Discussion:
Re: Review on the Reviewer
(too old to reply)
gilbertlaw
2006-04-23 15:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Re: Review on "Holy Warriors" by Edna Fernandes

Victor makes several important points. I have not read the original book. Yet as Victor points out, I have written books, non-scientific and scientific articles, which have been published. Hence, I have dealt with many reviewers and commentators.

Firstly, a book or article is not written for the reviewers. The reviewer ("supposedly" expert) has to keep in mind the target audience of the book and not his / her PERCEPTION of what the script is /should cover. Books are written to re-emphasize the known (and this introduction should help the good reviewers) and further explore FROM the writer's perspective (NOT the reviewer's) what is the impact of the material/ article/ data that is being written about.

If the reviewer cannot understand and expand on these aspects, I question the IQ of the reviewer. Of course I'd expect the reviewer to outline the limitations of the work, if the author had not done so in the prologue or epilogue. Any writer embarks on the writing effort in order to FILL a perceived VOID in the understanding (at whatever level). The writing is NOT undertaken to exploit the readers and make money. In fact in many cases the writing is undertaken with full understanding that there is no reimbursement. Yet the ignorance out there (including the reviewers) motivates the writer(s).

The book / article is the writer's work. Reviewers can write their own book to emphasize what he / she considers important rather than being a free-loader on someone else's work. If the reviewer is PRATAP BHANU MEHTA and the writer is EDNA FERNANDES, the reviewer should APPRECIATE the perspectives of a minority-group writer. Her script reflects some ASPECTS of the minority group persecuted by the dominant religious-fanatic groups. None of this came out in the review. This in itself reflects the ignorance and arrogance of the reviewer, (not uncommon mistake), whatsoever may his ethnic background.

I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL

---- VRANGELRIB at AOL.COM wrote:

Gilbert Lawrence wants the reviewer to be kinder to the author. But a reviewer's primary task is to be fair, not necessarily to be kind. Like Gilbert, I too am a published author, with two books of fiction to my credit, and five or six on specialized aspects of Western classical music. All I ask of my reviewers is that they be fair.
For crying out loud, couldn't the reviewer be kinder to this book and its author?
He tried to claw his way up by stomping on someone else's efforts.
REVIEW : While Fernandes' heart is in the right place, the result is a rather superficial book that perplexes more than it illuminates.
George Pinto
2006-04-24 04:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, you did not choose
to publicly apologize to Avelino after assuming he wrote a less than flattering review of Edna
Fernandes' book. He did not write the review and your comments should have been withdrawn.
Instead, you make some incoherent post-hoc comments about Goans reviewing Goan books, how
reviewers should review, and amazingly how Avelino should have written a review instead of
forwarding one. Please zip your trousers (privately) and email us YOUR review of the book.

Regards,
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
gilbertlaw
2006-04-24 14:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Avelino,
Thanks for your additional excerpt which gives a totally different perspective to "Holy Warrior."
Amazing and this has been my experience, "It's the same book, yet totally different perspectives". So much for "fairness."
Another experience of mine, "more confident, sophisticated and well read the reviewer, the kinder and intelligent the remarks."
NOT UNLIKE those one sees on cyberGoa.:=))
Sorry for giving you "credit" for writing the review the was posted.
Kind Regards, GL

---- "D'Souza wrote:
Here is an excerpt from one of the links I forwarded along with the review:

'The cancer of religious bigotry and intolerance has afflicted all communities-Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. This is vividly brought out in Edna Fernandes's powerful book. Holy Warriors is as fair and objective an assessment of the perils that lie ahead for India as any that I have ever read. It is a must for all of those who wish this country to prosper as a secular democracy.' -Khushwant Singh
gilbertlaw
2006-04-25 13:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi George,
As usual, you get so base in your response and personal attacks. I hope your post does not reflect where your mind is!

Do I owe Avelino an apology?
Yes I did think he wrote the review. And I noticed Mario made the same judgement call, and very likely Victor.
I did apologize to Avelino for giving him "credit" for the poor review that he first forwarded / posted.

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
You and others (except Elisabeth) are attacking me, instead of Mehta's review on the "Holy Warrior."

I am only making these points, as you raised the issue; not to confront you, Avelino or a Goan web site.
My characterizations of the "Mehta review" that was posted still stands, notwithstanding that it was not written by a Goan.

Please spare us your tasteless language. I hope you can write up to your professional standards. Cyber-Goans deserve better.
Kind Regards, GL

---- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, .....
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
George Pinto
2006-04-25 16:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

You cannot write about Goan ayatollahs, wading in boots through some Goan posts and write
negatively of "Goan character" and not expect a taste of your own medicine. I am glad you made an
apology to the good Avelino.

Regards,
George
D'Souza, Avelino
2006-04-26 05:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

Mehta's review is the first review of Edna's "Holy Warriors". The
"praiseworthy review" what you are talking about is from the publisher's
site. As you know, all publishers will carry praise-worthy comments
about their product on their site; it is in their interest to sell the
book and cover up the cost.

