Discussion:
Goanet Moderation
(too old to reply)
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-01 04:54:28 UTC
Permalink
To paraphrase an infamous clich?, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.



There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a
couple 'experts' in this field. Since Mervyn asked two 'simple' questions, I
will acquiesce to his request and provide some examples.



ALMOST (emphasis) every message rejected for posting on Goanet is afforded
an explanation and in many cases seen by more than one moderator, sometimes
three or more moderators. It is our experience that most of the rejected
posts are re-posted after the posters make amends based on the explanations
provided in the rejection notice. The remaining resort to private and public
lambasting and abuse of the moderator, me or Goanet Admin members in
general.



The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules. For eg. Mario Goveia. I have told him I will never give him an
explanation after hundreds of his messages have been rejected over the past
4 years (since he joined Goanet) and indulging him in scores of private
explanations. Has he improved his posting skills? I think he has in the past
few months but there is no guarantee that he will not go down that road
again.



Posters who have a propensity to send in flame-baits, abuse, name-calling,
often indulge in off-post topics, aggressively top/bottom-post, etc.
repeatedly will not be provided with an explanation after several
explanations have been given. There are 3-4 individuals who are consistent
with this behaviour. These guys cannot debate issues without attacking,
demeaning or abusing a fellow poster and will not follow the other simple
rules that have been laid out. These are the guys who are crowing at this
time.



Cornel's initial message on this thread exhibits elitism and is compounded
with ignorance. He cannot come to accept that some of his message(s) do not
conform to Goanet Rules. On another front, he periodically addresses me on
Goanet. He has been informed several times and fails to understand that if
he wants my attention to any administrative issues he has to address it to
goanet-admin <at> goanet.org or bosco <at> goanet.org Cornel would like
nothing but to belittle and abuse Fr Ivo, Gilbert Lawrence, Eric Pinto,
Mario Goveia, etc.in language that he thinks is appropriate but which
violates Goanet Rules and since he is unable to do so, is now suffering from
a bout of bafflegab!!!



The only reason that Miguel has resorted to flatter me over the past few
days is because I held his feet to the fire over the preceding few days in
an off-list discussion (that he alluded to), telling him not to include
entire original posts in his responses to Goanet. Miguel being Miguel will
not accept that his posts are violating any rules as he posts on several
mailing lists where such rules do not exist and he has free rein to do as he
pleases. He is also angry with some moderator(s) (perhaps me) who did not
allow him to respond to Rajan Parrikar 'in kind' earlier this summer. He
believes Rajan Parrikar slighted him publicly and he (Miguel) was denied an
opportunity to return the favour.



Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has
concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was
provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on
the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who
rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh
Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just
an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the
truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.



In a running exchange with a Goanetter (who shall remain nameless for now,
but is certainly reading this) last year, Mervyn Lobo and Gabe Menezes have
had several of their messages rejected last year alongwith some from the
nameless poster for consistently violating Goanet Rules. Again reasons were
given several times after which the messages were just rejected without
explanation. I never heard (directly or indirectly) of Gabe or Mervyn
conduct a campaign to vilify any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. Edward
who posts regularly has had many of his posts rejected; I don't see him
getting choleric at any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin.



If there is any other disgruntled poster out there, please step out from the
shadows. I will give you a reason why your posts are or were rejected if you
haven't got one already. And while you make the effort to identify yourself,
please tell us how many times you have knowingly tried to skirt the Rules
especially to verbally assault a fellow Goanetter?



There is a balance that moderators have to strike between free-speech and
abuse. As is sometimes the case with the same few individuals they cannot
bring it upon themselves to accept that their messages can be rejected.



Instead of focusing on the comments in the rejection notice, some posters
are more concerned about who the moderator was so that they can lynch
him/her verbally in Goan cyberspace. I know best, it has happened to me
several times and is still happening whether I am the moderator or not. If
they don't know who it is, an inquisition is conducted. Would it matter if a
moderator signed his name as Jose or Kamlakar or Caetan or Krishna?? The
problem is the offending message not the moderator. And if you feel you
received a raw deal at the hands of a moderator, please raise the issue with
Goanet Admin goanet-admin <at> goanet.org who have done everything they can
in the past and will do so in the future to afford everybody an opportunity
to share his/her perspective here on Goanet.



In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.



The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??



And yes, through some perspective or another Goanet moderation is always
perceived as biased to somebody or the other. With strong political
convictions some Goans that are pro-Congress are bound to see pro-BJP
posters have a free-hand and vice-versa. Or if its religion vs atheism vs
agnosticism, one group is often offended. Its human nature. If the posts we
see do not conform to our political leanings or religious beliefs, the
easiest thing to do is blame Goanet moderation and when Goanet moderators
reject the messages laden with tripe what happens...the posters turn on the
moderators!! And the circle begins again.....



Mervyn, I hope that was helpful..couldn't shorten it after the flurry of
messages that have been flying around, lots needed to be explained!!! Well,
standby for the reponse........



- Bosco

Goanet Admin

http://www.goanet.org

Where Goans Connect
Herman Carneiro
2008-10-01 05:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are published here on the mailing
list from time to time. Goanet?s Rules have evolved over many years to
take into account the proper etiquette in participating in public forums
and the needs of our members. We?d like to see Goanet?s discussions be of
high quality.

I?d like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services. They are volunteers who
spend many hours of their valuable time offering their services to the
community. The majority of them have been doing this for years and their
efforts are deeply appreciated.

We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on
different continents. And, like I said before, many of them have a wealth
of experience in moderating Goanet.

The issues:

We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Given the limited number of volunteers and our work load we cannot
possibly point out the same violations time after time. Many of you have
been informed of this.

If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason. This unsavory culture of singling
out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and
we will not allow it. Such matters will be dealt with internally. So
don?t be surprised if your messages are rejected on this account. If you
have a problem with moderation contact the admin team or myself and we?ll
sort things out. Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems. We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues. We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-01 04:54:28 UTC
Permalink
To paraphrase an infamous clich?, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.



There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a
couple 'experts' in this field. Since Mervyn asked two 'simple' questions, I
will acquiesce to his request and provide some examples.



ALMOST (emphasis) every message rejected for posting on Goanet is afforded
an explanation and in many cases seen by more than one moderator, sometimes
three or more moderators. It is our experience that most of the rejected
posts are re-posted after the posters make amends based on the explanations
provided in the rejection notice. The remaining resort to private and public
lambasting and abuse of the moderator, me or Goanet Admin members in
general.



The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules. For eg. Mario Goveia. I have told him I will never give him an
explanation after hundreds of his messages have been rejected over the past
4 years (since he joined Goanet) and indulging him in scores of private
explanations. Has he improved his posting skills? I think he has in the past
few months but there is no guarantee that he will not go down that road
again.



Posters who have a propensity to send in flame-baits, abuse, name-calling,
often indulge in off-post topics, aggressively top/bottom-post, etc.
repeatedly will not be provided with an explanation after several
explanations have been given. There are 3-4 individuals who are consistent
with this behaviour. These guys cannot debate issues without attacking,
demeaning or abusing a fellow poster and will not follow the other simple
rules that have been laid out. These are the guys who are crowing at this
time.



Cornel's initial message on this thread exhibits elitism and is compounded
with ignorance. He cannot come to accept that some of his message(s) do not
conform to Goanet Rules. On another front, he periodically addresses me on
Goanet. He has been informed several times and fails to understand that if
he wants my attention to any administrative issues he has to address it to
goanet-admin <at> goanet.org or bosco <at> goanet.org Cornel would like
nothing but to belittle and abuse Fr Ivo, Gilbert Lawrence, Eric Pinto,
Mario Goveia, etc.in language that he thinks is appropriate but which
violates Goanet Rules and since he is unable to do so, is now suffering from
a bout of bafflegab!!!



The only reason that Miguel has resorted to flatter me over the past few
days is because I held his feet to the fire over the preceding few days in
an off-list discussion (that he alluded to), telling him not to include
entire original posts in his responses to Goanet. Miguel being Miguel will
not accept that his posts are violating any rules as he posts on several
mailing lists where such rules do not exist and he has free rein to do as he
pleases. He is also angry with some moderator(s) (perhaps me) who did not
allow him to respond to Rajan Parrikar 'in kind' earlier this summer. He
believes Rajan Parrikar slighted him publicly and he (Miguel) was denied an
opportunity to return the favour.



Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has
concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was
provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on
the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who
rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh
Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just
an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the
truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.



In a running exchange with a Goanetter (who shall remain nameless for now,
but is certainly reading this) last year, Mervyn Lobo and Gabe Menezes have
had several of their messages rejected last year alongwith some from the
nameless poster for consistently violating Goanet Rules. Again reasons were
given several times after which the messages were just rejected without
explanation. I never heard (directly or indirectly) of Gabe or Mervyn
conduct a campaign to vilify any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. Edward
who posts regularly has had many of his posts rejected; I don't see him
getting choleric at any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin.



If there is any other disgruntled poster out there, please step out from the
shadows. I will give you a reason why your posts are or were rejected if you
haven't got one already. And while you make the effort to identify yourself,
please tell us how many times you have knowingly tried to skirt the Rules
especially to verbally assault a fellow Goanetter?



There is a balance that moderators have to strike between free-speech and
abuse. As is sometimes the case with the same few individuals they cannot
bring it upon themselves to accept that their messages can be rejected.



Instead of focusing on the comments in the rejection notice, some posters
are more concerned about who the moderator was so that they can lynch
him/her verbally in Goan cyberspace. I know best, it has happened to me
several times and is still happening whether I am the moderator or not. If
they don't know who it is, an inquisition is conducted. Would it matter if a
moderator signed his name as Jose or Kamlakar or Caetan or Krishna?? The
problem is the offending message not the moderator. And if you feel you
received a raw deal at the hands of a moderator, please raise the issue with
Goanet Admin goanet-admin <at> goanet.org who have done everything they can
in the past and will do so in the future to afford everybody an opportunity
to share his/her perspective here on Goanet.



In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.



The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??



And yes, through some perspective or another Goanet moderation is always
perceived as biased to somebody or the other. With strong political
convictions some Goans that are pro-Congress are bound to see pro-BJP
posters have a free-hand and vice-versa. Or if its religion vs atheism vs
agnosticism, one group is often offended. Its human nature. If the posts we
see do not conform to our political leanings or religious beliefs, the
easiest thing to do is blame Goanet moderation and when Goanet moderators
reject the messages laden with tripe what happens...the posters turn on the
moderators!! And the circle begins again.....



Mervyn, I hope that was helpful..couldn't shorten it after the flurry of
messages that have been flying around, lots needed to be explained!!! Well,
standby for the reponse........



- Bosco

Goanet Admin

http://www.goanet.org

Where Goans Connect
Herman Carneiro
2008-10-01 05:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are published here on the mailing
list from time to time. Goanet?s Rules have evolved over many years to
take into account the proper etiquette in participating in public forums
and the needs of our members. We?d like to see Goanet?s discussions be of
high quality.

I?d like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services. They are volunteers who
spend many hours of their valuable time offering their services to the
community. The majority of them have been doing this for years and their
efforts are deeply appreciated.

We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on
different continents. And, like I said before, many of them have a wealth
of experience in moderating Goanet.

The issues:

We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Given the limited number of volunteers and our work load we cannot
possibly point out the same violations time after time. Many of you have
been informed of this.

If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason. This unsavory culture of singling
out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and
we will not allow it. Such matters will be dealt with internally. So
don?t be surprised if your messages are rejected on this account. If you
have a problem with moderation contact the admin team or myself and we?ll
sort things out. Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems. We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues. We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-01 04:54:28 UTC
Permalink
To paraphrase an infamous clich?, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.



There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a
couple 'experts' in this field. Since Mervyn asked two 'simple' questions, I
will acquiesce to his request and provide some examples.



ALMOST (emphasis) every message rejected for posting on Goanet is afforded
an explanation and in many cases seen by more than one moderator, sometimes
three or more moderators. It is our experience that most of the rejected
posts are re-posted after the posters make amends based on the explanations
provided in the rejection notice. The remaining resort to private and public
lambasting and abuse of the moderator, me or Goanet Admin members in
general.



The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules. For eg. Mario Goveia. I have told him I will never give him an
explanation after hundreds of his messages have been rejected over the past
4 years (since he joined Goanet) and indulging him in scores of private
explanations. Has he improved his posting skills? I think he has in the past
few months but there is no guarantee that he will not go down that road
again.



Posters who have a propensity to send in flame-baits, abuse, name-calling,
often indulge in off-post topics, aggressively top/bottom-post, etc.
repeatedly will not be provided with an explanation after several
explanations have been given. There are 3-4 individuals who are consistent
with this behaviour. These guys cannot debate issues without attacking,
demeaning or abusing a fellow poster and will not follow the other simple
rules that have been laid out. These are the guys who are crowing at this
time.



Cornel's initial message on this thread exhibits elitism and is compounded
with ignorance. He cannot come to accept that some of his message(s) do not
conform to Goanet Rules. On another front, he periodically addresses me on
Goanet. He has been informed several times and fails to understand that if
he wants my attention to any administrative issues he has to address it to
goanet-admin <at> goanet.org or bosco <at> goanet.org Cornel would like
nothing but to belittle and abuse Fr Ivo, Gilbert Lawrence, Eric Pinto,
Mario Goveia, etc.in language that he thinks is appropriate but which
violates Goanet Rules and since he is unable to do so, is now suffering from
a bout of bafflegab!!!



The only reason that Miguel has resorted to flatter me over the past few
days is because I held his feet to the fire over the preceding few days in
an off-list discussion (that he alluded to), telling him not to include
entire original posts in his responses to Goanet. Miguel being Miguel will
not accept that his posts are violating any rules as he posts on several
mailing lists where such rules do not exist and he has free rein to do as he
pleases. He is also angry with some moderator(s) (perhaps me) who did not
allow him to respond to Rajan Parrikar 'in kind' earlier this summer. He
believes Rajan Parrikar slighted him publicly and he (Miguel) was denied an
opportunity to return the favour.



Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has
concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was
provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on
the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who
rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh
Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just
an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the
truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.



In a running exchange with a Goanetter (who shall remain nameless for now,
but is certainly reading this) last year, Mervyn Lobo and Gabe Menezes have
had several of their messages rejected last year alongwith some from the
nameless poster for consistently violating Goanet Rules. Again reasons were
given several times after which the messages were just rejected without
explanation. I never heard (directly or indirectly) of Gabe or Mervyn
conduct a campaign to vilify any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. Edward
who posts regularly has had many of his posts rejected; I don't see him
getting choleric at any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin.



If there is any other disgruntled poster out there, please step out from the
shadows. I will give you a reason why your posts are or were rejected if you
haven't got one already. And while you make the effort to identify yourself,
please tell us how many times you have knowingly tried to skirt the Rules
especially to verbally assault a fellow Goanetter?



There is a balance that moderators have to strike between free-speech and
abuse. As is sometimes the case with the same few individuals they cannot
bring it upon themselves to accept that their messages can be rejected.



