
http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Default
Vidyadhar Gadgil
2007-01-03 08:29:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 22:24 -0800, goanet-request at lists.goanet.org
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because
she has
no faith in Jesus.
Dear Albert,

Are you a seventh-day adventist or a Jehovah's Witness or something
similar?
--
Question everything -- Karl Marx
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 13:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life. The very fact that you are alive for so many
years is a miracle. For me Jesus is the centre of my life and he has worked
lots of miracles in me. i am fifty five years old without any problem of
pressure, diabetes, heart or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of God
and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am thankful to
him. Miracles do happen in several places and I have seen with my own eyes
how people get cured at Divine Retreat centre. Jesus has been working
miracles everyday. I have felt that we the Roman Catholics have deviated
from Christ and God whether you believe me or not. Even the Vatican 2
clearly tells us to focus our attention on God as the centre of our lives
and go to the Father through Jesus as he himself has said two thousand years
ago "I am the way the truth and the life and whoever wants to go to my
Father must come to me. Even our prayers are not prayers. We just recite our
father, hail mary glory several times and while our lips are busy reciting
these prayers our hearts are somewhere else. Prayers should be spontenous
coming out in jets from our hearts giving glory to God and thanking him for
the miracles that he performs in our life. The birth of children in our
homes, the sun rise the moon rise and the wind comes from God out of Love
albert

_________________________________________________________________
Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports,
photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx
Nasci Caldeira
2007-01-04 01:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Albert,

This is the first time, and your first posting that is
written properly and meaningful; also it is written
with content appropriate to the 'Topic in the Subject
Line'. "Miracles"

However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that! I also have attended Catholic
Charismatic services in Goa, Bombay and in Melbourne.
I was initiated at the Retreat House in Goa in a five
day 'live in' retreat. So I know what you are talking
about. However we should remember that in all things,
we can get 'carried away'; and thereby a lot of false
support and obsession does lead to false charities and
other sly 'money making business'!

The fathers from POTA have been to Melbourne and
Sydney several times and gone back with a lot of
donations (money)for their worthy cause.
We in Australia have never questioned their use or
disbursement of this money! All in good Faith! Have
you audited or ascertained about the POTA accounts or
questioned them? Yet you are sitting in judgement over
how funds etc are used in Goa, by Priests and others.
You should know that all Church money and property are
controlled and managed by the Parish Council by
whatever name! And almost always the Communidade
Gaunkars are in control of the Parish Councils in Goa!
So it these people who should be questioned by you and
not just the priests and other clergy. I know of
Parish Priests being transferred or spoken ill of, by
these Parish Councils when they do not have it their
way!

And YOU sat in judgement on Priests under a heading
and subject line that was the 'all important and
appropriate "Archbishop's Address".

Like Mario has told you nicely, I now like to tell you
again to write under the apropriate subject line
Heading! If you wish to talk/ comment on priests and
the clergy, fine, or on the monies and so on, fine;
but please do so under a suject line heading titled,
say: Clergy and Religion in Goa". You will have a lot
of support in such a debate, if you write 'sense' of
course! You /we must also 'learn' to stick to the
subject line Heading and not go 'off on a tangent',
for any debate to be more meaningful! OK??
Please do not respond to me as a person if you have
to; but respond to the 'issues' I have raised, OK?

Mog assundi!

Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne, Down Under!
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a
miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life.
Etc Etc Etc!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Mario Goveia
2007-01-04 15:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidyadhar Gadgil
Dear Albert,
This is the first time, and your first posting that
is written properly and meaningful; also it is
written with content appropriate to the 'Topic in
the Subject Line'. "Miracles"
However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that!
Mario adds:
It may be useful here to discuss a "miracle" is.
My understanding is that a miracle is an extraordinary
event for which there is no clear cut scientific
explanation. These are by their nature few and far
between. The religious then ascribe these to divine
intervention, whereas the non-religious may call it an
anomaly.
To a religious person like me calling almost anything
unusual a miracle - "Miracles happen every day" - is
to devalue a real miracle if and when it does happen.
In addition, the notion that miracles are more likely
to happen in certain places where miracles may have
happened previously should make no sense especially to
a truly religious person. For example, can any
religious person honestly believe that Our Lady has
any more allegiance to Lourdes or Fatima than to my
ancestral village grandiosely named Salvador do Mundo,
where the only "miraculous" event is that my family
hails from there?:-))
The last part is a joke, Cornel, as indicated by the
smiley face. No need to write a lengthy thesis on the
grammatical dissonance of this being a miracle.
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 03:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because she has
no faith in Jesus. The church may say many things but I will not. Miracles
do take place every day in our lives and we do not need the authority of the
church to judge the works of God through Jesus. Banning me from writing
about God and Jesus is like closing your door of your heart to God. I
request Selma to take a trip to Pota and see and feel for your self the
presence of God and Jesus
Albert