What's wrong in posting reviews which are reviewed in depth by the likes
of Pratap Mehta, who is the president and Chief Executive, Centre for
Policy Research, New Delhi, author of The Burdens of Democracy and
Public Institutions in India: Performance and Design? He is also a
prolific contributor to public debates and his columns have regularly
appeared in The New Republic, Foreign Policy, The Hindu, Indian Express,
Telegraph, Yale Global, and numerous other papers.

Am I being non supportive for posting real reviews of Goan authors?


Avelino

_________

gilbertlaw at adelphia.net wrote:

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its
entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
gilbertlaw
2006-04-23 15:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Re: Review on "Holy Warriors" by Edna Fernandes

Victor makes several important points. I have not read the original book. Yet as Victor points out, I have written books, non-scientific and scientific articles, which have been published. Hence, I have dealt with many reviewers and commentators.

Firstly, a book or article is not written for the reviewers. The reviewer ("supposedly" expert) has to keep in mind the target audience of the book and not his / her PERCEPTION of what the script is /should cover. Books are written to re-emphasize the known (and this introduction should help the good reviewers) and further explore FROM the writer's perspective (NOT the reviewer's) what is the impact of the material/ article/ data that is being written about.

If the reviewer cannot understand and expand on these aspects, I question the IQ of the reviewer. Of course I'd expect the reviewer to outline the limitations of the work, if the author had not done so in the prologue or epilogue. Any writer embarks on the writing effort in order to FILL a perceived VOID in the understanding (at whatever level). The writing is NOT undertaken to exploit the readers and make money. In fact in many cases the writing is undertaken with full understanding that there is no reimbursement. Yet the ignorance out there (including the reviewers) motivates the writer(s).

The book / article is the writer's work. Reviewers can write their own book to emphasize what he / she considers important rather than being a free-loader on someone else's work. If the reviewer is PRATAP BHANU MEHTA and the writer is EDNA FERNANDES, the reviewer should APPRECIATE the perspectives of a minority-group writer. Her script reflects some ASPECTS of the minority group persecuted by the dominant religious-fanatic groups. None of this came out in the review. This in itself reflects the ignorance and arrogance of the reviewer, (not uncommon mistake), whatsoever may his ethnic background.

I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL

---- VRANGELRIB at AOL.COM wrote:

Gilbert Lawrence wants the reviewer to be kinder to the author. But a reviewer's primary task is to be fair, not necessarily to be kind. Like Gilbert, I too am a published author, with two books of fiction to my credit, and five or six on specialized aspects of Western classical music. All I ask of my reviewers is that they be fair.
For crying out loud, couldn't the reviewer be kinder to this book and its author?
He tried to claw his way up by stomping on someone else's efforts.
REVIEW : While Fernandes' heart is in the right place, the result is a rather superficial book that perplexes more than it illuminates.
George Pinto
2006-04-24 04:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, you did not choose
to publicly apologize to Avelino after assuming he wrote a less than flattering review of Edna
Fernandes' book. He did not write the review and your comments should have been withdrawn.
Instead, you make some incoherent post-hoc comments about Goans reviewing Goan books, how
reviewers should review, and amazingly how Avelino should have written a review instead of
forwarding one. Please zip your trousers (privately) and email us YOUR review of the book.

Regards,
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
gilbertlaw
2006-04-24 14:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Avelino,
Thanks for your additional excerpt which gives a totally different perspective to "Holy Warrior."
Amazing and this has been my experience, "It's the same book, yet totally different perspectives". So much for "fairness."
Another experience of mine, "more confident, sophisticated and well read the reviewer, the kinder and intelligent the remarks."
NOT UNLIKE those one sees on cyberGoa.:=))
Sorry for giving you "credit" for writing the review the was posted.
Kind Regards, GL

---- "D'Souza wrote:
Here is an excerpt from one of the links I forwarded along with the review:

'The cancer of religious bigotry and intolerance has afflicted all communities-Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. This is vividly brought out in Edna Fernandes's powerful book. Holy Warriors is as fair and objective an assessment of the perils that lie ahead for India as any that I have ever read. It is a must for all of those who wish this country to prosper as a secular democracy.' -Khushwant Singh
gilbertlaw
2006-04-25 13:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi George,
As usual, you get so base in your response and personal attacks. I hope your post does not reflect where your mind is!

Do I owe Avelino an apology?
Yes I did think he wrote the review. And I noticed Mario made the same judgement call, and very likely Victor.
I did apologize to Avelino for giving him "credit" for the poor review that he first forwarded / posted.

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
You and others (except Elisabeth) are attacking me, instead of Mehta's review on the "Holy Warrior."

I am only making these points, as you raised the issue; not to confront you, Avelino or a Goan web site.
My characterizations of the "Mehta review" that was posted still stands, notwithstanding that it was not written by a Goan.