Instead of focusing on the comments in the rejection notice, some posters
are more concerned about who the moderator was so that they can lynch
him/her verbally in Goan cyberspace. I know best, it has happened to me
several times and is still happening whether I am the moderator or not. If
they don't know who it is, an inquisition is conducted. Would it matter if a
moderator signed his name as Jose or Kamlakar or Caetan or Krishna?? The
problem is the offending message not the moderator. And if you feel you
received a raw deal at the hands of a moderator, please raise the issue with
Goanet Admin goanet-admin <at> goanet.org who have done everything they can
in the past and will do so in the future to afford everybody an opportunity
to share his/her perspective here on Goanet.



In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.



The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??



And yes, through some perspective or another Goanet moderation is always
perceived as biased to somebody or the other. With strong political
convictions some Goans that are pro-Congress are bound to see pro-BJP
posters have a free-hand and vice-versa. Or if its religion vs atheism vs
agnosticism, one group is often offended. Its human nature. If the posts we
see do not conform to our political leanings or religious beliefs, the
easiest thing to do is blame Goanet moderation and when Goanet moderators
reject the messages laden with tripe what happens...the posters turn on the
moderators!! And the circle begins again.....



Mervyn, I hope that was helpful..couldn't shorten it after the flurry of
messages that have been flying around, lots needed to be explained!!! Well,
standby for the reponse........



- Bosco

Goanet Admin

http://www.goanet.org

Where Goans Connect
Herman Carneiro
2008-10-01 05:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are published here on the mailing
list from time to time. Goanet?s Rules have evolved over many years to
take into account the proper etiquette in participating in public forums
and the needs of our members. We?d like to see Goanet?s discussions be of
high quality.

I?d like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services. They are volunteers who
spend many hours of their valuable time offering their services to the
community. The majority of them have been doing this for years and their
efforts are deeply appreciated.

We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on
different continents. And, like I said before, many of them have a wealth
of experience in moderating Goanet.

The issues:

We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Given the limited number of volunteers and our work load we cannot
possibly point out the same violations time after time. Many of you have
been informed of this.

If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason. This unsavory culture of singling
out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and
we will not allow it. Such matters will be dealt with internally. So
don?t be surprised if your messages are rejected on this account. If you
have a problem with moderation contact the admin team or myself and we?ll
sort things out. Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems. We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues. We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-01 04:54:28 UTC
Permalink
To paraphrase an infamous clich?, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.



There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a
couple 'experts' in this field. Since Mervyn asked two 'simple' questions, I
will acquiesce to his request and provide some examples.



ALMOST (emphasis) every message rejected for posting on Goanet is afforded
an explanation and in many cases seen by more than one moderator, sometimes
three or more moderators. It is our experience that most of the rejected
posts are re-posted after the posters make amends based on the explanations
provided in the rejection notice. The remaining resort to private and public
lambasting and abuse of the moderator, me or Goanet Admin members in
general.



The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules. For eg. Mario Goveia. I have told him I will never give him an
explanation after hundreds of his messages have been rejected over the past
4 years (since he joined Goanet) and indulging him in scores of private
explanations. Has he improved his posting skills? I think he has in the past
few months but there is no guarantee that he will not go down that road
again.



Posters who have a propensity to send in flame-baits, abuse, name-calling,
often indulge in off-post topics, aggressively top/bottom-post, etc.
repeatedly will not be provided with an explanation after several
explanations have been given. There are 3-4 individuals who are consistent
with this behaviour. These guys cannot debate issues without attacking,
demeaning or abusing a fellow poster and will not follow the other simple
rules that have been laid out. These are the guys who are crowing at this
time.



Cornel's initial message on this thread exhibits elitism and is compounded
with ignorance. He cannot come to accept that some of his message(s) do not
conform to Goanet Rules. On another front, he periodically addresses me on
Goanet. He has been informed several times and fails to understand that if
he wants my attention to any administrative issues he has to address it to
goanet-admin <at> goanet.org or bosco <at> goanet.org Cornel would like
nothing but to belittle and abuse Fr Ivo, Gilbert Lawrence, Eric Pinto,
Mario Goveia, etc.in language that he thinks is appropriate but which
violates Goanet Rules and since he is unable to do so, is now suffering from
a bout of bafflegab!!!



The only reason that Miguel has resorted to flatter me over the past few
days is because I held his feet to the fire over the preceding few days in
an off-list discussion (that he alluded to), telling him not to include
entire original posts in his responses to Goanet. Miguel being Miguel will
not accept that his posts are violating any rules as he posts on several
mailing lists where such rules do not exist and he has free rein to do as he
pleases. He is also angry with some moderator(s) (perhaps me) who did not
allow him to respond to Rajan Parrikar 'in kind' earlier this summer. He
believes Rajan Parrikar slighted him publicly and he (Miguel) was denied an
opportunity to return the favour.



Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has
concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was
provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on
the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who
rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh
Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just
an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the
truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.



In a running exchange with a Goanetter (who shall remain nameless for now,
but is certainly reading this) last year, Mervyn Lobo and Gabe Menezes have
had several of their messages rejected last year alongwith some from the
nameless poster for consistently violating Goanet Rules. Again reasons were
given several times after which the messages were just rejected without
explanation. I never heard (directly or indirectly) of Gabe or Mervyn
conduct a campaign to vilify any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. Edward
who posts regularly has had many of his posts rejected; I don't see him
getting choleric at any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin.



If there is any other disgruntled poster out there, please step out from the
shadows. I will give you a reason why your posts are or were rejected if you
haven't got one already. And while you make the effort to identify yourself,
please tell us how many times you have knowingly tried to skirt the Rules
especially to verbally assault a fellow Goanetter?



There is a balance that moderators have to strike between free-speech and
abuse. As is sometimes the case with the same few individuals they cannot
bring it upon themselves to accept that their messages can be rejected.



Instead of focusing on the comments in the rejection notice, some posters
are more concerned about who the moderator was so that they can lynch
him/her verbally in Goan cyberspace. I know best, it has happened to me
several times and is still happening whether I am the moderator or not. If
they don't know who it is, an inquisition is conducted. Would it matter if a
moderator signed his name as Jose or Kamlakar or Caetan or Krishna?? The
problem is the offending message not the moderator. And if you feel you
received a raw deal at the hands of a moderator, please raise the issue with
Goanet Admin goanet-admin <at> goanet.org who have done everything they can
in the past and will do so in the future to afford everybody an opportunity
to share his/her perspective here on Goanet.



In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.



The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??



And yes, through some perspective or another Goanet moderation is always
perceived as biased to somebody or the other. With strong political
convictions some Goans that are pro-Congress are bound to see pro-BJP
posters have a free-hand and vice-versa. Or if its religion vs atheism vs
agnosticism, one group is often offended. Its human nature. If the posts we
see do not conform to our political leanings or religious beliefs, the
easiest thing to do is blame Goanet moderation and when Goanet moderators
reject the messages laden with tripe what happens...the posters turn on the
moderators!! And the circle begins again.....



Mervyn, I hope that was helpful..couldn't shorten it after the flurry of
messages that have been flying around, lots needed to be explained!!! Well,
standby for the reponse........



- Bosco

Goanet Admin

http://www.goanet.org

Where Goans Connect
Herman Carneiro
2008-10-01 05:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are published here on the mailing
list from time to time. Goanet?s Rules have evolved over many years to
take into account the proper etiquette in participating in public forums
and the needs of our members. We?d like to see Goanet?s discussions be of
high quality.

I?d like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services. They are volunteers who
spend many hours of their valuable time offering their services to the
community. The majority of them have been doing this for years and their
efforts are deeply appreciated.

We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on
different continents. And, like I said before, many of them have a wealth
of experience in moderating Goanet.

The issues:

We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Given the limited number of volunteers and our work load we cannot
possibly point out the same violations time after time. Many of you have
been informed of this.

If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason. This unsavory culture of singling
out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and
we will not allow it. Such matters will be dealt with internally. So
don?t be surprised if your messages are rejected on this account. If you
have a problem with moderation contact the admin team or myself and we?ll
sort things out. Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems. We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues. We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-01 04:54:28 UTC
Permalink
To paraphrase an infamous clich?, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.



There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a
couple 'experts' in this field. Since Mervyn asked two 'simple' questions, I
will acquiesce to his request and provide some examples.



ALMOST (emphasis) every message rejected for posting on Goanet is afforded
an explanation and in many cases seen by more than one moderator, sometimes
three or more moderators. It is our experience that most of the rejected
posts are re-posted after the posters make amends based on the explanations
provided in the rejection notice. The remaining resort to private and public
lambasting and abuse of the moderator, me or Goanet Admin members in
general.



The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules. For eg. Mario Goveia. I have told him I will never give him an
explanation after hundreds of his messages have been rejected over the past
4 years (since he joined Goanet) and indulging him in scores of private
explanations. Has he improved his posting skills? I think he has in the past
few months but there is no guarantee that he will not go down that road
again.



Posters who have a propensity to send in flame-baits, abuse, name-calling,
often indulge in off-post topics, aggressively top/bottom-post, etc.
repeatedly will not be provided with an explanation after several
explanations have been given. There are 3-4 individuals who are consistent
with this behaviour. These guys cannot debate issues without attacking,
demeaning or abusing a fellow poster and will not follow the other simple
rules that have been laid out. These are the guys who are crowing at this
time.



Cornel's initial message on this thread exhibits elitism and is compounded
with ignorance. He cannot come to accept that some of his message(s) do not
conform to Goanet Rules. On another front, he periodically addresses me on
Goanet. He has been informed several times and fails to understand that if
he wants my attention to any administrative issues he has to address it to
goanet-admin <at> goanet.org or bosco <at> goanet.org Cornel would like
nothing but to belittle and abuse Fr Ivo, Gilbert Lawrence, Eric Pinto,
Mario Goveia, etc.in language that he thinks is appropriate but which
violates Goanet Rules and since he is unable to do so, is now suffering from
a bout of bafflegab!!!



The only reason that Miguel has resorted to flatter me over the past few
days is because I held his feet to the fire over the preceding few days in
an off-list discussion (that he alluded to), telling him not to include
entire original posts in his responses to Goanet. Miguel being Miguel will
not accept that his posts are violating any rules as he posts on several
mailing lists where such rules do not exist and he has free rein to do as he
pleases. He is also angry with some moderator(s) (perhaps me) who did not
allow him to respond to Rajan Parrikar 'in kind' earlier this summer. He
believes Rajan Parrikar slighted him publicly and he (Miguel) was denied an
opportunity to return the favour.



Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has
concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was
provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on
the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who
rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh
Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just
an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the
truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.



In a running exchange with a Goanetter (who shall remain nameless for now,
but is certainly reading this) last year, Mervyn Lobo and Gabe Menezes have
had several of their messages rejected last year alongwith some from the
nameless poster for consistently violating Goanet Rules. Again reasons were
given several times after which the messages were just rejected without
explanation. I never heard (directly or indirectly) of Gabe or Mervyn
conduct a campaign to vilify any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. Edward
who posts regularly has had many of his posts rejected; I don't see him
getting choleric at any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin.



If there is any other disgruntled poster out there, please step out from the
shadows. I will give you a reason why your posts are or were rejected if you
haven't got one already. And while you make the effort to identify yourself,
please tell us how many times you have knowingly tried to skirt the Rules
especially to verbally assault a fellow Goanetter?



There is a balance that moderators have to strike between free-speech and
abuse. As is sometimes the case with the same few individuals they cannot
bring it upon themselves to accept that their messages can be rejected.



Instead of focusing on the comments in the rejection notice, some posters
are more concerned about who the moderator was so that they can lynch
him/her verbally in Goan cyberspace. I know best, it has happened to me
several times and is still happening whether I am the moderator or not. If
they don't know who it is, an inquisition is conducted. Would it matter if a
moderator signed his name as Jose or Kamlakar or Caetan or Krishna?? The
problem is the offending message not the moderator. And if you feel you
received a raw deal at the hands of a moderator, please raise the issue with
Goanet Admin goanet-admin <at> goanet.org who have done everything they can
in the past and will do so in the future to afford everybody an opportunity
to share his/her perspective here on Goanet.



In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.



The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??



And yes, through some perspective or another Goanet moderation is always
perceived as biased to somebody or the other. With strong political
convictions some Goans that are pro-Congress are bound to see pro-BJP
posters have a free-hand and vice-versa. Or if its religion vs atheism vs
agnosticism, one group is often offended. Its human nature. If the posts we
see do not conform to our political leanings or religious beliefs, the
easiest thing to do is blame Goanet moderation and when Goanet moderators
reject the messages laden with tripe what happens...the posters turn on the
moderators!! And the circle begins again.....



Mervyn, I hope that was helpful..couldn't shorten it after the flurry of
messages that have been flying around, lots needed to be explained!!! Well,
standby for the reponse........



- Bosco

Goanet Admin

http://www.goanet.org

Where Goans Connect
Herman Carneiro
2008-10-01 05:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are published here on the mailing
list from time to time. Goanet?s Rules have evolved over many years to
take into account the proper etiquette in participating in public forums
and the needs of our members. We?d like to see Goanet?s discussions be of
high quality.

I?d like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services. They are volunteers who
spend many hours of their valuable time offering their services to the
community. The majority of them have been doing this for years and their
efforts are deeply appreciated.

We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on
different continents. And, like I said before, many of them have a wealth
of experience in moderating Goanet.

The issues:

We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Given the limited number of volunteers and our work load we cannot
possibly point out the same violations time after time. Many of you have
been informed of this.

If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason. This unsavory culture of singling
out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and
we will not allow it. Such matters will be dealt with internally. So
don?t be surprised if your messages are rejected on this account. If you
have a problem with moderation contact the admin team or myself and we?ll
sort things out. Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems. We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues. We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-01 04:54:28 UTC
Permalink
To paraphrase an infamous clich?, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.



There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a
couple 'experts' in this field. Since Mervyn asked two 'simple' questions, I
will acquiesce to his request and provide some examples.



ALMOST (emphasis) every message rejected for posting on Goanet is afforded
an explanation and in many cases seen by more than one moderator, sometimes
three or more moderators. It is our experience that most of the rejected
posts are re-posted after the posters make amends based on the explanations
provided in the rejection notice. The remaining resort to private and public
lambasting and abuse of the moderator, me or Goanet Admin members in
general.



The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules. For eg. Mario Goveia. I have told him I will never give him an
explanation after hundreds of his messages have been rejected over the past
4 years (since he joined Goanet) and indulging him in scores of private
explanations. Has he improved his posting skills? I think he has in the past
few months but there is no guarantee that he will not go down that road
again.



Posters who have a propensity to send in flame-baits, abuse, name-calling,
often indulge in off-post topics, aggressively top/bottom-post, etc.
repeatedly will not be provided with an explanation after several
explanations have been given. There are 3-4 individuals who are consistent
with this behaviour. These guys cannot debate issues without attacking,
demeaning or abusing a fellow poster and will not follow the other simple
rules that have been laid out. These are the guys who are crowing at this
time.



Cornel's initial message on this thread exhibits elitism and is compounded
with ignorance. He cannot come to accept that some of his message(s) do not
conform to Goanet Rules. On another front, he periodically addresses me on
Goanet. He has been informed several times and fails to understand that if
he wants my attention to any administrative issues he has to address it to
goanet-admin <at> goanet.org or bosco <at> goanet.org Cornel would like
nothing but to belittle and abuse Fr Ivo, Gilbert Lawrence, Eric Pinto,
Mario Goveia, etc.in language that he thinks is appropriate but which
violates Goanet Rules and since he is unable to do so, is now suffering from
a bout of bafflegab!!!