_________________________________________________________________
Get up-to-date with movies, music and TV. Its happening on MSN Entertainment
http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Default
Vidyadhar Gadgil
2007-01-03 08:29:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 22:24 -0800, goanet-request at lists.goanet.org
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because
she has
no faith in Jesus.
Dear Albert,

Are you a seventh-day adventist or a Jehovah's Witness or something
similar?
--
Question everything -- Karl Marx
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 13:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life. The very fact that you are alive for so many
years is a miracle. For me Jesus is the centre of my life and he has worked
lots of miracles in me. i am fifty five years old without any problem of
pressure, diabetes, heart or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of God
and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am thankful to
him. Miracles do happen in several places and I have seen with my own eyes
how people get cured at Divine Retreat centre. Jesus has been working
miracles everyday. I have felt that we the Roman Catholics have deviated
from Christ and God whether you believe me or not. Even the Vatican 2
clearly tells us to focus our attention on God as the centre of our lives
and go to the Father through Jesus as he himself has said two thousand years
ago "I am the way the truth and the life and whoever wants to go to my
Father must come to me. Even our prayers are not prayers. We just recite our
father, hail mary glory several times and while our lips are busy reciting
these prayers our hearts are somewhere else. Prayers should be spontenous
coming out in jets from our hearts giving glory to God and thanking him for
the miracles that he performs in our life. The birth of children in our
homes, the sun rise the moon rise and the wind comes from God out of Love
albert

_________________________________________________________________
Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports,
photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx
Nasci Caldeira
2007-01-04 01:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Albert,

This is the first time, and your first posting that is
written properly and meaningful; also it is written
with content appropriate to the 'Topic in the Subject
Line'. "Miracles"

However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that! I also have attended Catholic
Charismatic services in Goa, Bombay and in Melbourne.
I was initiated at the Retreat House in Goa in a five
day 'live in' retreat. So I know what you are talking
about. However we should remember that in all things,
we can get 'carried away'; and thereby a lot of false
support and obsession does lead to false charities and
other sly 'money making business'!

The fathers from POTA have been to Melbourne and
Sydney several times and gone back with a lot of
donations (money)for their worthy cause.
We in Australia have never questioned their use or
disbursement of this money! All in good Faith! Have
you audited or ascertained about the POTA accounts or
questioned them? Yet you are sitting in judgement over
how funds etc are used in Goa, by Priests and others.
You should know that all Church money and property are
controlled and managed by the Parish Council by
whatever name! And almost always the Communidade
Gaunkars are in control of the Parish Councils in Goa!
So it these people who should be questioned by you and
not just the priests and other clergy. I know of
Parish Priests being transferred or spoken ill of, by
these Parish Councils when they do not have it their
way!

And YOU sat in judgement on Priests under a heading
and subject line that was the 'all important and
appropriate "Archbishop's Address".

Like Mario has told you nicely, I now like to tell you
again to write under the apropriate subject line
Heading! If you wish to talk/ comment on priests and
the clergy, fine, or on the monies and so on, fine;
but please do so under a suject line heading titled,
say: Clergy and Religion in Goa". You will have a lot
of support in such a debate, if you write 'sense' of
course! You /we must also 'learn' to stick to the
subject line Heading and not go 'off on a tangent',
for any debate to be more meaningful! OK??
Please do not respond to me as a person if you have
to; but respond to the 'issues' I have raised, OK?

Mog assundi!

Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne, Down Under!
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a
miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life.
Etc Etc Etc!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Mario Goveia
2007-01-04 15:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidyadhar Gadgil
Dear Albert,
This is the first time, and your first posting that
is written properly and meaningful; also it is
written with content appropriate to the 'Topic in
the Subject Line'. "Miracles"
However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that!
Mario adds:
It may be useful here to discuss a "miracle" is.
My understanding is that a miracle is an extraordinary
event for which there is no clear cut scientific
explanation. These are by their nature few and far
between. The religious then ascribe these to divine
intervention, whereas the non-religious may call it an
anomaly.
To a religious person like me calling almost anything
unusual a miracle - "Miracles happen every day" - is
to devalue a real miracle if and when it does happen.
In addition, the notion that miracles are more likely
to happen in certain places where miracles may have
happened previously should make no sense especially to
a truly religious person. For example, can any
religious person honestly believe that Our Lady has
any more allegiance to Lourdes or Fatima than to my
ancestral village grandiosely named Salvador do Mundo,
where the only "miraculous" event is that my family
hails from there?:-))
The last part is a joke, Cornel, as indicated by the
smiley face. No need to write a lengthy thesis on the
grammatical dissonance of this being a miracle.
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 03:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because she has
no faith in Jesus. The church may say many things but I will not. Miracles
do take place every day in our lives and we do not need the authority of the
church to judge the works of God through Jesus. Banning me from writing
about God and Jesus is like closing your door of your heart to God. I
request Selma to take a trip to Pota and see and feel for your self the
presence of God and Jesus
Albert

_________________________________________________________________
Get up-to-date with movies, music and TV. Its happening on MSN Entertainment
http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Default
Vidyadhar Gadgil
2007-01-03 08:29:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 22:24 -0800, goanet-request at lists.goanet.org
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because
she has
no faith in Jesus.
Dear Albert,

Are you a seventh-day adventist or a Jehovah's Witness or something
similar?
--
Question everything -- Karl Marx
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 13:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life. The very fact that you are alive for so many
years is a miracle. For me Jesus is the centre of my life and he has worked
lots of miracles in me. i am fifty five years old without any problem of
pressure, diabetes, heart or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of God
and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am thankful to
him. Miracles do happen in several places and I have seen with my own eyes
how people get cured at Divine Retreat centre. Jesus has been working
miracles everyday. I have felt that we the Roman Catholics have deviated
from Christ and God whether you believe me or not. Even the Vatican 2
clearly tells us to focus our attention on God as the centre of our lives
and go to the Father through Jesus as he himself has said two thousand years
ago "I am the way the truth and the life and whoever wants to go to my
Father must come to me. Even our prayers are not prayers. We just recite our
father, hail mary glory several times and while our lips are busy reciting
these prayers our hearts are somewhere else. Prayers should be spontenous
coming out in jets from our hearts giving glory to God and thanking him for
the miracles that he performs in our life. The birth of children in our
homes, the sun rise the moon rise and the wind comes from God out of Love
albert

_________________________________________________________________
Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports,
photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx
Nasci Caldeira
2007-01-04 01:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Albert,

This is the first time, and your first posting that is
written properly and meaningful; also it is written
with content appropriate to the 'Topic in the Subject
Line'. "Miracles"

However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that! I also have attended Catholic
Charismatic services in Goa, Bombay and in Melbourne.
I was initiated at the Retreat House in Goa in a five
day 'live in' retreat. So I know what you are talking
about. However we should remember that in all things,
we can get 'carried away'; and thereby a lot of false
support and obsession does lead to false charities and
other sly 'money making business'!

The fathers from POTA have been to Melbourne and
Sydney several times and gone back with a lot of
donations (money)for their worthy cause.
We in Australia have never questioned their use or
disbursement of this money! All in good Faith! Have
you audited or ascertained about the POTA accounts or
questioned them? Yet you are sitting in judgement over
how funds etc are used in Goa, by Priests and others.
You should know that all Church money and property are
controlled and managed by the Parish Council by
whatever name! And almost always the Communidade
Gaunkars are in control of the Parish Councils in Goa!
So it these people who should be questioned by you and
not just the priests and other clergy. I know of
Parish Priests being transferred or spoken ill of, by
these Parish Councils when they do not have it their
way!

And YOU sat in judgement on Priests under a heading
and subject line that was the 'all important and
appropriate "Archbishop's Address".