Please spare us your tasteless language. I hope you can write up to your professional standards. Cyber-Goans deserve better.
Kind Regards, GL

---- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, .....
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
George Pinto
2006-04-25 16:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

You cannot write about Goan ayatollahs, wading in boots through some Goan posts and write
negatively of "Goan character" and not expect a taste of your own medicine. I am glad you made an
apology to the good Avelino.

Regards,
George
D'Souza, Avelino
2006-04-26 05:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

Mehta's review is the first review of Edna's "Holy Warriors". The
"praiseworthy review" what you are talking about is from the publisher's
site. As you know, all publishers will carry praise-worthy comments
about their product on their site; it is in their interest to sell the
book and cover up the cost.

What's wrong in posting reviews which are reviewed in depth by the likes
of Pratap Mehta, who is the president and Chief Executive, Centre for
Policy Research, New Delhi, author of The Burdens of Democracy and
Public Institutions in India: Performance and Design? He is also a
prolific contributor to public debates and his columns have regularly
appeared in The New Republic, Foreign Policy, The Hindu, Indian Express,
Telegraph, Yale Global, and numerous other papers.

Am I being non supportive for posting real reviews of Goan authors?


Avelino

_________

gilbertlaw at adelphia.net wrote:

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its
entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
gilbertlaw
2006-04-23 15:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Re: Review on "Holy Warriors" by Edna Fernandes

Victor makes several important points. I have not read the original book. Yet as Victor points out, I have written books, non-scientific and scientific articles, which have been published. Hence, I have dealt with many reviewers and commentators.

Firstly, a book or article is not written for the reviewers. The reviewer ("supposedly" expert) has to keep in mind the target audience of the book and not his / her PERCEPTION of what the script is /should cover. Books are written to re-emphasize the known (and this introduction should help the good reviewers) and further explore FROM the writer's perspective (NOT the reviewer's) what is the impact of the material/ article/ data that is being written about.

If the reviewer cannot understand and expand on these aspects, I question the IQ of the reviewer. Of course I'd expect the reviewer to outline the limitations of the work, if the author had not done so in the prologue or epilogue. Any writer embarks on the writing effort in order to FILL a perceived VOID in the understanding (at whatever level). The writing is NOT undertaken to exploit the readers and make money. In fact in many cases the writing is undertaken with full understanding that there is no reimbursement. Yet the ignorance out there (including the reviewers) motivates the writer(s).

The book / article is the writer's work. Reviewers can write their own book to emphasize what he / she considers important rather than being a free-loader on someone else's work. If the reviewer is PRATAP BHANU MEHTA and the writer is EDNA FERNANDES, the reviewer should APPRECIATE the perspectives of a minority-group writer. Her script reflects some ASPECTS of the minority group persecuted by the dominant religious-fanatic groups. None of this came out in the review. This in itself reflects the ignorance and arrogance of the reviewer, (not uncommon mistake), whatsoever may his ethnic background.

I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL

---- VRANGELRIB at AOL.COM wrote:

Gilbert Lawrence wants the reviewer to be kinder to the author. But a reviewer's primary task is to be fair, not necessarily to be kind. Like Gilbert, I too am a published author, with two books of fiction to my credit, and five or six on specialized aspects of Western classical music. All I ask of my reviewers is that they be fair.
For crying out loud, couldn't the reviewer be kinder to this book and its author?
He tried to claw his way up by stomping on someone else's efforts.
REVIEW : While Fernandes' heart is in the right place, the result is a rather superficial book that perplexes more than it illuminates.
George Pinto
2006-04-24 04:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, you did not choose
to publicly apologize to Avelino after assuming he wrote a less than flattering review of Edna
Fernandes' book. He did not write the review and your comments should have been withdrawn.
Instead, you make some incoherent post-hoc comments about Goans reviewing Goan books, how
reviewers should review, and amazingly how Avelino should have written a review instead of
forwarding one. Please zip your trousers (privately) and email us YOUR review of the book.

Regards,
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
gilbertlaw
2006-04-24 14:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Avelino,
Thanks for your additional excerpt which gives a totally different perspective to "Holy Warrior."
Amazing and this has been my experience, "It's the same book, yet totally different perspectives". So much for "fairness."
Another experience of mine, "more confident, sophisticated and well read the reviewer, the kinder and intelligent the remarks."
NOT UNLIKE those one sees on cyberGoa.:=))
Sorry for giving you "credit" for writing the review the was posted.
Kind Regards, GL

---- "D'Souza wrote:
Here is an excerpt from one of the links I forwarded along with the review:

'The cancer of religious bigotry and intolerance has afflicted all communities-Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. This is vividly brought out in Edna Fernandes's powerful book. Holy Warriors is as fair and objective an assessment of the perils that lie ahead for India as any that I have ever read. It is a must for all of those who wish this country to prosper as a secular democracy.' -Khushwant Singh
gilbertlaw
2006-04-25 13:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi George,
As usual, you get so base in your response and personal attacks. I hope your post does not reflect where your mind is!