The only reason that Miguel has resorted to flatter me over the past few
days is because I held his feet to the fire over the preceding few days in
an off-list discussion (that he alluded to), telling him not to include
entire original posts in his responses to Goanet. Miguel being Miguel will
not accept that his posts are violating any rules as he posts on several
mailing lists where such rules do not exist and he has free rein to do as he
pleases. He is also angry with some moderator(s) (perhaps me) who did not
allow him to respond to Rajan Parrikar 'in kind' earlier this summer. He
believes Rajan Parrikar slighted him publicly and he (Miguel) was denied an
opportunity to return the favour.



Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has
concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was
provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on
the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who
rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh
Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just
an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the
truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.



In a running exchange with a Goanetter (who shall remain nameless for now,
but is certainly reading this) last year, Mervyn Lobo and Gabe Menezes have
had several of their messages rejected last year alongwith some from the
nameless poster for consistently violating Goanet Rules. Again reasons were
given several times after which the messages were just rejected without
explanation. I never heard (directly or indirectly) of Gabe or Mervyn
conduct a campaign to vilify any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. Edward
who posts regularly has had many of his posts rejected; I don't see him
getting choleric at any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin.



If there is any other disgruntled poster out there, please step out from the
shadows. I will give you a reason why your posts are or were rejected if you
haven't got one already. And while you make the effort to identify yourself,
please tell us how many times you have knowingly tried to skirt the Rules
especially to verbally assault a fellow Goanetter?



There is a balance that moderators have to strike between free-speech and
abuse. As is sometimes the case with the same few individuals they cannot
bring it upon themselves to accept that their messages can be rejected.



Instead of focusing on the comments in the rejection notice, some posters
are more concerned about who the moderator was so that they can lynch
him/her verbally in Goan cyberspace. I know best, it has happened to me
several times and is still happening whether I am the moderator or not. If
they don't know who it is, an inquisition is conducted. Would it matter if a
moderator signed his name as Jose or Kamlakar or Caetan or Krishna?? The
problem is the offending message not the moderator. And if you feel you
received a raw deal at the hands of a moderator, please raise the issue with
Goanet Admin goanet-admin <at> goanet.org who have done everything they can
in the past and will do so in the future to afford everybody an opportunity
to share his/her perspective here on Goanet.



In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.



The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??



And yes, through some perspective or another Goanet moderation is always
perceived as biased to somebody or the other. With strong political
convictions some Goans that are pro-Congress are bound to see pro-BJP
posters have a free-hand and vice-versa. Or if its religion vs atheism vs
agnosticism, one group is often offended. Its human nature. If the posts we
see do not conform to our political leanings or religious beliefs, the
easiest thing to do is blame Goanet moderation and when Goanet moderators
reject the messages laden with tripe what happens...the posters turn on the
moderators!! And the circle begins again.....



Mervyn, I hope that was helpful..couldn't shorten it after the flurry of
messages that have been flying around, lots needed to be explained!!! Well,
standby for the reponse........



- Bosco

Goanet Admin

http://www.goanet.org

Where Goans Connect
Herman Carneiro
2008-10-01 05:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are published here on the mailing
list from time to time. Goanet?s Rules have evolved over many years to
take into account the proper etiquette in participating in public forums
and the needs of our members. We?d like to see Goanet?s discussions be of
high quality.

I?d like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services. They are volunteers who
spend many hours of their valuable time offering their services to the
community. The majority of them have been doing this for years and their
efforts are deeply appreciated.

We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on
different continents. And, like I said before, many of them have a wealth
of experience in moderating Goanet.

The issues:

We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Given the limited number of volunteers and our work load we cannot
possibly point out the same violations time after time. Many of you have
been informed of this.

If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason. This unsavory culture of singling
out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and
we will not allow it. Such matters will be dealt with internally. So
don?t be surprised if your messages are rejected on this account. If you
have a problem with moderation contact the admin team or myself and we?ll
sort things out. Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems. We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues. We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-01 04:54:28 UTC
Permalink
To paraphrase an infamous clich?, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.



There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a
couple 'experts' in this field. Since Mervyn asked two 'simple' questions, I
will acquiesce to his request and provide some examples.



ALMOST (emphasis) every message rejected for posting on Goanet is afforded
an explanation and in many cases seen by more than one moderator, sometimes
three or more moderators. It is our experience that most of the rejected
posts are re-posted after the posters make amends based on the explanations
provided in the rejection notice. The remaining resort to private and public
lambasting and abuse of the moderator, me or Goanet Admin members in
general.



The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules. For eg. Mario Goveia. I have told him I will never give him an
explanation after hundreds of his messages have been rejected over the past
4 years (since he joined Goanet) and indulging him in scores of private
explanations. Has he improved his posting skills? I think he has in the past
few months but there is no guarantee that he will not go down that road
again.



Posters who have a propensity to send in flame-baits, abuse, name-calling,
often indulge in off-post topics, aggressively top/bottom-post, etc.
repeatedly will not be provided with an explanation after several
explanations have been given. There are 3-4 individuals who are consistent
with this behaviour. These guys cannot debate issues without attacking,
demeaning or abusing a fellow poster and will not follow the other simple
rules that have been laid out. These are the guys who are crowing at this
time.



Cornel's initial message on this thread exhibits elitism and is compounded
with ignorance. He cannot come to accept that some of his message(s) do not
conform to Goanet Rules. On another front, he periodically addresses me on
Goanet. He has been informed several times and fails to understand that if
he wants my attention to any administrative issues he has to address it to
goanet-admin <at> goanet.org or bosco <at> goanet.org Cornel would like
nothing but to belittle and abuse Fr Ivo, Gilbert Lawrence, Eric Pinto,
Mario Goveia, etc.in language that he thinks is appropriate but which
violates Goanet Rules and since he is unable to do so, is now suffering from
a bout of bafflegab!!!



The only reason that Miguel has resorted to flatter me over the past few
days is because I held his feet to the fire over the preceding few days in
an off-list discussion (that he alluded to), telling him not to include
entire original posts in his responses to Goanet. Miguel being Miguel will
not accept that his posts are violating any rules as he posts on several
mailing lists where such rules do not exist and he has free rein to do as he
pleases. He is also angry with some moderator(s) (perhaps me) who did not
allow him to respond to Rajan Parrikar 'in kind' earlier this summer. He
believes Rajan Parrikar slighted him publicly and he (Miguel) was denied an
opportunity to return the favour.



Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has
concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was
provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on
the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who
rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh
Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just
an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the
truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.



In a running exchange with a Goanetter (who shall remain nameless for now,
but is certainly reading this) last year, Mervyn Lobo and Gabe Menezes have
had several of their messages rejected last year alongwith some from the
nameless poster for consistently violating Goanet Rules. Again reasons were
given several times after which the messages were just rejected without
explanation. I never heard (directly or indirectly) of Gabe or Mervyn
conduct a campaign to vilify any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. Edward
who posts regularly has had many of his posts rejected; I don't see him
getting choleric at any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin.



If there is any other disgruntled poster out there, please step out from the
shadows. I will give you a reason why your posts are or were rejected if you
haven't got one already. And while you make the effort to identify yourself,
please tell us how many times you have knowingly tried to skirt the Rules
especially to verbally assault a fellow Goanetter?



There is a balance that moderators have to strike between free-speech and
abuse. As is sometimes the case with the same few individuals they cannot
bring it upon themselves to accept that their messages can be rejected.



Instead of focusing on the comments in the rejection notice, some posters
are more concerned about who the moderator was so that they can lynch
him/her verbally in Goan cyberspace. I know best, it has happened to me
several times and is still happening whether I am the moderator or not. If
they don't know who it is, an inquisition is conducted. Would it matter if a
moderator signed his name as Jose or Kamlakar or Caetan or Krishna?? The
problem is the offending message not the moderator. And if you feel you
received a raw deal at the hands of a moderator, please raise the issue with
Goanet Admin goanet-admin <at> goanet.org who have done everything they can
in the past and will do so in the future to afford everybody an opportunity
to share his/her perspective here on Goanet.



In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.



The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??



And yes, through some perspective or another Goanet moderation is always
perceived as biased to somebody or the other. With strong political
convictions some Goans that are pro-Congress are bound to see pro-BJP
posters have a free-hand and vice-versa. Or if its religion vs atheism vs
agnosticism, one group is often offended. Its human nature. If the posts we
see do not conform to our political leanings or religious beliefs, the
easiest thing to do is blame Goanet moderation and when Goanet moderators
reject the messages laden with tripe what happens...the posters turn on the
moderators!! And the circle begins again.....



Mervyn, I hope that was helpful..couldn't shorten it after the flurry of
messages that have been flying around, lots needed to be explained!!! Well,
standby for the reponse........



- Bosco

Goanet Admin

http://www.goanet.org

Where Goans Connect
Herman Carneiro
2008-10-01 05:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are published here on the mailing
list from time to time. Goanet?s Rules have evolved over many years to
take into account the proper etiquette in participating in public forums
and the needs of our members. We?d like to see Goanet?s discussions be of
high quality.

I?d like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services. They are volunteers who
spend many hours of their valuable time offering their services to the
community. The majority of them have been doing this for years and their
efforts are deeply appreciated.

We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on
different continents. And, like I said before, many of them have a wealth
of experience in moderating Goanet.

The issues:

We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Given the limited number of volunteers and our work load we cannot
possibly point out the same violations time after time. Many of you have
been informed of this.

If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason. This unsavory culture of singling
out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and
we will not allow it. Such matters will be dealt with internally. So
don?t be surprised if your messages are rejected on this account. If you
have a problem with moderation contact the admin team or myself and we?ll
sort things out. Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems. We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues. We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org
Mario Goveia
2008-10-01 19:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Mario responds:
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff, Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster like that?
Herman wrote:
If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.
Mario responds:
If there were instructions or explanations in the rejection notice, we would be able to do so, but there are none, with rare exceptions. That is precisely why some of us have been asking for explanations.
Besides, in all my years on Goanet, no one I have written to at Goanet Administration or Goanet-Owner at lists.goanet.org has ever replied to my questions.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-02 04:07:23 UTC
Permalink
From: "Herman Carneiro"
Post by Mario Goveia
Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an
explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators
have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you
have chosen to ignore.
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff,
Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your
assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an
explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and
meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster
like that?
RESPONSE: Mario....Not hell but heaven........lets just sing Alleluia!!! I
have the perfect solution you desire. I will personally ensure you get the
exact reason why your message(s) are being rejected. All you have to do is
donate US$50 to Goanet each month. This will buy you explanations to a
maximum of 10 rejected messages each month. The money has to be paid on the
1st of each month failing which all you will get is "Inappropriate".

Here is the link to make a donation to Goanet:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=_QgUyKYylIQnPSWhTo6D0RHp6_rrgnPzNs_Bq77ywdA0O9MMJlAqYEXJ5ae&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f38432c9462fe731381a7a80e09148cd4d65d984db31b77c2

or

Visit www.goanet.org and click on the orange "Make a Donation" button in the
right pane.

Yes Mario, I am back in the house and your InBox is going to be busier than
its been in the past 6 months. Only YOU can help yourself.

Deal or No Deal??

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-01 16:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he >has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he >was provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow >through on the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned >with who rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. >Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. >This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being >used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false. I pointed out that the fact that nobody signed the rejection message, and I gave my hunch as to who the anonymous moderator might be, based on past experience.

Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions, I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by emailing the same questions back to him. My Goanet post had also asked for input from the 9000 or so non-moderating members of Goanet, input that none of the moderators could possibly provide. BTW, my questions were derived from concerns raised by other Goanetters.

Cheers,

Santosh
Miguel Braganza
2008-10-01 11:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Dear Herman,
?
Perhaps, your post will bring down the curtain on this discussion ... and put many a active poster on call.?
?
I do not believe that anyone who states a fact should be said to be casting aspersions. there may be a disagreement in the perspective as in the classic example of a "half bottle of Scotch": if it is one's own it is already "half empty", if it is your friend's bottle it is still "half full". The one who insists that the bottle is still half full is not casting aspersions, he is just stating a fact ...from his perspective. Ditto for the good job that the Goanet Admin is doing. Do you want to deny the pimples and the warts on the pretty face of the Admin? I am sure you don't.
?
You wrote: "Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore."
By that yardstick, a habitual drinker's request for assistance must be rejected ... even if all he is asking for is a glass of water! Is that it?
?
Comrades are likely to be up in arms as the Oligarchy of the Goanet Admin team has been clearly re-stated by you. "Our decisions will be final on the matter." Those living as second class citizens in foreign lands and in school boardings in Goa may find nothing amiss with that. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
PS
On the original thread,?Dom writes about crabs. On 29 Sept. Nitin Kunkolienkar and others made an allusion to that because Goans are protesting against mega projects and SEZs. ?Jason Keith Fernandes has a beautiful take on the basket of crabs in the GT today. I will post it later in the day.


Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Message-ID:
??? <bbbd5103bf13fe4a3693a6be2114dac7.squirrel at webmail.goanet.org>
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org? We'd like to see Goanet's discussions be of
high quality.

I'd like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services.?

We've built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible.?

The issues:

? Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.


If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message.? Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

?This unsavory culture of singling out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and we will not allow it.??Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.? We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 01:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.
-snip-
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??
Bosco,
No one is asking for the rules to be eased.
What is needed is the exact opposite.


The moderators?have to?make sure that the rules are?consistently applied. They
just cannot, for example, allow the worst known words in the Konkani language
to be posted here. They certainly cannot keep quiet when members complain
about the foul?words used.?Keeping quiet has never resolved any issue.


Another issue is that some posters are only here to antagonize people. These
personalities are well known to?ALL the moderators. I just cannot understand why
such people are allowed to keep posting their?venom year in and year out. Every
post of mine that was rejected, was?my retort to these poisonous?posts.?Almost
everyone else complaining about rejected posts is doing so?because?he has
experienced?this problem.


A third issue is that, if there are rules here, surely they have to be applied to all?
It is quite obvious that some posters (and may I add that these are not moderators)
have their?posts appearing on Goanet in real time.


Once again, take a look at the number of?complaints that are now?being sent in.
JoeGoaUK went as far as to?stop posting for a week.
The result for his act of?protest?
Nothing!


Mervyn3.0



__________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 02:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman Carneiro
Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for.? While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason.?
Herman,
If we are?assured that it?requires more than one moderator to reject
a post (or a reply to a post),?I have no problems accepting the rejected
posts with only a "Rejected by moderator number one and?moderator number
five," for example. There is no need for the moderator to sign his/her name on
the rejected message.?A one line reason for the rejections is?essential.?
The concern here was that a single moderator?could reject a post at his own
discretion and without the?other moderators?knowing.
Post by Herman Carneiro
We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.?We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.
?
Yes, sometimes all it takes is transparency to?iron out problems.