Like Mario has told you nicely, I now like to tell you
again to write under the apropriate subject line
Heading! If you wish to talk/ comment on priests and
the clergy, fine, or on the monies and so on, fine;
but please do so under a suject line heading titled,
say: Clergy and Religion in Goa". You will have a lot
of support in such a debate, if you write 'sense' of
course! You /we must also 'learn' to stick to the
subject line Heading and not go 'off on a tangent',
for any debate to be more meaningful! OK??
Please do not respond to me as a person if you have
to; but respond to the 'issues' I have raised, OK?

Mog assundi!

Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne, Down Under!
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a
miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life.
Etc Etc Etc!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Mario Goveia
2007-01-04 15:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidyadhar Gadgil
Dear Albert,
This is the first time, and your first posting that
is written properly and meaningful; also it is
written with content appropriate to the 'Topic in
the Subject Line'. "Miracles"
However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that!
Mario adds:
It may be useful here to discuss a "miracle" is.
My understanding is that a miracle is an extraordinary
event for which there is no clear cut scientific
explanation. These are by their nature few and far
between. The religious then ascribe these to divine
intervention, whereas the non-religious may call it an
anomaly.
To a religious person like me calling almost anything
unusual a miracle - "Miracles happen every day" - is
to devalue a real miracle if and when it does happen.
In addition, the notion that miracles are more likely
to happen in certain places where miracles may have
happened previously should make no sense especially to
a truly religious person. For example, can any
religious person honestly believe that Our Lady has
any more allegiance to Lourdes or Fatima than to my
ancestral village grandiosely named Salvador do Mundo,
where the only "miraculous" event is that my family
hails from there?:-))
The last part is a joke, Cornel, as indicated by the
smiley face. No need to write a lengthy thesis on the
grammatical dissonance of this being a miracle.
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 03:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because she has
no faith in Jesus. The church may say many things but I will not. Miracles
do take place every day in our lives and we do not need the authority of the
church to judge the works of God through Jesus. Banning me from writing
about God and Jesus is like closing your door of your heart to God. I
request Selma to take a trip to Pota and see and feel for your self the
presence of God and Jesus
Albert

_________________________________________________________________
Get up-to-date with movies, music and TV. Its happening on MSN Entertainment
http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Default
Vidyadhar Gadgil
2007-01-03 08:29:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 22:24 -0800, goanet-request at lists.goanet.org
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because
she has
no faith in Jesus.
Dear Albert,

Are you a seventh-day adventist or a Jehovah's Witness or something
similar?
--
Question everything -- Karl Marx
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 13:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life. The very fact that you are alive for so many
years is a miracle. For me Jesus is the centre of my life and he has worked
lots of miracles in me. i am fifty five years old without any problem of
pressure, diabetes, heart or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of God
and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am thankful to
him. Miracles do happen in several places and I have seen with my own eyes
how people get cured at Divine Retreat centre. Jesus has been working
miracles everyday. I have felt that we the Roman Catholics have deviated
from Christ and God whether you believe me or not. Even the Vatican 2
clearly tells us to focus our attention on God as the centre of our lives
and go to the Father through Jesus as he himself has said two thousand years
ago "I am the way the truth and the life and whoever wants to go to my
Father must come to me. Even our prayers are not prayers. We just recite our
father, hail mary glory several times and while our lips are busy reciting
these prayers our hearts are somewhere else. Prayers should be spontenous
coming out in jets from our hearts giving glory to God and thanking him for
the miracles that he performs in our life. The birth of children in our
homes, the sun rise the moon rise and the wind comes from God out of Love
albert

_________________________________________________________________
Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports,
photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx
Nasci Caldeira
2007-01-04 01:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Albert,

This is the first time, and your first posting that is
written properly and meaningful; also it is written
with content appropriate to the 'Topic in the Subject
Line'. "Miracles"

However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that! I also have attended Catholic
Charismatic services in Goa, Bombay and in Melbourne.
I was initiated at the Retreat House in Goa in a five
day 'live in' retreat. So I know what you are talking
about. However we should remember that in all things,
we can get 'carried away'; and thereby a lot of false
support and obsession does lead to false charities and
other sly 'money making business'!