Do I owe Avelino an apology?
Yes I did think he wrote the review. And I noticed Mario made the same judgement call, and very likely Victor.
I did apologize to Avelino for giving him "credit" for the poor review that he first forwarded / posted.

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
You and others (except Elisabeth) are attacking me, instead of Mehta's review on the "Holy Warrior."

I am only making these points, as you raised the issue; not to confront you, Avelino or a Goan web site.
My characterizations of the "Mehta review" that was posted still stands, notwithstanding that it was not written by a Goan.

Please spare us your tasteless language. I hope you can write up to your professional standards. Cyber-Goans deserve better.
Kind Regards, GL

---- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, .....
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
George Pinto
2006-04-25 16:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

You cannot write about Goan ayatollahs, wading in boots through some Goan posts and write
negatively of "Goan character" and not expect a taste of your own medicine. I am glad you made an
apology to the good Avelino.

Regards,
George
D'Souza, Avelino
2006-04-26 05:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

Mehta's review is the first review of Edna's "Holy Warriors". The
"praiseworthy review" what you are talking about is from the publisher's
site. As you know, all publishers will carry praise-worthy comments
about their product on their site; it is in their interest to sell the
book and cover up the cost.

What's wrong in posting reviews which are reviewed in depth by the likes
of Pratap Mehta, who is the president and Chief Executive, Centre for
Policy Research, New Delhi, author of The Burdens of Democracy and
Public Institutions in India: Performance and Design? He is also a
prolific contributor to public debates and his columns have regularly
appeared in The New Republic, Foreign Policy, The Hindu, Indian Express,
Telegraph, Yale Global, and numerous other papers.

Am I being non supportive for posting real reviews of Goan authors?


Avelino

_________

gilbertlaw at adelphia.net wrote:

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its
entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
gilbertlaw
2006-04-23 15:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Re: Review on "Holy Warriors" by Edna Fernandes

Victor makes several important points. I have not read the original book. Yet as Victor points out, I have written books, non-scientific and scientific articles, which have been published. Hence, I have dealt with many reviewers and commentators.

Firstly, a book or article is not written for the reviewers. The reviewer ("supposedly" expert) has to keep in mind the target audience of the book and not his / her PERCEPTION of what the script is /should cover. Books are written to re-emphasize the known (and this introduction should help the good reviewers) and further explore FROM the writer's perspective (NOT the reviewer's) what is the impact of the material/ article/ data that is being written about.

If the reviewer cannot understand and expand on these aspects, I question the IQ of the reviewer. Of course I'd expect the reviewer to outline the limitations of the work, if the author had not done so in the prologue or epilogue. Any writer embarks on the writing effort in order to FILL a perceived VOID in the understanding (at whatever level). The writing is NOT undertaken to exploit the readers and make money. In fact in many cases the writing is undertaken with full understanding that there is no reimbursement. Yet the ignorance out there (including the reviewers) motivates the writer(s).

The book / article is the writer's work. Reviewers can write their own book to emphasize what he / she considers important rather than being a free-loader on someone else's work. If the reviewer is PRATAP BHANU MEHTA and the writer is EDNA FERNANDES, the reviewer should APPRECIATE the perspectives of a minority-group writer. Her script reflects some ASPECTS of the minority group persecuted by the dominant religious-fanatic groups. None of this came out in the review. This in itself reflects the ignorance and arrogance of the reviewer, (not uncommon mistake), whatsoever may his ethnic background.

I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL

---- VRANGELRIB at AOL.COM wrote:

Gilbert Lawrence wants the reviewer to be kinder to the author. But a reviewer's primary task is to be fair, not necessarily to be kind. Like Gilbert, I too am a published author, with two books of fiction to my credit, and five or six on specialized aspects of Western classical music. All I ask of my reviewers is that they be fair.
For crying out loud, couldn't the reviewer be kinder to this book and its author?
He tried to claw his way up by stomping on someone else's efforts.
REVIEW : While Fernandes' heart is in the right place, the result is a rather superficial book that perplexes more than it illuminates.
George Pinto
2006-04-24 04:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, you did not choose
to publicly apologize to Avelino after assuming he wrote a less than flattering review of Edna
Fernandes' book. He did not write the review and your comments should have been withdrawn.
Instead, you make some incoherent post-hoc comments about Goans reviewing Goan books, how
reviewers should review, and amazingly how Avelino should have written a review instead of
forwarding one. Please zip your trousers (privately) and email us YOUR review of the book.