Mervyn3.0



__________________________________________________________________
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-03 22:25:06 UTC
Permalink
For reasons unknown (???), this poster has potrayed my text as his own in
this thread:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html
Post by Santosh Helekar
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he
has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he
was provided an explanation in the rejection note
This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being
used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false.
RESPONSE: TRUE!! There are no implications just your messages to Goanet to
go by.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators
himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions,
I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by
emailing the same questions back to him.
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to
direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org . All other gratuituous
comments above are ignored.

Goanet Admin is happy to respond as best we can to any queries raised by
Goanetters. The 3-4 gentlemen who have persistently tried to tie us up with
endless emails (that has included abuse) will NOT get any response or
explanations. I will re-state myself - Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4
gentlemen i refer to.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-05 05:26:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org .
This is quite a mystery! The above is a response to my following statement:

"Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators." --- Santosh

This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not
refer to the Goanet moderators. But please note that the above
response from "Bosco - Goanet Volunteer <bosco at goanet.org>" was signed
by "Bosco, Goanet Admin"

Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said
Goanet volunteer/Goanet Admin representative and ask this question:

Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the
names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)?

I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so mysterious
and complicated.

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-05 05:26:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org .
This is quite a mystery! The above is a response to my following statement:

"Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators." --- Santosh

This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not
refer to the Goanet moderators. But please note that the above
response from "Bosco - Goanet Volunteer <bosco at goanet.org>" was signed
by "Bosco, Goanet Admin"

Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said
Goanet volunteer/Goanet Admin representative and ask this question:

Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the
names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)?

I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so mysterious
and complicated.

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-05 05:26:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org .
This is quite a mystery! The above is a response to my following statement:

"Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators." --- Santosh

This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not
refer to the Goanet moderators. But please note that the above
response from "Bosco - Goanet Volunteer <bosco at goanet.org>" was signed
by "Bosco, Goanet Admin"

Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said
Goanet volunteer/Goanet Admin representative and ask this question:

Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the
names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)?

I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so mysterious
and complicated.

Cheers,

Santosh
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-05 05:26:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org .
This is quite a mystery! The above is a response to my following statement:

"Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators." --- Santosh

This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not
refer to the Goanet moderators. But please note that the above
response from "Bosco - Goanet Volunteer <bosco at goanet.org>" was signed
by "Bosco, Goanet Admin"

Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said
Goanet volunteer/Goanet Admin representative and ask this question:

Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the
names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)?

I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so mysterious
and complicated.

Cheers,

Santosh
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-04 04:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn,

I dont know what you mean when you say 'real time'.

1. Nobody, repeat nobody, on Goanet is on unmoderated post.
2. If a moderator is online when someone posts, and is moderating at that
time, chances are that an uncomplicated post will go through almost
instantaneously

Considering everything [1] else you have said is true for a blind moment, I
have one question, one piece of information and one request of you. Please
oblige.

Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??

Information: If you were antagonized by a 'poisonous post', it does not
necessarily mean you reply in an even more 'poisonous' response albeit I'm
not certain how we would measure 'poisonous'. The Rules clearly state you
can bring your grievance to the attention of Goanet Admin or please see
Request.

Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; dont fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.

- Three days in October and we have over 170 messages in the archives
- We receive approx 500 messages each day including SPAM
- Moderators have to read all messages before acting on them

It takes a fair amount of time for the 7 people who help moderate Goanet at
different times during the day/week as and when time permits.

There is plenty of work to be done. I am getting off this carousel as I
think we have afforded adequate time to this issue and we can move on. We
always appreciate feedback from Goanetters. For those that want to continue
discussing this issue with Goanet Admin or want to provide any feedback,
please write to goanet-admin at goanet.org

Thank you again, Mervyn.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org


Ref [1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081424.html
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-04 11:58:24 UTC
Permalink
If the following fact is true -?"regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects" on Goanet, I would suggest the moderators should find?more dramatic / drastic means to deal with the authors of these innumerable inappropriate posts. This would be better than the moderators wasting their valuable time rejecting posts with or without an explanation.?
?
If there are "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", likely the moderators have automated their response with a press of a button. And who can blame them for that?? Of course, the "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", may be?just another exaggeration that we often see on Goanet, when fiction?replaces fact.
?
To Bosco, given your post below, our sympathies are with you and other moderators.? You have shown the ability to remain polite in the most hostile exchanges. I want the moderators?to remember for every poster who resents your characterization of their post as "inappropriate", there are many posters who thank you from saving them from self-embarrassment. And?there are a whole group of Goanetters who thank you for sparing us from these "inappropriate posts". The fact that Goanet has survived successfully for so long, is in itself a credit to the moderators. Many Goan chat sites have seen their demise or are on a respirator with no activity.
?
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations that?the moderators?can automatically added to the "inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute for reasoning"
?
And there is the whole selection of "choice phraseology" that our English professor from Goa, Augusto Pinto, has kindly provided, starting with obnubliating.:=))
Regards, GL
?
?
----------- CORNEL DACOSTA
?
I was not attacking the person but the systemic mess that Goanet is in regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects.

?
------------- Bosco - Goanet Volunteer

To paraphrase an infamous clich, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.? There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a?couple 'experts' in this field.
?
The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules.??
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-05 00:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??
Bosco,
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn.
I think that life is to short to go around?antagonizing?people. I?certainly
do not want to be?a provoker.?Maybe in trying to amuse, I have crossed the
line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; don't fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.
I always reply in private to an exceptional post.
The problem is that when I tell a poster that his language is unacceptable, the reply
I get is in worse language. Prime example is our photographer friend. And may I add
that I was not the only person to experience foul?language from him. Several other
Goanetter's have posted what they have experienced when they?told him privately
what they felt about his language.?


There?are?serial/repeat offenders here. All you have to?do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of?the moderators?time.


Mervyn3.0


__________________________________________________________________
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CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-10-05 11:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert
Thank you for indicating that brief reasons for post rejections by Goanet moderators would be helpful when they are deemed "inappropriate". That is indeed all critics of Goanet moderation have been asking for since Jan/Feb 2008. I am glad you have noted this point and responded to it even if through satire!

Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not.

I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves. Perhaps Boso in particular can now expound on his current vacuous view that "hell hath no fury like a poster scorned". I emphasise that, I didn't barge into Goanet and at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so as it would not be in Goanet's interests to do so. Perhaps hell hath no fury like a moderator scorned and exposed so easily!
Cornel
From: Gilbert Lawrence <gilbert2114 at yahoo.com>
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations
that?the moderators?can automatically added to the
"inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are
responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute
for reasoning"
???
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-06 02:14:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mervyn,
?
Goanet moderators advise posters who aim to be amusing to use a smiley :=)).? I do not see that in your alleged?non-provocative posts that you label as "amusing?+/- having crossed the line".
?
As far as Goan posts without the :=)) being amusing, I assumed that the author of those post was a?'Goan on steroids'.:=))? If one retorts with similar words / explanation, then he / she?needs a screw-driver to adjust?their 'humor button'.?
?
This advice?is also directed?to some posters who have a compulsory need to respond to? posts which they imagine is?directed to them. The good news is their reply suggest they took the?message personally.
?
I like your idea of 'special treatment' to the "serial offenders".? Can you imagine the poor moderators have to repeatedly read their posts?? I can only call?that pirachit / penance.? No wonder the moderators get a 'thought block' and cannot respond with a one-liner. Likely the moderators go for the feni or scotch?after reading those posts.?
?
Glad none of the 'sensitive' posters, on receiving the many rejections?of inappropriate posts, have not?resorted to something more drastic; like -?taking a bucket of cold water and dipping their head three times and taking it out twice.:=)). Looking at the support the disgruntled posters received, it appears they are not getting much credibility. Yet, they have only themselves to blame. For a time, they felt they were making cumulative headway. But their difficult-to-prove stories?was their undoing, in addition to their suggestion?that they were 'God's gift to Goanet' - which they may be.:=))
?
Regards, GL
?
-----------------?Mervyn Lobo
?
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn. I think that life is to short to go around antagonizing people. I certainly do not want to be a provoker. May be in trying to amuse, I have crossed the line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
?
There are serial / repeat offenders here. All you have to do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of the moderators time.
?
------------------ Bosco wrote:
?
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and?provoke fellow Goanetters?
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-06 02:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Santosh Helekar
"Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators." --- Santosh
This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not
refer to the Goanet moderators.
RESPONSE: Your statement is FALSE because what you stated in your message
[1] "...the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the
Goanet moderators" is FALSE.

You were not advised to "send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators" as
much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your
questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that!
Post by Santosh Helekar
Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said
RESPONSE: You are very welcome. You are afterall of superior intelligence.
We are proud of you.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the
names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)?
RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; Goanet
Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members can moderate
Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been published (Herman
has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are published here
infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin and Goanet
Moderators are volunteers.
Post by Santosh Helekar
I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so
mysterious and complicated.
RESPONSE: Even the brightest live and learn everyday, dont we??

If you have any further administrative queries, please direct them to Goanet
Admin - goanet-admin at goanet.org and not to the discussion/ mailing list.
Thank you.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org



[1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html

[2]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-September/081358.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-06 12:01:51 UTC
Permalink
RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; >Goanet Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members >can moderate Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been
published (Herman has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are >published here infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin
and Goanet Moderators are volunteers.
This response comes as a surprise to me, and I am sure, to many others, including some of us who have been members of Goanet for more than a decade. I am glad I asked the question to which the above was the answer. Let me see if I understand what this answer says:

1. Goanet Admin is not the same as Goanet moderators.

2. There are some moderators whose names we do not know, and Herman, the Chair of the Goanet Admin Team will not disclose who they are. Their names have never been published by anybody. All we know about this mysterious group of people is the following from Herman:

"We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on different continents."
.......Herman

3. Only the names of the Goanet Admin Team have been disclosed. They can choose to also moderate Goanet if they want.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-10-06 14:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:47:34 -0400
From: "Bosco - Goanet Volunteer" <bosco at goanet.org>
You were not advised to "send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators" as
much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your
questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that!
Mario responds:
Thanks to Bosco for clearing up the difference between Goanet moderators and Goanet Administrators.
I'm not sure what all the sturm and drang is about when all we had asked for was for the moderators to identify themselves and explain why they are rejecting a post.
I would like everyone to know that Bosco has begun to do so, so it looks like the storm has passed. In two instances recently, in a couple of sentences he explained exactly why my post was being rejected and I was able to then decide whether to edit and resubmit or withdraw. In one case I withdrew, in another I edited and resubmitted.
Now lets hope the other moderators will follow his example.
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-07 02:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Cornel,

At the outset, let me assure you that I have a lot of respect for you and commend you for your achievements, which you recounted on Goanet.? Having said?that, sometimes you seem to have a difficult time to get a message.? In fact in my review of your many writings, you have a knack of perceiving just the opposite of the sum total of what is written.

I still have?not gotten over?your innumerable posts about widespread casteism among Goan Catholics. You then yourself wrote that casteism affects only?"5% of Catholic Goans". You claimed many posters wrote to you with examples and supporting you on this issue. None of them wrote a post on Goanet?after you requested them for veracity of your claims.? This is just one example of some of your writing themes.? Please do not resurrect these issues as I have no intention of continuing to dialog any of them. Yet, I just wanted to point out the problem.

The questions now are: Do you know when people are being polite? Do you realize when?you abuse someones graciousness?? Looking at what you have written below and this whole issue, you clearly have?abused the moderator's hospitality. You pick and choose what suits you.?Contrary to what you write below, I do not agree with your stand.

Bosco, Fred and I sincerely want you (and others) to continue to participate in Goanet. Yet, this is not an invitation to be a 'pain in the you-know-where'. This applies to me and to all the language-snobs, religion-snobs and science-snobs. Our posts should?aim to promote commonality and understanding; and not to start and continue controversies.?

I consider?you a friend. And the above is what buddies are meant for.?I hope you and others take this in a positive?and well-meaning intention in which it is written.? This includes my suggestions in prior post that,?prolific?posters,?and me, may want to take a break and seek other pastimes.? But may be?this supurlo Goenkar does not know much!
??
Mog Assundi
Regards, GL

------------?CORNEL DACOSTA

Hi Gilbert, Thank you? .... Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not.

I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves.?And at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-07 03:57:30 UTC
Permalink
RESPONSE: As much as you may try to frame the exchange here, the fact
remains:

#1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message.

#2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than once
that your message was rejected as "inappropriate", you failed to correct
Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message really said.

As I said earlier, we only have your messages to Goanet to consider. That is
all there is to understand. As simple as that!!

If you would like to pursue this discussion further, please take it up with
Goanet-Admin.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-07 15:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
#1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message.
I publicly stated that I was asked to send my questions to the Goanet moderators, not knowing that the address "Goanet-Admin at lists.goanet.org" did not refer to Goanet moderators, and not knowing that the identity of Goanet moderators was meant to be kept a secret.

On reading the rejection notice again (please see below) I now realize that what Bosco has claimed is not true as well, because all I was told was that "administrative requests" such as "requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc" should be sent to goanet-admin at goanet.org

My questions to Goanet with request for input from the rest of the 9000 or so non-moderating Goanetters clearly did not fall under the category of an "administrative request".
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
#2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than >once that your message was rejected as "inappropriate", you failed to >correct Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message >really said.
The above accusation is false.

I had no reason to correct Cornel because he was absolutely right in claiming that my message was rejected as "inappropriate".

I quote below the relevant excerpt from the moderator?s rejection notice:

BEGIN QUOTE
The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request:

"Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator. Administrative requests (such as requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc.) should be sent to goanet-admin at goanet.org "
END QUOTE

Please note that the word ?inappropriate? figures prominently in the above quote.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-10-01 19:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Mario responds:
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff, Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster like that?
Herman wrote:
If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.
Mario responds:
If there were instructions or explanations in the rejection notice, we would be able to do so, but there are none, with rare exceptions. That is precisely why some of us have been asking for explanations.
Besides, in all my years on Goanet, no one I have written to at Goanet Administration or Goanet-Owner at lists.goanet.org has ever replied to my questions.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-02 04:07:23 UTC
Permalink
From: "Herman Carneiro"
Post by Mario Goveia
Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an
explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators
have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you
have chosen to ignore.
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff,
Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your
assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an
explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and
meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster
like that?
RESPONSE: Mario....Not hell but heaven........lets just sing Alleluia!!! I
have the perfect solution you desire. I will personally ensure you get the
exact reason why your message(s) are being rejected. All you have to do is
donate US$50 to Goanet each month. This will buy you explanations to a
maximum of 10 rejected messages each month. The money has to be paid on the
1st of each month failing which all you will get is "Inappropriate".

Here is the link to make a donation to Goanet:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=_QgUyKYylIQnPSWhTo6D0RHp6_rrgnPzNs_Bq77ywdA0O9MMJlAqYEXJ5ae&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f38432c9462fe731381a7a80e09148cd4d65d984db31b77c2

or

Visit www.goanet.org and click on the orange "Make a Donation" button in the
right pane.

Yes Mario, I am back in the house and your InBox is going to be busier than
its been in the past 6 months. Only YOU can help yourself.

Deal or No Deal??

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-01 16:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he >has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he >was provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow >through on the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned >with who rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. >Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. >This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being >used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false. I pointed out that the fact that nobody signed the rejection message, and I gave my hunch as to who the anonymous moderator might be, based on past experience.

Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions, I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by emailing the same questions back to him. My Goanet post had also asked for input from the 9000 or so non-moderating members of Goanet, input that none of the moderators could possibly provide. BTW, my questions were derived from concerns raised by other Goanetters.

Cheers,

Santosh
Miguel Braganza
2008-10-01 11:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Dear Herman,
?
Perhaps, your post will bring down the curtain on this discussion ... and put many a active poster on call.?
?
I do not believe that anyone who states a fact should be said to be casting aspersions. there may be a disagreement in the perspective as in the classic example of a "half bottle of Scotch": if it is one's own it is already "half empty", if it is your friend's bottle it is still "half full". The one who insists that the bottle is still half full is not casting aspersions, he is just stating a fact ...from his perspective. Ditto for the good job that the Goanet Admin is doing. Do you want to deny the pimples and the warts on the pretty face of the Admin? I am sure you don't.
?
You wrote: "Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore."
By that yardstick, a habitual drinker's request for assistance must be rejected ... even if all he is asking for is a glass of water! Is that it?
?
Comrades are likely to be up in arms as the Oligarchy of the Goanet Admin team has been clearly re-stated by you. "Our decisions will be final on the matter." Those living as second class citizens in foreign lands and in school boardings in Goa may find nothing amiss with that. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
PS
On the original thread,?Dom writes about crabs. On 29 Sept. Nitin Kunkolienkar and others made an allusion to that because Goans are protesting against mega projects and SEZs. ?Jason Keith Fernandes has a beautiful take on the basket of crabs in the GT today. I will post it later in the day.


Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Message-ID:
??? <bbbd5103bf13fe4a3693a6be2114dac7.squirrel at webmail.goanet.org>
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org? We'd like to see Goanet's discussions be of
high quality.

I'd like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services.?

We've built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible.?

The issues:

? Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.


If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message.? Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

?This unsavory culture of singling out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and we will not allow it.??Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.? We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 01:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.
-snip-
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??
Bosco,
No one is asking for the rules to be eased.
What is needed is the exact opposite.


The moderators?have to?make sure that the rules are?consistently applied. They
just cannot, for example, allow the worst known words in the Konkani language
to be posted here. They certainly cannot keep quiet when members complain
about the foul?words used.?Keeping quiet has never resolved any issue.


Another issue is that some posters are only here to antagonize people. These
personalities are well known to?ALL the moderators. I just cannot understand why
such people are allowed to keep posting their?venom year in and year out. Every
post of mine that was rejected, was?my retort to these poisonous?posts.?Almost
everyone else complaining about rejected posts is doing so?because?he has
experienced?this problem.


A third issue is that, if there are rules here, surely they have to be applied to all?
It is quite obvious that some posters (and may I add that these are not moderators)
have their?posts appearing on Goanet in real time.


Once again, take a look at the number of?complaints that are now?being sent in.
JoeGoaUK went as far as to?stop posting for a week.
The result for his act of?protest?
Nothing!


Mervyn3.0



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Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 02:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman Carneiro
Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for.? While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason.?
Herman,
If we are?assured that it?requires more than one moderator to reject
a post (or a reply to a post),?I have no problems accepting the rejected
posts with only a "Rejected by moderator number one and?moderator number
five," for example. There is no need for the moderator to sign his/her name on
the rejected message.?A one line reason for the rejections is?essential.?
The concern here was that a single moderator?could reject a post at his own
discretion and without the?other moderators?knowing.
Post by Herman Carneiro
We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.?We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.
?
Yes, sometimes all it takes is transparency to?iron out problems.


Mervyn3.0



__________________________________________________________________
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Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-03 22:25:06 UTC
Permalink
For reasons unknown (???), this poster has potrayed my text as his own in
this thread:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html
Post by Santosh Helekar
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he
has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he
was provided an explanation in the rejection note
This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being
used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false.
RESPONSE: TRUE!! There are no implications just your messages to Goanet to
go by.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators
himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions,
I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by
emailing the same questions back to him.
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to
direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org . All other gratuituous
comments above are ignored.

Goanet Admin is happy to respond as best we can to any queries raised by
Goanetters. The 3-4 gentlemen who have persistently tried to tie us up with
endless emails (that has included abuse) will NOT get any response or
explanations. I will re-state myself - Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4
gentlemen i refer to.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-04 04:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn,

I dont know what you mean when you say 'real time'.

1. Nobody, repeat nobody, on Goanet is on unmoderated post.
2. If a moderator is online when someone posts, and is moderating at that
time, chances are that an uncomplicated post will go through almost
instantaneously

Considering everything [1] else you have said is true for a blind moment, I
have one question, one piece of information and one request of you. Please
oblige.

Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??

Information: If you were antagonized by a 'poisonous post', it does not
necessarily mean you reply in an even more 'poisonous' response albeit I'm
not certain how we would measure 'poisonous'. The Rules clearly state you
can bring your grievance to the attention of Goanet Admin or please see
Request.

Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; dont fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.

- Three days in October and we have over 170 messages in the archives
- We receive approx 500 messages each day including SPAM
- Moderators have to read all messages before acting on them

It takes a fair amount of time for the 7 people who help moderate Goanet at
different times during the day/week as and when time permits.

There is plenty of work to be done. I am getting off this carousel as I
think we have afforded adequate time to this issue and we can move on. We
always appreciate feedback from Goanetters. For those that want to continue
discussing this issue with Goanet Admin or want to provide any feedback,
please write to goanet-admin at goanet.org

Thank you again, Mervyn.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org


Ref [1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081424.html
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-04 11:58:24 UTC
Permalink
If the following fact is true -?"regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects" on Goanet, I would suggest the moderators should find?more dramatic / drastic means to deal with the authors of these innumerable inappropriate posts. This would be better than the moderators wasting their valuable time rejecting posts with or without an explanation.?
?
If there are "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", likely the moderators have automated their response with a press of a button. And who can blame them for that?? Of course, the "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", may be?just another exaggeration that we often see on Goanet, when fiction?replaces fact.
?
To Bosco, given your post below, our sympathies are with you and other moderators.? You have shown the ability to remain polite in the most hostile exchanges. I want the moderators?to remember for every poster who resents your characterization of their post as "inappropriate", there are many posters who thank you from saving them from self-embarrassment. And?there are a whole group of Goanetters who thank you for sparing us from these "inappropriate posts". The fact that Goanet has survived successfully for so long, is in itself a credit to the moderators. Many Goan chat sites have seen their demise or are on a respirator with no activity.
?
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations that?the moderators?can automatically added to the "inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute for reasoning"
?
And there is the whole selection of "choice phraseology" that our English professor from Goa, Augusto Pinto, has kindly provided, starting with obnubliating.:=))
Regards, GL
?
?
----------- CORNEL DACOSTA
?
I was not attacking the person but the systemic mess that Goanet is in regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects.

?
------------- Bosco - Goanet Volunteer

To paraphrase an infamous clich, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.? There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a?couple 'experts' in this field.
?
The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules.??
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-05 00:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??
Bosco,
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn.
I think that life is to short to go around?antagonizing?people. I?certainly
do not want to be?a provoker.?Maybe in trying to amuse, I have crossed the
line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; don't fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.
I always reply in private to an exceptional post.
The problem is that when I tell a poster that his language is unacceptable, the reply
I get is in worse language. Prime example is our photographer friend. And may I add
that I was not the only person to experience foul?language from him. Several other
Goanetter's have posted what they have experienced when they?told him privately
what they felt about his language.?


There?are?serial/repeat offenders here. All you have to?do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of?the moderators?time.


Mervyn3.0


__________________________________________________________________
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CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-10-05 11:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert
Thank you for indicating that brief reasons for post rejections by Goanet moderators would be helpful when they are deemed "inappropriate". That is indeed all critics of Goanet moderation have been asking for since Jan/Feb 2008. I am glad you have noted this point and responded to it even if through satire!

Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not.

I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves. Perhaps Boso in particular can now expound on his current vacuous view that "hell hath no fury like a poster scorned". I emphasise that, I didn't barge into Goanet and at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so as it would not be in Goanet's interests to do so. Perhaps hell hath no fury like a moderator scorned and exposed so easily!
Cornel
From: Gilbert Lawrence <gilbert2114 at yahoo.com>
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations
that?the moderators?can automatically added to the
"inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are
responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute
for reasoning"
???
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-06 02:14:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mervyn,
?
Goanet moderators advise posters who aim to be amusing to use a smiley :=)).? I do not see that in your alleged?non-provocative posts that you label as "amusing?+/- having crossed the line".
?
As far as Goan posts without the :=)) being amusing, I assumed that the author of those post was a?'Goan on steroids'.:=))? If one retorts with similar words / explanation, then he / she?needs a screw-driver to adjust?their 'humor button'.?
?
This advice?is also directed?to some posters who have a compulsory need to respond to? posts which they imagine is?directed to them. The good news is their reply suggest they took the?message personally.
?
I like your idea of 'special treatment' to the "serial offenders".? Can you imagine the poor moderators have to repeatedly read their posts?? I can only call?that pirachit / penance.? No wonder the moderators get a 'thought block' and cannot respond with a one-liner. Likely the moderators go for the feni or scotch?after reading those posts.?
?
Glad none of the 'sensitive' posters, on receiving the many rejections?of inappropriate posts, have not?resorted to something more drastic; like -?taking a bucket of cold water and dipping their head three times and taking it out twice.:=)). Looking at the support the disgruntled posters received, it appears they are not getting much credibility. Yet, they have only themselves to blame. For a time, they felt they were making cumulative headway. But their difficult-to-prove stories?was their undoing, in addition to their suggestion?that they were 'God's gift to Goanet' - which they may be.:=))
?
Regards, GL
?
-----------------?Mervyn Lobo
?
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn. I think that life is to short to go around antagonizing people. I certainly do not want to be a provoker. May be in trying to amuse, I have crossed the line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
?
There are serial / repeat offenders here. All you have to do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of the moderators time.
?
------------------ Bosco wrote:
?
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and?provoke fellow Goanetters?
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-06 02:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Santosh Helekar
"Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators." --- Santosh
This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not
refer to the Goanet moderators.
RESPONSE: Your statement is FALSE because what you stated in your message
[1] "...the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the
Goanet moderators" is FALSE.

You were not advised to "send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators" as
much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your
questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that!
Post by Santosh Helekar
Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said
RESPONSE: You are very welcome. You are afterall of superior intelligence.
We are proud of you.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the
names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)?
RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; Goanet
Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members can moderate
Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been published (Herman
has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are published here
infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin and Goanet
Moderators are volunteers.
Post by Santosh Helekar
I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so
mysterious and complicated.
RESPONSE: Even the brightest live and learn everyday, dont we??

If you have any further administrative queries, please direct them to Goanet
Admin - goanet-admin at goanet.org and not to the discussion/ mailing list.
Thank you.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org



[1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html

[2]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-September/081358.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-06 12:01:51 UTC
Permalink
RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; >Goanet Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members >can moderate Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been
published (Herman has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are >published here infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin
and Goanet Moderators are volunteers.
This response comes as a surprise to me, and I am sure, to many others, including some of us who have been members of Goanet for more than a decade. I am glad I asked the question to which the above was the answer. Let me see if I understand what this answer says:

1. Goanet Admin is not the same as Goanet moderators.

2. There are some moderators whose names we do not know, and Herman, the Chair of the Goanet Admin Team will not disclose who they are. Their names have never been published by anybody. All we know about this mysterious group of people is the following from Herman:

"We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on different continents."
.......Herman

3. Only the names of the Goanet Admin Team have been disclosed. They can choose to also moderate Goanet if they want.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-10-06 14:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:47:34 -0400
From: "Bosco - Goanet Volunteer" <bosco at goanet.org>
You were not advised to "send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators" as
much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your
questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that!
Mario responds:
Thanks to Bosco for clearing up the difference between Goanet moderators and Goanet Administrators.
I'm not sure what all the sturm and drang is about when all we had asked for was for the moderators to identify themselves and explain why they are rejecting a post.
I would like everyone to know that Bosco has begun to do so, so it looks like the storm has passed. In two instances recently, in a couple of sentences he explained exactly why my post was being rejected and I was able to then decide whether to edit and resubmit or withdraw. In one case I withdrew, in another I edited and resubmitted.
Now lets hope the other moderators will follow his example.
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-07 02:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Cornel,

At the outset, let me assure you that I have a lot of respect for you and commend you for your achievements, which you recounted on Goanet.? Having said?that, sometimes you seem to have a difficult time to get a message.? In fact in my review of your many writings, you have a knack of perceiving just the opposite of the sum total of what is written.

I still have?not gotten over?your innumerable posts about widespread casteism among Goan Catholics. You then yourself wrote that casteism affects only?"5% of Catholic Goans". You claimed many posters wrote to you with examples and supporting you on this issue. None of them wrote a post on Goanet?after you requested them for veracity of your claims.? This is just one example of some of your writing themes.? Please do not resurrect these issues as I have no intention of continuing to dialog any of them. Yet, I just wanted to point out the problem.

The questions now are: Do you know when people are being polite? Do you realize when?you abuse someones graciousness?? Looking at what you have written below and this whole issue, you clearly have?abused the moderator's hospitality. You pick and choose what suits you.?Contrary to what you write below, I do not agree with your stand.

Bosco, Fred and I sincerely want you (and others) to continue to participate in Goanet. Yet, this is not an invitation to be a 'pain in the you-know-where'. This applies to me and to all the language-snobs, religion-snobs and science-snobs. Our posts should?aim to promote commonality and understanding; and not to start and continue controversies.?

I consider?you a friend. And the above is what buddies are meant for.?I hope you and others take this in a positive?and well-meaning intention in which it is written.? This includes my suggestions in prior post that,?prolific?posters,?and me, may want to take a break and seek other pastimes.? But may be?this supurlo Goenkar does not know much!
??
Mog Assundi
Regards, GL

------------?CORNEL DACOSTA

Hi Gilbert, Thank you? .... Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not.

I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves.?And at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-07 03:57:30 UTC
Permalink
RESPONSE: As much as you may try to frame the exchange here, the fact
remains:

#1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message.

#2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than once
that your message was rejected as "inappropriate", you failed to correct
Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message really said.

As I said earlier, we only have your messages to Goanet to consider. That is
all there is to understand. As simple as that!!

If you would like to pursue this discussion further, please take it up with
Goanet-Admin.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-07 15:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
#1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message.
I publicly stated that I was asked to send my questions to the Goanet moderators, not knowing that the address "Goanet-Admin at lists.goanet.org" did not refer to Goanet moderators, and not knowing that the identity of Goanet moderators was meant to be kept a secret.

On reading the rejection notice again (please see below) I now realize that what Bosco has claimed is not true as well, because all I was told was that "administrative requests" such as "requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc" should be sent to goanet-admin at goanet.org

My questions to Goanet with request for input from the rest of the 9000 or so non-moderating Goanetters clearly did not fall under the category of an "administrative request".
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
#2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than >once that your message was rejected as "inappropriate", you failed to >correct Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message >really said.
The above accusation is false.