The fathers from POTA have been to Melbourne and
Sydney several times and gone back with a lot of
donations (money)for their worthy cause.
We in Australia have never questioned their use or
disbursement of this money! All in good Faith! Have
you audited or ascertained about the POTA accounts or
questioned them? Yet you are sitting in judgement over
how funds etc are used in Goa, by Priests and others.
You should know that all Church money and property are
controlled and managed by the Parish Council by
whatever name! And almost always the Communidade
Gaunkars are in control of the Parish Councils in Goa!
So it these people who should be questioned by you and
not just the priests and other clergy. I know of
Parish Priests being transferred or spoken ill of, by
these Parish Councils when they do not have it their
way!

And YOU sat in judgement on Priests under a heading
and subject line that was the 'all important and
appropriate "Archbishop's Address".

Like Mario has told you nicely, I now like to tell you
again to write under the apropriate subject line
Heading! If you wish to talk/ comment on priests and
the clergy, fine, or on the monies and so on, fine;
but please do so under a suject line heading titled,
say: Clergy and Religion in Goa". You will have a lot
of support in such a debate, if you write 'sense' of
course! You /we must also 'learn' to stick to the
subject line Heading and not go 'off on a tangent',
for any debate to be more meaningful! OK??
Please do not respond to me as a person if you have
to; but respond to the 'issues' I have raised, OK?

Mog assundi!

Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne, Down Under!
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a
miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life.
Etc Etc Etc!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Mario Goveia
2007-01-04 15:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidyadhar Gadgil
Dear Albert,
This is the first time, and your first posting that
is written properly and meaningful; also it is
written with content appropriate to the 'Topic in
the Subject Line'. "Miracles"
However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that!
Mario adds:
It may be useful here to discuss a "miracle" is.
My understanding is that a miracle is an extraordinary
event for which there is no clear cut scientific
explanation. These are by their nature few and far
between. The religious then ascribe these to divine
intervention, whereas the non-religious may call it an
anomaly.
To a religious person like me calling almost anything
unusual a miracle - "Miracles happen every day" - is
to devalue a real miracle if and when it does happen.
In addition, the notion that miracles are more likely
to happen in certain places where miracles may have
happened previously should make no sense especially to
a truly religious person. For example, can any
religious person honestly believe that Our Lady has
any more allegiance to Lourdes or Fatima than to my
ancestral village grandiosely named Salvador do Mundo,
where the only "miraculous" event is that my family
hails from there?:-))
The last part is a joke, Cornel, as indicated by the
smiley face. No need to write a lengthy thesis on the
grammatical dissonance of this being a miracle.
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 03:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because she has
no faith in Jesus. The church may say many things but I will not. Miracles
do take place every day in our lives and we do not need the authority of the
church to judge the works of God through Jesus. Banning me from writing
about God and Jesus is like closing your door of your heart to God. I
request Selma to take a trip to Pota and see and feel for your self the
presence of God and Jesus
Albert

_________________________________________________________________
Get up-to-date with movies, music and TV. Its happening on MSN Entertainment
http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Default
Vidyadhar Gadgil
2007-01-03 08:29:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 22:24 -0800, goanet-request at lists.goanet.org
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because
she has
no faith in Jesus.
Dear Albert,

Are you a seventh-day adventist or a Jehovah's Witness or something
similar?
--
Question everything -- Karl Marx
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 13:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life. The very fact that you are alive for so many
years is a miracle. For me Jesus is the centre of my life and he has worked
lots of miracles in me. i am fifty five years old without any problem of
pressure, diabetes, heart or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of God
and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am thankful to
him. Miracles do happen in several places and I have seen with my own eyes
how people get cured at Divine Retreat centre. Jesus has been working
miracles everyday. I have felt that we the Roman Catholics have deviated
from Christ and God whether you believe me or not. Even the Vatican 2
clearly tells us to focus our attention on God as the centre of our lives
and go to the Father through Jesus as he himself has said two thousand years
ago "I am the way the truth and the life and whoever wants to go to my
Father must come to me. Even our prayers are not prayers. We just recite our
father, hail mary glory several times and while our lips are busy reciting
these prayers our hearts are somewhere else. Prayers should be spontenous
coming out in jets from our hearts giving glory to God and thanking him for
the miracles that he performs in our life. The birth of children in our
homes, the sun rise the moon rise and the wind comes from God out of Love
albert

_________________________________________________________________
Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports,
photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx
Nasci Caldeira
2007-01-04 01:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Albert,

This is the first time, and your first posting that is
written properly and meaningful; also it is written
with content appropriate to the 'Topic in the Subject
Line'. "Miracles"

However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that! I also have attended Catholic
Charismatic services in Goa, Bombay and in Melbourne.
I was initiated at the Retreat House in Goa in a five
day 'live in' retreat. So I know what you are talking
about. However we should remember that in all things,
we can get 'carried away'; and thereby a lot of false
support and obsession does lead to false charities and
other sly 'money making business'!