Regards,
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
gilbertlaw
2006-04-24 14:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Avelino,
Thanks for your additional excerpt which gives a totally different perspective to "Holy Warrior."
Amazing and this has been my experience, "It's the same book, yet totally different perspectives". So much for "fairness."
Another experience of mine, "more confident, sophisticated and well read the reviewer, the kinder and intelligent the remarks."
NOT UNLIKE those one sees on cyberGoa.:=))
Sorry for giving you "credit" for writing the review the was posted.
Kind Regards, GL

---- "D'Souza wrote:
Here is an excerpt from one of the links I forwarded along with the review:

'The cancer of religious bigotry and intolerance has afflicted all communities-Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. This is vividly brought out in Edna Fernandes's powerful book. Holy Warriors is as fair and objective an assessment of the perils that lie ahead for India as any that I have ever read. It is a must for all of those who wish this country to prosper as a secular democracy.' -Khushwant Singh
gilbertlaw
2006-04-25 13:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi George,
As usual, you get so base in your response and personal attacks. I hope your post does not reflect where your mind is!

Do I owe Avelino an apology?
Yes I did think he wrote the review. And I noticed Mario made the same judgement call, and very likely Victor.
I did apologize to Avelino for giving him "credit" for the poor review that he first forwarded / posted.

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
You and others (except Elisabeth) are attacking me, instead of Mehta's review on the "Holy Warrior."

I am only making these points, as you raised the issue; not to confront you, Avelino or a Goan web site.
My characterizations of the "Mehta review" that was posted still stands, notwithstanding that it was not written by a Goan.

Please spare us your tasteless language. I hope you can write up to your professional standards. Cyber-Goans deserve better.
Kind Regards, GL

---- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, .....
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
George Pinto
2006-04-25 16:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

You cannot write about Goan ayatollahs, wading in boots through some Goan posts and write
negatively of "Goan character" and not expect a taste of your own medicine. I am glad you made an
apology to the good Avelino.

Regards,
George
D'Souza, Avelino
2006-04-26 05:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

Mehta's review is the first review of Edna's "Holy Warriors". The
"praiseworthy review" what you are talking about is from the publisher's
site. As you know, all publishers will carry praise-worthy comments
about their product on their site; it is in their interest to sell the
book and cover up the cost.

What's wrong in posting reviews which are reviewed in depth by the likes
of Pratap Mehta, who is the president and Chief Executive, Centre for
Policy Research, New Delhi, author of The Burdens of Democracy and
Public Institutions in India: Performance and Design? He is also a
prolific contributor to public debates and his columns have regularly
appeared in The New Republic, Foreign Policy, The Hindu, Indian Express,
Telegraph, Yale Global, and numerous other papers.

Am I being non supportive for posting real reviews of Goan authors?


Avelino

_________

gilbertlaw at adelphia.net wrote:

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its
entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
gilbertlaw
2006-04-23 15:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Re: Review on "Holy Warriors" by Edna Fernandes

Victor makes several important points. I have not read the original book. Yet as Victor points out, I have written books, non-scientific and scientific articles, which have been published. Hence, I have dealt with many reviewers and commentators.

Firstly, a book or article is not written for the reviewers. The reviewer ("supposedly" expert) has to keep in mind the target audience of the book and not his / her PERCEPTION of what the script is /should cover. Books are written to re-emphasize the known (and this introduction should help the good reviewers) and further explore FROM the writer's perspective (NOT the reviewer's) what is the impact of the material/ article/ data that is being written about.

If the reviewer cannot understand and expand on these aspects, I question the IQ of the reviewer. Of course I'd expect the reviewer to outline the limitations of the work, if the author had not done so in the prologue or epilogue. Any writer embarks on the writing effort in order to FILL a perceived VOID in the understanding (at whatever level). The writing is NOT undertaken to exploit the readers and make money. In fact in many cases the writing is undertaken with full understanding that there is no reimbursement. Yet the ignorance out there (including the reviewers) motivates the writer(s).

The book / article is the writer's work. Reviewers can write their own book to emphasize what he / she considers important rather than being a free-loader on someone else's work. If the reviewer is PRATAP BHANU MEHTA and the writer is EDNA FERNANDES, the reviewer should APPRECIATE the perspectives of a minority-group writer. Her script reflects some ASPECTS of the minority group persecuted by the dominant religious-fanatic groups. None of this came out in the review. This in itself reflects the ignorance and arrogance of the reviewer, (not uncommon mistake), whatsoever may his ethnic background.

I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL

---- VRANGELRIB at AOL.COM wrote:

Gilbert Lawrence wants the reviewer to be kinder to the author. But a reviewer's primary task is to be fair, not necessarily to be kind. Like Gilbert, I too am a published author, with two books of fiction to my credit, and five or six on specialized aspects of Western classical music. All I ask of my reviewers is that they be fair.
For crying out loud, couldn't the reviewer be kinder to this book and its author?
He tried to claw his way up by stomping on someone else's efforts.
REVIEW : While Fernandes' heart is in the right place, the result is a rather superficial book that perplexes more than it illuminates.
George Pinto
2006-04-24 04:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, you did not choose
to publicly apologize to Avelino after assuming he wrote a less than flattering review of Edna
Fernandes' book. He did not write the review and your comments should have been withdrawn.
Instead, you make some incoherent post-hoc comments about Goans reviewing Goan books, how
reviewers should review, and amazingly how Avelino should have written a review instead of
forwarding one. Please zip your trousers (privately) and email us YOUR review of the book.