I had no reason to correct Cornel because he was absolutely right in claiming that my message was rejected as "inappropriate".

I quote below the relevant excerpt from the moderator?s rejection notice:

BEGIN QUOTE
The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request:

"Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator. Administrative requests (such as requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc.) should be sent to goanet-admin at goanet.org "
END QUOTE

Please note that the word ?inappropriate? figures prominently in the above quote.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-10-01 19:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Mario responds:
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff, Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster like that?
Herman wrote:
If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.
Mario responds:
If there were instructions or explanations in the rejection notice, we would be able to do so, but there are none, with rare exceptions. That is precisely why some of us have been asking for explanations.
Besides, in all my years on Goanet, no one I have written to at Goanet Administration or Goanet-Owner at lists.goanet.org has ever replied to my questions.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-02 04:07:23 UTC
Permalink
From: "Herman Carneiro"
Post by Mario Goveia
Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an
explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators
have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you
have chosen to ignore.
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff,
Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your
assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an
explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and
meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster
like that?
RESPONSE: Mario....Not hell but heaven........lets just sing Alleluia!!! I
have the perfect solution you desire. I will personally ensure you get the
exact reason why your message(s) are being rejected. All you have to do is
donate US$50 to Goanet each month. This will buy you explanations to a
maximum of 10 rejected messages each month. The money has to be paid on the
1st of each month failing which all you will get is "Inappropriate".

Here is the link to make a donation to Goanet:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=_QgUyKYylIQnPSWhTo6D0RHp6_rrgnPzNs_Bq77ywdA0O9MMJlAqYEXJ5ae&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f38432c9462fe731381a7a80e09148cd4d65d984db31b77c2

or

Visit www.goanet.org and click on the orange "Make a Donation" button in the
right pane.

Yes Mario, I am back in the house and your InBox is going to be busier than
its been in the past 6 months. Only YOU can help yourself.

Deal or No Deal??

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-01 16:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he >has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he >was provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow >through on the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned >with who rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. >Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. >This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being >used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false. I pointed out that the fact that nobody signed the rejection message, and I gave my hunch as to who the anonymous moderator might be, based on past experience.

Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions, I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by emailing the same questions back to him. My Goanet post had also asked for input from the 9000 or so non-moderating members of Goanet, input that none of the moderators could possibly provide. BTW, my questions were derived from concerns raised by other Goanetters.

Cheers,

Santosh
Miguel Braganza
2008-10-01 11:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Dear Herman,
?
Perhaps, your post will bring down the curtain on this discussion ... and put many a active poster on call.?
?
I do not believe that anyone who states a fact should be said to be casting aspersions. there may be a disagreement in the perspective as in the classic example of a "half bottle of Scotch": if it is one's own it is already "half empty", if it is your friend's bottle it is still "half full". The one who insists that the bottle is still half full is not casting aspersions, he is just stating a fact ...from his perspective. Ditto for the good job that the Goanet Admin is doing. Do you want to deny the pimples and the warts on the pretty face of the Admin? I am sure you don't.
?
You wrote: "Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore."
By that yardstick, a habitual drinker's request for assistance must be rejected ... even if all he is asking for is a glass of water! Is that it?
?
Comrades are likely to be up in arms as the Oligarchy of the Goanet Admin team has been clearly re-stated by you. "Our decisions will be final on the matter." Those living as second class citizens in foreign lands and in school boardings in Goa may find nothing amiss with that. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
PS
On the original thread,?Dom writes about crabs. On 29 Sept. Nitin Kunkolienkar and others made an allusion to that because Goans are protesting against mega projects and SEZs. ?Jason Keith Fernandes has a beautiful take on the basket of crabs in the GT today. I will post it later in the day.


Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Message-ID:
??? <bbbd5103bf13fe4a3693a6be2114dac7.squirrel at webmail.goanet.org>
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org? We'd like to see Goanet's discussions be of
high quality.

I'd like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services.?

We've built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible.?

The issues:

? Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.


If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message.? Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

?This unsavory culture of singling out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and we will not allow it.??Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.? We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 01:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.
-snip-
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??
Bosco,
No one is asking for the rules to be eased.
What is needed is the exact opposite.


The moderators?have to?make sure that the rules are?consistently applied. They
just cannot, for example, allow the worst known words in the Konkani language
to be posted here. They certainly cannot keep quiet when members complain
about the foul?words used.?Keeping quiet has never resolved any issue.


Another issue is that some posters are only here to antagonize people. These
personalities are well known to?ALL the moderators. I just cannot understand why
such people are allowed to keep posting their?venom year in and year out. Every
post of mine that was rejected, was?my retort to these poisonous?posts.?Almost
everyone else complaining about rejected posts is doing so?because?he has
experienced?this problem.


A third issue is that, if there are rules here, surely they have to be applied to all?
It is quite obvious that some posters (and may I add that these are not moderators)
have their?posts appearing on Goanet in real time.


Once again, take a look at the number of?complaints that are now?being sent in.
JoeGoaUK went as far as to?stop posting for a week.
The result for his act of?protest?
Nothing!


Mervyn3.0



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Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 02:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman Carneiro
Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for.? While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason.?
Herman,
If we are?assured that it?requires more than one moderator to reject
a post (or a reply to a post),?I have no problems accepting the rejected
posts with only a "Rejected by moderator number one and?moderator number
five," for example. There is no need for the moderator to sign his/her name on
the rejected message.?A one line reason for the rejections is?essential.?
The concern here was that a single moderator?could reject a post at his own
discretion and without the?other moderators?knowing.
Post by Herman Carneiro
We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.?We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.
?
Yes, sometimes all it takes is transparency to?iron out problems.


Mervyn3.0



__________________________________________________________________
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Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-03 22:25:06 UTC
Permalink
For reasons unknown (???), this poster has potrayed my text as his own in
this thread:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html
Post by Santosh Helekar
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he
has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he
was provided an explanation in the rejection note
This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being
used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false.
RESPONSE: TRUE!! There are no implications just your messages to Goanet to
go by.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators
himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions,
I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by
emailing the same questions back to him.
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to
direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org . All other gratuituous
comments above are ignored.

Goanet Admin is happy to respond as best we can to any queries raised by
Goanetters. The 3-4 gentlemen who have persistently tried to tie us up with
endless emails (that has included abuse) will NOT get any response or
explanations. I will re-state myself - Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4
gentlemen i refer to.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-04 04:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn,

I dont know what you mean when you say 'real time'.

1. Nobody, repeat nobody, on Goanet is on unmoderated post.
2. If a moderator is online when someone posts, and is moderating at that
time, chances are that an uncomplicated post will go through almost
instantaneously

Considering everything [1] else you have said is true for a blind moment, I
have one question, one piece of information and one request of you. Please
oblige.

Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??

Information: If you were antagonized by a 'poisonous post', it does not
necessarily mean you reply in an even more 'poisonous' response albeit I'm
not certain how we would measure 'poisonous'. The Rules clearly state you
can bring your grievance to the attention of Goanet Admin or please see
Request.

Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; dont fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.

- Three days in October and we have over 170 messages in the archives
- We receive approx 500 messages each day including SPAM
- Moderators have to read all messages before acting on them

It takes a fair amount of time for the 7 people who help moderate Goanet at
different times during the day/week as and when time permits.

There is plenty of work to be done. I am getting off this carousel as I
think we have afforded adequate time to this issue and we can move on. We
always appreciate feedback from Goanetters. For those that want to continue
discussing this issue with Goanet Admin or want to provide any feedback,
please write to goanet-admin at goanet.org

Thank you again, Mervyn.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org


Ref [1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081424.html
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-04 11:58:24 UTC
Permalink
If the following fact is true -?"regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects" on Goanet, I would suggest the moderators should find?more dramatic / drastic means to deal with the authors of these innumerable inappropriate posts. This would be better than the moderators wasting their valuable time rejecting posts with or without an explanation.?
?
If there are "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", likely the moderators have automated their response with a press of a button. And who can blame them for that?? Of course, the "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", may be?just another exaggeration that we often see on Goanet, when fiction?replaces fact.
?
To Bosco, given your post below, our sympathies are with you and other moderators.? You have shown the ability to remain polite in the most hostile exchanges. I want the moderators?to remember for every poster who resents your characterization of their post as "inappropriate", there are many posters who thank you from saving them from self-embarrassment. And?there are a whole group of Goanetters who thank you for sparing us from these "inappropriate posts". The fact that Goanet has survived successfully for so long, is in itself a credit to the moderators. Many Goan chat sites have seen their demise or are on a respirator with no activity.
?
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations that?the moderators?can automatically added to the "inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute for reasoning"
?
And there is the whole selection of "choice phraseology" that our English professor from Goa, Augusto Pinto, has kindly provided, starting with obnubliating.:=))
Regards, GL
?
?
----------- CORNEL DACOSTA
?
I was not attacking the person but the systemic mess that Goanet is in regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects.

?
------------- Bosco - Goanet Volunteer

To paraphrase an infamous clich, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.? There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a?couple 'experts' in this field.
?
The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules.??
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-05 00:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??
Bosco,
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn.
I think that life is to short to go around?antagonizing?people. I?certainly
do not want to be?a provoker.?Maybe in trying to amuse, I have crossed the
line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; don't fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.
I always reply in private to an exceptional post.
The problem is that when I tell a poster that his language is unacceptable, the reply
I get is in worse language. Prime example is our photographer friend. And may I add
that I was not the only person to experience foul?language from him. Several other
Goanetter's have posted what they have experienced when they?told him privately
what they felt about his language.?


There?are?serial/repeat offenders here. All you have to?do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of?the moderators?time.


Mervyn3.0


__________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-10-05 11:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert
Thank you for indicating that brief reasons for post rejections by Goanet moderators would be helpful when they are deemed "inappropriate". That is indeed all critics of Goanet moderation have been asking for since Jan/Feb 2008. I am glad you have noted this point and responded to it even if through satire!

Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not.

I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves. Perhaps Boso in particular can now expound on his current vacuous view that "hell hath no fury like a poster scorned". I emphasise that, I didn't barge into Goanet and at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so as it would not be in Goanet's interests to do so. Perhaps hell hath no fury like a moderator scorned and exposed so easily!
Cornel
From: Gilbert Lawrence <gilbert2114 at yahoo.com>
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations
that?the moderators?can automatically added to the
"inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are
responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute
for reasoning"
???
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-06 02:14:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mervyn,
?
Goanet moderators advise posters who aim to be amusing to use a smiley :=)).? I do not see that in your alleged?non-provocative posts that you label as "amusing?+/- having crossed the line".
?
As far as Goan posts without the :=)) being amusing, I assumed that the author of those post was a?'Goan on steroids'.:=))? If one retorts with similar words / explanation, then he / she?needs a screw-driver to adjust?their 'humor button'.?
?
This advice?is also directed?to some posters who have a compulsory need to respond to? posts which they imagine is?directed to them. The good news is their reply suggest they took the?message personally.
?
I like your idea of 'special treatment' to the "serial offenders".? Can you imagine the poor moderators have to repeatedly read their posts?? I can only call?that pirachit / penance.? No wonder the moderators get a 'thought block' and cannot respond with a one-liner. Likely the moderators go for the feni or scotch?after reading those posts.?
?
Glad none of the 'sensitive' posters, on receiving the many rejections?of inappropriate posts, have not?resorted to something more drastic; like -?taking a bucket of cold water and dipping their head three times and taking it out twice.:=)). Looking at the support the disgruntled posters received, it appears they are not getting much credibility. Yet, they have only themselves to blame. For a time, they felt they were making cumulative headway. But their difficult-to-prove stories?was their undoing, in addition to their suggestion?that they were 'God's gift to Goanet' - which they may be.:=))
?
Regards, GL
?
-----------------?Mervyn Lobo
?
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn. I think that life is to short to go around antagonizing people. I certainly do not want to be a provoker. May be in trying to amuse, I have crossed the line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
?
There are serial / repeat offenders here. All you have to do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of the moderators time.
?
------------------ Bosco wrote:
?
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and?provoke fellow Goanetters?
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-06 02:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Santosh Helekar
"Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators." --- Santosh
This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not
refer to the Goanet moderators.
RESPONSE: Your statement is FALSE because what you stated in your message
[1] "...the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the
Goanet moderators" is FALSE.

You were not advised to "send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators" as
much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your
questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that!
Post by Santosh Helekar
Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said
RESPONSE: You are very welcome. You are afterall of superior intelligence.
We are proud of you.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the
names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)?
RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; Goanet
Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members can moderate
Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been published (Herman
has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are published here
infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin and Goanet
Moderators are volunteers.
Post by Santosh Helekar
I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so
mysterious and complicated.
RESPONSE: Even the brightest live and learn everyday, dont we??

If you have any further administrative queries, please direct them to Goanet
Admin - goanet-admin at goanet.org and not to the discussion/ mailing list.
Thank you.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org



[1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html

[2]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-September/081358.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-06 12:01:51 UTC
Permalink
RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; >Goanet Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members >can moderate Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been
published (Herman has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are >published here infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin
and Goanet Moderators are volunteers.
This response comes as a surprise to me, and I am sure, to many others, including some of us who have been members of Goanet for more than a decade. I am glad I asked the question to which the above was the answer. Let me see if I understand what this answer says:

1. Goanet Admin is not the same as Goanet moderators.

2. There are some moderators whose names we do not know, and Herman, the Chair of the Goanet Admin Team will not disclose who they are. Their names have never been published by anybody. All we know about this mysterious group of people is the following from Herman:

"We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on different continents."
.......Herman

3. Only the names of the Goanet Admin Team have been disclosed. They can choose to also moderate Goanet if they want.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-10-06 14:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:47:34 -0400
From: "Bosco - Goanet Volunteer" <bosco at goanet.org>
You were not advised to "send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators" as
much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your
questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that!
Mario responds:
Thanks to Bosco for clearing up the difference between Goanet moderators and Goanet Administrators.
I'm not sure what all the sturm and drang is about when all we had asked for was for the moderators to identify themselves and explain why they are rejecting a post.
I would like everyone to know that Bosco has begun to do so, so it looks like the storm has passed. In two instances recently, in a couple of sentences he explained exactly why my post was being rejected and I was able to then decide whether to edit and resubmit or withdraw. In one case I withdrew, in another I edited and resubmitted.
Now lets hope the other moderators will follow his example.
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-07 02:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Cornel,

At the outset, let me assure you that I have a lot of respect for you and commend you for your achievements, which you recounted on Goanet.? Having said?that, sometimes you seem to have a difficult time to get a message.? In fact in my review of your many writings, you have a knack of perceiving just the opposite of the sum total of what is written.

I still have?not gotten over?your innumerable posts about widespread casteism among Goan Catholics. You then yourself wrote that casteism affects only?"5% of Catholic Goans". You claimed many posters wrote to you with examples and supporting you on this issue. None of them wrote a post on Goanet?after you requested them for veracity of your claims.? This is just one example of some of your writing themes.? Please do not resurrect these issues as I have no intention of continuing to dialog any of them. Yet, I just wanted to point out the problem.

The questions now are: Do you know when people are being polite? Do you realize when?you abuse someones graciousness?? Looking at what you have written below and this whole issue, you clearly have?abused the moderator's hospitality. You pick and choose what suits you.?Contrary to what you write below, I do not agree with your stand.