The fathers from POTA have been to Melbourne and
Sydney several times and gone back with a lot of
donations (money)for their worthy cause.
We in Australia have never questioned their use or
disbursement of this money! All in good Faith! Have
you audited or ascertained about the POTA accounts or
questioned them? Yet you are sitting in judgement over
how funds etc are used in Goa, by Priests and others.
You should know that all Church money and property are
controlled and managed by the Parish Council by
whatever name! And almost always the Communidade
Gaunkars are in control of the Parish Councils in Goa!
So it these people who should be questioned by you and
not just the priests and other clergy. I know of
Parish Priests being transferred or spoken ill of, by
these Parish Councils when they do not have it their
way!

And YOU sat in judgement on Priests under a heading
and subject line that was the 'all important and
appropriate "Archbishop's Address".

Like Mario has told you nicely, I now like to tell you
again to write under the apropriate subject line
Heading! If you wish to talk/ comment on priests and
the clergy, fine, or on the monies and so on, fine;
but please do so under a suject line heading titled,
say: Clergy and Religion in Goa". You will have a lot
of support in such a debate, if you write 'sense' of
course! You /we must also 'learn' to stick to the
subject line Heading and not go 'off on a tangent',
for any debate to be more meaningful! OK??
Please do not respond to me as a person if you have
to; but respond to the 'issues' I have raised, OK?

Mog assundi!

Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne, Down Under!
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a
miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life.
Etc Etc Etc!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Mario Goveia
2007-01-04 15:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidyadhar Gadgil
Dear Albert,
This is the first time, and your first posting that
is written properly and meaningful; also it is
written with content appropriate to the 'Topic in
the Subject Line'. "Miracles"
However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that!
Mario adds:
It may be useful here to discuss a "miracle" is.
My understanding is that a miracle is an extraordinary
event for which there is no clear cut scientific
explanation. These are by their nature few and far
between. The religious then ascribe these to divine
intervention, whereas the non-religious may call it an
anomaly.
To a religious person like me calling almost anything
unusual a miracle - "Miracles happen every day" - is
to devalue a real miracle if and when it does happen.
In addition, the notion that miracles are more likely
to happen in certain places where miracles may have
happened previously should make no sense especially to
a truly religious person. For example, can any
religious person honestly believe that Our Lady has
any more allegiance to Lourdes or Fatima than to my
ancestral village grandiosely named Salvador do Mundo,
where the only "miraculous" event is that my family
hails from there?:-))
The last part is a joke, Cornel, as indicated by the
smiley face. No need to write a lengthy thesis on the
grammatical dissonance of this being a miracle.
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 03:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because she has
no faith in Jesus. The church may say many things but I will not. Miracles
do take place every day in our lives and we do not need the authority of the
church to judge the works of God through Jesus. Banning me from writing
about God and Jesus is like closing your door of your heart to God. I
request Selma to take a trip to Pota and see and feel for your self the
presence of God and Jesus
Albert

_________________________________________________________________
Get up-to-date with movies, music and TV. Its happening on MSN Entertainment
http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Default
Vidyadhar Gadgil
2007-01-03 08:29:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 22:24 -0800, goanet-request at lists.goanet.org
From: "Albert Desouza" <alizadesouza at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Goanet] Miracles
To: goanet at lists.goanet.org
Albert writes
M/S Selma does not believe in miracles taking place at Pota because
she has
no faith in Jesus.
Dear Albert,