Regards,
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
gilbertlaw
2006-04-24 14:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Avelino,
Thanks for your additional excerpt which gives a totally different perspective to "Holy Warrior."
Amazing and this has been my experience, "It's the same book, yet totally different perspectives". So much for "fairness."
Another experience of mine, "more confident, sophisticated and well read the reviewer, the kinder and intelligent the remarks."
NOT UNLIKE those one sees on cyberGoa.:=))
Sorry for giving you "credit" for writing the review the was posted.
Kind Regards, GL

---- "D'Souza wrote:
Here is an excerpt from one of the links I forwarded along with the review:

'The cancer of religious bigotry and intolerance has afflicted all communities-Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. This is vividly brought out in Edna Fernandes's powerful book. Holy Warriors is as fair and objective an assessment of the perils that lie ahead for India as any that I have ever read. It is a must for all of those who wish this country to prosper as a secular democracy.' -Khushwant Singh
gilbertlaw
2006-04-25 13:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi George,
As usual, you get so base in your response and personal attacks. I hope your post does not reflect where your mind is!

Do I owe Avelino an apology?
Yes I did think he wrote the review. And I noticed Mario made the same judgement call, and very likely Victor.
I did apologize to Avelino for giving him "credit" for the poor review that he first forwarded / posted.

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
You and others (except Elisabeth) are attacking me, instead of Mehta's review on the "Holy Warrior."

I am only making these points, as you raised the issue; not to confront you, Avelino or a Goan web site.
My characterizations of the "Mehta review" that was posted still stands, notwithstanding that it was not written by a Goan.

Please spare us your tasteless language. I hope you can write up to your professional standards. Cyber-Goans deserve better.
Kind Regards, GL

---- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, .....
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
George Pinto
2006-04-25 16:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

You cannot write about Goan ayatollahs, wading in boots through some Goan posts and write
negatively of "Goan character" and not expect a taste of your own medicine. I am glad you made an
apology to the good Avelino.

Regards,
George
D'Souza, Avelino
2006-04-26 05:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

Mehta's review is the first review of Edna's "Holy Warriors". The
"praiseworthy review" what you are talking about is from the publisher's
site. As you know, all publishers will carry praise-worthy comments
about their product on their site; it is in their interest to sell the
book and cover up the cost.

What's wrong in posting reviews which are reviewed in depth by the likes
of Pratap Mehta, who is the president and Chief Executive, Centre for
Policy Research, New Delhi, author of The Burdens of Democracy and
Public Institutions in India: Performance and Design? He is also a
prolific contributor to public debates and his columns have regularly
appeared in The New Republic, Foreign Policy, The Hindu, Indian Express,
Telegraph, Yale Global, and numerous other papers.

Am I being non supportive for posting real reviews of Goan authors?


Avelino

_________

gilbertlaw at adelphia.net wrote:

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its
entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
gilbertlaw
2006-04-23 15:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Re: Review on "Holy Warriors" by Edna Fernandes

Victor makes several important points. I have not read the original book. Yet as Victor points out, I have written books, non-scientific and scientific articles, which have been published. Hence, I have dealt with many reviewers and commentators.

Firstly, a book or article is not written for the reviewers. The reviewer ("supposedly" expert) has to keep in mind the target audience of the book and not his / her PERCEPTION of what the script is /should cover. Books are written to re-emphasize the known (and this introduction should help the good reviewers) and further explore FROM the writer's perspective (NOT the reviewer's) what is the impact of the material/ article/ data that is being written about.

If the reviewer cannot understand and expand on these aspects, I question the IQ of the reviewer. Of course I'd expect the reviewer to outline the limitations of the work, if the author had not done so in the prologue or epilogue. Any writer embarks on the writing effort in order to FILL a perceived VOID in the understanding (at whatever level). The writing is NOT undertaken to exploit the readers and make money. In fact in many cases the writing is undertaken with full understanding that there is no reimbursement. Yet the ignorance out there (including the reviewers) motivates the writer(s).

The book / article is the writer's work. Reviewers can write their own book to emphasize what he / she considers important rather than being a free-loader on someone else's work. If the reviewer is PRATAP BHANU MEHTA and the writer is EDNA FERNANDES, the reviewer should APPRECIATE the perspectives of a minority-group writer. Her script reflects some ASPECTS of the minority group persecuted by the dominant religious-fanatic groups. None of this came out in the review. This in itself reflects the ignorance and arrogance of the reviewer, (not uncommon mistake), whatsoever may his ethnic background.