Bosco, Fred and I sincerely want you (and others) to continue to participate in Goanet. Yet, this is not an invitation to be a 'pain in the you-know-where'. This applies to me and to all the language-snobs, religion-snobs and science-snobs. Our posts should?aim to promote commonality and understanding; and not to start and continue controversies.?

I consider?you a friend. And the above is what buddies are meant for.?I hope you and others take this in a positive?and well-meaning intention in which it is written.? This includes my suggestions in prior post that,?prolific?posters,?and me, may want to take a break and seek other pastimes.? But may be?this supurlo Goenkar does not know much!
??
Mog Assundi
Regards, GL

------------?CORNEL DACOSTA

Hi Gilbert, Thank you? .... Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not.

I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves.?And at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-07 03:57:30 UTC
Permalink
RESPONSE: As much as you may try to frame the exchange here, the fact
remains:

#1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message.

#2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than once
that your message was rejected as "inappropriate", you failed to correct
Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message really said.

As I said earlier, we only have your messages to Goanet to consider. That is
all there is to understand. As simple as that!!

If you would like to pursue this discussion further, please take it up with
Goanet-Admin.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-07 15:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
#1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message.
I publicly stated that I was asked to send my questions to the Goanet moderators, not knowing that the address "Goanet-Admin at lists.goanet.org" did not refer to Goanet moderators, and not knowing that the identity of Goanet moderators was meant to be kept a secret.

On reading the rejection notice again (please see below) I now realize that what Bosco has claimed is not true as well, because all I was told was that "administrative requests" such as "requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc" should be sent to goanet-admin at goanet.org

My questions to Goanet with request for input from the rest of the 9000 or so non-moderating Goanetters clearly did not fall under the category of an "administrative request".
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
#2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than >once that your message was rejected as "inappropriate", you failed to >correct Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message >really said.
The above accusation is false.

I had no reason to correct Cornel because he was absolutely right in claiming that my message was rejected as "inappropriate".

I quote below the relevant excerpt from the moderator?s rejection notice:

BEGIN QUOTE
The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request:

"Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator. Administrative requests (such as requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc.) should be sent to goanet-admin at goanet.org "
END QUOTE

Please note that the word ?inappropriate? figures prominently in the above quote.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-10-01 19:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Mario responds:
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff, Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster like that?
Herman wrote:
If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.
Mario responds:
If there were instructions or explanations in the rejection notice, we would be able to do so, but there are none, with rare exceptions. That is precisely why some of us have been asking for explanations.
Besides, in all my years on Goanet, no one I have written to at Goanet Administration or Goanet-Owner at lists.goanet.org has ever replied to my questions.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-02 04:07:23 UTC
Permalink
From: "Herman Carneiro"
Post by Mario Goveia
Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an
explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators
have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you
have chosen to ignore.
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff,
Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your
assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an
explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and
meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster
like that?
RESPONSE: Mario....Not hell but heaven........lets just sing Alleluia!!! I
have the perfect solution you desire. I will personally ensure you get the
exact reason why your message(s) are being rejected. All you have to do is
donate US$50 to Goanet each month. This will buy you explanations to a
maximum of 10 rejected messages each month. The money has to be paid on the
1st of each month failing which all you will get is "Inappropriate".

Here is the link to make a donation to Goanet:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=_QgUyKYylIQnPSWhTo6D0RHp6_rrgnPzNs_Bq77ywdA0O9MMJlAqYEXJ5ae&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f38432c9462fe731381a7a80e09148cd4d65d984db31b77c2

or

Visit www.goanet.org and click on the orange "Make a Donation" button in the
right pane.

Yes Mario, I am back in the house and your InBox is going to be busier than
its been in the past 6 months. Only YOU can help yourself.

Deal or No Deal??

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-01 16:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he >has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he >was provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow >through on the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned >with who rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. >Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. >This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being >used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false. I pointed out that the fact that nobody signed the rejection message, and I gave my hunch as to who the anonymous moderator might be, based on past experience.

Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions, I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by emailing the same questions back to him. My Goanet post had also asked for input from the 9000 or so non-moderating members of Goanet, input that none of the moderators could possibly provide. BTW, my questions were derived from concerns raised by other Goanetters.

Cheers,

Santosh
Miguel Braganza
2008-10-01 11:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Dear Herman,
?
Perhaps, your post will bring down the curtain on this discussion ... and put many a active poster on call.?
?
I do not believe that anyone who states a fact should be said to be casting aspersions. there may be a disagreement in the perspective as in the classic example of a "half bottle of Scotch": if it is one's own it is already "half empty", if it is your friend's bottle it is still "half full". The one who insists that the bottle is still half full is not casting aspersions, he is just stating a fact ...from his perspective. Ditto for the good job that the Goanet Admin is doing. Do you want to deny the pimples and the warts on the pretty face of the Admin? I am sure you don't.
?
You wrote: "Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore."
By that yardstick, a habitual drinker's request for assistance must be rejected ... even if all he is asking for is a glass of water! Is that it?
?
Comrades are likely to be up in arms as the Oligarchy of the Goanet Admin team has been clearly re-stated by you. "Our decisions will be final on the matter." Those living as second class citizens in foreign lands and in school boardings in Goa may find nothing amiss with that. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
PS
On the original thread,?Dom writes about crabs. On 29 Sept. Nitin Kunkolienkar and others made an allusion to that because Goans are protesting against mega projects and SEZs. ?Jason Keith Fernandes has a beautiful take on the basket of crabs in the GT today. I will post it later in the day.


Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Message-ID:
??? <bbbd5103bf13fe4a3693a6be2114dac7.squirrel at webmail.goanet.org>
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org? We'd like to see Goanet's discussions be of
high quality.

I'd like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services.?

We've built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible.?

The issues:

? Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.


If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message.? Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

?This unsavory culture of singling out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and we will not allow it.??Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.? We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 01:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.
-snip-
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??
Bosco,
No one is asking for the rules to be eased.
What is needed is the exact opposite.


The moderators?have to?make sure that the rules are?consistently applied. They
just cannot, for example, allow the worst known words in the Konkani language
to be posted here. They certainly cannot keep quiet when members complain
about the foul?words used.?Keeping quiet has never resolved any issue.


Another issue is that some posters are only here to antagonize people. These
personalities are well known to?ALL the moderators. I just cannot understand why
such people are allowed to keep posting their?venom year in and year out. Every
post of mine that was rejected, was?my retort to these poisonous?posts.?Almost
everyone else complaining about rejected posts is doing so?because?he has
experienced?this problem.


A third issue is that, if there are rules here, surely they have to be applied to all?
It is quite obvious that some posters (and may I add that these are not moderators)
have their?posts appearing on Goanet in real time.


Once again, take a look at the number of?complaints that are now?being sent in.
JoeGoaUK went as far as to?stop posting for a week.
The result for his act of?protest?
Nothing!


Mervyn3.0



__________________________________________________________________
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http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 02:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman Carneiro
Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for.? While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason.?
Herman,
If we are?assured that it?requires more than one moderator to reject
a post (or a reply to a post),?I have no problems accepting the rejected
posts with only a "Rejected by moderator number one and?moderator number
five," for example. There is no need for the moderator to sign his/her name on
the rejected message.?A one line reason for the rejections is?essential.?
The concern here was that a single moderator?could reject a post at his own
discretion and without the?other moderators?knowing.
Post by Herman Carneiro
We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.?We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.
?
Yes, sometimes all it takes is transparency to?iron out problems.


Mervyn3.0



__________________________________________________________________
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Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-03 22:25:06 UTC
Permalink
For reasons unknown (???), this poster has potrayed my text as his own in
this thread:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html
Post by Santosh Helekar
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he
has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he
was provided an explanation in the rejection note
This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being
used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false.
RESPONSE: TRUE!! There are no implications just your messages to Goanet to
go by.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators
himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions,
I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by
emailing the same questions back to him.
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to
direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org . All other gratuituous
comments above are ignored.

Goanet Admin is happy to respond as best we can to any queries raised by
Goanetters. The 3-4 gentlemen who have persistently tried to tie us up with
endless emails (that has included abuse) will NOT get any response or
explanations. I will re-state myself - Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4
gentlemen i refer to.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-04 04:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn,

I dont know what you mean when you say 'real time'.

1. Nobody, repeat nobody, on Goanet is on unmoderated post.
2. If a moderator is online when someone posts, and is moderating at that
time, chances are that an uncomplicated post will go through almost
instantaneously

Considering everything [1] else you have said is true for a blind moment, I
have one question, one piece of information and one request of you. Please
oblige.

Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??

Information: If you were antagonized by a 'poisonous post', it does not
necessarily mean you reply in an even more 'poisonous' response albeit I'm
not certain how we would measure 'poisonous'. The Rules clearly state you
can bring your grievance to the attention of Goanet Admin or please see
Request.

Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; dont fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.

- Three days in October and we have over 170 messages in the archives
- We receive approx 500 messages each day including SPAM
- Moderators have to read all messages before acting on them

It takes a fair amount of time for the 7 people who help moderate Goanet at
different times during the day/week as and when time permits.

There is plenty of work to be done. I am getting off this carousel as I
think we have afforded adequate time to this issue and we can move on. We
always appreciate feedback from Goanetters. For those that want to continue
discussing this issue with Goanet Admin or want to provide any feedback,
please write to goanet-admin at goanet.org

Thank you again, Mervyn.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org


Ref [1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081424.html
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-04 11:58:24 UTC
Permalink
If the following fact is true -?"regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects" on Goanet, I would suggest the moderators should find?more dramatic / drastic means to deal with the authors of these innumerable inappropriate posts. This would be better than the moderators wasting their valuable time rejecting posts with or without an explanation.?
?
If there are "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", likely the moderators have automated their response with a press of a button. And who can blame them for that?? Of course, the "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", may be?just another exaggeration that we often see on Goanet, when fiction?replaces fact.
?
To Bosco, given your post below, our sympathies are with you and other moderators.? You have shown the ability to remain polite in the most hostile exchanges. I want the moderators?to remember for every poster who resents your characterization of their post as "inappropriate", there are many posters who thank you from saving them from self-embarrassment. And?there are a whole group of Goanetters who thank you for sparing us from these "inappropriate posts". The fact that Goanet has survived successfully for so long, is in itself a credit to the moderators. Many Goan chat sites have seen their demise or are on a respirator with no activity.
?
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations that?the moderators?can automatically added to the "inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute for reasoning"
?
And there is the whole selection of "choice phraseology" that our English professor from Goa, Augusto Pinto, has kindly provided, starting with obnubliating.:=))
Regards, GL
?
?
----------- CORNEL DACOSTA
?
I was not attacking the person but the systemic mess that Goanet is in regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects.

?
------------- Bosco - Goanet Volunteer

To paraphrase an infamous clich, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.? There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a?couple 'experts' in this field.
?
The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules.??
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-05 00:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??
Bosco,
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn.
I think that life is to short to go around?antagonizing?people. I?certainly
do not want to be?a provoker.?Maybe in trying to amuse, I have crossed the
line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; don't fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.
I always reply in private to an exceptional post.
The problem is that when I tell a poster that his language is unacceptable, the reply
I get is in worse language. Prime example is our photographer friend. And may I add
that I was not the only person to experience foul?language from him. Several other
Goanetter's have posted what they have experienced when they?told him privately
what they felt about his language.?


There?are?serial/repeat offenders here. All you have to?do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of?the moderators?time.


Mervyn3.0


__________________________________________________________________
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CORNEL DACOSTA
2008-10-05 11:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gilbert
Thank you for indicating that brief reasons for post rejections by Goanet moderators would be helpful when they are deemed "inappropriate". That is indeed all critics of Goanet moderation have been asking for since Jan/Feb 2008. I am glad you have noted this point and responded to it even if through satire!

Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not.

I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves. Perhaps Boso in particular can now expound on his current vacuous view that "hell hath no fury like a poster scorned". I emphasise that, I didn't barge into Goanet and at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so as it would not be in Goanet's interests to do so. Perhaps hell hath no fury like a moderator scorned and exposed so easily!
Cornel
From: Gilbert Lawrence <gilbert2114 at yahoo.com>
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations
that?the moderators?can automatically added to the
"inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are
responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute
for reasoning"
???
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-06 02:14:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mervyn,
?
Goanet moderators advise posters who aim to be amusing to use a smiley :=)).? I do not see that in your alleged?non-provocative posts that you label as "amusing?+/- having crossed the line".
?
As far as Goan posts without the :=)) being amusing, I assumed that the author of those post was a?'Goan on steroids'.:=))? If one retorts with similar words / explanation, then he / she?needs a screw-driver to adjust?their 'humor button'.?
?
This advice?is also directed?to some posters who have a compulsory need to respond to? posts which they imagine is?directed to them. The good news is their reply suggest they took the?message personally.
?
I like your idea of 'special treatment' to the "serial offenders".? Can you imagine the poor moderators have to repeatedly read their posts?? I can only call?that pirachit / penance.? No wonder the moderators get a 'thought block' and cannot respond with a one-liner. Likely the moderators go for the feni or scotch?after reading those posts.?
?
Glad none of the 'sensitive' posters, on receiving the many rejections?of inappropriate posts, have not?resorted to something more drastic; like -?taking a bucket of cold water and dipping their head three times and taking it out twice.:=)). Looking at the support the disgruntled posters received, it appears they are not getting much credibility. Yet, they have only themselves to blame. For a time, they felt they were making cumulative headway. But their difficult-to-prove stories?was their undoing, in addition to their suggestion?that they were 'God's gift to Goanet' - which they may be.:=))
?
Regards, GL
?
-----------------?Mervyn Lobo
?
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn. I think that life is to short to go around antagonizing people. I certainly do not want to be a provoker. May be in trying to amuse, I have crossed the line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
?
There are serial / repeat offenders here. All you have to do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of the moderators time.
?
------------------ Bosco wrote:
?
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and?provoke fellow Goanetters?
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-06 02:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Santosh Helekar
"Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators." --- Santosh
This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not
refer to the Goanet moderators.
RESPONSE: Your statement is FALSE because what you stated in your message
[1] "...the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the
Goanet moderators" is FALSE.

You were not advised to "send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators" as
much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your
questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that!
Post by Santosh Helekar
Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said
RESPONSE: You are very welcome. You are afterall of superior intelligence.
We are proud of you.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the
names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)?
RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; Goanet
Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members can moderate
Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been published (Herman
has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are published here
infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin and Goanet
Moderators are volunteers.
Post by Santosh Helekar
I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so
mysterious and complicated.
RESPONSE: Even the brightest live and learn everyday, dont we??