Are you a seventh-day adventist or a Jehovah's Witness or something
similar?
--
Question everything -- Karl Marx
Albert Desouza
2007-01-03 13:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life. The very fact that you are alive for so many
years is a miracle. For me Jesus is the centre of my life and he has worked
lots of miracles in me. i am fifty five years old without any problem of
pressure, diabetes, heart or any sort. I have not undergone any operation or
hospitalisation except only once that also just for few days. All these
things have happened to me because I am a special being in the heart of God
and He has given me a free from all disease life for which I am thankful to
him. Miracles do happen in several places and I have seen with my own eyes
how people get cured at Divine Retreat centre. Jesus has been working
miracles everyday. I have felt that we the Roman Catholics have deviated
from Christ and God whether you believe me or not. Even the Vatican 2
clearly tells us to focus our attention on God as the centre of our lives
and go to the Father through Jesus as he himself has said two thousand years
ago "I am the way the truth and the life and whoever wants to go to my
Father must come to me. Even our prayers are not prayers. We just recite our
father, hail mary glory several times and while our lips are busy reciting
these prayers our hearts are somewhere else. Prayers should be spontenous
coming out in jets from our hearts giving glory to God and thanking him for
the miracles that he performs in our life. The birth of children in our
homes, the sun rise the moon rise and the wind comes from God out of Love
albert

_________________________________________________________________
Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports,
photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx
Nasci Caldeira
2007-01-04 01:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Albert,

This is the first time, and your first posting that is
written properly and meaningful; also it is written
with content appropriate to the 'Topic in the Subject
Line'. "Miracles"

However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that! I also have attended Catholic
Charismatic services in Goa, Bombay and in Melbourne.
I was initiated at the Retreat House in Goa in a five
day 'live in' retreat. So I know what you are talking
about. However we should remember that in all things,
we can get 'carried away'; and thereby a lot of false
support and obsession does lead to false charities and
other sly 'money making business'!

The fathers from POTA have been to Melbourne and
Sydney several times and gone back with a lot of
donations (money)for their worthy cause.
We in Australia have never questioned their use or
disbursement of this money! All in good Faith! Have
you audited or ascertained about the POTA accounts or
questioned them? Yet you are sitting in judgement over
how funds etc are used in Goa, by Priests and others.
You should know that all Church money and property are
controlled and managed by the Parish Council by
whatever name! And almost always the Communidade
Gaunkars are in control of the Parish Councils in Goa!
So it these people who should be questioned by you and
not just the priests and other clergy. I know of
Parish Priests being transferred or spoken ill of, by
these Parish Councils when they do not have it their
way!

And YOU sat in judgement on Priests under a heading
and subject line that was the 'all important and
appropriate "Archbishop's Address".

Like Mario has told you nicely, I now like to tell you
again to write under the apropriate subject line
Heading! If you wish to talk/ comment on priests and
the clergy, fine, or on the monies and so on, fine;
but please do so under a suject line heading titled,
say: Clergy and Religion in Goa". You will have a lot
of support in such a debate, if you write 'sense' of
course! You /we must also 'learn' to stick to the
subject line Heading and not go 'off on a tangent',
for any debate to be more meaningful! OK??
Please do not respond to me as a person if you have
to; but respond to the 'issues' I have raised, OK?

Mog assundi!

Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne, Down Under!
Post by Albert Desouza
Dear Selma
One must not wait for the church to declare a
miracle. Everyday a miracle
does take place in your life.
Etc Etc Etc!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Mario Goveia
2007-01-04 15:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidyadhar Gadgil
Dear Albert,
This is the first time, and your first posting that
is written properly and meaningful; also it is
written with content appropriate to the 'Topic in
the Subject Line'. "Miracles"
However that does not mean that Selma's posting, to
which you are responding, is in anyway wrong! Selma
has written sensibly and accurately and you should
take note of that!
Mario adds:
It may be useful here to discuss a "miracle" is.
My understanding is that a miracle is an extraordinary
event for which there is no clear cut scientific
explanation. These are by their nature few and far
between. The religious then ascribe these to divine
intervention, whereas the non-religious may call it an
anomaly.
To a religious person like me calling almost anything
unusual a miracle - "Miracles happen every day" - is
to devalue a real miracle if and when it does happen.
In addition, the notion that miracles are more likely
to happen in certain places where miracles may have
happened previously should make no sense especially to
a truly religious person. For example, can any
religious person honestly believe that Our Lady has
any more allegiance to Lourdes or Fatima than to my
ancestral village grandiosely named Salvador do Mundo,
where the only "miraculous" event is that my family
hails from there?:-))
The last part is a joke, Cornel, as indicated by the
smiley face. No need to write a lengthy thesis on the
grammatical dissonance of this being a miracle.
Continue reading on narkive:
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