I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL

---- VRANGELRIB at AOL.COM wrote:

Gilbert Lawrence wants the reviewer to be kinder to the author. But a reviewer's primary task is to be fair, not necessarily to be kind. Like Gilbert, I too am a published author, with two books of fiction to my credit, and five or six on specialized aspects of Western classical music. All I ask of my reviewers is that they be fair.
For crying out loud, couldn't the reviewer be kinder to this book and its author?
He tried to claw his way up by stomping on someone else's efforts.
REVIEW : While Fernandes' heart is in the right place, the result is a rather superficial book that perplexes more than it illuminates.
George Pinto
2006-04-24 04:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, you did not choose
to publicly apologize to Avelino after assuming he wrote a less than flattering review of Edna
Fernandes' book. He did not write the review and your comments should have been withdrawn.
Instead, you make some incoherent post-hoc comments about Goans reviewing Goan books, how
reviewers should review, and amazingly how Avelino should have written a review instead of
forwarding one. Please zip your trousers (privately) and email us YOUR review of the book.

Regards,
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
gilbertlaw
2006-04-24 14:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Avelino,
Thanks for your additional excerpt which gives a totally different perspective to "Holy Warrior."
Amazing and this has been my experience, "It's the same book, yet totally different perspectives". So much for "fairness."
Another experience of mine, "more confident, sophisticated and well read the reviewer, the kinder and intelligent the remarks."
NOT UNLIKE those one sees on cyberGoa.:=))
Sorry for giving you "credit" for writing the review the was posted.
Kind Regards, GL

---- "D'Souza wrote:
Here is an excerpt from one of the links I forwarded along with the review:

'The cancer of religious bigotry and intolerance has afflicted all communities-Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. This is vividly brought out in Edna Fernandes's powerful book. Holy Warriors is as fair and objective an assessment of the perils that lie ahead for India as any that I have ever read. It is a must for all of those who wish this country to prosper as a secular democracy.' -Khushwant Singh
gilbertlaw
2006-04-25 13:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi George,
As usual, you get so base in your response and personal attacks. I hope your post does not reflect where your mind is!

Do I owe Avelino an apology?
Yes I did think he wrote the review. And I noticed Mario made the same judgement call, and very likely Victor.
I did apologize to Avelino for giving him "credit" for the poor review that he first forwarded / posted.

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
You and others (except Elisabeth) are attacking me, instead of Mehta's review on the "Holy Warrior."

I am only making these points, as you raised the issue; not to confront you, Avelino or a Goan web site.
My characterizations of the "Mehta review" that was posted still stands, notwithstanding that it was not written by a Goan.

Please spare us your tasteless language. I hope you can write up to your professional standards. Cyber-Goans deserve better.
Kind Regards, GL

---- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, .....
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
George Pinto
2006-04-25 16:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

You cannot write about Goan ayatollahs, wading in boots through some Goan posts and write
negatively of "Goan character" and not expect a taste of your own medicine. I am glad you made an
apology to the good Avelino.

Regards,
George
D'Souza, Avelino
2006-04-26 05:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

Mehta's review is the first review of Edna's "Holy Warriors". The
"praiseworthy review" what you are talking about is from the publisher's
site. As you know, all publishers will carry praise-worthy comments
about their product on their site; it is in their interest to sell the
book and cover up the cost.

What's wrong in posting reviews which are reviewed in depth by the likes
of Pratap Mehta, who is the president and Chief Executive, Centre for
Policy Research, New Delhi, author of The Burdens of Democracy and
Public Institutions in India: Performance and Design? He is also a
prolific contributor to public debates and his columns have regularly
appeared in The New Republic, Foreign Policy, The Hindu, Indian Express,
Telegraph, Yale Global, and numerous other papers.

Am I being non supportive for posting real reviews of Goan authors?


Avelino

_________

gilbertlaw at adelphia.net wrote:

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its
entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
gilbertlaw
2006-04-23 15:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Re: Review on "Holy Warriors" by Edna Fernandes

Victor makes several important points. I have not read the original book. Yet as Victor points out, I have written books, non-scientific and scientific articles, which have been published. Hence, I have dealt with many reviewers and commentators.

Firstly, a book or article is not written for the reviewers. The reviewer ("supposedly" expert) has to keep in mind the target audience of the book and not his / her PERCEPTION of what the script is /should cover. Books are written to re-emphasize the known (and this introduction should help the good reviewers) and further explore FROM the writer's perspective (NOT the reviewer's) what is the impact of the material/ article/ data that is being written about.

If the reviewer cannot understand and expand on these aspects, I question the IQ of the reviewer. Of course I'd expect the reviewer to outline the limitations of the work, if the author had not done so in the prologue or epilogue. Any writer embarks on the writing effort in order to FILL a perceived VOID in the understanding (at whatever level). The writing is NOT undertaken to exploit the readers and make money. In fact in many cases the writing is undertaken with full understanding that there is no reimbursement. Yet the ignorance out there (including the reviewers) motivates the writer(s).