If you have any further administrative queries, please direct them to Goanet
Admin - goanet-admin at goanet.org and not to the discussion/ mailing list.
Thank you.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org



[1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html

[2]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-September/081358.html
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-06 12:01:51 UTC
Permalink
RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; >Goanet Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members >can moderate Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been
published (Herman has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are >published here infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin
and Goanet Moderators are volunteers.
This response comes as a surprise to me, and I am sure, to many others, including some of us who have been members of Goanet for more than a decade. I am glad I asked the question to which the above was the answer. Let me see if I understand what this answer says:

1. Goanet Admin is not the same as Goanet moderators.

2. There are some moderators whose names we do not know, and Herman, the Chair of the Goanet Admin Team will not disclose who they are. Their names have never been published by anybody. All we know about this mysterious group of people is the following from Herman:

"We?ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our
team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on different continents."
.......Herman

3. Only the names of the Goanet Admin Team have been disclosed. They can choose to also moderate Goanet if they want.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-10-06 14:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:47:34 -0400
From: "Bosco - Goanet Volunteer" <bosco at goanet.org>
You were not advised to "send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators" as
much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your
questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that!
Mario responds:
Thanks to Bosco for clearing up the difference between Goanet moderators and Goanet Administrators.
I'm not sure what all the sturm and drang is about when all we had asked for was for the moderators to identify themselves and explain why they are rejecting a post.
I would like everyone to know that Bosco has begun to do so, so it looks like the storm has passed. In two instances recently, in a couple of sentences he explained exactly why my post was being rejected and I was able to then decide whether to edit and resubmit or withdraw. In one case I withdrew, in another I edited and resubmitted.
Now lets hope the other moderators will follow his example.
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-07 02:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Cornel,

At the outset, let me assure you that I have a lot of respect for you and commend you for your achievements, which you recounted on Goanet.? Having said?that, sometimes you seem to have a difficult time to get a message.? In fact in my review of your many writings, you have a knack of perceiving just the opposite of the sum total of what is written.

I still have?not gotten over?your innumerable posts about widespread casteism among Goan Catholics. You then yourself wrote that casteism affects only?"5% of Catholic Goans". You claimed many posters wrote to you with examples and supporting you on this issue. None of them wrote a post on Goanet?after you requested them for veracity of your claims.? This is just one example of some of your writing themes.? Please do not resurrect these issues as I have no intention of continuing to dialog any of them. Yet, I just wanted to point out the problem.

The questions now are: Do you know when people are being polite? Do you realize when?you abuse someones graciousness?? Looking at what you have written below and this whole issue, you clearly have?abused the moderator's hospitality. You pick and choose what suits you.?Contrary to what you write below, I do not agree with your stand.

Bosco, Fred and I sincerely want you (and others) to continue to participate in Goanet. Yet, this is not an invitation to be a 'pain in the you-know-where'. This applies to me and to all the language-snobs, religion-snobs and science-snobs. Our posts should?aim to promote commonality and understanding; and not to start and continue controversies.?

I consider?you a friend. And the above is what buddies are meant for.?I hope you and others take this in a positive?and well-meaning intention in which it is written.? This includes my suggestions in prior post that,?prolific?posters,?and me, may want to take a break and seek other pastimes.? But may be?this supurlo Goenkar does not know much!
??
Mog Assundi
Regards, GL

------------?CORNEL DACOSTA

Hi Gilbert, Thank you? .... Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not.

I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves.?And at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-07 03:57:30 UTC
Permalink
RESPONSE: As much as you may try to frame the exchange here, the fact
remains:

#1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message.

#2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than once
that your message was rejected as "inappropriate", you failed to correct
Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message really said.

As I said earlier, we only have your messages to Goanet to consider. That is
all there is to understand. As simple as that!!

If you would like to pursue this discussion further, please take it up with
Goanet-Admin.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-07 15:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
#1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message.
I publicly stated that I was asked to send my questions to the Goanet moderators, not knowing that the address "Goanet-Admin at lists.goanet.org" did not refer to Goanet moderators, and not knowing that the identity of Goanet moderators was meant to be kept a secret.

On reading the rejection notice again (please see below) I now realize that what Bosco has claimed is not true as well, because all I was told was that "administrative requests" such as "requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc" should be sent to goanet-admin at goanet.org

My questions to Goanet with request for input from the rest of the 9000 or so non-moderating Goanetters clearly did not fall under the category of an "administrative request".
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
#2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than >once that your message was rejected as "inappropriate", you failed to >correct Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message >really said.
The above accusation is false.

I had no reason to correct Cornel because he was absolutely right in claiming that my message was rejected as "inappropriate".

I quote below the relevant excerpt from the moderator?s rejection notice:

BEGIN QUOTE
The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request:

"Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator. Administrative requests (such as requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc.) should be sent to goanet-admin at goanet.org "
END QUOTE

Please note that the word ?inappropriate? figures prominently in the above quote.

Cheers,

Santosh
Mario Goveia
2008-10-01 19:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we
save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who
state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are
habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.
Mario responds:
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff, Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster like that?
Herman wrote:
If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.
Mario responds:
If there were instructions or explanations in the rejection notice, we would be able to do so, but there are none, with rare exceptions. That is precisely why some of us have been asking for explanations.
Besides, in all my years on Goanet, no one I have written to at Goanet Administration or Goanet-Owner at lists.goanet.org has ever replied to my questions.
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-02 04:07:23 UTC
Permalink
From: "Herman Carneiro"
Post by Mario Goveia
Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an
explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators
have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you
have chosen to ignore.
I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff,
Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your
assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an
explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and
meaningless adjective, "Inappropriate".
Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster
like that?
RESPONSE: Mario....Not hell but heaven........lets just sing Alleluia!!! I
have the perfect solution you desire. I will personally ensure you get the
exact reason why your message(s) are being rejected. All you have to do is
donate US$50 to Goanet each month. This will buy you explanations to a
maximum of 10 rejected messages each month. The money has to be paid on the
1st of each month failing which all you will get is "Inappropriate".

Here is the link to make a donation to Goanet:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=_QgUyKYylIQnPSWhTo6D0RHp6_rrgnPzNs_Bq77ywdA0O9MMJlAqYEXJ5ae&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f38432c9462fe731381a7a80e09148cd4d65d984db31b77c2

or

Visit www.goanet.org and click on the orange "Make a Donation" button in the
right pane.

Yes Mario, I am back in the house and your InBox is going to be busier than
its been in the past 6 months. Only YOU can help yourself.

Deal or No Deal??

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Santosh Helekar
2008-10-01 16:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he >has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he >was provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow >through on the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned >with who rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. >Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. >This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being >used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false. I pointed out that the fact that nobody signed the rejection message, and I gave my hunch as to who the anonymous moderator might be, based on past experience.

Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions, I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by emailing the same questions back to him. My Goanet post had also asked for input from the 9000 or so non-moderating members of Goanet, input that none of the moderators could possibly provide. BTW, my questions were derived from concerns raised by other Goanetters.

Cheers,

Santosh
Miguel Braganza
2008-10-01 11:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Dear Herman,
?
Perhaps, your post will bring down the curtain on this discussion ... and put many a active poster on call.?
?
I do not believe that anyone who states a fact should be said to be casting aspersions. there may be a disagreement in the perspective as in the classic example of a "half bottle of Scotch": if it is one's own it is already "half empty", if it is your friend's bottle it is still "half full". The one who insists that the bottle is still half full is not casting aspersions, he is just stating a fact ...from his perspective. Ditto for the good job that the Goanet Admin is doing. Do you want to deny the pimples and the warts on the pretty face of the Admin? I am sure you don't.
?
You wrote: "Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore."
By that yardstick, a habitual drinker's request for assistance must be rejected ... even if all he is asking for is a glass of water! Is that it?
?
Comrades are likely to be up in arms as the Oligarchy of the Goanet Admin team has been clearly re-stated by you. "Our decisions will be final on the matter." Those living as second class citizens in foreign lands and in school boardings in Goa may find nothing amiss with that. ;-)
?
Mog asundi.
?
Miguel
?
PS
On the original thread,?Dom writes about crabs. On 29 Sept. Nitin Kunkolienkar and others made an allusion to that because Goans are protesting against mega projects and SEZs. ?Jason Keith Fernandes has a beautiful take on the basket of crabs in the GT today. I will post it later in the day.


Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Herman Carneiro" <herman at goanet.org>
Subject: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Message-ID:
??? <bbbd5103bf13fe4a3693a6be2114dac7.squirrel at webmail.goanet.org>
Dear Goanetters,

There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions
on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the
specific issues that have been raised.

First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on
Goanet's website at www.goanet.org? We'd like to see Goanet's discussions be of
high quality.

I'd like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job
and deserve full recognition for their services.?

We've built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible.?

The issues:

? Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you
more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore.


If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection
message and repost your message.? Alternatively, if you have any concerns
please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team.

?This unsavory culture of singling out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and we will not allow it.??Our decisions will be final on the matter.

I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread
but we?ll address the issues internally.

We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.? We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

--
Herman


HERMAN CARNEIRO
Chair
Goanet Admin Team
Goanet-admin at goanet.org
www.goanet.org




From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 01:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are
clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org
and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current
status over years of experience.
-snip-
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters
willing to post as per the rules or not??
Bosco,
No one is asking for the rules to be eased.
What is needed is the exact opposite.


The moderators?have to?make sure that the rules are?consistently applied. They
just cannot, for example, allow the worst known words in the Konkani language
to be posted here. They certainly cannot keep quiet when members complain
about the foul?words used.?Keeping quiet has never resolved any issue.


Another issue is that some posters are only here to antagonize people. These
personalities are well known to?ALL the moderators. I just cannot understand why
such people are allowed to keep posting their?venom year in and year out. Every
post of mine that was rejected, was?my retort to these poisonous?posts.?Almost
everyone else complaining about rejected posts is doing so?because?he has
experienced?this problem.


A third issue is that, if there are rules here, surely they have to be applied to all?
It is quite obvious that some posters (and may I add that these are not moderators)
have their?posts appearing on Goanet in real time.


Once again, take a look at the number of?complaints that are now?being sent in.
JoeGoaUK went as far as to?stop posting for a week.
The result for his act of?protest?
Nothing!


Mervyn3.0



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Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-02 02:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman Carneiro
Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and
lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for.? While moderators are
encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a
requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to
remain anonymous for this very reason.?
Herman,
If we are?assured that it?requires more than one moderator to reject
a post (or a reply to a post),?I have no problems accepting the rejected
posts with only a "Rejected by moderator number one and?moderator number
five," for example. There is no need for the moderator to sign his/her name on
the rejected message.?A one line reason for the rejections is?essential.?
The concern here was that a single moderator?could reject a post at his own
discretion and without the?other moderators?knowing.
Post by Herman Carneiro
We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means
contact us if you have problems.? We?ll do our best to sort out the
issues.?We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best.
?
Yes, sometimes all it takes is transparency to?iron out problems.


Mervyn3.0



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Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-03 22:25:06 UTC
Permalink
For reasons unknown (???), this poster has potrayed my text as his own in
this thread:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html
Post by Santosh Helekar
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he
has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he
was provided an explanation in the rejection note
This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being
used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation.
Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false.
RESPONSE: TRUE!! There are no implications just your messages to Goanet to
go by.
Post by Santosh Helekar
Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my
questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators
himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions,
I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by
emailing the same questions back to him.
RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to
direct his questions to goanet-admin at goanet.org . All other gratuituous
comments above are ignored.

Goanet Admin is happy to respond as best we can to any queries raised by
Goanetters. The 3-4 gentlemen who have persistently tried to tie us up with
endless emails (that has included abuse) will NOT get any response or
explanations. I will re-state myself - Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4
gentlemen i refer to.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
2008-10-04 04:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Mervyn,

I dont know what you mean when you say 'real time'.

1. Nobody, repeat nobody, on Goanet is on unmoderated post.
2. If a moderator is online when someone posts, and is moderating at that
time, chances are that an uncomplicated post will go through almost
instantaneously

Considering everything [1] else you have said is true for a blind moment, I
have one question, one piece of information and one request of you. Please
oblige.

Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??

Information: If you were antagonized by a 'poisonous post', it does not
necessarily mean you reply in an even more 'poisonous' response albeit I'm
not certain how we would measure 'poisonous'. The Rules clearly state you
can bring your grievance to the attention of Goanet Admin or please see
Request.

Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; dont fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.

- Three days in October and we have over 170 messages in the archives
- We receive approx 500 messages each day including SPAM
- Moderators have to read all messages before acting on them

It takes a fair amount of time for the 7 people who help moderate Goanet at
different times during the day/week as and when time permits.

There is plenty of work to be done. I am getting off this carousel as I
think we have afforded adequate time to this issue and we can move on. We
always appreciate feedback from Goanetters. For those that want to continue
discussing this issue with Goanet Admin or want to provide any feedback,
please write to goanet-admin at goanet.org

Thank you again, Mervyn.

- Bosco
Goanet Admin
http://www.goanet.org


Ref [1]
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081424.html
Gilbert Lawrence
2008-10-04 11:58:24 UTC
Permalink
If the following fact is true -?"regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects" on Goanet, I would suggest the moderators should find?more dramatic / drastic means to deal with the authors of these innumerable inappropriate posts. This would be better than the moderators wasting their valuable time rejecting posts with or without an explanation.?
?
If there are "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", likely the moderators have automated their response with a press of a button. And who can blame them for that?? Of course, the "hundreds of unexplained post rejects", may be?just another exaggeration that we often see on Goanet, when fiction?replaces fact.
?
To Bosco, given your post below, our sympathies are with you and other moderators.? You have shown the ability to remain polite in the most hostile exchanges. I want the moderators?to remember for every poster who resents your characterization of their post as "inappropriate", there are many posters who thank you from saving them from self-embarrassment. And?there are a whole group of Goanetters who thank you for sparing us from these "inappropriate posts". The fact that Goanet has survived successfully for so long, is in itself a credit to the moderators. Many Goan chat sites have seen their demise or are on a respirator with no activity.
?
To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations that?the moderators?can automatically added to the "inappropriate post"
?
"confusing"
"substituting chutzpah with learning"
"You have not read or understood the post you are responding to"
"more Xapottam than knowledge"
"same old ... same old"
"More wind than substance"
"The brow-beating in your post?is a poor substitute for reasoning"
?
And there is the whole selection of "choice phraseology" that our English professor from Goa, Augusto Pinto, has kindly provided, starting with obnubliating.:=))
Regards, GL
?
?
----------- CORNEL DACOSTA
?
I was not attacking the person but the systemic mess that Goanet is in regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects.

?
------------- Bosco - Goanet Volunteer

To paraphrase an infamous clich, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose
message was rejected for posting on Goanet.? There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a?couple 'experts' in this field.
?
The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet
Rules.??
Mervyn Lobo
2008-10-05 00:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and
provoke fellow Goanetters??
Bosco,
I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn.
I think that life is to short to go around?antagonizing?people. I?certainly
do not want to be?a provoker.?Maybe in trying to amuse, I have crossed the
line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens.
Post by Bosco - Goanet Volunteer
Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing
provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely
what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing
to do is blame the moderators; don't fall for that. Be a part of the solution
of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the
community at large.
I always reply in private to an exceptional post.
The problem is that when I tell a poster that his language is unacceptable, the reply
I get is in worse language. Prime example is our photographer friend. And may I add
that I was not the only person to experience foul?language from him. Several other
Goanetter's have posted what they have experienced when they?told him privately
what they felt about his language.?


There?are?serial/repeat offenders here. All you have to?do is tell them to clean up
their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to
consume most of?the moderators?time.


Mervyn3.0


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