The book / article is the writer's work. Reviewers can write their own book to emphasize what he / she considers important rather than being a free-loader on someone else's work. If the reviewer is PRATAP BHANU MEHTA and the writer is EDNA FERNANDES, the reviewer should APPRECIATE the perspectives of a minority-group writer. Her script reflects some ASPECTS of the minority group persecuted by the dominant religious-fanatic groups. None of this came out in the review. This in itself reflects the ignorance and arrogance of the reviewer, (not uncommon mistake), whatsoever may his ethnic background.

I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL

---- VRANGELRIB at AOL.COM wrote:

Gilbert Lawrence wants the reviewer to be kinder to the author. But a reviewer's primary task is to be fair, not necessarily to be kind. Like Gilbert, I too am a published author, with two books of fiction to my credit, and five or six on specialized aspects of Western classical music. All I ask of my reviewers is that they be fair.
For crying out loud, couldn't the reviewer be kinder to this book and its author?
He tried to claw his way up by stomping on someone else's efforts.
REVIEW : While Fernandes' heart is in the right place, the result is a rather superficial book that perplexes more than it illuminates.
George Pinto
2006-04-24 04:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, you did not choose
to publicly apologize to Avelino after assuming he wrote a less than flattering review of Edna
Fernandes' book. He did not write the review and your comments should have been withdrawn.
Instead, you make some incoherent post-hoc comments about Goans reviewing Goan books, how
reviewers should review, and amazingly how Avelino should have written a review instead of
forwarding one. Please zip your trousers (privately) and email us YOUR review of the book.

Regards,
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
gilbertlaw
2006-04-24 14:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Avelino,
Thanks for your additional excerpt which gives a totally different perspective to "Holy Warrior."
Amazing and this has been my experience, "It's the same book, yet totally different perspectives". So much for "fairness."
Another experience of mine, "more confident, sophisticated and well read the reviewer, the kinder and intelligent the remarks."
NOT UNLIKE those one sees on cyberGoa.:=))
Sorry for giving you "credit" for writing the review the was posted.
Kind Regards, GL

---- "D'Souza wrote:
Here is an excerpt from one of the links I forwarded along with the review:

'The cancer of religious bigotry and intolerance has afflicted all communities-Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. This is vividly brought out in Edna Fernandes's powerful book. Holy Warriors is as fair and objective an assessment of the perils that lie ahead for India as any that I have ever read. It is a must for all of those who wish this country to prosper as a secular democracy.' -Khushwant Singh
gilbertlaw
2006-04-25 13:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi George,
As usual, you get so base in your response and personal attacks. I hope your post does not reflect where your mind is!

Do I owe Avelino an apology?
Yes I did think he wrote the review. And I noticed Mario made the same judgement call, and very likely Victor.
I did apologize to Avelino for giving him "credit" for the poor review that he first forwarded / posted.

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?
You and others (except Elisabeth) are attacking me, instead of Mehta's review on the "Holy Warrior."

I am only making these points, as you raised the issue; not to confront you, Avelino or a Goan web site.
My characterizations of the "Mehta review" that was posted still stands, notwithstanding that it was not written by a Goan.

Please spare us your tasteless language. I hope you can write up to your professional standards. Cyber-Goans deserve better.
Kind Regards, GL

---- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote:

I am a bit surprised that having been caught with your fly open in cyberspace, .....
George
Post by gilbertlaw
I hope this rather lengthy response will help and enable future reviewers on the STANDARDS of
good reviewers. For more details and reviewer pitfalls, please read my three-part article on
the "experience of writing 'On Thin Ice'" which appeared on Goanet.
Kind Regards, GL
George Pinto
2006-04-25 16:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

You cannot write about Goan ayatollahs, wading in boots through some Goan posts and write
negatively of "Goan character" and not expect a taste of your own medicine. I am glad you made an
apology to the good Avelino.

Regards,
George
D'Souza, Avelino
2006-04-26 05:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert,

Mehta's review is the first review of Edna's "Holy Warriors". The
"praiseworthy review" what you are talking about is from the publisher's
site. As you know, all publishers will carry praise-worthy comments
about their product on their site; it is in their interest to sell the
book and cover up the cost.

What's wrong in posting reviews which are reviewed in depth by the likes
of Pratap Mehta, who is the president and Chief Executive, Centre for
Policy Research, New Delhi, author of The Burdens of Democracy and
Public Institutions in India: Performance and Design? He is also a
prolific contributor to public debates and his columns have regularly
appeared in The New Republic, Foreign Policy, The Hindu, Indian Express,
Telegraph, Yale Global, and numerous other papers.

Am I being non supportive for posting real reviews of Goan authors?


Avelino

_________

gilbertlaw at adelphia.net wrote:

Is it not curious that a very unflattering review is posted in its
entirety on cyber-Goa?
And the praiseworthy review is only provided as a link?
Is this a Goan supporting another Goan's achievement?

Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...